PerkyPerky
PerkyPerky
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@Veeramid said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1502189#Comment_1502189
There's no point in arguing with you here. You dont want to see the invalidity of your statements. Yes you can h i d e against NOED. Do you even understand how boring that is to play against if the killer has more than -1 brain cell.
Yes, pointless to argue with someone who thinks "do bones" is not a real counter, and who "plays red rank killer" and does not know the many counters of NOED.
Killer is not here to entertain you, the hell I care if survivors find it "boring"? I am in it for my own fun, as they are in it for their own fun.
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@Enlyne said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1502149#Comment_1502149
Finally somebody who makes the good points here.
But you're still gonna get slammed because they don't like when people speak the truth.
Again with changing the narrative, not sure who can't stand the truth.. The people who removed a joke meme post because they cried to mods?
This topic is about how it is funny to shame killers for using NOED while you yourself use so many crutch perks, but to give you a respond to survivor perks "counters":
DS: problem is, it isn't anti-tunnel as it is. More like God mode for survivors for 60 seconds and momentum stopper.
BT: Again, gets abused as hell, unhook infront of me then come running at me to get "protective hit" and if I down him then I have to go against DS/Unbreakable combo.
Unbreakable: No counter to it. Especially when used with DS.
Dead hard: No counter. Can fake swing, still buys survivors time, still gives survivors a second chance, still requires no skill.
There.
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@Veeramid said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1502177#Comment_1502177
Again I'm a rank 3 killer. I play more killer than survivor. NOED isn't okay. Its unfair and annoying. You just used the do bones argument again while also complaining about gen rush. Gen rush doesn't exist. There is a surprising thing called pressure. You get this from patrolling gens, slugging, hooking survivors far away from gens, and bringing corrupt intervention. Please educate yourself on how to play the game before you complain like this.
Yes yes I get it, everyone is red rank killer on these forums.
In before a screenshot that actually prove nothing. Want to prove something? Stream high level killer gameplay.
Again, nothing wrong with "do bones". Do not gen rush, simple. If gen rush doesn't exist, then camping, tunneling, et cetra. all don't exist too.
A red rank killer that does not know what counters there are to NOED other than "do bones", riiiiiiiiiiiight.
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@Veeramid said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1502160#Comment_1502160
Ah yes tell me the counters other than "dO bOnEs".
Like I said someone posted one here and no, I am not going to educate any survivor-main. Play killer and you will find the so-many counters that decent survivors with a _brain_ actually utilize.
What's wrong with "do bones"? You mean you want to gen rush and not allow killer to counter it? Oh okay... Now we all get the root problem of NOED complaints.
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@Veeramid said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/178319/remember-guys-noed-is-for-bad-killers
If the counter you are referring to is "do bones" then I feel genuinely sorry for you. Doing bones isn't a survivors objective. Also all the perks you listed have easy counters.
DS dont tunnel the survivor its that easy.
BT again dont tunnel off hook.
Unbreakable just slug people at the beginning of the game to waste it.
Dead hard? Seriously? You're gonna complain about this piece of ######### perk? It's extremely server heavy with how it works and you can sit and wait for a survivor to waste it
Im rank 4 survivor and rank 3 killer I don't see a problem with those perks you listed. NOED is disgusting and should be nerfed.
I am not gonna bother educate you on how to counter NOED. There are many counters and even one poster posted one in this very same thread.
It has way too many counters, I play survivor too, you know? When I want to stress-relief.
Survivors don't want to do anything other than generators (definition of gen rush)? That's on them. Killers are free to use anti-gen-rush techniques too.
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@Caz2018 said:
Alternatively, NOED is for bad survivors who are too lazy to do bones.
It is anti-gen rush perk, that's what it is.
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@Demonl3y said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1502015#Comment_1502015
But just because someone uses NOED it doesnt mean you rely on it. Even the best player in DbD could use NOED because he like the perk or something but that doesnt mean he rely on it or need it.
Very true, this thread is about encouraging killers to use NOED. Don't fall for survivors, who are in no position at all to judge you anyways, since all they do is hold M1.
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@Enlyne said:
More of these posts?
Get over the fact that NOED is overused by bad players with pretty easy killers AKA Freddy/Spirit, if you were that good at the game you'd notice this is a waste of a perk slot and move on to something else, there's no point in your post.
Your same reasoning as always, second chances, except, most of the people who play solo need something to keep them alive from cheap killer strats and bad teammates overall, but of course, you killers don't have to worry about that.
Keep shaming killers (that actually require skill to play, other than holding M1) for using a "crutch" perk when you use 4 crutch perks per survivor.
