PiiFree
PiiFree
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@AlwaysInAGoodShape said:
@PiiFreeA Camper should never be able to pip, therefore should never be able to rank up and therefore should never be a problem for higher skilled players.
I'll leave what "should" up to you (:
I view camping solely as a fun issue, not a balance issue.How would your solution handle "self-unhook attempts"? Are you able to unhook yourself 6 times until you finally die? Can you just unhook 5 times (wish me luck daddy) and then wait for an unlimited amount of time for the unhook and repeat the process on next hook?
Undecided on that. A little bit of experimenting or wrestling with the idea should give us the answer.
This would promote gen rush and slugging
Slugging is dead, remember. (Check Green Headline 2, Orange headline: slugging. It also doesn't promote gen-rushing barely any more as a killer leaving the hooks causes genrushing. Not only that, but with the talked about balance compensations, such gen-rushes wouldn't be as effective as they are now.
There would be no pressure in unhooking anymore
Is there pressure on survivors when survivors are slugged? If the answer is yes, then your statement is wrong. The timer when it comes down to slugging is also mostly irrelevant.
What would happen to perks like Monstrous Shrine?
I remember someone coming up with an ingenious suggestion of turning Monstrous Shrine into a perk that gives you a buff that repeats itself for every-time you hang someone in the basement.
It's not really about how much pressure slugging applies, it's about how much pressure "infinite hooks" would apply compared to it. You spend 10-15 seconds picking someone up and bringing them to a hook, risk getting DS'd / bodyblocked for next to no progression unless you quickly take them out. It's even faster to unhook someone compared to healing a slugged up.
Slugging is a strat to stall the game and prolong repair times. Tthere is pressure when slugging someone because it doesn't take you 10-15 seconds to run to a hook to achieve "something". You can immediately continue to pressure other survivors while forcing one of the remaining ones to go and heal up the slugged guy sooner or later. In every case, 3 survivors will be busy and if not, they risk getting 4x slugged.
IMO, getting 4x slugged in the ultimate confession of failure for Survivors unless it's a Nurse doing so.
It would require further testing but just from theorycrafting, I don't think that change would overall improve the gaming experience for both sides. Survivors would hang on the hook for 5 gens finally waiting for that unhook while Killers would have no way of securing a kill in the endgame.
It would effectively create a new "hook standoff" where the last 3 survivors would hang around the last hooked survivor waiting for the Killer to make a mistake and vice-versa.
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Camping only ever yields successful match results (pips) when the Survivors fail to do their objective.
A Camper should never be able to pip, therefore should never be able to rank up and therefore should never be a problem for higher skilled players.
How would your solution handle "self-unhook attempts"? Are you able to unhook yourself 6 times until you finally die? Can you just unhook 5 times (wish me luck daddy) and then wait for an unlimited amount of time for the unhook and repeat the process on next hook?
What would happen to perks like Monstrous Shrine? And how would that solution help regarding balance? This would promote gen rush and slugging, two things no one likes to deal with. There would be no pressure in unhooking anymore, survivors could just keep pushing through gens and once they're all done, go for the unhook(s) one after another.
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Yes, they reduced the maximum distance the stalking works and they also removed the ability to stalk multiple survivors at the same time. They also adjusted the Survivors hitbox when crouching and many other hitxboxes of obstacles, so now it can be harder to stalk survivors during a loop, for example, as they can easily avoid it.
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@fluffybunny said:
Well. XD Actually, the topic started as a complaint about diction and evolved into what we're talking about because "camping" and "tunneling" are trigger words apparently. I don't think a good portion of who have posted so far actually read what I wrote and just assumed I was talking about the act of tunneling and camping in general. I honestly want what's best for everyone with those kinds of things and am generally pretty weak in chases unless I have a good rhythm. I have my moments.What you described is more of a "great" match. I see two people escaping as a good, one person as poor, and everyone dying as awful, though I also really like points and if I get a lot, idc what happens in the end.
While it may take a while to get the first, it's a snowball affect especially if you have perks to help with finding people such as BBQ. I suppose I'm just different with how I play as I see a pip and a lot of BP as a win and not necessarily a kill. I want something challenging and I'd rather take the threat to the survivors rather than wait for the survivors to come to me.
So you rate the match based on bloodpoints and pips instead of actual gameplay experience? You're a grinder-type of player in that case, you want to gather a virtual currency as efficient as possible and your actual experience is not at priority. I'm pretty sure that mindset applies to a lot of Survivors, they rate the match based on bloodpoints, pips and escapes instead of actual experience during the match. For Killers, I suppose that's the other way around. Our "fun" is directly bound to Survivors because almost everything Killers do requires interaction with Survivors.
An interaction with a survivor can be good or bad, this solely depends on the Survivors playstyle and the Killers ability to deal with it. For looping - depending on the Killer - there are not a lot of ways to deal with it more efficient. It's all based on facts, more or less the difference in movement speed defines how long a loop will go on. No mindgames involved, no skill involved and the only thing that can prolong or shorten a chase are actual mistakes of one side.
This is a very generic and boring playstyle for the Killer. It's like playing tag.
The interesting things are the mindgames, for example predicting the Survivors movements and cut their path or faking directions with red strain ect.
If I get a 4k double pip with 32k points but the whole match was basically a long "playing Tag" with no mindgames or anything interesting, that match was not fun. I was successful, that's for sure, but the experience was painful, boring and not fun at all.
