Reinami
Reinami
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- Reinami
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@dbdthegame said:
I can't be the only one. What happened?
Just checked and yeah, looks like mine is missing as well.
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@Boons123 said:
Generators are very boring, nothing interesting about them except that it is the only way to escape , all that happens is just pressing a button and seeing the tape slowly advance
And you keep repeating this thing several times (watching the tape progress slowly) , 7 years have passed and nothing has changed in generators except an increase in repair time, nothing more
I think it's time to do something about it
"The survivors repair the generators very quickly! " This doesn't change anything and I think that's the only fun thing about generators, which is watching the tape progress quickly but it's very little fun
Please we don't want to wait another five years
Blame the survivors themselves. Anytime anything comes out the requires them to NOT work on generators in order to win, it gets complained about.
See:
- Ruin+undying being viable
- Pentimento
- Wesker
- Sadako
- Wraith
- Pinhead
- Skull Merchant
- Etc.
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@grandpa_general said:
Anyone who says otherwise has a huge skill issue. Perhaps custom games is a better alternative for you?
Made for this extends a chase time by 20%, even longer if you loop around a rock.
People forget that movement speed increases are far stronger on survivor than they are killer.
I don't get the hate for ultimate weapon, the cooldown on it is so long that you don't end up getting that much more use out of it than you would just walking around naturally or using better detection perks like BBQ or nowhere to hide.
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@egg_ said:
Do you take gen defence and think it's needed as nurse too?
Your answer will make me decide whether to take you seriously or not
Ps not like using nowhere to hide or floods of rage instead of gen defence will make me take any nurse player more seriously
Nurse is the exception, as a nurse main who can't remember the last time i lost a match with her, and thats with just taking random ass perks, i think she is a problem for the game. But we should not be making balance decisions based on nurse. It is easier to buff killers as a whole, and then nerf the 3 killers that are a problem, than it is to buff 25+ killers individually.
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@Timmylaw said:
Corrupt is typically the only gen slowdown I bring. Sometimes pop, that's it. I win most of my matches. You're lacking in your macro gameplay if you feel you have to run 4 slowdown perks to win.
Spread pressure, don't chase into dead zones, don't over commit to chases. If you haven't gotten a pallet burned or a hit within 20 seconds leave the chase. Stick to one half of the map. Something is likely wrong if you feel you need 4 slowdowns, or you're newer to the game. Info perks are amazing.
I have over 3k hours in the game
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@Hex_Llama said:
I had this back to back. The Wraith runs Sloppy Butcher, Knockout and two other perks. They run around the map slugging people. It takes a long time to find the slugs with Knockout and a long time to heal from injured.
In the first match, I focused on picking people up, but then nobody was on the gens and it was just a war of attrition until we bled out.
In the second match, I focused on gens, but then everyone was down and the people who were up were always injured. We made more gen progress before we died, but the match was over sooner.
What's the correct thing to do?
The same thing these killers have to do against MFT and other broken survivor perks. You just lose, or you get in a 4 stack and enjoy getting 50+ perks from discord.
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@Krazzik said:
Looking at the most recent statistics it appears that Self-Care is the 6th most popular survivor perk with a 15% pick rate across all survivors.
Why is this?
It's widely considered a terrible perk that encourages survivors to play worse and waste time when they could be doing gens or just looking for other survivors to help heal them. Alternatively you could run Inner Healing which you can prepare before you're injured to then heal yourself quickly. Also you can STILL run a medkit with two heals on it to heal yourself with.
Sloppy Butcher is the 4th most popular killer perk, with a 15% pick rate and makes Self-Care waste even MORE time, especially if you get interupted and chased off.
With the nerf to medkits, Self-Care + Botany isn't actually that much slower than healing yourself with a medkit, but Botany isn't in the top 10 which seems to imply many people running Self-Care do so without anything to help speed it up.
What do you think? Is Self-Care good? Bad? Why do you think so many people still run it, and do you think people would still run it if it was nerfed even more?
Different regions have different metas. In asia it is super popular because the meta there is not around looping or pallets but on hide and seek. Killers tend to take perks that help them locate survivors, and survivors tend to take perks that allow them to hide from killers. Self-care is very popular there because of that, you can get hit, hide from the killer, and immediately start healing when they go to look for someone else (which is hard to do because the meta revolves around hiding)
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@bobateo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3559386#Comment_3559386
Do you find you get decent speeds with that combo? I've tried it with botany, but personally find the time sink way too painful to bother.
Self-care + botany is faster than old self-care, Combining other stuff you can get the self-care down to faster than medkit if you have a whole build for it.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3559341#Comment_3559341
The problem is you cannot really go for one of them only, depending on how much bigger the impact on other levels of players is you need to correct things. So the goal should be the most balanced results for players of all skill levels combined.
The problem is if you only balance for really good players you might make it harder for worse players or even for beginners.
If you only balance for the average players you might impact better or worse players much more then intended.
And lastly balancing for completely new players is always hard because those guys have no clue what they are doing but you also don't want to make it so getting started in the game is too hard because then people will just stop playing...
So in that sense your question already makes it seem like you don't understand the problem. Even games like Starcraft 2 and Dota take into account the effects balancing changes have on different skilled groups of players, and those are not asymmetrical games which makes the whole thing even harder, because at least there both sides can use the broken stuff. So no we don't balance for only one group of players, we try to make the game overall more balanced... It is fairly simple isn't it?
The problem is if you only balance for really good players you might make it harder for worse players or even for beginners.
This is incorrect. There are things that can be done that actually can nerf survivors at a high level without hurting low level survivor players. As well as nerfing killers at a lower level without hurting high level gameplay.
Here is a video that explains the concept for TF2.. Specifically i timestamped the point where the person talks about the B.A.S.E. Jumper item. Yes, this is not for DBD it is for another game, but the concept transfers over as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1p42KtZOCw&t=203sBHVR also has done this before, and done it WELL. The old Ruin, and i mean the old old ruin. You remember the one?
This version of ruin was a NIGHTMARE for low skill survivors. These survivors can barely even hit skill checks at all, let alone forcing them to hit a GREAT skill check or lose 5% progress on the gen. This led to a meta where those of us (i say us because at the time i was one of them) couldn't actually do gens when ruin was up and instead we "gen tapped" to make sure we didn't get skill checks because we just couldn't do them.
However, in high level play, this version of ruin wasn't really that big of a deal. High level survivors pretty much memorized most totem spawn locations and logic, so they could usually find it within a minute or 2 of the match starting, and even if they didn't, they could easily hit great skill checks all the time, meaning that the value of this was heavily lost at high level play.
Enter patch 3.5.0 which change ruin, and for the better.
