Reinami
Reinami
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@SunaIIanu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3537710#Comment_3537710
Ds was 4 seconds long for the most time (and stunned the Killer for about 4.5s because of a bug according to the wiki), the duration was nerfed in 2.6.0 and buffed again in 2.6.3 so there was only a short period of time where the stun time was 3s and affected by enduring.
Yes, the Devs did say they would change it back, but they did not for years so there was probably a reason for it, maybe the, thought the other changes that came with the original nerf to 3 seconds were enough and/or they were happy with the ds's performance an 5s. That was also not the first time that the Devs said something and did something else, and while that can certainly be annoying, it is also their right as Devs, so I find it weird that people insist that the stun must be 3s because the Devs said so 4 years ago.
The devs haven't changed blight since nearly release, so i guess he is fine too?
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@CatnipLove said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3535924#Comment_3535924
In all fairness, there's no way for anyone to know if you reacted to something or you made a read. Both could look exactly the same.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3536344#Comment_3536344
This might be the only team based game I've played, where you need to work together with your teammates, but you can't communicate unless you go outside the game to do it. We get stuck doing the teabag version of morse code and hoping our teammates are over 100 years old so they can decipher it.
I don't disagree, they should have voice chat. But the point still stands that it IS a team based game, for survivors. If they aren't working together well, they SHOULD lose, or the killer may as well be a bot at that point.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3538717#Comment_3538717
Where is the satisfaction in that system, for any of the players?
Killer makes the winning score, survivors have the lowest score and therefore lose, but survivors escape and the killer doesn't kill anyone? What's the point? What game is this?
What's the satisfaction of playing a racing game where you get 1st place, but everyone else still crosses the finish line? Same concept. Or an FPS like CS:GO and one team wins more rounds than the other even though both teams are "alive". Or a fighting game when time runs out? Or a MOBA when you destroy the enemies base while they are still alive? Or an RTS where you destroy the enemies base without fighting their army?
Killing isn't the only thing in video games that amounts to a win.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3538377#Comment_3538377
The problem is this is a pvp game. It would be nice if there was a win condition that allowed everyone to win, where the killer can score all their hooks and the survivors can escape, but pvp games aren't like that.
Someone has to lose in order for someone else to win, and unfortunately most people can't accept losing.
An 'everyone wins' scenario would mean every would gain positive MMR. Everyone would only climb, and MMR would be meaningless. Or any system that replaces MMR for that matter.
Technically this does exist. The killer can deign to accept 8 hooks as a win and let survivors go, and take the MMR hit in exchange. That's completely fair. The killer can still typically score a comparable amount of BP this way too. So this already exists, it just can't be legitimised and recognised any more by the system without undermining it entirely.
Again, you are still thinking of escaping as a "win", the survivors would lose if the killer won under this system by definition, even if they escape.
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@PotatoPotahto said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3538377#Comment_3538377
Then the escaping should be removed together with killing, and what's left of the game at this point
The actual fun part of the game? The chase. Or do you think holding m1 on a generator for 90 seconds, or facecamping and hard tunneling as a killer is the fun part?
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@Ch0mp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3538043#Comment_3538043
Because I don't think the game can tell you "You win!!!" enough to make four survivors running out the gate feel more like a win than no survivors running out the gate.
That's because the current win condition is to kill them. But if the game was about hooks instead of kills it would be much different.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3538042#Comment_3538042
Doesn't mean it is a good idea or the right thing to do. Stop clinging to that excuse.
"Hey all ,because of an issue with a perk interaction, we are going to buff up the numbers on this perk. Once we rework the other perk, we are going to reduce the time down"
That is not an excuse, that is literally what they said. Like it or not, it is the devs fulfilling on a plan and promise they made a long time ago.
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@FilthyLegionRevival said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3537662#Comment_3537662
Fine, what about 10 seconds of I-Frames instead of endurance if you unhook yourself when the bar is filled? Literally anything can be exploited by a SWF. We need to learn to stop giving a damn about SWFs. They're a necessary evil to playing with friends and we can't really change that.
How about we balance the game with hooks and chases instead of kills. That would make the game more fun for everyone.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3537710#Comment_3537710
This is an incredibly dumb, context-blind argument. The 3-second DS was a completely different beast to the DS that got its duration cut in half.
The only people that cling to 'it was always supposed to go back to 3 seconds!' are killer mains that just really want to be able to tunnel without any recourse for survivors.
It was literally mentioned by the devs when they buffed the duration and they said they would change it back, but never did.
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@Firellius said:
Biggest design downgrade. DS had been pruned over time to be a proper tunnelling deterrent. Could not be used offensively, relatively strong in chase, hard to counter, etc.
But OTR misses all of that finesse. It can be used offensively, gets blocked by innate BT, and can be alleviated with things like STBFL.
DS should never have had its stun duration halved.
DS was always 3 seconds for a very long time. But it was affected by enduring. Then it was buffed to 5 seconds, with the intent that, when enduring was reworked, it would get nerfed back down to 3. But it never got nerfed to 3.
The problem isn't that it was "nerfed" the problem is that the original bargain was never completed until it was put back to 3 seconds.
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@Thusly_Boned said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3537448#Comment_3537448
If you played much killer, you'd know there is a large difference between proxy camping and facecamping. One allows a reasonable opportunity for a successful unhook while the other does not.
And you can't be a successful killer without at least occasionally proxy camping. You can be a great killer and never facecamp.
Also, trying to punish proxy camping would be nearly impossible without creating massive opportunity for survivors to massively abuse the mechanic. You simply can't compel the killer to leave the entire vicinity of a hooked survivor and expect them to be able to win against any competent survivors.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3537467#Comment_3537467
Bubba is a singular facecamping problem who needs a solution specific to him.
that's simply one example.
But let me ask you a question. Why does this game need a solution to facecamping. Is it because facecamping is an effective strategy? Because i'd aruge not, facecamping, against a team that knows how to deal with it, is pretty much a loss for the killer. It isn't a "good" strategy most of the time.
So then why fix it? Well, because people still do it. But, we have already proved they don't do it because it is effective, they do it because they can.
So lets look at the "unhook yourself" mechanic. How exactly is that going to solve the problem. Sure, it "punishes" the killer. But, as i said, you unhook yourself, and they wait out the 10 second timer, or just hit you immediately, then chase you down and hard tunnel you out.
