Reinami
Reinami
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- Reinami
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3499677#Comment_3499677
If we're moving from criticising the archetype to criticising this one specific version of it, yes, I'd tentatively agree. I haven't tried it yet, but it does sound too high where the other version of this challenge aren't.
The general problem i have is. The challenge should be achievable by playing the game "normally" and working with teammates, healing teammates, and doing generators and generally trying to escape. Once the challenge gets away with that. Or that the "normally" aspect becomes so difficult that you can't play normally. An example is this one, or another one they had before was to like, use some perk and finish repairing 4 generators in a single game. So you had to actually be on 4 of the 5 generators as they finish. Yeah, doing gens is part of the game, but in order to make sure you are on 80% of the gens that get done means you can't play "normally" to get it.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3499521#Comment_3499521
It only encourages you to be useless if you assume that the only way to tick it up is to go actively hide and do nothing else.
But you don't need to do that. You can progress generators in the killer's TR and it isn't even always a risk, and that's just doing generators, not any other action.
You literally just need to be in the killer's terror radius. It can be a little inconsistent but it doesn't require you to be useless.
Though again, I'm talking about the challenge archetype here. I do think two minutes in one match is a little harder to do that way and might encourage players to go follow the killer around.
If the challenge was to do it in multiple games. Sure, but 2 minutes is a long long time for a single game. Typical game of DBD lasts like 8-10 minutes. So you have to be in the terror radius but not chased for potentially 20-25% of the match? There is no way you can do that legit in any consistent way.
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@SunaIIanu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3497964#Comment_3497964
When a survivor turnes the TV off, it's off for 70 seconds, so in a bad case scenario you might wait a minute in front of the tv.
That's a teamwork problem. Survivors are supposed to work as a team. And this is the part where you say "but solo queue". Yeah, we all know solo queue is bad, that is not a problem exclusive to a single killer and we shouldn't be making balance decisions around something where we already know the root cause of the problem has nothing to do with the thing we are discussing.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3499372#Comment_3499372
This challenge archetype does not encourage you to be useless, though.
yeah it does. Good challenges for survivors are things like:
- Stun the killer X times
- Blind the killer X times
- Use X perk and do whatever the perk is (but not in terrible ways like the teamwork ones)
- Escape as X Survivor
- Unhook X Survivors must be safe unhooks
- Pick up X survivors off the ground
- Do X generators
- Do X coop actions
Those types of things that are things that you actually would normally do in a normal game. Yeah some people might argue that blinding is less useful then gens, but flashlight saves are a thing and you can still be useful while doing the challenge. Bad challenges are:
- Hide within X meters of the killer while not in a chase for Y seconds
- Hide in killer's terror radius for X minutes while not in chase .
- Any of the glyph challenges that give you debuffs
- Escape while your teammates escape, you must remain in the trial while they escape (these are dumb because you have to wait for you teammates to leave first, you should be able to just leave and you get credit if any teammates escape)
- Loot X chests
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3497964#Comment_3497964
I had to do this to get rid of Condemned because it was almost full and i couldn't find an active TV. I think I ran around one TV for a good 30s waiting for it to switch back on. If everyone is doing this frequently then it adds up to one massive waste of time in a game where seconds count. You're literally playing to beat Sadako or your team mates to a TV. Maybe they could add some sort of recharge indicator after x amount of seconds. I don't know. But TVs should be the side objective, but at times they feel like the main objective.
That is the point, her power does nothing in a chase, the point is that she is a macro killer, she can't chase because she is literally just a t2 myers basically with 0 power, a little stealth (but you'll see the heartbeat when shes nearby anyway because she has a lullaby).
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3497966#Comment_3497966
you can tell which is turned off by when TV aura goes from highlighted to teleport to turned off. mother comb is training wheel add-on. it helps you learn a particular skill with Sadako.
It is really hard to tell on those though. That's like, pinhead knowing where the box is because he knows where everyone spawned level of skill.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3497964#Comment_3497964
How does a survivor know if Sadako recently teleported to a specific TV they see? Is there some sort of tell? I’m asking because you said it should pop on in 10-20 seconds but only if she hasn’t ‘just’ used it. I didn’t see anything in the patchnotes about signs that indicate to survivors how much longer a TV has on cooldown.
Well, if you heard here terror radius from that direction, and the TV is off, there is a good chance she is in the area and it was recently turned off. When she pops out of a TV she is automatically manifested and has a terror radius.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3497972#Comment_3497972
It’s in the game so that if a survivor goes down 20 seconds into a match they have some chance of resolving the issue because 1.) It shouldn’t be up to other players (killers or survivors) whether you get to play the game or not & 2.) If there is a small chance you can escape death you may play with less abandon.
Then you are playing the wrong game or at least the wrong side. That is entirely what the killer and survivor dynamic is designed to be. Survivor tries to do X and killer tries to stop them by taking away their ability to do anything. That's just how the game is.
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@Boons123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3497851#Comment_3497851
I don't want to lose Blood Point
Right, so you are actively circumventing a mechanic to discourage you from quitting the game. Especially in a world where they just added bots to deal with that. They should ban people for doing this because if you really want out, you take the penalty like you deserve, because you ruined the game for all 4 other players because of that.
