Reinami
Reinami
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- Reinami
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@JustAnotherNewbie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3434808#Comment_3434808
Not really, because survivors can't force their teammate to be efficient. Killer can bring the most busted stuff and just because someone brought Hyperfocus-Stake out it don't mean #########, if the rest cannot keep up. I don't understand why it's so difficult for killer mains to understand. You're not last on the totem pole, solo survivor is. Killer has the advantage over solo and even 2 man SWF most of the time. We can't pretend every game is a co-ordinated SWF. And even if 2 of them are, the other might be randoms. That team is still in a great disadvantage.
And hearin lies the problem.
This game is balanced around survivors being scared to do gens. Around hiding from the killer, and wanting to sneak around. Around looping not existing, and pallets being a "last resort" to get away. Around survivors wanting to look in chests for items. Around survivors doing totems because skulls are scary. Around survivors wanting to group up because they feel safer together. Its balanced around survivors roleplaying survivors. But once that roleplay is removed and survivors realize that:
- Looping is actually very effective
- Hiding is not effective and is a waste of time
- Searching a chest will not get you an item that is worth the time actually looking for the item
- Doing totems is pointless if the killer doesn't have a Hex, and actually might hurt your team.
- Who cares if the killer is near you, just do the gen, if you see them coming, run to a loop. Hell do the gen in their face because it is almost done.
Imagine if survivors simply had to search every chest, and do every totem to escape along with gens. Suddenly you add a full 2-3 minutes of game time, and that's assuming they know where every single one of them is. Imagine if survivors HAD to group up on a gen to do it, so now when you get pressured the killer pressures 2 of you at once.
This is why "low level/low skill" players think the game is so unbalanced. Because they already are bad at the game, so they go down super quick, and these things add so much time.
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@GannTM said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3433781#Comment_3433781
Getting all four uses of Pain Resonance is literally 100% of a whole gen. That saves more time than what DS provided in most cases.
Its 100% of a gen yes, but it requires you to spread hooks around, which spreading around 4 hooks, even if all the survivors don't use pallets or windows and immediately go down holding w, is going to take 55 seconds per chase. This is going to amount to:
survivor 1 gets chased and hooked
2 gens have 55 seconds of progress
1 gen has 32.5 seconds of progress
survivor 2 gets chased and hooked
1 get is completed
2 gens have 32.5 seconds of progress
survivor 3 gets chased and hooked
1 gen is completed
1 gen has 12.5 seconds of progress
survivor 4 gets chased
1 gen has 45 seconds of progress
Survivors have now completed 2 generators and are halfway to a 3rd, meaning their objective around half done, you now no longer have a perk, and you still need to 2 hook every survivor and yours is 1/3 done. The way the flow of the game works, is you MUST eliminate a survivor by the time you hit 1-2 gens or you will lose.
The old pain res didn't require you to spread around hooks, meaning it was much more useful.
Now lets look at the math for DS.
DS stuns the killer for 3 seconds, 0.5 seconds i believe of which is animation time for the survivor meaning they get 10 meters of distance for the survivor. If the survivor doesn't get to a pallet, this adds 3 seconds (pickup animation) + 0.5 seconds of killer being stunned + ~8 seconds to catch up to the survivor and lunge + ~1 second lunge animation + 2.7 attack cooldown. You can think the second pickup animation, the hook animation and walking to the hook would be the same if they didn't have DS.
This means at MINIMUM DS adds 3 + 0.5 + 8 + 1 + 2.7= 15.2 seconds added to the chase. That is with the survivor not getting to any loop. Multiply that by 4, and it adds 60.8 seconds of chase time. Getting to a pallet adds at minimum 15 seconds to a chase. 2.7 break animation, during which the survivor gains 10.8 meters of distance + a few meters for pallet range, so lets say 12 meters which takes ~12 seconds to catch up to. Meaning, this means that all it takes is for a single survivor using DS to get to a pallet.
Remember, this is a 4v1 game, not a 1+1+1+1v1. The 1 should ALWAYS be stronger than the 4. This is assuming that every survivor gets the minimum use out of the perk, and the killer gets the MAXIMUM use out theirs. And it still pretty close.
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@JustAnotherNewbie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3434788#Comment_3434788
Survivors also don't know they're going against killers with their most broken builds. It still won't stop killers setting the pace of the game. It'll just make it easier for killers to pick and choose who they like to play against.
Survivors set the pace of the game with how efficient they play on gens. Killers are reacting to what survivors do.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3434789#Comment_3434789
Same can be said for Survivors
Almost like matchmaking should be good. But no, instead we have this trash one where matchmaking for MMR purposes caps at 1600, meaning a real 1600 player could go against a 2.2k player.