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Hmmm... I wonder why there are no killers!
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@DaKnight said:
https://www.twitch.tv/dbdleague
Don't ignore the fact that NOED / Rancor is practically the meta in "competitive" play because gens get done in 3-4 minutes by a SWF on comms.
Lol it's hard to take this "league" seriously, it's kinda pathetic how people try to make DbD competitive.
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@clem1710 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1502045#Comment_1502045
So you agree that DS, borrowed time, unbreakable and basically every other meta perk need to be fixed
Who doesn't? And hatch needs to let go because it is yet another second chance for survivors who play poorly. EGC should start when third survivor is dead.
But wait for it, some survivors actually said (I kid you not) hatch is killer-favored!
What second chances do killers get? Maybe NOED? One?
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1502033#Comment_1502033
And once again. If you rely on the perk to get kills you're not a good killer. If you rely on the perks to escape you're not a good survivor.
Can I make this literally any clearer? Both sides have crutch perks with issues. Both sides need their perks fixed.
My point is, it is ridiculous to shame a killer for using NOED when you and your 3 survivor friends are full-loaded with crutch perk that play the game for you.
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@clem1710 said:
Yep. In survivors logic : NOED is a crutch for bad players, but DS is fine!
Exactly.
Killer has ONE "crutch" perk. Survivors have way too many and they are FOUR.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1502022#Comment_1502022
Again if you rely on the perk to get kills you're bad as killer.
If you rely on the perks to escape you're a bad survivor.
Killer has one perk though that can be considered "crutch". Survivors, how many?
Oh, and it's 4 survivors too, so 16 crutch perks.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
NOED is for bad killers. If you rely on NOED to get kills you don't deserve to be high ranked.
If you have to stack second chance perks on top of second chance perks (like the infamous Smol PP Build^tm) then you're not a good survivor. If you rely on those perks every game you don't deserve to be high ranked.
Both sides have their issues. DS by itself is fine, and unbreakable by itself is fine. They need anti-synergy together and suddenly there's no issue with either perk.
BT is counterable by chasing the unhooker. I'd prefer it to deactivate during endgame but oh well.
Dead hard is counterable.
NOED is more counter-able than any survivor build, even if killer camps.
NOED doesn't make you more bad than when you are a survivor and you use second chance perks lol.
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@Boosted_Dwight said:
Absolutely not. DS now is still pretty useful. You basically have 60 seconds of immunity that's almost an entire gen and if they slug you bring Unbreakable and they can't do a thing about it.
I guarantee you 2017 DbD was not perfect for either side. Double pallets, bad map design, exhaustion not existing (Sprint Burst every 60 seconds of chase was not good), short gen times, old brand new part, pallet vacuum, crazy perk combos and that's only on the survivor side. 2017 was only good because people didn't know how to play the game but it's not 2017 anymore. It's 2020 and optimal survivors who already know how to loop with single pallets and exhaustion would wipe the floor with the killer if things were like in 2017.
TLDR : It's not 2017. Players aren't clueless on how the game works anymore and if things from 2017 were to come back this game would die because of how abusable everything was back then.
Guess what? The survivors consider everything you listed a "nerf".
Not sure how is it a nerf, it should of have never existed. Insta-heal and crap like that, LOL!
They don't even know what a nerf is.
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Good survivors don't need DS, Deadhard, Unbreakable, BT, etc. etc. but here we go!
But let's shame a killer for using anti-genrush perk because we have no skills to counter it.
Funny survivors.
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@IPlayOniWayTooMuch said:
you know the killer can close the hatch right? And if you know the spawning rules you can find it before it opens and close it later starting a timer and the doors are usually in eyesight of one another.
noed isn’t base kit because it can give people free kills and trust me, your catching at least someone with NOED because of the speed boost, if you’re new the speed doesn’t sound like much but think about how slow huntress is compared to other killers And that’s only a 5% speed difference and NOED gives you 4.
most survivor “second chances” can be played around. I can only think of one game where DS and unbreakable actually frustrated me to the point of stop playing only one out of the thousands I’ve played.
but overall you just don’t get better, NOED rewards you for losing and I don’t think that’s a healthy perk. (And it won’t be healthy base)
Can close it or not is not relevant here at all. Survivors get more second chances that's a fact.
We need to reduce them, to as many second chances as the killers get.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1500999#Comment_1500999
I do. 4,000 hours here, how long have you played?
I’m guessing long enough to complain about a disgusting 4% chance at escaping. Wow.
a 4% is greater than 0% and multiplied by 3 is 12%, multiplied by 4 survivors it is 36% and it's more common than you think.