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@Ryuhi said:
The devs refuse to put in any measures to tell hookicides apart from legit kobe attempts/missed skill checks. they are unable to tell them apart internally.
@Ayodam said:
How do you know people aren’t actually trying to 4%?
Because it happens 20 seconds into the match? Better question is, why is the stupid 4% mechanic even in the game to begin with? Its a dumb mechanic that makes it so a match can be entirely decided by RNG. Same with the struggle mechanic. Both should go IMO because they allow for this type of thing, and there isn't anything lost by having them removed.
Things like deliverance are fine because it isn't RNG based, but i think the entire luck mechanic should be reworked or removed, along with perks like slippery meat.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3497799#Comment_3497799
I never heard anyone can't look to clowns? People scared of Clowns but they are normal human. Not creature. All of killers you mentioned are human type killers. Not creature.
Spiders are on other hand, they are creature. Animal. Whatever you want to call them. And i think you still don't understand problem with spiders. It's not only "FEAR". Some people just can't look them. Me included. I just can't. Their movement just makes me go to and bathroom and puke. They look disgusting. If they add spider killer without mod, i will just dc every match against it. My health is more important than the game.
I don't know how to tell you more, arachnophobia is very popular. I am not
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3497823#Comment_3497823
I did not play Nioh 2 but the thing you mentioned sounds fun lol. My fav was Skyrim mod. I think it was turning spiders to walking flowers.
How does the spider being a creature make the fear any more than someone who has a similar fear of clowns? Or who literally can't stand the thought or sight of vomit because it makes them sick. It is the exact same thing.
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@BreadSilence said:
Her iri add-ons definitely need to be either removed or reworked entirely.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3497793#Comment_3497793
You literally can't if she's running double iri add-ons, like the game I had against her on Red Forest the other night. Pure cancer.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3497788#Comment_3497788
Slugging every survivor and refusing to hook anyone until all 4 players are down may not be inherently "toxic" but it is objectively and unnecessarily sweaty and boring. And you are ignoring/denying an entire aspect of the game by doing so and denying not only Altruism points for the survivors but also extra hook points for yourself. So while it's not against the rules or anything, you also have no right to get upset when other players give you the smoke for it afterwards.
The only addon that needs changing is the green one that tells you when someone grabbed a tape. If they reworked that one to do something else it would be much harder for her to do a pure condemn style build because she has to keep track of a TON of stuff.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3497793#Comment_3497793
If she spams teleport it’s tough to find a tape because you can only retrieve them from active TVs. Obviously when she hits you while holding a tape you receive condemn & the tape breaks. What I’ve observed is that they’ll go back to spamming her teleport which makes it difficult to find an active TV so you can retrieve a tape. And mind you three other people are looking as well.
Its actually not that tough, because the tv is only off for 45 seconds when she TPs to it, so as long as you stay in the general area of one, its a good shot that it'll pop back up in 10-20 seconds unless she JUST teleported. In which case, why are you trying to grab a tape while she is nearby?
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@ChuckingWong said:
I dont know if shes at the level of the 3 gen camping Skull Merchant.
But yes, currently she is busted.
Its funny right? The constant argument I see is contradictory
1: Just take a tape
2: Shes an M1 killer, with no chase, just loop and escape
I mean, yeah those are both valid complaints. Her power is pretty much useless in a chase, and if you just grab a tape early, she cant passively condemn you, so she HAS to chase you and hit you. Then you just treat her like an oni, you just drop the damn pallet while you teammates work on gens.
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Say that to the people who play Ada and ace and they are quieter.
It may be a dumb rule, but the rules are pretty plain. They broke the rule. Sure, change it, but you have to follow the rules that were set when the tournament was played.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3497576#Comment_3497576
Its not as much about beig scary as it is a very common phobia, one that can nope people out of games entirely. Its more than just discomfort for some people and the entity toes the line enough as it is.
@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3497576#Comment_3497576
I think you have no clue about arachnophobia. It's not just Spiders scares you. So it's not about horror part.
For example, i know Spiders can't hurt me. So they are not scaring me. But i can't look them directly. It affects me so badly. Makes me puke.
That's why games are usually using arachnophobia mode for people who is getting effect by them. Or someone is making mods, so people can play these games without issue.
Right, so lets look at the killers we have in the game. Some people are afraid of clowns, why don't we have a thing for that? Some people get sick at the sight of vomit, why is plague not a problem? Some people (someone i know actually) gets really creeped out by anything medical related, even the sight of a doctor (you know the killer?) can scare this person. Some people (someone else i know very well) are heavily afraid of zombies. Yet nemesis is fine.
So why aren't there modes to deal with those killers?
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3497385#Comment_3497385
I don't want Spider killer. Unless they add arachnophobia mode.
Yeah, how terrible it would be to have something in a horror game be scary....
