Reinami
Reinami
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@Archol123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3280936#Comment_3280936
That's exactly why large maps where you can see the killer coming anytime are a huge problem... The prerunning is just ridiculous... Just out of curiosity... During the weapon whipe animation... The killer still moves a little... Did you find numbers on how fast he is during that? I think it is neglectable for that example... But I'm just curious ^^
in any case, my point is that this is the problem with the game. If survivors do the bare minimum, that shows literally 0 skill. They and the rest of their team "just does gens" then they will still be more efficient than the killer can be. This is ridiculous. The survivors should only be able to win if they can outplay the killer.
But this also isn't all on the survivors, like, look at how many killers there are that promote this playstyle, they just release the knight, whose power is "plop them down at a loop" and now you can't run that loop, and must hold shift + w to the next one. This is why killers like blight and wesker are so well designed because their power has counterplay in loops, but also opportunities to do some wild stuff like blight z-flick or the fact that wesker's power has built-in slowdown.
The problem is that most killers are not this. Like, how is trapper ever supposed to compete in this world, or clown. There are simply too many safe pallets that each buy 15 seconds extra on that 55.11 seconds. This is why the top tier strat is to just run to a safe pallet, immediately drop it, then run to the next one. If the killer isn't nurse they will lose. Even spirit will have a hard time against that. Blight still has to actually run tiles like normal killers in many cases as well.
And the fundamental problem is that the game has SWF kills squads, and solo queue, and matches them with the same killers. This needs to be addressed more than anything else before they do anything.
I am an advocate for making 2 queues, 1 solo queue only, and 1 SWF only, and those queues have actual different rules in place that change the game. Maybe in the solo queue one, there are more pallets, or the gens are a little faster. Maybe in the SWF one, the gens take longer, or there are less pallets, or the survivors just flat out run slower, or the killer runs faster, or they have to do 6 gens instead of 5. There are tons of things they could do for this. Then simply make the SWF queue give the killers 2x bloodpoints.
Or hell, make a WIN for a killer be "they got a single kill" then make camping and tunneling basically impossible. And balance the game around that idea.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3280936#Comment_3280936
That's exactly why large maps where you can see the killer coming anytime are a huge problem... The prerunning is just ridiculous... Just out of curiosity... During the weapon whipe animation... The killer still moves a little... Did you find numbers on how fast he is during that? I think it is neglectable for that example... But I'm just curious ^^
Last time i ran this math i couldn't find it, but from experience i know it can't be much more than a 1 m/s. At most this would account for an extra 2-3 seconds saved.
EDIT: found it, its 0.46 m/s so they would be able to move 1.215 meters during this time. Saving 2 seconds of time off that total.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3280909#Comment_3280909
"And nurse is the only killer who stands a chance at competing against that, so until THAT is fixed, she should not be "nerfed" The idea here though, is this rework allows for easier numbers tweaks without completely destroying her, or making her overpowered."
Or Spirit, Blight, Artist, Plague, Pyramid Head and maybe even Wesker... It is a bit overdramatic dude...
Let's do some math here:
Some data:
Survivor movement speed: 4.0 m/s
Survivor post hit movement speed duration: 1.8 seconds
Survivor post hit movement speed: 6.0 m/s
Killer movement speed: 4.6 m/s
Killer movement speed while carrying survivor: 3.68 m/s
Killer Terror Radius: 32 meters
Killer hit cooldown: 2.7 seconds
Killer pick up speed: 3 seconds
Killer hook speed: 1.5 seconds
Generator repair speeds: 90 seconds
Average distance to hook: 12 meters
Average human response time: 273 ms (https://humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime)
Average map size: 9850 square meters (~99.25x99.25 meters for a square)
So, let's assume killers and survivors all spawn at opposite ends of the map. The survivors spend the first 20 seconds looking for a generator and the killer spends the first 20 seconds running to the opposite end of the map. With a killer having a 32 meter terror radius, and taking into account movement speeds and human reaction time. if we take the human reaction time and 6x it to account for figuring out the direction the killer is coming from and making sure you can run the opposite direction, the survivor will spot the killer in 1638 ms. To make math simpler let's round it up to 2 second. during this time the killer gets 4.6 meters closer. So now the killer is 22.8 meters away. During this time the survivor runs in the exact opposite direction of the killer.
Remember, no powers, no pallets, no windows, just a straight line. In order for the killer to catch up to the 5 meters (lunge is 6 meters but taking into account human reactions and lag and spinning and such, we say 5) required for lunge distance the killer needs to move 17.8 meters to close the gap. The difference in movement speed between them is .6, this means the killer closes the 17.8 meter gap in 29.66 seconds. The killer then lands a hit.
The survivor then runs in a straight line and the killer is unable to move much for 2.7 seconds. During 1.8 of those seconds the survivor is moving at 6 m/s and for 4 m/s for .9 seconds. This means the survivor gets 14.4 meters way. The killer now has to close a gap of 9 meters for a lunge. It takes the killer 15 seconds to catch up to the survivor and land another hit.
The killer now picks the survivor up taking 5.7 seconds (3 seconds for picking up, and 2.7 seconds for attack cooldown), and they walk to the nearest hook about 12 meters away. This takes 3.25 seconds, the hooking action takes 1.5 seconds.
The time to find this survivor, hit them once, catch up, hit them again, pick them up walk to a hook and hook them took: 29.66 + 15 + 5.7 + 3.25 + 1.5 = 55.11 seconds. This would mean the killer would likely lose 2 gens in the first chase. (just barely reaching the 3rd survivor before it finishes).
Notes:
I know people will say "but powers exist", yes, yes they do, but i eliminated as many variables as possible, we are just talking about running in straight lines right now. I know people will say, "but don't focus that survivor down, change targets and go back to patrolling gens". This is also true, but if the killer does this, the survivor being chased will start to heal (medkit/healing meta) and only takes 16 seconds to do so, while it takes the killer 29 seconds to land the first hit. This means that that survivor can be back on a gen by the time the killer lands their next hit.
This means a healthy survivor takes 55.11 seconds of a killer's time away at minimum if they just "hold w" during this time. And you want us to do this 12 times? Lets just do this 8 times. Gens take a total of 90 * 5 seconds or 450 total seconds of time, if you factor in running to them, lets say 550 seconds. So for 8 hooks:
1st hook = 55.1 * 3 survivors on gens = 165.33
2nd hook = 55.1 * 1 survivor on gens (1 survivor hooked, 1 survivor saving and healing, 1 survivor being chased)
3rd hook = 55.1 * 1 survivor on gens (1 survivor hooked, 1 survivor saving and healing, 1 survivor being chased)
4th hook = 55.1 * 1 survivor on gens (1 survivor hooked, 1 survivor saving and healing, 1 survivor being chased)
5th hook = 55.1 * 1 survivor on gens (1 survivor hooked, 1 survivor saving and healing, 1 survivor being chased)
6th hook = 55.1 * 1 survivor on gens (1 survivor hooked, 1 survivor saving and healing, 1 survivor being chased)
7th hook = 55.1 * 1 survivor on gens (1 survivor hooked, 1 survivor saving and healing, 1 survivor being chased)
8th hook = 55.1 * 1 survivor on gens (1 survivor hooked, 1 survivor saving and healing, 1 survivor being chased)
This is 551 seconds, which we said 550 seconds to complete all gens, after this the killer has killed a single person. This is why the balance of the game is so ridiculous. Because top tier survivors can make that 55.1 seconds lasts a lifetime when they all actually work on the gens.
