Reinami
Reinami
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- Reinami
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@Shaped said:
Any examples when latency works in surv favor? I don't want to start anything or deny what you people say but when hitboxes look stupid and you add latency on top of that you can't blame people for being annoyed with this.
Cutting corners and being hit is very annoying to experience. Only equivalent for me is when my camera moves on its own while I play killer on console because survivor is spining.
That's just the nature of the game. Latency typically gives advantage to the person doing the hitting.
For example, in games like CS:GO, usually it favors the person doing the shooting, not the other way around. Because you have to pick the lesser of 2 evils. Which feels worse:
- Getting hit and dying even though you "got around the corner"
- Shooting at someone with your crosshair directly on them and it not doing any damage to them.
2 feels far worse than 1, and in general that is what game designers go for. The "problem" is, that survivors aren't "shooting" at the killer, they are running from them, so that is why it always feels like it goes in the killers favor.
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
You will get tbagged at exit gates if you do that. You think Survivors care you played nice? Nope, eat that Mr Killer! Haha noob ezi match.
But then you don't play fair and you play Seriously and some Survivors just give up on hooks and cry in chat how cruel you are and how bad of a person you are.
Then what should you do then?
Change your win condition and you'll have a much better time with the game.
Here is what i do, and it works out great.
- If i'm doing tome, i focus on doing the challenge, getting the challenge done in a single game is a "win" to me
- At the start of the month on the 13th, i try hard to get to rank 1 as fast as possible (minus tome challenges as said above)
- After that, i do the following:
- Roleplay killer
- Use Rancor
- Attempt to hook every survivor 2 times without killing anyone. Sometimes you need to go out of your way to do this.
- After every survivor has been hooked, focus on maxing out your chase, brutality, and deviousness bloodpoints by hitting and downing survivors, but not hooking them.
- Once you max out your points, look for the obsession and "hang out" with them
- Once the gens are done, down the obsession with rancor, and kill them.
- Let the other 3 survivors escape.
This achieves a few things:
- You get your tome challenges done.
- You get around 36k bloodpoints
- The survivors generally get around 30k bloodpoints
- The survivors are usually happy that you let them go
- Your MMR goes down, making your following games more chill.
You keep doing this until your MMR gets low enough that you hit that sweet spot of "i can mess around and not immediately lose" and "the game is still interesting". Once the game gets boring, go tryhard a few games in a row, then switch back.
You'll have more fun. Trust me.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
I am just trying understand this logic.
I just played against Wesker, he found me early game with Lethal. I had to drop shack pallet for not take hit. And this ended with 3 gens chase.
But then my salty teammate (Yun Jin) and his duo (Haddie) throwed game because how i dare to dropped shack pallet that early? Boy, pallets are here to save you from hits? What's wrong with that?
We lost this game because they refused to unhook me. The only person (Ace) saved me was other solo and he had to hook trade. Even after that Wesker tunnelled me out. Other 2 just did gens but they died to NOED later (Karma i believe).
And i asked why they did not save me and the response: It was because i used shack pallet like baby noob survivor.
Can you please make me understand when is the time to use shack pallet? I am really curious
You need to look at your health states and hook states as a resource you can spend. It might have been better for example to take the hit, speed boost away, and take the loop somewhere else, or use the speed boost to get on the other side of shack, then loop it 3 times THEN drop the pallet, for example.
As for hook states, you look at them as resources you can spend. When nobody has been hooked or injured, the pallet is probably more valuable. Better to "spend" your health state or your hook state resource and save the more powerful one for later. Especially since a dropped shack pallet after gates are open can trap a killer inside of shack and basically give everyone a free escape at that point. Or doing the same to force the killer to break the pallet and break a 3 gen you are slamming nearby.
You'd do the same for example, if you haven't been hooked, and you see a teammate who is on death hook being chased, you should go tank a hit for them, and try to get the killer to chase you instead, by literally throwing yourself at them. Intentionally run to a deadzone, and run to a map corner. Yeah you get hooked, but better that you get hooked, then a teammate get killed.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3546358#Comment_3546358
I feel like many survivors would actually see this as a nerf. Not being able to do anything useful except healing for 20 seconds can be rough, especially against killers you wouldn't bother healing against anyways. Plague would be laughing.
That's kinda the point, because it makes tunneling impossible, which i'd argue killers who aren't the top 3 probably have to do on some level. So it is intentional to basically "put the survivor on timeout" for a bit.
20 seconds is also that sweet spot where you can have enough time to figure out the teammate you want to run to, run over to them, and get most of a heal off.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3546352#Comment_3546352
BHVR themselves admitted that David was one of their most popular survivors before his coming out. He was getting skin after skin and was considered one of the Great Cosmetic Hogs. Then, they revealed he was gay, and they just stopped.