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@sulaiman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3434486#Comment_3434486
So, do you want the game balanced around those swf kill squads, and if so, what do you think the changed balance would do to all solo teams, that are still about 50% of all matches?
Yeah actually, i want the game to be balanced around high level players. Not even just SWF. This video at the timestamp sums it up:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1p42KtZOCw&t=203sWhat is the high level top tier survivor doing? They are exploiting extremely powerful loops on cowshed that make it nearly impossible for a killer to catch them. What are "average" survivors doing? Predropping shack pallet at 5 gens and getting hit anyway. These average survivors aren't exploiting the broken mechanics that top tier survivors are doing, so if you nerf those top tier mechanics, you aren't actually hurting those survivors.
If you disagree, and think the game should be balanced around low skill players, then i'll be eagerly awaiting the MASSIVE buffs that nurse needs, given that she is by far the worst killer in the game when looking at "average" skilled players.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3434486#Comment_3434486
I mean the killer equivalent to that is like a Blight bringing Alch Ring, Compound 33 or Crow with a slowdown build against a casual/Solo Q team. The other side is basically meant to lose unless they bring things of equal caliber
Its why I believe add ons should be a factor in matchmaking. You wanna bring Ultra Rares? Sure! But be prepared to go against them
Problem is, killer doesn't know if the match is going to be chill. You HAVE to play like that from the get go, because if you don't and they are one of those SWF kill squads, by the time you realize that, its too late and you lost.
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@JustAnotherNewbie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3434486#Comment_3434486
It's a problem when it's the other way around as well. Non SWF teams playing against pre-nerf Eruption, Pain Resonance, CoB. And it still happens (and will continue to happen) with Nurse running 3 teleport build and Blight running his strong add-ons. They don't care they're playing against solos. That's the problem with their add-ons and/or matchmaking.
If matchmaking was fixed, then we'd have less of those instances.
Problem is they don't KNOW they are playing against solos. Best solution would be to stop playing games with this and show killers when they are playing with a SWF and not. That way i know if i need to bring my best stuff, or if i can meme around and play a chill game. If it creates a problem where killers queue dodge games with SWF, then obviously we have a problem with SWF don't we?
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@BooperDooper said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3434332#Comment_3434332
Yes the survivors as a whole won. But the one that dies gets like no points and didn't get to participate in the match. Not to mention they died to absolutely no skill but someone standing still and clicking m2 every now and then to scare off unhooking survivors.
That's a problem with the point system, not the idea of a team game. I personally think they need to look at bloodpoint gains as a whole for survivors and a few killers. Survivors who are camped on hook should get bonus BPs for "distracting" the killer that is significant enough that they get around 20k points just like the rest of their team.
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@[Deleted User] said:
They did - it's called +10s extra gen repair time and 2.5% progress loss on kick
If you can't stop gens, im afraid that's a you problem and not a game problem
Say that to killers who get matched against SWF kill squads running hyperfocus, commodius, and send you to garden of joy. 10 seconds isn't going to do a damn thing, when survivors literally just doing nothing but holding shift + w, no pallets, no windows, no looping, no anything, take 55 seconds to down and hook. Now do it 12 times lol
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@1ettuce said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3434403#Comment_3434403
But of course it's never a question of why should a killer get a free kill just because they're playing bubba. Totally not a double standard at all....
Its not a free kill. They have to get the down first, and again you are looking at this like its not a 4v1. A single kill is still a loss. Stop with the whataboutism now because i won't engage with it at this point.
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@1ettuce said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3434389#Comment_3434389
Exactly, so ds in endgame shouldn't be a problem since it's a loss either way. Not trying to whataboutism my ass off just saying I see so many ppl ok with one but not the other, if you're ok with both or neither, then it's whatever
you are literally whataboutisming your ass off, as you put it. Why should the 1 survivor get a free escape in the endgame just because they have a perk. And DS in endgame is more than just "oh no 4 survivors escaped" it can turn a total loss into a win for the survivors just because the perk in endgame has literally 0 counter. You can't leave them on the ground, because they crawl away, you can't pick them up because of DS. Every perk should have a counter to it, and old DS had 0 counter.
The point of endgame, is for you to get your ass out quick and leave. Not linger around and 99 the gates and try and get everyone out for free. It is when the killer is at their absolute strongest, because the only thing for them to defend is the hook. Of course they should be powerful at that moment.
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@1ettuce said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3434332#Comment_3434332
Don't care, 1k is a kill and should not be guaranteed, just as ppl wanted ds to deactivate so 4 outs wouldn't be guaranteed over 3 outs
because a 1k is still a loss for the killer.
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@Smoe said:
Yes it's another one of those threads, it doesn't have to be picks with any actual realistic chance of making it into the game, just which characters would overall complete the lineup for you personally.