This version of ruin was actually really good against high level survivors, because, in theory, high level survivors are going against high level killers. And now the killers could use ruin in order to pressure survivors off of gens and actually get significant use out of the perk. It wasn't much long where we got undying as well, which helped against these players memorizing the totem spots.
However, in low level survivor gameplay, the killers weren't as good, and they weren't able to pressure multiple survivors to get so much value out of the perk.
So, there are plenty of things you could do to nerf survivors at a high level. For example, and i'm not saying they should do this, BUT THIS IS AN EXAMPLE:
Imagine a world where shack was nerfed. What would this do? Currently, really skilled survivors can waste 30 seconds or more (if the killer tries to mindgame) of a killer's time at shack before the pallet is dropped. But what are low level survivors doing? They are predropping the pallet, and getting hit anyway. So if you nerfed shack, to maybe be more like say, the dead dog one, where it is a much more balanced mindgameable loop. Or you made it so you can't see through the shack anymore, making actual mindgames possible. Then this wouldn't hurt the low level players, because they are busy predropping the pallet anyway, and the killers they are playing against aren't employing complicated mindgames.
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@buckk0097 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3559283#Comment_3559283
you confused me in more ways than one. you are literally using the profile picture of a killer who cause normal perks to get nerfed time and time again so i dont see the point
Yeah, i main nurse. I also think she is a problem for the game. Are you thinking it isn't possible for both of these things to be true at the same time? I think in general that the BIGGER problem based on simply play rates, is to deal with the fact that around 20-25+ killers are completely unviable at high MMR is more pertinent. And then of course dealing with the 3 killers that are a problem. The rest are relatively okish right now.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3559308#Comment_3559308
My man, they played not against a comp player playing skull merchant but some random guy with like 1 k hours, and you are seriously telling me that in a somewhat balanced game some random player that kicks gens for an hour should be able to beat the best comp team in the world? Or at least stall for them for this amount of time? In the end it is not even necessarily about them still winning in the end but the fact that the game lasted that long... Also nobody wants to balance around comp level of DBD, that's not even a question, but there is still a difference between experienced/good/really good players and comp players.
Please answer the question.
- Should the game be balanced around high level players
- Should the game be balanced around average skill players
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3559191#Comment_3559191
It rewarded the killer for leaving hooks and chasing different survivors.
It was healthy for the game.
Exactly, i think ruin + undying was the healthiest this game has ever been in terms of "Fun gameplay" it required the killer to actively not camp and tunnel in order to get value out of it, and encouraged pressuring multiple survivors.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3559193#Comment_3559193
What exactly made you assume that? Because even a good survivor will have a hell of a hard time with 8% less speed... for example.
this line
I mean even Team Eternal took quite some time to break the 3 gen in the showmatch and it was almost a 1 hour long match, all while being a comp team with coms and arguably the best dbd players around.Implies that you think that we shouldn't balance around what comp teams can do. Because you said that SM was "problematic" despite the fact that said team was able to beat her.
So question then.
Should the game be balanced around the highest level players? Or the average ones?
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@rvzrvzrvz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3558945#Comment_3558945
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3558946#Comment_3558946
You can do it already but without ruin, replace it with any hex perks it works fine depending on the map
I do full hex builds like undying-devour hope-plaything-pentimento it's viable, even better with passive slowdowns on sadako/pinhead, hex blood favor on pig or hex lullaby on doctor/freddy, risky builds ever when it works it's gg
keyword there, plaything.
Pentimento is not good unless you are running plaything because all you have to do is pay attention to where the bubbles are, and you can immediately know where to go to cleanse it. And it's only good with plaything because you are going to get a lot more wasted time out of it.
Additionally, the original complaint of ruin + undying + pentimento.
Yeah ok, so you cleanse 4 totems (2 of which you will know the exact location of). Then the killer has 1 perk left. So what exactly is the problem there?
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@FreddyVoorhees said:
Which do you think is better and how does it fare for different killers ? Sometimes I feel I lose too much time looping on a single pallet and wish I just made them drop it and broke it right away. Is it efficient to just break them at every opportunity and not bother with mind game at all ?
Depends on too many factors. If it is a god pallet like in garden of joy, or shack pallet, i'll just eat it. But it also depends on the player. If i notice the player doing "good" then i suspect they won't be mindgameable, or will expect me to mindgame, so i'll brute force it and often land a hit. Whereas the "bad" survivors will be easier to mindgame.
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@buckk0097 said:
it seems the majority in the discussion agrees that healing should be done by others rather than oneself.
3 problems i have with what mentioned above:
- being healed by a teammate against sloppy is not efficient as some people said here. it actually takes a long time that its better if we both just do gens with resilience and run mft hope. ( again being forced back into the meta).
- we are putting too much expectations on soloq teammates to run altruistic perks.
- the fact the syringe on medkit is acceptable now because of one perk. remember if sloppy is not in the mix healing is very fair and worth getting 2 people to do it and reset
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3557157#Comment_3557157
please dont forget that spirit mains exist who run this perk with 3 gen slow down ( pair res /pop /jolt ) and very good addons. quite common killer i run into in my games btw
We shouldn't be making balance decisions around a single killer, if that killer is too strong because basekit things change, that killer should be nerfed.
It is easier to buff ALL killers, then nerf the 3 problematic ones, than it is to buff 20+ killers.
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@Akumakaji said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3558951#Comment_3558951
I will only comment on the snails pace part, but yeah, that's a big problem. Survivors meta basically was unchanged for years and even now things only change one baby step at a time.
I don't know why BHVR is so afraid to step up the pace and do something like LOL. Just take the 5 most played perks on both sides and nerf them numerical, buff the 5 least played options in a similar way and exempt the buffed/debuffed perks from the next round. Do this every 2 weeks, rinse, repeat and have he meta moving!
This wouldn't be a perfect system, but at least peeps would try our he recently buffed perks, while putting others on the back-burner for a while, and things can always be tweaked.
Making balance decisions based solely on pick rate is bad, they should do it based on win rate, but first they need to not make the win condition stupid like it is now.
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@TheDavidKingMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3559191#Comment_3559191
Walking up to a gen is more skillful than downing and hooking people?
It encouraged you to pressure multiple survivors instead of hard tunneling people. Yeah.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3558724#Comment_3558724
I mean... some of those are problematic though... When a Wesker wants to tunnel you while you are infected you basically don't have time to use a spray so you are much more likely to go down soon again, it is not about the cleansing itself, but that the infectious starts to increase again maybe without time for you to get rid of it...
