Reinami
Reinami
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- Reinami
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@occultistcat said:
I don't understand why killers who's power is most effectively countered by running to the next tile continue to be released. I love this game and I love playing both sides, but when I play survivor and I go against artists/knights and now the skull merchant who just drop their power at a tile and I have to just keep running forward its super boring and not skillful at all. You're being cut off and zoned until you go through enough windows and tiles where eventually you're in a deadzone and they get a hit. I love certain killers gameplay like spirit, blight, deathslinger, huntress, oni.. etc where you have to dodge hits and predict where they are going to go/shoot, there is mindgaming involved and loops are actually utilized properly. I wish we had more gameplay like this because with the Knight and Skull Merchants recent releases I am getting concerned for the downfall of Dead By Daylight.
Because people kept complaining about killers who are anti loop, so they keep making ones that aren't anti-loop and instead are 3 gen killers. So i dunno what you expected.
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@BlueHorkew said:
Ok nerf DH because of the whole sniffing butts thing, if we remove the sniffing butts trying to grab a healthy survivor trying to unhook.
If one is an issue and has to go, than the other is only to go as well. Is that fair?
whataboutism is a logical fallacy for a reason.
How about, things can just be bad for the game and should be changed, regardless of which side it is for?
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@Skill_issue said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3365314#Comment_3365314
does that counter deadhard pretty well?
Basically if you hit them with a chain while injured, they can't dead hard, and then if they break the chain, they get deep wound, and can't dead hard. So yeah, pretty much hard counters it.
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@Skill_issue said:
it is easier to chew through the hIt states correct? I use legion exclusively right now because his/her frenzy hits apply deep wounds so dead hard isnt available.
killers such as bubba, ghostface, and myers should in theory be the correct counter.
Why use other killers if you cant successfully mind game and wait out the dead hard?
it is like if you have a problem with multiple med kits being used and the obvious counter is to use plague more.
Thoughts and opinions?
1 shot killers till have to deal with dead hard. If you are injured, you can still dead hard the 1 shot.
Legion is played a lot actually, but the reality is they are mostly pretty terrible in general and have other problems that aren't dead hard.
The one i have been seeing the most of (and using a lot) is people playing pinhead with the original pain addon
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@Laluzi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3364437#Comment_3364437
Seriously this. Those perks were far healthier for the game than the current gen regression meta. Well, OG Undying was a mess and I'm not defending that, but Ruin and Pop got gutted for no other purpose than to replace them with different perks. Seriously, did anyone think there was something wrong with Pop? Anyone?
Gen regression is the dominant killer strat because regression equals game extension, and that's never going to change. And this lot of gen regression perks is way less dependent on the killer having to maintain any game pressure than the old bunch. Combo in that the last two killers they've released excel at virtually nothing except gen defense and it's not pushing dynamic gameplay. At least Pain Res still exists.
Gen regression is the dominant killer strat because, contrary to popular belief, killers don't LIKE to tunnel and camp, but it is necessary in the base game because the gens go too fast for how long it takes to down a survivor.
Try playing without ANY gen regression perk for a day while making sure to never tunnel or camp, and i guarantee you will lose nearly every match unless you are playing nurse/alch ring blight.
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@BenOfMilam said:
Gen kick meta sucks.
Its almost like the game was in a much healthier state when ruin+undying/Pop was the meta and the killer had to defend gens actively by chasing and downing survivors instead of just camping a 3gen. But we had to nerf those because they were "high use"
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@Davenport916 said:
How is she, are the changes they made worth it? First killer I have absolutely no desire to buy. Probably worst designed killer visually and the perks don't give me that drive. Looks like 3 more months of waiting for something fun. Might just jump ship for another 6 months and see how they handle things
Everyone is generally perceiving her as weak. At this point though i think i have a good handle on her, and i expect cries for nerfs soon, she leans hard into the 3-4 gen style that everyone hates, but isn't really good at it, just annoying to play against when she does that style.
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@solarjin1 said:
You piss a lot of people off but also did some good.
●D tier killers was actually somewhat useable because of you.
● The Knight went from a high c tier to a low s tier whenever 3 gens was left while using you.
●sadako condemned build went from being a gimmick to a real threat because of the gen stalling u provided. Rest yourself...u done enough!!
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/DUJ7N22CEMBV/20230306-211254.jpg
The new strat is pretty much just as good if not better against SWF (but weaker against solos), just not on the killers that are bad.
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@BlueHorkew said:
So a popular take is that a survivor using DH gets to loop the killer for an 1 extra minute, even if i think that number is a bit exaggerating, that most times the chase will not be prolonged by that long, lets go with it.
Ok, so how much do you think a survivor gets from using SB? I have seen takes like its only 7 to 10 seconds to catch up.
People, do you remember blood rush? You know, the perk that people went insane saying that it's unreasonable to think a killer can catch up to survivor that just SB away in 20 seconds, that 40 or 60 seconds is a more reasonable amount of time to catch up. So, SB gives survivor 10 seconds or also a minute, which one?
SB and DH are in similar strength, the reason why DH is infuriating for killer is just how the perk is designed.
In the end SB can give a survivor a similar amount of value with way more consistency.
And honestly, for M1 killers especially, you would be shocked how hard games would become if SB became more popular than DH.
Either that, or blood rush was ok, and you you were all acting like the world was burning. Honestly either could be true
Its about 7 seconds. Imagine a map that is an infinite straight line in all directions, and the killer is running at a survivor. The survivor starts running away from the killer when they are 30 meters way. Survivor speed is 4.0 m/s, killer is 4.6 m/s and lunge distance is 6 meters.
To close the gap of 30-6 = 24 meters to lunge at the survivor, the killer gains 0.6 meters of distance every second on the survivor. Meaning it will take 40 seconds to catch the survivor if they do not have sprint burst.
If the survivor DOES have sprint burst, then for 3 seconds, they run at 6.0 m/s instead of 4.0 m/s. This amounts to, instead of losing 1.8 meters of distance in those 3 seconds, they actually GAIN 4.2 meters of distance. You are probably noticing that this doesn't even cover the distance it takes to do a lunge, but if we plug in those numbers, now the survivor is 30+4.2-6(lunge distance) = 28.2 meters of distance away from being hit. The time it takes to close this gap at gaining 0.6 m/s of distance is 47 seconds.
Thus, in this most ideal "hold w" scenario, of a map with infinite straight lines, sprint burst gains the survivor a grand total of 7 seconds of distance. In reality, bloodlust is a thing as well, so it probably actually amounts to a little bit less, maybe around 6 seconds, but this math is easier.
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@BlueHorkew said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOItu6JoQ6M
Really enjoy some of his ideas. Knight needs to be given counter play to become less hated and boring for survivors.
What do you think, especially if you play Knight?
The problem is that his current design isn't OP, its just annoying. He needs a rework honestly.
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@HoodedWildKard said:
Seriously they are so boring and bland. Wouldn't take much just to give them something interesting and unique.
Trapper could go for the classic embed the machete in the head, nice close up, put a boot on their chest, and work it free, plenty of cracking and a gross *schluck* as it pulls free.
Wraith could repeatedly crush their head between his weapon and his bell with lots of bongs and screams. Or maybe just do the Predator move and pull out their head and spine in one go as a little homage to his backstory with Azarov.
