Reinami
Reinami
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- Reinami
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@Akito said:
It can't be that in solo q (main playerbase) people make 99% gates, preventing that people can escape the level, just because they are scared of the timer.
Even if mathematical or logical it's not needed to make them 99, especially if there is zero communication between survivor.
Please, increase the timer back to 3 minutes and give Killers the option to "kick" an exit gate.
I don't think the timer has ever been 3 minutes?
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@Sonzaishinai said:
Sometimes i feel these stats are specifically designed to troll the community.
MfT not being in the top 10 but also not been released untill halfway through the data collection is such a argueing bait.
That's a back and forth we're going to see in the forums for the next couple of months
My 2 cents it does kiiinda show MfT isn't as popular as people say it is but not enough to say for sure.
The fact that it is undeniably a strong perk with perks having a higher pickrate when they are released it is kinda hard to imagine more people picked spine chill in april to august then people picked MfT from july to august.
Then again Spine Chill could be super popular in some regions i'm not aware of so who knows
I don't disagree that it causes issues, but i think there is a bigger thing people are ignoring. Context is always important when you look at data like this. Part of it is the date range, and MFT not existing for half of it. The other part is that this is for ALL players and not broken down by MMR. So there's a few things to note:
1st, MFT didn't exist for half of the time that the data recorded there was collected.
2nd, MFT is tied to a new survivor.
3rd, this data covers ALL players, not just top MMR, as evidence by how high self-care is (come on now)
4th, actually look at all of the survivor perks in the top 10 and how you get them.
- Windows of Opportunity - The biggest outlier, but probably the most "noob friendly" perk in the game
- Adrenaline - A free perk that every survivor has access to
- Resilience - A free perk that every survivor has access to
- Lithe - A perk on Feng min, by far the most played survivor in the game (should be obvious based how many skins she gets)
- Self-Care - A perk on a survivor that every player has access to
- Sprint Burst - A perk on a survivor that every player has access to
- Prove Thyself - A perk on a survivor that every player has access to
- Dead Hard - A perk on a survivor that you are given access to after completing the tutorial
- Bond - A perk on a survivor that every player has access to
- Spine Chill - A free perk that every survivor has access to
Additionally, windows and Lithe both appeared in the shrine shortly before this date range happened, and once again during the date range the data was collected.
Almost all of these perks are accessible to players who haven't bought anything other than the base game. So if anything, the only interesting thing here is how much of an outlier windows of opportunity is.
In fact, the most useful statistic would be pick rates, broken down by MMR, and adjusted for OWNING those perks. Because i'd guess a ton of these "5 hour megs" don't have MFT to begin with.
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@Nun_So_Vile said:
Not even top 10
This argument is bad. You aren't looking at it in context.
1st, MFT didn't exist for half of the time that the data recorded there was collected.
2nd, MFT is tied to a new survivor.
3rd, this data covers ALL players, not just top MMR, as evidence by how high self-care is (come on now)
4th, actually look at all of the survivor perks in the top 10 and how you get them.
- Windows of Opportunity - The biggest outlier, but probably the most "noob friendly" perk in the game
- Adrenaline - A free perk that every survivor has access to
- Resilience - A free perk that every survivor has access to
- Lithe - A perk on Feng min, by far the most played survivor in the game (should be obvious based how many skins she gets)
- Self-Care - A perk on a survivor that every player has access to
- Sprint Burst - A perk on a survivor that every player has access to
- Prove Thyself - A perk on a survivor that every player has access to
- Dead Hard - A perk on a survivor that you are given access to after completing the tutorial
- Bond - A perk on a survivor that every player has access to
- Spine Chill - A free perk that every survivor has access to
Additionally, windows and Lithe both appeared in the shrine shortly before this date range happened, and once again during the date range the data was collected.
Almost all of these perks are accessible to players who haven't bought anything other than the base game. So if anything, the only interesting thing here is how much of an outlier windows of opportunity is.
In fact, the most useful statistic would be pick rates, broken down by MMR, and adjusted for OWNING those perks. Because i'd guess a ton of these "5 hour megs" don't have MFT to begin with.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
i think there is major skill issue if your unable to down survivors with play with your food 3 stacks and bloodlust 3. MFT is 3%. not 30%.
I mean, i agree with you there, but movement speed gains on killer are different than movement speed gains on survivor.
Imagine a scenario where the killer and survivor are running in an infinite straight line 32 meters apart. How long does it take the killer to catch the survivor as a 4.6 killer with survivor going at 4.0 m/s speed? The difference between that movement speed 0.6 per second. Meaning the killer gains 0.6 meters of distance per second. Lunge distance for killers is 6 meters if the survivor is standing still and 5 if they are moving. So. To close that 32 meter gap and get within 5 meters of the survivor, how long does it take?
Base movement speed (0.6 difference) = 45 seconds
Base movement speed with MFT (0.48 difference) = 56.25 seconds
Base movement speed with 1 stack PWYF (0.83 difference) = 32.53 seconds
So MFT Added 11.25 seconds to the chase
1 stack PWYF removed 12.47 seconds in the chase
Now for context, PWYF disappears after a single hit and requires you to drop chase from someone to gain it. Secondly, lets look at this same metric if killer gained 3% movement speed (the same as MFT)
3% faster killer (0.738 difference) = 36.58 seconds
Meaning that the killer GAINING 3% movement speed, reduces the chase time by 8.42 seconds
But the SURVIVOR gaining 3% movement speed, INCREASES the chase time by 11.25 seconds.
This is because movement speed gains are stronger on survivor than they are killer. For even better context? Just in a pure shift+w chase, MFT increases your chase time by 25%. Which is insane.
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@Rudjohns said:
Playing with your Food is in the game, and people can use it to hide a cheat too
Or maybe, people who cheat will cheat regardless of perks they are using
Play with your food is not the same thing. It has a specific trigger that is easier said than done, and goes away when you hit things. MFT you get by getting chased. And it definitely is making subtle cheaters come out more. I generally get a few of them a day now, i know how fast 3% movement speed is after 3k hours. And on the games where i play survivor, when run MFT, how many survivors is see that just run slightly faster than me? It is insane how often it is happening right now.
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@Alen_Starkly said:
A week ago it was there, and now I can't find it. Did it get deleted? :x Does anyone have the link, if it's still there?
@For_The_People said:
Don’t know why it’s not pinned anymore but I found it got you :)
credit to @Reinami who I believe compiles these
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/385062/saving-bloodpoints-tome-16-level-1#latest
Yeah, someone beat me to in on the one this level because i was busy with work. But i do them all as well so if you bookmark that thread i'll update it generally the morning that level 2 comes out.
