OnryosTapeRentals
OnryosTapeRentals
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I'm a Skull Merchant hater and even I agree. She's legitimately unplayable right now and we have no idea when she'll finally get her rework. They could at least give her some number buffs in the mean time.
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Happened to me several times over the past few days. Super annoying. Had multiple grabs start but then not finish and one time when the game decided I'd hit a rock instead of the Survivor literally RIGHT in front of me.
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This happened to me about a week ago too!
One of the Survivors was remote healing me while I was in chase and I was locked in the animation and couldn’t do anything about it.
Thankfully the Killer clocked on to what was happening and realised it was another player cheating and healing everyone. But it’s very scary how easy it would be for someone like this to frame you. As much as I’d like to, I find it difficult to put my trust in BHVR to properly handle these things given how many allegations of false bans we’ve seen over the years.
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@Alicia_Tried6041 said:
Because survivors deserve more pallets to defend theirselves against todays broken killers.
Or we could take the more sensible approach of addressing the "broken" Killers instead of ruining the game for all of the average Killers.
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I rarely change my badges and banners. Most of the options don't appeal to me at all, and it's not like you can actually see them when you're in a match anyways so I don't care about them that much. I'd rather have cosmetic pieces than badges.
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I didn't realise we were even getting Twitch drops. Thanks for the heads up.
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@SoGo said:
Aside foliage settings, these all sound like welcome additions.
Shame BHVR instead opted to sacrifice things like the fog to make the game smoother.
Aside foliage settings
Thought I'd clarify that I don't want the ability to be able to scale down foliage that serves a gameplay purpose (like bushes or whatever that Survivors can hide in). Just the extraneous stuff like the quality of leaves on trees on Greenville for example. They're way above the head and only serve as background decor. I don't think it would hurt to be able to reduce their quality.
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Several of these guys need updating, but Skull Merchant needs it urgently.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4014055#Comment_4014055
I think that's more the issue, a lot of the voice lines don't feel natural to say at base; I think part of the problem is they wanted Orela as a trained paramedic used to difficult situations to be tough, confident and calm, and as such she has lines that are very "lets do this" in nature... however because of that it creates a bit of a tonal contradiction and makes her quite unrelatable... she doesn't really sound at any point like she's in the high stress situation she is. She has some okay and decent lines, but others land flat.
Other characters like Nicholas Cage or Lara, they get startled by things, they they make anecdotal comments about how they feel the same way Orela does, but they all make sense in the moment, amd come with an appropriate level of self concern...
Some of Orela's lines are quite good, but others... just don't make sense to say, are a pointless/unnatural to say out loud to yourself or others, or can even come across as patronising... and it's almost like she can't be shown to be vulnerable at all, which kinda makes her not feel like a person...
Lines like:
- "St... Stupid Hook...". Comes across weird to say after having been impaled through the shoulder... why such a benign line? "Th… that hook...", as if she's showing concern, would help sell this scenario a lot better.
- "Let's hit those generators" and "Let's avoid those hooks and hit those generators". Lacks any real personality/identity, it's just stating the games objectives and pointing out the obvious. Something like "Those hooks are disgusting... how can anyone do this?" would make more sense... as a Doctor she'd be thinking about infection and the opposite of her life mission.
- "Let's try not to lose any blood". Could be any okay line as a tongue in cheek post heal comment, "more blood" might make it work... but as is it feels kinda patronising. "Hey... Stay calm, and do try to keep all your blood on the inside... OK?", would ooze so much more character... shows a little worry/vulnerability, but still putting on a brave act with some light humour.
- "If you wanna live, stick with me". Sounds strange for a paramedic to say, its kinda combative, whereas a medic is well verses in talking to people in a manner where they cooperate with you. Furthermore, she understands the potential injuries and dangers posed by the trial better than anyone, why is she so confident? It almost comes across as arrogant.... If anything she'd be more concerned than anyone else about the stakes of the trial, and trying to reassure, instead of direct people... surely? "Don't worry, I promise we're all gonna make it outta here" would fit her so much more.
- "I guess I'm off the hook" A pun... after you've just had a hook torn out of your shoulder? Not inherently bad, but you've gotta at least maintain the illusion she's in pain... adding a "Ahh... " at the start, then a small groan at the end would do so much more.
It's little touches like that, that would make her a lot more human... she isn't a Terminator, keeping calm is one thing, but a brave face doesn't mean anything if I don't believe she is actually scared and in pain.