This is why killers camp and tunnel, because it's the only way to slow the game down in a meaningful way. If you aren't playing nurse, you can't compete with this.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3280909#Comment_3280909
"And nurse is the only killer who stands a chance at competing against that, so until THAT is fixed, she should not be "nerfed" The idea here though, is this rework allows for easier numbers tweaks without completely destroying her, or making her overpowered."
Or Spirit, Blight, Artist, Plague, Pyramid Head and maybe even Wesker... It is a bit overdramatic dude...
Artist cannot, plague cannot, pyramid head cannot, wesker cannot, blight probably cannot, spirit can with god tier addons only.
Try playing at that level before assuming.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3280909#Comment_3280909
I mean it is basically as slow as she currently is when only one blinking... 4.2325 m/s to be exact... And since line of sight cannot get broken anymore you can just follow until you are in blink range... Which is boring as hell... And since your blink is only 10 m long you will basically guarantee a hit at this distance... The only good thing about it is the lullaby/TR but then again every other exposed perk would still work...
It just turns her into a boring medium/low range anti loop killer like the other 10...
Explain to me how dragon's grip is a problem on her.
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@FeelsBadMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3279792#Comment_3279792
LMAO so your "nerf" as Nurse main is to buff the ######### out of her - I dying 😂
I don't think you understand how slow 4.2 still is and HALVING the range of her blinks makes them much much weaker. Her first blink is 20 meters currently, and the second is 12. A Killer's LUNGE range is only 6 meters. So this would basically require you to be much more accurate with your blinks. The 4.2 is because she should not be slower than a survivor, maybe 4.0 is better so she still has to blink to get you.
Now, because she is so slow, her map control will become garbage, so give her a special blink on a cooldown. I forgot to also mention that this global blink should have a fatigue that is twice as long, and she can't attack out of it, making it exclusively used for mobility.
Lastly, the goal is not to nerf her, the goal is to rework her. There is a difference there. Survivors like this still exist:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtENJZ_z0zw&t=1sAnd nurse is the only killer who stands a chance at competing against that, so until THAT is fixed, she should not be "nerfed" The idea here though, is this rework allows for easier numbers tweaks without completely destroying her, or making her overpowered.
Talk to me after you have logged 2k hours on and against nurse, and think the entire thing through.
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@dspaceman20 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3279792#Comment_3279792
But nurse could still get value out of other perks that give exposed. I don't think it fixes the problem. If your worried perks like jolt and sloppy won't be effective ok her then why not just buff those perks to work on special attacks too? Wouldn't most other killers get benefits from it ?
But other perks that give exposed aren't a problem. NOED is not a problem on her (or in general) more than it is any other killer. Devour hope is not a problem on her any more than any other killer. Dragon's grip is OP on her? What about haunted ground?
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@Archol123 said:
Why would you even engage in a conversation when you just ignore basically everything the other person writes dude? Save your time and talk to a mirror if you don't want a disagreeing statement...
Because i started by saying: "here is my opinion, and you can't say X because here is the refutation of that" then you immediate say: "But X" without refuting anything i said. Then you ignore my previous point because you are clearly showing your survivor bias. You think that survivors should be stronger, that is fine, but that is clearly what you think, because you can hold only 1 of 2 possible views:
- This game should be balanced around the highest level of play, which means survivors as a whole need massive nerfs, or killers need massive buffs, and nurse needs nerfs.
- This game should be balanced around the largest group (the average) of players, which means that survivors are fine, and nurse needs buffs.
You cannot mix the 2, they are mutually exclusive. If you want to mix the 2, then you are either biased for killers or survivors, and you are clearly biased toward survivors. Since you aren't willing to address that, you are discussing this from a disingenuous point of view. Thus there is no point in continuing.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3279750#Comment_3279750
This example is just so terrible... You have variety of players of different skill in this game... It is not comparable to such a trash offering dude... If you buff something with the intention of making it more viable against average players it might be oppressive vs good or bad players... The question is what group are you balancing for? They should balance for the biggest group of players and those are players of average skill... And when considering that basically any killer is viable because those players are just not that good. On the other hand your offering is just terrible design regardless of skill and not impacted by it whatsoever... So maybe go find a different hypothetical example of bad balanced things...
You have god nurses, Blights and Spirits on the one side and comp survivor squads on the other side... Both are equally rare and you will really not see them often... But what are you gonna do about that? There is no way to balance it for everyone... A comp nurse can loose against a comp 4 mansquad and most killers just have it harder... To bring back the comp tierlist... We can assume that A Tier killers could also make it, but have it harder and everything below is probably rather unreasonable... It is just not possible to make every killer equally viable on every skill level... And honestly I don't even want that... Imagine a killer as easy to play/master as legion being able to compete against the best survivor players in the world with a reasonable chance to win... You would not even need to be close as good as those guys to master legion, how would that be fair?
"And if you say: "But those are super rare, not every team is like that" you can basically leave the conversation now, because that is not an excuse for game balance to be like this. Just because something is rare, doesn't mean it is balanced."
Once again sure, but you cannot have it all... You cannot have an equally balanced game at all levels. And therefore I'd rather have it balanced for the majority of players.
"Name me any killer that isn't nurse or spirit (and MAYBE blight) that can compete against this:"
Artist, Twins, Plague and Pyramid Head are played in comp so I guess them as well? I don't really understand what you mean dude xD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YfXTWsgkxI
The killer players are comp players and two of the survivors from your video above are also competing in this as survivers: Hens333 and Laser the other two are also really good survivor players. Otzdarva also says at the beginning of the video that those two killers are "very common in tournaments these days"... So I guess that answers your question fairly well...
I knew it, you immediate jump to the "its rare" every single time. I'm not gonna engage in a conversation with you if you are going to be so disingenuous. But i'll leave you with this.
If they balance around the "average" player. Where are my nurse buffs then?
You don't get to play it both ways. Nurse is BY FAR the worst killer in the game, so based on this they need to buff:
- Nurse
- Trickster
- Billy
- Demo
- Doctor
- Trapper
And nerf:
- Cenobite
- Onroyo
- Wesker
- Freddy
- Pig
- Plague
- Dredge
I'll be waiting for more pig nerfs then.