Not sure why the other one got unpinned. It happens from time to time though.
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@coco_shotz said:
On the forums and in playerbases I've noticed that most people have one sided games when playing dbd. Survivors have a streak of killers who get 4k and killers have games where survivors sweat into a 4 man escape and I'm curious as to how this happens in the same game we are all playing. Is there any actual "fixes" to this? Is there really an issue to begin with? I'm curious to hear what anyone else has to say about this topic.
The biggest problem there is matchmaking. Everyone generally agrees that at the tippy top of this game, best players in the world, this game is heavily survivor sided. There is a reason that most tournaments impose rules against the SURVIVORS such as perk and item limitations. Killers on the other side, tend to only have addon limitations (no reds, for example) or like, no tombstone myers, simply due to how dumb they can be, but perks are all fair game.
Now, when you look at that, you'd think that killers at top mmr would never win. But now you look at the matchmaking itself and you realize the problem. Lets say someone is 2k MMR (really really good, by default players in an elo system, which mmr is typically based on, start at 1200). Matchmaking caps your MMR to 1400 for matchmaking purposes. This means that players (on both sides) could be 2k rating, but be matched with teammates or opponents who are 1400, or vice versa, be a 1400 player, matched with 2k mmr players.
The reality is, very few players are at that top level, but the ones that are, generally don't play each other, they play "randoms". That is why as a killer, 1 out of every 10-20 games or so, you'll get that SWF kill squad that people talk about. And survivors will run into that "God nurse".
For context, the point of elo and mmr systems, is to match people with similar ranking, because at the end, the system is a probability calculation. The idea is, looking at 2 people with ratings, what are their odds of winning? Well, you can imagine if a 2k killer went against 4 2k survivors they would (in theory, assuming game is perfectly balanced) win 50% of the time. But, since you can be matched with people as low as 1400, what is their probability of winning?
Well, a 2k player, will have a 98.2% chance of winning against a 1400 player. And therein lies the problem. If you are on the upper end of the spectrum, say, a 2k rated player, you are probably going to win 90% of your games, and the game is going to seem like a joke. If you are a 1400 rated player, now you will see because you can be matched against 1400 players, but also 2k players, your win rate will not 50%, but somewhere much lower than that.
This is most obvious as a killer, because survivors have teammates to deal with. If you queue up in solo queue as a 2k mmr survivor for example. You could get matched with 1400 mmr teammates, and a 2k mmr killer. And that match will be a complete slaughter. So because survivors tend to need to play as a team, a single 2k mmr survivor can't carry the team.
This results in the following for most matches:
High skill killers win 90% of their games
High skill survivors in SWF win 90% of their games
High skill survivors in solo queue win less than 50% of their games
Low(er) skill killers (1400 mmr range) win less than 50% of their games.
Low(er) skill survivors (1400 mmr range) win less than 50% of their games.
This is why the game seems like a complete crapshoot most of the time and why you see these one sided (killer always beats me, or survivor always beats me) posts. Because they are coming from the players who are on that lower bound of 1400 mmr. Similarly, you'll see really good content creators like Otz and Scott Jund (although lately even otz is speaking about the games imbalance, probably because he is getting more into the comp scene with hens and ayrun and such). You'll see them win basically every game they play as killer, because they are at the top end of that scale. And then they will talk about how the game is "fine" for killers because those really good survivors are rare (which, their rarity is true.)
Then you have other content creators like tru3ta1ent who generally recognize this type of thing, and point out these things, but then the community will call them out or talk about how the game is balanced, or how "it should be balanced around average players" and say how dumb or OP "X" thing is, because they are on that lower end of the spectrum.
That's not to say that the lower end of that spectrum of 1400 mmr is some kind of bad thing and the players are bad or something, far from it. Even 1400 elo in chess for example puts you in the top 72% of all players, which is way above average. For comparison though, 2k rating would put you at better than 96.94% of the players. But the point is, you wouldn't pit a 1400 elo chess player against say, Magnus Carlsen (the highest rated chess player at 2882), and expect them to have a good time or even think that the game is fair at that point
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3504747#Comment_3504747
He’s at the highest MMR, unless you’re suggesting that he smurfs. His survivor games are typically much worse than his killer games—as in he loses when he plays survivor waaay more than he does when he plays killer. And he’s a good survivor player.
You aren't aware of how matchmaking works i assume then? Matchmaking caps MMR for matchmaking purposes (although MMR can go above the cap). Last is saw people found out that MMR caps at 1400 for matchmaking purposes.
While i don't doubt that otz is probably in the 2k MMR range, that doesn't mean he only plays against people with 2k MMR. for matchmaking purposes, it puts him at 1400 MMR. So he can play one match with all 2k MMR players, and then the next match he gets matched against a bunch of 1401 MMR players, they are treated the same. The reason for this is because there are so few players at that high MMR, that the matches would literally take like 30+ minutes to find a game. So they cap it.
For context, for those who are interested in Elo calculations (Which MMR is just a derivation on the Elo system that chess uses). It works by mathematically calculating the probability of a player winning based on their rank, and the opponents rank. So in theory if all players were equal, you have a 50% chance of winning. But assuming 2k MMR against a 1400 MMR? The 2k MMR player (mathematically speaking) has a probability of 98.2% chance of winning.
So yeah, i don't doubt that otz is super high MMR, but that doesn't mean he's only playing against good players.
And on the survivor side, this works against him as well. If he is a 2k survivor, he could be matched with 1400 mmr teammates, which drastically changes the outcome of the game as survivor is more of a team based role. You'll see this difference when he plays with hens and ayrun where they just bully the killer endlessly vs when he plays solo queue.
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@bearr_trap said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3504743#Comment_3504743
Not Otz using Made For This + Hope.
To be fair, the clip was from the PTB where he was testing stuff out. But i don't disagree with this. Generally these streamers talk about how unbalanced things are, then go right around and start using it. But i don't blame them, if you are playing to win, you should use the most broken stuff.
https://sirlin.net/ptw -
@thisislastyearsmodel said:
Otzdarva also got 50 wins in a row as both Trapper and Clown, using only one add-on (brown gloves on Trapper) out of four slots.
Is it frustrating sometimes, sure. But killers have just as many things that can make it frustrating for survivors as well.
Otzdarva also plays this game as a job and went against average queue survivors. Same can be said about SWF teams that queue up in regular matchmaking like team eternal. They'll also get 50+ wins in a row just messing around.
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@Sadako_Best_Girl said:
This is only true for sweat squads and you know damn well those are rare sights that you will only see in tournaments.