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3496836#Comment_3496836
what about a killer that hard camp's slugs when a survivor has low bleed out timer? survivor's need to recover to 95% hp to pick them up. FTP allows you to heal them immediately but survivor do not want to go down for other teammates so buckle up solves that issue. it seems to be working as intended. Just another case of health-state body-blocking being too effective vs weaker killers.
Ah yes. a whataboutism.
What is this thread about again? Pretty sure it was about FTP + Buckleup. If you want to talk about other things, probably go to a different thread.
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@Dogma_loki said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3490977#Comment_3490977
So one idiotic Meg ruined DBD for you? Thats all it took?
I really dont get this killer mindset at all.
Yeah, it actually is. When killers go out of their way to play nice, and they run across those douchebag players that call them scrub and teabag at the exit gates, or play super scummy toward them when it is obvious you go out of your way to be nice? Yeah, if that happens to you enough times, you stop playing nice. The reality is, there are far more toxic survivor players, than there are killer players.
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@Sharby said:
This is a really dumb combo with literally 0 counters for the killer aside from hoping the survivor is console.
It definitely needs to be removed. Its basically useless to below average in usefullness in solo queue. But as always SWF can abuse this to make the match completely miserable for the killer. And yet again, its yet another combo that a nurse blight or spirit won't care about because they'll just down you 5 seconds later anyway, whereas a trapper is going to be extra sad when it happens.
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@JustAnotherNewbie said:
Would you say it's enough to counter MFT?
If you spend the stack, definitely, but if you are trying to save the stack, it makes it rough. IMO though, i wouldn't try to save the stack on someone who is injured.
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@coco_shotz said:
Mainly asking due to anger but I am still curious as to why the killer feels the need to facecamp at 3 gens when the game is still easily winnable in their favor. This killer was legion and wasn't even particularly bad at playing killer so idk why myself or one of my teammates needs to get camped off so early. Other people are trying to play the game you know and while alot of you will say something derogatory or non helpful such as "killers kill" I still don't see how playing the game that way is enjoyable for anyone
Doesn't matter how many gens are left. The point is, is camping at that point going to be the strategy that is most likely to secure the killer a win? The vast majority of the time, the reason that camping and tunneling works, is because the survivors let it work and they make those strategies very effective and optimal for the killer to do.
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@CakeDuty said:
Has anyone else noticed this or have I just been incredibly unlucky? Was playing on the updated Rancid and noticed there was a severe lack of pallets opposite of shack. It contained one unsafe pallet, one long wall jungle gym, the harvester and the rest was dead zone. The shack side had a decent amount of pallets, the middle was kind of eh with an L and T wall and another unsafe pallet.
I went into a custom game to see if it was consistent and the first test, there was the harvester, a L and T wall, and one safe pallet on that side. Plus the entrance had the new breakable wall, so you couldn't easily access the main building. The second game had two unsafe pallets, a harvester and a L and T wall. The third time I decided to record, just so I had some evidence for uploading at here, but you can see that all the map gave survivors was an unsafe loop, harvester and a long and short wall jungle gym.
Meanwhile, on all the test, the shack side had a decent amount of pallets. So is that one side a total deadzone now or is my luck (one actual game and 3 custom games) just really bad?
Its almost as if different maps have different ideas on what you should be doing. And on this map you are supposed to use the cover of the corn to hide.
In all seriousness though, the RNG on map gen can swing both ways and is probably the biggest problem in terms of balance. They really should just do away with the whole "RNG" aspect of map gen and just curate all the maps. It would solve a bunch of problems.
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@DavidHypnos said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3491853#Comment_3491853
I’m kind of sick of hearing the whole “its 16 vs 4 perks” bs. That’s already balanced by killers having their powers + add-ons to rely on, their faster movement speed, and having the general power role in-game. All survivors can do to protect themselves is hide, run, or manage a stun or blind. Killer perks should not be designed to be stronger than survivor perks because of the asymmetrical nature - and they’re not; for the most part they’re balanced.
Perks like deliverance are fine, as you said, because you can’t be guaranteed value out of every perk and this is true of the killer as well.
That's not BS, it is a fact of the game. The entire game is designed around the idea that is 1v4. If the game is setup such that a single survivor can be more powerful than the killer wholesale, it completely destroys the balance of the game, because now the 4 are stronger. The 4 should only be "Stronger" when they outplay and work well as a team vs the killer, not just by merely existing.
The problems with the game balance are survivors always talking about the game in a vacuum as a single player. But if survivors started acting like and playing and having these discussions with the idea that survivors as a team are a single unit, and that each individual survivor is a bigger part of the whole, these types of things would go much better.
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@Ayodam said:
Isn’t that an issue of latency/lag? If so it’s because it prioritizes the killer’s connection/perspective. So if on the killer’s screen it looks like you were hit, even if on yours it looks like you cleared the window & were outside of hit range, you will get hit. I heard that this works for survivors when it comes to like hook and Gen grabs but I don’t really think that’s true.
