Reinami
Reinami
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- Reinami
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Threads like this are why i legit think that survivor players literally just don't like the game at all. And it makes me wonder why they keep playing it.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3466735#Comment_3466735
They’re probably basing it on numbers. That because something ‘feels’ overpowered doesn’t mean, logistically, it is.
Sure, but if it "FEELS" bad to play against it, even if it isn't inherently overpowered, then it needs to be changed. Playing against a team of survivors who are running MFT and hope and get to the endgame for the sole purpose of just bullying you around because they run the same speed as a killer is a problem.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3466872#Comment_3466872
Simply don't do gens.
I like how you take what i said, create a strawman, then argue against that.
The person said:
"Bruh if you are repairing a gen in a dead zone and you hear the wraith, you are screwed."
The answer to that is, why are you repairing a gen in a dead zone when you don't know where the wraith is or you don't have some way to deal with that? This is precisely the problem with survivors in general. They expect every single killer to be "countered" by doing the exact same thing, but that is not the case. Some killers are better at some things, but worse at others. That is just the nature of the game.
To expound a bit on my statement though. Wraith is great at catching the survivor by surprise. If there is a generator that you know is in a dead zone, you should not be repairing it unless:
- You know where the wraith is
- You have a perk like sprint burst or lithe with a nearby window to get to safety if the wraith appears
- You are not injured.
Especially that last one. You need to use game sense and examine what is happening so you can make a decision about what the best play is. Survivors don't have to repair every single generator, go try and repair a generator NOT in a dead zone. And if "wraith is camping it" then sounds like you CAN repair that generator in that dead zone because the wraith is busy doing other things.
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@Merudo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3465634#Comment_3465634
Bruh if you are repairing a gen in a dead zone and you hear the wraith, you are screwed.
Your problem there is repairing a gen in a dead zone. If you know its a wraith, you shouldn't be doing that kind of thing unless you know the wraith is occupied somewhere else.
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@BougieBlackChick said:
I’ll be happy when it’s over because it’s nothing but Uber tunneling and camping killers every single match. All 5 people bring the BP offering just for the survivors to leave with 5-10K while the killers leave with 40-50K base points. My last three matches were 5K, 8K and 10K because of tunneling and camping.
Add to that the fact that they made this event way easier for killer than survivor. All killers had to do to get cosmetics was collect an invite. Survivors had to collect it and then survive until exit gates were powered which is exceedingly difficult when you’re only getting tunneling and camping killers.
Then the discrepancy in how much easier it is for killers to get extra anniversary points (hooks, which they can get up to 12) vs completed gens, (there’s only 5 between 4 survivors)
This whole event was just poorly planned, unbalanced and has been made miserable by people who only seem to be out to ruin it for others.
Also the pallet spawn ability is worthless because is shatters the pallet as soon as you drop it so you can’t use the pallet to block a killer, only to stun them which rarely works if ever. No point in using the event abilities at all honestly.
When they make it so survivors don't have to reach endgame or escape, it makes the game miserable FOR survivors. Because then teammates will just kill themselves on hook constantly as soon as they get their cosmetic. The fact that this time all it takes is to survivor to endgame rather than escaping is great too, because it means that you don't have to screw over teammates in the endgame to get your cosmetic. There are 12 cosmetics. You mean to tell me that in 20 days, you can't manage to survivor to endgame 12 times? Even you only play survivor, that should be very very doable. The problem is you are trying to "grind" out the cosmetics and get them all at once.
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@MigrantTheGreat said:
Gen speeds are fine. Map designs and maps being RNG are the issue along with poor killer designs
Gen speeds are not fine, because unless they nerf maps so that the average chase (both hits) lasts 25 seconds, you will never have enough time against an efficient team. And just holding shift + w with the speed boost you get will at minimum extend the chase another 13 seconds. Or you'll guarantee losing 3 gens in the first chase. Which leads to 3-genning being more of a strategy which everyone seems to hate.
What they need to do is even the game out, so that the killer is stronger in the early game, but weaker in the late game. (such that their power is relatively static, barring differences in the killers themselves) That way the game isn't completely decided in the first 45 seconds of a match going on and that the game isn't about snowballing to victory so hard that the other side has a terrible match.
The game should be fun for both sides whether they win or lose. Right now, the game is always miserable to some person or person(s) in the game.
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@Pink_Ronin said:
Wraith is A-tier right now. They should have never removed the lightburn mechanic, you basically need to be right on top of a really good tile when you're spotted or you're taking a hit.
Unless you are hearing impaired in some way, you can hear the snarling from so far away that the stealth basically is only useful for that first chase before everyone knows you are wraith.
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@patronsaintofpizza said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3464652#Comment_3464652
There are some survivor main heads exploding somewhere while reading the definition of scrub lol.
I think the thing about this concept in DBD that is most wild to me is that a lot of survivor players that complain about killers playing sweaty will themselves play sweaty. Basically there's this mentality of "it's ok for me to sweat, but not you." I think the event has exacerbated this mentality because everyone wants their masks in the first day and want to get 300k BP every match.
This game has always been a big outlier to me, because i come from the FGC playing games like MvC2 where if you aren't exploiting infinites and glitches and "cheap things" then you aren't going to win. It is funny to me to think what the community of DBD would act like if they were transplanted into that community. Or could you imagine to the Smash Melee community? You'd have people talking about how unfair wavedashing is, or that fox is OP.
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@1ettuce said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3434485#Comment_3434485
The response to a whataboutism is supposed to be "multiple things can be problematic at once" but you're saying one of the things is and the other isn't, there's nothing wrong with my whataboutism if you're quite literally proving my point with the hypocrisy. If 1 kill is still a loss then hissy fits shouldn't have been thrown over ds/otr in endgame since the match results in a loss for the killer either way
Sick necro bro.
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@patronsaintofpizza said:
I keep seeing all over social media and even have friends that say their survivor games are nothing but slugging, camping, and tunneling. I primarily play solo queue and play it A LOT and rarely encounter these things in matches and if I do they're even more rarely super egregious cases.
Tonight I played solo queue for almost 5 hours, and had some light camping in a few matches during EGC, no apparent tunneling, and only one instance of slugging. I never understand why people say solo queue is so bad when the majority of my matches are fine. Even when I have days of almost no escapes, the games are still mostly fun.
Is the problem really that bad and I'm just a rare exception? Curious to hear from others.
The problem is that multiple different people will have multiple different definitions of this exact thing. For example.
Tunneling:
- Is it tunneling if someone intentionally goes after the person who was just unhooked and completely ignores everyone and everything else? Most would say yes.
- But, when if i'm doing that because the person just used deliverance before i left the area, is that still tunneling?
- What about when someone immediately unhooked them before i could even fully walk away and then i go for the unhooker, but the unhooked guy forces me to hit them by body blocking?
- What about when i hook someone in a dead zone, and then i start chasing someone else, but the person i start chasing is running to an area of the map with shack linked to a jungle gym, linked to the fun bus? Should i throw the game to chase that other guy? Or go after the weak one who was just unhooked. Is that tunneling?
- What if i'm using a perk combination like Remember me and we are near endgame and i need to remove the obsession. Is that tunneling?
- What if i saw the survivor immediately went back to a generator instead of healing themselves or getting healed because they wanted to "tunnel" the gen. Is that still tunneling if i go after them?
Camping:
- Is it camping if i play leatherface and sit there waiting to chainsaw anyone? Most would say yes.