For me, actual gameplay experience matters and when Survivors ruin it by looping and gen rushing, I see no reason why I should not camp or tunnel. The match is already ruined and I'm not asking for their mercy. Let's end this match as soon as possible so I can find players that actually want to have a fun match instead of just farming bloodpoints and gtfo.
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The whole point of "doing gens and escape" is to make the Killer DEPIP and therefore push them out of RED RANKS so you NEVER have to deal with them again.
By feeding them more hits & hooks, you're rewarding this playstyle and allow them to pip, which is exactly why camping, even in red ranks, can lead to pips for the killer. YOU reward them for it.
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@fluffybunny said:
@PiiFree said:
@fluffybunny said:
If you tunnel one person, pressure is on one person. Gen rushing is a thing often because of tunneling the survivor off of the hook and camping the survivor. If you go for a different person, that gives one person going for the save, one person on the hook, one person being chased, and one person on the gen. If you hang out by the hooked survivor, you typically have one person going for the save in an ideal situation. Survivors often make mistakes, especially in solo. Multiple people will attempt to go for the hook when only one person is really needed and that wastes a lot of time.Looping strong spots and taking the killer around is unpleasant, like tunneling. A lot of people choose not to loop like they choose not to teabag. It's one of the ways to shake off the killer, though, and many killers camp and tunnel. It's a two way street, dude. Saying "survivors don't care about the killer's fun" is a generalization. When I play survivor, I care if the killer has fun, too.
I will say sometimes efficient play is knowing when to get off the designated looper and go after one of the weaker gen jokey, though. You can still get the time waster out of their element later. Survivors can be really nasty, though. I've experienced it, too, as I'm someone who stands up for killers when they're being unfairly accused of something or calls out people when they do something crappy like DC for no reason. I'm not one to like DS, either, as generally the players are really weak despite being in high rank because most killers will avoid them.
As I said, I can only speak from my experience after roughly 2000 hours. I estimate that 99% of the Survivors in Rank 1 will loop. I can't remember the last time I saw a Survivor prematurely drop a pallet when they actually could've run around it 2 more times. If they can loop it, they will loop it. Same goes for windows.
With most Killers you have to chase a Survivor to down them, so you have to deal with looping sooner or later. That's the first initiator for toxicity in the match, you loop a Killer before even giving them the chance to play a "fair" match. Maybe they wouldn't tunnel or camp but because you decide to loop, you made them tunnel & camp?
Again, my experience as Rank 1 Killer and Survivor is that most if not all Survivors will loop by default, the Killers playstyle is irrelevant. Why? Why do Survivors loop (and therefore ruin the fun for Killers) and still expect Killers to care about their fun? That's the one question I want Survivor mains to answer.
Maybe you're one of those 1% of Survivors that don't loop even though they could, but you're a rarity then.
E: And that whole thing with "not pressuring gens" is bullshit. You can only chase one Survivor at a time and if you happen to play against 4 good loopers, you'll just find yourself running from one looper to another without getting anything done. You can only pressure survivors by hooking them, which requires you to go through the looping before.
Playing in the high ranks, I've seen people both jump into lockers when it was too late to block BBQ (and get grabbed out due to that) and people throw down pallets at a whim. I try to save pallets as most everyone I watch says it's a better idea so that no area is necessarily a dead zone, but I mess up half the time. I had a game where I fast vaulted over a pallet over and over 'cause I panicked (was trying to insta-heal someone on the ground and they moved, so I fast vaulted the pallet instead... they need to change it back to shift. It's so hard to heal people without them fidgeting). Everyone has their potato moments. It's just important to capitalize on the potato, whether than feeding into the good loops, etc.
I've never played killer at a higher rank, though, so I wouldn't be able to guess the amount of 4 man SWF you come across that all just gen rush and run you around, though. I only know my experience as someone who generally solos. When I do play with friends, we get tunneled and camped for playing together. I don't think that should be the reaction to that, but it's whatever.
What exactly is fun about killer if the chase isn't fun, though...? That's all the killer has, really, and I have fun in chases. It's about knowing when to dip and when to commit. Even the really good killer streamers say that, too.
I honestly don't think it's as bad as you're making it out to be. They nerfed infinites and took away the teleporting to the pallet thing (rightly so). They're also removed so many of the pallets. You say you've been playing for a long time, so you should know how much of an improvement they've made for killers, just to justify camping and tunneling on a whim 'cause the survivor might loop (which is easily punished: Don't respect pallets). I don't think camping and tunneling is always unreasonable. To punish poor behavior (teabagging/cheating) or because the doors are open is fine in my opinion.
I'm sorry, but it isn't bullshit. You shouldn't be so narrow minded while approaching a discussion. It isn't good for communication to be so closed off to an opposing point of view. You're likely not running into a team where everyone is really good at looping. Even if they are, it's highly possible they will go to a dead zone if you switch chases. I've had games where the killer chased me and I ran to a dead zone. I've also had many games where the killer found an easy down. Not everyone in the game is going to be amazing always. Everyone is bound to make mistakes and if they're not, come back to them later. It might throw them off.
At least you admit that you never play Rank 1 Killer, therefore you can't possibly know how it actually is there. It's probably not as bad as the impression that you got from me, but anyway you're mixing up topics now.
This is not about "How bad is looping", it's about looping and gen rushing ruining the fun for Killers while tunneling and camping ruins the fun for the Survivors. That's how those two things are compareable. As a Killer that only rarely camps or tunnels I face MANY looping and gen rushing Survivors. Just ask in this forum what the average gen progression is after the first hook. It's usually 2-3 gens done in exchange for a single hook. Now do the basic math -> match should be over on 3rd hook.