Every other killer has something at least a little interesting and unique. Give the basekit killers a little love.
I feel like the end game mori thing is their first step to making cosmetic moris. So you can buy new mori animations in the store. First they need to build them into the main game. I think their original idea was too complicated. They should just make the yellow mori basekit and make it so when all the survivors are downed/hooked, that all the hooked survivors go through their hook states instantly as if every survivor was on the hook does now.
Then, once they become more common, they can start selling new animations.
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@tristenbennett381 said:
Trapper should use his traps in the mori, Wraith idk
He takes the bell and puts it on the survivors head, then smacks it a bunch.
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@philward1953 said:
Okay, my idea is to bring back the old DH where you'd get distance, BUT, a killer would be able to hit you as you're dashing.
I remember that was always the thing that peeved me off the most. A survivor could just turn to me a dash through my swing without being hurt.
Of course a survivor would still get exhausted.
Also, the distance would only be about 2/3 of what old dead hard actually gave you, meaning that a survivor would only be able to use it to only get a slight bit of distance in chase. This would make it so even if a survivor used DH right in front of a killer, they could lunge and down them. No more avoiding lunges.
To summarize:
- Survivors can use DH to dash 2/3 of what old DH would give them.
- Survivors would still get exhausted
- A killer can still down a survivor mid-dash, forcing them to use it to gain a little distance in chase and not some third health state or crazy juke.
- No more avoiding lunges since the distance of the dash is decreased.
- You CANNOT DH over bear-traps or hag-traps, Pyramid Head's trail, etc. without them giving you their respective effects and such.
NEW Perk Desc.
Activate-able Perk.
You can take a beating.
When Injured, tap into your adrenaline bank and dash forward quickly to give yourself some time.
- Press the Active Ability button while running to dash forward.
Dead Hard causes the Exhausted Status Effect for 60/50/40 seconds
Dead Hard cannot be used when Exhausted.
I'll post this is suggestions after people give their two-cents. Things may change obv. because of suggestions.
This just brings back "dead hard for distance" which is where it was primarily a problem. The new one is a problem because it creates a dumb gameplay loop where killers just can't lunge anymore. The old one had that problem too, but something bout it made it weaker, maybe it was that if you saw the dash animation and then lunged, you could still hit them, i honestly don't know.
The problem with dead hard when compared to other exhaustion perks is that it has literally 0 downside in normal circumstances (the one downside it has, creates unhealthy gameplay to exploit it, which i'll explain later.) Lets look at all the exhaustion perks and their downsides:
- Adrenaline - Only activates once in the trial and at the very end, mostly it is used for the heal rather than the actual sprint burst. Because it only activates once though, and it causes exhaustion after, i generally think isn't as problematic as dead hard.
- Background player (the new one coming) - This one is mainly going to be used for flashlight saves, But, if you aren't in position, or on the other side of the map and the killer picks up a survivor, good job you just got exhaustion for no reason, meaning you have to really plan for how to use it.
- Balanced Landing - This one has very few places on most maps in can be used. The majority of maps have maybe 2 spots you can reliably use it, and the rest are due to map mechanics. Making this one highly situational. It is very powerful when it works, and i'd argue more powerful that most, but very situational.
- Head on - This one requires you to enter a locker, meaning you can't use it actively in a chase unless you have a perk setup like quick and quiet or others to trick the killer. Making it require a whole setup to use like this, or that you generally can't use it actively in a chase. This is more of a setup/planning perk.
- Lithe - I'd argue this is the exhaustion perk that is the most consistent. It is the hardest one to "accidentally" use, but is also one of the weakest. You can't NOT activate it and still fast vault, meaning you can't use it to loop the killer around a strong structure, then go through a window, then start it all over again. It can't be used in a chase "efficiently" then, because you HAVE to use it when you fast vault. This makes the efficiency aspect of this one lower then mot of the others.
- Overcome - Before this came out, this is actually what i think they should have reworked dead hard into. The downside to this one of course is that you must be healthy to use it. If you are injured and get hit, it does nothing. It also is hard countered by insta-downs/exposed status effects.
- Smash hit - This one requires a pallet stun to get use out of, which is often easier said than done. What this does is turn unsafe pallets into safe ones. However, if used at a safe pallet, it doesn't really do much, because a safe pallet stun on a killer is already a chase ender, so this just ends the chase harder.
- Sprint Burst - This is the one that everyone says people would switch to if they deleted dead hard, which i think is fine, this one has plenty of downsides. You can't run around while using it so you must walk. It can be 99'd, but then, you can't do ANYTHING, not even drop from a high place, or you aren't 99ing it anymore. Making it difficult to use in those situations. Additionally, people think it adds a ton of distance to the "hold w/leave early" meta. But it doesn't. Imagine an infinite straight line map, where the survivor started running from the killer at 30 meters and the killer had to catch up to hit them. Without sprint burst, this would take 40 seconds for the killer to hit the survivor. With sprint burst, it takes 47 seconds (rounded up) this is actually extremely minimal and is the best case scenario. Normally a killer gains 0.6 meters of distance per second on a survivor running. Sprint burst turns that into the killer losing 1.4 meters of distance for 3 seconds. This amounts to an extra 4.2 meters of distance. Lunge distance is 6 meters. This adds basically a joke amount of distance for holding w. The point of this perk is to get you out of a dead zone or off a gen that is in a bad area to a safer area, not to hold w.
Then we come to dead hard. What is the downside of dead hard? There is none, the downside is that you have to be injured to use it, but that is going to happen over the natural course of a chase. What about insta downs? Well with instadowns, yeah it actually gets countered like overcome, but the difference is it only gets countered ONCE and then actually counters the instadown! Because lets say the survivor gets instadowned and hooked. Then they just stay injured, and even if the attack instadowns, they can still dead hard it while injured and get a second health state. So after that, they actually counter the instadowning.
The only REAL downside of dead hard, is that it can't be used while you have deep wounds. This means a handful of non-meta killers do ok against it, like deathslinger and legion, but most importantly, it means that the counter to dead hard, is the one of the most unhealthy things in the game. Hard tunneling. If i chase someone, and they have dead hard, what makes more sense. Do i let them get unhooked, run off and heal themselves, and then the next time i chase them, i have to deal with an extra health state potentially, giving them 3 health states? Or, what if instead, i INTENTIONALLY hit them right as they get unhooked, putting them into deep wounds, so now they can't use dead hard. Yeah, they get the speed boost from the hit, and the basic borrowed time, but that will only give them the distance they would get if we had a normal chase. So now i only have to chase and hit them a single time to get a hook.
Lastly, the other problem with dead hard, is when it becomes effective in a chase. Looking again at all the other perks, when do they become effective in a chase?
- Adrenaline - Not really plannable or reliable in chase outside of a SWF play, but even then it only works once a game.
- Background player (the new one coming) - This actually takes affect AFTER you as a killer DOWNED a survivor and go to hook them, and it only activates on another player, and on top of that the best thing for it is for flashlight saving, which has plenty of counters of its own.
- Balanced Landing - This one actually can activate anytime during a chase, almost as well as dead hard. The difference is that the killer can usually obviously see when the survivor has this, and maybe make a play around it. Additionally it being so situational makes it less annoying to deal with.