- But, if i'm playing trapper and i hook someone in basement and place a bunch of traps that someone steps in while i'm away. Is that still camping?
- What if i'm playing hag, and place a couple of traps near the hook, then they go off and i teleport. Is that still camping?
- What if i'm using a MYC build and demogorgon, and teleport over just as the unhook happens to instadown the unhooker?
- What if i downed a survivor who was hiding nearby to get the save and they didn't realize i saw them while i was hooking. If i stay there because i have 2 survivors there, am i still camping? At that point, if i pick up the survivor, i'm giving the others a free unhook. And 2 survivors can't completely 5 gens by themselves before the timer runs out, so its a good play to make in that case.
- If we hit endgame, and the gates are 99'ed and i hook someone and camp them, is that still camping? (hint: a lot of people still think this is "camping", but i don't. i mean, what else am i supposed to do at that point, i have no other objective)
Slugging:
- Is it slugging if i down all 4 survivors and let them bleed out for 4 minutes? Most would say yes.
- But, what if i'm using a build specifically for slugging, using knock out, and infectious fright, and so on, is that still "slugging"? There are perks literally designed for it...
- What if i'm playing Oni, and i down someone with my power, but i know someone is nearby, is that slugging?
- What if i down someone, and i know someone is going to go for the flashlight or pallet save so i go after them. Is that slugging?
- What if it is the last remaining survivor, and they ran to a corner where there are no hooks and get downed, knowing it is impossible to hook them. Is that slugging?
- What if i'm playing a killer that has a timed power, and i down someone, such as t3 myers. And i know someone else is nearby, is that slugging?
- What if a gen is about to be completed and i see survivors working on it, and i just down a survivor, is that slugging?
The reality is, there are people that exist that would answer yes to every single one of those. And then there are people that exist that would say No to the majority of them. The reality of the situation though is? Why assign subjective labels to anything, when the goal is the same. The killer is playing to win. They are using the strategy they think is going to give them the highest odds of winning the game.
I would suggest reading the free e-book "Playing to Win" by Game designer David Sirlin:
Introduction I am here to teach you to win. Playing to win is the most important and most widely misunderstood concept in all of competitive games. The sad irony is that those who do not already understand the implications I will spell out will probably not believe them to be true at all. In fact,Here is an except from the book that exemplifies this exact "issue" imo.
Introducing...the Scrub
The derogatory term “scrub” means several different things. One definition is someone (especially a game player) who is not good at something (especially a game). By this definition, we all start out as scrubs, and there is certainly no shame in that. I mean the term differently, though. A scrub is a player who is handicapped by self-imposed rules that the game knows nothing about. A scrub does not play to win.
Now, everyone begins as a poor player—it takes time to learn a game to get to a point where you know what you’re doing. There is the mistaken notion, though, that by merely continuing to play or “learn” the game, one can become a top player. In reality, the “scrub” has many more mental obstacles to overcome than anything actually going on during the game. The scrub has lost the game even before it starts. He’s lost the game even before deciding which game to play. His problem? He does not play to win.
The scrub would take great issue with this statement for he usually believes that he is playing to win, but he is bound up by an intricate construct of fictitious rules that prevents him from ever truly competing. These made-up rules vary from game to game, of course, but their character remains constant. Let’s take a fighting game off of which I’ve made my gaming career: Street Fighter.
In Street Fighter, the scrub labels a wide variety of tactics and situations “cheap.” This “cheapness” is truly the mantra of the scrub. Performing a throw on someone is often called cheap. A throw is a special kind of move that grabs an opponent and damages him, even when the opponent is defending against all other kinds of attacks. The entire purpose of the throw is to be able to damage an opponent who sits and blocks and doesn’t attack. As far as the game is concerned, throwing is an integral part of the design—it’s meant to be there—yet the scrub has constructed his own set of principles in his mind that state he should be totally impervious to all attacks while blocking. The scrub thinks of blocking as a kind of magic shield that will protect him indefinitely. Why? Exploring the reasoning is futile since the notion is ridiculous from the start.
You will not see a classic scrub throw his opponent five times in a row. But why not? What if doing so is strategically the sequence of moves that optimizes his chances of winning? Here we’ve encountered our first clash: the scrub is only willing to play to win within his own made-up mental set of rules. These rules can be staggeringly arbitrary. If you beat a scrub by throwing projectile attacks at him, keeping your distance and preventing him from getting near you—that’s cheap. If you throw him repeatedly, that’s cheap, too. We’ve covered that one. If you block for fifty seconds doing no moves, that’s cheap. Nearly anything you do that ends up making you win is a prime candidate for being called cheap. Street Fighter was just one example; I could have picked any competitive game at all.
Doing one move or sequence over and over and over is a tactic close to my heart that often elicits the call of the scrub. This goes right to the heart of the matter: why can the scrub not defeat something so obvious and telegraphed as a single move done over and over? Is he such a poor player that he can’t counter that move? And if the move is, for whatever reason, extremely difficult to counter, then wouldn’t I be a fool for not using that move? The first step in becoming a top player is the realization that playing to win means doing whatever most increases your chances of winning. That is true by definition of playing to win. The game knows no rules of “honor” or of “cheapness.” The game only knows winning and losing.
A common call of the scrub is to cry that the kind of play in which one tries to win at all costs is “boring” or “not fun.” Who knows what objective the scrub has, but we know his objective is not truly to win. Yours is. Your objective is good and right and true, and let no one tell you otherwise. You have the power to dispatch those who would tell you otherwise, anyway. Simply beat them.
At the end of the day, anyone complaining about these tactics, is simply a scrub. Because these tactics have counters, and these tactics are counters to certain things that survivors do. The reason that tunneling, and camping and slugging is working, is because the survivors let it work, by making a bad decision. You can argue that these things are "unfun" or "boring" or anything else you want, but the killer is playing to win. If those tactics are "unfun" and "boring" and whatever else. The person you should be directing your anger toward, is not the player using them. It is the developers who allow such tactics to exist.
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@JustAnotherNewbie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3463208#Comment_3463208
What mathematically? You have no math in your post.
Survivors who do the 3 closest gens at the edge of the map are not gonna predrop. I've still lost games where we've done 3 gens on first chase, it's pretty common for someone to throw or for gens to become harder to complete.
I've played games where a person cleansed 2-3 times in the span of a minute vs Plague. He cleansed before saving an infected teammate, then got infected and he cleansed again. And then I've had games with randoms who somehow we're sharing a brain and they know to body guard etc. Although those ofc are rare. Even I have wildly different skill expression in my games. I could fall in 15 seconds or take over a minute or more to go down.
What is the average experience? Are killers really having all that trouble getting 3-4k on average? Because last time the stats were released it showed they were doing quite well, even the weaker ones.
Is your argument taking into consideration only SWF? Only solo's who are all decent to good? Because everyone who plays solo survivor and has posted here talks about getting matched with newbies.
I even have games vs killers who are pretty decent and they somehow get matched with people who might not have played a lot. What's going on there?
The game usually slows down after the first 3 gens more often than not. Do you even play solo survivor?