The game hasn't had hit priority on killers for years at this point. It uses server-side hit validation to determine hits. Basically, both you and the survivor are not seeing the actual state on the game, the server is. So for example:
X = killer
O = Survivor
<> = max killer attack range:
Killer PoV:
X -------- O<> ---------
Survivor PoV:
X ------- <>O ---------
Server PoV:
X ------- <O> ---------
The killer makes a "hit" on their side, this information is sent to the server, which then checks the survivors position on the server side and determines if the hit is close enough. If it isn't, the killer's hit will get "validated" and the hit will be rolled back.
The reality is, due to the internet, latency, ping and servers this will often appear to look wonky at times depending on the side. There are plenty of times as a killer where i feel like i should have landed a hit and i didn't, and even times where i feel like i should not have landed a hit and i did. Just as when i play survivor i feel both situations can occur as well.
The majority of the time though, look at it like this.
- The killer is often closer than they appear to a survivor
- The survivor is often further than they appear to a killer.
This is just due to the asymmetrical nature of how the game works. Think of it like mirrors on cars.
Lets say the killer and survivor are at a standstill 32 meters away staring at each other, and they both have 100 ping.
The killer starts walking toward the survivor, this takes 50 ms (ping is a round trip, so half your ping) for the killer's info to be sent to the server. The server than processes that information, and sends it to the survivor, which takes 50ms. This means that the survivor won't see the killer even starting to move for 100ms. Which means that the killer is actually 0.46 meters closer to them than it appears they are. So now the survivor starts running away, this takes 50ms to send to the server, and another 50 for the killer to see it. So now on the killer's screen, they moved for 0.92 meters (200ms) before they actually saw the survivor moving. So the survivor is actually further from them than they appear.
This is why the server is and should be the source of truth for these things and why hit validation exists.
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@Depressedlegion said:
It only activates if you aren't first hook, and you unhook someone first. Prove me wrong.
And here lies the problem with survivor players in general.
You need to stop thinking about this as a 1v1 game, it is a 1v4 game. Survivors have 16 perks to work with, by nature they should be weaker than killer perks in general. On top of that, survivor perks being more situational is also fine, you shouldn't get guaranteed value out of every perk every single game, because your side has 16 to work with. You can give deliverance tons of value by making a build around it, but again, you are so stuck up on the: "If i don't get 100% perk value every single game i am mad about that" instead of deciding what role you want to play on your team and making a build around that.
Want to be a healer? Great, run some perks for that. Oh, did the killer end up chasing you around so you didn't get to do much healing? That's fine, that's how the game works. Maybe your teammate that was running a chase build should have tried to body block for you and pull the killer's attention to them.
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@HastuneMiku said:
Devour needs a slight nerf tbh. It doesn't have to be big. Just notify survivors of a hex after the first token, like with Huntress Lullaby. Huntress Lullaby is a lot weaker and still notifies survivors as soon as they have one token. I see no reason for Devour to get the benefit of hiding until three (or more if nobody gets hit by exposed) tokens.
That is not a slight nerf, that makes devour useless. Devour does not need a nerf because you still need to get 3 hooks to trigger the exposed. And on top of that, it is 3 HEALTHY hooks, where you need to be AWAY from the hook and not camping in order to get the value of it. You want to nerf the last decent perk left that killers have the encourage them to NOT camp and tunnel?
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@LeFennecFox said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3488278#Comment_3488278
It's less of a problem with nurse losing m1 every other killer I don't really see an issue with it and since ruin is gone it's no longer haunted ruin devour undying where you HAVE to cleanse multiple strong hexes
That is literally the point of hexes. They are supposed to be powerful on account of the fact that survivors can completely remove them from the game making the killer have 1 less perk for the entirety of the game.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3489974#Comment_3489974
I don't think they play much pubs.
I mean, KnightLight does as Killer. Zaka I think also plays pub Killer.
I don't think they play as a team in pubs.
Riiiiight. So my point still stands. Show me a single game where a comp team as survivors loses against a killer who isn't playing nurse blight or spirit and the survivors are actually trying to win, not doing a stupid youtube challenge for clicks. Killer can be doing any other god awful thing you want. But it can't be some tournament or anything where they are heavily restricting what the survivors can bring.
I'll be surprised if you can actually find even 1 but even if you can, that team probably won 20+ other games before they lose that one.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3489967#Comment_3489967
Ah, is this one of those "games" where the survivors have a bunch of restrictions in place like what perks they can brin and addons and such?
@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3489956#Comment_3489956
Here. Second match of Set 1 Eternal loses to Singularity's Ghostface. Iirc, it was a 4K at 2 gens left.
I want to see even a single game, where they queue up in matchmaking and actually lose against someone not playing nurse blight or spirit and they aren't restricting themselves and are actually playing to win not to troll or get youtube clicks.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3489956#Comment_3489956
Here. Second match of Set 1 Eternal loses to Singularity's Ghostface. Iirc, it was a 4K at 2 gens left.
Ah, is this one of those "games" where the survivors have a bunch of restrictions in place like what perks they can brin and addons and such? And where the tournament has some kind of "point system" in place that actually gives the killers and survivors different objectives than the standard one to earn those points?
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@JustAShadow said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3489946#Comment_3489946
Haddonfield was disabled for a few months when the rework was in progress. I don't see why SM should be treated any different.