Very well said!
she doesn't really sound at any point like she's in the high stress situation she is
This is my biggest problem with her lines. They all sound so casual — conversational almost. They’re just not tonally fitting with the things happening around her. If they were tweaked to have a bit more urgency then they could work, but right now her voice lines take me out of the game. They’re distracting rather than immersive IMO.
Your rewrites are 100x better.
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Yeah… Orela's voice lines are a miss for me. I think it's a combination of awkward delivery and bad writing. The writing is definitely the worse of the two though, because I don't think even the best VA in the world could make "Let's hit those Generators" sound good.
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A built-in monitor crosshair or something like a bit of tape on your screen is undetectable by anticheats. They couldn't ban for it even if they wanted to.
External programs that draw crosshairs over your game is sketchy though. The developers themselves are unlikely to ban you for it but if the anti-cheat flags you then they won't unban you.
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@UnicornMedal said:
That's insane that it would punish you for using the perk as intended. 😵 There's literally no other use for it than to attempt to unhook yourself.
The perk needs completely reworked. It has no place in modern DbD.
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@Royval said:
dbd2 for 10 year anniversary pls
Manifesting rn 🕯️🙌
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@UnicornMedal said:
I feel like people would get very upset about these options, thinking they'd give you a huge advantage. 😭 But they're reasonable changes and I'd welcome them.
My personal take on this is that it's not a competitive advantage if everyone has access to the same settings.
Some people might find it objectionable, but it's 2025. Not being able to indpendently lower my shadow quality is crazy 😭
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@KingOfDoom55 said:
Agreed, the graphics need a upgrade to look better
More than anything, I want some kind of other AA option. The TAA in this game is incredibly ugly. It makes everything blurry and grainy, but if you disable it then everything looks incredibly jagged and plastic. I actually don't think I've seen worse TAA than in DbD.
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Don't use Slippery Meat, ever.
The anti go next mechanic is definitely flawed, but you're not doing yourself any favours here. Slippery Meat is a throwing perk.
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I'm very much hoping they either revisit them and make them worthwhile or remove them. I don't like the amount of inventory clutter this game has.
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From what we know of the system, MMR for Survivors essentially boils down to escapes versus kills. Dying lowers your MMR, and escaping through the gates raises it. Unfortunately the system is very barebones and doesn't do a good job of determining a player's actual skill level.
There are some MMR changes on the horizon though. I believe they're slated to drop this year or next year. Hopefully they change the system to be a bit more accurate and robust.
Iron Will is a decent perk, but given that you're struggling with chases I think an Exhaustion perk would serve you a lot better. Could I ask what Survivors you play? If grunts of pain bother you, there are some Survivors that are naturally quieter like Ace or Ada that might suit you better. You might not need Iron Will on them.
If you can't or don't want to swap out Iron Will though, there's other non-Exhaustion chase perks you could go for. Resilience, Finesse, or Windows of Opportunity might be good options.
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@Ohyakno said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4013382#Comment_4013382
Please. It does not happen that often. I can go dozens of games without seeing hard tunneling. You can watch any survivor main stream and see it doesn't happen that often. The sample size is way greater than "personal experience". After a certain point people are either lying or grossly exaggerating.
https://youtu.be/HI7FFpVpgRY?si=7A5KPyjPjxXRiCPG
Nobody can ever substantiate these claims. They just say it happens "every game" and gnash their teeth. Anybody that says this: message me. We can duo queue. If we see hard tunneling in like ten games I'll get you a steam game of your choice up to 40$. Prove it.
Clocked it IMO.
I used to be of the same opinion that "I'm being tunneled all the time and it's making Survivor miserable" and then I saw this video and thought, wait he actually has a point here. You can actually check my post history and see I've complained about the abundance of camping/tunneling/slugging etc. in the past, particularly during events so I'm not just making this up here for anyone doubting.
I was fairly certain I was seeing tunneling way more than what he was saying so I decided to actually count how often it happens in my games and was faced with the realisation that me or my teammates were actually NOT being tunneled that often. At most it happens in ~2/10 matches and I was just overestimating it in my head due to negativity bias.
The vast majority of my Survivor matches were actually being ruined by OTHER Survivors. I get downvoted and hated on whenever I say this, but that's the truth. Survivors not doing gens, Survivors giving up, Survivors repeatedly making really bad plays, etc. is the reason most solo queue matches go south — not tunneling. It's just easier to blame an opponent than your own team.
