Reinami
Reinami
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- Reinami
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@Sackboy123 said:
Let's not mention Spirit Fury, Enduring and Hubris. Rewarding Killers for failing a mind game and getting an instant down
I think the main difference here though, is that none of these perks you mentioned are any good.
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@Evan_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3516346#Comment_3516346
Conspiracy theory time:
Many perceive slightly better players than themselves as a comp-SWF-squad, and slightly worse players as troll baby-survivors. Maybe because of the game's snowbally nature, maybe because we can't imagine how much better and how much worse players are out there besides those we usually face.
I can definitely tell the difference. There are what i call "normal" survivors. And then there are the "babies" and then the "efficient" ones. And you can definitely definitely tell the difference just in how they move and what they do. The "comp squad" is an exaggeration sure. But it was meant to illustrate the point rather than try to explain details.
The point is, my matches swing wildly back and forth in terms of quality and fairness for seemingly random reasons.
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@Peanits said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3515937#Comment_3515937
I think there may be some misconceptions here, so I'll do my best to clear them up.
The game does use an MMR system for matchmaking and it has not been removed. That said, not every match will be perfect. Matchmaking systems need to balance match quality and queue times carefully. If it prioritizes making the absolute perfect matches every time, you're going to wind up waiting a very long time for a match. While some may be okay with that wait, others don't care as much and would rather play sooner. It's a tricky thing to perfect and something we're always tweaking to improve. The vast majority of matches are already within a very close margin where your odds of winning vary by a few percent.
There are some extreme cases where this is not possible, though. For example, if there aren't enough players near your rating playing in your area at the time you're playing. In cases like this, the matchmaking system has to gradually expand its search range until it can find you a match, otherwise you may be waiting a very long time (possibly forever). This scenario is fairly uncommon, and while it's unfortunate, there's not much we can do there. The matchmaking system can only work with the pool of players that are available to it.
But as far as levels go, they mean absolutely nothing and have no impact on matchmaking. If an expert survivor happened to pick a new character this match, they aren't suddenly a terrible player. Especially since the progression overhaul, they even have access to most perks right away. The same goes for grades and prestige; they have absolutely zero impact on matchmaking and do not reflect someone's skill in any way.
The exception to this is the PTB. Matchmaking ratings are not used on the PTB since there are not enough players on the test build to create quality matches. Therefore, it's disabled and you can be paired with anyone.
Is there any data around how common or uncommon it is to have what you would define as a "fair match" of "close mmr"
Because matchmaking feels like a giant pendulum to me where i'll get one of 3 scenarios.
I'll get 1 match that is a SWF kill squad that probably plays comp, teabags me, trolls me, and overall destroys me. Then my next game is the complete opposite, a bunch of survivors trolling each other, and i 4k at 5 gens. Then my next match is relatively normal. Then i might get a SWF kill squad again.
It feels like matchmaking is balancing me around a 50% win rate., but the way it does it is by just throwing some 10k hour squad on coms at me, and then throws a bunch of babies at me that i stomp. Great 50% win rate, balanced.
The other scenario i get is when i play killer and i just win 10-20 games in a row by a bunch of people who seem like they are barely trying. Then i'll get that SWF kill squad, and then another 10-20 games of a bunch of people who i stomp easily.
Then further still, on killers i don't normally play, i feel like i get thrown that SWF 10k hour squad every time. Like, i generally don't play trapper for example, but if i get a challenge or something where i need to play him, i'll get that death squad almost every time. But then on my nurse main that i play where i legitimately probably haven't lost a game in months with, i'll get babies constantly. Now sure you might say that is due to experience, i play nurse a lot so i'm really good with her, but i don't play trapper much so i'm bad with him. But i can say for sure that you can TELL the different between these groups of survivors by how they play, and how fast gens go, and all the other factors. It is just something that you "know" from playing them.
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@BarnesFlam said:
You have to reunite with two injured survivors at the same time, it doesn't count if you met them apart.
That's what we did though, all 3 of us grouped up to heal each other (all 3 injured against sloppy so 0 heal progress was there.
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@lidokain said:
I agree that giving up is really lame but... there's really nothing that can be done about it. Not only would it remove the 4% chance that gives some clutch games, it wouldn't keep survivors in the game. If they wanna leave, they'll leave. If they can't suicide on hook, they'll just go AFK. The problem is people giving up, not so much the fact it's easy to do so.
Yeah there is, they can ban people who do it. That'll stop it real quick. Same with AFK, same with trolling, same with bodyblocking.
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@Marc_123 said:
I never understood why Dead Hard could be used multiple times.
This should have been a one time use like Unbreakable and it would have been fine and still strong.
I don´t like the new DH because i don´t like all these white endurance hits in game. They are killing the athmosphere for me.
That wouldn't have worked well either. It's strength lies in that first chase. The first chase, if the survivor just holds shift+w takes the killer around 59 seconds to down them, pick them up, and hook them. When you throw dead hard in there, it makes it take another 15.5 in that straight line chase. Now you are talking territory of just losing 3 gens no matter what, even a single use of dead hard early on is game ending.