As for skull merchant, tru3ta1ent might not be the best example, I mean even Team Eternal took quite some time to break the 3 gen in the showmatch and it was almost a 1 hour long match, all while being a comp team with coms and arguably the best dbd players around. Therefore it obviously is not as easy as you apparently try to make it seem. Also in those cases it does not really matter if you only do gens or not because the skull merchant decides on which gens to protect from the start...
As for freddy, how did his teleport even get changed? All people complained about was that his addons dragged out the game for quite some time, at least as far as i know.
I agree that Pinhead and Sadako are not really problematic. All you have to do about Sadako is grab a tape and be fine, and for Pinhead I don't really think it is too hard to look at the interface if someone else is going for the box and if they are all on gens or in chase just go for it yourself, despite maybe being on a generator, sure it would be nice to have something like a chatline that says "going for box/killer specific objective" or whatever, but even without that it is fairly easy to deal with.
The problem with old ruin was not ruin itself, but the combination with old undying that made you cleanse up to 5 totems if you got unlucky... That thing was really annoying, apparently the most efficient thing in that meta was to just ignore totems alltogether or find both lit totems before cleansing anything. Which is somewhat hard to do without communication.
Boons were also something survivors could do besides gens, and happily did I would say ^^ But yeah first COH and stacking of healing was ridiculous. They should just find a way for side objectives that maybe give you small bonuses if you do them, or special items... I don't know like do this 30 second thing and gain something out of it...
So you are in the "we should balance the game around average players" camp?
When are we going to see nurse buffs then?
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@TheDavidKingMain said:
No thanks. Keep free, passive regression as far away from the meta as possible.
It wasn't free, you have to force survivors off gens to get use out of it. It is actually more skillful than pain res or pop ever was.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3558934#Comment_3558934
I said revert half the nerfs. Pop was nerfed on percentage 25->20 and category total->current. Then it was buffed on the percentage 20->30. So half the nerf was reverted, and buffed on top of the revert for that part. Maybe I was unclear.
Ruin was double nerfed: Death and Percent. (I'd delete Percent's nerf)
DS was double nerfed: Endgame and Stun Duration. (I'd delete Duration's nerf)
Iron Will was double nerfed: Exhaustion and Percent. (I'd delete Percent's nerf)
Self-Care was double nerfed: Efficiency and Percent. (I'd bump Percent back up to 45%, so altruism is still better)
Thana was hard deleted (in 6.1.2/6.1.3): Percent tanked unless all 4 are injured. The old 1 was essentially now the current 3.
Each of these should have half of the nerfs reverted, or in Thana's case hard reverted to the pre-6.1.0 version, maybe even 4.5% per Surv instead of 5%, so that the 80s 5% would be roughly equal slowdown to 90s 4.5%.
30% of current is never going to be better than 25% of total unless the gen is at like 90% complete.
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@rvzrvzrvz said:
Do we really want a ruin-pentimento meta that's the question ? Even at 200% i'm not a fan it's still countered by holding m1 on gen or breaking totem, I can run reliable perks like corrupt-deadlock-pain res
Ruin + pentimento is no that good, as soon as ruin goes down, pentimento goes up and the survivors KNOW where that totem is because they cleansed it and all get the notification for it. Penti is really only good with plaything because you can use it to stall so much.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3558760#Comment_3558760
Yeah it made Legion a really strong killer for example xD I think Otzdarva once participated in such a tournament with that rule.
Yeah, like, i think it would be interesting to see what would happen if, for example, they made healing take 16 seconds, but self-care was basekit (and allowed 100% healing speed, so it only took 16 seconds) but then you couldn't do gens while injured, or something. Again i'm sure numbers and such would have to be tweaked, but i think these are the kinds of crazy ideas i think we should be testing on PTB. Sure 90% of them won't work, but you might come across something pretty interesting and actually meta changing.
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@Maelstrom808 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3558776#Comment_3558776
The problem is you cannot have real world balance with a 60% kill rate. It sounds like it makes sense on the surface, but it doesn't work, at least not in any manner I've been able to figure out. 60% kill rate, means a 40% individual survivor escape or win rate. If this is balanced, then you need a 40% killer win rate (3k or better and the kill rate is not the same thing as win rate). To achieve those numbers, as far as I have been able to work out, you end up with an outcome distribution curve that looks nothing like reality, and an abysmal 20% survivor team win rate (3E or better).
Don't complain to me, that is what the devs shoot for, complain to them. I was simply stating a theory based on this info.
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@Brimp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3558668#Comment_3558668
I mean when I see people give up on hook somewhat commonly. That causes the rest of the people to give up to a game that could have been escapes or not. It DOES effect global statistics and is unrealistic to think it doesn't.
I would guess they remove those outliers along with DCs, at least, i would hope they would. If they don't, then it at least explains why they desire a 60% kill rate to consider something "balanced" instead of 50%.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3557736#Comment_3557736
They probably stopped doing kill rate stats because it's a lose-lose stat. Let's take the current meta:
If the kill rates are 'within BHVR's acceptable tolerance' right now, people who scream for MFT nerfs will just ignore it because *x reason*. Likely because they want the kill rate to be higher.
If the kill rates are 'low', BHVR will just get completely ######### on my those same people because 'OMG how had this not been fixed immediately?!?!?'
The community almost never uses kill rate data responsibily. Remember the 'nurse has a very low kill rate and shouldn't be nerfed' arguments? Pepperidge farm remembers.
Personally, I've always wanted to see how high kill rates got during the gen kick meta. I suspect 65-70% or even higher, but I have no actual data to back that up except the sudden 'break glass' nerf to eruption they accelerated into a mid chapter patch, which is pretty rare for them.
I'm one of those "nurse shouldn't be nerfed because she has a low kill rate"
But not in the way you think.
The problem is, you either believe
- They should balance the game around top tier high mmr players
- They should balance the game around average players.
If you believe the latter, then by DEFINITION you MUST also think nurse is fine because her kill rate is "low" in the hands of average players, and if anything that she needs buffs. Problem is, most people on these forums believe in the latter, but still cry for nerfs for blight and nurse because of the crazy 1k+ win streaks they go on.
Personally, i believe the game should be balanced around the high level players. Which means, nerf nurse, nerf blight, nerf spirit. But then you have to face the reality of, literally every single other killer (outside of like 3 or so which are fine) pretty much needs buffs.
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@Ariel_Starshine said:
Well, the generators wouldn't be rushed if they didn't change healing. Now that survivors are no longer afraid to do a generator while injured, they will be done faster. Survivors used to either run to where CoH was to spend time healing, or use a med kit to go somewhere safe and heal. Now, there is none of that, so they simply hop on a generator and do it while injured.
If a killer cannot apply pressure on generators, know when to drop chase, etc, then of course generators are going to be going off faster.