That's how a typical match starts as a Killer, half the objectives done for Survivors while you got ONE hook. And that's why Killers camp & tunnel.
A "good" match for Survivors would require a Killer that doesn't tunnel. Without tunneling, that would mean the Killer had to get a total of 8 hooks (each survivor twice) before killing someone - in the time it took them to repair 5 gens + gates.
Now let's use basic math again, first hook usually results in 2-3 gens done. You have 7 more hooks to go if you want to play by the survivors rulebook and you got a time frame of 2-3 gens and gates to achieve that. We realize that this is basically the same time frame that we had to get our first hook, but now we need 7 of those?
And after knowing that, Survivors wonder why Killers tunnel / camp?
As I said, It's the direct result. You loop & gen rush? Killers will camp & tunnel because they basically lost before the match even started. They COULD hope for survivors inefficiency and incompetence and therefore try to snowball but that's so unreliant and risky. They already ruined your Gatekeeper emblem by rushing the gens and due to the lack of time available, you won't get enough chases and hits to fill the Malicious and Chaser emblem either.
What to do? Nothing. You lost. So might as well camp the one guy that's responsible for it - the guy that looped you for the first few gens.
Those are the thoughts many Killers have during the gameplay.
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@fluffybunny said:
If you tunnel one person, pressure is on one person. Gen rushing is a thing often because of tunneling the survivor off of the hook and camping the survivor. If you go for a different person, that gives one person going for the save, one person on the hook, one person being chased, and one person on the gen. If you hang out by the hooked survivor, you typically have one person going for the save in an ideal situation. Survivors often make mistakes, especially in solo. Multiple people will attempt to go for the hook when only one person is really needed and that wastes a lot of time.Looping strong spots and taking the killer around is unpleasant, like tunneling. A lot of people choose not to loop like they choose not to teabag. It's one of the ways to shake off the killer, though, and many killers camp and tunnel. It's a two way street, dude. Saying "survivors don't care about the killer's fun" is a generalization. When I play survivor, I care if the killer has fun, too.
I will say sometimes efficient play is knowing when to get off the designated looper and go after one of the weaker gen jokey, though. You can still get the time waster out of their element later. Survivors can be really nasty, though. I've experienced it, too, as I'm someone who stands up for killers when they're being unfairly accused of something or calls out people when they do something crappy like DC for no reason. I'm not one to like DS, either, as generally the players are really weak despite being in high rank because most killers will avoid them.
As I said, I can only speak from my experience after roughly 2000 hours. I estimate that 99% of the Survivors in Rank 1 will loop. I can't remember the last time I saw a Survivor prematurely drop a pallet when they actually could've run around it 2 more times. If they can loop it, they will loop it. Same goes for windows.
With most Killers you have to chase a Survivor to down them, so you have to deal with looping sooner or later. That's the first initiator for toxicity in the match, you loop a Killer before even giving them the chance to play a "fair" match. Maybe they wouldn't tunnel or camp but because you decide to loop, you made them tunnel & camp?
Again, my experience as Rank 1 Killer and Survivor is that most if not all Survivors will loop by default, the Killers playstyle is irrelevant. Why? Why do Survivors loop (and therefore ruin the fun for Killers) and still expect Killers to care about their fun? That's the one question I want Survivor mains to answer.
Maybe you're one of those 1% of Survivors that don't loop even though they could, but you're a rarity then.
E: And that whole thing with "not pressuring gens" is bullshit. You can only chase one Survivor at a time and if you happen to play against 4 good loopers, you'll just find yourself running from one looper to another without getting anything done. You can only pressure survivors by hooking them, which requires you to go through the looping before.
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@ReneAensland said:
@PiiFree said:
Camping is not toxic.It's the Killer securing a kill. A kill is an objective.
It's not the nicest and most interesting playstyle one can do but then again camping in CS or PUBG is also not the nicest and most interesting thing to do, yet people are mature enough to find a way to deal with it instead of crying out loud.
It's only in DbD where people refuse to adapt and instead rather request Mommys help.
It's Toxic.
Pathetic.
Cheap.
Rotten.Stop defending camping.
Same can be said about looping and gen rushing.
I'm not defending camping because there is no reason to defend it. It's just a way of playing the game.
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@fluffybunny said:
Once again, gen rushing is due to pressure being misplaced and isn't the survivor's active choice. Survivors don't control whether they gen rush or not. I mean they could jump off the generators to wander around the map, but that would be like killers checking areas with no gens with no indication anyone is over there. Looping is also one of the only options survivors have in a chase if they don't want to get downed and when playing solo and sometimes in SWF (in a group of two, for instance), your first hook is often your last. Not always because you're camped, but also because the other survivors don't want to go for the save or wait too long to come grab you 'cause they're all thinking someone else is going for you. Either survivors loop, try to shake off the killer or run to a safer area. They don't have many options in a chase.I don't think so, no.
Gen rushing is a way of playing the game, irrelevant to the Killers playstyle. A killer can always only pressure ONE generator at a time. If 4 Survivors work on that ONE gen, then yes - the Killer just applied pressure but only because Survivors play in the most inefficient way possible.
If Survivors focus on repairing gens (gen rush), they will spread and repair the gens individually, which means the Killer has absolutely no way to stop more than 1 gen from being repaired at a time. It's all about the survivors playstyles and priorities at that point.