Jason is really it in terms of licenses.
Other things that missing that "technically" could be licensed, but are in the public domain is:
- Dracula
- Frankenstein's Monster
- Wolfman
- The Mummy
- Anything Lovecraft.
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@1ettuce said:
Some ppl are really out here telling me that a camping bubba isn't uncounterable and that it's totally possible to get a 4 out against one. So please, show me a video of this happening, without any perks or items being necessary from the survivor side. And also preferably without the bubba being absolutely garbage at the game but we'll cross that bridge when we get there
Its not uncounterable in the since that the survivors will win. But 1 will probably die. The problem is people keep seeing this as a 1/1/1/1v1 when it is a 4v1. So if the killer kills 1 survivor, and 3 get out. The team of survivors won.
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@bm33 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3434191#Comment_3434191
Do you have official statement saying it was scrapped?
The only thing I've seen is that it's currently not confirmed to come to the game but it's not scrapped either, the PTB test allowed them to get feedback to make tweaks. If slugging becomes an issue that will push BHVR to finish work on the basekit unbreakable/finisher mori. Kind of like how they originally said no to basekit anti-camping mechanic but now they're planning to release one thanks to increase in camping.
Wheres my basekit anti-gen rush on cowshed with SWF with commodius and BNP?
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@jesterkind said:
...We still don't know what the numbers on the bar are, though. Honestly, I also have to say I'm very rarely as close to a hook as the first and second pictures show without other survivors also being around that are trying to loop me around their teammate, so even this doesn't look all that scary. Seems like the bar might fill up partway as you're walking away, that's all.
The only concern will be multi-level maps, and that's something the PTB will be testing, whenever it is.
We do though, they literally told us:
at 5 meters it fills up really fast
at 5-10 it fills up a bit slower
at 10-16 it fills up slow
at 16+ it doesn't fill up at all.
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@indieeden7 said:
The terms 'camping' and 'face camping' have been used interchangeably for years
That is not accurate. Face camping has always been the classic bubba staring at you while you are on the hook and holding the chainsaw ready to go. Obviously this is used in other cases,but i'm saying this is the textbook example.
The other form would be "proxy camping" where you are camping, but from a distance in a way to cut survivors off. For example, maybe you hook 1 survivor on 1 corner of the map, and you know all the other survivors are on the other side. So you might camp in the middle and cut off anyone who is going for the save before they can.
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@AGM said:
This is such a ridiculous overreaction when we don't even know all the specifics.
We literally already know the specifics:
A killer being within 5 meters of a hooked survivor will cause this meter to increase substantially. Between 5 and 10 meters causes a gradual increase. A killer being further than 16 meters from a hooked survivor will cause the meter to stop filling up completely.
5 Meters is fine, even 10 meters is fine, lunge distance is 6 meters. But 16 is getting quite large, half a terror radius. This is going to be a massive problem where survivors can purposefully make a chase go to a hooked survivor, or on maps with multiple floors, where you actually aren't able to "camp" a survivor on a hook because you are actually really far in terms of walking distance, but because the survivor is on the floor above you they get a free unhook.
Unless they make the timer completely stop if another survivor is nearby, this is going to be exploited, all i have to do is just run over to the area the hooked survivor is at when i get chased. Now, if they abandon chase, i can freely unhook. If they don't abandon chase, the other survivor can just unhook themselves.
Just like the last time they did this, good survivors will be able to heavily exploit this. Which is precisely the problem and always has been. The balance between "low skill" and "high skill" survivors is insane. The types of things high skill survivors can exploit is bad.
A BETTER solution to camping i have always thought is to have 1 set of shared hook states. Basically, there are 12 hook states to kill all the survivors, but the first 4 are shared. This means if you camp someone, you'll need to camp them through 6 hook states before you can kill them. Which will take 6 minutes. The other 3 survivors will easily finish all the gens. This also effectively removes tunneling from the game, because you can't tunnel a survivor out anymore.
THEN they can go and do some sweeping killer buffs that increase their lethality (NOT increase gen speed) and make chases shorter. The best solution for that is to heavily nerf some of the ridiculous loops that can spawn in the game.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3433184#Comment_3433184
I already wrote you the answer. You just decided to ignore it. But let me visualize.
A, because even healthy person can wrongly identify it like this:
o |
|
| x
|
|
B, because there are some people that would hear the footsteps even thru gen and tree. You can't normalize for them. U need to normalize for "normal" people - which is hard - taking into account all background noise (examples from top of my head - boon, hex, barrels, flickering lights, main in lerys, music in safe rooms on RPD (each map has some loud area btw), fast vaults/failed skillchecks by other players, screams, chase music, killer's own footsteps/abilities, etc) makes it very hard.