Main point is, survivors are no longer afraid to touch a gen while injured, they used to refuse to do them unless healed.
This is why what i'd like to see them do is rework healing (again) and give some disincentive other than (you go down quicker) to survivors who are injured. For example (not saying they SHOULD do this, but just for example) i know a while back before all the healing nerfs and before the CoB/Eruption/OC meta, someone ran a few scrim matches against a survivor team where the rule was "you can't work on gens while injured" and it created some interesting matches.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3558747#Comment_3558747
There are constant threads about basically everything thats new if it even has a hint of being strong. Reworked Lucky Break, Resurgence, Fogwise, Blood Rush, and many more.
A single thread complaining about something every week is not enough to be "complained about". If thats the case I could make a post claiming Trapper is OP and itd have the same weight.
Alien was complained about because of a bug that made him even more unfun to go against, Wesker was the opposite where he was basically seen every game which can make things feel stale. Just like how people complain about perks that are seen way too much
Prove Thyself had multiple threads every week complaining about it before the nerf, it wasnt just "it gets used alot"
You are still missing the point.
The point i am making is, take a poll of killer survivors LIKE going against. And you'll find that the list of them, are basically the ones that can't force survivors off gens in one way or another outside of natural "m1" hits. How many "trapper OP threads" do you see vs say "wraith OP" threads neither of which really deserves one. But you get my point.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3558724#Comment_3558724
Im ngl chief the amount of posts of everything you listed here is close to none, except for 3 gen Merchant which is justified.
Also saying that Survivor crying only gets things nerfed is straight up ignorant as there are plenty of examples of Survivor things nerfed because of killers complaining. Prove Thyself probably being the best example
When sadako was reworked there were constant threads about it. But her play rate has gone down so you don't see it much.
There was literally a thread yesterday complaining about plaything.
Before alien there were multiple threads about wesker.
Prove thyself was a victim of "it gets used a lot so we nerfed it"
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@Venusa said:
Doing gens is survivors' only objective except for altruistic interactions when needed. I can't really shame people for doing what the game is telling them to do and their only objective. This behavior only creates a toxic environment because it's essentially not the survivor's fault. They should be doing gens, if they're not doing gens they're inefficient. I wouldn't want a survivor whose priority isn't gens on my team. Do you ever stop chasing survivors? Why should they ever stop doing gens. What else are they going to do? There are so many questions LOL. Survivors had other stuff to do a while ago like boons but most of them are trash now so back to gens. Medkits were nerfed so people rather stay injured now back to gens. They don't have anything else to do that progresses the game.
The problem with that though?
Every single time something comes out, that forces survivors to NOT do gens, they whine and complain until that thing gets nerfed (usually takes like a year, but they still complain about it constantly):
I.E.
- Old ruin actually being usable
- The new "All hex build" with plaything/pentimento/devour/haunted ground (not yet nerfed but look around you'll see threads complaining about plaything)
- Sadako (not yet nerfed, but everyone still complains constantly about her)
- Skull merchant, forcing survivors to not gen rush for fear of that 3gen (watch some tru3ta1ent videos of him destroying 3-gen SM as a survivor)
- Pinhead box, constant complaining that the box is "too hard to deal with"
- Wesker, constant complaining about having to cleanse his power after being unhooked.
- Pre-nerf freddy, constant complaining about his teleport.
Basically anything that forces a survivor to not just tunnel a gen until they hear a heartbeat is complained about until it is eventually nerfed.
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@Shaped said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3557812#Comment_3557812
So much mental gymnastics to cover up the hipocrisy. Unreal.
No insidious is not an issue because by your logic it is not used much so it must be fine.
Let us focus on the meta here and stay on topic.
You shrugged all the killer meta like it is nothing. When in fact, slapping anti gen is still strong af and affects the game more than some joke insidious ever will.
Inb4 context matters. You cant just say that whenever I point the double standards, it doesnt work like that chief.
And your excuse for double standards is "it was in duh shrine". Mft was also in shrine. So what now?
About the killer usage, that is not even a topic but I will bite. Are you forgetting people playing on console when you look at most played killers?
You people will say anything to push the killer narrative to the point you are straight up dismissing any surv issue on this forum. And blow up anything survs have to fight into oblivion.
Surv meta is a joke compared to before and nowhere near the strength and value of the killer meta. Also take your mft you can have it. It is nowhere near some perks we had before so it won't affect me in the slightest.
Might as well just run woo since that is the best surv perk. Yeah you read it right, in 2023 dbd a perk that shows you where pallets are is the best perk. That is how far we got. While killers can slap pain res, deadlock and dms and get a huge value almost every match unless they can't chase.
I'm not saying MFT is a problem because it is used a lot. I was merely responding to the people from LAST time they released data who claimed "look MFT isn't a problem, it isn't even in the top 10 used perks"
Usage statistics are a terrible way to balance the game, i mean, we all agree, look at how self care is still there even though it is so god awful. Insidious is an issue because it encourages unfun play, not because it is used a lot or even any good as a perk.
As for your other comments around the killer meta. Watch a tournament game sometime. You ever wonder why they have to heavily restrict the survivors perk usage, and their item and addon usage so much? Or why they have to come up with point systems that determine who won that isn't just about kills or escapes? Yeah, that is because the game heavily favors survivor at the highest level.
My general interest is in closing the gap between solo queue and SWF, hence why i think things like, kindred should be basekit, and blindness needs to be reworked. I also think that tunneling needs to be addressed, and my proposal for doing that is that they scrap the basekit BT, and basically give a survivor spirit's power after being unhooked (I.E., faster movement speed, no collision with killer, no sound, killer can't see them) so that tunneling is effectively IMPOSSIBLE.
However, reality still stands that this game, at the highest level with well coordinated teams, heavily favors survivor. And that too is a problem that needs to be dealt with as well.
And this is all coming from someone that mostly plays both sides (although i do end up playing killer a tad bit more as the gameplay there has a bit more variety with different killers), but outside of tome challenges i tend to swap, 1 game killer, 1 game survivor, etc. And when i do play survivor, i EXCLUSIVELY play solo queue. I'm at almost 3k hours in the game, and the last time i queued up with even a single other person was about 2980 hours ago.
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@supersonic853 said:
I guess the face of the perk is to make struggling more effective against the killer. But with a handful of maps what would be "difficult" becomes impossible. Especially with combined builds, forcing a death on the only hook in one corner of a map, or just bad map design in general inflated by map offerings being played(midwich and badham). So what would be the best approach. Going through every map to make a better spread so this never happens in the first place and future proofs any future perks that have to deal with struggle mechanic?(Also have of these maps would need such a change anyway. Midwich can have 90% of the hooks on the same floor. Making a unhookable area easily.) Reworking the perk? Or leaving it how it is?