Perhaps his play rate went down? There's a reason that Feng gets a cosmetic every 10 minutes, and Vittorio has almost as many Jeff, despite Vittorio having been out for less than a year, and jeff having been out for almost 5 years.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3546345#Comment_3546345
How many days has it been before this skin, quickly.
That's my point,
You complained that it has been a long time since they did a skin, so they do a skin, and you still complain, so what is it that you want?
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@Feneroe said:
There's no way you can make an anti-tunnel system that isn't a heavy nerf to killers chasing in general or abusable by survivors.
Not true, my proposed solution fixes the issue and is not exploitable by survivors:
- Remove the endurance and speed boost survivors get when unhooked.
- Create a new status effect that survivors get when unhooked called "Ethereal" for 20 seconds
- Ethereal: While Ethereal, the survivor gains the following:
- The survivor is completely invisible to the killer
- The survivor makes no sound to the killer
- The survivor makes no scratch marks
- The survivor does not have collision with the killer or other survivors
- The survivor moves at 200% movement speed
- The survivor is unable to perform any action
- The survivor is UNABLE to see totems, hooks, the killer, or any killer belongings (trapper traps, hag traps, etc.)
- The survivor can see the aura of all other survivors
- All perks are temporarily deactivated (except for new perks that might be made to work with this mechanic later)
- Deactivates in endgame
- Fix facecamping by making hooks work like PH cages, if you facecamp near them, they move to a different hook that is close to a teammate and far from the killer, giving that teammate enough time to save before the killer gets there, and the person unhooked gets "ethereal"
Basically, the status effect gives the survivor Spirit's power for 20 seconds, but lets them see the aura of the other survivors, so they can run to a teammate and get healed but they basically can't do anything else. After this, you would probably need to do some buffs to killers as a whole, as now hard tunneling is extremely difficult as is camping, and the lower tier ones will need some help.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
I genuinely don't know. BHVR revealed him to be gay and then threw him in the trash. The only reason he's getting skins now are because the Twitter Haddie Hive turned their attention to him as well lol
There is literally a new skin of him right now in the shop.
So when they don't release skins, its some agenda, and when they do, its also because of some agenda?
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3546197#Comment_3546197
Debending on killer the game is balanced around chases. Nurse, blight, spirit and wesker and good huntress can go for chases and still win comfortably. They might lose few games here and there but you are not supposed to win every game.
And that is the problem, blight nurse and spirit should not be part of this conversation. Why would you say: "we cant balance this because these 3 killers" when there are 30+ other killers that are in a horrible state. Would it not be easier to change the 3-4 killers that are a problem and then balance the core gameplay to be more fun for everyone? Rather than trying to balance the 30+ other killers? Especially when people already think that blight and nurse are a problem anyway?
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@Aven_Fallen said:
It is fine. The first Gen is usually the fastest (especially if it is that fast, this means all Survivors spawned together and it will take some time for the next Gen to pop). And the last Gen can take longer than the 4 previous Gens combined.
You can expect to lose at least one Gen pretty early and yet you can win with 4 Gens left. IMO the first 2-3 Gens are not that important as long as you have pressure afterwards. Because the goal is to kill all Survivors before they have 5 Gens completed, not to finish the game with 5 Gens left.
Its not fine when survivors don't try to mindgame and loop.
Mathematically speaking, a God pallet extends a chase by about 20 seconds. If you hold shift + w and just predrop a few god pallets, you will lose the game every time. Watch any competitive match and see how often they just predrop pallets.
And it leads to the problem we have now of killers being forced to camp, tunnel, slug, and play in unfun ways in order to win. Wouldn't it be better if none of those killer things were possible and the game were balanced around hooks and chases instead of proxy camping for kills?
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3545062#Comment_3545062
same drone can hit them 3 times. seems you can use them to force a survivor to either stay at a loop and get exposed, or leave a loop and get insta-downed
The exposed effect is gone.
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@Alice_pbg said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3545366#Comment_3545366
He can already do that.
Extra traps do not change this.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3545397#Comment_3545397
Having few traps encourages you to keep them closer and not spread them out too much. So basement trapper becomes more atractive.
Also having few traps, and having to go back and pick them up, means you can't really afford to actually use them in chase.
So... literally the reverse of what you said.
Amount of traps is not what will stop basement trapper. Set a max range between traps, or something else. This ain't it.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3545417#Comment_3545417
Gut reaction... why do I need to spend 4.5 seconds setting a trap on 90% of the maps?
But I'm in a hurry... let me come back to it later
Numbers could be tweaked, but this would basically make the trap invisible, so you can put it out in the open and it will not be seen.
I'm basically saying, slap these changes on the PTB and make tweaks from there.
