Reinami
Reinami
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- Reinami
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@Droneinthrwind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3445440#Comment_3445440
It feels like this forum players faces nothing but swf bully squads.
I play 70:30 survivor to killer and literally faced bully squads twice. One was head on squad which was a bit annoying but they didn't do gens so it was 4k at 5 gens. Another was flashy squad but I was plague so I just camped one guy with corrupt while everyone was injured and it was easy game afterwards.
While as survivor every second game is blight and nurse or wesker. Half the cast of killers I haven't seen in weeks.
I get one every couple of games unless i play nurse where that's pretty much all i get (probably because i win most games with her).
But lets say i play trapper. I'll play a game, get a SWF bully squad, clicky clicky, teabags, the like. Probably a map offering to like the game, or a farm map or garden of joy. I'll get maybe a few hooks, maybe get a kill if i get lucky and camp.
Next game, its 4 babies that immediately kill themselves on hook as soon as they step in a trap and i hook them
repeat.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3445433#Comment_3445433
Survivors dont want to be tunneled because its not fun. On the other hand, survivors are also deserved to have 40% escape chance.
Not getting tunneled doesnt mean killers should get 4K every single match in return.
To your ideal, you want to 10 hooks, but still 4K, than 4 hooks 4K. Is that correct? You want the 4K.
Everyone wants to win. What the hell are you getting at? I'm saying that they should balance the game so that the way to win for both sides is the most fun for everyone. Rather than the current state where it is the least fun for everyone involved.
At this point though, you are either completely lost, or being intentionally obtuse. So i'm about to just block you and move on from the conversation.
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@Droneinthrwind said:
Honest question. Do you actually enjoy winning every game with 5 gens still remaining and absolutely no resistance?
I mean I get it after few bad matches switching to nurse and having few easy games but winning 500 matches in a row without any resistance? I would think it would get boring after a while?
I ask the same thing of the SWF who use coms on discord to bully be and teabag me when i decide to have a little fun with trapper and they tell me i'm trash, should kill myself and then say a bunch of really racist stuff.
And you ask why i want to play nurse?
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3445060#Comment_3445060
meaning they don't have to tunnel someone out to win.
So its about the game should be easier for 4K?
If you're a decent killer, you should only win against a team that worse than you, or a decent team like you but try less hard. If the decent team try as hard as you, they're deserved to have 2 escape.
People keep saying "try to 4K against a good team". Come on, a good team with 0 escape sound more wrong than a good killer with 2K.
The only thing I can think of is to give tunneling no benefit. No matter if you 8 hooks before kill or tunneling one out early, the chance to get kills dont change. Which is 4 survivors should be heavily nerfed, while 3 survivors heavily buffed. Aim for 8 hooks before kill to keep debuff on survivors.
Are you being deliberately obtuse?
This thread is about tunneling. Survivors do not like to be tunneled. If you spend 30 seconds browsing this forum that will become obvious. I'm saying that tunneling should not be possible and should be removed from the game because it is boring for the survivors to be tunneled, and camped for that matter. And the game should be balanced around winning being about getting lots of hooks, not getting lots of kills, because then the game would be more fun for everyone involved.
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@Sylhiri said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3445060#Comment_3445060
The biggest issue with tunneling is how easy it is for a massive benefit. How would you punish tunneling enough to offset the payout of a huge upfront advantage?
On the survivor side it's very easy to fix the gen speed problem which can be done with numerical changes, not so with tunneling.
I personally would change this. I'm not sure if it would work fully, but it would need to be tested on similar to how they did the basekit unbreakable. But i believe the following change would fix the issue of both tunneling AND camping in one fell swoop. I have another idea as well that would work just as well if they don't want to do this.
OPTION 1:
- Remove the ability to intentionally unalive yourself on the hook and 4%, rework luck as a mechanic, or remove it and rework the perks/items that deal with it, deliverance can stay as is, as it isn't a luck or random RNG based mechanic, it might need to get nerfed a bit with the next changes though, but we'll see.
- Survivors now share 4 hook states, and get 2 individual hook states.
- This means that if you hook survivor 1, you get 1 hook. But if you hook survivor 1 again, you get a second hook, but that survivor isn't closer to being out of the game.
- In order to remove a survivor from the game, you'll have to do 6 hooks before it can happen.
- Hook state timer stay the same, the shared hooks don't have the 2nd stage mechanic, but the survivor's own hook state does.
- Deliverance probably needs to be changed to only being usable once per trial.
This would completely destroy camping, because in order to camp that survivor out of the game, you'd need to wait for 6 hook states, which takes 6 minutes, as opposed to waiting only 3, which takes 3 minutes. During that 6 minute window, the other 3 survivors would easily complete 5 gens, open the gates, and leave, or if they wanted to, try and do a save on the hooked survivor.
This also completely destroys tunneling, because if you are tunneling the same guy off the hook over and over again, you'll still have to down and hook him 6 times. At minimum, each of these chases is going to take you a solid 15-20 seconds because of the basekit BT. Add in the time it takes to pick them up, walk to a hook, the hook animation. And you are looking at 30 seconds+ per tunneled hook. Again, this is going to take you a solid 3 minutes in order to tunnel even the worst players out of the game.
Additionally, since hook states are shared, the survivors are less pressured to try and go for the unhook right away. So the combined mechanic tunneling and camping/proxy camping, because in order to hard tunnel you generally have to at least proxy camp. This becomes highly diminished as well.
Survivors also now are more of a team rather than single entities who happen to be working together. You'll want to help your teammates out more because some hooks are shared. This also makes it so you still get 2 individual hook states. Meaning if someone on your team is really bad, and they go down super quick, you aren't heavily punished for it, you'll simply lose 1 of your 3 chances, but you still get 2 of your own chances.
This also nerfs camping in a way that isn't as complicated and convoluted the same way that their proposed future mechanic is. This is simple and easy to understand, rather than having to figure out how far something is, or adding some kind of extra bar/mechanic that complicates the game.
OPTION 2:
If they just want to address tunneling, and then address camping as a separate issue, they could do something like this instead.
- Remove basekit BT (just hold on a minute)
- Create a new mechanic called Ethereal (or w/e, will explain shortly what it does)
- When a survivor is unhooked, they gain the "Ethereal" status effect.
- The Ethereal status effect does the following:
- The survivor with ethereal is "phased out" think like spirit's power.
- They cannot be seen
- They cannot be heard
- They make no scratch marks
- They have no collision
- They move at 150% movement speed.
- They see the aura of all other survivors
- All other survivors see their aura (probably make it a special color that isn't just yellow, like white or something)
- They probably have some kind of screen effect that makes them look like a ghost, and the screen is all grayscaleish or something
- Lasts for 30 seconds and CANNOT be cancelled early.
- During this time you cannot do any action.
- Other survivors CAN heal you.
- You cannot heal other survivors or yourself
- You cannot repair gens
- You cannot do totems
- etc.
Generally what this means is, when you get unhooked, you get put on "time out" but during this timeout, you should be able to run to any part of the map that you want, the killer won't know where you went, and you can see your team. The effect lasts 30 seconds, to discourage the tunneling, and give plenty of time to get to safety, wherever that me be. Additionally, because you are on "time out" the killer knows you can't be on gens, or otherwise doing something useful. So for 30 seconds, they don't have to worry about you. This encourages them to spread pressure, because tunneling you will be very hard, and they know that they slowed the gens down by at least 25% for the next 30 seconds.