Because people didn't pay money for haddonfield and that was less about the rework and more about the fact that the map was constantly bugged. Any as a developer why waste time fixing bugs on something that is getting redone anyway.
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@Gaboozle said:
I want to hear with what people has to say about this. What do you think of this? (https://twitter.com/HensDBD/status/1682721291667750912?t=iXVG_jcp8p4DXWTcBrwb0w&s=19)
Here's a better question.
Can anyone show a video of a killer beating this team and not playing nurse, blight, or spirit, or doing some annoying strategy like this and just playing "normally"?
Or how about the fact that part of this killer's design is that when the survivors play like this they hear no terror radius, yet somehow they magically always know when the killer is going for them, because coms give them a massive advantage that you can't possibly ever get from perks?
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@Squippit said:
What’s an alternate objective you’d like to do to help you escape? Something advantageous to do, not just something that punishes you if you DONT do it
The reality is, holding m1 is boring, but thats all there is to do as survivor. What they need is 1 of 2 things.
A) A new game mode that makes chases the main part of the game (1v1 mode perhaps kind of like what people have now based on how fast you get the down?) Where you take turns and see who can get the most downs in x number of seconds or its based on who gets the down faster (think like overwatches payload maps/mode). Perhaps this could become their "ranked" mode and the current one we play is the "fun" mode. Because with such a mode, now we don't have to worry about whether killers and survivors are properly balanced around each other, because the "fun" mode can just be about fun. And the ranked mode now doesn't matter. If pig sucks for example, who cares, because you'll take turns playing pig and its about who downs faster, not about killing some number of survivors. So weaker killers are "balanced" such that its about who can down faster with that same killer not competing in some asymmetrical mess.
B) Completely overhaul the game to make chases the main part of the game, such as, you don't hold m1 on gens, you go around and collect generator parts and place them. Each gen has say, 5 parts you need to get spread around the map and are all tied to a specific gen (highlighted when picking up the part) and installing the part takes say, 5 seconds. Putting all the parts on finishes the gen. And rebalance the game for winning based on hooks instead of kills to incentivize chases and not camping/tunneling.
C) Another idea i have heard is turn the game into a teambased 5v5 (could be a separate mode) Where you have 2 killers and 8 survivors on the same map and they are competing for objectives. Your team's killer is stopping the other team's survivors and vice versa. And now, again, you aren't so worried about balance factors as hard because if survivors are super OP or killers are super OP, you have a set of survivors and a killer and your team as well so the asymmetrical imbalance is less of a problem.
Obviously B has tons of implications for completely overhauling the game and would need some kind of number tweaks and playtesting, balance decisions, perks, etc. But i think anything that encourages survivors to not sit and hold m1 but be moving around the map and having more interactions with the killer. And C is like an entirely different game, but the point still stands that something needs to happen.
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@Akumakaji said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/0110P0RUM3GI/devour-singularity.jpg
BTW, right after commenting in this thread, I tried a Devour build with the Singularity and that David dced the instance I downed him with Devour. After that I interrupted a cleansing of one of my hexes (possible Devour? Who knows ... in their infinite wisdom BHVR decided that the killer must not know which hex is which ^_- ) who died on hook and then it was basically game, with two survivors out.
Sadly I could only use one single pod the whole game, all others were EMPed the whole match and I had no opportunity to replace them. Singularity still plays really unfun and you feel oppressed by the survivors from the get go. So is Devour our next thing, then? Either winning high or losing extremely low?
When i run this build, people tend to DC when devour kicks in, or if they get downed by haunted grounds. That is why i made this thread. It actually happens probably around 30-40% of the time for me now.
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@BlueMoonBRUHMOMENT said:
I say this rhetorically as a no because facing a Demo is so rare, and I don't want a few bad apples to ruin demo for me.
But two matches back to back I have had survivors play hide and seek with me.
1st Match was 3 gens left, 2 survs left and I ended up searching for them for 12 mins.
2nd Match was 4 gens left, 2 survs left and I ended up searching for them for 9 mins.
I legitimately have to think about running spies because my perk has no aura reading,
Thrilling
Plaything
Deadlock
Jolt (surge)
Low and behold, I have never had this problem playing quite literally any other killer, not once.
So could someone explain why I keep getting toxic/bad surv's on Demo? and no other killer?
I have literally had DCs and people complain about literally every single killer. You won't please anyone, just do what you want. The reality is, the people who complain about this stuff are the same people that want you to play a killer, never use their power, and if you actually manage to hook someone, you must immediately run to the opposite end of the map, face a wall, wait for them to get unhooked and healed. THEN you can go chase another survivor. But God help you if you chase the one that you just hooked.
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@Kaitsja said:
You aren't being punished for playing fair and not tunneling. You were outplayed. That's all there is to it.
Sure MFT + Hope is broken, but Hope by itself would've had them escape anyway. Your problem is that once survivors finish those gens, your chances of winning decrease drastically and rightfully so. You, as the killer, failed to prevent the survivors from completing their objective.
What, exactly, do you think Killer should get once all the gens are done since you're clearly upset about hatch and that 4% self-unhook chance? Free hook states? 5% Haste?