I agree that looping is "playing Survivor the most efficient way" by forcing the Killers to waste as much time as possible.
Now, read the next parts very carefully: Survivors playstyles revolve around playing in the most efficient way possible, that's why they repair gens unless forced to do otherwise. That's why they always loop when they get the chance to do so. It's just a given thing in Rank 1. 99% of the Survivors loop by default because it's the most efficient thing they can do during a chase.
Here comes the really important part survivors need to understand: Dealing with a looper is not really fun for the Killer, it can be very frustrating - especially in combination with gen rushers. This is Rank 1 play in a nutshell. Survivors by default use playstyles that they know are frustrating to deal with as Killer, but they still expect the Killers to NOT tunnel or camp even though THEY are shamelessly using frowned-upon playstyles against Killers BY DEFAUL.
Now comes my personal experience and opinon, being a "constant" rank 1 player on both sides:
Survivors DO NOT care about the Killers fun. Killers are fully aware of that and expect frustrating playstyles they have to deal with.
As a result, Killers DO NOT care about the Survivors fun either. However, Survivors seem to be surprised about that for some reason, even though they give Killers absolutely no reason to care about their fun.
I always try to adjust my playstyle depending on the efficiency of the opposite side. If Survivors get Ruin & 2 gens done before I get my first hook due to looping, I will play in a VERY annoying way because at that point the Survivors - from my perspective - do not care about my fun at all.
If a Killer camps and tunnels before we even finished a gen, I will gen rush and loop like crazy because that Killer obviously doesn't care about our fun.
This is a very important thing players have to consider; EVERY action they do leads to counter-reactions from the opposite side. Every single one. You pop 3 gens within 10 seconds? You can bet your anus I will tunnel and slug until the last one lays to rest. You try to tunnel me when we're still at 5 gens & ruin? I will loop you for 5 gens.
My personal observation is that most Survivors will shamelessly loop and gen rush, regardless of my playstyle which is why I mostly also shamelessly tunnel or slug. The result? I have like 500 insulting comments on my profile because apparently I am the toxic Killer surrounded by always friendly & nice survivors.
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Getting farmed is probably the most frustrating and rage-inducing thing that can happen in DbD. Even getting facecamped is nowhere close to that.
I absolutely despise such players, they'll get a lifetime ticket for facecamp. One time, that can happen by accident but if they just run around the corner, teabag and unhook again? Steam blocked, never to be unblocked again and they will pay for it whenever I come across them again lol
Unfortunately, they only very rarely, temporarily ban players for such behaviour cough AngryPug cough
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@AntiJelly said:
@PiiFree said:
I think you got it wrong again.Prove Thyself can only work on one Survivor at a time.
So, the other 3 Survivors would not benefit from Prove Thyself at all while one Survivor gets the 30% speed boost, resulting in 70+70+70+100 c/s.
In my hypothetical, each survivor is running Prove Thyself. Prove Thyself affects the user as well as the other survivors around him. The text "only works on one survivor at a time" just makes it so that each survivor can't get really ridiculous gen speeds. I think.
That's exactly what I thought aswell but people told me it works differently.
I gotta test in KYF... This is such a poorly written description.
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I think you got it wrong again.
Prove Thyself can only work on one Survivor at a time.
So, the other 3 Survivors would not benefit from Prove Thyself at all while one Survivor gets the 30% speed boost, resulting in 70+70+70+100 c/s.
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@AntiJelly said:
@PiiFree said:
Prove Thyself only works on ONE Survivor at a time, so 30% for a specific Survivor at best.Spine Chill increases repair speed by 6%.
When considering these facts in your calculation, you'll end up with 4.92 c/s with results in 16.26s per gen.
Still not bad
You can only be affected by one Prove Thyself at a time. It increases charge speed by 0.1, for a total of 0.4 if there's four survivors on a generator.
I swear I don't get this perk discription, maybe it's because my english is not the best but I just keep interpreting it differently.
It doesn't make sense to me that it says you get 10% repair speed bonus PER SURVIVOR NEARBY but at the same time 1 Survivor is the highest buff you can get? Where's the logic in that?
From my understanding, only ONE survivor can get the prove thyself buff at a time, but up to 30% due to 3 survivors nearby.
E: So if 2 survivors with Prove Thyself work on a gen, both get 10% bonus? Someone lied to me then, because last time I assumed this people told me that I should read up how this perk works lol
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Prove Thyself only works on ONE Survivor at a time, so 30% for a specific Survivor at best.
Spine Chill increases repair speed by 6%.
When considering these facts in your calculation, you'll end up with 4.92 c/s which* results in 16.26s per gen.
Still not bad
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I can't understand it either, it's almost as if they think that by disconnecting, they somehow deny you the victory. It makes no sense to me. THEY lose the points, no one else. They lose in every aspect of the game.
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I just appreciate the sandbag, make use of it and move on. If there's a fight going on between them, I'm not taking sides as I don't know the background story.
Maybe the other guy sandbagged them previously? Maybe they're just friends trying to mess with each other? Maybe they knew that this guy is toxic and tried to prevent me from a lot of frustration?
I don't know, I don't care. I do my thing and you do yours. I'd probably just get flamed anyway if I took sides lol.
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@powerbats said:
Well that's assuming someone knows where you dropped it and picks it up and also makes it out of the trial with said item though. As far as survivors items easier to get well yeah that's pretty obvious why since it's harder for them t get bp compared to a killer.For keeping yes it can be easier but doesn't mean it always is though and again teh killer can and usually does make more bp per run then that individual survivor did. On average the killer will make out better on both bp and on items comparatively.