Generally when you are unhooked, your goal will be to run away from wherever the killer is, and to a teammate that the killer is not going for, so that they can heal you. Additionally you can see the aura of teammates, and they can see you, so that they know that you are coming to them, and they know they should play it a bit safe so they can heal you.
30 seconds is plenty of time to get to safety and prevent the tunneling.
This doesn't do much for facecamping, but it will nerf proxy camping because proxy camping usually is more a proxy camp+tunnel rather than just a hard proxy camp.
With either of these mechanics, heavy testing will need to be done likely to rebalance the game, perhaps by changing gen repair speeds again, or tweaking killer basekit numbers again. But you get the general idea. Remove tunneling and camping as an option so it isn't even possible and then rebalance the game around that so that killers like trapper can actually stand a chance.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3444960#Comment_3444960
So its just about not losing, which is...getting kill?
The reward for getting kill is the feeling of winning? Then why would you like the game to make hooks give you the feeling to win (reward)?
I mean, you can either 4hooks 4K or 12hooks 4K, as long as it 4K, hooks dont matter.
This thread is about tunneling, survivors generally don't like that. So what i'm saying is, the devs should make it so that killers are encouraged to spread pressure around, meaning they don't have to tunnel someone out to win. Simultaneously, tunneling should be nerfed even further than it is now. Thus making it so these killers can be rewarded for spreading pressure, and punished for tunneling. Then the survivors will have a better time.
The problem with this game is that the most effective way for killers to win, is also the most boring to play against. Similarly, the most effective way for survivors to win, is also the most boring for killers to play against. I'm saying the game should not encourage the most boring way to play the game in order to win, and we should instead be encouraging both sides to play in more fun and interesting ways that will also lead to winning.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3443858#Comment_3443858
What reward do you get from getting more kill? Please tell.
if you aren't playing nurse or blight, you HAVE to get a survivor out of the game as fast as possible or you are going to lose against any decent survivor team. That is just the reality of the current state of the game.
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@Adaez said:
A lot of my games, the gens seem to go faster than they should, even when I run full stacked on gen regression, it really suck when there are cheaters that boost their gen repair speeds and there is no way to prove it.
@Shroompy said:
I highly doubt its "a lot" of your games
EAC is a joke of an anti-cheat software and doesn't do anything in any game. They generally need to rely on reports with video evidence. And the average player is going to notice if a survivor does a gen 10% faster, or they just always 2-3% faster all the time. But when you have put thousands of hours into the game, and you notice that every time you round a corner while chasing that survivor they always seem like they are JUST a bit further than they should be. Or that a killer is regression gens just a BIT more than you think they should.
Because you don't get a view of what everyone is doing all the time, it is hard to tell.
It isn't a coincidence, and i would imagine it is more prevalent than people realize.
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@Jejune said:
It's not gen rushing because you can (attempt to) do something. You can't do anything on the hook and dead zone.
I like to think of it as survivors "tunneling" gens. Basically, do they ignore everything else in order to go for the gen. I.E. Leaving their teammates on hooks, not healing each other, not cleansing totems, doing gens right in my face because i'm doing something else like hooking a survivor nearby.
What's funny is these scenarios often lead to tunneling and camping being a very effective strategy for the killer. Then they complain that the killer did that. Pretty funny TBH.
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@Timmylaw said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3443858#Comment_3443858
Those were two different sentiments, give killers a reason to not tunnel by making it worthwhile, and then buff ds so it's never an issue for the people who go out of their way for the sole reason of being a troll and ruining one person's match.
Making it a perk is not the solution. Its a band-aid. Perks should not be required. It should be impossible due to base game mechanics.
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@Timmylaw said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3443793#Comment_3443793
Personally, I want bhvr to make spreading hooks worthwhile. Give killers a reason not to tunnel.
I think ds should also go back to 5 seconds but keep the new restrictions on it so it can't be used in end game and it only works when being tunneled.
Before it's nerf, the mere existence of DS prevented a lot of tunneling.
So give incentives to killers, by rebuffing a perk that makes it so every survivor runs it, recreating the meta they tried to get away from?
How about, give incentives to killers by balancing the game around hooks instead of kills and rewarding hooks.
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@MasterGS32 said:
I would really love a response from a dev on this one. Since they killed the 3-gen meta, a single playstyle has become more prevalent than ever. And it's killing the game. You are going to address face camping, which is great. But when are you going to address tunneling? The base kit bt is not enough, off the record is not enough. Nothing is enough right now in the face of a killer that is brainlessly tunneling a survivor at 5 whole gens. I play both killer and survivor equally I would say and while i am playing killer, especially my main, artist, i manage to get wins without tunneling and i try to do that knowing how frustrating it is to face. On the other hand, as a survivor player i have not escaped a single trial in the last 2 weeks. I swear to god, i have all my trials records from the past 2 weeks, cause i wanted to keep them and see what's going on with tunneling so i can come up with this post. Tunneling is a problem. 40% escape chance was the desired ratio right? Well, during my last 2 weeks i have not escaped once thanks to tunneling. Each and every match, i got yet again against another killer that's set his mind to tunnel from second 1, either me or my teammates, and they even have the builds to support it, so i never get the chance toe scape cause by the time we finish the 1st gen, there's only 3 survivors left. They won't stop tunneling even if you give them downs, they won't stop for anything. They are just tunneling against and again and again. And i am so tired of this. I love the game and it's concept, but i cannot keep playing in the hopes that some day i will finally get to escape. I also want to be able to win some trials and when i lose i wanna know the reason i lost so i can get better. *Right now the reason i lose is because the killer decides to turn their brain off and mindlessly get an easy w by tunneling. And the worst thing? THERE IS LITERALLY NOTHING I CAN DO TO STOP IT. Solo queue is already a nightmare and all this tunneling just makes it even worse, cause even if I manage to get a 3gen chase, after I go on the hook and I get off of it I just get tunneled like I never even had a chance. So yeah, that's my rant. Tunneling is the biggest problem in solo queue right now. And I guess my question at the end of the day is: Are the devs gonna do something about it? are they gonna give us a chance to once in a while escape a trial while solo-queueing? or do I just leave the game now and i exempt myself from even more pain and frustration? Cause the actual state of the game and of tunneling is no it. It's just horrible and yet no one seems to be talking about it, so i thought i did.
So what exactly should killers do at this point then?
1. Camping is the most boring thing
2. Ruin+Undying is the most boring thing
3. Slugging is the most boring
4. Anti-loop killers are the most boring
5. Tunneling is the most boring thing
6. 3-gens are the most boring
7. Hit and run is the most boring <----------------- you are here.
8. Killers Pressuring gens is boring
9. Anti-Healing is boring
10. Killers even playing the game is boring
Meanwhile:
JUST PRESSURE GENS KILLERS.
Exactly what kind of "play style" should killers do, that is a viable way to win, that isn't boring to you? Because at this point, it seems the only acceptable way to play as killer is to:
- Play a standard m1 killer
- Pick a single survivor, and chase only them, making sure to never use your power.
- Don't use any perks
- Once you down and hook that survivor, you need to immediately start running to the survivor that is the absolute furthest away from the hooked survivor.
- Then you repeat.
- But make sure after you hook the second survivor, that the 3rd survivor you chase, is not the one that saved the unhooked person (they might still be healing) but the 4th guy who has only been on gens.