You should look at my post history. But sure, here is the math i post all the time around here:
Some data:
Survivor movement speed: 4.0 m/s
Survivor post hit movement speed duration: 1.8 seconds
Survivor post hit movement speed: 6.0 m/s
Killer movement speed: 4.6 m/s
Killer movement speed while carrying survivor: 3.68 m/s
Killer Terror Radius: 32 meters
Killer hit cooldown: 2.7 seconds
Killer pick up speed: 3 seconds
Killer hook speed: 1.5 seconds
Generator repair speeds: 90 seconds
Average distance to hook: 12 meters
Average human response time: 273 ms (https://humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime)
Average map size: 9850 square meters (~99.25x99.25 meters for a square)
So, let's assume killers and survivors all spawn at opposite ends of the map. The survivors spend the first 20 seconds looking for a generator and the killer spends the first 20 seconds running to the opposite end of the map. With a killer having a 32 meter terror radius, and taking into account movement speeds and human reaction time. if we take the human reaction time and 6x it to account for figuring out the direction the killer is coming from and making sure you can run the opposite direction, the survivor will spot the killer in 1638 ms. To make math simpler let's round it up to 2 second. during this time the killer gets 9.2 meters closer. So now the killer is 22.8 meters away. During this time the survivor runs in the exact opposite direction of the killer.
Remember, no powers, no pallets, no windows, just a straight line. In order for the killer to catch up to the 5 meters (lunge is 6 meters but taking into account human reactions and lag and spinning and such, we say 5) required for lunge distance the killer needs to move 17.8 meters to close the gap. The difference in movement speed between them is .6, this means the killer closes the 17.8 meter gap in 29.66 seconds. The killer then lands a hit.
The survivor then runs in a straight line and the killer is unable to move much for 2.7 seconds. During 1.8 of those seconds the survivor is moving at 6 m/s and for 4 m/s for .9 seconds. This means the survivor gets 14.4 meters way. The killer now has to close a gap of 9 meters for a lunge. It takes the killer 15 seconds to catch up to the survivor and land another hit.
The killer now picks the survivor up taking 5.7 seconds (3 seconds for picking up, and 2.7 seconds for attack cooldown), and they walk to the nearest hook about 12 meters away. This takes 3.25 seconds, the hooking action takes 1.5 seconds.
The time to find this survivor, hit them once, catch up, hit them again, pick them up walk to a hook and hook them took: 29.66 + 15 + 5.7 + 3.25 + 1.5 = 55.11 seconds. This would mean the killer would likely lose 2 gens in the first chase. (just barely reaching the 3rd survivor before it finishes).
Now, if you do this during the first chase, you lose 2-3 gens in the first chase. During the second chase, you are gonna lose .75 gens, and during the 3rd chase, you will lose another .75 gens, and during the 4th, the last gen will finish up. 4 chases. Now the part you might realize is, i am not factoring in killer power sure, but i'm also not factoring in pallets, windows, looping, perks. anything. This is strictly holding shift + w. You can at minimum delay a killer's time by 55 seconds.
Now sure, you can factor in killer power, but now lets factor in pallets. Unless the killer is a blight or a nurse, typically you can just predrop a god pallet. Every predropped god pallet will result in the killer being forced to break it, and again, extending the chase by, at minimum, 15 seconds. So in this world, all the survivor needs to do, is predrop a pallet or 2 that the killer is forced to break, and the killer has just lost 3 gens in the first chase.
Now i'm sure the next thing you will say is, But not every survivor is "efficient" like this, sometimes people are doing challenges, or some other thing. Sure, when you look at the "AVERAGE" player. But then i ask a simple question. Should this game be balanced around AVERAGE players, or top level players? Because if you say the game should be balanced around AVERAGE players, then there is a simple data point that i'm sure you are ignoring.
The devs balance this game around a 60% kill rate. Now, you might say "that is unfair, it should be 50%" whatever, that's fine, but you need to take that up with the devs. It is their stated goal, to shoot for a 60% kill rate. So now, if we say the game should be balanced around the AVERAGE player, then do you see the problem here? By FAR the NURSE is the WORST killer in the game, a full 8% lower than the stated goal. Sounds like she needs MASSIVE buffs. Also, it looks like Sadako is OP at 63%, so we should be nerfing her a bit as well. Blight probably needs some buffs as well. And, oh look, pig is slightly overtuned a bit, maybe should nerf an addon or 2 to bring her more in line with more BALANCED killers, like myers?
Hopefully you see the point here, and that is that balancing around AVERAGE players is obviously ridiculous. Because if you do, you have to face some hard truths about the game, which is that nurse needs massive buffs then.
Next i'm sure you are going to jump to the logic of: "Well yeah but most people aren't bringing all this OP stuff like hyperfocus, commodius toolboxes, BNPs etc. Nor are nurses brining all of these god kits in the game and 4king everyone instantly. And you know what, i actually agree with you here. You won't encounter these things that often. But that doesn't mean that they aren't overpowered, or that they are fine.
This community listens to otzdarva quite a bit, And rightfully so. So here is a clip of him discussing this exact issue. Just because something is rare, doesn't mean its fine.
https://clips.twitch.tv/AwkwardMildFerretPipeHype-0ehry4t4zExHh7BoAnd herein lies the massive problem with this game. If you watch any high level game, you'll see that matches are decided in pretty much the first 30-45 seconds. Additionally, at a super high level, this game is massively imbalanced. Both sides can bring stupid things, and RNG can completely destroy a match just depending on what stupid loops and structures can spawn. Again, for both sides. You can have one map that spawns 6 pallets and multiple dead zones, and another on the same map that gets 2x as many pallets, and multiple jungle gyms spawning right next to shack.
I think, for the sake of EVERYONE (both sides) that some fundamental changes need to be done to the game:
- Camping should be completely impossible from a gameplay perspective, it just isn't fun to get camped.
- Tunneling should be completely impossible from a gameplay perspective.
- "gen rushing" needs to be looked at, survivors need to be given a secondary objective that they are FORCED to do, or be punished by.
- A pass needs to be made on like 70% of the killers being totally useless because if you aren't blight/spirit/nurse forget about any chance of winning against a good team.
- The differences between SWF and solo need to be seriously looked at. I counted how many perks survivors have that just give information about what their teammates are doing. And being in a SWF group on discord gives your whole team 40+ perks for free, on top of the 16 they already get. On top of that, they get tons of "perks" that aren't actually "perks" in the way they can coordinate and communicate.
- The speed at which the game is decided and the early game need to be evened out. The early game is basically non-existent at a high level and lasts for about 45 seconds. I think we should be shooting for a match of DBD to last around 8-10 minutes or so. Win or lose for both sides, 8-10 minutes is a solid match that is long enough to feel like you did something, but short enough to not feel too long. The early game needs to be extended, and the late middlegame (3 genning) needs to be shortend). Basically, the game should "feel" the same length at every phase.
Lastly, the game should be balanced around the best players, not the average players. While taking into account the average players and their experience so that it is at least "fun". Here is a video explaining this very thing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1p42KtZOCw&t=203sI timestamped it to the relevant point that talks about the BASE Jumper item in TF2 and i think it exemplifies exactly the kind of thing i'm talking about. You can nerf the killer shack for example, and you won't hurt the average survivor player, because the average survivor isn't using killer shack to any decent level, they are busy predropping it, and getting hit through it anyway, wasting the pallet and still getting hit, then wasting their sprint burst and going down 4 seconds later. You aren't going to hurt these players who go down in 10 seconds, because they aren't using these structures to their full potential to begin with.
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
I think you mean when a Survivor gives up on a Hook when they are hooked for the first time.
Well, how would you fix it then? I don't see any way other than removing the unhook self button which would also be nerf to Survivors in some specific situations.
Also is not more than 1 year but more like more than 7 years.