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@xPrinceHarlequinx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3515018#Comment_3515018
different strokes for different folks. Regardless, this was an off-topic tangent between me and another person that replied. I appreciate your input on the experiment in your other response though.
My point is, i never understood any argument anyone has around "uninteractive" or certain things making survivors "lose agency"
The entire game is designed around killers taking away a survivor's agency to do anything. That is the whole point of the game. It is essentially a game of freeze tag, where the person who tags you puts you on timeout so you can't play tag anymore until one of your teammates comes by an "unfreezes" you.
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@oreoslurpee said:
theres 2 bugs right now with them, 1 is where the survivor gets invulnerability frames mid-vault and the second one is where guys have farther distance than the women do when fast vaulting. why revert the bug fix for vaults instead of just bug fixing those 2 issues while leaving fast vaults as how they should be?
it seems very dumb to revert it completely as for 7 years it hasn't been working properly, now your changing it back to not be visually accurate instead of just fixing the 2 bugs it has right now?
They probably don't have enough time to fix both of the bugs right now. So they opted to instead revert the change and figure out why it caused those 2 bugs. Then once they figure that out i'd imagine they'll reintroduce the change.
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@xPrinceHarlequinx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3514620#Comment_3514620
Partly correct. I'm saying the reason slugging is unfun is because its incredibly uninteractive for the person on the ground. You hold a button until the meter fills and then you just wait. If teammates don't come, I'm not contributing to my team. I'm also not contributing to a sacrifice. I'm just existing by not getting to play the game at all. At least on the hook I'll eventually get to have a space bar mini game to entertain myself.
I never understood this argument. Because being hooked is actually less interactive, because you can't move, and the "minigame" is as boring as holding m1 on a gen.
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@xPrinceHarlequinx said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/E2NZHWI4KCBA/sadako-challenge.png
Sadako Experiment: How many Condemned in 32 Matches? (It was supposed to be 30 and I accidentally did 2 extra but more data never hurt anyone)
Answer: 41
The rules were I had to play normal, no camping/slugging/tunneling to secure condemned. If they were downed, they were hooked.
I started off thinking she was going to need the slowdown based on how she had been since release. Within 6 matches I realized she was doing too well. The next 2 I dropped down to only Jolt and that felt more fair. Then I started to wonder if she even needed that.
So for the next 11 matches I played with 0 slowdown perks and only counted on my condemned stacks to keep the game at pace. My findings were, she performed fairly well without any slowdown other than her basekit condemned stacking. I wondered why this was?
There were matches where gens still went fairly fast without slowdown, but in those matches, they didn't manage their condemned well and pretty soon they were instantly dead. In the matches where they steadily managed their condemned, they couldn't keep up on gen progress.
However, realistically, we weren't going to see Sadako's without at least some slowdown and I wanted an accurate picture. So I threw on Jolt to see how much better she performed. Out of the last 13 matches, only 3 resulted in all 4 survivors escaping.
Those 3 matches were actually incredibly difficult and the teams did exceptionally well at not becoming condemned while simultaneously pushing out gens rather quickly. So, what does this mean?
Well, it means what it typically does for most killers in the game. Against normal teams, Sadako is actually quite oppressive and requires a decent amount of coordination to overcome. However, against a coordinated team, she can still struggle quite hard.
I'm aware that experiments like these, especially with 32 matches of data, are a rather small drop in the bucket, but I was looking to see how consistent her condemned mechanic came into play and it's definitely went from rarely seeing it, to seeing it almost every match.
And even when you don't see it, the threat of it will usually play into your favor. I didn't use iridescent add-ons. The one I used for every match was the "spread condemned to other surv" add-on. I also didn't use super oppressive perks.
In conclusion, I think Sadako might be slightly overtuned but not to a busted level. I would put her at high B-Tier or low A-tier if I were to rank her.
What do you guys think? What has your experience been like? Is she too strong? Has she finally found her groove?
Every match i have played against her after the first day or 2 where people don't DC or immediately give up have been a 4man escape. Once you know what to do, she is easy to deal with.
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Hoping for a dev response though for confirmation.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3512953#Comment_3512953
Following that logic, then the DC penalty should be reduced or removed entirely in order to "encourage" players to DC instead of suiciding.
@topic, you can't force people to play a game they aren't enjoying. I empathize with the plight, but it's a simple fact of life that people aren't gonna keep playing the game when it's miserable for them. You can punish them via DC penalties and you could even make hook suicides permanently bannable like I've heard people want; people will still AFK, they'll still sandbag, they'll still give up, they'll still not try to win. It doesn't matter what you punish. All you can do is work around that fact instead of trying to change it.
@you, yeah actually, you CAN. You BAN THEM for afking, trolling, or otherwise not playing the game. It'll end it really really quick.
The DC penalty is there because they don't want people leaving games. And being able to ######### on hook is an out without the punishment. If you don't want to play, you take the penalty. This game is VERY generous, in that you first leave is essentially free, and the second is just a youtube video's length. If you are doing it 3 times a night, then i think you have an entitlement problem.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
Haste is calculated on base speed. So 5% Haste on a 4.6m/s killer results in their speed being 4.83m/s. On a 4.4 killer they would get 4.62m/s.