I'm not saying tunneling doesn't happen — it definitely does and it is unpleasant when it crops up. But the rate people claim it happens at is verifiably untrue. Like no one has EVER proven it. For me, the claim "I'm being tunneled all the time." is just a blatant over exaggeration until I'm proven otherwise.
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No. People would just abuse to get easy matches.
A Survivor team outplayed you? Blocked.
A Killer beat you fair and square? Blocked.
And then the matchmaking times and quality get worse for everyone.
The reason this feature doesn’t exist is because it’s completely unworkable. There’s no way to implement such a thing without it being incredibly abuse able by bad actors.
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Can't say I agree with much in this video.
- Unfortunately people have been saying "DbD is dying" every other month since the game released, and it's really lost its weight for me. There's never actually been any real sustained loss of players, and I personally don't think there will be any time soon. As the video itself covers, the core playerbase is actually very stable and has been for years. Personally, I'll believe DbD is dying when I see it.
- The lack of true growth, as the video describes, is pretty easily explained by the fact that this game ultimately has a very niche target audience. Being a horror game is enough on its own to limit its potential audience, but add asymmetric on top of that and suddenly its even more narrow. Horror has definitely become more mainstream in recent years, but still does not reach anything close to the appeal of other genres, and asymmetry makes the game feel inherently unfair for casual players. Survivors feel too weak individually against a Killer, but collectively the Survivors outnumber the Killer which can make them feel "ganged up on". It works for us horror fans because it mimics the dynamics of our favourite movies, games, etc. but for casual audiences I imagine it is very off putting. If you're used to playing games where even numbers of players are matched together (like most PvP games) then DbD is very jarring to get into. People are drawn in when they see popular licenses, pick up the game, and several months later realise it's not really their thing. I don't think it's something that can be fixed. The game is simply unorthodox by nature.
- I think the absolute failure of every single other game in the genre is testament to the fact that this style of game does not have broad appeal. A lot of people point to other reasons why such games died, but usually its simply because there weren't enough players around from the get go to ever establish a stable playerbase. Take Friday the 13th for instance. A lot of people blame the lawsuit for this game's death, but the game was actually well on its way out long before the lawsuit happened. On Steam, the game peaked at around 16k players on launch, and within a couple of months it had already dwindled down to a couple of thousand regular players. The real reason the game died was because there simply wasn't ever enough interest in such a game. Of course it might have survived longer had it not been mismanaged and then caught up in a licensing dispute, but the game was always doomed to die IMO. And DbD's relative lack of growth is not surprising when viewed with that context. A game of this nature will never be able to compete with the behemoths that are symmetrical shooter games, action games, etc. It's just impossible to expect that kind of growth from DbD.
- The technical debt is one part of this video I agree with. It's obvious BHVR are overextending themselves with the rate they're putting out new content and have been for years. The only way the number of bugs will ever decrease is if they stop putting them out quicker than they can fix them. And to do that they'd need to reduce their output of new content. It's something they should've scaled back long ago for the long-term health of the game.
- DbD 2 is not feasible. It sucks, but it just isn't. To use his own words, it's very easy to talk when you're talking about someone else's money. Investing in a project like DbD 2 only to have it fail is something that could very easily take out an entire company. Could it work? Absolutely. But the risk is so big that no sane business would ever attempt it. BHVR are a much bigger company than a lot of people think, but nowhere near big enough to be able to shoulder a financial loss a project like that could bring.
- Don't get me wrong, I would LOVE a DbD 2. To see this game remade from the ground up and finally fix its longstanding issues would be a dream come true. But it's also just that — a dream. It's not something that I think is at all realistic, and I don't begrudge BHVR for not attempting it. I'd rather have a buggy DbD 1 than have them attempt and fail a DbD 2 which causes us to lose both.
- The notion that BHVR should've done a sequel as early as the Halloween Chapter's release is kind of silly… No one remakes their entire game from the ground up after only 5 months of it existing… Like… I really tried to understand the logic here but this one is a huge reach. The only reason we're able to say that would've been a good idea is with the gift of hindsight. Unless BHVR had a clairvoyant on their team, expecting them to be able to predict the heights this game would reach (and thus a recode would become necessary) is completely unreasonable.
- The other projects brought up in the video are completely unrelated for the most part. Criticising BHVR's misadventures with the likes of MYM or Deathgarden is valid, because it was entirely their own creation but the other titles they've worked on have nothing to do with the DbD or its shortcomings. BHVR staff were being hired to work on other companies' games long before DbD was a thing. It's not something they're facilitating by siphoning off of DbD's financial success, it's something they've always been doing independently of DbD.