And if your arugment is bUt NuRsE hAs A 50% KiLl RaTe!!!!
Then i'll be waiting for them to nerf literally every killer.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
- Chain blinks become special attacks. I think it’s ok for the first blink to remain basic though. Weakens Exposed (and Starstruck in particular) but doesn’t completely eliminate perk variety. They shouldn’t nerf Starstruck just to address Nurse; Exposed as a whole is too good on her and Starstruck isn’t overpowered on any other killer.
- Change almost all of her addons. Her best addons are too strong but almost everything else is just bad. Her addons shouldn’t be strong, but she doesn’t need like 3 different addons that are debuffs. Recharge is too strong, range and 3-blink shouldn’t exist at all. I would be okay with even reducing the base recharge slightly (0.15-0.2 seconds per blink) provided that yellow recharge is removed and green recharge is nerfed, because admittedly it does feel quite slow without recharge addons, but you shouldn’t be able to recharge 2 blinks in 4 seconds. It doesn’t punish mistakes enough.
- This might be an unpopular opinion, but I don’t think she should be able to see auras of survivors while blinking. The two most important counters to Nurse are breaking LOS and keeping distance from her as much as possible. Aura reading perks heavily reduce LOS counterplay and the survivor typically can’t predict that until it’s too late, unless they have something that gives it away (eg. Object or Distortion). It’s okay before she uses her power, but it should stop when she’s ready to go for a blink.
- Stuns reset blink charges (and they don’t start recharging until the stun ends). Pallet stuns are rare against Nurse and aren’t rewarding enough, and it would make DS give the survivor more of a fighting chance against her. Right now DS is pretty useless against a good Nurse.
- This is the incorrect way to fix this problem. The ONLY perk on her that is a problem is starstruck. Is Jolt? Sloppy? No. The correct fix to this, is to give her a tiny terror radius, but then give her a 40 meter lullaby.
- They already nerfed range addons and this is actually incorrect. At this point most of her addons are bad, or they make her less punishing or are flat out memes, the addons are not a problem.
- This just makes her harder to play, but doesn't actually "nerf her" top tier nurses will still use the information to gauge where the survivor is and blink right on top of them.
- Sure, why not.
As a nurse main, the proper way to "fix" her is to:
- Increase her movement speed to 4.2
- Halve the range of her blinks and make them charge up faster (so you get the same time/distance ratio as now, just the max range is half what it is now)
- Give her a secondary ability that lets her charge a blink on a 60 second cooldown. This blink targets like the cenobite chain and is global (can blink anywhere on the map)
- Give her a tiny terror radius of 8 meters, and give her a 40 meter lullaby.
This allows her to keep her chasing power strong, while weakening her map control but putting it on a cooldown. The way to make nurse more interesting is to make her blinks less powerful, but more frequent, so there is more opportunity for both the survivor and the killer to outplay each other.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/356314/you-literally-cant-play-knight-at-high-mmr
First of all there is no high mmr, since above the soft cap everybody is considered to be at that, then again when you have a longer queue the range of mmr that gets matched with you increases and after x amount of time you will get a game regardless of how balanced it is to prevent too long queue times...
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3278610#Comment_3278610
Wesker was very well designed strong killer most people consider to be A tier... Hens did a showcase with him and some of his comp friends and the Wesker did decent , sure not as strong as Nurse, Spirit or Blight but still really good.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3278874#Comment_3278874
Not really dude, I like going against Nurse, Blight, Huntress, Wesker for example... But I do not think I should be able to loop a killer for that long unless he is far worse than me...
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3278879#Comment_3278879
Especially since high mmr doesn't even exist in the way people think it does xD
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3278891#Comment_3278891
First once again there is no high MMR... But then so we actually have something we can work with ... The following picture is a comp tierlist from Knightlight... you can get it from his twitch with !tierlist at https://www.twitch.tv/knightlight He is a comp player currently playing for Team Eternal, the best comp team at the moment:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/UVA5CDD16QJA/image.png
According to that I guess we could say that at least A tier is still somewhat viable... And that is comp... Which is completely different from what you imagine high mmr is... Because of that source I would think that this is quite accurate for a comp setting... So Wesker is the 7th best killer in the game... But yeah sure, BHVR does not make killers that are good in "HiGh MmR" anymore...
Name me any killer that isn't nurse or spirit (and MAYBE blight) that can compete against this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtENJZ_z0zw&t=1sAnd if you say: "But those are super rare, not every team is like that" you can basically leave the conversation now, because that is not an excuse for game balance to be like this. Just because something is rare, doesn't mean it is balanced.
We could create a hypothetical scenario that a killer offering exists that:
- Permanently gives the killer 300% movement speed
- Permanently reveals the aura of all survivors
- Permanently exposes all survivors.
- Allows all survivors to immediately be mori'd
And this offering appears with a 0.1% chance in the bloodweb, making it so you'd see this offering in 1 out of every 1000 games. This offering would not be fair or balanced just because its "rare"
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3276781#Comment_3276781
Ive seen people defend Eruption like their lives depend on it, Ive even been cussed out in my Twitter DMs and cyberstalked by someone over it. "Just gen off the generator, normally only one or two survivors get hit by it a match, it's not that good"... 95.6% usage rate.
Its "fine" in the sense that, just like everything else in this game, against top tier SWF squads, the perk is pretty weak. Against solo queue, it is really strong. Until they fix that fundamental problem with the game, they shouldn't be buffing or nerfing things.
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You do the gens, seriously. The math behind it basically makes tunneling a definite loss for the killer if the survivors just do gens. Here is the math behind it.
Here are some facts around what we would call an "average killer":
Killer movement speed: 4.6 m/s
Killer lunge range: 6 meters
Killer attack cooldown: 2.7 seconds
Killer terror radius: 32 meters
Survivor movement speed: 4.0 m/s
Survivor speed boost movement speed: 6.6 m/s
Survivor speed boost duration: 1.8 seconds
This means that if a survivor hears the terror radius, and reacts within 3 seconds, the killer will be 18.2 meters away. The killer needs to get within 6 meters, let's say 5 meters for reaction time/lag compensation. So they need to close a distance of 18.2 - 5 = 13.2 meters. The killer gains 0.6 meters of distance per second on the survivor (4.6 - 4.0) this takes 22 seconds for them to land a hit. Now the killer cooldown is 2.7 seconds, during that time for 1.8 seconds the survivor moves at 6.6 m/s and for 0.9 seconds they move at 4.0 m/s. This means they gain 15.48 meters of distance. Killer needs to close the gap to 10.48. This takes 18 seconds. They land the hit. 2.7 seconds pass, they pick up the survivor, this takes 3 seconds, they walk to a hook, this takes ~7 seconds, they hook the survivor, this takes 1.5 seconds.