- Repeat, making sure you do them in order, so nobody is eliminated from the game. Then if you actually make it to endgame, you can't camp the hook during endgame, you have to open the exit gates
- Then you have to let the other survivors save and body block, so all 4 escape, and then you have to let them teabbag you at the gate, you can't just run to the other end of the map and stare at a wall. You have to make sure you specifically WATCH them teabag.
- Also don't hit them to force them out, you need to let them teabag you for the full 2 minute timer.
- Also make sure you say: "man i suck really bad" and agree with them when they say "gg baby killer ez"
At some point, i think you need to examine yourself, and decide what it is you really want out of this game. Because there i so much conflicting information about what survivors want from:
- You need to chase more people
- You need to chase less
- Let us do gens
- Stop camping hooks
- Stop camping gens
- Stop proxy camping
- Don't defend hex totems (yes i heard this once)
- Pressure gens better
- Don't tunnel
- Camping in endgame is boring
- GG EZ killer couldn't get kills
Like for real, what the actual ######### do you want?
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@Witchubtet said:
The current survivor strategy is to 99.9% a gate so they can get a save, and that’s okay like 50% of the time. But the only true way to stop that strategy is to run No away Out.
How would you all think of a regression system based off of how many Survivors are alive during the end game?
4 = full regression. 99->0 over double the time required to open. (About 40 or so seconds and this doesn’t mean it takes longer this is how long it takes for it to reach 0)
3 = Some Regression 99->50
2 = a Small dose of Regression 99 -> 80
1 = No regression at all.
It just makes sure in a 4 man someone is manning the door at all times or forced to throw the switch to escape if the killer gets close. While not fully punishing the smaller groups of survivors.
I
@Pulsar said:
99'ing doors hurts more than it helps a lot of the time.
Can't tell you how often I've gotten a kill because they didn't open the Gates. It's not actually that often, because most games don't get to EGC, but you get it.
They should implement something. I think that the fact that survivors 99 the gates, is precisely why the stats get so skewed. Imagine a game where the killer got 1 hook all game, the last gen is done, and then they down a second person and hook them. Now the survivors 99 the gates, and then they trade hooks constantly until they get themselves to the gate. Maybe even the killer gets a kill because of it. This makes it so the killer lets say gets a kill.
Now, should this game be recorded as the killer getting 1 hook, or the killer getting 7 hooks and a kill? The only reason they got those hooks is because the survivors let it happen. This could end up inflating the numbers so that it looks like killers are doing better than they are. It also means that killers who didn't "earn it" can often get a ton of hooks while survivors throw themselves at it and trade hooks to try and get 4 out.
Personally i think that the EGC should be extended to default, maybe 4 minutes, but starts as soon as the last gen is completed. This should be more than enough time, given perks like NWO and even bloodwarden, to still give you a ton of time, even if you play a full endgame build around this.
This would basically force survivors to just get out rather than play this silly game where they make you watch them open the gate and teabag so they can be toxic. Or to prevent inflating killer numbers to stupid levels because survivors decided they want to.
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@BOSpectre said:
I know that this sounds childish, but I really hate it when survivors stand at the gates waiting for the killer, just to get downed straight into an escape. I know that you won, but I don’t see a need for you to waste the killer’s time. I just say gg and move on, but apparently many people don’t have that same mentality. So I propose an idea to make survivors think twice before taunting the killer at the gates. I think that if you make it so when you down a survivor, the gates are blocked for that survivor for a few seconds, allowing the killer to pick them up and take them to a hook. This could prevent bming at the gates and instead actually make games go by a lot faster, but it’s just a thought.
Just make the EGC timer go FASTER for each survivor sitting inside the exit area. Makes it so they can't just sit in there and heal each other and try and go for saves, they have to actually put themselves in danger. And it solves the problem because if they are hanging out in the gate, the timer will go faster forcing them to just leave sooner. Maybe like 50% faster per survivor? So EGC would take:
1 survivor: 80 seconds
2 survivors: 60 seconds
3 survivors: 48 seconds
4 survivors: 40 seconds
This would only apply if they are sitting in the zone. Maybe even make it so it takes a second or 2 for it to take effect so they can just run straight out without a penalty.
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@mikewelk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3443475#Comment_3443475
Thanks for all the information, it's genuinely interesting. I mained Blight at the time so I just needed to rush past them to bait it for a free down on the next rush. This is exactly why I wanted other people's experiences because it helps me understand what was wrong with it instead of just assuming people couldn't bait it properly like I could. Having numbers display the differences between thee two perks is really informative. People assuming I never played during that time or that I begged for it to be nerfed just to want it back really aren't helping. Thank you. :)
And hearin lies the problem. Basically nurse and blight didn't care anyway. These 2 killers should basically be ignored when looking at balance concerns affecting killers as a whole because they don't play by the same rules as everyone else.
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@mikewelk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3443445#Comment_3443445
Dead hard was really easy to bait though. Sprint Burst is guaranteed to work but dead hard can just be a waste of a perk slot if you go against a experienced killer that assumes everyone has it and knows how to bait it. Survivors staring back at you was an obvious sign they had it.
Dead hard was not easy to bait. It created stupid scenarios where you are close enough to hit the survivor, and you both do this stupid dance where the big hulking mean killer is afraid to swing. It also made it almost impossible to lunge, because you could e on reaction to the lunge. Meaning the distance to hit became 2 meters instead of 6 meters, which gaining 0.6 meters of distance, would extend every single chase by 2.4 seconds at minimum, but then you had to delay a second or 2 to do this stupid dance. Which means that it would delay chases nearly as much as sprint burst is doing just by existing.
Because of this extra free distance and lunging being impossible, it allowed survivors to get to pallets and windows much easier, because you couldn't lunge so they had more chances to use it. Basically NOT using it, was nearly as powerful as using it.
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@mikewelk said:
I just had a SWF game where they sat on gens and whenever I got near they just sprint bursted away to a safe loop. There's literally no counter to it. Dead hard was so easy to bait with just a camera flick or simply waiting it out. Am I the only one who thinks this? It saves you from getting hit (extending your chase time), makes the killer miss their lunge attack (from surprise) which gives survivors extra time to hold W, and gets survivors to a safe loop from a deadzone.
I'm not saying it needs a nerf, I was just curious on people's opinion on it.
@Shroompy said:
Ive always prefered DH over Sprint Burst since its much more interactive.
Just waiting for people to realize just how strong SB really is
Old dead hard was the most powerful perk in the game, for both sides, bar none. It had the ability to extend a chase to the point that you can lose the game immediately if landed at a good time. Even if you only landed it 50% of the time, it could easily add 20+ seconds to a single chase, almost guaranteeing that the killer will lose 3 gens to the other survivors if they continue to do the chase.
Sprint burst is overrated and nowhere near as powerful as people think it is, just look at the math behind it. Lets assume there is an injured survivor 32 meters away from the killer and they immediately start running. Lets look at 2 scenarios, one WITH sprint burst, and one without.
WITHOUT Sprint burst:
Survivor starts running at 32 meters. Killer gains 0.6 meters of distance. They need to close a gap of 26 meters to land a hit. This means it will take them (excluding bloodlust because i can't find consistent information about how far a chase starts exactly). 43.3 seconds to down the survivor.