Why should survivors get so many second chances for messing up. What second chances do killers get? Hmmm?
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@bubbabrotha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1496374#Comment_1496374
I don't get it...
Just typical survivor nonsense, don't bother.
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Do you even play the game? Like dozen second chance perks (x4 survivors, x16 total). AND, even on TOP OF THAT, a 4% escape chance (x3 per survivor, x12 total).
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@RakimSockem said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1498836#Comment_1498836
Ummm no. That's not how that works. lol
Hatch does not reward for not saving on hook. Hatch is a way to end the game, either by the killer finding it and closing it, or giving the survivor a last hope of escaping.
There are very few scenarios where the killer closes the hatch and survivor somehow manages to open a door.
Yes of course, hatches are not here to give the last survivor a second chance and they are indeed killer-favored!
Get rid of hatches please, BHVR. Start EGC when third survivor dies.
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@LeaderoftheSaints said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1499377#Comment_1499377
Well how about instead of complaining and whining at everyones post you actually come up with some solutions or ideas on how they could immplent something in the hatches place thats fair for both sides.
The very post you were quoting has one solution. Are you for real?
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@LeaderoftheSaints said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1497695#Comment_1497695
The hatch is better than playing hide and seek for the rest of your life. The hatch itself is alright for the most part could use a few changes.
Been discussed, better solutions exist, EGC when third person dies, two survivors can play hide and seek for rest of your life, yaba yaba yaba...
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@ASnealyAtheist said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1499019#Comment_1499019
Borrowed time is essential for camping killers and is a balanced perk... why even mention that one? I'm not saying Noed is overpowered just a sad pity perk (did you read the OP????) that shouldnt be included (basically like the hatch for killer). And I honestly am fine with removing adrenaline and DS as I hold no attachment to either.
It's not as sad as the survivor perks I mentioned though (and many more!).
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How is NOED related now?! Why remove NOED?
Why not remove DS, BT, Adrenaline, Unbreakable, etc. etc.?
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@thrawn3054 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1498974#Comment_1498974
It's only a buff if the killer plays like a scumbag. And I can't say I'm sad about campers having a harder time.
I want a buff when survivors act scumbag then, and we all know survivors are way more toxic because they are the power role.
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More survivor buff yaaaay.
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Devs already introduced so many counters to camping. Maybe rank up so you don't get matchmaked with potato survivors.
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@Keeper said:
I mean noed is usually used as a surprise boom 1 hitted you and if it was base kit then people would be running map every single game and do totems so you wouldnt get your surprise 1 hit anymore.
Plus i dont like this idea on certain killers like Spirit Nurse and freddy. they are already annoying to go against in Solo Q.
Feel free to propose any other second chance advantage for killers, for actual once.
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@MusicNerd_TC said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1498930#Comment_1498930
Meg is the second last survivor alive. Meg is in front of the hatch. Meg lets her team mate die on hook. Meg escapes. Meg won?
Hatch is bad design. Hatch makes killer slug third survivor. Hatch makes survivors act noobie noobie and selfish. Hatch good?
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@APoipleTurtle said:
The Hatch exists as a final hope for the last survivor, who most likely no longer has time to finish gens and will only have time to open a Gate if both spawned sufficiently far apart. It allows a team of inexperienced/newbie survivors to have a second chance when their team almost inevitably gets sacrificed by the killer. It also gives a possible chance of escape for a good survivor who got matched with a bunch of potatoes. It is rarely a free survivor escape (where the killer couldn't do anything about it) without the use of a "tactical disconnect" or a key. It's not like the killer can't already slug to counteract the hatch opening in most situations.
Hatch was a 50/50 mechanic BEFORE the Hatch-closing mechanics were introduced (hence the infamous "Hatch Standoff"). But, this interaction is actually in the killer's favor now; they search for the hatch significantly faster, closing the hatch is very likely to doom the last survivor, and (in my experience) the game tends to prioritize killer closing the hatch over the survivor jumping in if both players are sitting on it waiting for it to open. And I think it's great that hatch has been rebalanced this way. Killer still gets to feel powerful near the end of these matches, while survivor gets properly placed under even more pressure to find the hatch first. Besides, if the last survivor escapes, you win. If they don't escape, you still win. You are simply determining whether this one survivor can eke out a small "victory" for themselves.
I think most frustrations with the Hatch boil down to survivors cheesing it with DCs & Keys, or the killer feeling entitled to a free 4k (when they've already won the Trial and still have favorable odds of stopping the 4th person); two issues that I don't see a base-mechanic NOED solving.