But as I stated at the very beginning. If devs a tually manage to pull this off so that it would be useless for "normal" people, but useful for "challenged" people, then such a feature would be awesome. But there's so much room to make this feature OP instead of just accessibility, that it would be very hard.
Maybe if you don't have headphones, but i guarantee you, you can't mistakenly identify it that way, and if you do, then you have a probably have a hearing issue or we aren't playing the same game. Surround sound headphones clearly point out where people are when they are injured.
And regardless, they need to something for deaf and hearing impaired people. In some parts of the world they actually have a legal obligation to provide accessibility features.
At the end of the day. If they release a feature and it effects balance, so what. Why can't we then make balance changes to address that very problem? The survivor terror radius indicator has completely destroyed sadako, and nearly every single survivor streamer, hearing impaired or not, is using the feature. So obviously an already released feature already has problems. And not doing the same thing for killers is heavily biased.
Lastly, there are TON of features they can do for deaf people. Look a this FPS that has an entire feature that shows visual indicators for sound, even taking into account audio occlusion:
https://twitter.com/Vercidium/status/1618429130277806080?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1618429130277806080%7Ctwgr%5E91231de2f5150572c7b4440a0a6524f9e2a0b94f%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.kotaku.com.au%2F2023%2F02%2Fsectors-edge-sound-visualisation-deaf-players%2F -
@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3433158#Comment_3433158
What? No!
1, even deaf people can play killer now perfectly fine. They just have it harder (but not impossible). Meaning they already are not screwed (but I agree they are challeged more).
2, you totally missed my point. The fact, thet you are not Usain Bolt does not preclude you from ever going for a hobby run. If you however have no legs at all, it's fine to give you wheelchair. But it's not OK to give you electric version that is so speedy as Bolt. And I thought I made this point well enough in previous paragraph.
So not using any metaphor - it's ok give you a benefit that most people already have by having average ears. It's not ok giving you for free things, that best people in the world can somehow figure out after a lot of effort and self training. You are asking for perfect echolocation, which almost nobody can get. (And if that's ok, then why not delete any human differences by same argument - and only watch as PC plays against itself)
- Why should they have to have it harder when survivors have now been given the same kinds of tools to allow them to better play survivor?
- That is a false comparison, because you can TRAIN to run faster. And if you have some kind of disability or "don't have legs" they have actual competitions for those kinds of people. But this is a video game, not some physical activity. These are problems that can be solved.
Lastly, nobody has been able to clear explain to me. How is having a visual indicator different. Let me visualize it:
o = injured survivor
x = killer
| = wall
| | o | x | |
I'm the killer, and i HEAR that a survivor is injured on the other side of this wall, i know they are right next to me on the wall in the very middle of it because i can physically HEAR them. For hearing impaired people, they can turn on a feature to give them an indicator to show that there is an injured survivor "in that direction" and then can, just as they could with hearing, deduce that they are on the other side of that wall.
Then another one mentioned.
o = survivor
x = killer
G = generator
T = tree
o G T x
I am the killer, and this is a loud generator that makes it so you can't hear survivor footsteps. This survivor is not injured and they are crouch walking around this generator, but i don't know they are there because i can't hear the footsteps. So i walk away thinking they are elsewhere.
I am now someone who has this accessibility feature turned on, a hearing person was unable to hear the footsteps because the generator blocked the sound of the footsteps from being heard, so, because the footsteps can't be heard, i get no visual indicator, and i think the survivor is not there and i walk away.
How exactly is this giving the hearing impaired person some kind of advantage?
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3431476#Comment_3431476
But that's already skill thing too. Acting on the sound, discerning what was background noise and what's sound of interest. Some people can only track grunts of pain while others can track silent footsteps. Slowvaults also makes brief faint sound (super strong thing for spirit), that can be used in chase by all killers.
If your idea is to make these things accessibility thing, then why not make an accessibility feature that will vault/not vault a window for me or change direction by killer's behavior? It's also just an accessibility feature to equalize my slower reflexes compared to quicker players and why should I be disadvantaged.
Right after this one someone might argue, that he can't come up with good mind games compared to others, because he is not smart enough and demand accessibility feature for that one - all in name of inclusion of all people no metter the IQ.
I hope you get my point by last 2 paragraphs - there's one thing in alleviating peoples disadvanteges and there's another with asking the game to be played for you by demanding perfect help.
So ######### deaf people then? They just shouldn't play killer?
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3432937#Comment_3432937
Ah, okay, so you only define it as tunnelling if the killer is camping.
I see.
If you have time to do something, you aren't being tunneled. Its that simple.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3432052#Comment_3432052
So what's it work against? Tunnelling, or camping?