Was that really that much more fun than just getting facecamped? I'd argue that people are still gonna rage about it and DC because it isn't going to actually stop the problem. Is it going to let you at least play the game a little? Yeah probably, but you are still gonna get camped and tunneled out without being able to really do anything anyway. So you'll still be just as mad about it. So it doesn't really solve the problem.
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@FilthyLegionRevival said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3537538#Comment_3537538
If that's the case then why not have the haste be a higher value when you unhook yourself using the mechanic, then?
Because its a complicated mechanic that is more than likely going to be exploited by SWF and not actually solve the problem. Now you are just adding layers upon the problem.
The reason camping exists, is because it is possible. This anti-camping mechanic is just going to "punish" camping, which isn't going to do anything, because campers still gonna camp. Better to actually make it not possible.
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@FilthyLegionRevival said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3537467#Comment_3537467
If you legit can't utilise the speed you get from being hit during endurance to get up to the window, you are legit doing something wrong.
But the point i'm making is. Does doing this make the game any more fun for the guy getting hard facecamped and tunneled? It does not, so what is the point of this again? Facecamping is typically a BAD strategy for the killer because against good teams, they just lose. So the point of this is to fix being on the unfun end of it. But this mechanic doesn't actually do that, and just creates another scenario that is complicated, hard to figure out in a game, and abusable by SWF.
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@Biscuits said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3537467#Comment_3537467
This, they need to make it so powers are not usable within the hooks radius, nothing else will do anything at all. Even to a point of making it so Wesker can't dash to the hook, the dash will stop within 16M of the hook.
Riiiight. So even more things that SWF can use to abuse these mechanics.
Better solution? Make camping and tunneling IMPOSSIBLE. Not discouraged, or encourage not doing. Just make it flat out IMPOSSIBLE.
The best solution is to balance the game around chases and hooks instead of kills, the following would basically solve everything.
- All survivors now have a shared pool for the 1st hook state
- The 2nd and 3rd hook states are personal.
- Survivors don't go to second stage until all the shared hook states are removed.
- Remove the 4% mechanic
- Rework luck/slippery meat
- Deliverance can stay
- Rebalance the gen speed to chase time ratio, preferably by reducing chase time, not increasing gen time.
But, that is too much work. A better, actual solution to facecamping that doesn't hurt killers normally playing? Just make the damn hook work like PH cage. The survivor teleports to a different hook if the killer is within say, 16 meters for some number of seconds and not in a chase, then remove the whole "hooks permanently breaking" mechanic, so that you can always send them properly to a hook furthest from the killer.
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@Crowman said:
Because it's not meant to be an anti-camping mechanic.
It's an anti-facecamping mechanic. Killers are still allowed to defend hooks, they just won't be able to park themselves in front of the hook doing nothing else.
It won't even do that.
- Get hooked
- Leatherface facecamps
- Unhook yourself
- Leatherface chainsaws you twice in one sweep
- Get hooked again
- Why am i on the hook?
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3537443#Comment_3537443
yes. I know. m/s for survivor is cross for lunge distance and lunge speed for m1 killers. vault speed for survivor and raw m/s is other cross. strangely enough, survivor have resilience but there is no perk for killer that increases base m/s by a very small amount. either way, they're strong chasing stats that should be little careful with those.
Precisely why i think movement speeds should be kept pretty sacred and we should stop giving ways to increase or decrease it outside of killer powers that are designed to work in that way (I.E. clown bottles), and very limited things like exhaustion perks that give a quick burst of speed.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3536497#Comment_3536497
3% haste is 20% total catch-up for survivor. the haste has similar effect on killer but killer are always playing catch-up. survivor are always ahead of the killer. that is why killer's take longer catch-up because every meter of distance that survivor gets is compounded by itself.
It's more about how lunges work. Lunges work by increasing your movement speed to 6.9 m/s for 0.9 seconds. But doesn't allow for any bonus movement speeds. So a lunge max range is 6.21 meters. But, the survivors are also moving forward during that 0.9 seconds based on their movement speed, so if they are moving faster, they effectively decrease the killer's lunge range on top of also increasing the time it takes to catch up to them.
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@legion228 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3536570#Comment_3536570
i can do that tommorrow prob but the good question is..
as what killer tho
you already mentioned that nurse and blight don't care about MFT, so how about anything but those 2.
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@legion228 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3536557#Comment_3536557
im saying that because im tired of all thats circus of "pls nerf mft i cant mind game"
im iridescent 1 killer main and i dont had any problems with that perk + hope
all you need to learn how to mind game and how to use your lunge attack to get an hit
Oh, i didn't know that.
Would you be willing to upload some footage of you playing some matches to youtube? Would love to see how you are handling MFT so we can all learn from it. If you need to record game footage, you can download OBS for free (same software streamers use). You don't actually have to stream to use it, it has a record option, and from there you can upload the video straight to youtube.
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@legion228 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3536543#Comment_3536543
20%? omg so much totally cant counter this with mind games :sob:
20% is very significant. And if you are talking about mind games, you must be talking about loops. And in talking about loops, you should know that the survivor hitbox is smaller than the killer one. Basically like this.
Imagine that the black circle is a rock, and the green circle is the path the survivor takes and the red is the path the killer takes. The killer takes a longer distance around the rock because their hitbox is bigger than the survivor. Unfortunately we don't exactly by how much, but against good survivors who can tightly loop, it becomes very apparant.
When we talk about looping around structures like this, the "differences" in movement speed between the survivor and killer are already affected by the longer distance the killer has to travel around the loop. Thus any extra movement speed from the survivor is even more strong when looping.
But 20% in a straight line chase is also significant. I don't think you understand how long a straight line shift+w chase is.
For context on distances, load up a bot game as trapper, and do a max range lunge. You just traveled 6.21 meters.