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@DrDucky said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3545337#Comment_3545337
The issue is with giving him basement bag every match is in higher levels he can very easily lockdown the basement or certain hooks. Even with this new unhook camp thing he could do this.
This.
The proper solution to trapper is to identify the biggest problems he has, and they aren't around "collecting his power". But the fact that he requires so much setup time, his traps are often in bad places (RNG) and the fact that his power is useless during a chase and that RNG can dictate survivors getting out of traps super quick. On the flip side, he is miserable to go against because he can lock down areas so that he can 3 gen like crazy or make basement impossible to escape. So to fix trapper, i would do at least some of the following:
- Trapper now always starts with 2 traps, and can hold 3, rework all bag addons (even purple) to use a new mechanic listed below
- Trap setting speed is increased to 1.5 seconds (from 2.5 seconds) to make it faster to set up in a chase.
- Disarming a trap now takes 8 seconds (from 3.5 seconds). (Rework coil addons, basically they become basekit)
- Remove the RNG escape time, right now its 1.8 seconds, with a 16.67% chance but guaranteed at 6 attempts. So that means that on average, it'll take 3-4 attempts to free yourself. Just normalize it, so its a single 8 second bar to make yourself escape
- Keep the bonus for rescuing another survivor so it takes 1.5 seconds still (encourages survivors to stick together)
- Trapper gets a secondary ability that allows him to spend 3 seconds on a trap he has placed to "bury it/disguise it" effectively making it, nearly invisible to the survivor. However, once buried, the trap is no longer able to be picked up, survivors can still disarm it if they see it, and once it has been disarmed or activated, it is no longer buried, but can be picked up again. This deals with some maps just not having grass, or indoor maps like the game.
- Rework the iri addons so that one of them ties into this "bury/setup" playstyle.
- If a trap is placed within 16 meters of another trap, the previous trap is disarmed (to fix basement camping and 3-gens), might need to lower to like 12 meters
- Can't place traps within 16 meters of a hook, and any traps around a hooked survivor are automatically disarmed to prevent hook camping.
- Normalize trap RNG placement such that a single trap spawns next to every single generator, so that the trapper no longer has to go out of his way to collect traps.
- Unset/disarmed traps can now be picked up while moving, but set ones must still go through the animation.
- Fix the hitbox of traps so that survivors can't vault over them, or any weird shenanigans like that. Either the hitbox, or make it so if you place it RIGHT next to a window survivors will get trapped by it when they vault to make placement a bit easier.
So, in summary. Traps become stronger in a chase, traps are nerfed for basement/3-genning/area denial RNG is normalized so trapper can reliably grab traps around the map, and survivors can know exactly how long it takes to escape a trap. To fix maps that just have no good trap spots, trapper can "hide" a trap by basically making it invisible, at the cost of not being able to move it (so if survivors see you do it for example, the trap becomes useless/weak). Make it faster for the trapper to pickup traps that are at those gens by allowing him to pick up disarmed traps while moving. Traps have to be spaced out more, so no more 3-genning or basement camping with them. And you can't place them near hooked survivors to prevent camping.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3545170#Comment_3545170
I would like to hear how
For the, nerf survivors at high level but not low level, its simple. Trickle down balance. There's a great video that explains the concept that i'll link you. The video is about Team Fortress 2. But the concept applies. Specifically, the concept about the B.A.S.E. Jumper item, which i think is very relevant to the discussion around DBD. The timestamp i linked is the relevant timestamp.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1p42KtZOCw&t=203sNow, take a look at this clip from Ayrun, who is a comp survivor player:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvQXsdnVo9U&t=11m45sHe mentions in the video: "this is one of the worst pallets in the game" but look how he plays it. Look how he angles the camera, so he can see under the cars, making it impossible for the killer to do a mindgame. Look how he is able to abuse the new chemical trap perk, forcing the killer to not want to break the pallet, but also use the fact that you can cancel a drop by vaulting a pallet.
Or this one from hens:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rfKqY4bMmI&t=365sLook how long it takes for that legion dealing with shack. This is before the pallet is dropped, and i'd argue that the legion played it pretty well most of the time. Remember, legion is an m1 killer. But shack is just so powerful in the hands of a skilled survivor.
This doesn't even factor in situations where you can have shack window spawn into a jungle gym window which is just a pure infinite at that point.
Now, what about low skill survivors, what are they doing with shack? They are doing this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLkZnrQNu8MSo, for example. If you nerfed killer shack to not be as powerful, you won't be hurting those low skill survivors, because they are doing the above, not doing the kind of stuff that hens and ayrun can do. And in many other examples you have say, unmindgameable loops. Why do unmindgameable pallets even exist? If you took those away and made them all mindgameable 50/50s, it would be a massive buff to killers, while not hurting low level players. Because in low MMR, killers aren't doing mindgames anyway.