- Head on - Can't be used in a chase outside of tricks and builds around it.
- Lithe - This generally happens near the early part of a chase, because you activate it as soon as you fast vault. The only way to "save" it for later parts of the chase, is to not use windows, and instead drop pallets. But doing that, means you are wasting precious resources on the map.
- Overcome - This happens right after you get a hit. Giving you as a killer a chance to make a choice. At this point, you landed a hit, which means you already got some pressure, but they zoom off. Maybe you can leave them, but now they have to go heal, giving you pressure.
- Smash hit - This one happens after a pallet stun, so it can happen anytime. But, once you know the survivor has it, you know they are looking for pallet plays and can bait and play around it much better. The interaction also happens around pallets, so even if it ends the chase, you still get a pallet out of it, meaning that you got SOMETHING out of it, no matter where it activates.
- Sprint Burst - Unless it is 99'd, which means the survivor isn't doing generators or anything meaningful (free pressure) it is used right at the start of the chase. Meaning you can choose to leave and chase someone else, or as mentioned, since it only adds 7 seconds to the "hold w" it isn't as bad as people think.
- Dead hard - Happens right at the end of the chase, right as you think it is about to end, and then BAM suddenly the chase is extended at minimum another 20 seconds if they just "hold w" but likely longer as they will get to a pallet or something,
Without completely reworking the perk to do something else, the way to "fix" dead hard, is to give it a real counter. I'd propose making it more skill based, basically, i would rework dead hard to do this:
This would make it so, if the killer can down you quickly after hitting you, then you don't get to use dead hard. But if the killer takes too long, you can get yourself another health state. Additionally if you get healed or downed, it becomes inactive, requiring that you need to charge it up again. It also actually DISCOURAGES tunneling, because if you come back to the hook to tunnel the survivor they are still injured and will likely have dead hard again by the time you can hit them. Meaning it is better to wait for them to be healed, and then skillfully end the chase early, rather than try to tunnel them out.
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@Phantom_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3361138#Comment_3361138
I don't. I was mentioning a different example, when you decided to throw in your own anecdote about your experience with Wesker and what goes wrong for YOU. In your case it might very well be latency. In that which I was initially speaking of has nothing to do with latency :) Also I understood your point you don't need to keep regurgitating it, when you clearly haven't understood mine. So stop responding to me and wasting both of our times.
You mentioned that "him grabbing your through the vaulting animation" and talking about that. My point was, on his side of things, he probably only grabbed you partway through the animation. The example i gave is an example where it works the other way. And i'm saying the both are likely related to latency issues or just networking/server issues.
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@Devilishly_Rowdy said:
This is what it has come to sadly, make the game a 3v1 asap or lose. Because no amount of downs or hooks are gonna matter IF the survivors are just efficient at gens. All the new information on the survivor hud is cool for solo survivors but has also massively boosted gen speeds. The gen regression perk nerfs have also encouraged killers to tunnel more, because why go for hooks and not even get rewarded for it? Some survivor mains think that killers are just vile disgusting players that just want cheap wins and thus tunnel, but that isn't true most of the time, tunneling is literally the only way to win against decent survivors. Otherwise, enjoy those t-bags at the exits.
If they just balanced the maps instead of increasing gen speed, it would help massively, breaking like 40 pallets while other survivors sit on gens is the actual problem.
Survivors running dead hard every game, and then wonder why they get tunneled. Probably because tunneling you off the hook, hitting you as you get unhooked so you get deep wounds, and then downing you while you can't use dead hard, is a nice counter to dead hard.
If you don't want to get tunneled, run sprint burst instead, because then you can sprint away. As a survivor, i generally run sprint burst and OTR. Basically, it means if they hard tunnel me, i get another 2 health states and a fair chase where i got a headstart to get to something. In those situations, i like getting tunneled because holding M1 is boring.
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@Phantom_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3361073#Comment_3361073
IDK about the vaulting instead of grabbing, but I think that this is more of a Wesker issue than a latency problem. I've never had a killer grab me after the vaulting animation or been able to do so myself whilst playing killer. I reckon it has to do with his powers, where one cancels the other out, e.g. you vaulting instead of grabbing and so on.
Edit: maybe this can be tested with Legion, considering their powers are quite similar to Wesker's 🤔
No, you have it backwards. Like, i know a survivor is vaulting a window, because their item disappears, i rush at them, and i SHOULD hit them, but then for some reason i don't but i just bounce off the window and nothing happens. I don't hit them, i don't vault, nothing. If they were mid vault, such that i couldn't vault, it should be a hit, if they successfully vaulted, then they should be out of the animation so i should vault after them. But like i said i think it is a latency thing.
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@Phantom_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3360690#Comment_3360690
This ^
I don't hate him nor do I think he needs to get nerfed. But him grabbing you, when the entire vaulting animation has played, is truly BS. He does the same at exit gates lol.
This is similar to dead hard from the killer perspective. There are plenty of times a survivors is about to vault, and i use my power as wesker, and they vault the pallet, but i bump into it, even though i should have definitely gotten them, i feel like in those cases i should at least be able to vault behind them. I would imagine its a latency issue.
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@Chilli_man2400 said:
The last update we got on a killer that was major was Legion and Ghostface and that was 1 year ago almost. I know you probably won’t answer me but can we get some enlightenment on who is getting changed next?
My guesses are either Twins or Sadako. Who do you think should be looked at next?
I'd assume twins based on what other posters says, followed by myers. He is in a pretty bad state, and has some really problematic addons that need to be removed.
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@Devilishly_Rowdy said:
This is what it has come to sadly, make the game a 3v1 asap or lose. Because no amount of downs or hooks are gonna matter IF the survivors are just efficient at gens. All the new information on the survivor hud is cool for solo survivors but has also massively boosted gen speeds. The gen regression perk nerfs have also encouraged killers to tunnel more, because why go for hooks and not even get rewarded for it? Some survivor mains think that killers are just vile disgusting players that just want cheap wins and thus tunnel, but that isn't true most of the time, tunneling is literally the only way to win against decent survivors. Otherwise, enjoy those t-bags at the exits.
If they just balanced the maps instead of increasing gen speed, it would help massively, breaking like 40 pallets while other survivors sit on gens is the actual problem.
The game would be in a much healthier state if they made it impossible to eliminate someone early (shared hooks maybe?) and then rebalanced gen speeds/killer strength/survivor objectives to compensate. Would make the game more fun for both sides.
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@Peanits said:
Your intentions are good, and I don't think anyone would disagree that making underperforming Killers more competitive is a good idea, but there's a lot more to game development than simply telling someone 'fix everything'. I'll give a quick and simplified example of what this actually entails.
You're told to buff any underperforming Killer. Your first step is to do an analysis on which Killers require your attention. While doing so, you're going to find that most Killers seem more or less where they should be, but if you start to dig into specifics, you might find that some are performing really well in some skill ranges and poorly in others.
And so you'll need to dig deeper and find out why that's the case. Why are some people doing better with them than others? Is there something that more skilled players are taking advantage of that average players aren't? Have good Survivors mastered playing against a certain aspect of their power while average Survivors struggle? This alone is a lot of research, sifting through countless threads, video, streams, and even working with our data team to draw data from thousands of matches.