Also the really good players aren't that common compared to the potatoes that make up the majority of the playerbase. Throw in killers that have everything P3'd and are always complaining about having excess bp to spend.
Most of the red rank survivors i solo up with play 4-6 different characters with each having a specific loadout they run depending on who's in the lobby and dailies. For those most also rarely bring items and if they do it's not higher than a green usually.
I'm solely talking about the possibilities, I don't care how good or how bad the players are or what perks they use.
What I stated are simple facts.
I know there are many potatoes playing DbD but imo those players are irrelevant. Bad players are bad, you don't need to help them to get good, THEY have to get good.
BTW: How do you know that most red rank survivors play 4-6 characters? Everyone seems to main a specific character and just uses the others for daily rituals...
Oh and you can see the auras of Survivors when they get downed or hooked so you don't really need to know where they die since you can see them from all across the map. You know where they get mori'd or hooked, the only exception would be FD
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@Mochan said:
Look at the red killer, well I give him points for trying.So what exactly are you trying to accomplish with this POS thread?
Here we have a proof that Survivors are OP!!! :^)
Thanks.
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Technically seen, Camping is like Gen rushing:
You limit your playstyle to a specific task that helps you get your objective done while ignoring all other things in the match until it's done, without giving your opponent too much counterplay to handle it. Both are objectives.
Looping is like tunneling:
You're using a tactic that helps you getting your objective done, but it ruins the fun for the opposite side as a result. They're equivalent, looping wins survivors a lot of time and tunneling is a way to slow down the game again quickly.It's really quite simple, if the Killer camps and tunnels, you gen rush and loop. If the Survivors gen rush and loop, you camp and tunnel.
Since all survivors gen rush and loop these days, it should also be expected that Killers tunnel / camp.
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OP, you seem to confuse SWF with using external softwares to communicate with each other.
Killers don't care about SWF as this doesn't really provide any seriously unfair advantages. It's because SWFs use external third party softwares to gain advantages that they otherwise would not get.
With the ability to globally communicate with each other you get access to informations that you would otherwise never have. We all know that knowledge is a very important part in DbD, if not the most important one. Knowing where the Killer is, where the survivors are, what gens are being worked on, where the totems are, where the pallets are gone ect. is gamebreaking, simply put.
It really shouldn't surprise you that Killers try to avoid such players. It's similar to playing PUBG against someone that has a ghosting friend that keeps telling them where you are and what you're doing.
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Lobby dodging is always the result of bad experiences in the past.
"You reap what you sow" - that's exactly what it is if you think further than just that specific lobby.
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@powerbats said:
But unlike survivors ultra rares the killer gets multiple uses out of them during a trial and is guaranteed to be able to do so. The survivor has to actually escape and escape with their item and it only takes one camper or tunneler or mori and it's goodbye items and addons.That won't stop other survivors from taking and using said item though. The item still exists, it's just not in the hands of the same survivor but from a Killers perspective that doesn't matter, in fact it makes it even worse because even if you finally kill that key-user or flashlight, someone can just run by and pick it up again.
Not really complaining about it, I just want to point out that Survivors items and add-ons are a lot easier to get and to keep compared to Killers
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@Slayer said:
Perk description still says it affects repair speed thoughLeader? Really?
https://deadbydaylight.gamepedia.com/Leader
You're able to organise a team to cooperate more efficiently.
Increases the other Survivors' Healing, Sabotage, Unhooking, Cleansing, Opening Exit Gates, and Chest Search speeds by 15/20/25 % when they are within 8 metres of range from you
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@Slayer said:
Wait leader and prove thyself do not stack do they?Leader doesn't affect repair times anymore and Prove Thyself (from my understanding) can only work on one survivor at a time. They can't really "stack" because they boost different things, but you can get the effect of both perks.
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@powerbats said:
@PiiFree said:
@powerbats said:
I never had an issue though earning way more bp though and getting my items back to the point I finally stopped spending bp on her. Had I kept going I'd have close to 500 each of those items instead of spending that bp on other toons.If you throw in 1.5 or 2x bp events it's insane how much bp you earn to the point you're stockpiled for months if you blow it all on your main.
Let's also keep in mind that Survivors won't even lose their items / add-ons if they manage to escape, which let's gen rush squads push through many matches before they actually lose their Engineers toolboxes with Socket Swivels and Mint Rags
Most Survivors have ONE main survivor in which they put most BPs while most Killers frequently rotate and therefore have to level up and spend points on ALL of them to get good add-ons, on top of ALWAYS losing them whenever they use them.
I play 2 survivors usually sometimes a 3rd and 4th and I have stuff spread across all of them due to lobby dodging if there's too many of 1 character in there whether they've got items or not. Most lobbies there's lucky to have more than 2 items equipped due to all the dodging and that predates this latest patch.
But none of them has as much stuff stockpiled as my killers do when I'm playing the same one or 2 all the time and I can equip Franklins and the survivors aren't keeping those items.
If you get Franklin'd then your item is usually taken by another survivor especially if they see it's a good one or you die without a white ward.
Now lets be honest gen rush squads while they exist aren't the norm with the 4 tb nonsense like the video where the killer is working with those people to proc it.
Also most killers play a few killers and aren't forced to spend points on the rest once they get perks unlocked especially for the ones that have everything already P3'd.