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@Wezqu said:
I think the rift being "bad" is because they are pooling up resources for the bug fixing and quality of life issues. There is no point to use resources to anything else than getting the game in state that people will be happy about as currently it clearly is not that. They clearly still want to keep developing the game otherwise they would not use resources to fix it. About the Skull Merchant skin for halloween could also hint that they might release the rework for her before halloween so she would be in better state. They haven't been really vocal of the updates to characters as Shape's rework was quite a surprise to people. Hopefully this all means they are really getting the game to good state.
- AFAIK the Skull Merchant rework won't be happening until at least next year. We don't have an exact timeframe but there's zero chance of it happening before Halloween.
- Bug fixing and QoL improvements shouldn't affect the art team at all. They're artists, not programmers, and so allocating them to working on game health makes no sense.
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4012970#Comment_4012970
I think you’re probably right. But the only data they’re going to gather from me is “player didn’t log in for three weeks during map testing” 😂
Hahah I imagine that's going to be true for a lot of people. Luckily as an Onryo, the stacked maps like Gideon and Midwich kind of work well for me so I don't mind too much but the repetition is starting to get somewhat tedious even for me.
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
For some unknown and infuriating reason, certain maps are getting boosted. It seems to be pissing off a lot of players, and I’m pretty sure nobody has been asking for this, so it’s a mystery why BHVR is doing this. I guess as long as the player count stays stable, there’s no reason for them to stop doing it.
I have a conspiracy theory that they've intentionally boosted the most hated maps (indoor ones) as a means to collect some stats on them or something. There's talk of them doing something big with maps next year — reworks perhaps?
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@dramafinesseXD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4012523#Comment_4012523
this is so true and it’s sad because you get this perk twice and half the time it doesn’t work if you miss it you don’t get it back
Yeah, like I wouldn't mind the perk having such limited uses if it was actually functional and responsive, but currently it's just "Press E and die anyways" lol
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Current DH is too unreliable for me to put it in my builds. Only getting one attempt at it per hook state is too limiting given how badly this game is affected by ping and wonky hitboxes. They should make it so after you've been hooked once, it works like any other Exhaustion perk and can be reused once you're no longer Exhausted.
I've ended up Exhausted and on the ground too many times to run this perk anymore. Which is a shame, because it's one of the few Exhaustion perks that are actually interesting. SB and Lithe are so boring.
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@QwQw said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4012025#Comment_4012025
"Without his armor he could be stabbed."
It's certainly one of the sentences of all time 🤣
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@Caiman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4011963#Comment_4011963
I even miss old cosmetic flavor text. They had more personality to them. Now every cosmetic goes for a serious and grim mini "story" but it rarely lands and just feels bland to read. And then there was the time where every cosmetic only had a single short sentence without any detail or color.
Absolutely!
There's a je ne sais quoi missing from the descriptions these days. I used to always go through and read the little lore tidbits that came with new cosmetics but I rarely do these days. Only for characters I'm particularly invested in. Even then, they don't quite land the same, as you say. Although exactly what's off about them I'm not sure. The tone I think? They almost feel like they exist sort of as jusitifications for the gaudy cosmetics. It's like the developers are aware the concepts of some of these fits are getting a bit silly so they try and reel it back in with a gritty flavour text, but it doesn't quite work.
Like "Rin lost everything, and in her last moments she swore revenge on her murderous father" doesn't really feel tonally appropriate for a cosmetic where she's made of stained glass and has purple spikes everywhere lol. It's a little goofy.
It's still better than the era of this though I suppose🤣
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4011951#Comment_4011951
Absolutely. Not to get all fashion critic, but it feels borderline sinful some of the stuff we get. I'm not going to match a pattern with a pattern. 😭 Sometimes we need denim and solid colors to balance some of the crazier stuff. Why can't we have a cute brown leather bomber jacket or a black button up? A great example of that is that citrus shirt for Dwight years ago. It's loud, but that's fine because it's still practical and can mesh with lots of things. I'm constantly finding myself stuck where I think one piece would be fantastic with the right top or bottom, but it doesn't exist. Instead we're getting more and more stuff that can't be mixed or matched.