Just because it's rare, doesn't make it good.
https://clips.twitch.tv/AwkwardMildFerretPipeHype-0ehry4t4zExHh7Bo@biggybiggybiggens said:
Only true for SWFs. Playing Dead By Daylight as a solo Survivor is the most miserable experience in any game I've ever played.. :/
True, don't you think the game would be more fun for EVERYONE if that was dealt with? Wouldn't it be a great world if SWF/top tier survivors were nerfed, and we buffed low skill survivors or vice versa for killer? Maybe if camping didn't exist, and tunneling didn't exist, and there was no such thing as a god pallet? And every loop was fair? And every loop was mindgameable? And you couldn't just predrop every pallet? And there were actually more pallets (or maybe even pallets respawn?!) so dead zones didn't get created too quickly? And that you couldn't just shift + w to win?
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
It's clear her power is so busted and there is no fair counters against her.
They can nerf her for million times but nothing will change.
They can take her all add-ons but nothing will change.
They can make her perkless killer to play but nothing will change.
Because this killer is ignoring everything core game has. No respect to pallets, ignore walls, make vaults unsafe. And ofcourse insane map mobility as well.
You nerfed Dead Hard to ground because obviously it was so op. But yet this killer is still in game after years. I think op things deserves to be nerfed only if survivors has it.
Based on the last time they showed us statistics, she is fine:
Now, i personally don't think she is fine, an i'm a nurse main. But the same people who complain about nurses, will tell you that SWF kill squads with people like hens and ayrun are also "fine" because they are super rare. And this data indicates that the "god nurses" that people run into that show off how much of a problem she is, are also rare. And since in the minds of this community that makes it "fine" then she is "fine"
Despite that though, i think that is incorrect. Just because it is rare, doesn't mean it is "fine" and i'll leave otz here to explain that.
https://clips.twitch.tv/AwkwardMildFerretPipeHype-0ehry4t4zExHh7Bo -
@JustAnotherNewbie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3504548#Comment_3504548
I got you fam.
Pretty fresh thread, just scour the replies and you'll find the ones about Blastmine, enjoy! Blastmine is also mentioned in the first post.
keyword "credible"
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3504529#Comment_3504529
I'm not quite sure what you think you're saying here, but if you're trying to say that MFT is in fact used 25% of the time in line with you anecdote, you're wrong.
If it did have a 25% pick rate, then it WOULD be in the released stats, showing a roughly 12% use rate and sitting around number 7.
That fact that it's not on there at all shows that it cannot have more than a 12% absolute pick rate, even with it's surge of use right after release.
My point is that, assuming its used even 25% of the time, which would make it go from being brand new to being the 2nd most used perk for all survivors, it still wouldn't show it being number 2, it would only be number 5. In reality, its usage is probably high, but not THAT high, so it is very plausible for it to not appear in the top 10.
The other point, which i think is the far more important one, is that this statistic is showing ALL survivors and is not broken down by MMR, or who owns what perk. The more relevant information is what i posted, but so its more clear i'll post it here:
If you look at all of the perks BHVR showed in the top 10, you'll see a very obvious pattern:
- Windows of Opportunity - The biggest outlier, but probably the most "noob friendly" perk in the game
- Adrenaline - A free perk that every survivor has access to
- Resilience - A free perk that every survivor has access to
- Lithe - A perk on Feng min, by far the most played survivor in the game (should be obvious based how many skins she gets)
- Self-Care - A perk on a survivor that every player has access to
- Sprint Burst - A perk on a survivor that every player has access to
- Prove Thyself - A perk on a survivor that every player has access to
- Dead Hard - A perk on a survivor that you are given access to after completing the tutorial
- Bond - A perk on a survivor that every player has access to
- Spine Chill - A free perk that every survivor has access to
What it shows is that the top 10 used perks, are almost entirely comprised of perks that every survivor has access to with the base game. The only exception being windows of opportunity, and lithe. Windows is considered a very noob friendly perk, and lithe is from the most played survivor in the game (outside of probably the free ones) which should be clear because she gets a new skin every 20 seconds.
And i think the fact that self-care is still number 5 despite it probably being one of the worst perks in the game makes this point pretty clear.
Additionally, based on shrine times, both of these perks appeared in the shine 2 times this year, once very recently, and once each around march/april.
What the data IS showing is that, "a lot of people tend to use the free perks" which shouldn't be much of a surprise. And as someone mentioned, usage doesn't dictate if something is too strong or not when looking at total player base. When you looked at dead hard, it had a 75% usage.... at really high mmr, but in lower mmrs it had very little usage:
This was the chart they showed. You can see that the VAST majority of the players (based on line thickness) are around the 1100 - 1500 MMR range. Which has a range of dead hard being 30% - 50% usage. But it tops way up to 75% usage at top mmr.
Given that MFT is so new, i'd imagine the chart for it would be quite similar as higher MMR players tend to be more invested in the game and likely will have all the new content that comes out. Whereas lower level players are probably newer at the game and in general would have less content.
Again, i say, the most interesting stats they could give us, is this exact same thing, but normalize it for what perks the player actually owns. So, among players that own MFT, how many of them use it. Rather than just a blanket, among all players, who uses MFT.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3504561#Comment_3504561
The point is, if perk is really busted you will see pickrate is so high on stats. This was fact for Dead Hard. It was very busted perk and it was almost in all matches.
MfT has no case like that. It's sure seen in trials but it's not even top 10. If it was busted like some people are making it, you would see it in almost all trials. Like Dead Hard.
I don't know what to say more lol.
@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3504565#Comment_3504565
I find it funny you are still ignoring my post.
Let me shorten it for you:
The other thing you need to factor in, which i think is far more important. Look how high self-care is on that list. With the nerf to self-healing and the fact that it takes nearly a full 46 seconds to heal yourself with self-care. Self-care is probably one of the worst perks in the game. Wouldn't you agree? And with that, it is STILL there as NUMBER 5?! This is because they are looking at pick rates as a whole. This means, when i get matched against survivors with 1k+ hours as i regularly do because i have so many hours as well. It is counting my games, just as much as it is counting the games of someone who has played, for 5 hours.
What would be MUCH more interesting, is if they gave us the same statistics, but also broke them out for MMR like they typically do. And what i find interesting, is that they DIDN'T. The last time they gave us data on kill rates, they broke it down by "All MMR" and "High MMR" and we could look at those. Yet they didn't here for some reason.
So, now that you realize it is taking into account ALL games, lets look at which perks ARE at the top of the list here, and think about it for 5 seconds.