A lot of assumptions and claims that no one can back up or prove.
I can only speak for myself, I'm a Meg main, 90% of the matches are played as Meg, therefore most of the BPs go into her since I P3 the others already. I have hundreds of items and add-ons, I'm 100% certain that I will NEVER run out of them EVER. It's impossible. As Survivor, you can also find good items and add-ons in chests to increase your stock for free.
On top of that I play solo and have an escape rate of at least 70%, which means I'd only rarely actually lose my items.
As Killer, I obviously also have tons of add-ons but the difference is that I know for sure that I WILL lose them when I use them, which is why I am a lot more careful with them. An ultra rare add-on such as Iridescent head means that I spend 8'000 bloodpoints to get an advantage for that specific match and then it's gone. There is no way to get add-ons other than buying them from the bloodweb, I can't farm or steal them during regular gameplay.
Yes, 4x toolbox gen rush squads or cancerlight squads are rare because Survivors are somewhat empathic and realize how broken it is, but not because it's hard to get the items or add-ons to do so. For Killers, it's pretty expensive to constantly use good stuff.
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Camping is not toxic.
It's the Killer securing a kill. A kill is an objective.
It's not the nicest and most interesting playstyle one can do but then again camping in CS or PUBG is also not the nicest and most interesting thing to do, yet people are mature enough to find a way to deal with it instead of crying out loud.
It's only in DbD where people refuse to adapt and instead rather request Mommys help.
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@powerbats said:
I never had an issue though earning way more bp though and getting my items back to the point I finally stopped spending bp on her. Had I kept going I'd have close to 500 each of those items instead of spending that bp on other toons.If you throw in 1.5 or 2x bp events it's insane how much bp you earn to the point you're stockpiled for months if you blow it all on your main.
Let's also keep in mind that Survivors won't even lose their items / add-ons if they manage to escape, which let's gen rush squads push through many matches before they actually lose their Engineers toolboxes with Socket Swivels and Mint Rags
Most Survivors have ONE main survivor in which they put most BPs while most Killers frequently rotate and therefore have to level up and spend points on ALL of them to get good add-ons, on top of ALWAYS losing them whenever they use them.
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Again, can someone please explain to me why all of a sudden these gen rush threads pop up since latest patch?
They somewhat buffed Prove Thyself but nerfed Leader.
I just don't get it, the "ridiculous" repair times we see are nothing new, this was already possible before this patch...
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I'd say somewhere between 30-60 seconds against bad Survivors or towards the end of the match against competent Survivors.
...or almost instantly if something like that happens:
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@DwightsLifeMatters said:
Really? That's such a waste of time to hunt achievement hackers lol, who cares about others achievements?Achievement hacks and Legacy hacks are the result of hacked safefiles. It's safe to assume that those players also hacked the lesser obvious things like items and bloodpoints while they were at it, which has a big impact.
Unless you think an endless amount of items, add-ons and offerings have no impact?
And if we're honest, no one likes hackers, doesn't matter how far they went. Do it the legit way or get banned.
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If you run through the exit, it'll put you into a labyrinth of the entitys web, where Survivors had to look for the escape and the killer gets a last chance to catch the survivors that fail to find it quickly enough.
I imagine it being something like the labyrinth of Takeshi's Castle, but of course a lot scarier and only one Killer vs the remaining Survivors.
Or another stupid idea; They'd end up in the Entitys Arena where the Survivors had to fight against the Killer to bring a last sacrifice for the entity. However dies, loses. In this fight, the previously sacrificed Survivors spirits can participate in the fight but they'd be a weaker version of the actual Survivors.
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If you use Engineer's Toolbox (25%) with Socket Swivels (15%) and Mint Rag (10%), it'll increase your repair speed by 50%.
Add one Prove Thyself to that for an individual 20%, assuming you push through the gens as trio while one is busy with the Killer.
This gives them a repair speed of 3.8 c/s which results in a repair time of ~21s for a single gen in a very realistic scenario, leading to a total required gen repair time of ~105s for 5 gens.
However, what I don't understand:
Why are people all of a sudden discussing this in relation to the latest patch? Prove Thyself doesn't have such a big impact regarding repair times, the numbers I provided were already possible before that patch if the Survivors used old Leader....or am I missing something? I must admit, I didn't read through all the patch notes as I'm pretty much done with DbD.
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@terrortil said:
@PiiFree said:
It matters because every pointless hook or kill allows bad Killers to pip and rank up. All while the statistics show a decent kill-ratio, ignoring the fact that half of those kills were achieved because of stupid action like the one we're discussing right now.The kill / escape ratio doesn't represent the true match performance, it just represents the stupidity of Survivors in the last few seconds, which then will be used to balance or not balance the game.
I find it very daring to say that the developers are balancing the game on the basis of such simple statistics, without looking at more details about when/how/why a game came to its conclusion.
BUT even if that is so: Your kill / escape ratio represent the true match. Why does it matter if it is because you are good or your survivor are stupid. Or lets turn around: If all leave and let the OP die. Now we have three escapees who didn't need any skill. How is this representative?
That's the sad part, the devs balance the game around kill / escape rate.
I don't think it represents the true match, not regarding balance. I try to explain it more detailed: Let's say my SWF stomps a Killer and we're all waiting in front of the exit gate and allow the Killer to kill us.
Actual match result: 4 kills
What the devs think has happened: The Killer dominated and won the match.