It works the same way on survivor, 5% Haste while a survivor is running would be 5% of 4m/s making it 4.2m/s. While they’re walking, it’s 5% of the default walking speed (2.26m/s), making it 2.373m/s.
Worth noting, Bloodlust does NOT work this way, it is just a flat +0.2m/s per tier and the killer’s base speed makes no difference.
This is how i assumed it worked for the longest time, but i have heard from other people who are confident its based on 4.0 m/s speed.
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@ChefObama said:
After watching Otz's new video, he brought up some interesting ideas that I haven't considered, but for the most part I disagree on. I would like to hear opinions from people who play both sides, like I just play whichever side has boosted bloodpoints lol.
His 3 ideas were:
- Haste effects no longer stack. His main argument for this was that hope and MFT combined are op, but I don't think he considered that this is only in effect for the endgame, which is a small part of the game overall. If I'm a killer and the survivors are all running this combo I'm not upset about haste stacking because I had the whole rest of the game to get them.
- Killer gets a visual warning when it procs. I don't think this is a bad idea.
- Endurance effect removed. Now this is something I'm iffy on because picking someone up is risky while injured anyways and the killer can just down the person who got picked up.
The main thing I really think he didn't consider through his video was that to activate this perk there are 2 requirements: You must be injured and must not be exhausted. Being injured is risky in itself because it means you don't get a second chance if you make a mistake and the 3% will often not save you. Also you are easier to locate and must play safer overall. Secondly you cannot really use any exhaustion perks effectively if you have MFT because it just cancels it out. I find exhaustion perks like lithe and mid chase sprint burst to be more frustrating then a survivor running a tiny bit faster.
Overall I don't think this perk needs to be changed. Maybe add the visual effect but that's it. As someone who plays killer a decent amount I have no problem with survivors using this perk as this means they're more likely to stay injured, making it easier to locate them and only having to hit them once to down them. From a survivor perspective this only makes a difference if you know how to loop in the first place, and often is just a perk that makes sure I make a window or pallet without being hit, versus leaving it up to ping.
Otz was wrong about the first situation though. In terms of distance gained, it does better than sprint burst in all but the most ridiculous scenarios. Lets look at a healthy survivor, and a 4.6 killer at various distances with mft and without mft , and with sprint burst and how long it takes to down them. Keep in mind the following facts.
- Lunging makes a 4.6 killer's movement speed 6.9 for 0.9 seconds. But the survivor still moves during that at 4.0 m/s. Killer attack hitbox extends out about a meter. This means the killer needs to be within 3.6 meters of the survivor to make a successful lunge attack at max range.
- Survivors gain 150% movement speed (6.0 m/s) for 1.8 seconds after being hit.
- Killer wipe animation after attack is 2.7 seconds, during which they move 0.575 m/s
- Sprint burst allows the survivor to move 6.0 m/s for 3 seconds
- MFT increases a survivors injured movement speed to 4.12 m/s
So, doing the math with these parameters if the healthy survivor starts at the following distances from a 4.6 killer, how long will it take to down them?
16 meters (half a terror radius)
- Basekit: 20.6 seconds for the first hit + 15.4 seconds for the second hit = 36 seconds to down
- Sprint burst: 30.6 seconds for the first hit + 15.4 seconds for the second hit = 46 seconds to down
- MFT: 20.6 seconds for the first hit + 27.44 seconds for the second hit = 48 seconds to down
This means that MFT actually gains you MORE distance that sprint burst, over a straight line chase starting at 16 meters. 16 meters is pretty close. For an idea of distance, a 4.6 killer for a full lunge will move 6.21 meters. So, start up a game as a 4.6 killer, and lunge 3 times. And see how close your starting point was compared to you. THAT distance, is actually 18.63 meters, which is a full 2.63 meters further than that starting chase.
After you realize this, you realize that MFT is by far the best exhaustion perk in the game now.
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@Biscuits said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3513005#Comment_3513005
If people aren't having fun, they aren't having fun. Entitlement has nothing to do with it. There are plenty of things killers can do to make the game not fun for survivors, and you are all aware of those things. Don't pretend like killers are providing a service.
Name any other team based multiplayer game, where this kind of behavior is acceptable. Because i can name you half a dozen, that not only don't tolerate it, but significantly punish it.
- DotA2: You get 1 free leave a WEEK, then you start getting penalties, 1st game is a warning, 2nd game you get put into LOW PRIORITY queue, which makes your matchmaking take 3-4x longer, and in order to get out you have to WIN X number of games depending on your penalty, and you also are forced to play with other people in Low priority, meaning you play with all the douchebags
- Overwatch: XP penalties of 75% (progression) and banning from matches (similar to DBD)
- LoL: Scaling bans going from 1 day, 3 day, 1 week etc. if you do it too often
- Rainbow 6 Siege: XP penalty of 50%, 24 hour ban, 72 hour ban, banning from the ENTIRE SEASON (2 months)
- CS:GO: scaling time 30 minutes to 2 hours to 24 hours to 7 DAYS
The other kicker about these games, is matches can last FAR LONGER than a match of DBD. A typical match of DBD lasts about 8-10 minutes. Meaning, if you are having a bad time, at most you'll have a bad time for 8 minutes. These games have SIGNIFICANTLY more punishing systems despite longer games. Games of DotA, LoL and CS:GO can last an hour or more. Games of rainbow 6 will last 30 minutes to an hour, and overwatch can last 15-20 minutes.