Some data:
Survivor movement speed: 4.0 m/s
Survivor post hit movement speed duration: 1.8 seconds
Survivor post hit movement speed: 6.0 m/s
Killer movement speed: 4.6 m/s
Killer movement speed while lunging: 6.9 m/s
Killer lunge duration: 0.9 seconds
Killer hitbox extension: 1 meter
Killer movement speed while carrying survivor: 3.68 m/s
Killer Terror Radius: 32 meters
Killer hit cooldown: 2.7 seconds
Killer movement speed during attack cooldown: 0.575 m/s
Killer pick up speed: 3 seconds
Killer hook speed: 1.5 seconds
Generator repair speeds: 90 seconds
Average distance between hooks: 38 meters (~19 meters to a hook from any given position on average)
Average human response time: 273 ms (https://humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime)
Average map size: 9850 square meters (~99.25x99.25 meters for a square)
So, let's assume killers and survivors all spawn at opposite ends of the map. The survivors spend the first 20 seconds looking for a generator and the killer spends the first 20 seconds running to the opposite end of the map. With a killer having a 32 meter terror radius, and taking into account movement speeds and human reaction time. if we take the human reaction time and 6x it to account for figuring out the direction the killer is coming from and making sure you can run the opposite direction, the survivor will spot the killer in 1638 ms. To make math simpler let's round it up to 2 second. during this time the killer gets 9.2 meters closer. So now the killer is 22.8 meters away. During this time the survivor runs in the exact opposite direction of the killer.
Remember, no powers, no pallets, no windows, just a straight line. In order for the killer to catch up to the distance needed to lunge (killer lunge is 6.9 m/s for 0.9 seconds, survivor is moving 4.0 m/s during that time, so to land the hit, the killer must be 3.61 meters from the survivor at the start of the lunge. Let's round that to 3.5 to account for lag). This means the killer needs to close a gap of 19.3 meters, to hit the survivor The difference in movement speed between them is .6, this means the killer closes the 19.3 meter gap in 32.16 seconds. The killer then lands a hit.
The survivor then runs in a straight line and the killer is unable to move much for 2.7 seconds, only moving 1.5525 meters of distance. During 1.8 of those seconds the survivor is moving at 6 m/s and for 4 m/s for .9 seconds. This means the survivor gets 14.4 meters way. The killer now has to close a gap of 9.3 meters for a lunge. It takes the killer 15.5 seconds to catch up to the survivor and land another hit.
The killer now picks the survivor up taking 5.7 seconds (3 seconds for picking up, and 2.7 seconds for attack cooldown), /and they walk to the nearest hook about 19 meters away. This takes 5.16 seconds, lets say 5. the hooking action takes 1.5 seconds.
The time to find this survivor, hit them once, catch up, hit them again, pick them up walk to a hook and hook them took: 32.16 + 15.5 + 5.7 + 5 + 1.5 = 59.86 seconds. Or, about 60 seconds. This would mean the killer would likely lose 2 gens in the first chase. (just barely reaching the 3rd survivor before it finishes).
So, without using pallets, windows, anything at all. you are taking about 60 seconds to hit twice, down, pick up, and hook a survivor. Gens are 90 seconds. This means that you WILL lose 2-3 gens by the time you find the next survivor, and that is assuming just pure straight line hold w chases. Now when you factor in MFT making that second hit take almost 24.5 seconds instead of 15.5, now you are talking about 70 seconds.
Now get 12 hooks... Its impossible for killers who aren't nurse blight or spirit to keep up AS IT IS and that is not even factoring in perks like MFT.
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@legion228 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3536524#Comment_3536524
bro its only 4.12 and its not rly saves that much its only saves if you vs a killer who miss their lunge attacks
4.12 is quite significant. It isn't about the absolute movement speed, but the differences in movement speed between the killer and survivor.
The normal 4.6 killer and 4.0 survivor means the killer moves 0.6 m/s closer to the survivor. But with MFT, that becomes 0.48 m/s. That is a 20% decrease. Thus increasing the chase time effectively by 20%.
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@legion228 said:
forgot to say blight and nurse dont care about the made for this
And this is precisely the problem. The killers that don't care about it, are the strongest ones. and the killers hurt the most by it, are the worst ones.
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@zoozoom6 said:
nothing is worse than trying to place a flame turret and its flashing red and blue then hearing the alien approach and you still cant find the blue for more than a 1/16 of a second with the beeping from the turret getting faster and faster then you see the alien and you gingerly lower yourself to the ground and set the inactive turret on the ground only to waste a health state anyway because your locked in an animation.
please for the love of god when you press "R" with a turret have him instantly drop the turret. you can have it break on impact with the ground when you do this just give us something faster
This is the one change i agree with, with everyone around complaining about the tail and such.
I think it should stay there so another survivor (or the same one) can come pick it up, but not have it be deployed. But then if another survivor grabs say, a 5th one from a chest, it destroys the one on the ground. That way you aren't blocking people from picking up turrets.
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@Nirgendwohin said:
(killer was from denmark, usually they have pings below 80. i'm from germany with a 40 ping)
Notice the part where the tail literally collides with the survivor?
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@Lixadonna said:
Good. Tired of the regurgitated 20% nonsense Killers are obsessed with.
You realize it isn't nonsense right, it literally increases the injured chase time by 20%. The problem with MFT is not the absolute increase of movement speed, but the differences in movement speeds between survivor and killer.
Normal killer is 4.6 m/s
Normal survivor is 4 m/s
MFT survivor is 4.12 m/s
That means that MFT reduces the DIFFERENCE in movement speeds between survivor and killer by 20%.
That isn't all, but people forget that movement speed increases are more powerful on survivor than they are killer. For example, lets say an injured survivor is being chased by a killer in an imaginary infinite straight line. How long does it take the killer to catch up to them and hit them?
Base 4.6 killer/4.0 survivor = 47.5 seconds
3% extra movement on killer = 38.6 seconds
3% extra movement on survivor = 58.9 seconds.
This means that
- 3% extra movement on a killer, reduces the chase time by 8.9 seconds, or 18.7%
- 3% extra movement speed on survivor, increases the chase time by 11.4 seconds, or 19.5%
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@Steakdabait said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3536312#Comment_3536312
tail attack ignore pallet and window, lunge does not. Respect the 1v1 or people with more than 3 seconds of survivor xp will not just play survivor.
Correct, but if it goes through pallet and window, what are you doing? Vaulting, so you are stuck in an animation, so you ain't dodging it anyway. And, if it is about the "bait the window vault" then making it reactable doesn't change that, because that isn't about reactions, it is about predictions.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3536312#Comment_3536312
where does anyone say it should be reactable?
Just because it isn't reactable doesn't mean I want it to be, I just want that hitbox to be fixed the the recovery times to be fixed.
Literally that is the topic of this thread.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3536312#Comment_3536312
If turrets are reactable to break, the tail needs to be reactable to dodge. Both circumstances need to be linked. If you can't dodge, then the turret shouldn't be reaction breakable and always burn Xeno out of power. It takes ~15s to get a turret placed and back on the gen, and currently all that does is give you slightly more pre-run time at the best case scenario (against a Xeno who has played before).