They should remove the 4%, its a stupid mechanic. The fact that a game can completely be swung due to complete RNG is absolutely ridiculous in this day and age. Remove 4%, rework luck mechanic, deliverance can stay because it isn't RNG based, so its fine.
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@JustAnotherNewbie said:
Just cause 3 gen pops doesn't mean your game is doomed. If survivors do the first gen they spawn close to chances are they completed the 3 closest gens at the edge of the map. So if you're perceptive and notice you can always contest certain gens instead of commiting to chases and some killers (not just Blight and Nurse) don't have any trouble doing that. With Blight and Nurse it's just easier to contest gens that are in the edges, but if the survivors completed the wrong gens you might be able to salvage that.
As a survivor I've also had games where survivors (or even myself) go down before even a gen is completed and it's not that rare.
Survivors can't come back from a game where their teammate dies at 5 gens like 99% of the time. But killers can come back from getting their first hook at 2-3 gens because unless the looper is godly he probably used up a lot of resources if he took you through the whole map so subsequent chases will be much easier.
Mathematically though? You are doomed. Because at that point, survivors can just predrop every single pallet, and you are guaranteed to lose. Survivors losing the game at that point, is just because they start trolling, or playing badly because they get confident. The game basically hinges on:
- Do the survivors finish 3 gens before/during your first hook, if so, you lose.
- Do you down the first survivor and hook them before the first gen pops, if so, you probably win, because you can proxy camp it out.
This isn't a healthy state for the game, in either case. They need to do something to rebalance the game and even it out, such that the game isn't decided in basically the first 60 seconds. It isn't fun for anyone involved.
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@Slaphappyhobbit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3463105#Comment_3463105
You....you realize that's how game balancing actually works right? You're supposed to balance around top end play, not low end play.
Don't ever say that in the DBD community. For some reason this game magically is the only multiplayer game ever made where we should only balance around average level players. But also still need to nerf nurse somehow.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3461750#Comment_3461750
spirit and slinger were like that in old dbd. survivor just said it was just flipping a coin. no skill involved.
Sure, and my point is, they are wrong. You condition your opponent to think you are going to do one thing, and once they suspect that, you do the opposite, and you are rewarded for it. At that point, you are in their head and they won't know what to do.
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@Hex_this said:
Just posting to make it aware that the event challenge where you must activate the invitation in chase three times isn't registering. I've done it at least three times now and it hasn't registered a single one.
It doesn't mention anything about doing it in a single trial so I'm unsure if that's the aim or if it's just not working for me.
I had the same problem and realized that it only works if you actually "use" the effect. So, for enduring, you have to actually get stunned by a pallet. Found it easier to just go for exposed, even if the survivor is injured they still get exposed so it should work.
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@Cassiopeiae said:
Almost everything that's involved in a chase feels like a guess (to me).
Every LoS break, every doubleback, it just feels like both parties are just guessing.
Loops spawn randomly and you're blasted with chase music that makes it so you can't really hear footsteps on another side of a wall/ prop very well.
I can't stop thinking that I'm either missing something crucial after thousands of hours of gameplay or the gameplay itself is just way too random.
So, i'll try to explain this in terms of fighting games because that is the best way i know how, but its not "just a guess". Its an "educated guess" based on conditioning.
For example, a game of street fighter, where i can throw a fireball, my opponent can jump over it and combo me, and i have an anti-air move. If i knock my opponent down, then throw a fireball, forcing them to block, then immediately throw a 2nd fireball, this is what i do. I can now do this several times in a row, i have "conditioned" them to think that, everytime they block that fireball, i'm going to throw a second one. So, maybe after 2 times of doing it, i go to do it a 3rd time. But on this 3rd time, i don't do it, but they think i'm going to, so they jump, but i didn't throw the fireball, so now i can anti-air them.
The same is true in DBD. Think about maybe pyramid head. If i'm playing PH, and i wind up my power just as a survivor is about to vault, but then cancel it. Now the survivor thinks that is what i do. Maybe the next time i do it, i don't cancel it, and i commit to using my power. Because i "conditioned" the survivor into thinking i'm going to cancel it, they just vault thinking i'll cancel, but then i don't.
Yeah, you could argue that the "first time" is just a guess, but the moves they make and the way they play can give me insight into what i think they might do based on that. Do they run early? Are they predropping pallets? Maybe they are panicking a bit, so i think they are going to just vault because they want to get to safetly. There are plenty of ways you can read your opponent and "guess" what they are going to do. But ut isn't just a blind guess, its educated based on what they do.
Even rock, paper, scissors is more than just "guessing"
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@Kirarozu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3461428#Comment_3461428
Maybe you're just wrong. I don't know why you're so bent out of shape because I asked if she got nerfed.
I really feel like you are all assuming i'm being rude here.
I WANT to be wrong, that's why i really want you to share a video so we can all learn from it.
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@rysm said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3461371#Comment_3461371
Ok but why do you care? lol I get it's nice to learn from people but just assume the best of the person and everyone can be happy for the rest of rest day :) Also was Sadako not one of the top performing killers in High MMR based on the data the devs gave us a while back?
I...literally explained to you why i care?
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3461260#Comment_3461260
It isn’t.
There is also an offering that compels survivors to spawn together.
Correct, and it is a survivor offering. The offerings for spawns are actually on the wrong teams. The survivor one makes them stay close together (what they do not want) and the killer one makes them spawn separate (what they do not want)
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@rysm said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3461337#Comment_3461337
Are you ok? Why are you so pressed that someone enjoys and is good at playing a certain killer? lol Why does that person have anything to prove to you? Maybe they're new, maybe they've 5K hours - what's it to you?
This thread started with OP stating something that i believe to be true along with nearly every content creator for DBD. Then, this person comes in, and says: "Shes fine, i have no problems 4king with her" Based on that, either one of 3 things must be true:
- 1. The person in question has low/average MMR, so the survivors they are going against are of average MMR, and data indicates that this means that sadako is actually OP in average level play
- 2. The person in question has discovered something that many many people have not been able to discover and is actually able to use sadako in a way that is yet to be discovered, or at least widely shared among the community.
- 3. The person is lying or overestimates how often they win.
Now, i personally doubt they are lying (i tend to assume ignorance rather than malice in cases where i think people are wrong about something), but they could be overestimating how often they "have no problems getting 4ks". I'm inclined to believe it is likely that they are overestimating how well they are playing, but that 1 could also be the reality. Which, if it is, great, i'm happy for them that they are able to do well with her and have no issues with them at all. I'm not here to insult people's skill level.
What i'm hoping, is that i am wrong, and that it is actually 2. And that they have discovered something that is no widely known or shared among the community. Because if it is 2, then it means that we have all be playing her wrong, and can learn quite a bit from this person.
This is why i'm hoping for a video showcasing their matches. Preferably more than 1, as RNG weighs heavily in this game. Because i sincerely hope that the scenario that is happening here is "2" and that we can all learn something from this player.
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@NovaKane said:
Wow, I thought we had a new killer and anniversary to celebrate. Nope. Thanks to Wesker being brought back all we get us the Wesker anniversary instead. I've seen the new killer once and Wesker non stop. Fun.
Its almost like he is a really fun killer to play that is actually decent. Would you rather see blight and nurse every game instead?
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@Kirarozu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3461320#Comment_3461320
I don't do youtube videos but I also don't go for condemn kills. I rarely see anyone get condemned when I play sadako... I go for slow down and devour hope.