Once that's done, you'll need to figure out how to change them. What is a change that will make them more competitive in the ranges where they're struggling, but won't make them frustratingly overpowered in the ranges where they're already doing well? The Nemesis is a great example of this. Shortly after he was released, we found that he wasn't doing so hot in high skill lobbies, but he was doing very well in low skill lobbies. Upon further research, we discovered the high skill players were more likely to mutate his Tentacle Strike. And this was the key: We could safely buff the third tier of his power to make him stronger for high skill players without making him too strong for average players (where he was already doing well).
Next, you'll need to find the time to actually slot this update in. This is a very complicated part since every department has only so much bandwidth for each update. If your changes require animation support, for instance, you might not be able to squeeze your rework into an update that already has a bunch of other animation work required (such as a new Chapter).
When you find a spot for it, you need to playtest it and see how everything feels with a wide variety of players. Is it too strong in some cases, or too weak? Does this solve the problems you've set out to solve? Is it intuitive? Are there any control or feedback issues that need to be resolved? Depending on the complexity of the changes you've made, this can be a back and forth process that requires a lot of iteration.
And finally once all that is done, it needs to go through polishing and QA before it can finally hit the PTB, where you may have to iterate on it some more depending on how people feel about it.
All of this is for one Killer. There are soon to be 31 in the game. Meanwhile, you also have problematic perks, maps, mechanics- you name it- that people are giving feedback on which also require your attention.
Thinking, "Hey, let's buff weaker Killers" is only step 1 of the process, and it's a thought that everyone has had. If it were as easy as that, I promise you we would have done that already. Balance changes like these can take anywhere from weeks to months of work depending on their scope, and while we would love to be able to snap our fingers and do this for the next update, we're talking about literal years of work for this alone, let alone Killers who may be too strong or perks.
So yes, the intention is very good! But the TLDR is that it's not as easy as you think.
I don't disagree with the difficulty of the matter. But this is where i think development cycle comes in. I don't work for yall so i have no idea what it is like, or why things are the way they are. But honestly it feels like the development/release cycle is very long.
Many live service games, release patches very often, usually every 2 weeks or so. But generally DBD is relegated to 2 big releases every 3 months, and then a few bug fix patches here and there. But the changes don't actually happen until those big releases most of the time.
Where it gets very disappointing, is when you make tweaks to things, most of the time they are very minor changes to only a handful of perks. Rarely do we get updates on killers.
But for example, lets look at old clown, before when he slowed down while using his bottles. Why did it take so long for something like that to change? If you had a more frequent release cycle, why not just try changing it see how it works out for a few weeks, and then if it doesn't, revert the change. It would be a very easy thing to change, just remove the slowdown he gets when throwing his bottles. And i say "easy" knowing that it probably is. Regardless of whatever memes go around about "spaghetti code". I'm a software engineer, so i know that such a change is easy. Likely behind the scenes is more politics/product decisions happening that make these things take a while.
But one of the main things i noticed is, that you are all very reluctant to be wrong or to "overbuff" things. Generally, most things in this game are actually quite weak. Both sides maybe have a dozen perks that are any good. Only a handful of killers can compete with the best of SWF and you seem very reluctant to buff things. In recent memory in fact, the only thing i can think of is eruption. You buffed it, then later decided it was too buffed, then nerfed it, but then before it goes live you all recognized on the PTB that you overnerfed it, so you buffed it back up a bit. This is actually GREAT! I think we should see more of this type of thing.
Why not experiment more with changes? Remember when you did the experiment where you removed bloodlust? Why not do more of that. What if we had a weekend where you did some major buffs to trapper and see how it goes, then turn it off, and look at the data and see what happened.
I think in general the couple of things i see is:
- You all are not "data informed" you are "data driven" to the point where if the data says "this is fine" you accept that as fact, rather than thinking about how frustrating something might be to play against or with.
- The development cycle is too long, waiting 3 months between new content, is totally understandable, you often make a new killer, usually pretty unique, new survivors, new perks, often a new map. These things make sense. I even accept the lengthy time it takes to look at things like the end game mori thing you tested a while back. Those things make sense. But why does it take so long to just do number tweaks? If you see a perk is underperforming or overperforming, why not just tweak the numbers a bit and see what happens? Then, if it turned out to be the wrong thing, revert it.
- For example, does anyone even use Hex: Ruin anymore? It was probably overnerfed. What if yall changed it back to 200% but kept the (it goes away when a survivor dies) aspect. Changing it from 100% to 200% should take someone maybe 30 seconds to change. Maybe yall have some kind of crazy testing suite so you got to update that, but it certainly shouldn't be something you can't squeeze a small amount of time to just try this kind of thing?
- Even if these types of things didn't go live all the time, why not put them on PTB and have more frequent testing?
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@Nirgendwohin said:
Isn't how fast you can start healing related to the killers ping?
why would it have anything to do with the killer's ping when the killer isn't involved in this interaction?
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@GrimReaperJr1232 said:
Yeah, yeah, another Dead Hard post. But I want you to sell it to me. How is this perk fair?
I played a game of Trapper today. In it, there were four dead hards. I kept track and I ate 9. How did this happen?
5 of them were from Dead Harding into a pallet. What do I do? I didn't lunge, btw, I just kept walking because I know they can react to me lunging. Swing when they end their DH before they can drop the pallet? What if they don't DH, which did happen twice? Not to mention, latency/server can make the timing borderline impossible to nail at times.
3 of them were from body blocking a hook, and obviously, waiting isn't much of an option. (to be clear, those 3 were all on the same hook/for the same survivor).
And then there was 1 in the open when I tried downing a Yui when she got off a gen while injured. Alright, that was fair.
9 Dead Hards, 5 of which I could literally do nothing, and 3 that were done in solidarity to save a teammate. Even discarding the latter, that still makes 5/9, over half, being Dead Hards I physically could do nothing about.
So how's this fair? Sell it to me. Justify it. And before you say it, Nurse and Blight being stupid strong does not justify stupidity on the other side. It just makes both stupidly strong.
Honestly, i expect dead hard to get changed at some point and i don't disagree with you. But just play to hard counter it.
Dead hard, is "hard" countered, by "hard" tunneling. Proxy camp them, then when you see a survivor going for the save, INTENTIONALLY hit the survivor that is coming off the hook right after they get unhooked. They'll get a speed boost, and then you just keep going for them. When you do this, you only deal with 1 health state, instead of 3.
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@Xernoton said:
I just played a few matches as Nemesis. I used no perks and addons because I really want to learn how to play this killer to the absolute best. Whenever I try to learn a new killer I will play as nice as possible. I don't camp, I don't tunnel, I don't slug for longer than 10 seconds. I understand that playing like this will cost me a majority of matches and I'm fine with that.
What I don't understand is why every single team I go against has at least 1 jerk that will either dc, tell me to end myself or teabag me in the exit gate with his entire squad before telling me how bad of a killer I am. Don't get me wrong, I've somewhat gotten used to this kind of stuff and I don't care about that too much. However, I've tried to find a way to make everyone happy in the game while still having fun myself. That didn't work out.
So tell me: What do you want me to do? What does it take for survivors to not be awful?