- Windows of Opportunity - The biggest outlier, but probably the most "noob friendly" perk in the game
- Adrenaline - A free perk that every survivor has access to
- Resilience - A free perk that every survivor has access to
- Lithe - A perk on Feng min, by far the most played survivor in the game (should be obvious based how many skins she gets)
- Self-Care - A perk on a survivor that every player has access to
- Sprint Burst - A perk on a survivor that every player has access to
- Prove Thyself - A perk on a survivor that every player has access to
- Dead Hard - A perk on a survivor that you are given access to after completing the tutorial
- Bond - A perk on a survivor that every player has access to
- Spine Chill - A free perk that every survivor has access to
Almost all of these perks are accessible to players who haven't bought anything other than the base game. So if anything, the only interesting thing here is how much of an outlier windows of opportunity is.
In fact, the most useful statistic would be pick rates, broken down by MMR, and adjusted for OWNING those perks. Because i'd guess a ton of these "5 hour megs" don't have MFT to begin with.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3504561#Comment_3504561
The point is, if perk is really busted you will see pickrate is so high on stats. This was fact for Dead Hard. It was very busted perk and it was almost in all matches.
MfT has no case like that. It's sure seen in trials but it's not even top 10. If it was busted like some people are making it, you would see it in almost all trials. Like Dead Hard.
I don't know what to say more lol.
I find it funny you are still ignoring my post.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3504548#Comment_3504548
You asked one evidence and they showed it? You did not ask evidence from specific person, you just asked evidence. What's problem with their evidence?
And yes, some people complained about old Blast Mine and they were even happy for nerf/bug fix whatever it was.
I mean, i saw a thread the other day of a survivor complaining that demogorgon is OP. Are we really going to listen to what "Random player X" says? The point is, this is not some mainstream idea, and the OP is trying to play it off like it is.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3504483#Comment_3504483
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/FUMYBA2S96IT/image.png
Does everyone remember how the stats for Dead Hard used to work, where the usage was almost 75% at top MMR, but it was drastically lower at average MMR? A perk can be overpowered at high MMR, but not as good at average MMR.
Made for this might be in a similar situation. I personally see Made for this more often than any other exhaustion perk, and this is a true statement regardless of whether or not it Lithe is more popular when the entire DBD population is combined together.
I would also like to +1 this, by showing you some recent videos from some high level DBD streamers.
Hens using it every game - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-5vuT6O2Dg
Otz using it every game - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoKn-C44Y14
Otz playing against a team with perk restrictions still running it - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5G0rOFsHiw&t=23m33s
Ayrun running it every game - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KS_GrVi7Hjs
Tru3ta1ent running it every game - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmSf3uJ2po4
You'll notice that when these content creators aren't just making a video for the fun of it like doing a specific challenge or highlighting some specific perk combo, they are using it.
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@EmmaFrostyEyes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3504537#Comment_3504537
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/343527/can-a-dev-explain-why-blastmine-was-nerfed there. “Maybe the devs decided to play killer for once and realized how annoying this perk is. It's so annoying getting DSed over and over in a trial just trying to get a whopping 2.5% regression and an overcharge proc” there is your proof
Riiiight, so your evidence is someone who has been banned on the forums, and you also had to go a year back? Funny.
But my point wasn't just "oh you showed me one, guess i got owned". My point is, you'll find it hard to find anyone with any CREDIBILITY actually complaining about blast mine.
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@EmmaFrostyEyes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3504427#Comment_3504427
When blastime first got nerfed, there were killer mains saying that it was justified and complaining about the old blastmine
Show me one.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3504432#Comment_3504432
So? 51 days is good enough to make it top 10.
There was a lot people claimed they are seeing 4 x MfTs every match. If they were correct, we could see MfT on list but obviously it's not true lol.
MfT is probably will up to top 10 but it will never out SB or Lithe.
Alright, so lets do some math here. So, lets say during the course of this time period, there were 100,000 games played. So for 50,000 games MFT did not exist and for 50,000 games it did. (its not quite 50% but makes the math a bit easier) Lets look at the percentage of the perks then. Now, there are 4 survivors per game, so lets take those percentages and look at the first 50,000 games and how many survivors of the total 200k used these perks.
first 50,000 games
- Windows of Opportunity - 29% [58,000]
- Adrenaline - 22% [44,000]
- Resilience - 19% [38,000]
- Lithe - 17% [32,000]
- Self-care (lol) - 13% [26,000]
- Sprint Burst - 13% [26,000]
- Prove Thyself - 11% [22,000]
- Dead Hard - 10% [20,000]
- Bond - 9% [18,000]
- Spine Chill - 6% [12,000]
- Made for this - 0% [0] {did not exist yet}
Now, anecdotally, i see probably see made for this in every single game i play lately, so i'd guess at least 1 survivor is always running it. Now, we can assume that the pick rates for these top perks didn't change much for the next 50k games, so we'll use the same percentages for those.
Now lets look at the next 50,000 games:
- Windows of Opportunity - 29% [58,000]
- Adrenaline - 22% [44,000]
- Resilience - 19% [38,000]
- Lithe - 17% [32,000]
- Self-care (lol) - 13% [26,000]
- Sprint Burst - 13% [26,000]
- Prove Thyself - 11% [22,000]
- Dead Hard - 10% [20,000]
- Bond - 9% [18,000]
- Spine Chill - 6% [12,000]
- Made for this (1 survivor per game) - 25% [50,000]
Now if we add those totals up.
- Windows of Opportunity = 116,000
- Adrenaline = 88,000
- Resilience = 76,000
- Lithe = 64,000
- Self-care (lol) = 52,000
- Sprint Burst = 52,000
- Prove Thyself = 44,000
- Dead Hard = 40,000
- Bond = 36,000
- Spine Chill = 24,000
- Made for this (1 survivor per game) = 50,000
That would barely put it at number 5, knocking spine chill off. And this is assuming that it has had a pick rate of 25% since it came out, which would put it as the number 2 perk. Generally, when i see survivors running it, they are running it with resilience. So i'd assume its pick rate, is around the same as resilience, which would then put it number 8 just above bond. And resilience is the number 3 perk there.
The other thing you need to factor in, which i think is far more important. Look how high self-care is on that list. With the nerf to self-healing and the fact that it takes nearly a full 46 seconds to heal yourself with self-care. Self-care is probably one of the worst perks in the game. Wouldn't you agree? And with that, it is STILL there as NUMBER 5?! This is because they are looking at pick rates as a whole. This means, when i get matched against survivors with 1k+ hours as i regularly do because i have so many hours as well. It is counting my games, just as much as it is counting the games of someone who has played, for 5 hours.
What would be MUCH more interesting, is if they gave us the same statistics, but also broke them out for MMR like they typically do. And what i find interesting, is that they DIDN'T. The last time they gave us data on kill rates, they broke it down by "All MMR" and "High MMR" and we could look at those. Yet they didn't here for some reason.