Ah, so you somehow have discovered some amazing way to play the killer that people who play this game for a job are not aware of that is effective and works that isn't the condemn build. But yet you have no way to actually prove your claims or show it off? How unfortunate. OBS is free to download and should only take a few minutes to setup and you can record your game for us. We would love to learn what we are all doing wrong with this killer.
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@Kirarozu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3461283#Comment_3461283
Without what build? You didn't list a build. I mean there are times the survivors will be better and there are times the map isn't great for Sadako... but most of the time I do pretty well on her.
The OP is talking about the iri tape addon, which generally goes with the condem build. Looking forward to your youtube videos showcasing your super skills!
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@MrMori said:
I've played around with who can gain the fastest and most consistent BP in the game for a long time now. Played countless killers, almost always run BP bonus perks only. Who can easily get hunter and deviousness, who has that rare Brutality bonus build into their power, who ends games fast. I've tested them all.
And I think I can say with confidence that Hux might just be the absolute best in the game at grinding BP. If you get a hit within 10 seconds of teleporting to a survivor, you get 300 bonus. But after they tweaked him, he no longer gets penalized down to 150 per hit anymore after a set amount of hits. This is an amazing change, and I'd really like to see such caps removed from older killers as well. Even if you have to slightly tweak their BP gain to make it happen.
He is really fast at starting chases, even against good survivors he has a power that lets you get hits at a reasonable pace. And thanks to his Brutality bonus, he is one of the few killers in the game who can consistently max this category out.
Note that you shouldn't play him in a campy, 3 genning manner if you want points. It's all chase. His power actually feels surprisingly great when you use it exclusively in chase. Much more fun this way.
Legion, it's always been legion. Doctor too, but not as good as legion. Legion basically gets a maxed out brutality and deviousness and chase almost guaranteed. You could never hook survivors and just chase them around and you'll get 30k every time.
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@Kirarozu said:
Did she get nerfed? Because I have had no problems getting 4Ks on her.
Sounds great, can you post your youtube videos showing how easy it is to get 4ks on her without this build? Would love to learn what i'm doing wrong with her. You think i'd know after 3k hours but its tough out there.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3460780#Comment_3460780
That spawn is possible, but a system where survivors always spawn in clusters is clearly a large buff to the perk. I don’t believe the perk is OP as it is now. But it would certainly be OP if survivors always spawned in a way that maximized its efficiency without any killer involvement.
So change the perk? The game shouldn't be balanced around a single perk.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3460841#Comment_3460841
Play whoever you want. I just don’t wanna verse the same killer over and over. 4 out of the 6 games I played today were Wesker, like why I gotta deal with that man that much?
Honestly? Because he is the most fun killer to play as and against that is actually decent. If it weren't for him you'd see blight and nurse every game instead.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Dbd matches have actually had variety this isn’t the Albert Wesker game he’s overplayed
Well lets see, here are all of the killers in the game:
- Trapper - Can't play him because traps are boring and hes too strong in basement
- Wraith - Can't play him because hit and run is boring
- Hillbilly - No complaints i have seen TBH
- Nurse - Can't play her because shes OP
- Myers - Can't play him because instadown with small terror radius is annoying, so is tomestone piece
- Hag - Can't play her because her power is the same as camping
- Doctor - Can't play him cuz i can't hide
- Huntress - Can't play her because she can wind up a hatchet and throw it in response to a vault, or let go of it and get an m1
- Leatherface - Can't play him because his power is boring (you predrop pallets)
- Freddy - Can't play him because teleporting to gens makes it so i can't do them and is boring
- Pig - Can't play her because traps are boring
- Clown - Can't play him because i have to predrop pallets and his gas is unfu n
- Spirit - Can't play her because shes OP
- Legion - Can't play him because mending is unfun
- Plague - Can't play her because i'm always injured
- Ghost Face - Can't play him because stealth instadown is boring
- Demogorgon - Can't play him because he can defend gens and totems with his teleport (yes i have seriously heard this)
- Oni - Can't play him because slugging is boring
- Deathslinger - Can't play him same reason as huntress
- Executioner - Can't play him because same reason as huntress and tunneling is boring
- Blight - Can't play him because hes OP
- Twins - Can't play them because slugging is boring
- Trickster - Haven't heard any complaints about him TBH
- Nemesis - Can't play him because same reason as huntress
- Cenobite - Can't play him because box is boring and chain hunts are strong
- Artist - Can't play her because same reason as huntress
- Onryo - Can't play her because slugging is boring
- Dredge - Can't play them because same reason as huntress
- Wesker - Can't play him because he is popular
- Knight - Can't play him because his power is boring to go against
- Skull Merchant - Can't play her because 3 genning and her power is boring
- Singularity - Can't play him because he is new so everyone is playing him.
So i guess the only killers i can play now are hillbilly and trickster?
I honestly feel at this point that survivors think every killer is boring if they use their power in any way and expect every kill to just be a 115% movement speed m1 killer that has no power. Because at this point that's almost the only thing left.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3460764#Comment_3460764
Talk about a massive buff for lethal pursuer.
Those types of spawns can happen now. So you think it would be better to keep lethal pursuer being OP based purely off of RNG? or do you think maybe they could make that change so it isn't RNG anymore, then adjust LP accordingly?
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@Coffeecrashing said:
It means the map is still way too cluttered, so they added fog to give the illusion that it's not as bad. So now killer get to deal with too much clutter AND survivors are more difficult to see because of the fog. So now the map is worse than it was before.
And we're supposed to have faith that BHVR cares about map balance, when they do this to us? If the map is too cluttered, the solution is to remove some of the clutter!
This is honestly how i interpreted it. The map is super cluttered, so we increased the fog so you can't see the clutter. It's still there of course, but you can't see it, so its not cluttered anymore.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3460594#Comment_3460594
Ranges in this game work off of a bubble around the thing
They actually work in cylinders, not bubbles, so it's technically worse than you're implying. So yes, multi levels would be problematic, but nothing you can't work around as the killer. When I'm 'not camping' as the killer, I'm not standing below them on a separate floor. If I do that, other survivors still hear my TR on the hooked survivor, and refuse to go for the save, and also my non-camping perks like Devour and Make Your Choice don't work.
However, the most recent chapter shows that they can limit area effects vertically too. So they may decide to implement a height limit.
I'm surprised they didn't just make hooks work like PH cages where if you are too near it, you get teleported to a different hook. Not saying that is a good option, but it is probably better than the proposed system.
That would make it impossible to camp, which is robbing the killer of agency. Camping is still a viable strategy.
Your MMR is showing then if you think that multi-floor won't be a problem when abused by SWF.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
For anti-camp, first we got base-kit BT. And devs confirmed there is anti-camp mechanic on the way as well.
Making camping less viable is good on my book, i appreciate devs for working on this.
Do you think same feature will happen for slugging and tunnelling as well or they will just leave them as they are? And bonus question, do you think we need something for slugging & tunnelling?
If you mean slugging for the 4k, sure. But slugging in general is the counter to flashlights and being downed near pallets and saves and such. There are also many perks in the game that are about that. So, i doubt that will change, nor should it. It is a different way of playing the game that isn't overpowered, so why would they change that?
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@Hexan said:
Hey so this is more a short report on some observation I have.
since COB and other gen regration perks have been nerf, having time to chasse is not really there. I have a hard time finding a combo of perks, that slow the trail well so I can afford to chasse. Also when the end game begin with 3-4 survivors left, well all killer players know what follows.