The tail attack doesn't root Xeno, you can move at full speed during the .2s windup, so part of the math is wrong. But the point the math section is missing, is that lunging can only work under a fixed distance, and can't go through obstacles, such as walls and pallet stuns. Xeno tail can hit over windows/pallets, as well as threaten a hit against stun attempts, so it makes all points of safety unsafe if within range. Given that the tunnels put you right on top of gens, that isn't exactly a hard proposition to get within range in the first place.
Lol, RIGHT, you move at full speed during the .2 windup, NOT at 6.9 meters per second. Which is way faster. So the math is still correct. And that is exactly my point, you can lunge through obstacles. Like pallets and windows, and during those you are animation locked anyway, so again, the point is that you can't dodge it anyway.
You can also "Threaten a hit" in stun attempts with m1, as long as you don't lunge, your lingering hitbox will hit them even if they pallet stun you. The point is, the tail is basically a glorified m1, that can go over pallets and windows, where you are animation locked anyway. So complaining about it "not being reactable" is pointless, because if you can be hit by the tail, you are also m1able (at least you will be .6 seconds later, barely even perceivable), and you can't "dodge an m1" unless the autoaim decides to screw the killer over for some reason.
I'd argue that the turrets shouldn't exist TBH, because the tail attack isn't powerful to warrant it. If anything, the killer should always have their tail attack, and the turrets should prevent going into tunnels. Because the tunnels are what make the killer strong, not the tail.
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@SimpleTora said:
There is absolutely no excuse or reason you can give that slinger needs any of those current nerfs while Xeno is doing everything he did but better.
Slinger's TR got nerfed to a standard 32 meter radius because it was too low for a ranged killer without a lullaby. Xeno in crawler mode has a 24 meter radius and is effectively a ranged killer without a lullaby.
Slinger got a slight aiming delay because people felt his 1v1 was too strong with quickscope shots. Xeno has virtually no windup and no real punishment for missing multiple shots yet gets massively rewarded for hitting one by having virtually no cd on the tail attack and survivors make no distance.
Slinger is already a slow movement killer who has issues traversing the constantly large maps implemented Xeno has one of the quickest least strategical movement abilities in the game. Being able to constantly go in and out of tunnels AND get info while in them AND charge its power at an absurd rate even if it just lost it.
Other than sneaking up on people using M&A and his small TR slinger didn't actually do anything even remotely unfair and had a very high risk high reward kit that rewarded you for hitting shots and punished you for missing them with only addons to slightly alleviate that. (Which also got nerfed)
Xeno currently has mobility (and a stupid amount of it), ranged attack to hit over pallets and vaults, information (footsteps in tunnels), slowdown (since turrets are the only way to possibly counter the incredibly stupid crawler mode and you have to take time to set them up) the only thing it's missing to make it on par with Nurse and Blight is either incredibly stupid addons(Blight) or the ability to just ignore the basic counterplay mechanics put in the game for survivors (Nurse)
There is absolutely nothing slinger did pre-nerfs that Xeno can't do currently
Xeno is not a "ranged killer without a lullaby"
The tail range is 4.8 meters. For context, load up a game as trapper, and lunge a max distance. Congrats, you just travel 6.21 meters.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3536313#Comment_3536313
That's not at all how Survivor works. When you get average soloq Survivors you still have a chance if someone goofs off assuming the remaining 3 have skill. It is still possible to carry bad teammates who do all 5 totems and open all the chests. What I am saying is Xeno provides no chance unless everyone is worried about macro perfection, and nothing less. At the very least that is what it feels like. Even then, when someone still attempting that macro perfection gets turret grab free-hit, you can't blame them for Xeno's poor design. No other Killer lies the entire burden on macro gameplay other than so-called 'no-life' Nurses who never fail their blinks and reads on Survivor pathing.
Just because your teammates are sometimes bad, doesn't mean they should make your role overpowered to compensate for it. The problem there is your bad teammates. Name any other competitive team-based game, where having bad teammates means you should win.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3536229#Comment_3536229
He can't close distance while the Tentacle is pulled up, he can only lose or tie in distance. If he is zoning then yes he can close the distance, but at the cost of a free escape if he misses the whip, or cancels it. If in Shack you play doe-si-doe with him in-between the window and Pallet. If he drops the tentacle, you take the closer of a medium vault at window or drop the pallet. You as Survivor (on average) spent .25s visual reacting, .9s Medium vaulting (or shorter dropping the pallet), so he is left with a max of .35s to do nothing while you took the escape route.
I don't think Killers should all be normalized to the exact same timers, but they should be normalized to be in the realm of fair counterplay. Huntress slows to 3.08 with a hatchet drawn, Nemmy slows to 3.8/4.0, Demo Slows to 3.86. Huntress has a 2s wind down CD, Nemmy has a 1.5s wind down CD, Demo has a .45s wind down CD. Each are for the most part fair in their implementations. Xeno is not. That is the issue. Edit: Demo's wind down of .45s is the least fair of those 3 Killer's examples, but with the needless nerf to his Iri add-on, I'd leave it in for now.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3536241#Comment_3536241
I can't speak for everyone else, I can only speak for myself. I won 3 games the other day at 5 gens (as Sing while cleaning up his tomes) because the Survivors were so outclassed by the continuous pressure I was able to output with a good Lethal Pursuer and multiple goo-tags/injuries early.
As far as longer than 2s to retag, I can tell for sure you haven't played him because that is about exactly how long it takes other than on maps like Lerys (assuming you have skill as Sing). I even recommended QoL buffs for him to smooth out the new player experience so more people could play and understand him. When I play him he actually feels like I need skill to utilize him, unlike many others among the cast that other people would make that claim for.
I have an "easy win" button, 2 in fact, they are Blight and Nurse (Spirit too before I had too heavy of hearing damage). When I want to win without trying, I use them. As Survivor, I just want to complete my tomes without wanting to tear my hair out from unenjoyable circumstances. I completed my tomes, so I'm not playing DBD in soloq until they 'fix' Xeno.