So, now that you realize it is taking into account ALL games, lets look at which perks ARE at the top of the list here, and think about it for 5 seconds.
- Windows of Opportunity - The biggest outlier, but probably the most "noob friendly" perk in the game
- Adrenaline - A free perk that every survivor has access to
- Resilience - A free perk that every survivor has access to
- Lithe - A perk on Feng min, by far the most played survivor in the game (should be obvious based how many skins she gets)
- Self-Care - A perk on a survivor that every player has access to
- Sprint Burst - A perk on a survivor that every player has access to
- Prove Thyself - A perk on a survivor that every player has access to
- Dead Hard - A perk on a survivor that you are given access to after completing the tutorial
- Bond - A perk on a survivor that every player has access to
- Spine Chill - A free perk that every survivor has access to
So if anything, the only interesting thing here is how much of an outlier windows of opportunity is.
In fact, the most useful statistic would be pick rates, broken down by MMR, and adjusted for OWNING those perks. Because i'd guess a ton of these "5 hour megs" don't have MFT to begin with.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3504437#Comment_3504437
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3504440#Comment_3504440
I thought killers, like survivors, had to participate in normal gameplay and BHVR considers that advancing the game. Is that rule mon-applicative to the killer role..?
Slugging a survivor is not against the rules, holding the game hostage is. And that is defined as doing something that prevents the game from progressing, such as body blocking in a corner. The game was still progressing, because eventually you would bleed out.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3504419#Comment_3504419
No, the killer doesn't have to play like that. Knew it wouldn't take long for this take to pop up.
Imagine thinking that someone should have to change how they play just because your team decided to be toxic dickbags and DC and leave you hanging.
I think you are missing the point here, you teammates were the problem, not the killer. I think your teammates should get BANNED for doing that, and not just for a few minutes. Like days, they should be banned for DAYS for doing that. And if they make a habit of it? Ban them permanently, i guarantee after a few people get permabanned for DCing a lot, or killing themselves or afking, it'll stop real fast.
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@SleepyLunatic said:
They added a feature where you get a notification if someone you reportet is getting banned.
Ofc this doesnt work if you report everyone who is simply better than you..
imagine thinking that with the release of MFT it isn't super common for survivors to run it, but somehow be running a LITTLE bit faster than 3%. Almost like they are running, i dunno maybe like 5% faster. Just a LITTLE bit more. I literally see this at least 10-20% of the time at this point. Subtle cheating is out of control and they use MFT as an excuse. But after 3k hours, i KNOW what 3% faster looks like and i'll tell you, around 10-20% of my games, that ain't it.
It's even funnier as a survivor when i run MFT, and i see another survivor and they just flat out run faster than me somehow magically.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
This perk gets a lot hate. And if we trust complains, it's everywhere.
But now we got official perk usestats. And MfT is not on list.
Nerfed Self-Care is here.
Butchered Dead Hard is here.
But guess what? MfT is not! It was so obvious tho, Lithe and SB are much petter perks and i am not surprised both perks has high pickrates.
Good job looking at timelines, made for this was release on june 13th, and this data goes back to april 27 all the way to today. So MFT didn't even exist for half of the time this chart shows.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
Ive seen a lot of people complaining on the forums that Blast Mine is too strong now, and I personally cannot agree at all.
I would like to just make some counter arguments to some arguments against Blast Mine Ive seen going around...
"Blast Mine has 0 counterplay..."
- Blast Mine is countered by a wide variety of Killers, addons, and perks. Some of the perks in the current meta actually do an amazing job at countering it. SH: Pain Resonance and Jolt are prime examples.
- With Sadako being more used, people have found out that Hex: Ruin is a good pick for her since it passively regresses Generators while people deliver tapes. This is just another prime example of a Killer making use of a niche perk that just counters Blast Mine.
"I should not be forced to play a certain thing to counter a perk..."
- If you dont like flashlights, you use Lightborn. If you dont like stuns, you use Enduring. I dont see this as any different. The game provides you with the tools to counter something you dont like and you would rather ignore it?
"One Survivor running this perk is fine, but all four Survivors using this is too much..."
- That is 4 perk slots basically wasted over stunning the Killer when they kick a Generator. I would rather see 4 Blast Mines than 4 MFT + Hopes or whatever meta stuff people use every match.
- I know some people will mention SWF but it's literally Blast Mine so who cares.
"But it counters Pop Goes The Weasel sometimes..."
- You know what else counters PGTW? Repressed Alliance. Repressed Alliance HARD COUNTERS PGTW, yet literally no one complains about it. But as soon as the most mild inconvenience happens, it sudden means Blast Mine must be nerfed? Really?
- If you see people DO have Blast Mine, the stun is rather short to begin with, so just play around the fact that they have Blast Mine by trying to reach the Generator as soon as possible.
"It requires too little effort with no downside..."
- This is the same patch that we literally got For The People + Buckle Up and you complain about Blast Mine of all things.
- There are downsides; if the Killer does not kick the Generator, you either have to wait until the Generator is completed or until the two minute timer is full depleted before you are able to even work on getting another Blast Mine.
- If the Killer brings entirely passive regression perks, and does not kick a single Generator, youve wasted a perk slot. This perk is basically like Hope, you have to have certain conditions align to get value, which is what the perk is balanced around.
I play a lot of Survivor, but I also play a lot of Killer, and even after the Blast Mine buff, I never see it enough to really justify hating it, because this perk is not meta, it's not even strong. If anything, I encourage people to bring it, since it to me feels like a waste of a perk slot just to do something moderately funny.
I just really wish people didnt crumble and complain anytime there is a slight inconvenience since it really has harmed the balance of the game for both Survivor and Killer.
I have literally never seen anyone complain about blast mine, and i think this thread is just trying to stir people up for no reason. Can we nerf FTP + Buckle up and made for this now?
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@Melinko said:
This really brings up the question of is it time to show both sides who they are facing in the lobby. Yes, I understand this would create a longer cue for certain killers but I'd much rather wait longer than have the match end in moments due to DCs and hook opt outs.
Maybe I'm in the minority here but rolling over 4 people with 4 gens still up isn't really exciting. The back and forth and chase and hunt is what is exciting.
And then certain people who like to play certain killers would just never get to play a game because everyone would dodge.
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@averagemikaelamain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3500690#Comment_3500690
Are you trying to make the argument that efficient SWF/Coordinated teams are as big and prominent of an issue as tunneling and camping? I only ever hear really salty people who say they go against 5 trillion MMR SWFs most of their game and it's usually when they're bad.