And now here is the part where you will say "but DBD is a party game". Even if that argument is true, which i don't think it is, killing yourself on hook, is ruining the party too. So i think you should be punished anyway.
Now is the next part where you will say "but DBD doesn't have a ranked mode", yeah it doesn't, but guess what, many of those games i mentioned, also have penalties for leaving games in casual matches as well. And if you are queuing up, you are agreeing to play a match. If you don't want to see certain killers, or perks, or you want to do something specific, that is what custom games are for. Invite some of your friends over, and play by your own rules. When you queue for matchmaking, you deal with it.
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@FilthyLegionRevival said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3512961#Comment_3512961
I'm sorry but that sounds like the most spiteful and insufferable thing I have heard over a game. If someone has to leave or wants to, they shouldn't be down a pair of hands to work on gens because of it.
I think you have my opinion backwards. I think the person that wants out should DC, so at least we get a bot who will play the game. But people don't want to take the penalty, so they kill themselves on hook instead. Denying the team at least a bot that will play. I propose that they ban people for doing this. Ultimately i think the mechanic should go away entirely, but in general, they should ban for things like trolling (they do already with video evidence) helping the killer, afking, etc. That way, when someone wants out, they have 2 choices, DC, take the penalty, the team gets some bots, and everyone is happy, or they afk, troll, otherwise cause a problem, and get banned from the game so they can't do that anymore, and everyone is happy.
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@jajay119 said:
If you're happy for them to DC... why not just let them suicide on hook? It's the same thing. They want out. Let them have it. It's a selfish playstyle, sure but 'players can play as altruistically or a selfishly as they like'. BHVR's own words.
Because if they DC at least i get a bot that will play the game and i know they took a punishment from queuing again.
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@Melinko said:
People will never DC and give the bot when it means they have a penalty.
They can't remove the penalty, or people will just DC with no concern.
If people opting out of the match is happening, the answer isn't punish them for doing it. Instead, there needs to be a look into why is it happening? Gen rush increased, therefore tunneling and camping increased, and that has lead to more people opting out as soon as it looks like they are going to get camped or tunneled.
Sure, some of it is just people upset they are first down but most of the opt outs I've seen in matches come from a killer starting to tunnel or sitting on the hook. People are over it. If you want to ban people for the opt out, you'd have to start banning people for the cause (tunneling and camping) and that turns into a whole rabbit hole.
Someone opts out, you have two choices. Play out the match and hope the killer isn't a complete turd and realizes someone opted out. When I'm on killer, I will let 1 or 2 people go for certain when a teammate drops like that.
Other option, walk to the killer, get hooked, opt out as well and start a new match.
I'd imagine if you start permabanning people for doing it on a regular basis it'll end real quick too.
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@Biscuits said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3512907#Comment_3512907
So I just played a game where the nemesis attempted to tunnel me, but someoen in the lobby had the same exact skin as me. The nemesis got confused and chased the other person thinking not realizing it wasn't me. And we got a 4 man out. Had your system been in the game, he would have instantly known he was chasing the wrong Jake.
I play quite a few games a week, very very few killers play nice. I would say 1 in 30? You can't put in a system that makes an already big problem worse.
My point is, how often does THAT happen where someone wants to tunnel but forgets or lost track or can't figure it out? Probably less than someone who is trying to be nice TBH.
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@egg_ said:
Literally don't unhook someone who's trying to get out of the game, it's really that easy, cuz if they don't want to play that match, they won't anyway
If i'm going to lose either way, i'm not letting them out that easy.
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@Biscuits said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3512884#Comment_3512884
I have played 4 games today. 3 of them someone was tunneled out. I don't need my 4th games to also be tunnels. Most killers do not play nice and the game should not be designed around the idea that people will respect survivor players. Killers play as dirty as possible more than half the time, if you give them information on which targets are vulnerable, they will abuse it.
Right so, what you just said there was that 3 of your games someone was tunneled out. So adding the indicator doesn't make a difference. My point is that, if people want to tunnel, they tunnel regardless of indicator. It really isn't that hard, when that is your goal, to just pay attention to which survivors you hooked. But for those of us who go out of our way to NOT tunnel, and don't keep track, it makes it a bit easier for us to be nice.
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@C3Tooth said:
I knew the moment I read that she can teleport once per 15sec that gain stack map wide would be spam-able. The teleport is tough to balance though, since she has the most thing in her kit: stealth, teleport, slowdown, mori.
Mori should be only the reason why survivor should interact with her slowdown. Not her goal to build up. My idea is to nerf teleport and buff the slowdown.
- She can only teleport once per min. All survivors gain 1 stacks.
- Holding a tape should passive gaining stack, so survivors only get the tape when need to lose stacks, not to control TV.
The match would go like this:
3min: 2 survivors should go for the tape, since all of them have 3 stacks. If all of them wait for 5-6 stacks before going for the tape, there would not enough TVs for them.