A little bit of both. But again, i ask you, define tunneling.
If you define tunneling as:
- The killer immediately goes for you all the time and stays near you to go directly after you after the unhook.
Sure, but i'm assuming you will define tunneling as:
- I was unhooked and ran away to go heal and the killer ran toward my direction.
As tunneling, but the reality is, it is not, because you had time to heal, so you were not being tunneled.
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@Krazzik said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3431714#Comment_3431714
Correct but if you aren't a good looper it doesn't really matter. Most survivors aren't good loopers and so hate getting tunneled and want something to stop it completely.
Right, but if you aren't a good looper, what is left. I guess they could try stealthing? They could also run the "i suck at looping build" Lucky Break + Overcome + Inner Healing + Small Game/flex (i like small game to find totems easier). Find a totem quick, do it, killer finds you, and hits you, you overcome away and you make no marks, you break line of sight and just beeline to a locker. I find it works pretty well for making the killer stop chasing you.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3431865#Comment_3431865
So let me ask you this: If you have to map it out exactly like a normal chase, what difference is the BT making, exactly? What benefit is it to the survivor?
Its making it so you don't go down instantly, so the killer still has to down you and you get a proper chase.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3431805#Comment_3431805
So it's on the survivor to know where all the pallets are and know their state and time it out properly and then it'll only work against 110 killers, since 115s can just cut you off.
Oh, and 110 killers will probably not be deterred by a pallet.
No, what a great boon, I can't imagine why killers don't just continue to hard tunnel against such a terrible drawback as having to wait ten seconds before the next down.
"So it's on the survivor to know where all the pallets are and know their state"
I mean, yeah. It's the way they defend themselves from the killer. Do you just mindlessly wander around in a chase? Its up to you to figure out where to run to, the survivors dictate the chase and where it goes, not the killer.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3431722#Comment_3431722
What killer cannot count to ten? Basekit BT did absolutely nothing to resolve the problem.
In 10 seconds you can't get to a pallet when you are moving 5% slower than a killer? Even with that 10 seconds, 110% movement speed gets you 44 meters of distance. Maps are less than 128 meters squared. So unless you are tucked away in a corner of the map in a dead zone, there is plenty you can do.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3431722#Comment_3431722
I read the first three words of your comment then stopped. The rest just doesn’t matter at all. And I’m not playing your game. You’re moving the goalpost.
I like the part where you ignored the part that proved you wrong. Basekit BT doesn't PREVENT tunneling, it punishes the killer for doing it. There are also plenty of perks that are very good against it that you can use. But please, continue to ignore the point and prove me right even more.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3431694#Comment_3431694
Basekit BT doesn’t stop tunneling at all. During the Gen regress META, when survivors had basekit BT, killers still tunneled extremely efficiently.
Define "tunnel" this is where the problem is survivors think tunneling is going after them when they are doing anything but generators.
But if the killer is hard tunneling you, explain to me how getting 50 meters of between the basekit BT and getting hit isn't punishing the killer from tunneling you? Meanwhile the other survivors work on gens. If you can't loop and are bad at the game so you go down super quick that is on YOU. Basekit BT gives you plenty of time to get to a loop before the killer can down you again.
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@Krazzik said:
If the killer is tunneling and proxy camping then OTR and DH don't actually help you. The killer will hit you right after the unhook so you're in deep wound and now those perks aren't gonna do anything.
DS is certainly better but you HAVE to go down like AT a safe loop because otherwise the killer will just down you again right after.
Also I do still see people using exhaustion perks about as often as before, it's just now there's more Lithe and SB and much less DH.
OTR by definition is to give you a long timer of deep wound. The basekit BT also gives you endurance and 110% movement speed, and you get a speed boost when getting hit. If you can't get to another loop with 10 seconds of moving at 150% movement speed for 3 seconds and then 110 for 7 more, you are doing something wrong. During that time you should be able to move a full 50 meters of distance. Based on that you should be able to move to any place you want on the map if you are in the middle of it before the killer can reach you.
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@TheycallmeLix said:
Lately people never bring anti-tunnel perks or exhaustion perks anymore and it’s getting annoying cuz they are the mostly getting tunneled out of the game immediately. I always have DS and Dead Hard in my build, and let me tell you that DS is still really good. Nobody expects DS anymore and that 3 sec is not that bad actually. I’m sorry if you are getting tunneled, but if you don’t bring anti-tunnel perks in your games, you deserve to get tunneled out cuz you should know by now that most Killers these days camp and tunnel, and it’s to buy your team some time to do the gens while the Killer is trying to tunnel you out of the game.