I'm going to leave otz here to explain this for me, because he does it far better than i can.
https://clips.twitch.tv/AwkwardMildFerretPipeHype-0ehry4t4zExHh7Bo -
@Alice_pbg said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3502910#Comment_3502910
I meant more as in, what music?
They have a few sounds they disabled for myers that they could potentially use.
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@Alice_pbg said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3502893#Comment_3502893
lullaby? what lullaby? his chase music?
the stalk runs out cause he was made very early on...
That's what i'm saying add a lullaby. Lullaby in DBD is a mechanic, not just huntress. For example the following killers have a "lullaby"
- Sadako
- Trickster
- Huntress
- Freddy
- Twins
By their nature:
- Lullabies are non-directional.
- Lullabies have a fixed, unalterable range.
- Lullabies are not affected by Unlockables that influence the Terror Radius.
- Lullabies are not suppressed by the Undetectable
- Currently, the only way to suppress a Killer's Lullaby is by entering a Snowman
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@Star99er said:
I kinda think he needs the treatment that Ghostface recently got a couple patches ago with some basekit & add-on buffs. Maybe reduce the amount of Stalk required to reach tier 2 & 3 evil within? Something to help him not be so slow early game would be the right way to go about it imo. What do y’all think?
My dream changelist for him
- Addon pass (remove tomestone pieces, or heavily nerf them so they are only usable at endgame or something)
- Rework each tier to actually be unique and powerful in their own ways.
- Tier 1
- 4.6 m/s movement speed (normal movement speed)
- Normal vaulting speed
- Normal pallet breaking speed
- Reduced Lunge
- Undetectable
- 16 meter lullaby
- Takes 10 seconds to tier up at max range, down to 5 at close range
- Tier 2
- 4.8 m/s movement speed (faster than normal)
- Normal Lunge
- Basekit 5 stack fireup
- Basekit 25% enduring
- Basekit mini-pop on gen break of 5%
- 16 meter terror radius
- 16 meter lullaby
- Takes 16 seconds to tier up at max range, down to 8 at close range
- Tier 3
- 4.4 m/s movement speed (slower than normal)
- Longer Lunge (basekit coup)
- Stuns last twice as long but the pallet is automatically broken.
- His lunge can break pallets
- All survivors are exposed
- Basekit 5 stack fireup
- Basekit Ruin effect
- 32 meter terror radius
- No lullaby
- tiering up to tier 3, puts you in a locked animation for 2 seconds.
- Lasts 60 seconds
- Tier 1
- Give survivor some kind of onscreen element to more easily see what tier the killer is in, but only show it after the first tier up.
- Leaving tier 3 now puts you into tier 1.
- Rework mirror addons to give you some benefits but not be able to leave that tier. So you have one for tier 1, 2 and 3, that do some cool or negative thing, but make it so you cannot leave that tier.
- Fix the stalk mechanic so you can still stalk people if they have part of them showing.
- Give a bonus to stalking more than one survivor
- Remove the cap on stalking survivors, why is there a cap on his power?
- When not stalking for 5 seconds, you slowly lose your stalk such that you lose 100% of the stalk after 30 seconds of not stalking.
You would need to do number tweaks on each tier at that point, but that is the general gist.
Tier 1: You are stealthy, move normally, but not TOO stealthy, because you have a lullaby, in general, the goal is to get out of it, but you could have scratched mirror to do some interesting things with tier 1
Tier 2: You are less stealthy (no longer undetectable), but you move faster, vault faster, break faster, and overall are just faster.
Tier 3: You are way less stealthy, and you move slower, but your lunge is really long (like coup long). You can vault faster. However, with no lullaby you can synergize with undetectable perks like trail of torment. You also break pallets way faster. Basically, you become an unstoppable juggernaut, albeit a little bit slower than normal. But, you can be stunned by pallets harder, at the cost of breaking them. Your lunge can break pallets very quickly, encouraging survivors to either hide, or to try and pallet stun you.
General gist is to encourage using the different tiers in more strategic ways, while eliminating the "99 my expose and sneak up on a survivor with 0 counterplay andimmediate down them) while making his "power" more powerful. Basically hes just a buff m1 killer.
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@KingDeathly said:
Just curious cause I'm trying to get more into getting better with killers, and want to see which killers everyone mainly plays. At the moment I wouldn't say I'm very good with any killer,but I find huntress to be the funnest killer for me. I'm trying to find a second killer to bounce between.
I claim to be a "Nurse main" but don't play her that often unless i want to win. But she's definitely my best.
In general i swap around periodically and play at least a game or 2 a day in no particular order with:
- Pinhead
- Sadako
- Skull Merchant
- Pig
- Legion
- Nurse
My most fun to play being the new sadako and skull merchant, focusing on a chasing style. Although skull merchant its hard to get games because people usually immediately DC, but when they quickly realize i'm not 3-genning the game goes much more smoothly.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
I just noticed this in my games.
Killers are usually taking hit on them and then leaving for real players. I found this kinda weird.
Try playing a game with 4 bots, and play like, trapper or something, and never use your power. Then try and down a bot and hook them. They have literal wall hacks, and mindgaming them is impossible. So you just have to brute force pallets, or you have to exploit their AI so they run into the edge of the map and get hit and do nothing.
Better to just go after the players and ignore the bots, especially since they tend to run away and get scared if your terror radius is near them, they'll hop off the gen. So they don't need to be chased.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3501705#Comment_3501705
no way. 1 gen is 90 seconds. hook are 2 minutes. you can do max of 3 gens. the walking time for survivor in dbd is significant when accounting hook camping.
So during that chase, that the killer did to get the survivor on the hook to camp them, your entire team didn't do anything?
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@shalo said:
"From any Biopod, Slipstream tag 4 different Survivors."
So, all 4 Survivors from the one Biopod, right? Or do I just have to tag all 4 at some point from Biopods?
I think BHVR made a mistake putting Singularity in the Tome, players now realise how much work for little reward he is.
Basically, tag each survivor using a camera, doesn't have to be the same one. Keyword "any". Assumption is that later there will be a challenge to do a similar thing from a single bipod.
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@leviivel said:
I kid you not Wraith is probably my least favourite killer to face besides spirit (for her it’s due to accessibility issue’s).
Wraith is the exact same every match, always bring the strongest add-ons (either silent bell, faster uncloak or faster kick during cloak), cause he’s pathetic without them. Always cloak after hit, matches drag on for a while because of hit and run.
most wraith players I meet tunnel aswell because their character so bad they’re forced to play like that or they just get gen rushed.
can we pls do smth with Wraith (and a few of the older/outdated killers) after ur done solving/reworking Twins and Merchant? Because he’s just a less interesting and fun to face Sadako atm.
Let me ask you a better question.
What killers do you LIKE going against?