5min: TVs are reset and other 2 survivors have 5 stacks now, they should go for the tape.
Then the slowdown will be repeated like that. Consistent.
15 seconds is a LONG time. She needs to teleport 10 full times before you are able to be condemned. That is a full 150 seconds. And she can't teleport for the first 30 seconds. You can't just spam teleport and expect to get someone without all the gens getting done. Personally when i go against her, i don't think i have lost a game yet in solo queue, except for maybe the first day when everyone was figuring out what to do.
She's pretty easy to counter once you understand what to do. You need to remember that at the end of the day, she literally has 0 chasing power. Her power does nothing in a chase. All she has is tons of mobility and map pressure. Once you realize that, you just need to manage your stacks and pay attention when she is busy.
The ONLY thing i'll agree with, is the that the green addon that tells her when you take a tape is a bit annoying in solo queue. Not unbeatable, but annoying for sure.
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@Biscuits said:
Because you would tunnel more than you already do.
I don't think that is true. People who want to hard tunnel already keep track in their head, so there really isn't much of a point of hiding it. TBH. It would actually help ME out a lot, when i am trying to be nice, so i know who is on death hook and which one i should focus on so i don't take someone out of the game quickly.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
A perk that essentially lets you ignore the need to reset for the last 1-2 generators is kind of busted imo.
I don't know how I'd nerf it but it's an extremely strong perk that gets even stronger when stacked. It's probably the single strongest Survivor perk in the game at the moment.
Especially since you lose the first 2-3 in the first chase. Basically, it allows teams to just never heal.
It is one of those perks that, as usual. In the hands of random solo queue survivors, is totally fine. But with coordinated teams who can know exactly when a gen is about to pop, and time their 4 adrenaline's together, it is way too strong.
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@MrMori said:
Wonder why this isn't pinned. I made my own post with the same solution because I didn't find this one.
But good work as always.
I'm not sure, the last one was unpinned and this one wasn't pinned. Maybe they decided not to pin these moving forward. Either way, if that is the case i have some ways i can make sure that people get the info.
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@Luckyfer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3511676#Comment_3511676
You can get your own proof from Twitch...
Or you can play yourself.
And I don't owe you or anyone proof to have an opinion,which might be a fact.
You and that Hillbilly guy shouldn't be allowed on these discussions,it's obvious you're trolls.
You need proof to know someone is injured when the wound is visible,there are plenty more of these posts,and would be more if you weren't invalidating anyone's opinion.
And I highly doubt me giving you or the other guy any of my gameplay would solve anything.
At best you'll point out every survivor mistake ever,be either mine or my opponents.
And like I said,there's plenty of data on YouTube and Twitch...mostly on Twitch.
I dunno, what i see on twitch is people like hens joining up with their SWF buddies and stomping killers for 100 games in a row. I'm talking about specifically YOUR experience. If you make some claims, you provide evidence, but since you refuse to do so, at this point i can either conclude:
1) You are lying
2) You aren't as good as you think you are
3) The survivors aren't that good
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@IlliterateGenocide said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3511765#Comment_3511765
Apparently it's not a bug so :/, they are the same realm even tho the realm is named after the planet that toba is on
I can't imagine that a non-licensed map is supposed to actually exist in the same realm as a licensed one. My guess is that they just forgot to change some names.
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@VirtuaTyKing said:
I'm playing against some survivors that seem impossible to hit at least with an M1.
They are not 360 me or playing clever.
I have played the game long enough to know when a hit is a hit.
I have only been noticing this since the vault patch. Which is being reverted I hear as it's not functioning the way it should.
I have read others saying about this missing hit thing. Not talking about at vaults.
I don't like to think people are cheating when they are not so which is it?
Without a video, it is hard to say.
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@Xxjwaynexx said:
Umm the only change I would like is for it to inflict exhaustion on heal (maybe) and turn off when egc happens. I don't like setting limits, can you imagine jolt with a cooldown or sloppy with a cooldown. Both sides have perks that are good that require nothing but playing the game as usual. MFT is a hot topic but it doesn't need a nerf per se
Jolt and sloppy already have limitations, they only work with m1 attacks.
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@Mockingjay_S451 said:
Well, I guess the killer mains moaned loud enough. This is in the PTB Bug Reporting section.
Back to being hit from miles away I guess.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/LV05FQWWVVXV/img-1062.jpeg
Male survivors are going much further than they should There are tons of videos about it. It is so bad that in the tutorial, you are supposed to vault a window and get stuck in a trap, and you don't get stuck in the trap, because you vault clean over it.
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@MDRSan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3511084#Comment_3511084
Survivors don’t like Skull Merchants or to a lesser degree Knights because their powers are frequently used to create boring battles of attrition. Before the regression nerfs, they could literally guarantee no generator could be completed in a 3 gen setup unless they went AFK or something. It has nothing to do with whether they might as well be bots.
That some chases, when run optimally and with lucky map configurations can take a while is by design. This game is designed such that a killer will always catch up to and down a survivor provided they’re both looping to the same level of skill. The only question is how long it will take. A killer is meant to make a choice in those situations - continue the chase and get a down or break chase to play for more downs by slowing gen progress, going after survivors in less favorable areas, etc. If a killer can catch up to a survivor consistently and quickly, what do you think a survivor can do to win? How do you feel that would be fair gameplay?