DS and OTR are still pretty good, i'd argue OTR is better. And survivors who complain about getting tunneled but not running one of these is mind boggling. If you don't like it, just run a single perk, and you'll be fine. If you have time to do something else, and you lose DS/OTR, then you aren't getting tunneled.
DH is not an anti-tunnel perk, it actually encourages tunneling and has even before its nerf. If i saw someone use dead hard, the best strategy was actually to tunnel them directly off the hook, hit them so they get deep wounds, and then continue chasing, now you only have an injured survivor with no dead hard, because the dead hard does nothing in deep wound. So i wouldn't lump this one with the other 2.
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@Firellius said:
Can't address gen speeds without majorly buffing camping/tunnelling, so it's not likely to happen.
Tunneling has already been addressed from the basekit BT, 10 seconds, moving at 110% movement speed and being immune to hits or getting a speed boost is plenty of time to get to another loop. And if you suck at looping thats a you problem. Camping is going to be addressed in a later update as they already mentioned with the new anti-camping mechanic.
So can we address the gen speeds now?
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3430974#Comment_3430974
It's all in the implementation.
If you already heart it, then there's no difference (with exception to precision, I play spirit quite some and have good headset - and I can in some extreme cases still misplace survivor sometimes by even 5m radius from real position). The problem is, that the implementation would need to carefully discern when to give the warning and when not to. For example - it's very hard to hear any footsteps next to half-repaired generator - the only thing you can hear is grunts of pain. The same thing applies to active boon. Or destroyed hex (this one is the reason why I dropped plaything on spirit - you wouldn't believe how many chases I lost because of cleansed hex at the wrong time). During chase, you basically don't hear anything. And if you are not really close, you also don't hear anything.
Meaning - it might be too hard to implement in a way where this would be fair to all players (survivors for not being screwed over by huge generic and universal killer buff (making it absolutely NOT an accessibility feature) and killer for it to actually be beneficial). For very same reason Onryo got recent buff for survivor accessibility to not turn on until her lullaby is actually loud enough.
If you can "hear" something but only "barely" then that is simply about how good of hearing you have, which is an accessibility problem, not some "skill" you can learn and hone. Because someone who is hard of hearing won't hear it, but someone else who has good hearing will hear it.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3430691#Comment_3430691
This is true, but a pin-point notification would be too much. It would have to be quite vague. Because even while you hear a Survivor on the other side of the wall, you wont know their exact location. However, with sounds being directional in this case, a visual indicator would point to them.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3430771#Comment_3430771
The thing is, if it would be like the visual terror radius, it would be an improvement to having nothing, but it would not be compareable in usefulness to the survivor equivalent.
Because as Survivor, if you are in the Terror Radius, you will start looking around. And with the visual TR players get the information to start looking around. However, this would not really be useful as Killer. If I get a notification that a survivor sound (obviously there are other sounds like Generators as well, but lets not include those) was done nearby, looking around would not give me any more information and probably just be a waste of time.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3431017#Comment_3431017
Yeah, this would work. But it would be more vague than the information people without hearing issues would be getting, but I think this is the best that can be done without the feature being OP.
Obviously sounds like Generators can be more clear with the indicator (because the Killer can see Gens anyway), but having such a vague indicator that the Killer knows the general direction of the Survivor but not their exact location could work.
But i DO know the exact location. If you can PHYSICALLY hear a person on the other side of the wall, you KNOW where they are. If you don't know EXACTLY where there are, it is simply because your hearing is not good enough or because the sound wasn't loud enough. If it is the former that is precisely the point of creating accessibility features, for the latter, these features can be built in a way to give only general information JUST LIKE THE HEARTBEAT they just made. Where the heart beat only kicks in after a certain sound threshold that you can hear.
The same can be done with the visual indicators for killer, by having indicators that point more clearly where the survivor is based on the sound, or less clearly if you only "barely" heard it.
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@KingFieldShipper said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3430899#Comment_3430899
Aven literally said it in their post, which is what I was agreeing to in the first place
"Terror Radius is not directional while Survivor sounds are directional (which is logical, since they are emitted by the Survivor itself). So if you would get directional queues where a Survivor is, it would be a huge buff and every Killer player would just turn it on instantly, because they get a clear indicator of the exact position of the Survivor."
I feel like your post reads as you white knighting, tbh, and I felt like I had to give my two cents that i agree with them, as someone who has perspective, and many of us (we are not a monolith obviously) because you said "But you are thinking about this as a person without a hearing issue."
Go ahead and accuse me of white knighting again. As someone who also has hearing problems, i find that astounding.
Secondly, you still haven't answered the question. How EXACTLY does me physically HEARING the survivor to my left, on the other side of a wall and be able to pin point where they are because of that, differ in ANY way, to getting a visual indicator that i "heard" the survivor, on the other side of the wall, to my left?