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3501596#Comment_3501596
STBFL saves significantly more time to catch a survivor holding W than MFT provides a survivor. Interesting how only one of them has been whined about endlessly over the last month.
STBFL also requires you to build up stacks, and requires you to ignore a specific survivor (or use an m2 on them if you have one). By the time you got your 8 stacks, you have downed 4 survivors and likely completed around 1/4 of your objective.
MFT requires you to be injured, which basically just means (get chased by the killer) and you get it for free.
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@PogbertChamperson said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3501631#Comment_3501631
You do know that some killers like to stay near the hook right?
Why are you unhooking against killers who are camping? That is quite literally the reason camping works. Do gens instead, it takes a full 2 minutes to die on hook, plenty of time for the other 3 of you to get 4-5 gens done.
Even if the killer immediately camped their first hook, the first hook should have taken them at least 45 seconds to do, and that's if the person is bad at chase. So of the 450 seconds of gen progress needed, your team should have around 135 seconds of progress. Let's be generous and assume you only have 100 seconds of progress. Thats 350 seconds left. Even if it takes you 30 seconds to realize the killer is camping, and another 15 to find a gen. 2 of your teammates will be on a gen for that full 30 + 15 seconds, and you'll be on one for 75 more before they die. That amounts to 315 seconds of progress on gens. Meaning you'll have to complete 35 seconds of a gen with 3 people. Which is very very doable.
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@C3Tooth said:
Killers have 2 stacks cool down weapon basekit already. Just decrease the maximum stacks to 6. To bring the maximum cool down back to old days.
That's not how math works.
Old wipe animation was 3 seconds.
STBFL is 5% per stack.
STBFL with 3 second wipe animation = 3 - (3 * 0.4) = 1.8 second wipe animation
STBFL with 2.7 second wipe animation = 2.7 - (2.7 * 0.4) - 1.62 second wipe animation.
Your proposal to make it 6 stacks = 2.7 - (2.7 * 0.3) = 1.89 second wipe animation.
Strictly you would be nerfing it to be worse than it was before the basekit changes to the wipe animation.
On that note though.
@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
Do you think this perk is perfectly fine or needs some changes? What is your thoughts on this perk?
For me only one change i would put into it:
M2 hits on obsession also removes stacks. But for get stacks, you will still need m1 hits on other survivors.
This change won't hurt m1 killers and perk is fine on them already. But this perk is kinda so strong on some killers and that change will address this issue.
Are we really living in a world where people are complaining about STBFL? Like, the one thing that keeps m1 killers able to deal with some of the ridiculous things in the game. You need to stop asking to nerf things that don't affect nurse spirit and blight when they aren't a problem.
Why are you trying to nerf pig and demogorgon and legion?
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@PogbertChamperson said:
My biggest gripe is the efficiency of tunneling off hook with it. This wasn't as problematic when a lot of survivors were running Decisive Strike as you'd have your protection after the down. Now your protection off hook is in the form of the endurance effect. You can hit a survivor off hook 2 times pretty quickly with 4+ tokens.
I'd love to see the most recently unhooked survivor become the obsession to dissuade targeting the same survivor.
Why are you or your teammates unhooking while being chased by the killer?
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@Pulsar said:
Indeed, I've brought this up in the past.
Every level is about 300 Shards. To gain a level, it takes about 7 games.
9000 Shards / 300 Shards Per Level = 30 levels
30 Levels * 7 Games Per Level = 210 games for a single character.
I seem to remember PC doesn't get Huntress, Hag, Doctor or Nurse for free.
So, if you play on PC you'd need about 8000 games to unlock everyone.
210 Games Per Level * 38 Unlockable Shard Characters = 7980 Games
For Console:
210 Games Per Level * 30 Unlockable Shard Characters = 6500 Games
So, on Console where there are less characters we'll do the math first.
6500 Games * 13 minutes (Average Trial Time) = 84500 Minutes Of Gameplay.
84,500 Minutes / 60 Minutes Per Hour = 1408 Hours of Gameplay
For PC:
7980 Games * 13 minutes (Average Trial Time) = 103,740 Minutes of Gameplay
103,740 Minutes / 60 Minutes Per Hour = 1729 Hours of Gameplay
So, yeah, Shard gain is rough and it's not realistic anymore. It was fine when there were 12 Killers, but we've got too many now. You are forced to fork over hundreds of dollars in DLC costs.
I don't know the exact numbers on shards but i'm one of the people that generally buys everything with money on steam (the only except was the twins patch that i bought with shards in protest of how bad the PTB went). And i generally use 2000-4000 or so each shrine to get some extra bloodpoints and 16000 around the time of the new release (usually new releases happen with 1 day left of the shrine so i pop 8k right away for 600k points then a day later another 8k. And by the time the next release happens i get the 16k back.
I can say that you are supposed to gain 1 shard per minute of gameplay while alive based on the wiki up 10 minutes: https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Player_Level Then you earn 18xp for iri emblems, 12xp for gold, and 6xp for silver and you earn 300xp for "first game of the day" on each side. Someone mathed it out and figured that you earn around 0.0716 Iridescent Shards per Experience Point.
So based on that, for me, my lifetime earn of shards with almost devotion 12 is around 7,765,920 XP which at 0.0716 shards per experience point is probably around 556,039 shards from which feels pretty close. Which means i could buy 61.78 characters at 2800 hours which maths out to around 45 hours per character.
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@Dipper said:
When the killer closes the hatch, they often are in a position, where they can switch gates faster than one can open it. This leads to survivors knowing that as soon as the hatch is closed and they are alone, that they are doomed if the killer wants the kill. So closing the hatch should at least give some progress to the exit gates, so they can be opened faster. This also means that if 2 or more survivors are left, there won't be a hatch to close and the exit gates need to be opened like normally
@Ryuhi said:
You already lost both the match and the hatch search, you're on a third chance at that point.
This, you lost the match, that was your 1st chance. Then you lost the hatch search, that was your second chance. Your 3rd chance is getting lucky with the spawns or tricking the killer.
How many more chances do you want exactly?
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@Clockwork_Enigma said:
I'm scared it will just be another Killer who has some very boring setup-based ability and nothing else of substance. Like I want to be wrong and I hope I am, but it's hard to get excited when we've just had Knight, Skull Merchant AND Singularity back-to-back.
Also if the Killer's name isn't "The Xenomorph", I'll be sad.
I'm guessing it'll be an evolving killer.
The life cycle of the species Xenomorph XX121 is a complex process involving several distinct stages and the use of a living host organism as a vessel inside which the infant Xenomorph gestates. The cycle, and in particular the use of hosts that invariably perish when the infant Chestburster forces its way through their ribcage, is often considered the species' signature aspect and is the characteristic for which they are most well known. Note that this article is not a comprehensive list of allYou'll start off as a little thing and work your way up to a full blown xenomorph.
