Pulsar
Pulsar
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4014304#Comment_4014304
I'm curious what tweaks you have in mind here, can you go into more detail?
Elusive is the only one that needs some more changes, stuff that isn't simple number tweaks, so I'll start there.
Give it the Incapacitated effect as a placeholder. This prevents Item usage.
Remove auto-aim. Seriously, you shouldn't have auto-aim in the first place, but it shouldn't gravitate towards a Survivor who is intangible.
Hook Obscurement:
Keep the hook states counter, update the HUD immediately on unhook, but keep everything else. The HUD should always be accurate, and reward keeping an eye on things, but we don't need a dinner bell to sound and let people know to come back to hook.
Unique Hook Bonus:
20% Total Progress
15% Haste until a chase starts, keep the breaking pallet or damage state restrictions as well.
No changes to the info.
For the "too good for this treatment crowd":
20% Current Progress.
No Haste, No Info.
Seriously, they do not need much help.
Tunneling Penalties:
Survivor dies before the 5th hook; Survivors get a 30% Repair Speed Bonus.
If you do decide to tunnel someone out, gens become uninteractable until the Survivors need to complete one gen. Hefty punishment but not completely taking away hope from either side.
Slugging:
Get rid of Crawl and Recover, revert the speed changes. That's it. I would NOT have put this all in the same PTB.
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Nothing really left for me.
I've pushed for better optimization, which fell on deaf ears. I've watched the company make the game more and more predatory in its monetization. @Orion was right to leave during the NFT debacle, but I had hope it was a one-off. It wasn't, that was the standard.
I've pushed my own gameplay to the absolute limit as Killer, but what's the point in being skilled if the role is being made easier? The challenging and inherently more difficult role got made into something you can do blindfolded.
Most of my friends who I used to spend hours playing with have quit. Getting one good game a session sucks. It feels like a huge waste of time, and they'd rather spend it doing something consistently fun instead of occasionally fun. Why would we spend 6 hours on DBD hoping for a good match, when we could just play BF6 and have a blast?
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4014312#Comment_4014312
By that logic, reverting the PTB was a simple change that fixed the system.
And got us back to a system that was wildly and loudly hated, which by your own logic, means we MUST change it.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4014304#Comment_4014304
Incorrect. Considering the massive amount of backlash and negative feedback it got, minor changes absolutely would not have fixed the system.
If we based everything off of loudness of feedback, we'd have a very different game.
I did not say minor changes, I said simple.
They are not the same thing.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4014280#Comment_4014280
They needed way more than minor adjustments that could be quickly figured out. They were so far out of control, that they need massive reworks.
Very untrue.
Simple number tweaks would have fixed the system.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4014202#Comment_4014202
The phase 2 changes were completely out of control, and the people that thought they were fine as they were, are the real biased people.
I can’t even imagine being so survivor sided, to think the phase 2 changes would have been healthy for the game, if they went live as they were on the PTB.
They needed adjustments, which could've been tested on the PTB.
Instead, the screeching and crying won over, BHVR instantly pulled them, and I doubt we'll be seeing them for quite a long time.
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4013910#Comment_4013910
Did they play Laurie?
No, just Nurse.
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Used to run into @Sluzzy on occasion.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4013611#Comment_4013611
When people say S-tier killers should be nerfed, do you say "oh, we should keep S-tier killers the same, and bump everything else up to S-tier level"?
Because this is the same thing. If something is overperforming, the solution isn't to make everything else overperform too.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4013659#Comment_4013659
I never said to nerf them to the lowest survivor item. I said to nerf them so they aren't overwhelmingly better than some of the other items. We don't need to slippery slope this. There is a balance point where toolboxes and medkits are useful, but aren't massively better than some of the other items.
Keys and Maps shouldn't have to compete with overpowered addons like syringes.
First off, Killers arent items and cannot be balanced the same. There isn't a transitive property between two different roles.
Secondly, Fog Vials were a B-tier item. They were fun, but they weren't anywhere near strong. They were bugged, which hasnt been fixed to my knowledge, but not strong.