The problem with Xeno, is the Survivor sided gameplay is exclusively macro oriented. Every member of the team has to be doing the exact correct thing at all times, or you lose (assuming it isn't a baby Xeno). Soloq means you have an average of 1.5 Survivors (that aren't you) NOT doing that, and an average of a third of those (original 1.5, so .5 average) players are actively hurting the team instead. You can't win in chase with the mythical 372 gen chase because you outplayed the Killer at every loop. You will go down, so you can only macro play to delay how long it takes, and how far from hook you can get yourself downed. This is why I refer to Xeno as a boring flowchart Killer, because you can only pick the longest flowchart path (or some people are taking the shortest to go next) if you want to go against them.
That is how survivors work. Survivors are 4 people, if they work together well, they win, if they don't, they lose. That is literally how the survivor role is designed. If the game was "balanced" in a 1v1, the killer would never win.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/390645/xenos-m2-is-impossible-to-react-to
You can DH on reaction
You can't dodge on reaction
@Pulsar said:
You can DH on reaction IF you have good ping and the Killer has good ping.
You cannot dodge on reaction because you can't move fast enough to avoid the hitbox.
@Steakdabait said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/ISJKAXWJY9M1/70ac52e36ecb3ced8afde8b12d057c75.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/73DZLT73YKR5/c23ad2b1f6831ee68850c83c85af127a.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/VMS4C2O8U114/12dyp0q3v8w61.jpg
You're not getting out of the hitbox in 0.03 seconds my friend
Here's a better question that nobody thought to ask. WHY should it be reactable?
Here is some math for you.
A killer's lunge makes them move at 6.9 m/s for 0.9 seconds, and their hitbox extends out by about 1 meter. In 0.9 seconds, a survivor can move 3.6 meters. This means that the killer's max range to hit that lunge from a running survivor is 3.61 meters.
The tail attack has a 0.2 second windup, during this time a survivor can move 0.8 meters. It has a 4.8 meter range. This means that the killer needs to be 4 meters away from them to hit them. The difference between 40 meters and 3.61 meters in a chase, is literally .66 seconds, almost exactly. It is 0.39 meters. And the differences in movement speed between a survivor and killer is 0.6 meters per second.
So the tail attack is "saving" the killer, less than a second in a chase. While also having a smaller hitbox, and is much easier to miss and mess up the attack.
So again i ask, WHY should it be reactable? It isn't much different in speed and distance and timing than a normal killer lunge. Where the tail gets its power, is that it can hit over and through things, like windows, and pallets. Which, if you are doing that, you aren't able to dodge anyway because you are stuck in an animation.
EDIT: I was wrong, the range is actually 4.8 meters, not 5, making my point even more.
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@NAERUUU said:
Alright, addons pass on Hillbilly is on the way with plenty of changes !
Probably after the Twins rework and before the nightmare rework !
But ... hey ... instasaw back ?
Like the good old times :) ?
You got any context on this? I checked news and twitter and there is nothing.
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@OneNineTwoNine said:
Let's first define toxicity, so that we're on the same page:
- Slugging a survivor and bleeding them out for 4 minutes
- Camping and tunneling on purpose to be toxic (Camping and tunneling isn't always toxic)
- T-bagging in the exit gate and or doing rushed actions to get the killers attention when they've lost
- Hitting on hook (This depends on the context)
- Being nasty in the end game chat
Any time a survivor or killer is seen doing these things, the general consensus is to "grow thicker skin" and "get over it" however, this is just not helpful. I find myself trying to ignore these things, but when they happen over and over, it is THE one thing that makes me want to Alt + F4. And I'm not the only one.
There are other games where this type of behavior is not allowed and where you can even be banned for it. Why is that not the case here? Why doesn't BHVR try to at least encourage people to be good sports and be kind to the people they face?
The killer you just demolished is a real person, with feelings. You don't have to rub it in. Neither do you need to rub it in when you tunnel one person out of the game at 5 gens and hit them on hook as they die, only to tell them "loop better" in the end game chat.
I know, I sound like I'm whining. And yeah, I am. It's because I just cannot understand why this has been going on for so long and still no attempt has been made to try to rectify the problem. Toxicity is a very detrimental thing to online games, but also mental health.
It keeps people who simply do not have the means to "have thick skin" from playing a game they bought and are trying to enjoy. I can personally say that the one thing burning me out of this game is not the sweaty "high MMR" players who 4k or escape every match, it's the toxic ones that go out of their way to ruin my gameplay experience.
It's not difficult to be a kind person. There is no excuse and it should be cracked down on.
We disagree on toxicity
- Slugging a survivor and bleeding them out for 4 minutes
- Sometimes this can't be helped. At least once or twice a day, i get someone who is the last survivor, all the other survivors are dead, and they crawl to a corner making them unhookable. So, now i risk leaving them, looking for the hatch, and maybe they find it. Or i pick them up, let them wiggle off, and look for the hatch. The only way to make sure i get them at that point, is to let them bleed out.
- Camping and tunneling on purpose to be toxic (Camping and tunneling isn't always toxic)
- Camping and tunneling, even on purpose, is not toxic. Sometimes camping and tunneling are the most effective strategies to win a game. And if that is the case, you should not be getting mad at the player for employing it, you should be mad at the devs for allowing it.
- T-bagging in the exit gate and or doing rushed actions to get the killers attention when they've lost
- I agree with you on this one, but mostly because its just wasting everyone's time.
- Hitting on hook (This depends on the context)
- Again, context is important, but several survivors have extremely loud screams and i hit them to stop it.
- Being nasty in the end game chat
- This one i agree with you.
You need to stop thinking that actions someone is doing in the game is "toxic" using a strategy to win, even if you don't like it, is not toxic. It is playing to win. And if you think camping or tunneling is "toxic" then you are by definition a "scrub" I don't mean that in a derogatory sense, but in a definitional sense. I suggest reading the free e-book by game designer David Sirlin, "Playing to Win", https://www.sirlin.net/ptw here is in excerpt from that book.
The derogatory term “scrub” means several different things. One definition is someone (especially a game player) who is not good at something (especially a game). By this definition, we all start out as scrubs, and there is certainly no shame in that. I mean the term differently, though. A scrub is a player who is handicapped by self-imposed rules that the game knows nothing about. A scrub does not play to win.
Now, everyone begins as a poor player—it takes time to learn a game to get to a point where you know what you’re doing. There is the mistaken notion, though, that by merely continuing to play or “learn” the game, one can become a top player. In reality, the “scrub” has many more mental obstacles to overcome than anything actually going on during the game. The scrub has lost the game even before it starts. He’s lost the game even before deciding which game to play. His problem? He does not play to win.