Honestly took the words out of my mouth. Me and my duo joke often that we spend more time dressing up our characters than actually playing 🤣
It's definitely getting harder to cook up good outfits though. There's not enough "neutrals". All of their original Survivors should have a store option for a plain shirt and pair of jeans in a couple of standard colours (like black or navy or something) IMO. They already have the meshes because the Twitch/Iron Maiden shirts exist. They'd just need to recolour them.
When I saw the Axekick shirts that came with the latest Chapter I was so excited thinking I could have a plain(ish) black t-shirt to mix and match with on all the Survivors but it turns out they only added it for like four Survivors 😭
A great example of that is that citrus shirt for Dwight years ago. It's loud, but that's fine because it's still practical and can mesh with lots of things
True. A lot of the older cosmetics in this game are great for combo-ing. I wish we'd see more in that style: fun but relatively simple.
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@fussy said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/VMQHU5LBRUEB/7bef7c342a-eabb-4e8f-b0f4-da1866798530-7d.png
Nevermind. They didn't even test these skins once.
Seeing this up close has me wondering how on earth the scissors in the original concept art got translated as two knives (?) stuck together in one arm and a saw (?) in the other. I actually don't understand what either of the things he's holding are supposed to be. Like, it was very clearly a pair of fabric scissors in the original artwork and now its a pair of nondescript blades.
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4011934#Comment_4011934
Definitely. If something is silver and gold and it clashes, it's whatever. But a pair of pants with 5 colors is not going to match very much at all. A gigantic black and bright blue mullet is going right into the junk pile.
I think back to the older collections and while they weren't perfect either, they at least gave me lots of room for play. I still get so much mileage out of the Mean Streets collection to this day.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4011937#Comment_4011937
It's a tragedy. I liked Thalita's skirt and boots combo from the metal rift in addition to David's tops. But other than that, it was a big waste of money.
Mean Streets collection to this day
True! Mean Streets is a real treasure trove.
I also personally miss getting good base-outfit recolours. Vee is the first character in a while that I feel had good ones. We've had a few years where the recolours have had kind of weird colour schemes or patterns.
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@Caiman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4011903#Comment_4011903
I really don't enjoy how the last few Rifts have been so heavily themed. I want clothing, not cosplays or high fashion. You used to get a variety of outfits with maybe a broad idea uniting them that still allowed for variety. Now everything is a single specific idea that everything adheres to and I don't think any of them look good outside of one or two exceptions. I don't want to wear this junk on my characters.
So true. They're just going too overboard with the concepts. Like you can make a Rift themed around "growth" without having literal flowers stuck to every part of the outfit. A Rift a few years ago with the same theme would've just given us a selection of wearable outfits with some floral print or. Or a united green/brown colour scheme or something. Now though they're being way too literal with the theme.
Same with the "tomb" themed Rift we just had. You can convey the idea of a bones without having to stick actual bones to a pair of trousers (they did Thalita dirty with that lol).
And now we have… stained glass… It's such an incredibly niche concept that I'm baffled who approved it. 🤣
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@UnicornMedal said:
I've said this a lot, but I'm going to go gloves off this time. Again, all of this is my opinion.
Cosmetics are getting uglier in general, and the Rift is the epicenter of a lot of that. Just talking heads alone, the styles are so cosplay-wig adjacent with that Playdough-y Fortnite look to it. We're getting ugly glasses and ugly piercings on top of that too. Then when it comes to the outfits, they're real hit or miss. That top for Jake with the denim jacket was cute, but the sports bra was absolutely not. If we wanted to go Sleepaway Camp, there was a much better way of doing so. And David's outfit from the metal Rift was borderline offensive, how HIDEOUS it was. I use the top sometimes, but even that is hard to match with his existing cosmetics. The game has always had issues with encouraging play with the cosmetics, but it's getting worse as time goes on. Sets that don't match anything but themselves. Vittorio is a fantastic example of that with his tattoos. Why would you make a set that changes them red when most of them are blue?
I could rant for days about it. But if they want us to play dress up, give us SOMETHING. Ugly stuff that doesn't match anything is encouraging me not to spend money.
Agreed. Trying to mix and match with the high-concept outfits they keep giving us is a nightmare. I appreciate they base the Rifts around themes, but they also need to make sure the outfits are wearable! Yun-Jin's is probably the only outfit this Rift that strikes a good balance between fitting the theme and being wearable. The hairstyle, at least, pairs well with a lot of her stuff. Most of the others are too overboard.
They need to remember that this game is not Fortnite, and practicality also needs to be considered. Long, flowy dresses whose physics regularly break and obscure the game are not practical. Outfits so white that they're practicaly luminous are not practical. And neither are weapons that are so big they block the screen.