Here's the thing about not tunneling: It isn't a free pass to do whatever they want. It's a chance for them to get well away from the hook. If they jump on a gen, try to blind you, bodyblock, or do anything aside from healing, then they're fair game.
Considering you typically lose 2-3 gens in the first chase and everyone always says: "As the game goes on killer is stronger" yeah i'd like to see something happen there.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3488370#Comment_3488370
Depends on which Hex build you're referring to. A Boon isn't doing anything against Penti/Devour/Ruin/Haunted, Plaything/Penti/whatever or Penti/Undying/Ruin/Haunted. Cleansing totems once, being exposed, and having a 30% gen speed debuff while having someone not even on a gen because they're cleansing again is a massive slowdown.
When you look at all of the gen defense perks that killers have had nerfed, to the point that the only decent one left is deadlock, is it any wonder that killers are playing other builds that force survivors off of gens? They nerfed pain res, they nerfed CoB, they nerfed overcharge, ruin is useless, eruption was nerfed pop was slightly buffed after a massive nerf, corrupt was nerfed, all for what. Because they knocked 10-15 seconds of progress of the gen? All while survivors are allowed to bring an item that knocks 20 seconds off their repair time and that's just per toolbox they bring (they can bring 4 of them)?
https://clips.twitch.tv/CrackyAnimatedGerbilRiPepperonis-sWkeCzPcBq0D_gBFDo you realize how long it takes to just hook a survivor after you already downed them? By the time you deal with the hit cooldown, pick the survivor up, walk to a hook, and go through the hook animation. Do you know how long that takes?
2.7 seconds + 3 seconds + 7 seconds (average to walk to a hook 50% of bar) + 1.5 seconds = 14.3 seconds. That doesn't even factor in the chase or pallets or anything, looking around for a flashlight save, or a pallet save and making sure someone isn't nearby? Just flat out, hit cooldown, picking them up and walking to a hook. And pain res basically recoups that lost time a little bit, and only 4 times now. Multiply that time by 3 survivors on a gen, thats 42.9 seconds. Almost half a gen of total progress for the team, just picking a goddamn survivor up off the ground and hooking them.
This is why killers are adapting now. It is clear that gen defense perks are too nerfed to compete in the new meta, the only thing now is to end chases as fast as possible, and to give survivors a second objective. The All hex build does exactly this. If they don't cleanse, you get devour, if they do, they might get haunted grounds. When they do, you get pentimento to slow the game down.
What else is left at this point? Should we all be running bloodhound and predator? Because i'll tell you, if they take this one away, you sure as hell aren't gonna like the slug meta. Because we won't have time left to even pick up survivors and hook them anymore.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Devour Hope is fine. But there's absolutely a conversation to be had about Pentimento in an all Hex build. It's an absurd amount of slowdown.
That entire build is hard countered by just bringing a boon, a map, or one of the 5 perks related to cleansing totems.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3487776#Comment_3487776
It should be.
I hope one day they will limit the total Gen regression time to 120 second or something, then they can buff Gen perks all they want. Gen perks should be strong, but just stack 4 of them is just stupid.
I don't think that is a good solution, because it overly complicates it. How do i know which gen ihave regressed x amount. Too much to keep track of as it is.
Better solution IMO, is introduce a 5th perk slot for killer, all gen defense perks go into that slot and can only go into that slot. Then every killer has 1 gen defense perk, and none of the others can stack. Then you can normalize them all. So lets say we decide that on average a generator should take 120 seconds to complete, so 5 gens take 10 minutes on average (split between 4 survivors). Then they buff/nerf all gen regression perks so over the course of a match, on average, they will extend the gen repair time to that. Then they can even buff the base repair speed to be faster even if they want, because now everyone gets a regression/defense perk. Numbers can be tweaked to w/e, but point is, normalize gen PROgression, then pick how long we want them to take, then normalize all gen REgression and defense, then make it so killers can only take 1 of those perks.
Basically, gen defense perks become the killer's version of "Exhaustion"
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3487708#Comment_3487708
old dying used to bounce totems meaning you had to potentially cleanse all 5 totems. survivors said it was overpowered so ruin undying got nerfed. that idea has already been tried.
the modern design of hex totems that works similarly to hex:undying is hex:plaything. you hook 1 survivor and 1 totem appears. you get slowdown by survivors cleansing 4 potencial totems. the only problem is that most hexes have a weak effect so survivor just ignore them. devour hope is one of only perks where its effect is strong enough for survivors to cleanse but that is possible to gen-rush through.
First of all, the old ruin undying meta was the healthiest the metagame has ever been in. Because it required killers to actually pressure survivors to get the benefit, and wasn't passively earned. Meaning that good survivors could still waste a killer's time.
Secondly the whole point is to rework the system so that hexes get weaker as the match goes on to prevent RNG on BOTH sides. How many situations have you been in as a survivor where you can't find the totem no matter what you do? Similarly, how often have you been a killer and had survivors literally spawn on your hex and cleanse it before you could physically walk to that part of the map.