So, nerfing these structures like jungle gym, shack (i think dead dog for example would be a good way to deal with shack) and/or making it so you can't spawn these ridiculous structures into each other (no more jungle gym, into cow tree, into shack). You won't be hurting low skill survivors by doing this. Doing so might even allow them to LOWER the amount of time it takes to complete gens.
On the flip side, what are some things that you can do to buff survivors in low skill, or nerf killers in low skill games, without hurting high level games? Well, i bring forth, the greatest balance decision that DBD has ever made. The change to Hex: Ruin in patch 3.5.0. Old ruin was this:
Then they changed it, to this:
This change, was the single greatest balance decision that BHVR has ever made in this game. Because it was perfect. The old ruin, was TERRIBLE for low skill games. Low skill survivors can barely hit regular skill checks as it is, and suddenly, you are forcing them to hit GREAT skill checks, or LOSE gen progress? So much so that people would often resort to "gen tapping" in order to avoid getting skill checks. (i know, i was one of them).
But, on the other side, in high skill games, this perk basically did nothing, but nullify the bonus from great skill checks. Because high skill survivors, are hitting great skill checks in their sleep. On top of that, high skill survivors, generally know where totems spawn. So old ruin typically lasted maybe 45-60 seconds before it was cleansed in high skill games. Meanwhile in low-skill games, survivors barely know what a totem even is.
So, how did they fix it? By changing it to the above. And what did that do? This HEAVILY nerfed it in low skill games, by doing a few things. First of all, now it wasn't tied to skill checks anymore, but tied to "not working on the gen". It also changed it to something that no longer "just passively worked" but that the killer needed to pressure multiple survivors, and pressure them well, in order to deal with. Pressuring multiple survivors, isn't something that low skill killers are going to be able to do.
However, in high level games, this was a MASSIVE buff. Because now, it actually hurt high skill players. And high skill killers could capitalize on it, by pressuring multiple survivors.
And even better, just a few short months after that, we got hex: undying, which made it even stronger in high skill games by making it something that actually had to be dealt with early on.
So in summary. There are definitely things that can be done,
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3545113#Comment_3545113
If you wanna make game balanced on high level, then you can't have 2 different groups. Because anything will make solo-q even worse.
You need to buff solo-q to make them closer SWF teams.
And you need better matchmaking, the current version is so garbage.
If you are fine with these, sure. But it's not me or you are balancing game, it's BHVR.
Not true. And you are conflating solo queue with SWF. Solo queue can be "fixed" simply with voice chat, or more ways to communicate.
As for high level vs low level play, there are definitely decisions you can make to nerf survivors at high level, while not hurting them at low level, and vice versa for killers.
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@SleepyLunatic said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3544966#Comment_3544966
And we ignore the fact that such massive winstreaks also exists for survivors and other killers?
And that they are done by the best players of the world, not just the casual dbd players?
Almost like multiplayer games should be balanced around high level players not people with 10 hours.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3545077#Comment_3545077
Ok, let's nerf Pig, Wesker and other folks who has high kill rates by your logic.
I mean, by that logic they should.
I'm not saying it is "MY" logic, i'm saying it is YOU ALL'S logic. I think they should balance this game around the highest level players like literally every other multiplayer game ever made. But you all keep telling me i'm wrong.
So all i'm doing is, pointing out that the devs are giving you exactly what you asked for.
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@I_CAME said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3544909#Comment_3544909
Being able to win 1500 games in a row once you reach a certain skill level is not fine. There is no other game on the planet where the community would attempt to defend this. He absolutely needs and should get basekit changes.
Great! We agree that the game should be balanced around top level players! When can we nerf survivors as whole, while also nerfing nurse and blight? Because survivors like Ayrun and Hens exist and exploit the hell out of how OP survivors are.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
Mid-chapter is good, i won't complain but it's just funny how lucky Blight is.
If SM was not problematic like that, maybe this mid-chapter would be about Blight. But at least SM 3-gen is gone. She sounds more interesting to play as and against.
Anyway good job Blight, you dodged another hit. But how many vests do you have Mr Blight? When hammer of justice will visit you 🤔
I keep telling you people. They are listening to you, they are doing exactly what it is you all keep asking for. Balancing the game around average players. Now look at blight's statistics with "AVERAGE" players. He is below the bottom half. So he is fine.
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
I am not sure about that SM rework, have to wait and see before saying "wow so nice".
Basically they removed the only good thing about her (regardless of whether or not it was fun for anyone) and the "chase buff" they gave her isn't good, because you have to hit them with 3 drones before you get the benefit. So have fun not doing anything to survivors for 30 seconds in a chase.
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Same, its definitely not hitting right.
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@ASurvkillivorer said:
Is just another one of those things that doesn't get removed because it helps survivors overall.