The scrub would take great issue with this statement for he usually believes that he is playing to win, but he is bound up by an intricate construct of fictitious rules that prevents him from ever truly competing. These made-up rules vary from game to game, of course, but their character remains constant. Let’s take a fighting game off of which I’ve made my gaming career: Street Fighter.
In Street Fighter, the scrub labels a wide variety of tactics and situations “cheap.” This “cheapness” is truly the mantra of the scrub. Performing a throw on someone is often called cheap. A throw is a special kind of move that grabs an opponent and damages him, even when the opponent is defending against all other kinds of attacks. The entire purpose of the throw is to be able to damage an opponent who sits and blocks and doesn’t attack. As far as the game is concerned, throwing is an integral part of the design—it’s meant to be there—yet the scrub has constructed his own set of principles in his mind that state he should be totally impervious to all attacks while blocking. The scrub thinks of blocking as a kind of magic shield that will protect him indefinitely. Why? Exploring the reasoning is futile since the notion is ridiculous from the start.
You will not see a classic scrub throw his opponent five times in a row. But why not? What if doing so is strategically the sequence of moves that optimizes his chances of winning? Here we’ve encountered our first clash: the scrub is only willing to play to win within his own made-up mental set of rules. These rules can be staggeringly arbitrary. If you beat a scrub by throwing projectile attacks at him, keeping your distance and preventing him from getting near you—that’s cheap. If you throw him repeatedly, that’s cheap, too. We’ve covered that one. If you block for fifty seconds doing no moves, that’s cheap. Nearly anything you do that ends up making you win is a prime candidate for being called cheap. Street Fighter was just one example; I could have picked any competitive game at all.
Doing one move or sequence over and over and over is a tactic close to my heart that often elicits the call of the scrub. This goes right to the heart of the matter: why can the scrub not defeat something so obvious and telegraphed as a single move done over and over? Is he such a poor player that he can’t counter that move? And if the move is, for whatever reason, extremely difficult to counter, then wouldn’t I be a fool for not using that move? The first step in becoming a top player is the realization that playing to win means doing whatever most increases your chances of winning. That is true by definition of playing to win. The game knows no rules of “honor” or of “cheapness.” The game only knows winning and losing.
A common call of the scrub is to cry that the kind of play in which one tries to win at all costs is “boring” or “not fun.” Who knows what objective the scrub has, but we know his objective is not truly to win. Yours is. Your objective is good and right and true, and let no one tell you otherwise. You have the power to dispatch those who would tell you otherwise, anyway. Simply beat them.
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@caipt said:
I think we can all agree that this perk is overtuned. At the very least, the endurance should not be lumped in with an already powerful effect. If and how would you change made for this to be a more balanced and/or healthy perk?
I think I would give the haste while healthy instead of injured so you need to heal for value+punishes you for a bad play rather than rewarding you+remove haste stacking+remove endurance effect entirely. Or I would make the haste ramp up from 0-3 over 30s.
There are a couple ways you can go about it. The question is, should the speed boost be permanent or should it be temporary?
If you want the speed boost to be permanent, i would do the following:
- Remove the endurance effect
- MFT increases your movement speed while injured by 1.5% for each time you have been hooked
- When it is active, you are shown to have a "woosh" effect around you, so the killer knows you have MFT.
- Deactivates in endgame (to prevent hope stacking)
This would make it so it doesn't take effect on the first hook, similar to old deadhard, and extending that first chase far more than it should, if this makes the perk too weak (per data) i'd consider removing the "while injured" requirement.
If you want the speed boost to be temporary, i would do the following:
- Remove the endurance effect
- Remove the exhaustion aspect of the perk
- When injured MFT activates for 60 seconds
- During its time period, you are shown to have a "woosh" effect around you, so the killer knows you have MFT.
- When you are healed, MFT deactivates and keeps its duration
- Being in the terror radius and not chased each second gains 1 second of MFT duration, to a maximum of 60 seconds
- Basically make it work like lucky break.
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@okaayletsgoo said:
This perk is an huge problem and needs some kind of nerf. Killers like blight and nurse who are already strong become unbeatable when they have UW on. They can traverse the map so quickly plus a overwhelming pressure and you will never have a place to hide or be stealthy. 3 games, 3 5 gens. The timing needs a nerf drastically. Like cut in half
We should not be making balance decisions on perks because of nurse and blight. They are their own problem and shouldn't cause perks to get nerfed. The base killer needs changes.
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@Sava18 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3527936#Comment_3527936
That guy is beyond survivor biased, it's useless to converse with him.
I realized that when they were trying to convince me that the superbowl does have "RNG" because the "hail mary" play exists.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3531424#Comment_3531424
Sure it is. Hail Marys are basically pure random chance. Some players have a little better chance at it then others, but its a jump ball, sometimes you get it, usually you don't.
Let's take something else from football, fumbles. A running back will fumble on average once every 120 times they touch the ball. Maybe that fumble occurs in the Superbowl, maybe it occurs in an average game.
And football coaches constantly talk about percentiles (how likely we were to succeed). Even if you put the percentiles in your favor, sometimes you still lose.
That's not how random chance works. The players are still acting out the game, just because it has a "low chance" of working, doesn't make it "RNG". Your example is flawed and only works if they used like madden or something to simulate a match against the 2 teams, setup one to do a hail mary, and have the cpu play it out, then if it works they give the team the points.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3527936#Comment_3527936
How about we just have the superbowl team that loses, play a guess the number game, and if they guess the number right, they automatically win regardless of how badly they played.You mean like a hail merry or a 60+ yard field goal?
The hail merry is actually a great example. The losing team gets to chuck the ball down the field in an extremely low chance play that's really just random chance. No coach would try such a play unless it was desperation (end of the game) or low risk (end of a half). It's not a testament of skill, its just a jump ball that gives the losing team a chance to win the game at the very end.
But a game of football would be a lot more boring if that didn't exist.
4% is actually really similar. It only has any meaning if its been a competitive game (if you escape the hook and there are still 3 gens to do it doesn't really mean anything) and it gives a chance for the losing side to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat.
I actually think American football shows why RNG makes games fun and entertaining.
That's not random chance, the players use their skill to do it or the other team fails to defend against it. That doesn't mean it is "RNG"
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@coco_shotz said:
Quit tunneling on a brand new killer when it's 5 gens. This is supposed to be one of the only times we actually play chill to learn the new mechanics. I literally can't even play the game half the time anymore and I just wanna see the bleeping killer FOR BLEEPS SAKE
If that game was balanced around hooks and chases instead of kills, this wouldn't happen.