Because of the gen to chase speed ratio, a battle of attrition is the only one you can win. Most pallets are safe pallets these days, and many are even god pallets. They can't be mindgamed and you MUST break them. During which the survivor is gaining 10-15 seconds of distance on you. 10-15 second with 3 other survivors on gens, that have probably already been on gens for a good 20-30 seconds since the game started. Then you factor in the speedboost they get, catching up, downing them, picking them up, walking to a hook, hooking them.
People really underestimate how much time a killer spends doing things. Do you know how long it takes to hook a survivor, not even factoring in the chase or anything like that?
2.7 second attack animation + 3 second pickup animation + 8 seconds (half wiggle bar) walking to a hook + 1.5 second hooking animation. That's a full 15.2 seconds of dead time where the other 3 survivors can be on a gen. Survivors need to repair 450 seconds of a generator time total. Which means just PICKING UP that first survivor and hooking them, finishes 10% of the survivors objective. Which is insane. That doesn't even factor in chasing the survivor, dealing with pallets, looping, windows, nothing. That's just, they are on the ground and now you can pick them up.
Meanwhile you need to also look around for other survivors going for flashlight saves, or pallet saves. Or you need to "fiddle" with the survivor on the ground because they teleport around for some reason.
And people expect killers to do that without camping, without tunneling, without slugging, and without creating deadzones and delaying the game as long as possible, a full 12 times?
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@MDRSan said:
I think the problem is a survivor needs a way to realistically get away from a killer that spots them. You mentioned shack pallet but pallets are one time use if the killer decides to break it. Breaking it lets the survivor build a lot of distance, sure, but that’s a one time event and it’s kind of the point of pallets. If killers always had a quick way to down a survivor in all tile configurations and situations without needing to spend time that would otherwise be spent on pressuring gens, there really wouldn’t be a point to playing survivor.
Tiles are generally meant to be beneficial to survivors and not the killer. Survivors are designed to have to run from the killer but being slower than almost all killers (assuming we ignore blinking for the sake of technicality) means they need something to compensate in order to have a chance of winning.
Each pallet broken extends a chase by MINIMUM, 10 seconds. 2.7 seconds to break, survivor gets 10.8 meters of distance, killer takes 10 seconds to get into range to lunge. This assumes that survivor is touching the pallet as the killer starts to break it and runs away. For pallets like shack pallet, where you can predrop and just run, you'll get FAR more distance out of it. And that is assuming they don't have another pallet or loop nearby, which they almost always do.
During your first chase, if you predrop 2 god pallets without getting hit, and your teammates are doing gens, you are guaranteed to get 3 gens done during that first chase.
It isn't just about a single 1v1, this is the problem. People also underestimate how much time things take a killer. If you do the math and look at a scenario of a basic killer and survivor scenario, where the terror radius shows up and the survivor starts to run in a straight line away from the killer. Even if they use 0 pallets, 0 windows, 0 perks, 0 anything, it will take the killer 55 seconds to down that survivor and hook them. Throw in those 2 MINIMUM pallet breaks of 10 seconds each? And you are gonna lose 3 gens before that survivor is on a hook.
You can actually see how dumb this game can be by just playing a custom game with trapper against bots, and give those bots MFT, and a toolbox. Don't use your power, and watch how you probably can't even kill one before the gens get done unless you exploit their AI to make them goto unsafe areas.
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@Luckyfer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3511577#Comment_3511577
No.
I am far too lazy to do that!
Riiight, so.
"Killers are OP and win constantly when survivors aren't DCing and afking"
"Ok cool, can you show some videos of this?"
"No"
So its just conjecture with no proof or evidence of anything that we can analyze.
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@saym said:
MMR is a hot topic around me these days. I understand that there are casual players and skilled players in this game, what do you think should be done to make it fun for both players?
They need to make balance decisions that impact low skill players and not high skill players and vice versa.
This CAN be done in DBD very easily. Here is video talking about the premise in TF2, but it still applies here in DBD: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1p42KtZOCw&t=203s
The main point is where he talks about the B.A.S.E. Jumper item in TF2.
For example, if you watch low skill survivors play, you'll see them predrop shack pallet at 5 gens, panic, vault over it, and get hit anyway. So if we nerfed killer shack, for example, you wouldn't hurt the low level players, because they aren't able to do the things high level players do with shack to begin with. I'm not for making gens take longer. Personally i think they should take less. But nerfing the strength of loops so that things are more properly 50/50s would go a long way to fixing the balance of the game.
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@Luckyfer said:
If my last 50 games as Killer and Survivors taught me something is that Killers have it too easy and peaceful.
Escape rate is as low as it gets,for me atleast.
My Killrate is 3+ on a bad day,and I let a lot of survivors escape because I feel pity for them.
Hell...I haven't even been able to escape and collect 1 item...
What do developers do all day?
Play Killer once a month vs SWF.
How can anyone justify this...
Can you record some matches so we can see what is happening in them? Would give us an idea. But the general problem here, still is, and always has been, matchmaking.