Edit: My choice of words isn't ideal. I made it sound like it's every survivor, when it's not. There are definitely nice people also on both sides. Please note, I did not intent to make this an 'us-vs-them' discussion in any way.
While this isn't completely immune to toxicity, i find it helps alot.
- Make it your goal to hook every survivor twice and not kill them.
- The exception to this is you should kill your obsession (because roleplay is fun!)
- Then, max out your bloodpoints in the other 3 categories.
- Then let the rest of the survivors escape
This accomplishes a few things:
- Your MMR will go down, because you only killed 1 survivor, but not by a lot, but over time your games will become more chill as you get matched with lower mmr players.
- The survivors for the most part will be relatively happy, because you let them escape
- Even the obsession usually has a good time because the survivors still "won"
- You get pretty high bloodpoints, around 60% of sacrifice, and you max out the other 3 categories, giving you about as many as if you won the game killing them all.
- The survivors get a ton of bloodpoints, so they feel even better.
- Lower MMR survivors tend to be less toxic.
All in all it becomes a win/win situation. If you want to get rank 1, you can throw a "step 0" in there, and at the start of the month, you tryhard until you get rank 1, then start doing this, since you can't rank down you don't have to worry, and since you have been tanking your mmr, your games should be easier to win, making it easier/faster to get rank 1.
However, even doing this, you still get the occasional toxic player who just can't stand that you even existed in the match.
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@Dbdfan398 said:
In this healing medkit, coh meta - I have never seen people dc against a killer so much as when I play plague.
1 min timeout? TOO SHORT!
I will say this:
I think that in this game we should take DCing and killing yourself on hook as serious leavers and feeders are taken in DotA2 and CS:GO and LoL and so on. By completely BANNING them from the game on a scale of: 24 hours/72 hours/1 week/2 weeks/PERMABAN if they keep doing it.
However, it is only 1 minute once a day, after that it scales pretty hard.
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@Saiph said:
Contrary to killers, who have 10+ good regression perks, survivors don't have the luxury of choice, there are only 3-4 exhaustion perks that are good. So one would expect the pick rate of any exhaustion perk to be naturally high (around 25%) just because of lack of competition.
Maybe BHVR should increase competition to Dead Hard by introducing new OP perks and Dead Hard's pickrate will magically decrease. Is that what you want?
Comparing DH and Eruption is silly as one perk requires high skill to use while the other requires exactly zero.
10+ good regression perks? You must be joking. Lets look at every perk that could even be considered a gen defense perk:
- Call of Brine
- Corrupt Intervention
- Dead man's switch
- Deadlock
- Eruption
- Grim embrace
- Hex: Huntress : Lullaby
- Hex: Pentimento
- Hex: Ruin
- Jolt
- Merciless Storm
- Oppression
- Overcharge
- Pop goes the Weasel
- Scourge Hook: Gift of Pain
- Scourge Hook: Pain Resonance
- Thanatophobia
Now lets look at the completely useless ones:
- Grim Embrace: This one is a complete joke of a perk, it takes way too long to activate, by the time it does, it doesn't give you enough pressure and is way too short. you will almost never get any value out of this one.
- Hex: Huntress Lullaby: Another complete joke, any decent survivor can hit the skillchecks regardless of the warning, and even then being a hex it can get cleansed so fast, and you'll likely lose 2-3 gens during your first chase anyway, so it is not going to give you much value.
- Hex: Ruin: This one was nerfed into oblivion and uselessness, you'll never be able to get any decent value due to the regression being 1/4 of a survivors PROGRESSION. Since the nerf, survivors often don't even bother to cleanse it anymore.
- Merciless storm: Any decent survivor can hit the skill checks, and even if they don't, it simply blocks the gen for 20 seconds, doesn't do any kind of regression and only activates once.
- Oppression: The cooldown on this is way way too long to be servicable. On top of that, it doesn't actually give any bonus regression, its just kicking multiple gens.
- Pop goes the Weasel: This one was nerfed into uselessness. It has a timer, meaning you often can't use it on a gen with the highest progress, and in order to reach even pain resonance levels of value the gen needs to be at over 50% progress, on top of that you need to go and walk to the gen. Since the nerf, you generally barely gain back the amount of time you spent walking to the gen and kicking it. Dead perk
- Scourge Hook: Gift of Pain: This one is pretty useless most of the time, it requires you to not hit the person who has it, so even if you go out of your way to not tunnel, they can body block someone else to force you to remove the debuff, or they can just not heal and power through.
- Thanatophobia: This perk was nerfed into complete uselessness due to a single killer, which is just a joke. If you don't have all 4 injured you are gaining literally 2 seconds on a single generator for each person injured, what a waste.
That leaves us with the ones that are decent:
- Corrupt Intervention: Depending on the killer you are playing, this can slow down the early game quite a bit and give you some time to get started, but still, once it is done, it is done.
- Dead man's switch: this perk is only usable with pain resonance, outside of that, it is relegated to the useless category
- Eruption (post nerf): Right now it is very good, but after the nerf it will simply be usable.
- Hex: Pentimento: This CAN work on a hex build or with plaything, but these days people often ignore plaything and just do gens.
- Jolt: Isn't very reliable and can be heavily countered by survivors, additionally knocking off 7.2 seconds off a gen or 2 isn't really anything to write home about
- Overcharge: Against good survivors, the skill check aspect is useless, and the fact that the perk starts at lower than base regression before kicking in 20 seconds later, it really doesn't seem much use.
That leaves us with the only 3 good ones:
- Call of Brine: The fact that it ups the base regression to honestly probably what regression should be is great, and the fact that it gives information as well. For a gen kicking build this perk is a must.
- Deadlock: Deadlock is much better than corrupt, not only because it doesn't prematurely end, but it gives you more information. You see the gen that you need to start defending next when it gets blocked, and it prevents gen rushing much better than corrupt does.
- Scourge Hook: Pain Resonance: The only decent gen regression perk left that is mostly passive. You know off 13 seconds of progress off the gen with the most progress. Survivors also scream when on the gen, giving you information as to whether it is being worked on, and often if you pay attention it can tell you where the gen is. Additionally i combines nicely with deadlock and is part of the main meta build that will happen after eruption nerf of (PR/DMS/Thrilling Tremors/Anything)
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@jamally093 said:
I mean survivors have Distortion which hides the aura of the survivor but would a perk that hides you from killer instinct be op probably work the same way as Distortion a few stacks you have to do something to gain those stacks back but would it be OP?
I don't think it would be OP, but the problem is that it would effectively counter a few killers that are actually pretty bad as it is. Could you imagine playing as legion and running into a full team using that? It would be terrible.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
You're going to have to complain to sony about that one.
They are the ones who are sticklers to changing anything related to achievements.
I guaranty you that the only reason it took so long to make the hatch only spawnable for one survivor because of that one achievement that asked for all survivors to jump through the hatch and Sony making it as difficult as possible to change it
This is untrue. Basically, Sony's policy is, as long as the achievement is still technically achievable, it cannot be changed. However if it becomes changed such that it is no longer achievable, then it can be changed.
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@Skill_issue said:
I never understood why a killer is punished for completing their objective and it leaves them open to unhookable situations on bad hook placement maps like midwich.
It would help with the slugging situation since survivors still dont get a way to bleed out faster than waiting for 4 minutes on the ground. Vital gameplay indeed.