(Its very unhealthy to just be left as is. But i don't face it to much. Although going to Ormond or Badham and having no option but play slug simulator for minutes at a time makes the game very boring)
Edit:(Forgot to mention. Boil over is known to target console players out over PC because of the way killer movement works on console. Making the perk inflated based on your platform. So do with that what you will)
Its one of those perks that is completely useless in a lot of cases, but in certain RNG situations it creates a part of the map where you as a survivor are literally invincible, i'd say it needs a rework personally.
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@MikeStev said:
I play at SEA region, if you play as solo survivor you will meet with a lot of player still using self care.
Usually they pair with BotanyKnowledge because they realised SelfCare is too slow.
Running to corner map, start the self heal ritual.....
Survivor who still using SelfCare similiar to them who use WindowsOfOpportunity, take off their perk then they don't know how to play.
(SelfCare user not always newbie player, just like WindowsOfOpportunity user)
The problem is relying too much on those perks.
when you play solo survivor, you protest that random survivors have no cooperation, but the perks you use are all for yourself, does that make sense?
I'm a survivor main, stop calling for solo queue buff, especially those who ask for voice chat feature, my goodness, the real problem is survivors themselves. (HUD really is more than enough)
That's just the meta in SEA. They tend to favor hiding and stealth rather than looping, and they generally play in a very selfish way, hence the self-care/botany.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3557467#Comment_3557467
I've always been so curious how those players use SC in a way that makes it so valuable. I'll have to look into any recordings I can find online or something, it's fascinating.
IIRC, the meta in the Asian region tends to be less around looping and more around stealth and hiding. So survivors tend to run perks that let them hide and killers tend to run perks that help them find survivors. Stealth killers are much more popular in those regions, and people tend to run self care because they can escape the killer, hide, and then immediately start healing when they go to chase someone else.
For example, i remember there being some drama in Japan because the survivor mains, yes the survivor mains, thought that basekit BT and the UI that shows what your team is doing is "boring" and "takes all the challenge away" and they actually look down on SWF because it is "too easy"
Try watching a japanese or korean stream on twitch sometime. You'll see the run self-care + botany a lot, and tend to bring medkits, yes medkits (with botany), not to heal themselves, but to heal teammates faster.
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@Shaped said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3557666#Comment_3557666
How do you rationalise killer perks then when you look at that list? Are they all fine because they are killer perks?
Did i say that self-care was a problem?
The only survivor one on that list that i think is a problem is MFT, it is by far the best perk in the game. But to answer your question around killer perks, lets look at them and do some critical thinking
What are the perks that are most used on killer?
- Jolt
- Pop goes the Weasel
- Scourge Hook: Pain Resonance
- Sloppy Butcher
- Barbeque and Chili
- Lethal Pursuer
- Save the best for Last
- Nowhere to Hide
- Corrupt Intervention
- Hex: NOED
- Jolt is a perk accessible to every killer basekit
- Pop goes the Weasel was in the shrine a few weeks ago. evidenced by it going up.
- Pain res is probably the biggest outlier here, i'd guess because it is simply a strong meta perk
- Sloppy butcher is a perk accessible to every killer basekit
- BBQ is another "outlier" but i suspect it is just because so many people already have it, due to it being "mandatory" back in the day for the 100% bloodpoint gain, additionally many outdated guides show it being a perk that is a "must have" for newer players for the same reason and leatherface is seen as a good killer for newer players and its one of the cheaper ones as well due to him only being a killer and no survivor.
- Lethal Pursuer is a pretty staple perk and also tied to resident evil, both chapters of which are extremely extremely popular and both brought in a ton of newer players.
- Save the best for last was in the shrine like 2 weeks ago, evidence by its usage going up.
- Nowhere to hide is a solid outlier i don't have much of an explanation for, it is a pretty solid perk though.
- Corrupt intervention is just a well rounded decent perk that pretty much any killer can make use of.
- NOED is available to all killers.
Again, context is important as well. You have to think about this as the realization that for each match there is 1 killer and 4 survivors. So lets say that tomorrow the game gained 10k new players. Many more of those new players are going to be playing survivor simply due to the natural fact that there are 4 survivors, so there are going to be more of them going to there.
So it is interesting to see that for survivors, the main perks that tend to get the most usage, are free perks available to all survivors, and a handful of noob friendly perks, with only 1 super powerful meta perk. Whereas with killer, you still see a few free perks, and a few perks from popular chapters, but that killers tend to gravitate toward perks that are seen as "better".
If i had to guess, from my own experience as a newer player, i felt a lot less confident playing killer and so i stuck with survivor for most of my time as a new player until i eventually got comfortable with the game enough to play killer (which generally i now do so at around a 60-65/35-40% killer/survivor split). So my theory would be that newer players tend to gravitate toward survivor and learn the game. It is "safer" in the sense that, you have a team to cover you, so mistakes aren't as punishing to you and so on. Then as they get more comfortable with the game, they delve into killer. But by then, they are a bit more invested and more willing to buy DLC and so on.
An interesting statistic that BHVR could give us is the average hour count of survivor players vs killer players. I would be curious if killers on average have more total hours in the game than survivors do and i would suspect that is the case. Although again this is purely anecdotal and based on my own experience. I wasn't really comfortable playing much killer at all until i hit around the 50-100 hour mark or so.
In general though, i think both sides do have some problem perks, either being too OP or just badly designed that result in unfun gameplay for one or both sides. On the survivor side, i generally see this as being:
- MFT self explanatory
- Hyperfocus self explanatory
- Boil over (leads to situations where it is impossible to hook, making slugging the only option, boring for the survivor)
- Breakdown (leads to situations where it is impossible to hook, making slugging the only option, boring for the survivor)
- Buckle up + FTP on their own they are both are fine
- Dramaturgy (mostly for the RNG aspect, i think RNG that is (you can get 1 hit downed or you can get a commodius toolbo, the best item in the game is badly designed)
- Kindred not because it is a problem, but that it should honestly just be basekit at this point
- No mither because its just trolling your temmates
There are others probably, and that isn't to say that there aren't any weak ones, these are the ones that i think are either OP, or just badly designed that lead to unfun gameplay
On the killer side, the perks that are a problem are:
- Coulrophobia, when you make a build around it, is unfun as hell to deal with
- Any perk that gives blindness. I think blindness as a mechanic is so OP against solo queue survivors and useless against SWF that the whole mechanic needs to be completely reworked
- Forced Hesitation can lead to huge snowball potential and slugging
- Devour hope being completely RNG based if you find it or not can be a problem
- NOED being RNG based, can hook a survivor right near totem and its just a guaranteed kill, also it working in the 1v1 is silly
- Knock out leading to a slugging build is just terrible
- No way out working in the 1v1 after hatch close
- Remember me working in the 1v1 after hatch close
- Insidious because camping
In general i think there are very few "OP" perks in the game really. The only perks i really think are completely overpowered are:
- MFT
- Hyperfocus
- Any perk with blindness against solo players (again it is a mechanic that i think should be reworked)
You can also see some obvious stuff around killer pick rate. Obviously the most recently released killer is played a ton. But look at nurse and blight and spirit. The 3 strongest killers in the game by far, and 1 of them isn't even in the top 10, and the other 2 are near the bottom of the 10. (which puts them in the top 1/3rd of usage). And look who is ahead of them? The newest one several free ones, and wesker (one of the most popular chapters, if not the most popular chapter, ever)
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Context is definitely important on these.