The RNG suc0ks for both sides. But it was merely a suggestion. The point of this thread is the devour hope will be the next one that survivors complain about, and if you literally scroll through you can actually see people trying to make that case that it is OP. Which is proving my point more.
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@LeFennecFox said:
Devour hope is actually a pretty problematic perk because haunted grounds exists which basically forces lose/lose situation cleansing totems
See what i mean?
But seriously though, that is literally the purpose of haunted grounds, to make cleansing totems risky.
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@Kaitsja said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3487708#Comment_3487708
Whenever a Hex perk is in play, all dull totems become lit and become hex totems
Hex Devour hope: Cleansing a totem, reduces the number of stacks on devour by 1
0 totems: gone
1 totem: 100%
2 totems: 125%
3 totems: 150%
4 totems: 175%
Rework all Hex perks to have their power scale with the number of totems remaining. For exampleHex Ruin: Regresses gens at:5 totems: 200%
When multiple hexes are in play, they are all affected by the same totems, so if you had say devour and ruin, cleansing 1 totem would weaken each one.
Believe it or not, TrU3Ta1ent had a similar idea. The problem with this idea is that hexes would have to be nerfed across the board to be far less powerful. I just don't see killer mains being on board with that idea.
A simpler idea would be to make it so all totems for the first 45 seconds of the trial appear as dull, or add in a corrupt intervention style mechanic for totems to protect them in the early game, ensuring that you will always get some value out of them.
You wouldn't actually have to do that though, because there is only 1 useful hex perk these days, and the other ones are only useful because people want to cleanse that one. Every other hex perk can be safely ignored at this point. If anything you'd have to buff many of them to be useful.
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@Riski said:
As a killer who uses devour hope, it's a super silly perk. A perk shouldn't solo a game because a totem happened to spawn in the right spot and as much as people like moris or the tense situations it creates losing to this perk more than once in a short period goes from unique and fun to frustating very quickly. The perk isn't an issue in small quanities but if this perk had a higher playrate then you'd go from match to match where the outcome is entirely dependent on if a single hex is found, you could argue this for any hex but most of them can be powered through if needed (although that is unideal) while powering through devour gets the killer 5 stacks which is almost unwinable. Perks fine atm but if you have truely been blessed with the power of prophecy and it's the next hot thing then maybe it can be an issue.
As mentioned previously, that is literally the definition of how hex perks should work. Hexes, in theory, are supposed to be high risk high reward. Because yeah, devour is powerful, but it also can get cleansed 30 seconds into the match. The problem is that most hex perks are terrible now, such that, the only really good ones left are devour, pentimento, haunted ground, undying, and MAYBE plaything. But the reality is that haunted ground, pentimento, and plaything are based around survivors cleansing the totems. Which the only hex perk worth cleansing is devour.
I actually don't disagree with you in principle on hex perks. I personally think they should rework the entire hex system to be less frontloaded and RNG based. Basically i would do this personally:
- Whenever a Hex perk is in play, all dull totems become lit and become hex totems
- Rework all Hex perks to have their power scale with the number of totems remaining. For example
- Hex Ruin: Regresses gens at:
- 5 totems: 200%
- 4 totems: 175%
- 3 totems: 150%
- 2 totems: 125%
- 1 totem: 100%
- 0 totems: gone
- Hex Devour hope: Cleansing a totem, reduces the number of stacks on devour by 1
- Hex Ruin: Regresses gens at:
- When multiple hexes are in play, they are all affected by the same totems, so if you had say devour and ruin, cleansing 1 totem would weaken each one.
Then they rework some of the other perks like haunted ground, plaything, pentimento etc. to do different things or set them up to work in this new system. My personal favorite is that Hex: Undying actually becomes Hex: UNDYING in the sense that, it makes it so your totem always acts as if it has 1 totem remaining even if all totems are cleansed.
These are just numbers examples off the top of my head and i'm sure it would all need tweaking. But the general gist is to normalize hex perks a bit, for both sides too. As mentioned in this thread, it sucks when RNG makes it so you can't find that 1 totem. But in this case, if there are 5 totems that are lit, you'll have more opportunities to cleanse the totems meaning that the hex will get progressively weaker until maybe you can just ignore the perk entirely, or it becomes less of a concern for you. For example, in my example of devour, really you probably only need to cleanse 2 or 3 totems before it doesn't matter because by then they will have already hooked everyone enough times and can't gain any more stacks anyway.
Food for thought.
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@Desteriaa said:
If Made for this is bad so Is bloodlust.
If made for this rewards the survivor for being "bad" at chase so does Bloodlust…
In the current state of dbd Neither should Exist In my opinion especially bloodlust considering it was a mechanic meant to counter infinites but infinites don’t exist anymore so I think that it maybe shouldn’t past tier 1.
As for Mtf I don’t think the perk should have two effects but then again 3% isn’t really much and the endurance is hard to get value from if the killer isn’t slugging.
This has already been talked about and mathed over. The reality is that movement speed increases are more powerful on survivor than killer.