Gee, its already physically impossible to defend a hook when all the gens are done now and theres no reason to leave. Base BT after gens are done is just LOL. It sure helped me out just now when the game thinks I want to SWING at the person on the hook instead of the person actually going for the unhook. Poof its impossible to even have a chance now.
Remove it. You know fully well its there just to make killers miss. It makes absolutely no sense that the game would ever think you want to swing AT the hooked person.
I honestly think they should just get rid of basekitBT and give the survivor no collision or hitbox for those 10 seconds (deactivate in endgame) and then also make it so they have no hitbox on the hook either. That way you can actually hit the one you want.
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@Cypherius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3542197#Comment_3542197
Being able to fight back and actually get chased again is definitely better than just waiting on the hook with the killer. Not ideal but a big improvement.
Ok, so when this mechanic comes out, and i release a compilation video on youtube facecamping people, i better not see a single complaint.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3542233#Comment_3542233
I mean, you cannot really compare them, when you even write that one person is being chased. This is more input than standing in front of the Hook.
I think you are all misunderstanding me.
I do not disagree that camping should be fixed, but not through a mechanic like this that is abusable by SWF. It needs to be dealt with at a systemic level that the game is balanced around that SWF can't "abuse"
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@Alice_pbg said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3542220#Comment_3542220
I find it's kinda silly to be so certain of it until we know the actual rules by which it operates.
They already told us before and if you read the twitter thread they are already confirming details.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3542186#Comment_3542186
"Ironic thing to say given that good survivors can already counter camping just fine without this feature. This is meant to help or rather "hand hold" the more casual/average side of the survivor player base."
The thing is not that camping can be countered. It can be countered - somewhat - even tho it might not even be effective. But if the Killer is camping they will at least get a trade out of this, because even with Hook Grabs removed, a Killer will manage to down the Unhooker and will at least have a Trade.
To amke a safe Unhook which does not result in a trade, you will need two Survivors who go for the Unhook. And at this point you can ask, if standing in front of the Hook should be so powerful that you can occupy 50% of the team with Unhooks and keep 75% of the team off Gens by...Just standing there.
You already occupy 75% of the team by not camping too. 1 on the hook, 1 being chased, 1 going for the save, 1 on gens. So camping doesn't really change this idea at all which is why it is bad, because the team has 60 seconds to go for the save, meanwhile they can have 2 survivors working gens, 1 going for the save, and then realizing that they are camping, then they can wait it out a bit longer, and have a 3rd come, giving more total time on gens. This is why camping is actually an inefficient and bad strategy. The only reason it works is because survivors let it, by usually standing around pointing at the killer or in general doing nothing instead of countering the camping because it is "unfair" or "boring"
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@rvzrvzrvz said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/QKXBUI4YT6FS/dfdfsdfsdfs-png.png
all I care about is this and I hope they don't chicken out after PTB because of all the crying, camping basement has been overpowered for a long time, it ruins so many games just because someone was caught in the wrong spot
This post also confirms that they are making it work through multiple floors. So again ,this is gonna get hella abuse by SWF.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3542209#Comment_3542209
As always, every time this discussion occurs, depending on the variables used to fill the gauge, it may not fill at all, in time for the survivor to use it, if there's any survivors in the zone along with the killer being in it intermittently.
@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3542209#Comment_3542209
IIRC having a survivor in the radius negates the unhook timer, not 100% on that though. If so, it should account for those situations.
Every single radius in the game works this way, i doubt they will change it.
Secondly, you can say "another survivor in the radius blocks it" but it is not hard for the guy on hook to use coms to say "bar going up" or "bar going down get back a bit" to try and trick the killer into the radius. Again, it is a complex mechanic that SWF will abuse while not actually solving the problem of the person being hard camped and tunneled out of the game.
You still have yet to answer the question, will you have more fun getting facecamped with this mechanic? Will it actually solve your problem? Or will you still rage and DC anyway?
Lastly, there are so many better ways they can do this that are far simpler to implement, understand and actually address the problem.
Why not just make it work like PH cage? If killer is close to the hook, they teleport to a different one?
Or my always proposed favorite, tackle tunneling and camping in 1 go, make survivors share the 1st hook state. Now in order to tunnel or camp someone out, you need 6 hooks before you can kill someone.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3542200#Comment_3542200
This doesn't make any sense.
If the killer is chasing a survivor on a different floor, they're not camping... so you can go for the rescue...
That's the point, but the mechanic will deem the killer is camping, because everything that is radius based in this game is a big cylinder that goes through everything, not a sphere. So the mechanic will say "oh look, killer nearby, guess they are camping, let me fill the bar" meanwhile the survivor is actually being chased. So now you can have 2 survivors working on gens, while the one on hook just unhooks themselves thanks to the "camping" killer
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@Cypherius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3542107#Comment_3542107
Ironic thing to say given that good survivors can already counter camping just fine without this feature. This is meant to help or rather "hand hold" the more casual/average side of the survivor player base.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3542113#Comment_3542113
You are being very dismissive of this.