But as we saw with Self-Care, that doesn't stop BHVR from destroying those things.
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@DeBecker said:
Sad excuses. Even if they werent able to work on recolors, they still could have managed to make the rewards worth it. There are more options to reward players than just recolors (i dont even think of this as a proper reward, its one of the most "cheap" things to do to begin with and most of them look totally awful). So why trashing the rift with just minor bloodpoints? There would have been at least one other "cheap" option to give skins to the players: iri shards. But BVHR still refuses til now to give out decent amounts as reards though there are already thousands of skins to buy and one or two full sets per rift wouldnt make any difference to them in giving them out for "free" or not having them sold at all.
Theyre still just trolling their community at every possible chance, and most people still let them being fooled. Its a shame.
I'd like to say eventually people will learn but I kinda doubt it.
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Lots of talk of doing better, never actually doing better.
As the saying goes, same ######### different day.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
Fog vials should never have been introduced before medkit and toolbox reworks, because it's not fair for items to compete with overpowered addons like syringes.
The actual problem are the medkits and toolboxes, which needs major reworks like the maps and keys did, so that the medkits and toolboxes are closer in power to the other items.
No, I think the actual problem is that Fog Vials suck.
Making everything suck isn't really a solution lol
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@mecca said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4013405#Comment_4013405
I know it's very frustrating when a survivor is outplaying a killer. That's bad and obviously requires fixing.
Being able to have a jungle gym into Shack isnt outplaying.
Thats like saying you got outplayed by Trickster on Rotten Fields. Or that you got outplayed by PTB Twins.
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@mecca said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4013397#Comment_4013397
I don't see how reducing dead zones can be viewed as a wrong. But this is dead by daylight I always forget.
As I've said repeatedly, removing deadzones? Good!
Making every tile interconnected and totally messing up generation? Very bad!
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@mecca said:
I think people forget this is a PvP game and not a PvE game. Survivor has been pure ass to play a long time with survivors always having an incentive to play the game and killer queues being longer. In 2v8, you can't even play killer without being forced to play miserable ass survivor. Let's not forget that.
Two wrongs don't make a right.
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@SoGo said:
Dbd 2 would be the end of most players who have at least some financial restrictions.
I would NOT rebuy this game. Not even talking about DLCs.
What BHVR needs to do is stop churning out chapters like there's no tomorrow. Spread them out. You have time to fix bugs in-between them.
I think it's going to be very obvious during the middle of December/early January that the game will absolutely die without consistent chapter releases.
Even then, we've seen those sort of fade fast too.
They are in a damned-if-they-do damned-if-they-don't situation. They can't keep letting the game bloat, but they also can't take time and actually fix things. Even now, during a supposed Health Update, the game has only gotten worse since it started.
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@MashedBroccoli said:
ill trade you pallets for the anti tunnel anti slug update pick one or the other.
I'll take anti tunnel with adjustments for 600 Alex.
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@Defnotmeghead said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4012604#Comment_4012604
The problem was that many older maps just didnt have ANY pallets. And really, the pallet spread is fine. Pallet count doesnt matter much if most pallets are unsafe pallets.
There are more pallets per map, but on average, the average strength of pallets on map has been reduced still. You only "need" to break like 7 pallets per game. That used to be 12. Pallet count used to be 14-16. With double pallet tiles, that count is close to 18-20. So despite total pallet count increasing by 6, the amount you need to kick has been nearly halved.Current pallet spread?
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To be fair, I think most people were taking a wait and see approach.
We've certainly seen.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
Borrowed Time??? Oh my god that's a DBD reference!
Real.
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@CLHL said:
They could start by eliminating random generation. It really doesn't do anything but cause problems. It was fine when there were only a few maps, but that's no longer the case. If the maps were always the same, it would be easier to fix the strong and weak areas.
It would also contribute to the game being massively stale and same-y, but that's a different issue I guess.
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4012835#Comment_4012835
So S tier killers shouldn't exist? Because 3 of them were released in the last year and the other 2 haven't been fixed despite ruling the game for far longer.