On the other hand playing survivor is easy, if all do the gens. But new players want to look around, they want too find stuff and being chasse by the killer or hide from him. Also perks that make gens work faster, is close to be a instan win button. But if you play solo team work is a street corner in Afrika, most of us have never seen or heard of it.
When people say the game is the most balanse it has ever been, I also think the game has come to a point where it feel more as work then anything else
What are you're thought's
The buff to pop has brought it back up to usefulness again, 30% of current progress on top of the 2.5% total progress in basekit makes it so to reach the old 25% pop the gen only needs to be at around 55-60% progress. Because of that i have been rolling around with a few different builds that works well on most killers:
- Gen Defense:
- Pop Goes the Weasel
- Scourge Hook: Pain Resonance
- Lethal Pursuer
- Scourge Hook: Floods of Rage
- General strategy is to use lethal to find a target quickly, and pain res a gen hopefully before it gets done, using lethal to get an idea of which gen it was. Then run to it and pop it. By the time that happens i have regressed that first or second gen a ton and can start the snowball from there, using floods of rage to help me in a chase
- Hex Build:
- Hex: Devour Hope
- Hex: Undying
- Hex: Pentimento
- Hex: Haunted Ground
- This is a build that i think scott jund has started using recently but i have used it for a while on more m1 killers and it leads to good success. Generally, if they don't cleanse totems, you get devour rolling and the game comes to a screeching halt when that happens. Or, if they start doing totems, they are likely to hit haunted ground, and if they do, the game again comes to a halt as they all start hiding. Once they start doing totems Pentimento slows the game down.
- Most games i find that i have 2-3 stacks of pentimento going and the game is slowed down so much that the survivors are basically forced off the gens to do the totems, of which there are many at this point, giving me time to get 2-3 hooks before they cleanse them all and swinging the game to my favor.
- If they proc haunted grounds on their first totem cleanse you have an opportunity to get a 5 stack pentimento which is amazing. So i'll try to hold off using pentimento until they get a few gens done to see if they cleanse them all. 5 stack pentimento with 2 gens up is basically a guaranteed win at that point.
- Slug Build:
- Knockout
- Jolt (Or another if using a killer that uses their power frequently)
- Infectious Fright
- Sloppy Butcher (or addon that gives it and swap for something else)
- I like to run this build if i get in the lobby and see like a ton of flashlights, so i know they are gonna go for a bunch of flashlight saves.
- The goal of this build is fairly obvious, you just slug everyone and never hook. Even if you might be tempted to, just never hook. Be prepared to get a lot of hate for running this. But it is actually quite effective. Sloppy slows the game down to a crawl as they try to pick each other up and heal (generally people try to heal up when they see slug builds) and infectious allows you to immediately start another chase if you can, OR if infectious DOESN'T go off, you can still use the information from that to find out where the survivors are, by eliminating where you know they aren't. So even if infectious doesn't go off, don't hook the survivor, go to where you know they must be based on that.
- Knockout makes it so it takes a while to find them and slows down their recovery, sloppy keeps everyone injured, and you'll be downing so many people that jolt will proc many many times on the same gens as people try to power through them and forgo healing once they realize sloppy is in the picture.
- I don't think the new slowdown perk that slows survivors is actually good on this build because it is too short of range to do anything about. The exhaustion one might be decent if only to deal with the new made for this perk, but in general i find jolt to work much better. I'd consider swapping Jolt for some more passive slowdown like deadlock if you are using a killer that uses their power a lot like wesker or something. Or thana if you are playing someone who can injure a lot, like legion or plague.
- Gen Defense:
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3460401#Comment_3460401
All of that will drastically extend the time it takes to camp someone out. It's never meant to prevent killers from executing player agency and choosing to camp, it simply makes it less profitable for them. Instead of standing there for a solid 120 seconds, you have two instances of 20+ second re-chases to get them back on the hook thrown into the mix. The time it takes to re-down and hook the survivor is extra time the rest can be slamming gens and escaping. That leads to more 1K campers than 2K+ campers, and thus leads to an overall average reduction in 5 gen camping prevalence.
And if you're not actually camping, then you have nothing to worry about. That's what the buffer zones, and the speed reduction from other present survivors is for.
Even if you aren't camping you will be punished. SWF will figure out how to do it, and it really depends on the numbers. But with multi-floor maps, you can have many situations where you aren't actually camping, but the game thinks you are, even though it would take you a solid 15-20 seconds to get to the hook because you have to walk all the way around. For example midwich has plenty of these areas and the floor is very thin. Ranges in this game work off of a bubble around the thing, not actual walking/pathing distance, so killers WILL be punished when they aren't camping and campers won't actually be punished because they are still gonna be able to do it.
I'm surprised they didn't just make hooks work like PH cages where if you are too near it, you get teleported to a different hook. Not saying that is a good option, but it is probably better than the proposed system.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3460257#Comment_3460257
Yes I'm sure those more survivor-sided will be disappointed that it doesn't completely prevent all forms of camping, but that's not the intention anyway. It will force killers to camp at a medium distance, which in most cases will provide survivors with openings to go for a save attempt, even if the killer makes it back for a hit once the save has been made, and that's the important thing.
Na, the new mechanic will not stop camping. You aren't gonna escape a bubba because he can 2 hit you with his saw when you unhook yourself. You aren't escaping a basement against a huntress, or a trapper who setup a perimeter around the basement.
All this mechanic will do, is not actually punish the campers, and just punish killers who are playing the game normally while SWF abuse the mechanic because this game wasn't designed around having coms and make the game more miserable for everyone. Because it won't actually do the job it is supposed to do.
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@Nebula said:
Probably the easiest killer / playstyle in the game and with the healing nerfs it just feels like an absolute chore to play against him.
Sloppy, bamboozle, shadow dance and boom you win 90% of your games.
I hate to sound like I’m just complaining but playing against Wraiths just always feel awful and the dude absolutely destroys solo queue teams.
Wow, 90%? Can you post some unedited videos of you winning 90% of your games?
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@Yourdeadcorps66 said:
Its been a game mechanic since day one if you could re use hooks after a survivor dies on them then how is that fair so you can just down everyone by the same hook wait for them to die and hook the next one. If thats the case lets make un hooking yourself 90% instead of 3% if your that bad as a killer dont play killer there are enough hooks on the map just choose what ones you use wisely.
It that scenario, the killer will just let them all bleed out for 4 minutes. I'd argue the game should just end at the point so people don't have to wait 4 minutes.
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@SweetTerror said:
So I'm curious, after 7 years why is it that hooks continue to disappear upon the death of a survivor? Without hooks killers can't do their objective, and without hooks it creates dead zones that allow survivors to escape over and over again. Killers have only a matter of seconds to get a survivor to a hook too, so you can't really tell them to be more strategic about what hook they use.
Seriously, why is this still a thing after all these years? Is there a logical reason why this gameplay mechanic continues to stay? Survivors can already use a variety of ways to save a survivor: flashlights, flashbangs, hook breaking, body blocks, etc, so do we really need to throw in deleted hooks on top of all of that?
I think honestly since it creates a potential for a stupid experience it should be removed. Survivors can get themselves into a position where they sit in a corner where a hook is gone and they become impossible to hook if they wiggle out. They run back to the corner, and then get downed at the corner and the cycle repeats. Thus creating a situation where the killer's only option is to either let the survivor go, or just wait out the 4 minute timer. Obviously this is no fun for anyone.