In total, the survivor did nothing but hold w. This total time spent was 22 + 18 + 2.7 + 3 + 7 + 1.5 = 54.2 seconds. This means that simply holding w, a healthy survivor can waste at MINIMUM 54.2 seconds of a killer's time. And an unhealthy survivor can waste 32.2 seconds of a killer's time. Assuming the killer is hard tunneling. You'll generally get 2 gens done while the killer chases a 3rd while the 4th is hooked. Then one of the other ones, goes for an unhook, and the killer hard tunnels that person. If everyone focuses a gen, it they should be able to get ~1 gen total of progress between them all.
Now remember, this is not using perks, not using pallets, using nothing. Now imagine that the survivor just predrops every safe pallet. Each pallet break, buy the survivor, at WORST 10 seconds of time. There are generally around 15 pallets a map. That is 150 seconds of time wasted. If the killer is hard tunneling as in, ignoring every other survivor, even if you only use half the pallets on the map, you'll waste. 54.2 + 32.2 + 32.2 + 70 (7 pallets) = 188.6 seconds. Generally you'll have 2 full survivors working on gens, and a 3rd partially on gens. This should easily get you all 5 gens done and escape, A gen is 90 seconds 188 is 2 full gens per survivor. Which even if you have a teammate that does nothing else, and only 2 survivors working on gens, that's 4 gens. You should easily be able to win that game.
Now if they are nurse or something, so the pallets aren't useful, that is a different problem.
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@killer998 said:
He's honestly so bad it's ridiculous. He has to be one of the most survivor friendly killers they've ever released. I'm not saying that in a "Devs are survivor sided" way, I'm talking about his actual design itself can't contest the top level survivors. Information is power in DBD and he gains f all information but gives tons.
His power is not only awful, it's painful. You can't see the survivors but they can see you making the path, they can hear you making a path. The guards take too long to activate. since they can also hear and see you making a path on top of their activation the survivors are gone by the time you're done setting it up holding forward. They're slow af, they're dumb af. They get stuck all the time. They can see the guards auras as they're patrolling and the Path the guards are patrolling.
It's harder to do but they can also take the banner and get a speed boost and endurance.
The power is also clunky af. There's so many points where you're not allowed to use it. Critical moments like windows or pallets. He has to step back. It takes a hot second to start channeling it and it feels like the orbs a drop-down than a spawn in with the camera angle. You can get stuck on things when you're trying make a path and on controller at least let me tell you, it can be f'ing hard to get out of being stuck in a wall or object. It's like spirit phase, but he's drunk and has all the nerfs spirit mains have nightmares about at the same time.
He gets fat shamed at loops at times or in chase he can't fit through things. He's loud af as he stomps around.
He feels rushed for the Christmas sales and he's just obscenely weak overall. At the higher levels of play where swfs rule and survivors sweat non stop he literally gets nothing but hardcore stomped outside of camping. He's a good camper but that's it and that only goes to show how yet again, bad he is.
The only place he can be decent is at the lower ranks of play where most of the player base is. That can be the only place he can thrive. Where no one has a clue what's happening and are learning the game.
He CANNOT contest the top level of play in his current state. You might get the one game here or there if you're really lucky or the survs F up big time. But he genuinely can't compete with them.
You literally can't play:
- Trapper
- Wraith
- Hillbilly
- myers
- Doctor
- Huntress
- Bubba
- Freddy
- Pig
- Clown
- Legion
- Plague
- Ghostface
- Demogorgon
- Oni
- Deathslinger
- Pyramid Head
- Trickster
- Nemesis
- Cenobite
- Artist
- Onroyo
- Dredge
- Wesker
- knight
at high MMR.
Fix that for you.
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@Terion said:
I know this title seems like "one of those" but my intention is actually to gather info what anyone really thinks. One siders will ofc say "yes" or "vice versa" but my interest is the ones that play both sides, now i cant control that people can state being not biased towards one side so we have to go with a rough measurement here.
thats why i dont make a poll out of it. It will turn out 50/50 anyway so im giving the option to reason your answer and share your thoughts, maybe this thread will even proof me wrong. I would perfer that tbh.
But knight makes me really question things, his power is ridicilously easy outplayable. yes he CAN win. Like any killer CAN win. But it just feels so much work and pressure on yourself, as if you are an M1 without special abillity because as to what ive seen myself and read from others experience, his guards are well... a joke.
and i dont believe it was intended to have another campy killer, not when you read the descriptions of all 3.
there are other things that make me question it; looking at DH and nurse but the 6.0.1 imho is a counter argument. So i dont jump on this only because of knight. I just find some... decisions very weird. also the whole UB basekit/mori system rework while yes not being sure to release at all, the whole idea of it after the 6.0.1 seems to me like a complete diffrent direction, and this being definitly a slap to both sides.
lets have a serious and none heated convo for once all though it actively is themed around our great polarization we have in this gaming community right here.
And if a dev/mod happens to stumble uppon this post im very interested in officcial answer over this. Im sure im not the first one asking something like this.
Yes, but not directly.
if you ever watch any of the devs play the game, i think a few stream on twitch sometimes, they are very very bad at the game. And the reality of the game balance is. At the lower levels of play, killer is overpowered, and at the highest level of play, survivors are overpowered. This is simply due to the nature of the game being a 1v4 asymmetrical game. The 4 players need to be strong when playing together as a team, and weak when they aren't. And the reality is, weaker players don't know what to do, and the game is quite hard for new players. When i first started i thought killers were OP, but that quickly changed once i realized how to actually play the game.
Most of the devs are that, i doubt any of the devs play killer at the level of otz, or survivor on the level ayrun.
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@AbsolutGrndZer0 said:
The very nature of programming is that it's complicated. VERY complicated. When you make a change on line 12,456,774,778,999 it can have an effect on line 22,565,335,666 which have nothing to do with each other and why did this change affect... doesn't matter it did. So then you have to scour the code and figure out that the reason is because it had an effect on line 2,884 which had an effect on line 2,566,335,555,665 which affected line 33,556,444 and that is how 12,456,774,778,999 affected 22,565,335,666. But then the fix for that affects line 3,455,377 and here we go again...
A lot of gamers love to insult developers with the term "spaghetti code" but, you might as well order angel hair pasta at Olive Garden then send it back because it's 'spaghetti pasta."
So please, understand that ALL code is like that, and so using it as insult just shows that you have no idea what you are talking about.
I am a software engineer professionally and have been for nearly 10 years.
It's not that hard. They have spaghetti code.