Yes.
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4012831#Comment_4012831
Old Cowshed sounds FAIR vs krasue, ghoul, drac, blight, and nurse
But quite unfair to the majority of Killers.
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4012824#Comment_4012824
Just going to add that killers aren't exactly in the same state as 2018 either. The majority of the roster laughs at a filler pallet that can't be chained into anything else nearby. Not to mention a plethora of tracking and regression perks that add up to much stronger builds than 2018. And all the survivor perks that were meta in 2018 nerfed.
If all i can do is play 50/50 at a filler pallet and pray to hit validation for a stun that doesnt also injure me, what skill expression do survivors have?
There's a big difference between, "Hey, we added more fillers" to "Hey, we screwed up tile generation and now tiles chain like its Old Cowshed"
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4012804#Comment_4012804
Im just curious what you propose as buffs for survivor? As it stands the only changes that weren't protested have been ways to abandon matches sooner after losing. We couldn't get anti-slug/tunnel after 10 years and we can't have more map resources after years of empty deadzones. We also can't nerf overpowered S tier killers.
Is it just the implementation of the changes? Because survivor is not in a good place and I was under the impression you broadly agreed that killer is too easy.
I was for the anti-tunnel changes being adjusted, not scrapped.
Mindlessly adding tiles to maps isn't a solution.
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4012801#Comment_4012801
If they actually revert the whole changes, fine. No harm no foul. I dont think the extra pallets are as big a deal as youre making them though. You're admitting its not effecting you winning matches too. Winning chases because 1 pallet spawned in the circus carnival isnt exciting as killer. I'd rather have to actually outplay a tile instead of break pallet, get free hit because its a mile to the next one.
Crazy window into Shack.
Good rock pallet into Shack.
Jungle gym into Prenn tile into jungle gym
Pallet into pallet into jungle gym.
Different Yamoaka. Pallet into Shack into jungle gym, i think.
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4012801#Comment_4012801
If they actually revert the whole changes, fine. No harm no foul. I dont think the extra pallets are as big a deal as youre making them though. You're admitting its not effecting you winning matches too. Winning chases because 1 pallet spawned in the circus carnival isnt exciting as killer. I'd rather have to actually outplay a tile instead of break pallet, get free hit because its a mile to the next one.
Not much outplay at double pallets, just gotta break it. Now repeat that for the whole map.
It isnt affecting me because I've been mostly playing Krasue and because even when I haven't been playing her, I am perfectly capable of begrudgingly dealing with it.
Not everyone has had the....luxury of playing in 2018 DBD. I thought we were past defending this sort of stuff.
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4012779#Comment_4012779
You frequently cite your own kill rate at 80-90%. Has this change affected that? If so, to what degree?
If not, how do you propose survivors are supposed to handle matches vs you with fewer pallets, nerfed main buildings, weaker gym tiles, and shrunken maps?
Hasn't impacted me, besides frustration. However, I don't think there's many people left from when there were double pallets or jungle gym into Shack, so newer players probably don't know how to deal with it. They shouldn't have to deal with it, because we all agreed that long-wall into Shack was dumb and that double pallets were dumb. Well, everyone except Sluzzy.
They'd be getting the same result. I'm still gonna win lol.
As for in general, literally just remove that part of the update. Take it back to how it was before. This didn't even fix deadzones, it just added more pallets to every map except the one's that needed it. Haddonfield is still ass and Coldwind still spawns huge deadzones in the corn.
if they can't make it so that pallet generation as a whole isn't affected, then don't push it to Live.
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Because the game cant handle more than two zombies, how is it gonna render water
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@Cassiopeiae said:
Is this why everyone is just playing S tiers now? Getting pretty boring.
I'd much rather see the extra pallets removed if it means more killer variety.
I'm sure it's part of the reason. I was trying to play Wraith, and it was…difficult.
With so many pallets, it is difficult to play strategically as a Killer who cares about pallets.