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@IHSGames said:
Ever since Smash hit exhaustion timer got changed for 40 seconds to 20 (tier 3) how about we do the same for both Balanced Landing and Head On?
Balanced Landing is still really good but it's very limited to high elevation areas, which if you want to use it, you have to navigate there first, and not just that, high elevation areas are limited to begin with. You wont get a lot of value out of Balance to really justify it having a 60 second exhaustion meter unlike Lithe and Sprint Burst which you can use either frequently, Lithe being the only one with a prerequisite but vaults are everywhere in most maps so you'll still get more use.
Head-On is different. There's lockers everywhere but Head On already requires you to hide in a locker for 3 seconds, which can backfire heavily without Quick & Quiet if in the middle of a chase or if the killer knows you have Head On. You also have to time the Head On stun right as the killer can bait it. Unlike Sprint Burst or Lithe, this perk doesn't give you much distance as well as having a lot of downsides that can greatly backfire with it. And once the killer knows you have head On, you won't get much value from it afterwards
Both perks should have 20 seconds of Exhaustion to justify their preparations when it comes to their activations, downsides and as well as their overall less usage throughout the trials.
Someone wasn't around pre-nerf balanced landing. That would make it really dumb in some maps. Head on could probably do for a similar buff as its mostly a meme, but i'd be wary as it has a lot of potential to be abused by SWF to make a killer's life miserable.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3487453#Comment_3487453
How exactly is it my fault if the Killer wants to hard tunnels me?
Im not talking about people running into the Killer or making obvious mistakes, Im not talking about tunneling for pressure, Im talking about actually focusing a player to remove them from the game and deny them Bloodpoints because they hate that player.
Ive had MANY matches where Killers get looped for too long and throw the match to kill me specifically because they were too stubborn to chase someone else. And in most matches I die with barely any points while my teammates can easily escape.
The idea that people get punished based on the amount of Bloodpoints they earn will just create more toxicity, where certain Killers will go out of their way to deny as much points as possible to a certain player to punish them.
Ok, so i want you to go back and read my post, and explain to me where you could possible read anything i wrote there as "it is your fault if the killer wants to hard tunnel you"
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@crogers271 said:
This isn't exactly a work of prophecy. The meta has changed, certain perks have become stronger, it's perfectly normal that some people would think they are now too strong.
My problem with devour hope has always been the randomness of it. It can be cleansed instantly or win the match on its own. In that sense it's just not a great perk design
That is quite literally the purpose of a Hex perk. They are supposed to be high risk high reward. The problem is that most of them are terrible and the only real good ones left have been nerfed into oblivion. The only remaining one being devour hope, and the only reason the "All hexes" build works, is because devour hope has to be cleansed, otherwise none of the totems would get cleansed and you would have 0 perks.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3487329#Comment_3487329
I do not agree with the 3rd point.
Sometimes, you get hard tunneled and you barely get any points because the Killer wants to remove you from the match. How exactly do you punish people who run to the Killer without punishing Survivors who are getting tunneled?
If you get hard tunneled out you'll still land at least 7-8k points. I think this needs to be consistent, multiple matches worth of getting less than 5k for example. That would indicate that you are doing something you shouldn't be. It also shouldn't be based off a single match, but a pattern of behavior.
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@drsoontm said:
I've just played a game as Nurse that the survivors had no chance winning. At 5 gens left, I could have finished the game as three were slugged and a fourth one was hurt.
Instead I've stopped the massacre to hook the three slugs and let the number 4 reset them. (Then I hooked the last one so they all get the same treatment.)
For the remaining of the match, I've chased and downed them, never hooking and letting them progress gens. I've left the Jill alone because she had given up from the start. I didn't want to break her further.
The Ace (clearly the best runner) took that opportunity to ask to be chased (because it's fun, or because it's good training, who knows?). And since I enjoyed him more than the others, he got my attention for the last few chases of the game.
And after a relatively long game of slug & heal ...
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/P1K9SCAQQ5NV/20230715193119-1.jpg
So this makes me think. Maybe a game mode where it's not about kills but about downs or hooks would be more fun for everybody? Maybe the length of the chases would be a factor? I feel there is something there.
After all, what we don't like is usually the time pressure of the generators or being sacrificed. If it's off the table, isn't it better?
What do you think?
As a nurse main, this is actually how i play nurse now. I run my normal perk build but throw in rancor. My goal is to 2 hook every survivor, then just max out the other bloodpoint categories. Then when the last generator finishes, my goal is to kill and mori my obsession. The rest get to escape.
This does a few things:
- I generally get 36k bloodpoints (max in brutality, deviousness, and hunter, and around 75% sacrifice
- Survivors generally get 30k+ bloodpoints
- My MMR goes down so my next match is more chill
- Survivors are usually happy about escaping and less toxic
If i get a game where someone DCs or kills themselves on hook, my MMR dipped too much because the match is too easy, i play a normal game and go for a 4k to get myself back to that sweet spot. The reason i kill the obsession is to get a free "mori" while still being able to do bloodpoint offering. Additionally, the obsession gets some bonus points for being killed as the obsession, so it somewhat offsets the fact that they were the ones who were killed.