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3430899#Comment_3430899
Wouldn't it affect mindgames? It'd be like a permanent aura reading. Survivor wouldn't even be able to leave the tile as the killer would know exactly where they are
Again, you are missing the point. You are thinking it is going to show exactly where they are all the time, but it only does that, if you already knew where they were from their sounds to begin with. That is how it works. I just don't understand how people keep thinking its going to give anyone any more information than they already have now, the difference is people who are hearing impaired will be able to actually play killer.
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@jamally093 said:
What I mean is let's say the game ending or your playing killer and are half way through and you get the usually "nice camping,tunnel, ect" kind of stuff how do you deal with it?
For me simple I stopped doing the whole argue back since it made no sense why argue back it's a waste of time. So I usually do the simple if the killer is camping I'll complain but never message no reason for it but if I get a message most of the time I just smile and basically just say "that's nice" and done.
So how do you deal with toxicity.
You turn off the chat. Pretty simple.
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@KingFieldShipper said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3430691#Comment_3430691
I am almost deaf in one of my ears, and I agree with Aven fwiw.
And yet you fail to describe exactly what the issue is with my statement. How exactly are those different? If i can physically hear a survivor is on the other side of a wall, why can't i also have a visual indicator showing that?
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3430662#Comment_3430662
The problem is that you cannot just compare those two because they are not even compareable in the game without any hearing issues.
Terror Radius is not directional while Survivor sounds are directional (which is logical, since they are emitted by the Survivor itself). So if you would get directional queues where a Survivor is, it would be a huge buff and every Killer player would just turn it on instantly, because they get a clear indicator of the exact position of the Survivor.
Sadly I dont think that it is really possible to give Killers such a accessibility feature, except it is either really useless or OP.
But you are thinking about this as a person without a hearing issue. If i hear a survivor to my left, i know they are to my left. How is that any different than getting a visual indicator showing that there is a survivor to my left?
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@luvcraft said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3430228#Comment_3430228
one person each, all in the first 30 seconds of the match?
Without perks or a video its hard to tell. It probably was longer than 30 seconds. But assuming it was. It could have been hyperfocus + toolbox + BNP on 3 survivors.
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I swear that is what i saw, like i said, checked it multiple times. Must have crossed over to a new universe. Anyway, it seems that he isn't tied to the chapter based on other information that was released with a simple google search.
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Weird, i read it as June the first time, i actually watched i multiple times and checked the date multiple times. Did they maybe change the video at some point?
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3429724#Comment_3429724
True, but the date/timeframe looks like a Midchapter-Paragraph. And I highly doubt they would put a Killer in a Midchapter-Paragraph.
I think he is part of the chapter. They said "learn more June 5th", Chapters generally release about every 3 months. The last chapter was 03-07-2022. That lines up with June 5th. The last few years we had chapters release on:
- 06-07-2022
- 06-14-2021
- 06-15-2020
Ash and Mikaela released around a month after a chapter in between 2 chapters. And we are a bit past that timeline for it to be June 5th. That comes too close to the chapter.
So here is my theory:
I suspect that he is part of the chapter. And they say "more details June 5th", which is a Monday. They will announce the PTB for the next day and give more details about his character. Which as others have pointed out, he might be in the DBD movie, and not actually be "Nic Cage" literally, but the character he plays in the movie. And that this trailer for him is mostly a teaser because we don't know details about the movie yet. Because of the likely movie tie in, it needs to wait for the 5th to be announced due to timelines of other things. Because of the movie and other shenanigans, they probably also need to delay the chapter a bit to make sure everything lines up on this timeline to be part of when more details about the movie are released.
Also, for big shock value, unironically he has a shot at being the killer because they would be very surprising.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
This falls under my "Things I never thought would happen".
I dont care for Nicolas Cage, but he will probably come with a super-strong Perk to give people an incentive to buy a Survivor-only Paragraph.
Who said he's going to be a survivor?
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@Rovend said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3427128#Comment_3427128
And i would strongly disagree to a instant bleed out the moment you are downed, but after 90-120sec on the floor i believe we are way past the point were dying could be considered rage quitting.
Seriously, like 95% of matches where i have been slugged for half my bleed bar are the killer griefing me because they know i cant do anything for 4 minutes in that situation.
It's stupid to believe that after almost 7 years of dbd nothing can be done to address this.
What i never understood is why people dislike being slugged. While slugged you can still crawl around at least. On the hook you can do nothing but wait for your team.
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@Rovend said:
I cant understand why the devs cant allow a survivor to bleed out instantly after a certain time has passed on the floor.
Seriously, like 99% of situations where a surv has been on the floor for 2 min it is either for griefing or in a slug game you are very likely to die anyway.