Now your Ghoul's Krasue's Nurse's and Blight's probably don't care at all, but everyone else does.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4012652#Comment_4012652
Yeah, it's like they didn't consider individual realms or even single maps (like they should have) and just turned the dial up across the board.
And we know they have metrics for this kind of thing.
I am very sure they just turned up the dial, as it were.
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Less deadzones? Good!
More fillers? Good!
Filler into jungle gym into Shack? Very bad!
The tile chaining is the real issue here. Having a trillion fillers has messed up the generation I think.
AND THERES STILL DEADZONES.
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@Alicia_Tried6041 said:
What are survivors supposed to use to keep themselves alive? First its shrink maps now this?
?
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@Nazzzak said:
I dunno if it's just my imagination but I swear there's still deadzones popping up anyway
It seems like the maps that had deadzones still get them
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@Rogue11 said:
Ive only noticed strong fillers on macmillan and crotus, but those maps also had the new trash replacement for jungle gym tiles and had several main buildings weakened as well as tiles straight up removed. Meanwhile, maps like coldwind and borgo i barely notice any difference.
If theyre reverting the pallet changes they damn well better revert all the killer favored parts too. I swear if we get another QoL update where only the killer part stays im done.
Yamoaka was terrible, specifically Sanctum.
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@tes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4012457#Comment_4012457
I still hope to truly master Executioner and win against some pub scrim team on him. Maybe play some comp match even. And making a video with collections of my journey to p100 . Maybe I’m a little bit overobsessed with this killer, as well as with my Rebecca. But I really hope on it’s own my gameplay can be impressive
Dunno if he still does it, but Tofu used to do scrim nights.
Was pretty fun when I participated.
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@Rudjohns said:
I'm struggling to play survivor
holy
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killer stretched res
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wonder if they just ai generated the whole rift.
Regardless, the drop in quality and the push towards more monetization has been evident this last year.
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Truly is a wonder why BHVR cannot just admit they messed up and revert something.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4011645#Comment_4011645
Don't @ me over comments I have nothing to do with, thanks.
lmao
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@TheGoon224 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4011632#Comment_4011632
The Skull Merchant
She's fine. Unpopular opinion, but I've actually played as her and won something like 15 matches in a row.
She's definitely not the best, but the people acting like she's unplayable are ridiculous.
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@Sava18 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4011351#Comment_4011351
I promise you, if the devs are smart and work with competent people within the dbd community they can make everything bar soft griefing able to penalized.
If people over 50 hours of game time are overall going down in less than 15 seconds reputedly, suspension. This negates griefing by walking up to the killer or suicidal body blocking while protecting new players. It would record that behavior over many games as to not hurt people having a funny interaction with the killer every 5 games. Same with afking, the system can be tuned to after a player has a decent chunk of time for them not to afk under hook without suspension. Luck offerings can be joutright removed. There are ways and they are truly necessary for this games long term health.
As others have said, survivors griefing each other actually leads to a repetitious cycle of survivors getting more frustrated. You can address the issues but the mentality will remain, one that's been around for a decade. With the communities current mind set you could outright remove tunneling, camping, slugging, every S tier killer and add the ability for survivors to ban 1 killer each, there would still be a 15%+ dc/suicide rate. So both things need to be addressed.
@OnryosTapeRentals there's the call for intent policing I was talking about lol
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other than removing leech on hook, which is good, these changes seem inconsequential, just like the last ones.
It is still extremely easy to infect and Head Form is still the easiest anti-loop in the game.
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@Sava18 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4011167#Comment_4011167
I will always bring up how in league, the game a ton of people think has a worse community than dbd this isn't a problem. You'll watch someone blame someone completely, say they're going to run it down and afk, then they don't. They go mid, they go side, the go farm and then most of the time show up to fights too. You can't leave the game, you can't afk, you can't type very harshly at all anymore, you can't hard int anymore. Best you can do is soft grief and that's more work than actually playing, so people actually play. That's the key line, when it's more work to leave/grief the game people will play it out. They'll go sit on a gen.