WITH Sprint burst:
Survivor starts running at 32 meters, but for 3 seconds, they run at 6 m/s instead of 4. This means they GAIN 1.4 meters of distance per second for those 3 seconds on the killer, meaning now the killer needs to close a gap of 26 + (1.4 x 3) = 30.2 meters of distance. Gaining 0.6 per second, this takes the killer 50.3 seconds for the killer to catch the survivor.
The strength of sprint burst is not in the "hold w" because it adds 7 seconds to the chase. Where it is strong is when survivors use it to hang around a dead zone, then during those 3 seconds, they run to a safer area. Which doesn't really add a huge amount to the chase, all it does is make the chase more standard rather than free as it would be in a dead zone. Additionally, because this chase extension happens RIGHT at the start of a chase, the killer can make a more informed and useful decision to continue the chase or to abandon and go after someone else. It is also easier to bait once you know the survivor has it than dead hard is. Sure, you can 99 the sprint burst, but then you can't do ANYTHING, a gen, stop and heal a survivor, you can't even fall from a high place, or you aren't 99'ing it anymore.
Lithe is actually better than sprint burst, because it has nearly the same effect, slightly less distance because of the animation. But, it puts a structure between you and the killer, meaning you probably end up gaining as much or more distance than sprint burst, and it lets you do some of the same things as sprint burst and hang out in dead zones as long as there is some window or something nearby to activate it. Which even on edges of the map isn't hard with things like z-walls.
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@Blinckx said:
As a killer main, I deeply hate this map, I think it's one of the worst existing ones for me.
First, survivors get a free generator, it's practically impossible to defend the generator in the saloon (same as the generator in the Garden of Joy house) it's just a waste of time to fight for that generator. The main building is TOO strong, too many escape routes, safe windows, strong pallets and outside there are other quite strong pallets. The part of the buildings with the walls to break is a big waste of time even if, allow, some mind gaming.
Generator spawning is also a big deal. Of course, sometimes a very close 3 gen cluster happens but, sometimes, some gen are on elevated platforms as spawns and offer immediate escape routes and can be repaired very easily
The only thing I like about this map is the shack with the breakable door. All killer shack should look like this and, I think, this is the real reason why the map is considered by many "killer friendly"
This.
They seem to have this map design where they make most of the map suck for survivors, but give them such an OP main building that you literally should just immediately abandon chase if a survivor gets to it, thus creating these stupid long games. Better to nerf these main buildings and spread the "power" around the map of how strong the structures are, rather than having one single powerful structure.
Garden of joy is just special though, that entire map is just ridiculous and powerful structures tons and tons of pallets, and a main building that has a literal infinite against some killers, and a near infinite for everyone else that will cause you to lose the game if you chase a survivor exploiting it because it will take you a solid minute and a half to even land a single hit.
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@EmmaFrostyEyes said:
Maybe unpopular opinion, but to me this community has made this game unbearable. I havent been playing recently because the games are just way too sweaty and unfun. There was one point where i was just running 0 perks as survivor just so i wouldnt be seen as being a sweatlord but i was still getting games of camping tunneling slugging 3 genning. Killer usually goes alright but thats mainly because i don’t sweat and let people go depending on how the match goes. But as survivor the games are just miserable. Just like that slugging skull merchant game i posted about a while back.
The community cares way too much about winning games instead of having fun. I started out in july of 2021 and back then it was so much fun. This was when i was using stealth alot because i was scared out of my mind. The game felt like horror to me. Especially on maps like hawkins (RIP). Bhvr has some stuff that made this game less horror, however the communities obsession both survivors and killer with winning. Doing everything such as using unfun boring playstyles or bring the most meta of meta perks and loadouts like bringing brand new parts or when everyone was bringing dead hard.
Also just how rude people in this community can be too. I had one match vs a nemesis that was tunneling me off the hook at 4 gens and i got put back on the hook again and started camping next to the hook. Well i just missed my both skill checks and went next. I went to a streamers chat who was my teammate to tell him “hey i was getting tunneled, i didnt want to stay in the match but i wish you the best of luck in your future games” just for the ttv to say a bunch of rude stuff like how “i played like a bot, i was the most pathetic p100 player, how i should uninstall, and how the macmillan was op and how i should have played better, that i got tunneled because i suck”. Not only was that nemesis player already playing unfun but then you got the ttv that just wants to be rude to chat for no reason. It got so bad that the next team that joined his lobby left because they saw how he was on stream
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/COX49D51JAY7/20b1d09a-0edf-474d-b2ca-1975a53d81b0.jpeg
I hate this community, taking a game this seriously where if you lose its like the end of the world and this “must win at all cost” mentality too.
sorry for my rant, the devs make some questionable decisions (especially with almost every single chapter is a dumpster fire) but to me its the players fault for how this game has turned out
You should always expect people to play to win. There's a free e-book written by game designer David Sirlin that talks about "playing to win" and i think this describes you perfectly:
https://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/introducingthe-scrub
The derogatory term “scrub” means several different things. One definition is someone (especially a game player) who is not good at something (especially a game). By this definition, we all start out as scrubs, and there is certainly no shame in that. I mean the term differently, though. A scrub is a player who is handicapped by self-imposed rules that the game knows nothing about. A scrub does not play to win.
Now, everyone begins as a poor player—it takes time to learn a game to get to a point where you know what you’re doing. There is the mistaken notion, though, that by merely continuing to play or “learn” the game, one can become a top player. In reality, the “scrub” has many more mental obstacles to overcome than anything actually going on during the game. The scrub has lost the game even before it starts. He’s lost the game even before deciding which game to play. His problem? He does not play to win.
The scrub would take great issue with this statement for he usually believes that he is playing to win, but he is bound up by an intricate construct of fictitious rules that prevents him from ever truly competing. These made-up rules vary from game to game, of course, but their character remains constant. Let’s take a fighting game off of which I’ve made my gaming career: Street Fighter.
In Street Fighter, the scrub labels a wide variety of tactics and situations “cheap.” This “cheapness” is truly the mantra of the scrub. Performing a throw on someone is often called cheap. A throw is a special kind of move that grabs an opponent and damages him, even when the opponent is defending against all other kinds of attacks. The entire purpose of the throw is to be able to damage an opponent who sits and blocks and doesn’t attack. As far as the game is concerned, throwing is an integral part of the design—it’s meant to be there—yet the scrub has constructed his own set of principles in his mind that state he should be totally impervious to all attacks while blocking. The scrub thinks of blocking as a kind of magic shield that will protect him indefinitely. Why? Exploring the reasoning is futile since the notion is ridiculous from the start.
You will not see a classic scrub throw his opponent five times in a row. But why not? What if doing so is strategically the sequence of moves that optimizes his chances of winning? Here we’ve encountered our first clash: the scrub is only willing to play to win within his own made-up mental set of rules. These rules can be staggeringly arbitrary. If you beat a scrub by throwing projectile attacks at him, keeping your distance and preventing him from getting near you—that’s cheap. If you throw him repeatedly, that’s cheap, too. We’ve covered that one. If you block for fifty seconds doing no moves, that’s cheap. Nearly anything you do that ends up making you win is a prime candidate for being called cheap. Street Fighter was just one example; I could have picked any competitive game at all.