For example, on the survivor ones, 7 of them, are free perks that every survivor has access to with the base game. The fact that MFT is so high up is because it is so broken/meta. Windows is always seen as a "noob friendly" perk, so that is why its usage is high. The big outlier here is lithe which is interesting.
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This is funny to me, last time they posted stats it was: "SEE LOOK MFT IS FINE ITS NOT EVEN TOP 10"
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3554213#Comment_3554213
1 survivor death, Wraith chased Jake on last hook, I and Yunjin were doing the last gen, Gen at 95%, I leave for Gate. Its only a skill check spawn right at that moment that made Gen extended for another 9sec.
That 9sec was enough for Wraith to last hook Jake and ran to our place to chase me and killed me. YunJin escaped.
That 9sec gave Wraith another kill.
1 pop or 2 in late game where 1-2 survivors are death and pallets are gone, is more than enough to give killer one extra chase, where it could be the last chase for that survivor, which an extra kill.
Same to a success DH can extend that 9sec for the last survivor to complete the last Gen, giving 1 escape.
But thats just how perks work. They do give a kill or deny a kill. If Pop doesnt give killers extra kills, why do killers use slowdown?
Even if a gen is at 99%, a pop kick brings it down to 60 seconds of progress, which is at 66% max. So 29 seconds gained in the most perfectly optimally used time for that perk. (this includes the basekit kick)
Keeping in mind that the game is blanced around 45 second chases. And takes a killer 2.7 seconds of wipe animation, 3 seconds to pick up, ~8 seconds to walk to a hook (on average) and 1.5 seconds to hook the survivor. This means that downing a hooking a survivor cost the killer 60.2 seconds. And this perfect pop gives them back 29 seconds. And you want the killer to take 60.2 seconds of time 12 times in a game and the killer not camp and tunnel? So half a gen x3 of progress every hook?
In reality, most of the time. That pop is going to barely give you back the time it took to pick up the survivor, walk to a hook, hook them, then walk to the gen, then kick the gen. You probably just got all that time back.
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@acoldboy said:
In the past few months I've noticed a playstyle that is quite infuriating to go up against as survivor, whether it's intentional or not I don't know, but what I do know is killer travel time is a huge factor in this
Most of the games I've played have led to a scoreboard of hook states like this: 2 survivors, 2 hook states per, 2 survivors no hook states at all. With so many killers that can reposition so far around the map, it's easy to get a down, hook, teleport (Sadako, Dredge, Xenomorph, among others), to another gen, tile, down a survivor, hook, teleport right back to the original hook, rinse repeat. No time for healing, and God forbid chase the person who unhooked. This basically leaves one person always unhooking, and one other person doing gens, getting the other unhook etc. It becomes a 2 v 1 game once the game reaches this point. Skill issues aside, tunneling, and lack of incentive to not tunnel (COUGH COUGH) it just feels like too many of these high speed transporting killers can lock a game down too quickly, most of the time this has happened is when two, but more likely one generator has popped.
Again, the lack of an incentive to not tunnel is there, but with teleporting resource near, and for the most part right next to hooks it feels like a lot of killers have this ability to ping pong between two spots until 2 people are out of the game. Is this another fix tunneling post? Maybe. I feel as though this is somehow different, and like I said, quite annoying to go against. Thoughts?
So now NOT tunneling is tunneling. This community is amazing.
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@Tsulan said:
I mean... just look at Hex perks. They probably scrapped the whole concept for future chapters and just keep what we already have.
The problem with hexes is the vast majority of them aren't worth it because they are unreliable and aren't strong enough to justify the risk.
- Blood favor sucks because 32 meters is small given that the speed boost is going to get them out of range. So it only trips them up one time, and thats even if you get value out of it before it gets cleansed
- Crowd control is even worse because bamboozle is just better and you can control it and bamboozle can't be cleansed
- Devour is one of the rare ones that might work sometimes but requires undying.
- Face the darkness is really only good on pig/pinhead due to their kits
- Haunted ground is Okayish but 60 seconds is really really short and generally only gives you a single down and then its gone.
- Huntress lullaby is a joke
- NOED is a joke too as it basically gets you a single down in end-game, maybe a kill, again very RNG based.
- Pentimento is only good when paired with plaything
- Plaything is only good when paired with pentimento
- Retribution is useless, 15 seconds of aura reading 1 time, or oblivious, which is telegraphed to the survivor.
- Ruin was gutted, why did they nerf this one, just why why why why. It was so healthy!
- Third seal, blindness is in a weird state, OP against randos, and useless against SWF. Too niche
- Thrill is useless except in specific builds
- Undying exists to protect devour at this point.
Every hex perk sucks for being a hex perk, the only one that is actually worth it is devour really because it can be game ending. Hex perks were gutted to be so bad because survivors were bad at cleansing them, but now we have these perks that are in this bad state because if they buff them, bad survivors think they are OP, but they suck so bad nobody uses them.
I think the entire hex system should be reworked to be like thrill of the hunt. Basically:
- When a hex is in play, all totems become hex totems
- All hex totems now have their strength determined by how many totems are up still
- You'll have to rework a few of them like haunted ground and maybe devour a bit
- Rework undying to make the hex perk truly "undying" by making it always work as if there was 1 totem left even if there are none left.
- A small version of detective's hunch or small game might need to become basekit to make totems a
littleeasier to find. - Survivors get a totem counter in the UI.
- Maybe notify survivors at the start that there is a hex in play (but only tell them WHICH one when they are affected by it like now.)
This would make it so, if you find a hex totem and cleanse it, you weakend the hex perk, instead of completely removing it so spawning on a totem doesn't just eliminate 1/4 of a killer's build 20 seconds into a match.