Again with the hatch (a free out-of-jail ticket for survivors!!!!!!!!!!!!!) is in killer favor BS.
As for the rest of your post, it's all fine and dandy but how about a second chance for killers who play poorly? It's after all a 1v4 asymmetric gameplay (I read game description on Steam) so balance should be likewise, don't you agree?
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They are considerably tall, but compared to survivors, some seem tremendously taller.
Save for Hag and Nightmare of course, who are slightly taller than survivors.
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You keep playing it's your problem, you are on the wrong here. Even the Game Director asks you to play some other damned game (he heard civ is nice, etc.).
They got their money from you, they are done with you. DbD is marketed towards fresh blood with no consideration to veterans. I stopped playing, other than very few hours per week.
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@DingDongs said:
If you think about what would happen if noed actually become a basekit?
That would give a second objective already and more people would do cleanse more totems (aka please go find ruin hex while i'm busy chasing)
Anyway hatch exist so last survivor don't have to play hide and seek or something
I know why hatch exist but it still is a poor design. EGC starting after third survivor dies is more viable solution.
Besides, two survivors can hold the game hostage and escape for 1+ hours, it happened to me before.
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@MusicNerd_TC said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1495902#Comment_1495902
Hatch and NOED both reward playing badly, cancelling each other out. Hatch rewards the survivor for not saving on hook, NOED rewards the killer for letting gens fly. I think, if hatch exists, NOED be basekit when there is only one survivor left. These 2 things cancel each other out.
???
How does survivors play poorly (one survivor left) and then having a free escape and NOED cancel each other out? Obviously it's in favor for the survivor.
Hatch should not exist. EGC starts after third survivor died is the most fair solution I can think of.
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I really couldn't disagree more. NOED is nothing against the BS that we go through as killers, but I think survivors are used to easiness (hump a gen, m1, loop for 90 seconds pop goes a free escape) that they are making a big deal out of NOED.
It has way too many counters to mention, even perks that require zero skill from the player can be utilized to counter it.
But let's stay on-topic please.
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@Azgard12 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1498725#Comment_1498725
Perky, I'm hearing you man, but if one survivor escaping through the hatch is worth deleting the hatch, realize you did win that game.
What if there was a perk that allowed the killer to lock the hatch during EGC but before it opens (1 survivor remains)?
It's not about winning or losing it's about making the game fair and balanced which makes it more fun, this is what people don't necessary pick when we try to discuss.
No, we do NOT want 4k all games (would be pretty boring), but we want to be defeated because of mistakes we made or lack of skills, therefor we could actually improve at it. Right now, with all the second chance perks, hatch, and -don't get me start- voice communications among other SWF abuse make the game feel unfair, and punishes you (instead of rewarding you) for taking the time to learn and practice a killer and playing mostly okay.
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@twistedmonkey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1498528#Comment_1498528
Because the killer has an equal chance to find the hatch before the survivor. That is why it is 50/50.
Ask yourself honestly how many survivors do you actually lose too in this scenario?
You keep going to it being free escape instead of looking at it what it is. A way to end the game.
If you really think by saying this shrine idea of killing all survivors compared to one having a possibility of escaping is even remotely is the same or a good comparison I don't know what else to say.
Killing all 4 survivors should be hard. It's not meant to be the norm and only the best of the best should be able too.
Think about this. The more a 4k happens the more killers will be nerfed. Think outside the box instead of complaining about a mechanic where both sides have an equal chance.
Well the shrine shouldn't kill all survivors then, just 1?
EGC triggers when third survivor dies is best way to, well, end the game. The hatch should not exist, it's just a free out-of-jail for survivors.
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@TheFrog said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1495908#Comment_1495908
Why doesn’t this have more upvotes?
Because it is off-topic and because it's funny saying that when you rely on unbreakable, DS, self care/inner strength, BT, etc. etc.
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@Azgard12 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1498584#Comment_1498584
Maybe change the title of your topic then, as you bring up NOED there. 26 of the posts that follow before I even contribute also discuss NOED. It's the example you've made offered and defended. Again, I do think of NOED as training wheels (as I do of BBQ, Spine Chill and sometimes Self Care), in that these are perks I initially felt I needed to win. Later, I learned a bit more and started changing my builds to pay more attention to pressure and the state of the game.
That said, let me be one to say I think the game as it is now is Survivor-sided. I don't know that giving killers auto-NOED would change much except survivors would be more encouraged to do totems. Doing these would slow the game down a bit and be an inadvertent nerf to totems as a whole (if the survivors actually did them, barring Hallowed Ground).