I've long been a huge defender of the art team in this game. For years they were the only part of this game to consistently deliver quality content. But in the past few years things have gotten kind of messy…
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Twins are a very solid Killer. They're just not very popular because:
- They don't follow the standard gameplay loop, and instead rely on "controversial" strategies like slugging way more than the average Killer.
- They have a reputation for being buggy, even if its no longer strictly true. They probably still have more bugs than the average Killer, but not enough to make them unplayable as a lot of people think.
- Their strength level is very volatile depending on the current meta. The MFT or Buckle Up + FTP metas indirectly nerfed Twins pretty hard when they were around.
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@SoGo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4011805#Comment_4011805
It may be true.
I would understand if they only emptied out the free track (so you have more fomo, incentive to buy the paid rift, ect.)
But the fact that half of the paid rift is empty SCREAMS that something happened.
Yeah that was my hunch too. Also Claudette temporarily missing a head piece due to BHVR not being happy with the quality (according to their Twitter) sounds to me like something has gone awry. Very much hoping this is not repeated for future Rifts.
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@SoGo said:
The worst part is how little there is.
6 original skins, not even any recolored old skins, and 2 community skins, one of which is unplayable.
Every other rift had at least double of that.
Yeah it's painfully empty. I have to believe something went wrong internally and some deadlines couldn't be met or something, because if this was an intentional decision then it's very insulting.
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Currently, some maps that Onryo excels on (e.g. Midwich, The Game) have boosted chances of appearing and so people are taking the opportunity to play her while she's indirectly buffed by the map pool. Indoor and stacked maps work much better for her than the average Killer.
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All they needed to do was just revert the perk. They keep making extra work for themselves over things no one wants. Just revert it and be done with it.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4011441#Comment_4011441
@OnryosTapeRentals there's the call for intent policing I was talking about lol
Don't @ me over comments I have nothing to do with, thanks.
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@Sava18 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4011167#Comment_4011167
I will always bring up how in league, the game a ton of people think has a worse community than dbd this isn't a problem. You'll watch someone blame someone completely, say they're going to run it down and afk, then they don't. They go mid, they go side, the go farm and then most of the time show up to fights too. You can't leave the game, you can't afk, you can't type very harshly at all anymore, you can't hard int anymore. Best you can do is soft grief and that's more work than actually playing, so people actually play. That's the key line, when it's more work to leave/grief the game people will play it out. They'll go sit on a gen.
The "they'll just grief the game in a different way" has always been conjecture because we really have never had a decent period in dbd where people were forced to stay in the game in all forms.
Even if the devs fix that "root causes" that everyone has been saying since I joined this forum, the mentality is so ingrained in survivors they will keep doing it. Most of the time people bring up survivors dcing on this forum it's because they are doing it over nothing, not because of whatever semi understandable thing happened to them that game.
Is there any real reason not to add in these penalties and also fix the issues people have with it? So we punished tunneling, slugging, camping and whatever other reason, can we also put the penalties in too? I see 0 reason not to.
If you do reply please do not say but this is an assym.
Very well said. Agree completely.
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Hopefully they forgot it, I hated that game.
I'm kidding. I'm assuming they heard the backlash of making him just a skin and have shelved it for now to do something else with him. Maybe they'll do a Chapter after all. They could've also just not been happy with the quality of the skin and postponed it to do some finishing touches. Someone on Twitter said they were apparently going to do that with a Claudette skin in the next Rift. So that's a possibility ig.
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4011330#Comment_4011330
What? Two free DCs and then penalties that get aggressively worse, don't count down outside of the queue, and only degrade after 20 trials is lighter than penalties that naturally decay every 24 hours?
Yes. What matters is the immediacy of them. Allowing someone to DC from a match and instantly requeue encourages this lobby-shopping style of gameplay. The penalties getting aggressively worse is meaningless if the first ones are free because these people are avoiding reaching those stages. 20 matches is not that much for someone whose main or only game is DbD. The first few DCs are the crucial ones to target. There needs to be an immediate penalty that delays the requeuing. Even if it is just short like 60 seconds or a couple of minutes.
When DCing and requeuing is quicker than naturally playing out the rest of the match, people have no incentive to stay. If anything (or nothing) happens that they dislike? They just DC and find a match they deem "better" (which is an abitrary metric these days but still) in record time
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4011314#Comment_4011314
Wasn't doubting you, just pointing out that if people are DC'ing so often, then they are getting hit with the penalty.