Doing one move or sequence over and over and over is a tactic close to my heart that often elicits the call of the scrub. This goes right to the heart of the matter: why can the scrub not defeat something so obvious and telegraphed as a single move done over and over? Is he such a poor player that he can’t counter that move? And if the move is, for whatever reason, extremely difficult to counter, then wouldn’t I be a fool for not using that move? The first step in becoming a top player is the realization that playing to win means doing whatever most increases your chances of winning. That is true by definition of playing to win. The game knows no rules of “honor” or of “cheapness.” The game only knows winning and losing.
A common call of the scrub is to cry that the kind of play in which one tries to win at all costs is “boring” or “not fun.” Who knows what objective the scrub has, but we know his objective is not truly to win. Yours is. Your objective is good and right and true, and let no one tell you otherwise. You have the power to dispatch those who would tell you otherwise, anyway. Simply beat them.
The good news, is this is a live game. But the problem isn't the players. The problem is that, for both sides actually, the most effective way to play the game and win, is also the most boring for the other side. It is a fundamental problem with the design of the game itself. If you want to be mad at anyone, be mad at the devs for not fixing this years-long problem that has existed since nearly the inception of the game.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
Well if you are playing against better players than you, yes you should lose. There is nothing wrong with that.
And they were not faster than you. Even at end game with Hope. You were still faster.
But... Like you said, you are new Slinger. Why matchmaking did not work and you played against strong team? Matchmaking issues i think.
Btw, you should remove this screenshot. Name shaming is against rules. Just censor their names before share any screenshot.
This isn't naming and shaming though, they are simply asking for advice on how to deal with these types of survivors. No shaming involved there.
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@DredgeyEdgey said:
3 things 1 Bamboozle must have
2 engravings your be moving at sprint burst speed at the cost of longer charge time
3 chillie extra time before extending the sweep ,moving at sprintburst speed for like 8s is hard to deal with and scary good if you got 2 people close to each other
The problem is that several addons are actually bugged and give you negative impacts and make you move slower with no upside.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3439824#Comment_3439824
Nurse is still pretty popular for me. I wish she was not, i wish i had your games but all i have Nurse, Blight, Legion, Spirit...
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3439780#Comment_3439780
So what's your point?
You told me to watch this video. 4 top tier survivors were SWF'ing against top tier Nurse. And it ended to survivor lose 2 games. And 1 game they played so well but even this game ended with 2 kills.
Not all Nurses are good like Alf but you will see good Nurses here and there. But you can't have good teammates always. One weak line and Nurse will destroy your solo team.
And you are still trying to prove me Nurse is fine.
Even one of the best teams can't defeat Nurse but you are expecting average players can do this. Sure!
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3439787#Comment_3439787
High tier survivors are not dominating, that's not the fact. Even the best survivor streamers are dying most times. Escape is even rare for them. But killer streamers are still doing good. Otz, Tru3, Scott etc. They are still dominating their games as killer.
And kill rates tells nothing. Sadako is the strongest killer in game by this logic???
Plus you guys are keep talking how weak Nurse is but then you are winning most of your games with her. Weird 😫
You are missing the point. The point is, the same people that complain that nurse is overpowered or that blight is overpowered, think that things that survivors like Hens are able to do is totally fine. The reality is, at the absolute highest levels of competition, this game is HEAVILY survivor sided. And the only killers who actually stand any chance at competing against survivors at that level, are nurse and blight. No other killer can.
So when these people come in and say nurse or blight is OP, they always talk about how god tier nurses can exploit them to insane levels to go on crazy 1k win streaks.
But, when you ask these people a simple question such as. Should this game be balanced around high level players or average level players? The answer they typically give, is that the game should be balanced around average players. So then i simply point out, that if you follow that to its logical conclusion and look at the data. Then the data plain as day shows that, in the hands of the "AVERAGE" player, that nurse is vastly underpowered, and needs massive buffs.
My point is that i think this viewpoint is flawed, and that games should be balanced around what HIGH LEVEL players are capable of doing, while keeping in mind that lower tiers of players exist. For example, in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1p42KtZOCw&t=3m23sThe relevant part is timestamped, but to explain it a bit. The person in the video talks about a balance change to an item in TF2. The item was heavily nerfed because "players were too hard to hit when using the B.A.S.E. Jumper" and the "average" player in TF2 went "lol wut? that item is useless". Because the reality is the AVERAGE TF2 player was not exploiting that item to its fullest potential. So what they did was, nerf it in a way that the high level players exploiting it were no longer able to exploit it to the level that they were before. But the low level players were almost entirely unaffected by the nerf, because the reality was they weren't using that item that way to begin with.
THAT is my point. They need to be HEAVILY nerfing these crazy loops that survivors can do to waste several MINUTES of non-nurse killer's time so that other killers can actually stand a chance at higher levels. Doing this WILL NOT hurt low level survivor players, because they aren't exploiting those loops to begin with. They are busy pre-dropping the pallet at 5 gens and getting hit anyway. So it isn't going to hurt them if you nerf these type of loops and structures. All it will do is make HIGH LEVEL play better.
And when they do that type of thing, you might be able to start making changes that benefit the low level players without heavily impacting the high level players and vice versa.
And i know what you are going to say. You are going to say "but survivors like hens are rare". To which my reply is, yeah, and nurses like Supaalf are also rare. But besides that point, just because something is rare, doesn't mean it isn't a problem. I'll post this clip from otzdarva's stream:
https://clips.twitch.tv/AwkwardMildFerretPipeHype-0ehry4t4zExHh7Bo -
@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3439626#Comment_3439626
Yeah, just COMPLETELY disregard EVERYTHING I said in my post 👍
I had like multiple people respond to that post, and i misquoted you, but please be more toxic over a mistake. That is definitely going to make this conversation worthwhile.
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@Rovend said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3439626#Comment_3439626
While i understand the logic behind balancing towards 60%, you have to understand that:
1) these stats are almost a year old, oldenough that do not show the current level of nurse anymore.
2) the main problem related to nurse and these stats was that a single DC completely removes a game from the count. Nurse games are plagued with DCs left and right, people who DC after hearing the first blink, people who dc after a fast first down, dc after seeing she is tunneling. All this games are not registered in the final stats as you only see games which the 4 survivors played to the end.
1) I agree, and nurse was nerfed since then and survivors buffed. So she probably has dipped back below the 50% mark
2) Thats not how statistics works. If we have 10,000 games played with nurse, and 50% of them have a DC/Intentional hook suicide/giving up. Then you eliminate them from the stats. Then if nurse has a 52% kill rate in the remaining 5,000 games. That is still statistically significant. You only need a sample size of around 2,500 in order to get a statistic within a 2% margin of error: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margin_of_error Unless you are trying to make the claim that like 90% of nurse games are a DC, which i think is a bit extreme. 50% is extreme TBH, in my personal experience it is probably around 10-15% of my nurse games.
And if you are trying to argue that the DC games are included, than that would indicate nurse is FAR worse off than you think, because if survivors DC against her all the time and she still only has a 52% kill rate, that is a serious problem and she needs to be massively massively buffed.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3439649#Comment_3439649
Please stop making me repeat myself. Stop asking same questions which i already answered.
Your point is pointless. Like old Object of Obsession. One of the devs said this perk is fine because survivors who using it mostly dies. But this perk was not fine cuz obvious reasons.
You have same logic. Nurse has low kill rate because she is hard killer. If you are not good with her power, simply you can't get kills. Just because you can't get kills, this does not mean she is bad. She is at problematic side.
And like i said, you can't balance game around 60% killrate. Because your solo survivors will die more than that which makes their game exp really so bad.