On the flip side, now you as a survivor don't end up in RNG situations where the hex totem is just so well hidden you never find it and you lose to devour, at the very least finding other totems allows you to cleanse them and i'd imagine you would work in such that, once 2-3 totems have been cleansed, the effect of the hex is so weak that its fine if you don't end up finding the other 2 totems.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
Otz just made new video about problematic perks and there is list.
I am asking to community if you agree with him or not. There is perk list and video source:
Mostly no:
Basically the parts i agree with are:
- NWO shouldn't work on the 1v1, that seems fine
- Adrenaline working off hook is dumb
- BuckleUp +FTP is dumb
- Made for this is dumb
- Haste stacking for survivors is dumb
- Knockout being OP against solo queue is true, although in general i think blindness as a mechanic is far too powerful against randos and useless against SWF, whole mechanic needs to be reworked IMO.
Parts where i disagree:
- Pentimento is fine, because it is easy to counter by just paying attention to where totems have been cleansed. Survivors see the bubble when a Hex is cleansed so they know where they all are. And in general pentimento/plaything probably isn't slowing the game down more than pain res/pop. Its just a different way to defend gens that focuses on forcing secondary objectives instead of just instant regression.
- Most of his complaints and "changes" are "this should work better against tunneling" In general i think we should not be fixing tunneling by bandaid via perks. It should be fixed via a core mechanic in the game, not something that requires a perk slot.
- Pain res is hella healthy i have no idea what he is on about. Again that is more about tunneling/camping being strong, which should be addressed baseline, not via perk changes.
- His take on STBFL is wrong as well, generally he mentioned it about NOED where he said like, nurse isn't using it. And that is true for STBFL, the killers that use it, are the ones that need the most help, you won't see a nurse spirit or blight using STBFL. So its fine.
- His take on coup is just bizarre. Even scott jund, who i often disagree with got this right. Coup only gets you ONE time, the entire game. You get surprised ONE time out of 6 hits (minimum minus exposed). And from then on, you know it is in play and can play around it. Not every little thing has to constantly be told to survivors. Similar to STBFL, the best killers aren't using coup anyway.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3555162#Comment_3555162
What buff would you give?
It's not possible. It's core game mechanics that make weaker killers weak. Making Pig faster in crouch will not make her way better on huge maps with tons of strong structures and unfair tiles.
But changing core mechanics to fit more the average killer isn't possible whith killers like the 3 mentioned. They need to be toned down a bit for core changes to be possible.
Better to fix the core mechanics to bring up the 25+ killers that need it, then individually deal with the 2-3 killers that are too powerful rather than the reverse which takes far longer and requires tweaks to nearly every killer.
Also, there are plenty of things that can be done to fix the game at high levels of play without hurting low level play and BHVR has done it before.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
Now we know Blight changes are in work, so i wanna ask question about his Hug-Tech.
Do you think it should be removed or should be added to his base-kit?
Should curve billy be allowed? Certainly it wasn't intended that billy could do a 90+ degree curve around a corner.
This type of thing is actually good for the game because it adds depth to the game. In games, it often is the "unintended things" that actually make the game have more lasting power.
Look at games like Marvel vs Capcom, that game's scene exists because of all the crazy bugs and glitches they found.
Look at Smash Bros. An entire competitive scene was built around a game that was designed to be the next mario kart because of a few bugs and glitches.
Halo 1, the pistol was unintended to be as strong as it was, it was "just a side arm" after all, you started with the AR equiped, but because people got good with hitting headshots, it redefined the genre such that now you'd be hard pressed to find a game without a BR style rifle that is a staple of the game.
Bunny hopping in Half-life and CS was certainly a bug, and led to a whole mechanic of traversing the map that spawned new custom games bhop maps, and surf maps.
Air acceleration in quake was completely unintended, but redefined the shooter genre into the fast paced action that "boomer shooters" offer.
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@GensByDaylight said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3554029#Comment_3554029
It would realisticly be 20-30%
Losing 35% would be due to him kicking the gen, instantly losing 32.5, and then having to wait for him to move away.
This would only happen if the gen was 99.99%, so it is more hypothetical.
It is still possible to win if they go down in 20-30 seconds, but with Pop, its not really possible.
If survivors are going down in 20 seconds, i don't think they should win regardless of what perks the killer is using.
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@HerInfernalMajesty said:
When the Killer arrives at a generator with Survivors I have generally noted that the Killer will enter chase and down/hook a Survivor before coming back to hit the generator. It makes sense since the Killer doesn’t want the Survivor to escape.
However, are there times when hitting the generator first is better? Is it high risk high reward if you can hit it first, then find the chase and let the generator regress during the whole chase time (hoping another Survivor doesn’t tap it- high risk)?
What are your thoughts? What are the pros and cons of both?
Depends on perks. Without perks, you should only kick gens in the corner if you cornered the survivor. I.E. A gen in killer shack in the corner and you know the survivor is looping shack. So you kick the gen, so you can get some regression while looping. If they try to gen tap, it often slows them down enough to land a hit.
This is especially useful if you know no other survivor is in the area. This also works when you hook them for example and kick a nearby gen.
If you have perks like Nowhere to hide, then it becomes worth doing before. You immediately kick the gen, see if another survivor is close by, and you know if the survivor just held shift+w and where they ran, or if they are trying to loop some structure nearby. Allowing you to make a better decision to catch up to them, cut them off, or go somewhere else if they booked it across the map while you kicked the gen.
Perks like Pop make it better after, for obvious reasons.
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@NewPlayer100102 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3549853#Comment_3549853
I agree with most of your points.
But...
"Why is it this community for some reason thinks that this is the only multiplayer game in existence where you can't balance around the top level."
I really want to know why this is what it is...
It seems like such a cash losing tactic.
It is extremely perplexing to me.
My theory, although i have no proof of it, is:
- The reality is, this game is 80% survivors, and 20% killers.
- Even though there are people who "play both sides" equally, the vast majority of people have a preference, so they at least skew more often to one side.
- Because of this, in general, the majority of the player base "plays survivor"
- Because of that, now you need to think about the "average" survivor experience, which is dealing with solo queue.
- Because how miserable that can be, we see people wanting balance to made from that POV.
So quite simply, i think it is bias. When you look at a game like say, DotA 2, or LoL. Both sides are the same, so generally people look at balance decisions around top players in mind and say it makes sense.
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@CatnipLove said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3549853#Comment_3549853
I agree with you on almost all of this.
The two that I kind of disagree with is your SM take and why is the game still survivor sided at high level.
SM three gen is not beatable by most players. It was a boring, insurmountable wall for most teams, so it had to be changed.