Well, no. Because you can get multiple free DCs and only then do the too-short penalties start to kick in.
Revert them to how they used to work and then they'll actually get hit with the penalties.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4011264#Comment_4011264
Still not what I'm saying. I am against further punishment without addressing common pain points.
Because we have never seen a flat-out reduction in "give up" events. We have seen them shift from DC'ing into suicides back into DC'ing. If we continue to double-down and never address anything else, we will start to see calls for further policing.
This point is just moronic, and I don't think you really mean it. Of course it matters what causes it. Of course it matters why people are frustrated. Whether or not you think it's justified is down to personal opinion at the end of the day, but saying it doesn't matter why is just silly.
I suppose we'll see. Considering that pretty much everything I predicted would happen when DC penalties got introduced as happened, I think I'm probably right. Especially if nothing else changes.
BHVR doesn't revert things like that. Neither will you. Even if it doesn't work, we'll be stuck with it because the second you say the phrase, "We're loosening penalties" people will go absolutely feral and DC en masse. Nobody will want that, so they'll keep the system.
"We're loosening penalties" people will go absolutely feral and DC en masse
You've contradicted your own points repeatedly so far, as @tes has already pointed out but this one is easily the most egregious. You've said that they can't (in the hypothetical scenario) loosen the DC penalities because everyone will just DC. Which is the exact thing that is literally happening right now because they lowered the DC penalties several patches back. If loosening a penalty would encourage DCing, then why can you not accept that raising it would discourage it? This is straight doublethink.
The DCing is happening because there's no proper penalty. That's it. Not having a proper penalty in place is allowing players with unsportsmanlike attitudes to abandon any matches they want for any reason. This huge wave of DCing started when they dropped the penalties. Penalise them properly again and it will stop. All of this talk of "longstanding frustrations" or whatever else is just an intentional attempt to muddy the waters and make them seem deep, when it's actually incredibly simple. Low/no penalties = DCs. Penalties = No DCs. That's it.
This point is just moronic, and I don't think you really mean it. Of course it matters what causes it. Of course it matters why people are frustrated. Whether or not you think it's justified is down to personal opinion at the end of the day, but saying it doesn't matter why is just silly.
I wholeheartedly stand by what I said. I do not care whatsoever about the cause of it. The feelings of people who consistently abandon their teammates in a PvP game do not matter at all to me. I literally don't think it's worth listening to anything they have to say about the game because they're going out of their way to cause it immense harm. These players don't get to do everything they can to sabotage a role and in the same breath complain about how bad the role is. You can call me moronic for that but it doesn't change my opinion.
From some of your other comments it sounds like you don't actually play the game anymore. And with that context, your point makes more sense because you don't actually have to deal with the behaviour that you're defending. And that is how this comes across to me. There's nothing that could reasonably qualify "I am against further punishment" when it comes to repeated DCing for me. The end of your sentence does not justify the start and only serves to enable bad behaviour IMO.
Of course you're perfectly entitled to that opinion, but I think it's a harmful one. But I'm sure you'd say the same thing about mine so I guess we're at an impasse.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4011288#Comment_4011288
And yet we have people in here claiming they see DC's in a third of their matches, iirc.
People are getting the penalties. They just don't care.
I have no idea if that's true, for the record. The last update I heard was that it was match-based. You have to play a certain number of matches in order to clear the record. I haven't heard any announcements stating this was changed. Do you have any of that information so I can read it?
And yet we have people in here claiming they see DC's in a third of their matches, iirc.
I am experiencing this in around a third of my games. AND I'll even give you some of the reecpts. My last 10 games as per the official DbD stats website:
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@tes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4011287#Comment_4011287
IT IS NO SYSTEM!!! LITERALLY!!!
You aren't getting DC ban that strict anymore, you literally can freely DC without punishment two times per 24 hours
This. I don't understand how people aren't getting this. DCs are literally free right now. That's why everyone is just DCing. All they need to do is reinstate proper penalties! That's it. Everyone is acting like it's an impossible task or something when the solution is so simple.
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Would also like to see this standardised. Either Perks should work with Killer powers, or they shouldn't. Right now it's very inconsistent and needlessly confusing.
Same goes for Vault perks. Why does Bamboozle trigger when you vault with a Killer power but Unbound doesn't? Either they both should work or neither should.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4011208#Comment_4011208
I can do nothing to change how you feel, but don't put words in my mouth simply because you disagree with my position.