What actually happened: We completly destroyed the Killer but then decided to give them the kills anyway.
Regarding balance, this match was clearly in our favour as we totally destroyed the Killer but the match result doesn't represent this at all, it represents quite the opposite.
The same can be said in the scenario we're currently discussing; if you provide pointless kills and hooks for the Killer you're basically rigging the result / stats and make the match look a lot more balanced than it actually was, leaving a false impression if you just look at the result (which is what the devs do).
It's not at all about denying the killer some points or hooks, at least not for me. If Survivors would stop handing out free hooks and kills with actions like OP mentioned, the escape rates would probably look different. Plus unskilled Killers or campers would never be able to rank up, which means high rank matches would actually be camper-free.
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@terrortil said:
I have clearly referred to this situation, but I do not want to accuse anyone. So please tell me why dead (by trying to save someone) matters in any other way than killer bp in this situation.It matters because every pointless hook or kill allows bad Killers to pip and rank up. All while the statistics show a decent kill-ratio, ignoring the fact that half of those kills were achieved because of stupid action like the one we're discussing right now.
The kill / escape ratio doesn't represent the true match performance, it just represents the stupidity of Survivors in the last few seconds, which then will be used to balance or not balance the game.
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@terrortil said:
@PiiFree said:
Stop giving the Killers free hooks / sacrifices.Why? In this situation you are either on the hook (and willing to die) or you are free to go since the killer is camping the hook. Why care what I do with my virtual survivor life or even worse care how many points the killer makes. What kind of a dickmove is this if your only concern is to deny points from the killer.
It's truly fascinating how people can read a simple statement like "Stop giving the Killers free hooks / sacrifices" and then come to the conclusion that my "only concern is to deny points from the Killer".
I'm honestly speechless as to what to reply, so I'll just go with "Ok" and move on, hope that's ok
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@fluffybunny said:
I like the idea of having to find bone fragments! I agree, something should be done as the hatch is quite boring as is. If they had to search for bone fragments to open the hatch, it could create some interesting sneaky plays. They could also have something spawn in, like a box, and you have to go and loot the boxes to match a key together. The killer would naturally be able to see it like how the Pig can see her boxes.Thank you @fluffybunny, I appreciate that you took the time to actually read my suggestions before jumping to conclusions after the first sentence. We share the same opinion regarding hatch.
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@AshleyWB said:
Defends hook - called a camper
Plays normally - called a tunneller
Does well with strong perks - sweaty
Does poorly with any loadout - baby kiiler bad noob etc.
Does well with no perks - killer opPatrols gens - called a "gen camper"
Returns to hook - called a "distant camper" -
Long story short:
Stop giving the Killers free hooks / sacrifices.
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@SenzuDuck said:
Threads and posts are the same thing, what you're doing is posting a comment OMEGALUL you don't post a post.This is probably the best thing I've read in a while lol
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@SenzuDuck said:
Didn't realise this was "your post".Don't worry, few more years and you'll be an adult and get over petty video game grudges : (
Time to learn the difference between a post and a thread then, "big" boy.
And protip: if you want to avoid conversation with someone - replying on their posts is usually not a good way to achieve that as that's how you start a conversation
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@SenzuDuck said:
Well, thank god you don't watch me anymore, can't stand petty people with a grudge over video games.Once you've learnt the mechanics then we can have a real big boy conversation
Perfect, so I hope you won't comment on my posts ever again to avoid initiating a conversation between you and me. Thanks and have a nice day
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@SenzuDuck said:
Ehh not really, you're not the first killer I've seen think only 2 gens needs to be done for hatch to spawn, it's not you're fault you don't know basic mechanics, I'm glad I could teach you.You're exactly the type of user I try to avoid having contact with. "You're not the first KILLER" - assuming that I'm a Killer main.
@SenzuDuck said:
"You know me" because you've seen 5 minutes of a stream, well done you really do know me. Imagine getting upset about being told how a mechanic works so you personally attack someone, I don't think you understand the difference, which is why you're struggling to understand how hatch works.I already explained to you that you started to attack me but good job trying to deny it.
And no, I actually used to watch you quite often like one year ago (or even longer ago) back when you had 5 viewers on average. Until we faced each other and you felt the need to talk about that salty tryhard killer that happened to be a follower of yours lol
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@Cardgrey said:
I just don’t see the issue... slug and again with the exception of dcing hatch isn’t a issue.Indeed that's the solution for Killers, but what's the solution for Survivors? I'm looking at the hatch from both perspectives and while Killers do have an option to avoid a standoff, Survivors - apart from disconnecting - don't have one.
it sometimes happens that the last Survivor remaining indeed deserves the hatch, if they pushed through 2 gens while the rest of the team was just feeding hooks. In that case, the Survivor should have a fair chance to earn the hatch.
My suggestion is a way to help survivors earn the hatch without any counterplay left for the Killers but as expected, people here just read the name of a user and assume "ohhh it's a biased Killer mains opinion, let's just discredit them!". I'm not a Killer main btw, I'm just someone that tries to balance the game for everyone but SWFs.
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@SenzuDuck said:
Your comment literally says "2 generators as 4 survivors is easy to get"If you manage to repair 2 generators as 4 Survivors, the last survivor has the possibility to escape through the hatch. Regardless if that last Survivor actually contributed in ANY way to that, they'll get the chance to take the hatch, so it's not always earned. It doesn't take a huge amount of brain cells to come to this conclusion with the information I gave you.