The game will always be survivor sided at the highest level, as the difference between the highest level survivors and the average survivor is too vast. That's the fault of the game, requiring too much of a time investment to get past the skill floor. Nerfing survivor tools hits the average player too hard, and giving SWF players de-buffs doesn't account for skill level, as SWF is just friends playing together, with or without VC. Not to mention it is a bad look to punish players for playing with friends. I think if BHVR found some way to bridge the gap between the highest level and casual players, balance would be easier to achieve.
You can nerf things that nerf high level survivors without hurting low level players.
Trickle Down Balance.
This video explains it perfectly, i timestamped the part where he talks about the B.A.S.E. Jumper item in TF2. Granted the video is about TF2, but the concept remains the same. It is a great video though, so if you have 10 minutes, i'd suggest watching the whole thing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1p42KtZOCw&t=203sNot saying this is what should be done, but in DBD for example, look at killer shack. In the hands of a high level survivor player, they are able to waste so much of a killer's time at shack. But what about low level survivors? They are probably pre-dropping the pallet and still getting hit anyway. So what if you nerf shack? Well. Now it it won't be as powerful in the hands of those high skill survivors, but low skill/average survivors won't be effected, because they aren't using shack that way anyway, they are busy predropping it, going down 3 seconds later, and then DCing anyway.
BHVR actually did this at one point in the past, in the greatest balance decision they have ever made. And that was the change they made to Hex: Ruin. Old Ruin used to be this:
Then in patch 3.5.0 they changed it to this:
This was the single greatest balance decision that BHVR has ever made. The OLD Hex: Ruin was EXTREMELY punishing to "average" survivors. Because they can barely hit regular skill checks as it is (i remember, because at the time i was one of them). Forget about hitting great skill checks consistently. Then on top of that, they are forced to cleanse this totem, and "average" players are going to have a hard time doing that reliably. It led to a meta of "gen tapping" where people would spam m1, so they wouldn't get skill checks.
Basically, the old version was HORRIBLE for low skill and average players. But against high level survivors, they are able to hit great skill checks in their sleep, and on top of that, they know totem spawn locations very well, making it so, even if they did need to cleanse it, they would be able to within 45-60 seconds of the match starting.
The change they made, made it so that it was weaker in low level play, but more powerful in high level play where a killer would be able to pressure multiple survivors and use their knowledge and skills to do so.
They can do the same thing with survivors in many different places.
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@Grigerbest said:
Right from the bat --- Hex: Pentimento + Hex: Plaything.
This is probably one of the most broken hex combo that been existing for 2 years, and probably slept on.
(Educational purpose)
Hex: Pentimento:
You can perform a ritual on a cleansed Totem to resurrect it as a Rekindled Totem.
For each Rekindled Totem active at the same time, Hex: Pentimento gains an additional effect:
- 1 Totem: reduces all Survivors' Repair speed by 20/25/30 %.
- 2 Totems: reduces all Survivors' Healing speed by 20/25/30 %.
- 3 Totems: reduces all Survivors' Recovery speed from being downed by 20/25/30 %.
- 4 Totems: reduces all Survivors' Exit Gate Opening speed by 20/25/30 %.
- 5 Totems: all Totems are permanently blocked by The Entity.
Hex: Plaything:
If there is at least one Dull Totem remaining in the Trial Grounds, Hex: Plaything activates on a random Totem each time a Survivor is hooked for the first time:
- The hooked Survivor suffers from the Cursed and Oblivious Status Effects until Hex: Plaything is cleansed.
- For the first 90 seconds, only the Cursed Survivor is able to cleanse the Hex Totem.
- The Aura of Hex: Plaything's Hex Totem is revealed to the Cursed Survivor within 24/20/16 metres.
All effects of the Hex Perk persist until its Hex totem is cleansed or blessed.
How it works: You (killer) hook a survivor, 1 totem for that survivor becomes Hex that they need to cleanse (other survivors can't cleanse it), which means they need to spend time cleansing a totem right after getting unhooked instead of doing gens. You can hook 4 survivors - 4 plaything hexes.
When they cleansed it - you just need to rekindle it with pentimento, which means they need to cleanse 4 hexes again, which means overall they need to cleanse 8 hexes in 1 match, which is an insane ammount of time being wasted just on totems instead of gens.
Oh and btw - it's just 2 perk slots. So you can use your Pain rez and Pop, or other 2 perks with this.
"To counter that you just need to not cleanse plaything" - that is a pretty unreliable counter, since you're gonna be grabbed from a gen by some point since you don't hear killer's TR. But if they do cleanse at least 1 plaything - pentimento is gonna be in play.
I'm keep seeing people complaining about MFT or Ultimate Weapon, but how about this combo?
Ain't that kinda op?
If it was OP, why isn't every single killer running it like they were with Eruption, CoB, Overcharge?
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@Rudjohns said:
Should we start saying RPD and The Game are two of the most killer sided maps in the game?
Not really, that thing right there even tells you, it is looking at 19,127 games total and only looking at 530 games on RPD and 858 games on the game.
Assuming that these are from a perfectly random sample of games (hint: they are not). Then you would assume that RPD has a margin of error of around 5.49% (at 99% confidence level. and The game has a margin of error around 4.32%.
This means that, again, assuming a PERFECTLY RANDOM sample (again, hint, it is not) that that number is actually:
RPD: 58.82% +/- 5.49%
The Game: 57.87% +/- 4.32%
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3549433#Comment_3549433
If BHVR wants to cater to Survivors, why have Survivors received so many Nerfs since 2016?
Why did they not keep Infinites in the game? Or Perks in their base state? No Exhaustion, but Perks on 20 second Cooldown?
- Why does garden of joy window still exist?
- Why hasn't badham been nerfed?
- Why is MFT still not nerfed?
- Why is buckle up + FTP still a thing
- Why are they gutting skull merchant to be completely useless despite the fact that 3gen is beatable, and they could have simply fixed it by taking the "while working a gen drones don't affect you" part and just made that as part of the currently live kit?
- Why did they nerf alien tail attack even though alien is objectively weaker than blight and nurse and neither of them have been touched?
- Why do they STILL not have something in place to deal with the fact that SWF using discord get literally, and i mean literally i counted, 90+ perks for free, and many other things that aren't perks?
- Why are tournaments such a joke that only 2 killers are viable in them?
- Why are tournament such a joke that the only way they become playable is by:
- Creating some kind of "point system" that isn't about escapes vs kills so that killers stand a chance
- Hindering survivors in some way by preventing them from bringing duplicate perks or items, or locking down addons to a certain level?
- Why is it this community for some reason thinks that this is the only multiplayer game in existence where you can't balance around the top level
- Why is it that the game, despite being in its "most balanced state ever" is still extremely survivor sided at the top level
- Why is it that the devs continue to ignore killers like trapper because "won't someone think of the new players"