Alright, i'm done talking with you since you want to keep disingenuously arguing a strawman point. Like i said, go complain to the devs then if you aren't willing to have a reasonable discussion with me.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3439631#Comment_3439631
Okey, i will come with your logic.
Let's nerf Nurse & Blight.
Why?
Low level Blights and Nurses are already bad and they won't be affected. They will still try m1 chase instead of using power effectively. Nothing will change for low level players.
But people who is abusing their busted powers and add-ons will be nerfed which is our goal.
High level nurses and blights are only playing against high level survivors. And high level survivors can deal with them:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtENJZ_z0zw&t=1sThe problem is at a high level survivors dominate killers. There is a reason tournaments often restrict survivors to only 1 of each item, or limiting perks, whereas killers are usually only limited to a few select banned addons (tomestone etc.)
This is shown true in the data for top MMR as well:
Nurse is NOT the best killer in the game, and this was actually BEFORE her nerfs.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3439638#Comment_3439638
You can't balance around 60% killrate when you have 2 different survivor groups. Because most likely solo survivors will die more than that. And this is what exactly happening atm.
They nerfed solo survivors into ground while they were trying nerf survivors. They nerfed healing which did not affect SWF but made Solo Survivor exp even worse.
So don't come to me with that. If you wanna make game balanced , first you need to make every group equal. And then you can balance game.
Take it up with the devs. I'm not going to tell you again while you try to argue the wrong point.
The devs have stated THAT THEY BALANCE THE GAME AROUND A 60% KILL RATE. If you don't like that. Take it up with them.
Now based on that knowledge, and that you want to balance the game around average players, and that nurse is BY FAR the WORST kill in the game. What buffs should we do to NURSE to make her stronger and closer to the EXTREMELY OVERPOWERED SADAKO?
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3439626#Comment_3439626
You are joking right? Why you will buff killer which has 52% killrate? If you are coming with that, non of these killers deserves buffs. And all of killers who has +60% killrate deserves nerf by that logic. Is that what you are asking?
BHVR balances the game around a 60% kill rate. Again, you can disagree with that, but they stated that that is their goal. It does make logical sense if you think about it.
Let's say a given player has a 2% chance to make a mistake that immediately loses their side the game. This means that survivors as a whole have a 2 + 2 + 2 + 2 = 8% chance of one of those mistakes happening in a game. Whereas the killer has a 2% chance of that kind of mistake happening. This is because the survivors are a team, so such a mistake can happen from any 4 of them, whereas the killer is only 1.
Again, i tell you, you can disagree with that as a percentage. But take it up wit the devs. 60% is their goal.
Now i ask again, based on that. What buffs should we do for nurse to bring her more in like with someone who is as OP as sadako?
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@hatchetChugger said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3439035#Comment_3439035
High level tbh, all games that have good balance do so around the most skilled part of the playerbase.
I'm glad someone has some sense of logic. I think this video and timestamp but the whole video in general sums up my feelings on the subject:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1p42KtZOCw&t=203sYou can nerf and buff things that don't hurt low level players, or nerf and buff things that don't high level players. For example, crazy near-infinite loops and main buildings. Or killer shack into jungle gym into cow tree. You can probably nerf these things significantly. Why? Well because low level survivors aren't abusing these structures to begin with. They are too busy predropping shack pallet at 5 gens and getting hit through it anyway. Whereas these top survivors abuse the hell out of these structures to force the kill to basically lose if they think about chasing them in those areas of the map. You can nerf camping which hurts low level survivors significantly, without hurting high level, if done correctly. Camping isn't really done at a high level outside of endgame, because camping will immediately mean you lose the game, yeah maybe you'll get a single kill, but that's it and you'll immediately lose.
"It's worth pointing out that the more skilled players, and especially professionals... are the best at breaking your game; as they'll be better at exploiting balance problems." - Greg "Ghostcrawler" Street
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3439035#Comment_3439035
Should be balanced around everyone, and BHVR knows this
A great example of that is a buff Nemesis received a while back which made him faster while holding his tentacle in tier 3. Those at a lower level wouldnt necessarily reach tier 3 all that often, but those at the higher levels would. So what they did is made a change that would only have an effect on higher level players while having little effect to lower level players.
How this could be applied to The Nurse Im not sure, but BHVR is usually pretty creative with these kinds of things. Unfortunately since she was already changed not too long ago, I dont think shes gonna be looked at any time soon
@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3439035#Comment_3439035
Game needs to be balanced around average players. That's why Nurse should be reworked. She was busted. She is still busted after all of her nerfs. BHVR can keep nerf her but nothing will change. Her ability is so much.
Sounds great! I'll be eagerly awaiting the massive buffs they need to do for nurse. BHVR balances around a 60% kill rate. You can disagree with that, and think it should be 50%, but they landed on 60% for a reason. So if that is their balance point, lets look at the stats for average players.
Oh look, nurse is by far the worst killer in the game. And look how much higher trapper is than her!
So which buffs do you think nurse should get to bring her more in line with some of the more crazy powerhouses like sadako?
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@Luckyfer said:
I made this post just after I played about 2-3mins getting tunneled by a Nurse.
I don't think...I KNOW she has to get nerfs.
The easiest nerf would be to make her second blink not beign able to blink through objects,if Wraith can't go through objects with an uncloacking speed penalty,neither this failure known as Nurse should.
But we could also make her after reappear or while she is blinking for all scratch marks to not be visible or blood pools,maybe make her the only killer in existence to not get notified when an unhook happens.
Or maybe just let people that have to face her face no DC penalty,because as much as Nurse mains like to say she belongs to this game,she belongs to beign disabled indefinetly until a healthy rework happens.
Do you think this game should be balanced around:
- Top tier players (top 200 players)
- High level players (top 1-2% of players)
- Average players (the majority of players)
- Low level players (bottom 10-20%)
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@luvcraft said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3436382#Comment_3436382
this is brilliant and I will try it!
I find it makes games much more fun.
Basically though, just stop tryharding, lose a bunch of games so your MMR goes down, and set a different win condition for yourself. When you meet that win condition, even if the game thinks you "lost" you'll still feel great about it, because you won in your eyes for the win condition you set yourself. And the cycle repeats.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3435863#Comment_3435863
????
You literally load into a handful of maps and win if you have Corrupt Intervention, you're good at the game, and feel like winning. I win games when I load into Suffo Pit, see a 4 gen on one side, and never cross the map. No amount of doing gens in the correct order fixes that. Same with Dead Dawg, Azarovs, Sanctum of Wrath, Groaning Storehouse, Family Residence, Coal Tower, Wreckers Yard (hook basement and win), Father Campbell's, even Ormond and RPD if we're really feeling campy.
Sure, but that's a problem with map design, not a killer's "ego", which is the point i'm making. It isn't egotistical to play to win.
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@Brimp said:
I think he could really be solid if EMPs weren't so oppressive honestly. The fact that there's SEVEN boxes around the map and each just keep spawning them so as you run to the next gen/unhook you can easily grab an EMP on the way.
I would honestly take the emp having to be an action you stand still for to use over being able to run with it if they made it so when you teleport to someone with a biopod it would make it disappear off their back.
They should be a choice. If you take the item from the box, it should have a really really long respawn timer, or you can just use the box, and its a shorter timer to make a new one.