The "they'll just grief the game in a different way" has always been conjecture because we really have never had a decent period in dbd where people were forced to stay in the game in all forms.
Even if the devs fix that "root causes" that everyone has been saying since I joined this forum, the mentality is so ingrained in survivors they will keep doing it. Most of the time people bring up survivors dcing on this forum it's because they are doing it over nothing, not because of whatever semi understandable thing happened to them that game.
Is there any real reason not to add in these penalties and also fix the issues people have with it? So we punished tunneling, slugging, camping and whatever other reason, can we also put the penalties in too? I see 0 reason not to.
If you do reply please do not say but this is an assym.
But this is asymm.
For real though, that's been my whole point. Just punishing doesn't work, just rewarding doesn't work. Do both, there's no reason not to.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4011297#Comment_4011297
"We're loosening penalties" people will go absolutely feral and DC en masse
You've contradicted your own points repeatedly so far, as @tes has already pointed out but this one is easily the most egregious. You've said that they can't (in the hypothetical scenario) loosen the DC penalities because everyone will just DC. Which is the exact thing that is literally happening right now because they lowered the DC penalties several patches back. If loosening a penalty would encourage DCing, then why can you not accept that raising it would discourage it? This is straight doublethink.
The DCing is happening because there's no proper penalty. That's it. Not having a proper penalty in place is allowing players with unsportsmanlike attitudes to abandon any matches they want for any reason. That's IT. This huge wave of DCing started when they dropped the penalties. Penalise them properly again and it will stop. All of this talk of "longstanding frustrations" or whatever else is just an intentional attempt to muddy the waters and make them seem deep, when it's actually incredibly simple. Low/no penalties = DCs. Penalties = No DCs. That's it.
This point is just moronic, and I don't think you really mean it. Of course it matters what causes it. Of course it matters why people are frustrated. Whether or not you think it's justified is down to personal opinion at the end of the day, but saying it doesn't matter why is just silly.
I wholeheartedly stand by what I said. I do not care whatsoever about the cause of it. The feelings of people who consistently abandon their teammates in a PvP game do not matter at all to me. I literally don't think it's worth listening to anything they have to say about the game because they're going out of their way to cause it immense harm. These players don't get to do everything they can to sabotage a role and in the same breath complain about how bad the role is. You can call me moronic for that but it doesn't change my opinion.
From some of your other comments it sounds like you don't actually play the game anymore. And with that context, your point makes more sense because you don't actually have to deal with the behaviour that you're defending. And that is how this comes across to me. There's nothing that could reasonably qualify "I am against further punishment" when it comes to repeated DCing for me. The end of your sentence does not justify the start and only serves to enable bad behaviour IMO.
Of course you're perfectly entitled to that opinion, but I think it's a harmful one. But I'm sure you'd say the same thing about mine so I guess we're at an impasse.
Because I was under the impression, since there haven't been any patch notes and I don't play Survivor, that the system was the same as the one that was implemented during the last patch.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4011328#Comment_4011328
Well, no. Because you can get multiple free DCs and only then do the too-short penalties start to kick in.
Revert them to how they used to work and then they'll actually get hit with the penalties.
Either you've gotten extremely unlucky, or they are getting hit with DC penalties.
A 33% DC Rate, even with two DC's, should suggest people do eat the penalties. They might be too short, but they should still be hitting them.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4011294#Comment_4011294
And yet we have people in here claiming they see DC's in a third of their matches, iirc.
I am experiencing this in around a third of my games. AND I'll even give you some of the reecpts. My last 10 games as per the official DbD stats website:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/DBBKQ6T5JI57/image.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/3PVSLVHR8S5P/image.png
Wasn't doubting you, just pointing out that if people are DC'ing so often, then they are getting hit with the penalty.
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4011294#Comment_4011294
I DCed my last session (pours gasoline over my head in anticipation) and it was free. I haven't done it twice in a row per 20 trials so I can't confirm on the frequency at all, but I know at least one is free.
I have no desire to test it, which is why I've been taking people's word for it. I was just curious if it was announced anywhere like the last set of changes.