Adding an option to die after 90-120 sec wouldnt hurt anyone.
Because we already have an epidemic of people DCing and/or killing themselves on the hook to avoid the DC. We don't need more ways for survivors to rage quit out of the match and screw over their teammates.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3422880#Comment_3422880
You’re very eager to feel persecuted.
I'm really not, i literally started playing trapper a couple days ago to burn through my BP offerings with him, and 3 matches in a row this exact scenario happened, then on the 4th match, i got someone in basement and they immediately killed themselves on hook, and then i was told i was a "zzzz boring killer"
So i dunno man.
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@WeakestNurseMain said:
I'm gonna take you through a thought experiment here:
Imagine if the top 3 killers got gutted, their powers and add-ons were heavily nerfed and they ended up on the lower tiers.
The game would fall apart for about a week, killers who had become accustomed to the stronger killers would suddenly be unable to keep up with strong SWF's, and for a brief period experienced SWF's would get non-stop easy wins. However, after the meta settles, and the new top 3 characters arrive(Pyramid Head, Wesker, Artist) adopt a more tunneling and camp heavy play style, the game will more or less go back to normal.
However, imagine if instead, SWF got regression penalties when with a party, and killers got buffs when survivors were partied up.
For lack of better terms, it would be a f***ing s***show.
Weaker teams would be unable to keep up, stronger teams would struggle to 2E's, weaker killers would become strong, and stronger killers would be unstoppable, it would be ridiculous.
The dev's are correct in making the tilt towards survivors, I'm a killer main and I agree with it, there's no version of this game that could survive without killers being at a slight disadvantage, the only thing we can really ask for is that it feels good to chase with every killer.
Additionally, it isn't simply a 1 for 1 issue. You can nerf top tier SWF and survivors without actually nerfing average survivors as a whole. This video sums it up great at the timestamp i linked talking about the BASE JUMPER item in Team Fortress 2. But the whole video is worth a good watch:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1p42KtZOCw&t=203sTop tier survivors and SWF abuse crazy loops, like shack going into a jungle gym going into cow tree going into another jungle gym going into a great filler tile etc. This type of thing should be nerfed. Shack should be nerfed (maybe so its like the one on dead dog). Crazy main buildings like asylum that have literal infinites without entity blocking need to be fixed.
Doing these things won't hurt the average solo queue survivor, because they aren't abusing these things to begin with. They are busy predropping the shack pallet immediately 3 seconds into the game and still getting hit through it anyway.
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@WeakestNurseMain said:
I'm gonna take you through a thought experiment here:
Imagine if the top 3 killers got gutted, their powers and add-ons were heavily nerfed and they ended up on the lower tiers.
The game would fall apart for about a week, killers who had become accustomed to the stronger killers would suddenly be unable to keep up with strong SWF's, and for a brief period experienced SWF's would get non-stop easy wins. However, after the meta settles, and the new top 3 characters arrive(Pyramid Head, Wesker, Artist) adopt a more tunneling and camp heavy play style, the game will more or less go back to normal.
However, imagine if instead, SWF got regression penalties when with a party, and killers got buffs when survivors were partied up.
For lack of better terms, it would be a f***ing s***show.
Weaker teams would be unable to keep up, stronger teams would struggle to 2E's, weaker killers would become strong, and stronger killers would be unstoppable, it would be ridiculous.
The dev's are correct in making the tilt towards survivors, I'm a killer main and I agree with it, there's no version of this game that could survive without killers being at a slight disadvantage, the only thing we can really ask for is that it feels good to chase with every killer.
They should separate the modes, plain and simple. Make it so there is a "solo queue" and a "team queue" option. In "team queue" you must have 4 survivors, in "solo queue" you can only queue up with one other survivor, and the matchmaking sets it up so only 1 duo of the 4 is possible.
Then balance the game differently in those 2 modes.
This is no different than say, CS:GO where they have a "ranked mode" and a "casual mode" and various other game modes where the game is literally balanced differently. In casual for example, you get armor and defuse kits for free, and you get a little bit more money. In ranked mode, money is more tightly controlled, and you get nothing for free.
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@brysoles said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3423572#Comment_3423572
Ah yes I have to stay in a game when the spawn point ruins it for me so I don’t ruin the game for the other 3 players. Yes yes. Others having fun > me having fun. And never heard a single soul complaining about these things you say except camping and tunneling. But idc think what you want and be happy and proud about those hooks/kills without effort. Sorry for you if you thinks games like this are fun or skills. :-)
And I play killer more than survivor but I don’t have to hook someone who spawns next to me bcs 1: I’m sorry for that player and 2: Killer is the easiest ever. :-)
Like i said, childish.