The other thing is that you shouldn't be able to use them while moving. You should have to stop moving and they take like 8 seconds. Or they force you to walk instead of run. That way you can't use them in a chase. Right now the best strat is to just pick one up, hold it, and when you get infected immediately clear it while getting chased, and he is an m1 killer.
Or maybe, the EMP you take with you can't cure infection, and must be done at a box. That way you actually have to find a box or something to clear it.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
He is probably BHVR's fav killer. If he is not, i don't know what is the reason he is not getting any nerf.
+ 2nd best killer in game.
+ Very strong chase power.
+ Very strong map mobility.
+ His mains loves to abuse hug-tech (bug)
+ Broken level add-ons.
+ Whenever Nurse miss with her blinks, she gets punishment by it but Blight? No Sir! Thanks to 4.6 movement speed.
Now imagine this killer people. S-tier killer. Very busted with some add-ons but BHVR nerfed average killers like Slinger and Freddy before Blight. End of story.
Question for you.
Should this game be balanced around:
- Top tier players (top 200 players)
- High level players (top 1-2%)
- Average level players (most people)
- Low skill players (bottom 10%)
Basically, imagine the left side of this graph is the lower skill players, and the right side is the higher skill players. Where should the game be balanced around?
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@Orthane said:
I either get completely stomped and barely have 2-3 hooks by the time they get 5 gens done, or I completely stomp them and they only finish 2. There is almost never an inbetween. Having an actual good game is super rare. I've had a few where I didn't have to tunnel and still got 2-3 kills and those feel good. But having to hard facecamp and/or Tunnel because I have 2 hooks and they're on last gen, and they spread them out so I can't 3 gen is so unfun. I hate tunneling but I HAVE to do it in most games or I won't even get 1 kill. Gens pop so extremely fast that every regression perk is completely unviable and useless. 125% of normal Regression whoopy doo that means it'll take survivors 22 seconds instead of 20 seconds to repair 1 whole minute of regression! The only useful one is Jolt, and that's just because on pretty much every M1 killer there's no better options.
Idk what it is about the games I've been having lately but it truly feels like tunneling is a requirement if I want to get even just 2 kills most of the time. With how fast gens fly by when 2 people have boxes, Prove Thyself, and maybe a few other tools for gen speed, and God forbid one of them has a BNP. Which means you are forced to take someone out of the game as quickly as possible or before you know it all gens will be done. And if you injured everyone too bad, because Adrenaline is picked by over 25% of all Survivors, and if that pops not only can you not catch them, but they've also healed instantly. Incredible.
I've started playing Survivor with a No Mither build and even when I'm basically exposed all the time I have so much more fun than as Killer. When I'm playing Killer it's a constant battle with frustration while I desperately try to get 1-2 kills and getting annoyed when 2 gens pop in a minute when I'm on first chase. But with Survivor, I can genuinely just have fun. Maybe I'm just bad at Killer, but playing Killer is just so demoralizing in so many games.
The chase to gen speed ratio is off and has been off for a while. But it was hidden due to the 3 gen meta that was going on previously. Now that it has been nerfed and there really aren't any good slowdown perks anymore that slow the game down enough against these good survivors it can be quite bad.
Also with toolboxes and things like hyperfocus having come into the meta, really good survivors can exploit those to really shave off time on a gen to be around 60 seconds, or even faster if they get good RNG.
My personal advice to you is to do what i do which results in me getting more fun games most of the time.
- On the 13th of the month, when the ranks reset, tryhard to get rank 1 as fast as possible
- After that, start playing a "game" within the game. Where you goal now becomes to 2 hook every survivor, and then kill the obsession once the gate has opened. It doesn't have to be the obsession, but for me i'm "roleplaying" a bit and try to go for the obsession. Also the obsession gets bonus points for dying as the obsession, so it makes up for them not escaping a bit.
- If you 2 hook every survivor and they aren't done with gens, start downing them with your power or hits, and chases to max out your bloodpoints.
- Once the gates are powered, try to get in a chase with the obsession and down them, then wait for the gate to open, or open the gate yourself, and hook the survivor.
- Bonus points if you want to run rancor and do this.
- Let the others escape.
This results in a few things:
- you only getting 1 kill, but still getting around 36k bloodpoints, nearly capping hook states while capping the other 3.
- 3 survivors escape, meaning the game thinks you "lost" so your MMR goes down.
- The survivors tend to have more fun and are less toxic in the endgame, often thanking you for a good time.
- The survivors get a ton of bloodpoints
- The killer gets a ton of bloodpoints.
- Because your MMR goes down, your next match, in theory is more chill.
If you do this for a while, you start to notice that you stop getting matched against top survivors and you can play more fun more chill matches. If the matches get a little too easy or boring for you, play a few games where you kill all the survivors as fast as possible to increase your MMR and get matched against better survivors until you get that sweet spot of fun but chill. Once i hit that sweet spot, which usually only takes a few days after i'm done tryharding for rank 1, i will often play a couple matches like this, then tryhard for a match, and repeat this every few games, keeping me in that sweet spot.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3436055#Comment_3436055
Good post.
I genuinely think at this point that BHVR have fully bought into the “chase is the only fun part of the game” argument. Have lots of chases guys, get some hooks if you can (not on the same survivor of course, and never twice in a row) and wave them off at the exit gates! Sounds fun!
This would actually be fine if the bloodpoint gains were increased, and we deemed a single kill as a "win" for the killer.
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@truthserum21 said:
I play roughly 100-120 matches as survivor per day. Usually I get about 20-25 friendly ghostfaces or someone else doing a challenge or daily who wont chase, attack, or do anything except their minor task. Then I also get roughly 30-35 AFK Pinheads and a few random other killers who get passive bloodpoints from their kit that just swing their weapon and turn in a circle. The y always have Beast of Prey, Distressing, and Lightborn. Sometime Corrupt Int or Thrill of the Hunt.
I bought this game to play it. The fact that 50% or MORE of the matches I queue into are these types of matches is outright unacceptable. Can we please make this type of thing a first offense permaban to any account who does this. Also can we revoke the rights to the content the account purchased as well so they cant just game share or account hop without having to purchase all content over again on a new account?
If this sounds extreme to anyone then maybe we can just remove rift challenges and daily tasks? Also remove the bloodweb and bloodpoint system so that playing the regular game would be just like customs? If players dont have selfish incentives it would really make the quality of life on this game much better.
You play 100 games a day? Even if each game only lasted around 5 minutes, which is a big stretch, that would be 8 hours, just in the game, that doesn't even include matchmaking and loading times.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3435915#Comment_3435915
See Mandy's reply above mine
That's not what you said, you said holding a 3 gen makes you egotistical, mandy is talking specifically about doing something intentionally from the beginning of the match for the INTENT to hold the game hostage. I'm talking about tactically setting up the 3 gen because i notice the survivors are giving me one, then decided to not chase them when they go to the strongest structure in the game that will minimum make my chase take 60+ seconds.
@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3435811#Comment_3435811
no we are not ignoring that, which is why there's a buff to Deja Vu in the patch notes.
It's the circumstances around the killer going into a match and just setting up for a 3 gen that we're looking to address in the long term. Playing for the game to end in an hour isn't the intended way for DbD to be played.
While we are at it, can we do something to prevent 2 survivors from hiding forever and not repairing gens because they both want the hatch? This also sucks for everyone involved when it happens.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3435863#Comment_3435863
When you refuse to leave them and hold the match hostage, yeah, it's an ego thing and clearly the Devs agree to some extent.