@JPLongstreet said:
Primarily lore related. Also the challenge created by the hook deadzone I suppose. This is one of the oldest game mechanics left unchanged, and many do call it outdated. Personally I just work around it.
@GreyBigfoot said:
It's a good game design to prevent killers from using the same areas over and over. Some dead zones can inescapable if multiple people are caught out and the killer could continually use the same hook. Just like survivors need to be wise with pallets, the killer should be with hooks.
I find myself in this situation as killer sometimes where I'm like "do I want to sacrifice this person on a Scourge Hook, or should I risk going farther, and try getting 1-3 more uses from it before I remove it from the map?" It's an interesting risk/reward scenario and I think the killer can play around it just fine, except in rare cases.
And if the survivors insist on being extra obstinate about it, you have the power to punish that by leaving them crawling.
It's an old mechanic and "Fine" in the sense that the killer should be able to play around it.
However, it is terrible game design because it can lead to situations where survivors can effectively hold the game hostage by hiding in a corner. Had a game where i hooked someone and lost the hook, and the 2 survivors left ran to a corner of the map and it was physically impossible for me to down and hook them. So my only choice was to down them and wait for the bleed out timer but, oh wait, they both were running no mither. So the game lasted 30 minutes....
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@Flawless_ said:
Over the past few months, a lot of people have been claiming that tunneling in DbD is out of control, some would even say that tunneling is necessary to win games at high-level. Whether you agree with this assessment or not, isn’t the point of this discussion. Personally, I am of the idea that people should play the game however they want, and in some cases tunneling someone out of the game may be the only way to turn a game around. Now that being said, I think we can all agree that being tunneled out in early game with no recourse It’s pretty ######### and contributes to a lot of the toxicity. Tunneling may be a valid strategy but right now, there is no risk for the killer to do so.
Considering that a) killer is the easiest it’s ever been and b) there should be a risk for the immense reward you get for tunneling someone out, I think the solution is actually pretty simple:
Make DS (the old one with five seconds of stun) base kit, but only after the second unhook.
Back when DS was a thing, the loss of momentum from being hit with DS would be enough to make killers think twice before going for the unhooked survivor right away. Smart killers would down the person and leave them on the ground, which would still cause another survivor to have to come pick them up. However, in some situations it would still be beneficial for the killer to go for the unhooked person if it meant taking them out of the game, just like nowadays, except with a much higher risk. Also, if you enjoy tunneling, you’re free to do so after their first hook. Survivors on death hook tend to play a lot safer in general anyway. And if you’re a survivor who tries to use DS offensively, well, you’re dead. Win-win.
Now of course, I understand that this would be a strong change, but I think it can be tweaked in a way that it isn’t super scuffed. As a killer who rarely tunnels I don’t feel that this would affect me much. Making it after second hook would also mean that this is more of a mid-late game mechanic, which would allow killers to still build pressure in early game. I’m not sure if this would be too much paired with base kit unbreakable. What do you guys think? Decisive strike would have to be reworked, but that’d be a lot easier than creating a new mechanic.
Tunneling only works because you let it work. I'd bet most of the people complaining about tunneling also run dead hard. Surprise! Dead hard is countered by tunneling. Once i know a survivor has dead hard, i'll do my best to hit them just as they get unhooked to put them into deep wounds, then tunnel them. That way i only have to deal with 1 health state rather than letting them heal up and then a future chase being 3 health states.
If you don't want to get tunneled, run OTR and sprint burst. It means the killer can't really hit you after you get unhooked before you get somewhere safe, and OTR gives you a second health state for 90 seconds. And if the killer doesn't hit you until that 90 seconds up, then you definitely won the chase anyway.
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@MrPeanutbutter said:
“Iron Will is not supposed to make survivors completely silent”.
So all the killer has to do is turn up the volume on their headphones to completely counter this perk. Iron Will is useless now and there’s a good reason that it is rarely used anymore.
That's not how sound works in this game. It also reduces the distance at which you hear these sounds. I can say from experience, that iron will can really mess up killers. It is less of a stealth perk now, and more of a looping/chase perk. Really really hard to tell if a survivor left the loop or not. Often you can not leave the loop, but the killer think you did, just because they can't hear you anymore. Giving you some good distance at that point.
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@Nicholas said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3353475#Comment_3353475
I just had to laugh at your advice at the end! DS? Totally useless even when paired with Parental Guidance. Most killers wait out BT, making the 10 seconds negligible. It basically just delays the inevitable, does little in the way of assisting with tunneling with camping. No, don't get me wrong, these perks and others can help in certain very specific circumstances where the planets are perfectly aligned, but don't act like this is the definitive answer to tunneling!
BT adds 10 seconds to your default 10 seconds. Most killers might try to "wait out" the first 10 seconds, but not the full 20 seconds. And if they wait out the full 20 seconds, you basically gave them at least a somewhat decent minimum chase. And even then 20 seconds should be more than enough time to get to a pallet or somewhere safe.
DS is far from useless, barring maybe nurse. Generally, unless you are in a dead zone, DS should give you just enough time to get to a pallet. It gives you 3 seconds of distance which is around 12 meters. Granted with lag, and the drop animation this probably becomes around 10 meters. That still gives you a solid ~7-8 seconds before the killer can hit you again. Again ,this should be plenty of time to get to a pallet or window or something else.
Also if you don't like DS or BT, OTR is an excellent choice that basically guarantees you 2 hits if you get tunneled. Additionally running these with say, sprint burst, means the killer has to catch up to you after being unhooked first.
The point is, people are running perks that are countered by tunneling then doing a "surprisepikachuface.jpg" when they get tunneled. But if they run perks that counter tunneling, then that probably wouldn't happen much, or if it did, it would probably cost the killer the match.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3354611#Comment_3354611
It is pretty wacky yo compare objectives in a asymetric game
Survivors objective is easier at the start and gets more difficult as the match progresses, and the opposite for killers
Survivors need to do 100% of their objectives to have more then one person escape, if the survivors make enough mistakes and get downed at the same time the killer can get a 4k with as little as 33% of the normal required hooks
If the killer doesn't spread his hooks to much then the game is usually lost by hook 6 or 7 when 2 survivors are dead
Putting the 2 side by side doesn't work. Survivors objective starts hard and then falters, killers objective can snowball very suddenly, they are not the same
This game is supposedly balanced around chases lasting 45 seconds. If that is the case, then the survivors should win 100% of the time because the math for that doesn't add up. It does once the first survivor is on the hook.
Survivors need to repair 5x 90 seconds of gens, or a total of 450 seconds. If a chase lasts 45 seconds, let's imagine the current scenario.
1st chase starts at the same time the other 3 survivors are on gens. 1st chase lasts 45 seconds. It takes the killer 2.7 seconds to deal with the hit cooldown, and 3 seconds to pick the survivor up, then another ~8 seconds to walk the survivor to the hook, and another 1.5 to hook them. This means each "chase" and down, and hook takes a total of: 45 + 2.7 + 3 + 8 + 1.5 = 60.2 seconds.