But seriously. Programming does not work like that. Things don't have impact on other things unless they are directly tied to it. For example, this is my speculation as to why they "nerfed" blast mine by making it so it doesn't return to you if it wasn't broken by the killer, when they released wiretap.
it is obviously because wiretap and blast mine used the same logic and code to "put something" on the generator. Blast mine worked entirely by being "kicked" by the killer whereas wiretap was cancelled by a killer kicking it, but had an additionally effect. The reality is though, they basically refactored blast mine to be generic so they could make other perks like wiretap work, but then realized that wiretap would be OP if they gave it back to the survivor if the killer didn't kick the gen, so took it away. Then didn't realize they "nerfed" blast mine in the process. And because they take forever to do anything, here we are with a nerfed blast mine, even though it was already underpowered to begin with.
When, in reality, it would be really simple to add logic to the "generic" version to add a flag that is like "returnsOnCooldown" to check if the thing is still on the gen when the cooldown is up, and if it is, it returns it to the survivor. Then just have wiretap set that flag to false, and blastmine set it to true. Or, if they speculate that they wouldn't want that behavior on any other perk, they add the check specifically into blast mine's code. This should be a simple task, that should literally take an engineer maybe 20 minutes to implement and write tests for it. But they don't. Why? The only reason that they wouldn't is because either:
A) They think it isn't that important for blast mine (which shows they know very little about their own game)
B) It is actually extremely difficult to do this (spaghetti code)
C) They literally don't know that this problem exists (which shows a massive problem with the company as a whole)
I would suspect it is A or B.
This is just this one problem though. The reality is there are tons of problems with this game that could easily be fixed with simple number tweaks, yet they take ages to do them. Months if not years. For example, the solo queue system for survivors to get icons that show what they are doing. Such a system is extremely simple to implement. And shouldn't take more than a few weeks for a single engineer. The logic for it is extremely simple. Check what action the survivor is doing, then set a flag, then based on that flag, an icon appears for other survivors. Why is that so hard to do and taking a year at this point? They say because they are doing other things. But like, WHAT are they doing? Rarely anything changes from patch to patch outside of a handful of perk changes every few months along with a new killer and survivor. Every 2-3 years they do a big sweeping change, and that's about it.
The only explanation for this is that it is far more difficult for them to do these things than it should be.
If i were them, i would be tweaking things constantly, either switch their patches from being every what, 2 months? to every 2 weeks, and change a few things every time, or during these 2 month patches, they should be making changes to dozens of perks at time. I mean, really think about it, how many VIABLE perks are there for both sides? Maybe a dozen? Out of what, hundreds?
My point is, what on earth are they doing with all of this time they have?
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3276858#Comment_3276858
Old MoM lasted a couple weeks.
CoH is almost okay now.
Why do people have such trouble with the concept of BAD THINGS ARE BAD NO MATTER WHOSE SIDE THEY ARE BAD FOR
Because it's all connected to the same root problem that everyone knows they won't fix.
The reality is, against top tier SWF kill squads, Eruption is pretty underpowered. Against solo queue, it is overpowered, just like so many other things in this game. Nerfing or buffing anything is pointless until they fix this fundamental flaw with the game.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3276226#Comment_3276226
that makes banner a 100% endurance+haste effect every time. that is like old freddy that cannot hit the survivor. that would be worse then current knight.
Also @not_requested49
You missed the part right above that, where i said they massively buff the guards to actually be a threat. So instead of his power being a boring: "go to a loop, plop it down, then the survivor runs away from the loop" gameplay. It at least is somewhat interesting because his "power" is that he can chase 2 people at once. It was one of my suggested fixes to the knight to make him more interesting.
Alternatively, they can do:
Do away with the orb thing entirely and make them work on command. You tap your ability button at a thing to summon a guard to do a thing. You can basically do this:
- If you are highlighting a survivor, the guard chases that survivor.
- If you are highlighting a gen/wall/pallet, the guard breaks that thing (make the gen kicking at least apply the 2.5%, maybe consider perks too if its the carnifex)
- If you hold the button, it creates a circle zone, when you let go, the guard patrols that circle zone, and works like they do now.
- If you tap the button, the guard stands there, and works like they do now.
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@not_requested49 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3275109#Comment_3275109
There already isn't collision while someone isn't being hunted, and the hunt does end whenever the survivor is injured by the knight or the guard
Yes, that's why i said "make it so that not only do you have no collision with the survivor, but you also can't hit them"
So in addition to having no collision, you can't actually damage them.
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@HectorBrando said:
That has to be unintended interaction between the perk and his power, they should killswitch either Knight or MYC.
They aren't going to killswitch the new killer they just released, and the bug is affecting more than MYC, it's also affecting devour hope.
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@Flopiyutiop said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3273597#Comment_3273597
They'll never do 2. because it's way to much work to get there from where we are now.
Giving better individual chase potential should be the way to go. Make guards faster and last longer so that they can hit survs or force them to throw palets.
Perhaps if they made the guards an actual threat, chase longer, and make it so you can't just "hold w" but they can be "killed" by dropping a pallet on them, basically, they have to actually be looped, give them better AI. Make the counter for them to be that you have to basically deal with getting chased by a "second killer", drop a pallet to kill them, or grab the flag. But then, make it so that no only do you have no collision with the survivor, but you also can't hit the survivor while they are being chased. Make it so he basically is 2 killers at once. The only downside to that, is that it makes him basically a killer with an "AI" power. But at least it is different and better than what we have now.
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@Grigerbest said:
I played a bunch of games with a new killer yesterday to see how the buffs affected his perfomance after a PTB...
So I played him predictively putting a guards a little further a loops they were heading and was zoning them a little bit left or right (put a guard on a left side, yourself move to the right and on right from left as well)... 13 matches maybe, against a pretty good survivors (Looking for their prestiges 80-100, looping and holding shift+W against this power)
I haven't lost a single match with this killer yet. Yes, he doesn't feel really fast with getting a down, but he's consistent as heck with it.
They were holding shift+W, they tried to ignore the summons by going through them, but here's the thing, even if they can see a green orb (they can see where I'll spond a guard), I can cut them off by putting a guard further and a little to the side (zone them), and catch them myself by going on a opposite side.
Whenever the time they hold shift+W, I'm almost there to hit them myself and if they stop at the loop, it's a guarranted hit.
Yesterday after 3-4 matches I understood that it's a hardly zoning "sandwich" killer. He's not insanely strong coz all these chases takes time (1 full guard haunt) to hit if they holding W, but it's pretty much doable.
Using his addons on detection radius and haunt time (brown and yellow), is a must have to me. Otherwise it's really hard to pull off effectively.
I wonder how you guys playing him... (Considering the ammount of people saying he's bad)
I thought that as well, I thought he's not going to work, now I think I was insanely wrong. After a buffs and AI fix, I think I finally understand how he must be played, and it's deffinitely not by tapping his ability at loops.