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@MalevolentGhoster said:
Im just curious about blight changes since the patch 5.0.0. And never heard any changes since then, and i’m still seeing people telling bhvr to nerf blight
They are balancing the game around average players. Thus, blight is fine. It's what everyone seems to want for some reason.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3529692#Comment_3529692
I love how people constantly use awful assumptions to make a 3% skill suddenly into a 20% number instead.
When it was dead hard, it was 'it extends chase by 45 second OMG' because that made it sound as evil as possible. Why not use a number of seconds? It's it because an extra .45 seconds sounds really pitiful, like it really is?
Oh, right, people deliberately do math where bloodlust and killer powers don't exist. Now I remember.
Its almost like the perk is devastating to killers like, trapper, legion, doctor, pig, myers etc. And completely useless against, nurse, blight, spirit. You know, so the top tier killers don't care, and the bottom tier ones are destroyed by it. So nerfing it isn't going to change the dynamic.
Dead hard for distance was OP, plain and simple. It basically guaranteed a chase to be extended for a 3rd health state when we are talking about good survivors.
Same with dead hard with endurance, it created the same problem the old dead hard did, we you end up in a situation where, you have no option at a pallet, you either swing and eat the dead hard, or don't swing and eat the pallet. Also the counter to old dead hard, was just to hard tunnel, so not really a fun dynamic.
Also similar to buckle up +FTP which i suspect will get changed soon as well.
The 20% number of MFT is in fact accurate because what matters is not the absolute 3% movement speed, but the difference in movement speeds between the killer and the survivor. yeah, moving from 4.0 m/s to 4.12 m/s doesn't sound like a lot, it means that over the course of 60 seconds, you moved a whole 7.2 meters further. Hardly anything to write home about (for context a killer lunge is about 6.21 meters).
But what matters is the differences in movement speeds between a survivor and a killer.
Without MFT, a 4.6 killer and a 4.0 survivor is a 0.6 m/s difference. Meaning to hit a survivor who is just 10 meters away, it takes a killer about 11 seconds to hit that survivor.
Now when you look at MFT it makes a 4.6 killer and a 4.12 survivor is a 0.48 m/s difference. Meaning to hit a survivor who is just 10 meters away it takes the killer 13.5 seconds to hit that survivor.
0.48 vs 0.6 is a 20% difference. It is very significant.
Obviously killer powers exist, and things like nurse and blight exist. But MFT isn't a problem against those killers. The ones that are hurting the most are the ones that are already hurting.
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@Raconteurminator said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3529446#Comment_3529446
I'm sorry, but your entire argument just seems so nebulous to me. "My idea would work because we could just [do a nondescript thing] to balance [non-specific area of a non-specific map for every Killer]." I'm trying to focus on actual details, but your responses are, "It doesn't matter about X if Y." All I can do is focus on a few specific things, like generator speeds, because that's all you've given me. The rest of your ideas and suggestions remain firmly in your head where I can't see them. I'm just responding to what I can see, friend.
You haven't actually provided any details yourself. You just keep saying "you are wrong". obviously the things i propose would require tons of testing. That is what PTB is for, this game also can have patches. Its not like they change it, and then never change anything ever again.
What i'm saying is, the game would be in a much healthier state for ALL players, survivors, killers, new players, veteran players and everyone in between, if the game was balanced around going for lots of chases and getting lots of hooks, instead of just rushing for a kill as fast as possible.
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@Raconteurminator said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3529016#Comment_3529016
The balance you want to achieve is done by slowing the game to a crawl, to the point of stagnation even. If you wanted to balance generator speeds around Killers being required to get 8 hooks and 0 kills to win, then those generator speeds would have to be as slow as molasses to account for all four Survivors being alive the entire game. To prevent a Killer from scoring a kill and disturbing that balance, what would you do? They can't stand too long in a certain place or you'll have to punish them, they can't tunnel someone or you'll have to punish them, they won't be able to slug or you'll have to punish them.
To balance the game to your satisfaction would be to bore Survivors rigid and remove any autonomy the Killer has outside of chase. What would Survivor do? Generators now take too long and chases would only make them take even longer. They're going to avoid chases at all costs and spend even longer holding M1. At that point, Survivors won't want to play the game and Killers may as well be replaced by bots because their level of interaction will have become infinitely more linear and just as engaging as holding M1 on a generator for several minutes at a time.
What's ultimately better: a flawed game where there is choice and variety or a game so balanced that neither choice nor variety can exist for fear of disturbing that balance?
That's where you are wrong, it isn't about generator speeds in a vacuum. It is about the generator speed to chase time ratio. If survivors can do gens in 30 seconds, but a chase and a hook takes you 5 seconds, then it doesn't matter how fast the gens go.
I actually want to live in a world where survivors spend LESS time on gens, and more time moving around the map and interacting with the killer.
You can achieve this by nerfing certain setups and tiles to be more manageable, and by giving survivors a secondary objective, such as (find a generator part before repairing a generator) and now you can make gen times actually shorter. Rather than sit and hold m1 for 90 seconds, you spend the same 90 seconds to repair a gen, but you do so by moving around the map, finding a generator part, taking it to the generator, THEN spending some much shorter amount of time "holding m1" on the gen, but you still spent the same amount of time on the gen. And in moving around the map, you increase the odds of you running into, and thus interacting with, the killer.
This is just one idea of many, but there are plenty of ways you can handle this. The problem is you are looking at gen times in a vacuum, when again, it is about the ratio between how long the survivor objective takes to complete, to how long the killer one takes to complete.
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@Raconteurminator said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3528078#Comment_3528078
"Do you prefer a world where tunneling and camping are the optimal strategy the vast majority of the time? Or would you prefer a game where individual skills, mindgames, and diverse play are the optimal strategy?"
Out of that choice, I would prefer the world where tunnelling and camping are the optimal strategies because the second world can't exist as you've tried to sell it to me. A more balanced, fun and fair world can exist, I don't doubt that, but I don't see yours as being it.
Care to explain further?
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@LadyOwO said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3528553#Comment_3528553
"Fine" as in they barely delay the alien or affect it at all? Because that's what they do currently
@Feneroe said:
The turrets feel fine to me.
@LadyOwO said:
The turrets are completely useless.
@playhard said:
Box must be Only can opened 1 times only by survivor.