Survivors now have done 60.2 x 3 - 180.6 seconds of progress. Meaning they have 450 - 180.6 = 269.4 seconds of progress. Now, a survivor is on the hook. So in theory, there should be, 1 survivor on the hook, 1 going for the save, 1 getting chased, and another on generators. If a chase lasts 45 seconds, generally a save and a heal is going to take about that long. So you'll have 1 survivor on a generator for 45 seconds, and 3 survivors on generators for 15.2 seconds each. This amounts to a total of 90.6 seconds of progress per chase and hook. This means the kill gets ~3 more hooks from the initial chase, meaning they get 4 hooks.
Now you see how the math doesn't add up anymore.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3354483#Comment_3354483
If you had to rework it what would you want to do with it?
I guess my main issues with it are that it can put solos at more of a disadvantage especially when it comes to teammates’ auras (mainly when slugged - I also think Knockout should be reworked for the same reason), and yet in other situations it can often be pretty underwhelming especially if I’m playing with my friends.
I don't know, but the point is that the affect is extremely powerful against solos but pretty much useless against SWF. As such it is something that should be reworked.
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@BenOfMilam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3348620#Comment_3348620
I mean, I don't understand your problem then. You're playing a strong killer that you are clearly good at, with builds that work well with your playstyle.
How is CoH an issue? If you hit a survivor then leave them because they try to bring you to an undesirable side of the map, they go and heal at the circle. This is 32 seconds of time they are spending healing, which translates into 32 seconds of slowdown you have earned for yourself by landing that hit (not including how long it takes for them to physically get to the circle).
Am I missing something, or is it almost 3am and I need to go to bed?
CoH doesn't take 32 seconds, it takes 21 seconds. Additionally, the reality is that the amount of time a survivor spends healing themselves is less than the amount of time it took the killer to land that hit. That is the problem with CoH. At least with medkits, they have a limited amount of uses. But the boon is forever, even if you cleanse it. When 2 survivors heal each other, then it takes 32 seconds (16 total seconds, but 2 survivors) which tilts it more into the neutral zone.
The reality is, CoH and many other perks are just reasons why tunneling is the meta. Better to tunnel someone off the hook, and only deal with 1 health state, then to deal with dead hard, and 3 health states, and trying to spread pressure that just gets deleted with CoH.
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@YOURFRIEND said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3354411#Comment_3354411
In fairness to that poster, you said a lot of wacky stuff that needs to be individually considered so I can't really blame them for only addressing one thing you said.
Saying that it would be nice if survivors weren't able to complete 2/5 of their objective in the span that you complete 1/12 of yours is "wacky"? Saying that camping is unfun to deal with and should be addressed is wacky? Saying that tunneling is unfun to deal with and should be addressed is wacky? Responding to the OP and saying that 3-genning is unfun to deal with and should be addressed is wacky?
I think your response is wacky, but ok.
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@MrMooseyMan said:
I love the update to the survivor HUD icons. I think it's a great addition to the game, especially for those of us who solo queue. However, I believe that there's room for improvement when it comes to killer status effects.
In particular, I think that Oblivious should prevent you from seeing the "chase" indicator for any survivor other than the Obsession. It would add a new layer of challenge and urgency to the game, forcing survivors to be more alert when they're under the effects of Oblivious.
Similarly, Blindness should remove your ability to see what other survivors are working on, including gen progress. This would add another element of strategy to the game, making it more difficult for survivors to coordinate their efforts and forcing them to adapt to the situation at hand.
These status effects are often temporary, but I think that making these changes would add more depth to the game and make it even more challenging and exciting. What do you all think?
@sizzlingmario4 said:
No, this would completely undo what the status icons were supposed to do and just further separate solo and SWF again. Not a good idea.
This, i'd argue they should rework blindness too.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3354315#Comment_3354315
There are exactly zero killers where this is the ONLY viable strat.
Lets list them:
- Trapper
- Myers who isn't using insta kill addons
- Hag
- Doctor
- Ghost face
- Deathslinger
- Knight
- Skull merchant (soon to be)
- Pyramid head
- Sadako that doesn't want to play the unfun slug build
- Basically any killer that doesn't have someway to traverse the map in a meaninful way, or isn't nurse.
But i love how negative this community is. I basically gave you a list of things that probably should be fixed for the health of the game that often agree with what many say around tunneling, camping, 3-gen, etc. And yet somehow you latched onto some other thing i said?
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3354140#Comment_3354140
I mean, sure, but we're taking about things like holding a 3 gen from game start for 45 minutes.
The 'fundamental problem' in this case is a core game mechanic of base kit gen defense that is taken to an ultimate extreme. And it only works because the perks are strong enough to allow it to happen and be effective. The perks are the only part that can be nerfed here to make a difference, without going as drastic as removing gen kicking from the game entirely, which is stupid.
And before we inevitably get into a discussion concerning gen speeds... Both regression and progression items and perks need to be toned *down* at some point. Buffing either or both just leads to a more extreme variance in games, and I'd argue we're already at the point where the variance in games is too far to be healthy.
Edit: spelling
The problem is that there are many killers where 3 genning is the only viable strat. Obviously a nurse or blight doesn't care if they 3 gen or not, but tell that to the trapper.
That's not to say i don't think those killers should fixed, i think they should be fixed. I think the game would be in a much healthier state if:
- You didn't lose 2-3 gens in the first chase
- Tunneling wasn't possible (not nerfed, i mean impossible)
- Camping too
- Gen speeds were toned down a bit, or a secondary objective was added so the game slows down a bit
- We buff weaker killers.
- Rework nurse (as a nurse main i think it needs to be done)
- Deal with crazy addons (myers instakill)
- Deal with crazy items (commodius with BNP, crazy medkits, syringe etc.)
- We make it so both sides have more than 10 perks that are actually viable.
- 3 genning is dealt with in some way.
- Hexes weren't completely useless
- Boons that aren't CoH aren't useless.
- CoH is nerfed
- Fix crazy maps and infinites and shrink the large ones
- All of this is done in a way that doesn't require the survivors to hold m1 on a gen longer than they already do.
- and more but you get the point.
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@Bwsted said:
Weak sauce. This just encourages gen kick botting once again. The original nerf was bad, but I wish at least they'd stuck to their guns and maybe made other changes. Gotta still milk sale on those RE chapters I guess. So much for the meta shake up mindset.
If something that is unhealthy is made stronger by a perk, that perk shouldn't be the thing that should be changed. The fundamental problem should be changed. Making eruption useless was not the way to do this, because all it did was mean that there is one less perk that is any good, and we already have a problem (for both sides) that there are maybe half a dozen to a dozen perks that are any good.
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@Desteriaa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3353705#Comment_3353705
Once again someone shouldn’t have to change their whole build just to not get tunneled. Stop using deadhard as an excuse to tunnel.
Why shouldn't they? You are coming at it from a perspective that it is not fun to get tunneled, or it is toxic or whatever that might be. I'm saying that you are less likely to get tunneled, if you don't make tunneling you the most effective strategy for the killer to use to win. You want to make it so that tunneling will make them lose the game. If you make it so tunneling makes them win, all you are doing is tempting them to do it more.
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@Phantom_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3353705#Comment_3353705
Again? I responded to you once, and never will again seeing how it's a waste of time. That being said, I'm not reading all that. Bye.
I meant "again" as in, another person who didn't read what i wrote. But way to show that you are really mature here.