@[Deleted User] said:
I've played a bit like that. Survivors figure out pretty quickly that you don't have to run away from the orb if it's used for zoning like that. You can straight up run towards it and the guards will be slower than you or the killer. By the time the Knight catches back up to you to use the guard for zoning, the patrol is over. I did this twice to a Knight on Dead Dawg. Didn't run away from the orb. I ran *towards* it, proc'd the hunt, and then kite'd the guard away from the Knight because the guard is hilariously slow
This,
Basically, if you try to use the power as intended, the guard is not a threat, and you can just outrun it. For example, the assassin chases you at 110% movement speed, this is 4.4 meters per second, and chases you for 12 seconds. In that 12 seconds, if the survivor holds W, the assassin will gain 0.4 meters per second of distance, this amounts to 4.8 meters of distance over the 12 seconds. A killer's lunge range is 6 meters. There is no way the guard will ever do anything it's own. So you just outrun it, and the amount of time you spent setting the guard means you are too far away to do anything.
Now think about the other 2 guards that move at 4.1 meters per second, that is only 1.2 meters of distance gained during their entire duration.
The only way to play the knight, is to go to a loop, plop your guard down instantly, then try to force the survivor into the guard, then pincer them with the guard and yourself to guarantee a hit. If they run away while doing that, you have to hope there is no connected tile, and/or bruteforce a smaller dead zone.
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@ad19970 said:
In my opinion the Knight needs 2 key changes:
- After he activates his power, he can not deactivate it for 1,5 seconds or so. This would weaken his loop trapping playstyle a lot, because survivors would have a lot of time to just run away.
- Survivors can no longer see the green orb while the Knight is creating a patrol path. This is the biggest issue with Knight right now in my opinion. The fact that survivors can see where you are creating your path makes it way too easy for them to just run away from that path.
He might need a few additional buffs as well, hard to say. But in my opinion these are the two main changes he needs.
This doesn't solve the problem, because he also heavily telegraphs that he is using his power, so during that 1.5 seconds, the survivor just holds w in the opposite direction to the next loop. The problem is they need to do one of 2 things.
1.
The guards need to actually be a threat and able to catch a survivor on their own, even the assassin, the survivor just outruns them for the duration because the assassin only move at 110% movement speed and chase for 12 seconds. The others are even slower at 102.5% People never think what that actually means when looking at movement, they just thing "oh a 110 killer like huntress"
What this means is, if for the 12 seconds, the survivor just holds "w", the assassin will gain 0.4 meters of distance on the survivor per second, which over the course of 12 seconds, is 4.8 meters of distance. A killer lunge range ins 6 meters. This is ridiculous. The guards will never catch the survivor. This means that all you have to do is hold w to run away even from the one that is supposedly the good one at chasing.
This is fundamentally the problem, because the only good way to use his power, is to go to a loop and "#########" out the guard, and hope the survivor doesn't have a connected tile to run to. They need to encourage the gameplay that actually makes the guards a threat so that survivors don't hold w, while discouraging the quick use at a loop.
OR
2.
Do away with the orb thing entirely and make them work on command. You tap your ability button at a thing to summon a guard to do a thing. You can basically do this:
- If you are highlighting a survivor, the guard chases that survivor.
- If you are highlighting a gen/wall/pallet, the guard breaks that thing (make the gen kicking at least apply the 2.5%, maybe consider perks too if its the carnifex)
- If you hold the button, it creates a circle zone, when you let go, the guard patrols that circle zone, and works like they do now.
- If you tap the button, the guard stands there, and works like they do now.
This would allow the knight to do multiple things at once, the power can remain "weak" by itself and be used either as anti loop to strengthen it. Or it can be used as map control, by sending a guard somewhere else to delay the survivors while you do something else.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3272465#Comment_3272465
YEah but in many cases you just get an M1 against the survivor. Because they are forced to run away from the loop
Meanwhile, it took you 30+ seconds to land that hit, then another 30+ to do it again, then another 15 to hook them, so by the time you down them you lose 3 gens.
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@Mooks said:
Not everyone buys new killers right away nor does everyone want to play them solely. After a few hours that’s not really a good basis to make assumptions based on how often you encounter them (besides I just played 3 surv matches and got knight twice..)
though… power is pretty much like Artist and no one expected him to be more popular, did they?
When you have 3k hours in the game, it is pretty easy to tell which killers are, by simply their design, bad. All it took was a few hours on PTB, and now a few hours on live to tell that it's all the same.
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@ad19970 said:
If you just use your power and immediately deactivate it at a loop, survivors have very little time to get to another loop. So in the end the map just dictates whether you'll get a hit or not if the survivor runs away from the loop.
But this killer is just the pinnacle of hold w. He just places his guards at loops and then chases the survivor, and in many cases, you will get a hit by doing so. It does also depend on the loop however.
It's a real shame that's the effective way of playing him, and not the intended way of creating longer paths for his guards to patrol, by predicting where the survivor is running to instead.
Even that doesn't work though, because by the time you catch up to them, if they just hold W, the guard goes away because they outrun it.
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@HugTheHag said:
It's been a few hours only.
Some people are probably getting used to his power in customs, and not everyone will buy the chapter. Plus there's a bloodrush, so people will want to play with killers they're comfortable to get lots of bloodpoints on.
I don't think we should jump to conclusions so early. =)
Na, the killer is definitely bad. He'll destroy terrible survivors but even decent survivors will just hold w and he does nothing.
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@jamally093 said:
No matter how many kills he has or many hooks he'll camp at the end of the match.
"At the end of the match"
So what exactly should the killer do when both gates are 99'd and the survivor is hooked. Run to a corner and face the wall?
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@TheSubstitute said:
Did you load the new map or the Game? They sound identical from your description.
That's because they are at this point.
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@Peanits said:
What you see when you use Dead Hard is different to what you see when other people use Dead Hard.
The short version: The game timestamps exactly when someone Dead Hards or hits a Survivor, then tells the server what they did. If the server gets conflicting messages ("I hit the survivor" and "I used Dead Hard"), it needs to figure out who was first. It uses the timestamps to figure out who was actually first.
The problem is: Any online game has latency. Because you're not physically next to the other person in the real world, it takes time for that info to reach the other person. On the other hand, you see what you're doing instantly.
So when you hit someone and it doesn't look like they used Dead Hard yet, they might have and that info just hasn't reached you yet. Meanwhile when you use it as a Survivor, you see the animation instantly, but you don't see that the Killer has already started swinging. When the server sees that, it checks which came first and resolves it as fairly as it can.
TLDR: Latency plays a role here, I wouldn't immediately assume they're cheating.
Except it becomes obvious when it happens multiple times a match, or if you just swing randomly in a spot that doesn't make sense and they suddenly dead hard. Its happening at a rate such that i nearly have 1 a game at this point.