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@FreddysMixTape said:
Is skull merchant weak? According to NightLight she has the higest killrate(tho its just community stats). Speed in any form is very impactful, a year ago during our little cheating epidemic it was basically universally agreed that a cheater giving themselves a tiny bit more speed(3%) was game changing and incredibly strong/dare I say unfair.
Idk why with made for this its all of a sudden okay to be a thing. More importantly this is yet another perk that just punishes the weaker killers in the roster far more so than the stronger ones, this was a problem with DH too(which for some unholy reason can be combo'd with made for this to great effect btw). I understand the desire to want "strong" perks for the side you play more but by creating perks like this the meta suffers by narrowing down killer choices. Playing very m1 centric killers against 4 decent players running something like made for this + dh is miserable.
Nightlight is a 3rd party service, so there is no telling how that works out. But given the nature of the community, more people DC or intentionally hook suicide to get out of the match when playing against SM than say a trapper, so i wouldn't trust those numbers much.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
How is it that Skull Merchant, a killer with who it isn't uncommon to always have atleast one person on your radar and thus always having a 3% or more speedboost is considert a weak killer who's only option is to guard 3 gens cause her chase power is so abysmall while a 3% haste bonus for survivors turns them into uncatchable monsters?
That seems like a very odd contradiction. Is MfT overrated? Or is Skull Merchant underrated? What is the source of these mixed messages we are sending to the devs?
Lets put i this way.
- Average killer's movement speed is 4.6 m/s
- Survivors movement speed is 4.0 m/s
- The difference between them is 0.6/ m/s
Now, if a survivor gets a 3% movement speed buff, they will then move at 4.12 m/s. This makes the difference between the killer and survivor 0.48 m/s
If a killer gets a 3% movement speed buff, they will then move at 4.72 m/s (percentage movement effects go off base movement speed of 4.0 m/s) This makes the difference between them 0.72 m/s.
Now, if we have a hypothetical killer chase an injured survivor starting at 32 meters, and pretend they run in an infinite straight line with these movement speed differences, how long will it take the killer to catch this survivor?
0.6 m/s - 43.3 seconds
0.48 m/s - 54.16 seconds
0.72 m/s - 36.1 seconds
The 3% movement speed on the killer saves 7 seconds, but on the survivor it saves 11 seconds. This is due to the nature of how the DIFFERENCES in movement speed work out. Which is far more important than the absolute movement speed between the two. Movement speed stacks in a diminishing way with itself, such that, every 1% extra movement speed gained, is weaker than the previous 1% movement speed gained. And since killers start out at 115%, 3% movement speed is weaker than a survivor that starts out at 100%.
Now, this is actually the WORST case scenario and still favors the survivor. The big thing to keep in mind is in the terms of looping. Because the hitbox of a survivor is actually much smaller than that of a killer, they can run loops tighter than them, so they actually REDUCE the difference in movement speed more when they loop tightly.
I don't actually know what this difference is, because the sizes of the exact hitboxes aren't known (as far as i know, but if someone has them, please let me know and we can do the math on them.)
But anyway, because of these hitbox sizes, the difference in movement speed while staying the same, the survivors have to travel less distance around a loop than a killer does. Thinking like a circular racetrack
I threw this together in paint so it isn't exact, but imagine these are perfect circles:
Blue is the survivor
Red is the killer
Black is a rock.
In order to go around the rock, the survivor has to travel less distance than the killer because their hitbox is smaller. So if you increase a survivors movement speed by 3% in this case, it is a big big difference, whereas if you are increasing the killer's movement speed by 3%, it doesn't make as big of a difference because they still have to loop around it in a "longer" path because of the size of their hitbox.
Really look at the difference between a 110% killer like huntress and a 115% killer like trapper. Average size of a map is around 10k meters squared. So if we take that as a perfect square the map is 100 x 100 meters. So traveling in a straight line from one end of the map to the other is 100 meters, how long does it take each killer to travel that distance?
Huntress = 22.7 seconds
Trapper = 21.7 seconds
Not much of a difference right? Because the difference in movement speeds between these 2 killers isn't actually that significant. But try looping a survivor around a tight rock as huntress, and then again as trapper (not using their powers) and see how much longer it takes you to hit the survivor as the huntress than the trapper.
Now for fun, lets look at these different movement speeds and how long it takes them to run in a straight line of 100 meters.
110% (huntress) = 22.7
115% (trapper) = 21.7 seconds
118% (SM with 1 stack) = 21.18 seconds
100% (survivor) = 25 seconds
103% (made for this) = 24.27 seconds
You can see there that the difference between the trapper and SM (where SM is 3% faster) is .52 seconds, around half a second. Whereas the difference between the base survivor and one with made for this is 0.73 seconds. We can conclude that the 3% from made for this for a survivor is actually around 40% more powerful than the 3% gained by skull merchant. Again, this is because the multiplicative nature of the movement speeds makes it so the 1% gained at 101% movement speed, is actually more impactful than 1% gained at say, 151% if the killer was moving at 150%. Each 1% is weaker than the last.
So, to conclude, to compare skull merchants movement gains to made for this, skull merchant actually needs 4.25% movement speed to be around as powerful as made for this. And again, this only factors in that straight line, not factoring in looping around a rock/hitboxes. Which i think would make it significantly more. Again, if someone has the numbers for the hitbox sizes we could calculate this out, and it would be an interesting exercise. But anecdotally. I'd say you would probably need around 7.5% more movement speed to make up that looping difference. Because PWYF doesn't feel like it does at 1 stack, but it does at 2 stacks. But again, that is just based on feelings and not actual math.
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@MoriMeMrMyers said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3459580#Comment_3459580
Thanks for the response! I've seen looping and stuff, but found hiding and waiting for the bear trapper to leave was better, right? Seeing pallets is gonna be super useful, thanks!
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3459623#Comment_3459623
I've met more than a few of my team mates as we hid by the corner safe spots killers never look, they always heal themselves, but it takes so long when I'm right there -_-
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3459627#Comment_3459627
At my MMR/rank whatever, our hunters are also just as good. Good meaning so far 2 have hit hooked survivors, I asked why and they said "to kill them faster", which I don't think is true
It used to kill them faster a long long long time ago, but it hasn't been the case for a long time. It's just trolling and camping, which many players don't like, but tends to be extremely strong at lower levels because it is hard to deal with.
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@MoriMeMrMyers said:
Started the game new a week or so ago, and learned pallets used to give invincibility when dropping them
With all the buffs killers had to base break speed and chase perks like spirit breaking (?) wouldn't it make sense to make pallets better with it?
I'm not saying the chase killers are OP, but besides windows I keep running out of pallets
Every pallet drop that the killer breaks adds around 18 seconds to a chase, unless you are literally sitting right next to the pallet and watch the killer start the break animation. A minimum chase time just holding w, should be around 55 seconds if you don't factor in loops/pallets/windows/perks or the killer power. All you have to do, is force the killer to break 2 pallets, and your 3 other teammates should have finished 3 gens.
The real problem is likely that your teammates are just not doing the generators which is the case for newer players. When i first started playing as survivor years ago (back when survivors were actually much stronger than they are now) i was lucky if me and my friends on coms got a single gen done before one of us was killed.
As time goes on, and you get better, you'll start to be much better at looping killers and having teammates that completely objectives.
Additionally, you'll learn that all pallets are not created equal. There are some pallets that are far stronger that are generally referred to as "god pallets" that the killer MUST break in order to resume chase. Then you have strong pallets that the killer MUST break to resume chase if the survivor is decent at the game. Then you have your "ok" pallets where mindgames can be had and good killers will be able to trick you and land a hit without breaking, and you have your trash pallets that, if you didn't stun the killer, you are probably gonna get hit.