Even assuming its just 15 seconds as you say and the survivor can't reach a pallet or tile and has no perks to help them like SB, DS, DH or off the record ( forces them to hit you and grant you a speed boost instead of just waiting 10 seconds) that's still 15 seconds that each of your team mates can use to do generators or try to help.
As for the SWF abuse comment: survivors near the hooked person will slow or outright stop this feature.
Also i'll draw a diagram showing exactly how SWF will abuse this on several maps, and very easily too.
The blue is the big 16 meter "you are camping" cone.
The map is midwich. All a survivor has to do, is run the chase underneath the survivor on the hook and the killer will be deemed "camping" meaning that eventually the person can unhook themselves. You can slow it down, or do w/e you want, the point is, SWF will abuse this, they'll be able to pop back in and out of the radius to make the killer "camp" while communicating the current status of this mechanic.
Coms allow survivors to abuse the hell out of it.
Solo queue won't change, because the killer still facecamps, and leatherface still saws you twice in one sweep right after you unhook yourself, and right back to the hook you go.
Camping itself, is a BAD strategy, you will LOSE the game by just flat out camping. The problem is it is BORING, so the fix here, is to discourage the BORING gameplay. But will survivors have any more fun unhooking themselves, then getting hard tunneled right back onto the hook? I sincerely doubt it.
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@Cypherius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3542107#Comment_3542107
Ironic thing to say given that good survivors can already counter camping just fine without this feature. This is meant to help or rather "hand hold" the more casual/average side of the survivor player base.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3542113#Comment_3542113
You are being very dismissive of this.
Even assuming its just 15 seconds as you say and the survivor can't reach a pallet or tile and has no perks to help them like SB, DS, DH or off the record ( forces them to hit you and grant you a speed boost instead of just waiting 10 seconds) that's still 15 seconds that each of your team mates can use to do generators or try to help.
As for the SWF abuse comment: survivors near the hooked person will slow or outright stop this feature.
So survivors will be happy that is how camping is dealt with? That they get facee camped and then hard tunneled back onto the hook? That will make the game more fun for them?
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@Cypherius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3542107#Comment_3542107
Ironic thing to say given that good survivors can already counter camping just fine without this feature. This is meant to help or rather "hand hold" the more casual/average side of the survivor player base.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3542113#Comment_3542113
You are being very dismissive of this.
Even assuming its just 15 seconds as you say and the survivor can't reach a pallet or tile and has no perks to help them like SB, DS, DH or off the record ( forces them to hit you and grant you a speed boost instead of just waiting 10 seconds) that's still 15 seconds that each of your team mates can use to do generators or try to help.
As for the SWF abuse comment: survivors near the hooked person will slow or outright stop this feature.
They tried it before, and did the exact same thing, where survivors "near the hook" would deactivate it, yet it was never implemented because SWF abused it. Why would this be any different?
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
Upcoming mid-chapter looks good so far.
Also why Jane? :0 Are killah mains enjoying to camp her?
https://twitter.com/DeadbyDaylight/status/1702313786621788283
Ugh, i can't believe they are actually going through with this.
- Get hooked
- Get camped
- Unhook yourself
- Killer downs you 15 seconds later because they are camping you
- Get hooked
- Why am i on the hook still? This anti camping mechanic was supposed to fix it!?
Meanwhile, SWF abusing the hell out of the mechanic to allow people to unhook themselves.
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@Ch0mp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3538748#Comment_3538748
And in many of those sorts of games, people frequently prefer to ignore the objective and just deathmatch. Now, you're trying to convince people who've won by killing for years that actually killing doesn't matter and it's just the hooks? To me, this feels like making hockey games won by shots on the goal, not actual goals, and hoping people just play along.
Its not just a mindset change, you actually reward it more and make the gameplay around that. It even fits with the lore better than killing does. The whole point of the entity is to feed on hope, not outright killing everyone.
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@antag0nisticw0mble said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3537462#Comment_3537462
Yet killers forget you get bloodlust literally for free. Doesn't even require a perk slot. 30s in chase without a hit have another 5%. and then 15s later here's another 5%. all the way up to the point you're 130% but survivors nope you can't have that 3% for that perk slot you've used.
If you are hitting bloodlust 3, you are losing the game. As you said, it takes 45 seconds to hit bloodlust 3, without getting pallet stunned, breaking a pallet, or hitting the survivor. If you do that twice in the first chase, that is 90 seconds. 3 gens gone. You could facecamp at that point and still probably have all 4 escape.