I'm indeed a reasonable adult - you attacked me first by discrediting my opinionbased on an blatant assumption you made, to which I reacted in a reasonable and honest way. The difference between you and me is that I know you, but you don't know me.
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@Cardgrey said:
@PiiFree said:
A mechanic like the hatch is fine but I think the requirements for it need adjustments.Every survivor should have to earn the hatch, 2 generators as 4 Survivors is way too easy to get. In exchange, if the Survivor actually manages to earn the hatch, it should be a free escape with no counterplay.
Maybe a time frame in which the last Survivor has to survive and then the hatch opens? Killer wouldn't be able to grab Survivors at that point.
Or add bone fragments that the Survivor has to find to open the hatch. They could find the fragments at the hooks where people got sacrificed or at their corpse when they got morid / bleed out. To avoid camping those hooks / corpses, it would require one fragment less than totally available.
This would require a somewhat skillful playstyle in the end but at the same time allows Killers to end the match before they can use the Hatch. May the better player win.
Hatch is needed sadly or else people would stall or dc and people would still complain... that said with the exception of dcing killer has control of the hatch game. How would u feel if u killed 3 and the 4th always dced?
Hatch just needs a rework...I get the feeling that you guys don't even read what people type before posting your responses?
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@SenzuDuck said:
@PiiFree said:
A mechanic like the hatch is fine but I think the requirements for it need adjustments.Every survivor should have to earn the hatch, 2 generators as 4 Survivors is way too easy to get. In exchange, if the Survivor actually manages to earn the hatch, it should be a free escape with no counterplay.
Maybe a time frame in which the last Survivor has to survive and then the hatch opens? Killer wouldn't be able to grab Survivors at that point.
Or add bone fragments that the Survivor has to find to open the hatch. They could find the fragments at the hooks where people got sacrificed or at their corpse when they got morid / bleed out. To avoid camping those hooks / corpses, it would require one fragment less than totally available.
This would require a somewhat skillful playstyle in the end but at the same time allows Killers to end the match before they can use the Hatch. May the better player win.
You have no idea how the hatch works, clearly. You should not be commenting on this.
Hatch SPAWNS if gens done = Survivors+1
So if 4 survivors are alive, all 5 gens must be done
If 3 survivors are alive 4 gens need to be done
If 2 survivors are alive 3 gens need to be done
If 1 survivor is alive 2 gens have to be done.Can you at least learn basic mechanics before saying "survivors have to earn it" LUL.
You're one big embarrassment, you didn't even read my post nor the actual OP.
If you read OP you'd have realized that they're talking about the 4th survivors free escape, which always requires 2 gens to get. I'm not stupid, I know how the hatch works but the actual hatch spawn mechanics are totally irrelevant to my post.
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A mechanic like the hatch is fine but I think the requirements for it need adjustments.
Every survivor should have to earn the hatch, 2 generators as 4 Survivors is way too easy to get. In exchange, if the Survivor actually manages to earn the hatch, it should be a free escape with no counterplay.
Maybe a time frame in which the last Survivor has to survive and then the hatch opens? Killer wouldn't be able to grab Survivors at that point.
Or add bone fragments that the Survivor has to find to open the hatch. They could find the fragments at the hooks where people got sacrificed or at their corpse when they got morid / bleed out. To avoid camping those hooks / corpses, it would require one fragment less than totally available.
This would require a somewhat skillful playstyle in the end but at the same time allows Killers to end the match before they can use the Hatch. May the better player win.
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@Slyther83 said:
Camping is only "intended" until they figure out how to creatively address it. Until then, sure, it's "intended".Why did you necro this?
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I only very rarely dodge lobbies (maybe once in 20 matches) but I often find myself thinking: "Oh man, if only I knew that earlier...!"
My guess is that Killers experienced many of such situations and therefore started to pay more attention in the lobby, trying to avoid anything that could possibly lead to frustrating matches.
It's very similar to Survivors blocking certain Killers with MLGA to avoid them. Actually, I think MLGA is much worse because it takes it to a personal level by blocking a specific IP while typical lobby dodgers just look at the current lobby and dodge it if they don't feel confident about it. They don't care if you get into the same lobby one hour later, unless you really messed up and they remember your name.
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@White_Owl said:
You make it seems as all survivors are toxic. In my experience a good portion just leave a gg. That said when a killer leaves asap after playing bad I interpet it as them being mad, because otherwise there is no reason to not drop a gg before leaving.As I said, it's my explanation for players leaving the lobby quickly. That applies to Killers and Survivors and has no relation to a specific side but the discussion was about Killers that immediately leave after losing, without dropping a "GG".
Some Survivors like to taunt the Killer when they destroy them, teabagging in the exit gate and followed by "ez baby Killer" and stuff like that. You know that's a thing. So, as I said, my guess would be that Killers that lost are tired of such reactions and thus leave the match quickly to avoid them, to AVOID getting mad.
Sidenote; Does the same apply to Survivors? I often drop a "gg", especially when I 4k but I very, very rarely get a "gg" back. According to your logic, that means any Survivor that doesn't drop a "GG" is mad? Wow! In that case the game is full of mad survivors.
A GG is dropped whenever a player thinks it was a good game, it has absolutely no relation to the players mental/emotional state. I can 4k and have a ######### match with 4 flashlight spamers or I can 0k and have a good game without any BM. The 4k was a bad game, the 0k was a good game. Maybe it's time to stop rating the matches based on kills / escapes and instead look at the actual gameplay experience DURING the match.