Overtime you'll learn the differences in these pallets and which ones you should just drop immediately, and which ones you should save for as long as possible and how to properly use all of the resources. You'll learn when you should just predrop pallets and when you should save them, and how to bait killers into thinking you'll do one thing but you'll do another. Or how to properly loop killer shack and such.
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@BabyCameron10 said:
For some reason me and my teammates went down when the killer was in frenzy. Keep in mind the Legion was able to down people even without reaching the 5 required frenzy hits.
Am I missing something?
@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/379259/is-the-legion-broken
I'll test it out in a custom game right now.
Nope, legion is normal, its also not 5, its 4, and the 5th hit downs. Are you sure you counted right?
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@BabyCameron10 said:
For some reason me and my teammates went down when the killer was in frenzy. Keep in mind the Legion was able to down people even without reaching the 5 required frenzy hits.
Am I missing something?
I'll test it out in a custom game right now.
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@not_Queef said:
They should really give him a few weeks for people to learn how to play him / against him.
I've already seen a few Singularities that are very oppressive against fairly decent survivors.
My concern is that they will overbuff him, realise how strong he has become and then give him a bunch of cooldowns that ruin the fluidity of his gameplay.
Then they can nerf him a bit if they overbuff him, at this point they are probably just going to do number tweaks. Also people are both learning how to play as him and against him, and will increase at the same rate. So just because people aren't as good at him now doesn't mean anything, because when they get better, survivors will get better at countering it.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
Just a thought.
The idea of power specific cosmetics has been tossed around, but I feel like it has really been heavily neglected as an idea.
Imagine if you could change the way Hillbilly's chainsaw looked?
Imagine if you could change the way Artist's Dire Crows looked?
Imagine if you could have a different contrail effect for Nurse's Blinks?
All of these things would be some really cool things to see ingame, and provide players with more ways to make themselves feel unique. And for certain Killers, like Billy, where you mostly have your power out, it can feel more worth buying than actual weapon skins.
i could see these affecting gameplay a bit too much, but it would depend on the killer. I suspect we'll be seeing cosmetic mori animations at some point in the future though.
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@BlueRose said:
This is night two of playing singularity and I'm still having a really rough time of it. Usually I don't ask these types of questions since all the other killers I picked up fairly well and understood them after a night of playing but this guy has been a pain to get better at. I can't end chases, pressure anyone, infect anyone, the ones I do infect jump EMP it off before I can do anything and over all just doing really badly at him. Meanwhile I watch otz and other streamers play him and they seem to dominate as him and I honestly don't know what they doing that I'm not.
So I'm open to tips and build suggestions so I at least have a better time playing him. If this continues tho this be the first chapter I would ever regret buying bc I can't play the killer at all.
Been trying a full slug build, and he seems to be great at it:
- Infectious Fright
- Knock Out
- Sloppy Butcher
- Genetic Limits (not hesitation)
I find that the slowdown perk is more for tunneling than slugging. Because 16 meters is super short so it isn't really helping there. But Genetic limits makes it so they are just always exhausted. They'll try to heal with sloppy and pick each other up, but when they do, they get exhausted. This counters the new perk made for this, and makes it so i don't have to really deal with any exhaustion perks. Just down someone, go after the infectious, or if it doesn't fire, you know the general area they might be, and you just run off over there, putting pods up in the trees and putting a few by the person you slugged. Periodically checking when you get a second. Additionally, if you slug them they don't lose the slipstream, so they end up spreading it to each other.
Prepare for salt though if you run it.
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@Mandy said:
Thanks for the suggestions here, we do have a few changes for the EMP's in particular ready for an upcoming hotfix. We'll be looking at reducing the EMP crates themselves to 4 per map, the generation time increased to 100s (currently 90s), and Survivors will also be slowed whilst charging an EMP by 10% as well as increasing the EMP charge time itself to 2.5s from the current 2s.
Duration of the pod disabling from an EMP will also be decreased down to 45s. There's also some score changes as we noticed Devious points were a little on the low side.
How do those sound?
I think you should keep EMPs strong, reducing movement speed by 10% isn't really enough and even then it weakens them in chase when the killer's chase power is actually quite strong, the problem is how plentiful they are and that survivors can just grab them mid chase. What if you did this:
- Boxes no longer charge fully by themselves, they stop at 75%
- Survivors now speed up the process by 2.5x instead of 4x.
- Survivors see the aura of the boxes all the time and/or highlight only the ones at 75% (but in yellow if you let them see box so they know the difference between one that is close and one that is still charging up)
- Consider increasing the duration of the EMP on the biopods to deal with 3-genning now that the EMPs are more rare.
- Consider increasing boxes to 6.
This makes it so survivors have to spend 9 seconds opening a box at 75% to get an EMP. Now you can keep them super strong, but they are less available. It also allows survivors to spend a bunch of time making a bunch of EMPs if they want, you might find strategies where someone is dedicated to just making EMPs for everyone. Or you'll find that survivors can make a choice, "do i keep working on gens and forgo the EMP, or do i stop working the gen to get an EMP".
It also gives the killer some built in gen defense similar to wesker/nemesis/skull merchant by forcing survivors to make a choice where they either weaken the killer, but spend less time on gens, or they power through gens and get them done faster, but now the killer is more deadly.
You could tweak the numbers, but generally, survivors should have to make a choice whether to get an EMP, right now, there is no choice, they can just always have one.
While you are at it, can you remove the slowdown the killer gets when using their power near a hooked survivor? Keep it so that you can't attack to deal with the camping threat, but it feels bad for me to hook a survivor, then look through cameras to find my next target specifically to NOT camp/tunnel, and them i'm punished for doing that.
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@Aurelle said:
Just dropping my ideas/suggestions for a way to fix EMPS.
- If a survivor fully charges an EMP and a Biopod or infected survivor isn't detected within 3 seconds, the EMP will disintegrate. When an EMP is disintegrated, survivors would have to grab a new EMP.
- Accelerating printing causes the Oblivious status effect.
- Once an EMP is done printing automatically, survivors will have to open the EMP chest (Would take 3-4 seconds). Opening an EMP chest and leaving the EMP inside will cause the chest to close after a certain amount of time. If a chest closes, survivors would have to reopen it. (So similar to Wesker and Nemesis's healing spray/vaccine chests)
Either:
A) Survivors can no longer use the EMP while running, they are forced to walk while using it, so it can no longer be used in a chase, this might make the killer's chase ability too strong though and might need further tweaks and i think is probably not the right answer, but its an easy option.
B) Change the box to the following:
- Box automatically charges in 90 seconds
- Survivors can speed this up by 2.5x (down from 4x) for a total time of 36 seconds from a completely empty box.
- Box now charges automatically up to 75% (down from 100%)
- Survivors see the auras of the boxes even if they aren't done printing, boxes that are at 75% are highlighted in yellow instead.
This makes it so they are no longer automatically available and survivors need to work a box to collect one. The last 25% takes 9 seconds for a survivor to do. So in order to collect an EMP, the fastest they can is by spending 9 seconds working the box.
It makes it so they can't just grab one mid chase, but they can stay being "OP" in the sense that they are really strong against him, just harder to get. And it gives him some built in map pressure similar to Wesker where survivors now have to spend time not on gens in order to avoid his power, or they can ignore it and power through the gens, giving them a choice on what to do and creating more opportunities for strategies.