Bloodlust unfortunately needs to stay as long as there are busted maps like garden of joy window. Once the maps get fixed, sure, i'd be down with removing bloodlust.
Bloodlust is also a solid counter to "hold w" which is very important for certain killers, especially the slower ones. The movement absolute movement speeds aren't as important as the differences in movement speeds for a survivor. People see a "115% killer" and think (oh yeah, they move 15% faster than a survivor). While that is true, the reality is, they move 0.6 m/s faster than a survivor. This means if they are chasing a survivor at 32 meters (a terror radius away, maps are typically around 100ishx100ish meters squared) it'll take the killer a full 53.3 seconds to catch up to the survivor. Which is very very significant.
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@adam1233467 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3541335#Comment_3541335
At this point if she gets guted nobody will cares, this killer basically made the game suffering for such a long time
She deserved this
That's not how games should be balanced... You don't overnerf something just because it "had its time"
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@drsoontm said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3536497#Comment_3536497
But only a bad survivor would run in a straight line, and these aren't an issue at all.
When you take into account the size difference between killers and survivors on a loop, the chase time increases quite a lot.
You haven't watched a lot of competitive matches have you?
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3540838#Comment_3540838
You're using stats from all killers, and from an unreliable source. When STBFL literally does nothing for a good portion of the killer roster. Would love to see official perk stats on, say, Demo and Nemesis players at mid and higher mmr. I guarantee it's higher than 11% on them. And doesn't change the fact it was collaterally buffed by the basekit cooldown reductions and that should be fixed (you can even have your extra 0.04 seconds).
The most important point i made is, what killers is STBFL actually good on? The ones that need it. The ones that are already struggling. Why do you want to nerf a staple perk for killers who don't need to be nerfed?
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3540738#Comment_3540738
Sometimes yes, however that’s not always the case. It’s also too oppressive for camping and while I agree with the general consensus that it does help M1 killers quite a bit, it would be better if those killers got actual changes that weren’t perk-reliant and BHVR continues to address bad map design to help them. STBFL’s usage rate isn’t as high as some of the other meta perks because some killers don’t have much use for it. But many still do and that doesn’t make the perk any less overtuned.
We shouldn't be nerfing perks because of camping, which is a LOSING strategy for killers if the survivors play around it, albeit an unfun one. We should be fixing camping as a whole, not nerfing or buffing perks because of it.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3540741#Comment_3540741
If you're nitpick about 0.04sec nerf and dont want @Pulsar 's idea that bring it back to the maximum cool down of 1.84, which is 0.04sec less than the pre 6.1.0
Then why you're okay with extra 0.18sec of 6.1.0?
Plus, Pulsa's idea isnt a nerf to pre 6.1.0; where you have to earn 8 stacks to get 1.8 ; you only need 6 stacks to get to 1.84
A good change is to give player a few cookie from a jar, and if they want they can have the remaining in the jar. Not giving a few cookies for free on top of the whole jar.
Its like none of you actually read the rest of, and the main point of the post. If you want to know why, literally reread what i wrote, and scroll down a little bit beyond the first 2 sentences.
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@Xernoton said:
Oh no, why do I always face the same 2-3 killers? I know, let's nerf STBFL. That will definitely make more people play different killers.
Its almost like people WANT to play against nurse blight and spirit every game.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3540741#Comment_3540741
That's a .04 second nerf. Hardly something to be worked up over.
Still a nerf, also not the main point of my post which you didn't address.
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@Pulsar said:
I've always said I thought it should go back to how it was before 6.1.0.
Ie, make the maximum stacks be 6 instead of 8
This would just be a straight nerf from 6.1.0.
Old one was 3 second wipe animation at 8 stacks = 1.8 second animation
Your proposal is 2.7 wipe animation at 6 stacks = 1.84 second animation.
Small nerf, but definitely not putting it to "pre 6.1.0" changes.
Also, STBFL has a relatively low pick rate at around 11-12% per nightlight AND the official stats.
It's also one of the perks that makes m1 killers stronger and more viable whereas the problem killers like nurse blight and spirit get effectively 0 use out of it.
You'd basically be nerfing a core perk on killers who don't need a nerf, while not addressing the killers that continue to be a problem.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
Should be 4% per token and tokens should also be lost anytime the obsession loses a health state, not just on basic attack. The perk doesn't have enough counterplay against M2 killers.
The killers that you are defining as "M2" killers want to hit you with their power anyway not their basic attack, so its not actually used on them.
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@mizark3 said:
Pre-Mikaela Hatch was perfectly fine. It was a basekit mechanic to counter intentionally tunneling out early. Also you still needed to complete gens, as hatch would only spawn once the number of deaths was more or equal to gens remaining. Hatch also only counts as a tie, so a 3 hatch 1k counts as a Killer win. It also makes Keys not a useless item (without very specific add-ons currently).