The hackers of old that used crazy speedhacks and completed all 5 gens in 10 seconds are gone. Now we have the hackers of today, that do it so subtly that it takes having 2k hours to even notice that the survivor is moving 3% faster all the time with no perks to do it, or that they are just slightly further than they should be when you regain LoS around a corner. Or a killer that somehow always knows where you are despite having no aura or information perks.
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@versacefeng said:
This is only 3 killers? You make it seem like half the killer roster has elements in their power that benefit survivors.
There's definitely more TBH, OP is just bad at listing them.
- Wraith can be lightburned
- Nurse can be lightburned
- Hag flashlights
- Clown yellow bottles
- Plague never cleansing against her.
- Nemesis gives speed boost on first hit.
- Soon to be knight.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3269999#Comment_3269999
Yeah but they are so rare you will basically encounter them once every few hundred matches... So balancing around that would be kind of rough... And also if the top 5% mmr killers would encounter those really good players frequently there would be no way for the lower tier killers to still get even close to 50% killrate... So the most reasonable thing is to assume that even the really good killers don't encounter the really good survivors frequently.
Sounds good. So where are my nurse buffs then? The God tier nurses are so rare you will basically encounter them once every few hundred matches... So balancing around that would be kind of tough.
Better yet, let's stage a fun hypothetical. Imagine there were a killer offering that did the following:
- The killer permanently moves at 300% movement speed
- The survivors are permanently exposed.
- The auras of all survivors are permanently revealed to the killer.
- The time it takes to repair a generator is increased by 200%
Now, this offering has a 0.1% chance of appearing in the bloodweb. This means you would only see it 1 time out of every 1000 or so games (give or take) played.
is this offering balanced? Is it fair? Should it be nerfed?
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@Zephinism said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3266971#Comment_3266971
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/YLT6GOEBEODD/microsoftteams-image-2875-29.png
Top 5% mmr.
Completely unplayable. mhm.
Top 5% includes the megheads. Let's talk about the actual top MMR survivors:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtENJZ_z0zw&t=1s -
@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
Killer optimal gameplay:
- Drop your power on the loop
- Continue chasing
- Repeat
Survivors optimal gameplay:
- Shift W to a different loop
- If you see the big green light, go the other direction and Shift W to a different loop
- Repeat
They don't even have to loop, if the survivor just holds shift + w to a corner of the map, it'll take the killer 50ish seconds to down the survivor, pick them up, and hook them.
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@Piruluk said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3268559#Comment_3268559
But here is the thing, if one survivor isnt skilled then the game is lost for survivor team, because killer only has to rely on themselves, while survivors are a team. So if you balance around that top tier killer player vs top tier survivor team has about 50% winrate, that means all survivor has to be very good in order to stand a chance.
That's pretty much how the design of asymmetrical games works. A single person of the team of 4, must be definition be weaker than the 1 of the team of 1. Thus the team of 4 MUST play well as a team in order to win.
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@Piruluk said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3268568#Comment_3268568
Nurse has above 50% winrate even at all mmr stats.
I mean sure its isnt 60%, but still above 50%
The devs are obviously shooting for 60%. I can't say why, but it is pretty clear that is their goal.
But, let's say they are shooting for 50% +/- 5%. Then based on the data:
Let me know when the nerfs drop for:
- Pinhead
- SADAKO!
- Wesker
- Freddy
- PIG!
- Plague
- Dredge
- Spirit
- Artist
- MYERS!
- LEGION!
- NEMESIS!
- Hag
- Bubba
- Oni
- WRAITH!
- Pyramid head
- GHOSTFACE!
- CLOWN!
- Blight
- Twins
- DEATHSLINGER!
- HUNTRESS!
- TRAPPER!
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@Krazzik said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3268366#Comment_3268366
I mean that's exactly what it means. Balancing killers around the top 1% means making all killers able to hold their own and do well reliably against good 4-man SWFs. This in turn means that anyone he isn't a good 4-man SWF gets rolled.
So then killers should just automatically lose the game if they run into a good 4-man SWF team? Or should we just only have the 1 or 2 viable killers? But then if we have only 1 or 2 viable killers, those killers still stomp every other survivor group.
The real solution to this problem is obvious. They need to make solo queue a little more bearable, by allowing them to communicate with each other. Give them kindred and bond as basekit, make blindness not as punishing as a status effect (seriously against solos it's the strongest status effect).
THEN.
We need to make a separate queue for SWF vs solo queue and have the game simply be balanced differently. Maybe in the "SWF" queue, you have to repair more gens, or the killer moves 5% faster, or there are less pallets, or whatever, to bring down the power of the SWF. Then if the solo queues are still too weak, you can fix that, maybe in that mode, there are more pallets, or gen times are a little faster, or bloodlust is disabled. You get the idea.
OR
They need to change what the definition of a "win" is for the killer. Maybe a "win" is actually just killing 1 survivor. That way, if the killer gets a single kill, they "win" against the SWF, and the solo queue players still feel good because they got 2 or 3 people out. So individually they "won" but maybe their team still "lost"
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@Piruluk said:
Remember how Trickstershadow, and Dowsey, Jaee, hyped that game, and there is a big market for balanced competitive 1vs4 game.
Turns out that they were completely wrong, and in fact dbd devs are knowing what are they doing, also all of them returned to play exclusively.
If that is your stance, i'll be waiting for my nurse buffs then, since she is consistently the "worst" kill the in the game based on the "average" player statistics.
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@Mandy said:
no, please do not inundate our support staff with reports that are not actionable.
Yall ever gonna do something about it though? There's a reason there is a penalty for DCing. Hook suicide is basically circumventing that DC penalty.
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@Cyber_Atlas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/354913/base-kit-perks-for-killer-when
Basekit BT is their response to tunneling
Basekit Unbreakable was an attempt for removing some of the frustration of slugging
They are trying to address what people find frustrating of this game. They are not survivors buffs. They are a way to balance the game!
So when are the fixes coming that result in killers who aren't nurse spirit or blight being completely unplayable at a high level?
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@Sava18 said:
I mean in regards to (E). We know Nurse is the strongest killer in the game, every player on both sides agrees. Every killer put's you in situations where there is nothing you can do for the most part, the weaker killers far less than the stronger killers. Nurse does that more than any other killer. What baffles me is when making blight they tested his rush hits being basic attacks and it was way too strong. Currently what make's nurse unfair is the fact that she can insta-down you with her blinks. And don't give me that " but all she can do is blink", yeah that's correct play 5 game's and you will have most the muscle memory down and realize that she starts recharging her blinks while fatiguing. She has the highest skill floor, but her skill ceiling really just come's down to reading survivor's and nothing else.
(D) hag and blight come to mind here as well.
The problem there is a single perk that causes it. It isn't to make her blink attacks special attacks. Because unlike any other killer, she would literally NEVER be able to do a basic attack otherwise and then a significant number of WEAKER perks would be useless on her, forcing her into the hard meta perks, making her more oppressive. The better solution to the starstruck problem is to give her a super tiny terror radius (like 8 meters) and give her a 40 meter lullaby.