This discussion again.
Why should the killer, whose objective it is to prevent the survivors from escaping, be forced to leave the thing that prevents the survivors from escaping, when survivors put themselves in that position to begin with? If there is a 3 gen, and 4 survivors are up, and when i start to chase a survivor they immediately run to the strongest structure in the game, why should i chase them when it is guaranteed i lose at that point?
While it seems like they are doing this, it should be fixed from a game mechanic perspective in some way, not by saying "killer bad" for doing what their role dictates.
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@Pulsar said:
"EXCESSIVELY LONG MATCHES DUE TO 3-GENS"
They are trying to prevent matches where Killers just hold an infinite 3-gen until the server closes or Survivors decide that doing literally anything else would be better than sitting in an hour long game with someone who has an ego issue.
Defending your generators now means you have an ego issue? 3 gens are caused by survivors not spreading out how they repair generators.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3435694#Comment_3435694
After the match, only so people get ego-checked.
Although, it'd be interesting to see how many people accuse BHVR of protecting SWF's and caling it a conspiracy.
But that makes the game ######### for those solo survivors just trying to chill. That is my point, if it showed you before the match, you would KNOW that you are going to have a chill game, vs a not chill game, and lets you plan accordingly. Killer players aren't all scumbags who want to play mean from the get go. Sure, some are, but it is not the majority.
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@The_Krapper said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3434789#Comment_3434789
Not every team is a hit squad, most swf are still bad at the game and just because bad killers dodge lobbies doesn't mean swf is a problem, these are the same killers that dodge items and outfits it's absolutely ridiculous people are this upset that face camping is getting nerfed when everyone knows it's a cheap strat that unskilled players use and now they won't be able to just sit there like a sleezeball and ruin the game , the forum is in tears because now you actually have to go pressure the gens you're complaining are being rushed it's classic after people have been making gen stall perk builds and face camping for months now.
Like i said though, you can't KNOW its going to be a hit squad. So you HAVE to bring your best stuff, and play your absolute best, and scummy as possible and tunnel/proxy camp at the right times. Because if you don't do that from the get go, and they turn out to be a hit squad, you lost. This is why they need to be telling us when we are playing against SWF.
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@lifeisstrange said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3435320#Comment_3435320
As usual a pointless reply. Maybe you like staying injured or not having potatoes not heal you but am going to do my bones to risk not having noed hit me if I had to body block for someone and love to heal off annoying sloppy or nurses and get back to my gen asap. MMR has nothing to do with it i been iri 1 many times and platinum this game so please try again. Whos cares about tournamnents? I play the game for casuality not for sweating lmao.
Like i said, your MMR is showing.
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@Kaitsja said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3435315#Comment_3435315
A duo using callouts over Discord just gives them access to information they'd otherwise lack, not that it matters much anymore with the HUD which tells you what each survivor is doing. A duo swf on comms stomping you would accomplish the same result without comms.
They aren't getting access to 50+ perks for free. What characterises a death squad is how well they know each map, how well they run each tile, what perks they brought, what items they brought, how well they're relaying information to each other, how well they're coordinating their plays.
There's a lot that goes into the characteristics of a death squad; and while all death squads are swf, not all swf are death squads.
I define these types of players that use clock callouts as what i'm talking about. And yeah, you do get around 50 perks for free using discord. Take a look at the survivor perks again, and which ones just give you information or communicate information to your teammates. And discord gives you that perk for free. Its hard to quantify to be honest because discord actually gives you MORE than any perk could do. It is insane how much this game was designed around survivors lacking information, and how much discord completely breaks that.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3435315#Comment_3435315
What constitutes a good match?
One that can go either way, where the game typically gets to the last generator being done, and i have 7-8 hooks, and it all comes down to how well i can defend the gates and 2-3 of them typically escape, or they make a misplay at the end, get a little too overly altruistic and i 4k because they don't expect the bloodwarden, or i make a sick play like a sick billy curve, or some other reason.
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@lifeisstrange said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3434831#Comment_3434831
Doing totems if they dull is more points and there are still bad killers who use crutch ed, who wanna try body block on end game collaspe to instant down and camped by crutch ed. Also there is inner healing cause am sick of nurses, clown anti heal perk and sloppy. Doing bones is no waste of time.
I think you just tipped your hand a bit and showed us your MMR. Sure, those are valid reasons to do it, but i'm talking about in the general sense. Watch a pro tournament game and tell me how many survivors are running inner healing.
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@Kaitsja said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3434486#Comment_3434486
How often, realistically, does one get matched with these SWF kill squads? Unless you're high MMR, you're about as likely to get that kind of match as killer as survivors are to get matched against a 4,000 hour Nurse/Blight main who can 4k within a couple minutes of the match starting.
It happens, sure, but not nearly as often as people like to pretend. The problem with the genrush discussion is that no-one wants to admit that simply playing the game normally and doing your objective as a survivor is not genrushing.
Genrushing would be dedicating a build to completing gens as fast as possible, in order to maximise efficiency. That means perks like Hyperfocus w/Stake Out, Prove Thyself, Overzealous, etc. That means Commodius Toolbox with BNP.
It happens to me probably one out of every 2-3 or so games. They aren't all "hens' death squad" teams. But it is clearly matching me against duo and trio SWF who are calling out to each other on discord every couple games which gives them around 50+ perks for free just by having discord. Generally, i'll stomp a team, then have 1 good match, then i'll get one of these death teams that beat me, then the cycle repeats, when in reality matchmaking should be giving me the ones that are good matches.
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@Steakdabait said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3434486#Comment_3434486
Using extremes for discussion is a waste of time, I can easily just bring up nurse/blight and nullify your entire argument. It's better to pretend the likes of nurse/blight bnp/hyperfocus doesn't exist if we want to have a real discussion instead of just collectively trying to one up each other on which side is the more oppressed
How about we fix all of these broken things so the game is better for everyone?
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@JustAnotherNewbie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3434831#Comment_3434831
Why is killer at low level not losing often then? He is also a bad player.
What you are describing is not the game in its current state, if your argument is "killer is the power role" for all your arguments, I don't think I can change your mind.
The game at the moment is not a stealth game, it's morphed into something else. There anti-loop killers now, so your points don't stand to scrutiny. Killers getting PTSD over how broken things were back in the day is no excuse to not acknowledge that things have been a lot better for killers recently.
Just forget how this game was first conceived of, it's no longer that game, it has evolved. Idk if you were around back then or just being nostalgic of how things used to be even if you were not around.
There is a game that will come out with what you are looking for, it's Texas Chainsaw Massacre, maybe that can give you all you're looking for in DBD.
That's my point, this game is balanced around that old idea of what the game was, effectively a game of hide and seek that turned into a short game of tag. But people realized that the hide and seek aspect wasn't nearly as effective as the "tag" aspect, and the game morphed. But the balance of the game is still such that the game isn't balanced properly at a high level, because low level low skill survivors are playing by these "old" "rules" because it is naturally what you want to do.
And at a low level, this game also has its problems, but mostly around experience for the survivors. Low skill survivors don't know how to deal with tunneling and camping which is so prevalent in lower levels, mostly because it is so effective. And the devs are already addressing the camping aspect, and the tunneling aspect is already solvable through many perks and to an extend the basekit BT.