I don't think that is how the idea of a win or draw is determined. It is based on "points" think like chess.
A win in chess is 1, and loss is 0 and a draw is 0.5.
In DBD, you aren't playing a 1v1, it is a 1v4. But for "winning and losing" purposes, it is a 1v1, 1v1, 1v1, 1v1 it is 4 separate 1v1s.
So if you had 3 people escape from hatch, and killed one, it would be:
0.5 + 0.5 + 0.5 + 1 = 2.5
A draw would probably be considered a 2, and a loss would be a 1 or 0, while a win would be a 3 or 4. So in this case, it would probably be considered a draw, MAYBE a win depending on how it is calculated.
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@GentlemanFridge said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3539760#Comment_3539760
you do realise a killswitch is only applicable for something selectable and/or determined before the game starts, right?
There's literally no way they can killswitch lockers.
And Xeno isn't gamebreaking broken. That should be obvious. And he's likely being worked on as we speak.
The problem is that this is a gamebreaking enough bug, that they need to fix it NOW, not wait a week. Or start issuing bans and HEAVILY monitoring the situation.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3539675#Comment_3539675
[EXTREMELY INCORRECT BUZZER SOUND]
There are people who play both sides, just because there is the requirements of 4 Survivors and 1 Killer to start a match does not mean the game's playerbase is that exact ratio... there is a reason why queue incentives exist to begin with... because the game does not have a proportional playerbase, and it never will have one (even with incentives).
By definition that is the ratio. Otherwise you wouldn't have enough people playing matches. Again, i just said, "some people play both sides" But what percentage of players play both sides? Even if 50% of players play both sides, by definition, there are more players playing survivor, period.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
I play both sides, and I see people justify the locker bug being in the game using the dumbest logic ever and it really does bring me pain.
Here are some common arguments Ive seen...
- "It is fine because Killer mains had the Merciless Storm exploit awhile back," even though not everyone used the exploit, and people play both sides so they were even affected by the exploit, can we stop acting like everyone plays exclusive a single side?
- "Things like this should exist when 3-gen Skull Merchant exists," multiple things can be an issue, can we stop pretending like we can talk about one thing at a time, this isnt a "pass the talking stick and let them speak" type of deal.
- "Yea but Blight and Wesker's Hug Tech is an exploit, I dont see why Survivors cant use it against them," then why was I getting Survivors doing it in my Hillbilly games? Also Blight and Wesker provide new ways of playing and counterplaying for both sides, and while I dont abuse those bugs like those, going into a locker and being invincible is no where near the same to begin with.
- "It was fun," it was in fact not fun. You basically removed the entire challenge from Survivor by making yourself immortal, there is no risk, there is no worry about dying or consequence. And this can also be extended to teammates since I have people use For The People and Buckle Up on teammate after hiding in a locker.
I dont think there is any reasonable way to defend the Locker Exploit, and a majority of excuses Ive seen for defending it are just "us VS them" stuff.
I really wish this community wasnt so divided, seeing stuff like this just really is tiring.
@Crowman said:
It's crazy to me that people are trying to justify exploiting the bug. I never seen people justify the infinite mending legion bug or the nurse speed bug which were awful to face.
You really can see the growing entitlement in the community.
Its simple statistics. 80% of the players in this game are by definition, survivors. Maybe not survivor mains, as some people play both sides, but as a whole the majority of the player base are "survivors" thus they will be louder in trying to defend stuff like this.
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@caipt said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3539571#Comment_3539571
he is one of the best designed killers in the game
I think that trophy goes to Wesker, but i do agree that blight is well designed.
I'm probably in a minority here as well and i think skull merchant is very well designed, and the problem with skull merchant is not the problem with skull merchant, but with 3-genning. The way her power and addons works is she is a "build your own killer" Her power is very simple and basic, and her addons are almost all pretty good, in that they modify her power in a way that changes how you play. She can be built in a variety of different ways based on playstyles, addon choices, and perks.
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@SunaIIanu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3539571#Comment_3539571
Where did I say that?
As I said it can be quite annoying when the Devs change their mind on things that they announced and I do think it is fair as player to complain about a broken promise and in this case I can't understand why they did not just communicate their reasons. But I also thing "the Devs said something years ago" is a weak argument, because after such a long time many things changed so it is not the same situation anymore.
Your claim
Yes, the Devs did say they would change it back, but they did not for years so there was probably a reason for it, maybe the, thought the other changes that came with the original nerf to 3 seconds were enough and/or they were happy with the ds's performance an 5s.
Implies that you think that the devs not changing something, mean that there are good reasons for it. Thus, by definition, you must also think that, because the devs haven't changed blight in a long time, then they are probably happy with the performance of blight, and he is fine.