SWF cause an insane imbalance in the game that matchmaking has a hard time with. Devs also generally balance around a 60% kill rate. So in theory, if you played 50 games you should see around 80 escapes. They might not all be YOU, but that point still stands. I'm also guessing at least some of those games had a DC, or someone who intentionally gave up, afk'd, killed themselves on hook, etc. And those things probably aren't factored into the 60% kill rate.
Perhaps you play in a very aggressive way as survivor that makes it so you die, but your teammates escape? It is hard to say what it is without some kind of video of a typical game.
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@puncher said:
You're awesome! Thank you
No problem. I do them anyway to figure out my plan so it just takes a couple extra minutes to make a post.
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@Derix said:
Is there any purpose to keep the mechanic of hitting a survivor on hook? It's mostly just used to BM survivors.
@Wylrin said:
Assuming it's not just to silence a long, shrill scream, a killer smacking a hooked survivor takes time. If it's to vent frustration, then it's serving no other mechanical reason other than to slow a killer by making them wipe their blade. Yeah, the time spent doing that is miniscule, but a lot of people go for grabs at vaults instead of downing and picking up to save a few precious seconds, so any time spent being unsportsmanlike is also punishing them, however mildly. Whereas butt-dancing on the other side of a pallet or window doesn't really have the same effect since you're in a safe spot that you probably don't want to leave immediately anyways. Given that a killer smacking a hooked survivor actually gives a tiny bit of advantage to the survivors, I don't see why you would want to remove it.
Certain survivor screams though yeah, i have to silence them, because they are so damn loud.
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@UndeddJester said:
Mechanic? I assume you mean the hooked survivors having a hitbox, and not the mechanic of clicking m1 to attack?
Yes, there is a purpose. It means the killer has to actually hit the unhooking survivor, and the unhook survivor can use the hooked survivor as a shield block hit attempts... or more likely force the killer to move around to the same side as them to get a hit.
Especially important vs. characters such as Huntress
Too bad the hitbox is gigantic and often times you are trying to hit the one unhooking but hit the hooked one instead.
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@rha said:
Healing 100 health states in a single trial doesn’t sound too unrealistic versus a 3 gen Chess Merchant.
The chess speaks for itself.
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@Akumakaji said:
;D Hello everyone,
I am typing this while loading into a game and trying to get this challenge done. I hope that they mean tics or charges of healing and not actual health states :D
I'm assuming that the description is messed up, and they want you to do 1 health state. But who knows lol. Hopefully you get matched against a legion who never downs with their power?
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@NotAnotherDoctor said:
I'm calling it, between now and next summer we're gonna lose the ability to attempt escape on hook.
With the recent extension of the DC penalty and the DC penalty now allegedly giving afk players a ban (I only say allegedly because I haven't experienced this but have seen people say it's the case), the number of hook suicides is at an all time high because no one wants a ban.
I'm calling it, we lose this ability by next summer, if not Christmas
Good, giving people the ability to remove themself from the match instead of taking the DC penalty is BS. I report everyone who hook suicides.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
I am asking your thoughts on this mechanic.
To me, tunnelling is very unhealthy and outdated mechanic. Killer player is just destroying fun for survivor player and not letting them to play game. Ofcourse blame is not going to killer player, it's mechanic in the game. BHVR takes all blame and shame here for not addressing this issue.
I am not saying destroy killer gameplay and make win imposible for them. No. Tunnelling and camping should be less viable but killers should be rewarded by when they go for hooks. Reward killer player for getting hooks from different survivors. Reward killer for chasing well. But tunnelling and camping should not be rewarded because they are very unskilled strategies.
Tunneling is fair IMO. I like being tunneled. Because it means i get to do the thing that is most fun as survivor, be chased by the killer. I hate holding m1 on a gen for 90 seconds and its why i generally don't play survivor. Killers often smartly leave me when they realize i know how to loop, and go after my teammates who go down in 8 seconds (solo queue) so i don't win often either. THAT is what i don't like, but i know it is smart.
The biggest problem with tunneling is 2-fold.
1) There is a varying definition of what tunneling actually is.
2) The reason "real" tunneling works, is because survivors let it work.
So firstly, What is tunneling? Here are a few questions i have?
- Is it tunneling if the killer waits nearby the hook, waits for the survivor to get unhooked, and then immediately starts going after them?
- Probably
- Is it tunneling if the killer is chasing another survivor, and they run to the hook, then unhook the survivor in the killers face get downed, and then the killer goes after the unhooked survivor?
- Maybe, but in that scenario it is the teammates fault. And "tunneling" there would be smart.
- Is it tunneling if the survivor that was just unhooked runs to the killer to bodyblock a teammate and then the killer turns to focus on the unhooked survivor?
- I don't think so, at the point you brought it on yourself, but many people would still say that is tunneling
- Is it tunneling if you hook a survivor, then chase another survivor, then hook them before the other survivor gets unhooked. Then you run to the first hooked survivor and run into them?
- I don't think so, at that point you already hooked someone else, it just feels like they got tunneled from their perspective.