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@Chaotic_Wretch said:
I'm a huge Alien fan. I've seen every movie multiple times and love them all so much. I'm extremely excited that THE sci-fi horror franchise is finally hitting DBD but I'm worried about the potential Xenomorph power design. I want the power to be flavorful and reflective of the killer's unique lore, but if facehuggers are involved in any way, I'm scared we'll be in for yet another killer with the ability to kill survivors outright without needed to sacrifice them. I would love for the Xeno to plant eggs around the map that open and surprise survivors with mini chases with the facehuggers, but I don't see any way the facehugger could be implemented without them also being attached to an instant kill mechanic when a timer runs out. It's way too soon to say what the power may be, but I'm hoping it doesn't have facehuggers, as cool as they would be.
Yeah, how terrible it would be to have another killer that plays differently and that isn't just the same old hold shift + w and drop pallets.
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@rvzrvzrvz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3500508#Comment_3500508
True that's exactly what they should do but no one wants to hear it, make tunneling/camping impossible or very punishing but nerf gen speed heavily... toolboxes and gen perks. There is no other way to make the game more chase based, more about hooks and less about securing quick kills
That's what i don't understand about this community. The survivor mains complain about camping and tunneling, and whenever anyone points out how terrible it actually is for killers going against efficient teams its "but the average survivor can't do that". Which doesn't matter. You also don't make changes in a vacuum, you can change A and also change B at the same time. With all the complaining i'm surprised people don't realize that this game would be more fun if they didn't balance for kills, but instead balanced for chases, and made camping and tunneling impossible. It's what everyone generally wants.
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@supersonic853 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3500543#Comment_3500543
The wiki got updated and according to its text its still you can only get greens but the addons are random.
https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Dramaturgy
(and they normally test)
That's what i'm saying though, the wiki is going off of the patch notes and anyone can edit a wiki. My point is, i'd guess the intent is to remove the random BNP, so my assumption is either: A) the patch note is poorly worded. B) they disabled ultra rare items but forgot to disable the ultra rare addons as well. Because i can't imagine a world where the perk "needs" a nerf to remove the ability to get a red key or a red map both of which i pretty "meh" this days.
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@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3500382#Comment_3500382
You can still get BNPs. You just can't pull a Purple med-kit anymore.
Basically you get a green item + two random addons and those addons can't be event ones.
I'd guess the patch note is worded poorly and they mean addons too, but at the very least i can't imagine their intent was that you can't get maps and red keys and that the intent was to get rid of random pulling of BNP for example.
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@averagemikaelamain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3499375#Comment_3499375
Dead Lock,Pain Res,Corrupt,Gift Of Pain,Jolt,Floods,BBQ,NOED,are all of these dead and I missed something?
- Dead lock is pretty decent, i'll give you that, but its not controllable. All it does is slow down the "gen rush"
- Pain res is okish, but you get 4 uses out of it if you don't tunnel, and it knocks off 22.5 seconds off a gen at most for each token. For context, a commodious toolbox knocks off 26 seconds off a gen and pain res is the highest burst gen regression in the game. So even pain res, which can only be used 4 times, is less powerful than a toolbox, that can be used multiple times with other perks.
- Corrupt has been mostly gutted because of a down removing it. The reality is that first down is hard to get regardless, and even with corrupt you'll likely still lose 2 gens in the first chase.
- Gift of pain is a joke, it can be countered by forcing the killer to hit you and on top of that it forces you to not tunnel to get value (hint: at high levels you have to at least mildly tunnel to win)
- Jolt is a joke, at BEST its going to hit 3 gens and knock off 7.2 seconds on each one, in reality its probably only going to consistently hit 1 maybe 2 gens if you are lucky.
- Floods of rage is an aura perk which is countered by the now-meta distortion
- BBQ is an aura perk, and you can actually counter it pretty well by hiding your aura behind a gen if you know where the killer is.
- NOED is a joke, you spend the whole game with 3 perks, to guarantee a single down (not necessarily a kill depending on cleansing). Purely RNG based where the totem spawns if it gives you any actual value. And there's no point in using it over something like NWO which is much better value and game delay.
Gen regression has been nerfed to uselessness now. Keep in mind, and this something i think survivors don't realize, the amount of time it takes to pick up a survivor and hook them. Like, forget the chase aspect, and the cooldowns and all that. But lets just look at the time to hook them.
2.7 seconds wipe animation
3 second pickup animation
~8 seconds to walk to a hook (about half the wiggle bar)
1.5 second hooking animation
So just hooking a survivor takes a full 2.7 + 3 + 8 + 1.5 = 15.2 seconds. 3 other survivors working on gens, means you finish half a gen between the 3 of you, just picking a survivor up. Again, not factoring in anything else, not even the chase itself (which at minimum should last around 30-40 seconds). This doesn't factor in that half the time the survivor that is downed teleports a few meters away for some random reason so it takes a couple extra seconds where you "fiddle" with picking them up. It doesn't factor in looking around for other survivors to deal with potential flashlights or pallet saves.
And you wonder why it is so frustrating to see these gen defense perks gutted? The only one that actually gives you BACK value from a hook is pain res, and that only works 4 times. This is why slugging and tunneling is the norm now, because you literally do not have time to pick up a survivor and hook them against an efficient team.
That's not to say all hope is lost, it is clear BHVR is trying to move us to a more chase oriented meta. With nerfs to healing, buffs to coup and things like trail of torment and the new singularity perks. It is obvious that is the direction they are pushing. Which i personally think is good. But they really need to stop being lazy and not do it with perks. IMO. Make tunneling IMPOSSIBLE. Make camping IMPOSSIBLE (not punished via a stupid abusable mechanic by SWF, i mean literally IMPOSSIBLE) and balance the gen speeds around getting lots of hooks and chases (and not kills) and the game will be so much more fun for everyone.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3498246#Comment_3498246
I think it's the only way certain killers feel like they can win right now.
Unfortunately this has been the mantra for at least the past year for killers. Doesn't matter what the state of the game is, including the gen kick meta which was the strongest killer has been in years, possibly ever. People have been saying this regardless of the game balance.
It's just an excuse to play how people want to play. Tunneling is at least 'efficient', but there's no excuse for holding a game hostage for an hour with a 3 gen strat.
The killer's job is to prevent the survivors from escaping. If anyone is holding the game hostage, it is the survivors for refusing to try and complete their objective.
Even the team eternal one showed that the strategy on SM, regardless of how annoying, is beatable.