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@Riddlematt said:
Thanks for taking the time to do this.
No problem! I was gonna do it for myself anyway
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@Wexton said:
I've noticed a trend of people complaining about bloodlust a lot recently because it's somehow "overpowered", there's even an annoying gimmick accounts on Twitter that comments on every single post behaviour makes usually to just say to remove bloodlust. And I'm sitting here like, what's wrong with bloodlust? Like genuinely what is wrong with it, I can't think of one think that makes it worthy of being removed.
People will complain about anything nowadays it seems.
The game is balanced around a chase lasting 45 seconds on average. If someone is bloodlusting, even at level 1, that takes 15 seconds. If they are bloodlusting you to brute force something, they are likely hitting level 2 and 3 and if so, you (the survivor) won that chase, even if they down and hook you. This is a 1v4 game, not a 1v1 game.
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@VaporLion said:
I think Hex Totems are currently really bad and need some kind of rework or buff. Its not fun running them because once cleansed you have nothing to work with. So usually its better to just use perks that are permanently useable. A good example for that is Bamboozle instead of Hex: Crowd Control.
So my idea is to make that every time a survivor cleanses a Hex Totem they will be afflicted with the Exposed status effect for 60-ish seconds. It would create this situation where the killer at least can go like, you cleansed my hex, now youll pay for that. At that point i might consider running hex perks again.
And if that were to change there obviously has to be a rework for haunted ground.
This isn't the way to do it.
The problem with hexes is that they are supposed to be high risk high reward. But the reality is, they are not high reward. They have been constantly nerfed to be completely useless. Most of them aren't any good. The only one that is actually decent at this point is devour hope. And even that one really doesn't make much of a difference anymore.
What they need to do, is either make them high risk high reward again, or lower the risk. I am more inclined to think they should lower the risk. I would like to see them make it so, when a hex is in effect, all totems become lit, and the hex's strength is determined by how many totems are up. That way, if doesn't feel bad if the survivors all immediately spawn on top of your totem and you physically can't get there in time to get the totem. On the flip side, survivors don't end up in a situation where they just can't find the totem. If all totems are lit, they should have a much easier time at least weakening the effect.
Obviously this would require reworking some totems , but i think that would solve the issue of them being so RNG heavy, while also making them less punishing for survivors when they can't find the totem.
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@Phantom_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3353475#Comment_3353475
What are you even on about? Did you read what you yourself wrote? Because you're making zero sense.
What type of utter BS is it to think that killers SHOULD tunnel someone just because they MIGHT run Dead Hard, a perk that is for everyone to use? And how does someone who has just been unhooked have 3 health states??
There is no counter to a hard-tunneler. Most killers hit you instantly off hook, so that diminishes OTR. DS in its current state is an absolute joke of a perk. But to think that the best counter to DH is to tunnel... What has this player-base come to 😅😅😅
Again, you aren't reading what i wrote. I didn't say you should tunnel someone because they deserve it, or because it is toxic, or anything like that. What i am saying is, if someone is running dead hard, and i know they are, and i hook them. The most efficient tactics for me to beat that person, is to tunnel them off the hook, hit them intentionally, so they get deep wounds, then they can't use dead hard in that chase, then keep chasing them.
This means they get a speed boost, but i only have to hit them 1 more time to down them. If i don't tunnel them off the hook, then they get healed, and then the NEXT time i chase them, i have to hit them once, then hit them again and 50/50 that i can bait the dead hard, or they don't reach a pallet with it, giving them a 3rd health state. Then hit them a 3rd time to down them, before i repeat.
If i see them use dead hard, it makes way more sense to tunnel them right off the hook so they can't get any more use out of dead hard.
I'm saying, that if you are playing to win, and they have dead hard, tunneling hard counters that. Good killers realize this, so if you don't want to get hard tunneled and die. Run something like off the record, and sprint burst, that way, i can't hit you right off the hook, you sprint burst away, and you have OTR so you get that extra health state without having to use dead hard or time anything. Additionally, if you sprint burst away, i'm probably going to ignore you and go after the person who unhooked you, because i can probably very quickly land a hit on them, and then start a quick chase with them, rather than tunneling you when you just zoomed away from me and are probably on the other side of the map by now.
Tunneling and camping only work because survivors let it work.
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@jamally093 said:
So every time I enter chase with either killer or survivors my connection basically does this massive 180 and becomes garbage. Thing is I check my phone, PS4 and basically everything else that has a connection to the internet even other games and they seem to do fine it's only dbd.
Is this my connection, the other players connection or a mix of both?
Without seeing a video it would hard to see what you are talking about. But it seems to me that it wouldn't have anything to do with networking, because you are connected to the game just the same even if you aren't in chase. Maybe its FPS/frame drops you are getting? I know this game is pretty rough on consoles, not sure on PS4 though.
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@thrawn3054 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3353574#Comment_3353574
It's usually not hard to bait it.
Right, but if you do it wrong, you now deal with 3 health states. I'm saying that even if only 1 of them works, it is much better to tunnel the person out so they can't use it again. Additionally, it usually pisses off that survivor and they DC or play badly, or the rest of the team acts like seal team 6 and comes to help them with body blocks.
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@thrawn3054 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3353517#Comment_3353517
If DH wasn't so easy to bait I'd agree.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3353521#Comment_3353521
Fair enough though I have to disagree with your conclusion.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3353555#Comment_3353555
Bet games with you are a blast.
So you think it would be better to deal with 3 health states than 1? I suppose the other option is to completely ignore the survivor who has dead hard, but the problem is that it is the most used survivor perk by far, and you'd be hard pressed to find a game where at least 2-3 people aren't running it.
You could try outplaying the dead hard, but that basically puts you in a 50/50. Again, better to just tunnel the person out than deal with a 50/50 lf 3 health states.
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@Desteriaa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3353521#Comment_3353521
This post had nothing to do with deadhard somehow it’s brought i’m talking about the toxicity I just faced that drove me to uninstall not tunneling or camping so seriously your comment is irrelevant.
You talked about toxicity:
"I’ve been playing Survivor more than I have killer recently and It’s been nothing constant toxicity match to match. I get tunnelled out and camped which okay it’s a strategy I guess but getting that every single match when you didn’t do anything toxic is not right."
And then the very first example of that is "i get tunneled and camped which okay is a strategy but getting that every match is toxic"
I'm saying, it is not toxic, and you probably are making it the best play for the killer to camp and tunnel you. I am trying to help you by suggest ways to discourage killers from doing that, that actually cause them to lose them game if they try to do that. If you are talking about toxic chat or something, i'm all for reporting that. But if you are talking about camping and tunneling, you need to look in the mirror.
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@thrawn3054 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3353475#Comment_3353475
Seriously, you run Dead Hard means you deserve to be tunneled now?
You misread my post. I didn't say running dead hard means you "deserve to get tunneled" i'm saying, the best counter to dead hard, is actually to tunnel. If you proxy a bit, wait for the unhook, and then immediately hit the person right after they get unhooked, they get deep wounds, yeah they get a speed boost, but now you only need to deal with a 1 health state chase, instead of waiting for them to heal and getting a 3 health state chase.
People always say the same thing when i talk about why survivors get camped too. i'm not saying you deserve it, i'm saying its the best play.