Flamethrower really degenerate Xenomorph Power
With box can be always open by survivor they can consume flamethrower over and over again too many times.
Generally we have, survivors think the turret is useless, and alien thinks the turret is too strong.
That means it is probably nicely balanced currently.
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@Xxjwaynexx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3527970#Comment_3527970
Way off topic but as a fellow nurse main, how would you rework nurse.
There's basically 2 ways you can go about it, in a way that keeps her identity as the killer that "teleports"
- Option 1: You keep her power really strong, but limit it, similar to oni.
- Her movement speed is increased to 4.6
- Her power is locked behind a power gauge that slowly fills up passively.
- Once her power fills up, she gets her power for some number of seconds (maybe 60).
- Survivors are given some kind of thing scattered around the map that they can interact with that will reduce her power gauge by some percentage (but not take her out of it if it is full).
- Survivors are able to see the aura of these interactable objects.
- When the nurses power gauge is filled up, the survivors and the nurse start coughing, giving away their location to the nurse.
- The coughing also causes the nurses location to be revealed periodically to survivors.
- The coughing works similar to screams/clowns gas in terms of revealing locations.
- Survivors are given some kind of mechanic to know how close she is to getting her power, maybe a gauge around their portraits?
- Rework her addons to work with these mechanics.
This would give her some map pressure in that survivors will have a secondary objective to keep her out of her power. But, if she gets her power, she will be EXTREMELY strong for a few seconds, still moving very fast (she stays 4.6), she has her blinks and all that it entails. But the survivors are periodically shown her location, but she also sees their location. Survivors can interact with this map objective that will keep her out of her power, or drastically shorten the duration if she gets into it. So basically, she's a plain m1 killer, but if you don't stop her from getting her power, she is an unstoppable juggernaut.
- Option 2: You weaken her power significantly, but let her use it more often.
- Increase her movement speed to 4.0 m/s (same as survivor)
- Terror radius is reduced to 4 meters (or maybe even 0) (was 32 meters)
- The nurse now has a 24 meter lullaby (did not exist).
- Give her back basic attack on her blink attacks (the lullaby solves the exposed/starstruck problem)
- Blink stays exactly as it is now except for the following changes:
- Maximum Blink range: 10 meters (was 20 meters)
- Maximum chain blink range: 8 meters (was 12 meters) chain blink duration stays the same, this means you can let it go earlier, but if you can still wait a bit longer to guarantee max range for lower skill players.
- Base Fatigue duration: 3 seconds (was 2 seconds)
- Chain blink penalty 0 seconds (was 0.5 seconds)
- Blink attack penalty 0 seconds (was 1 second)
- Hitting a survivor during a blink attack skips the fatigue phase (you still have to go through the 2.7 second wipe animation like normal)
- Hitting a survivor with a blink attack fills her power gauge by some percentage [33%?] (see below)
- Blink no longer has charges (old nurse)
- Blink speed normalized to 10 m/s (used to be based on charge duration from 6-13.3 m/s)
- Nurse gains a secondary ability "Spirit Walk" (or whatever name)
- This ability is activated using the secondary action button.
- Spirit walk slowly charges up over 45 seconds.
- Once fully charged, the nurse can activate it, when activated:
- The nurse charges a special blink that shows an icon similar to "Plaid Flannel" addon currently works.
- The range of this blink is global, meaning she can teleport anywhere on the map.
- The nurse is unable to do a chain blink from this special blink.
- The nurse is unable to do an attack out of this special blink, and will be forced to go into fatigue 1.5 seconds after she arrives at her destination.
- If the nurse collides (or gets within a couple meters) of a survivor during this blink, they scream, and their aura will be revealed for a few seconds [5?].
- The nurse can cancel charging this blink.
- The nurse can cancel the blink while she is teleporting at any time, but still will take the fatigue.
- Rework the 3 blink addon to:
- She now has 0 blinks
- She keeps the special blink
- Hitting with a basic attack now charges her special blink
- Her movement speed is increased to 4.6,
- She permanently sees the aura of all survivors outside of her terror radius.
- Rework other addons as needed to work with new mechnaics.
This list is much longer, but basically. She keeps her blink, but its range is shortened to a maximum of 18 meters for both blinks. Instead of a terror radius, she has a shorter, 24 meter lullaby. This makes it so she is able to blink on you very suddenly and quickly, which is necessary because her movement speed is 4.0 m/s, same speed as a survivor.
If she misses with a blink, the survivor will get a full 12 meters of distance on her, and she won't be able to do a fully charged a blink for 1.5 seconds (current charge) during which the survivor will now be nearly at max range. Making it BARELY possible for the nurse to max range a blink and still be close enough to hit a survivor.
To counteract the fact that she loses mobility and map pressure from the shorter blink distance, she gets a new global blink on a cooldown that she can earn more of by hitting survivors. If her path, or end duration is close to a survivor, she can cancel it early, and see the survivor's aura just long enough to probably hit them with a blink attack after her fatigue.
If she hits a survivor with a blink strike, she doesn't get fatigue, again giving her barely enough time to do a max range blink and hit the survivor a second time (if they let her)
There are many other ways to rework her, but one of these 2 roughly is how i would do it. Basically, she keeps her really strong power, but it is time limited/the survivors can take it away, and outside of that power she is just a standard m1 killer. Or, her power is significantly weakened, but now she can use it much more often and it is a little less punishing to miss with it for newer players. She is given a global blink to allow her some map pressure, and basically she becomes a hit and run killer.
- Option 1: You keep her power really strong, but limit it, similar to oni.
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@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3527936#Comment_3527936
Yes because the side losing can also win by RNG, and vice versa
Name one mechanic that allows a killer to win a game due to RNG, and you can't say something like pig traps, because that is normalized RNG (I.E. same number of box searches for all the traps)
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@DEMONANCE said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3528078#Comment_3528078
that just feels it'd require dbd to be redone completely
Not really, most of it is numbers tweaks, and then tweaking of the map gen to not spawn broken loops, nerf a few of the ridiculous structures (fun bus, garden of joy window, etc.) and you'll have a much more balanced game.
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@jarjargist21 said:
The tail hitbox are broken and he feels slow and slow killers aren't really fun for killer mains. But he is enjoyable
I give it a low A tier but he needs improvements with the hitboxes.
All in all pretty good chapter
"The hitbox is broken, and he isn't fun, but he is fun"
huh?