In an earlier post, you mentioned that the EGC was a positive move, and that the hatch wasn't really the problem. Are there any other solutions you can think of? I genuinely wish Killers had a bit more in their corner, but I don't think NOED would do much.
I kind of agree with NOED part, I did not think much of a counter-advantage so much to show how absurd hatch is and (in my opinion) how it should of have never existed.
My solution was as I stated, no need for advantage for either side but once third survivor dies, it's EGC time (no hatch at all). I think that's fair, can you think of any fair solutions?
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@Azgard12 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1498571#Comment_1498571
I've read the entire thread now. Anytime somebody brings up a valid point, you tell them they're wrong, off-topic, or don't understand. So take a moment, think back, and realize some people are actually trying to hear you and approach you with clarity and fairness. Saying people don't understand at this point is only a reflection of your choice to ignore others. Be respectful, please.
You are discussing NOED in a topic about killers should have an advantage similar to survivors having a hatch for playing poorly. How is that not off-topic?! Like how can I make it any more clear, please help me.
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@Azgard12 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1498563#Comment_1498563
There's a lot of assuming happening. Let's try a different angle.
So many people complain about NOED. I'll be fair here and say if they added it as a part of the killer's kit that always happened, the game wouldn't change much at all for me. I make a habit of cleansing totems and generally don't hang around much at the end of the game. What would change for you?
NOED, was just used as a form of example of advantage a killer could have in case he ######### up like hatches are there for survivors who play poorly. I used it as an example because I am well aware of NOED-phobics. Should have used a different example, here: a shrine that randomly kills all survivors can be found once all gens are done, and survivors (4 of them!!) can close it. Is that fair to you? No? That's what hatches essentially are.
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@Azgard12 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1498565#Comment_1498565
I read your initial post. Sounds like you've had rough games and need a 5th perk slot, but I wouldn't think getting NOED helps as much as controlling the earlier game. But there are killers and players who function differently.
Nope. Read it again and again. We are here to discuss gameplay.
Stick to topic please.
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@Azgard12 said:
I mean I think of NOED as training wheels, so I do understand that some people need those while learning to ride a bike. But there are much better perks that will help you have a better early and mid game.
You obviously did not even read the topic and just is a NOED-phobic.
No one said NOED is needed or is a good (or bad perk), no one is even discussing NOED here.
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@Carpemortum said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1498547#Comment_1498547
As I said somewhere else, 3rd dead egc is not a solution. It ends the game prematurely. Some of us, like me, will still try and do a gen if were last alive. Or mindgame if I'm going to hatch or waiting at a door.
If 3rd dead starts EGC, guess what, the only option is the gates. And the killer will go RIGHT TO THEM. You're not supposed to have a good chance of surviving a 1v1, but having any chance and options is a must. Because as killer, if I know the EGC starts on 3rd dead, it means I run bbq, and noed, maybe rancor, and only have to worry about 3k before the end of the 5 gens. Not 4. The 4th is free.
How is trying to do gens secure a chance of survival more than exit gates?! Do you play killer? Do you see the usual distance-delta between exit gates and how easily survivors can indeed escape even if one remains?
Also: if there should be a chance for last survivor after team obviously messed up, why is there no second chance for a killer once all gens are done?
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@Carpemortum said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1495889#Comment_1495889
Nothing wrong with having a solution to the problem of people hiding for an hour instead of doing gens alone.
Ftfy.
EGC collapse begins once third survivor dead, there.
Billion solutions to solve that issue without giving the survivors a clear advantage (like always).
Also: 2 survivors can (and did to me, quite times) hide for an hour or even more if they want to. So survivors can still hold the game hostage because (surprise surprise) it's another aspect of which they have the control of.
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@twistedmonkey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1497720#Comment_1497720
The hatch isn't actually an advantage to survivors as its a 50/50 chance on who finds it first.
Three dead survivors, one remaining get a free out of jail card.
Not an advantage to survivors, how so? It's like having penalty kicks when the teams are not at a draw, but one is losing, and then saying it's a 50/50 chance.
How about when 5 gens done AND 3+ survivors are alive, a killer randomly finds shrine to kill all survivors and win the game, but survivors can get to the shrine before him they get an escape (but of course killer will have same speed as survivors by then)? 50/50 chance right?
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Here we go again demanding more and more and more nerfs...
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@twistedmonkey said:
The hatch itself is a mechanic not designed to give an escape but to make it a race for both sides to find it first and simply help end the game quicker nothing else.
The egc was the only thing needed for the hatch to work as intended.
The EGC is a step forward for sure, does not mean the hatch is not a poor design.
There are better solutions to "end game quicker" without giving the bigger advantage to survivors, don't you agree?