- Is it tunneling if the killer is trying to do a 12 hook game, and you just got hooked the first time, but the rest of your team is on death hook, so the killer tunnels you off the hook so they don't kill one of your teammates?
- Many survivors would say this is tunneling, and many accuse me of it, but like, i'm doing it intentionally to play nice and that is just how it happened.
- Is it tunneling if, you hook a survivor, and you start chasing another survivor, but THAT survivor starts running to the fun bus (one of the strongest structures in the game), then the survivor you just hooked, gets unhooked before your terror radius even leaves the area. The person who unhooked them books it, and the unhooked survivor hides in a corner in the deadzone?
- This kind of thing happens to me a lot, i actively don't chase survivors around strong structures if i don't think it is a good idea and often times the best person to go after is the injured person. This is the type of "tunneling" that survivors do to themselves.
- Is it tunneling if you accidentally run into the survivor who was just unhooked without actually trying?
- Survivors underestimate how often this happens.
- Is it tunneling if, you hook a survivor, patrol every gen, and none of them are being worked on, and you find nobody else. During which time the survivor was unhooked, and then you head back, but the only one you can find is them?
- You aren't giving me any other targets to go after so, what am i supposed to do?
Several of these are "tunneling" in the literal sense, but survivors did it to themselves. Often times i don't think they realize that.
- Is it tunneling if the killer waits nearby the hook, waits for the survivor to get unhooked, and then immediately starts going after them?
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@Xyvielia said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3508564#Comment_3508564
Yeah, maybz… but it’ll be SO worth it, tho!
DBD peeps’ll warm up to some Higurashi😌
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/7K44LDFPZ04N/img-8271.jpeg
The fingernail scene still gets me ######### up.
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@B1gMacEnjoyer said:
I think Alc Ring is similar to Made for This where only very skilled players are getting fat value from it. Alc Ring barely does anything for the casual, unskilled Blight. They'd be better off with different add-ons. BHVR balances for casual players
You aren't allowed to mention that. We can only balance for "casual" players when talking about survivors, but when we talk about blights that go on 1k win streaks, despite the fact that the "average" blight player ain't doing that blight needs a nerf. Don't you know the rules?
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@Lovely_Peaches said:
But thats how they were supposed to be, fast vaults are supposed to keep your momentum which the didnt, thats why they are in the game in the first place, which they didnt. They gave you the same distance as a medium vault which is there so you lose your momentum. Now they finally fixed it, trust me the vaults work correctly, youre just used to getting free hits while the survivor is on the other side of the window, which wasnt supposed to happen.
Fast vaults now give the correct distance so you cant get hit when you touch the ground after walking.
@Xernoton said:
Apparently fast vaults were actually meant to be this way. I'm not completely fine with it either because the extra distance increases the vault speed and leads to survivors becoming pretty much invincible on some windows. Especially paired with Resilience, which increases the speed even further. This is probably a faster vault than even with Spine Chill's 6%. It feels absolutely terrible, when you know it's not even worth it to swing at windows anymore because you won't get a hit anyway.
Maybe they should reduce the vault speed to what it was before and instead scale the vault time a little. That way, a survivor wouldn't get hit after the vault and the killer wouldn't be punished for having a good ping. Because if your connection is bad enough, then you're gonna hit the survivor all the way from Brazil.
Yeah... another "bug fix" from something that has behaved this way for years. Similar to the "killer looks down after hit" mechanic that was a "bug" since the game's inception.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3508570#Comment_3508570
yeah but still? This was a thing before meatball larry
Maybe they changed something about it? Or maybe they forgot to turn it off for this PTB (more likely cause?)
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@NotAnotherDoctor said:
People who use VPN's when playing should be treated with the same regard that hackers are treated with.
I've seen more and more people using a VPN in the recent months and I don't know why BHVR aren't doing something about it.
Using a VPN is cheating, plain and simple
Here is a better question. Do you know how VPNs work?
Lets say someone IS doing something where they are coming from Asia, they VPN to U.S., then connect to DBD.
So lets say that have some ip in asia
100.101.102.103 (fake asia ip) -> 1.2.3.4 (fake us ip) -> dbd server
So the dbd server sees someone connecting from the U.S. They can't see that someone is connecting from Asia, that is literally the point of a VPN, to hide where you are coming from. So how would you expect the devs to even do anything about this from a technical standpoint, let a lone a "should they" stand point.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
Watching my friend play the PTB and she's got this little perk overlay on her hud
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/DNNW8QS5MCXH/image.png
but when i look to see it's nowhere in sight
A/B testing probably.
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While i love Higurashi, anyone who has no idea what it is, is gonna wonder why the hell cute anime girls are murdering people, and it will be weird for non-fans.
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@Nun_So_Vile said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3507415#Comment_3507415
While I'm sure you have a lot to say to the devs and their statics, it doesn't change that MFT is not a more popular option than SB or even Lithe. It does provide a minor speed boost (while injured keep in mind), but it does not provide as much security, which segregates it even further to and targets its value to people who are confident they are good and can loop (while injured). So what makes it optimal for the majority of players?
Right, so we agree then that, its probably a bit too strong in the hands of good players, and the "majority of players" aren't using it very optimally or even at all based on these stats?