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@drsoontm said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3260539#Comment_3260539
I'm not convinced it lowers your MMR. I think someone from BHVR said that kills and escapes weren't the only factors.
Also, you can try stuff even at high MMR, as long as you don't absolutely want to win.
They've stated multiple times that it only looks at kills and escapes. And anecdotally i can clearly perceive my matches getting easier the more i do this.
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3260493#Comment_3260493
You loop killer 2 minutes and get AFK crows? But if the crows are reworked match should have 20-25 minutes time limit.
you know what i mean.
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@Rovend said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3260561#Comment_3260561
They were good. I dont have an internal MMR calculator to know if they were mid, high or god tier, but most games ended very quickly so i assume they were.
Or maybe you aren't as good as you think you are? Also, if we use hours as an estimate, every 8k hour survivor i see must be a SWF bully squad right?
The point is, good nurses are just as rare as good SWF squads.
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@Rovend said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3260552#Comment_3260552
the k are for a thousand of hours in game
see, there's your problem, you are assuming that lots of hours means they are good.
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@Rovend said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3260445#Comment_3260445
For me, based on my experiences, they are not rare at all. I am constantly seeing 4k, 6k, 8k nurses when i play, and i am not top tier either
I didn't know you could get 8 kills in a game.
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@AcelynnBen said:
i really don't get this community
i complained how its a bit too frustrating to get a 4k or even 3k without tunneling and camping
and i got a lot people saying im crying....about getting a 4k but you know, working my .... for it, unlike the opposite side
soooooo do i just camp and tunnel, i mean i know a lot of players don't like that, even i don't, but tbh its a very viable tactic and it always works
so im trying to understand players here, do i camp and tunnel and win or are we trying to make the game better and remove tunneling and camp so everyone enjoys the game
because tbh every time a killer that is still playing fairly, when they complain that they are playing a bit too hard to enjoy the game they always get people telling them they are crying....
you complain about getting camped and tunneled "just use perks or maybe you suck?", you complain about getting gen rushed or finding the game a bit too hard without playing toxic "maybe play better or just use perks"
does anyone have any other argument beside use perks or get gud?
There's basically 2 strategies. You either play to win, or you don't. If you play to win, you do whatever it takes to win and don't care about what other people do or say about it. Here is an excerpt from a free online book i like to refer to about these types of things from
https://sirlin.net/ptwIntroducing... The "Scrub"
The derogatory term “scrub” means several different things. One definition is someone (especially a game player) who is not good at something (especially a game). By this definition, we all start out as scrubs, and there is certainly no shame in that. I mean the term differently, though. A scrub is a player who is handicapped by self-imposed rules that the game knows nothing about. A scrub does not play to win.
Now, everyone begins as a poor player—it takes time to learn a game to get to a point where you know what you’re doing. There is the mistaken notion, though, that by merely continuing to play or “learn” the game, one can become a top player. In reality, the “scrub” has many more mental obstacles to overcome than anything actually going on during the game. The scrub has lost the game even before it starts. He’s lost the game even before deciding which game to play. His problem? He does not play to win.
The scrub would take great issue with this statement for he usually believes that he is playing to win, but he is bound up by an intricate construct of fictitious rules that prevents him from ever truly competing. These made-up rules vary from game to game, of course, but their character remains constant. Let’s take a fighting game off of which I’ve made my gaming career: Street Fighter.
In Street Fighter, the scrub labels a wide variety of tactics and situations “cheap.” This “cheapness” is truly the mantra of the scrub. Performing a throw on someone is often called cheap. A throw is a special kind of move that grabs an opponent and damages him, even when the opponent is defending against all other kinds of attacks. The entire purpose of the throw is to be able to damage an opponent who sits and blocks and doesn’t attack. As far as the game is concerned, throwing is an integral part of the design—it’s meant to be there—yet the scrub has constructed his own set of principles in his mind that state he should be totally impervious to all attacks while blocking. The scrub thinks of blocking as a kind of magic shield that will protect him indefinitely. Why? Exploring the reasoning is futile since the notion is ridiculous from the start.
You will not see a classic scrub throw his opponent five times in a row. But why not? What if doing so is strategically the sequence of moves that optimizes his chances of winning? Here we’ve encountered our first clash: the scrub is only willing to play to win within his own made-up mental set of rules. These rules can be staggeringly arbitrary. If you beat a scrub by throwing projectile attacks at him, keeping your distance and preventing him from getting near you—that’s cheap. If you throw him repeatedly, that’s cheap, too. We’ve covered that one. If you block for fifty seconds doing no moves, that’s cheap. Nearly anything you do that ends up making you win is a prime candidate for being called cheap. Street Fighter was just one example; I could have picked any competitive game at all.
Your other option is to not PTW. My personal strategy is to PTW in order to get rank 1. Then after i get rank 1. I chill out. I roleplay the killer more. I do the following:
- Hook everyone twice
- Kill the obsession.
- Max out my deviousness, brutality, and chase
- Let the other 3 survivors go.
This accomplishes several goals:
- My MMR goes down, making my next game more chill
- The survivors are mostly happy because they escaped and got lots of points.
- Because my future games are easier, i tend to be able to mess around with meme builds and just have fun.
- I get a good amount of bps.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3260333#Comment_3260333
BHVR should give AFK crows to the survivors, if too much time goes by without any of them making a solid effort to repair generators, and no one has been in the hooked or in the dying state for a while, and no one has gotten in a chase for a while.
This is the proper solution. They need to rework crows entirely that if you haven't touched a gen in 2 minutes, you get crows. Then once all gens are powered switch back to old method for crows.
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@Rovend said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3260118#Comment_3260118
It is way more common to found a good nurse than a toxic swf.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3260167#Comment_3260167
Come on, again with the 'nurse has the lowest kill rate'.
Remember that the stats does not include games with DC, and nurse games are plagued with DCs. There are thousands of 3k that are not added to the stats.
That's not how statistics works. You only need a tiny sample size as long as your sample is representative of your population to get an accurate measurement. The reality is that top tier nurses are extremely rare.
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@Maelstrom808 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3260176#Comment_3260176
It's not our obligation to exploit it either. And we are still exploiting it by going after the unhooker that served themselves up on a platter for us rather than punish the person on hook who didn't do anything wrong. What does it matter what the survivors would or wouldn't do? I don't worry about if they are going to give me a free kill if they get everyone to the gates without being sacced, yet I still give hatch. I play to have a good time as are they. There's no need to be miserable to them, if they aren't being so to me.
Because it's this very double standard "survivor rulebook" mentality that is dividing this community. Survivors don't care whether the killer has fun, why should the killer care if the survivors have fun?