What I am trying to say is that this has been building over years. It isn't justified, but I have been able to see this coming since at least 2021. People have reached their breaking point with DBD, and yes, they should take a break. It clearly isn't doing them any good sticking around. However, this has been building for a long time. I am sure the recent walk-back of changes and then the release of Krasue has intensified these feelings.
The system we have already bans innocent players. Anti Go-Next grabs people who get tunneled already. Any attempts to make the system stricter or to expand the scope will grab more innocent players. That is what will happen.
I will rephrase. I suspect you know that the community will never come together like that. It is theoretically possible that it would work out the way you hope if they did, but they will not unite on this.
No. If people aren't having fun, they will find a way to give up. Even when DC penalties were at their strictest, there was a ton of DC'ing and giving up.
Every time we have tried to play wack-a-mole with this issue, it simply slides and turns into something else. People will always find a way to get out of a game they find unfun. That is human nature. You have to be prepared to see this path through to the logical conclusion, which is trying to police intent. If not, perhaps we should reconsider?
I can do nothing to change how you feel, but don't put words in my mouth simply because you disagree with my position.
No words are being put in your mouth. If you're against punishing people for DCing then you're on the side of DCing. It's that simple to me. I apologise if you feel that's unjust, but I really do believe that.
The system we have already bans innocent players. Anti Go-Next grabs people who get tunneled already. Any attempts to make the system stricter or to expand the scope will grab more innocent players. That is what will happen.
Pray tell, where have you seen me ask for the go-next prevention system to be made any stricter? Where have you seen me mention that system at all in fact? I'm talking about DC penalties and DC penalties alone. THEY need to be stricter. Going next in that manner was adequately addressed by removing escape attempts. The solution to preventing give ups is to make it inconvenient — not impossible.
I suspect you know that the community will never come together like that
Yeah because y'all are refusing to take a stand on it. Handwaving it away with "Well frustrations have been mounting for a long time" every time this gets brought up does nothing to help. It's completely inconsequential whether or not they've been mounting for a day, a week, a month, or years. It's completely inconsequential whether said frustrations even exist. The point is that a lot of players are engaing in rulebreaking, unsportsmanlike behaviour and it should be dealt with (whatever the reason behind it) as rulebreaking, unsportsmanlike behaviour. And instead of that the comments on these posts are always just feeding into it.
It is theoretically possible that it would work out the way you hope if they did, but they will not unite on this.
It would 100% work but y'all aren't doing it so idek what to say. Again, this is a problem that the players themselves have cooked up.
Every time we have tried to play wack-a-mole with this issue, it simply slides and turns into something else.
Well, yeah. Because when they address one part of it (like removing unhook attempts) they weaken the other half of it (DC penalties). If you make it harder to go next on hook but then give people multiple free DCs a day of course the problem won't be solved. They just self sabotaged their own solution. Revert DC penalties to be as strict as they were previously, and the DCs will go down. That's it. All of this slippery slope talk is just that — talk. It won't happen. The automated system to detect going next is silly — it'll never work ina game with so many variables. But a simple DC penalty and inability to let go on hook WILL. No one is going to hatch these convoluted plans to get around all of the proposed penalties you keep listing because A) those additional penalties won't be needed and B) It's too much effort, and the chronic DCers will just stop playing.
You have to be prepared to see this path through to the logical conclusion, which is trying to police intent
I do not understand the insistence on taking this to extreme hypotheticals. The game is not going to drop dead if they toughen the DC penalties, please. All they need is to test it. Give it a month, and if it doesn't work revert it and no harm was done. But if it does work — which it WILL — then perfect. Problem solved.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4011159#Comment_4011159
My advocacy is for addressing root problems instead of band-aid fixing things, not for DC'ing. I am stating again that I am not advocating for DC'ing, but rather for addressing causes.
Like I said, I do not know why you brought it up. It is clear that the reasons do not matter to you, so I do not know why you brought up what you thought people were DC'ing over. Even if it wasn't trivial, in your opinion, it wouldn't matter.
So BHVR should continue to add in Killers like SM? Things they know people hate and people should just take it, right? That's the right thing to do? They should release more Killers like Krasue and Ghoul in an extremely overpowered state and then never adjust them. I don't think either attitude is entirely correct.
Community is different than BHVR, thank you for clarifying.
So, all we need to do is somehow get everyone on the same page by enforcing some kind of groupthink and then start banning normal players! Make no mistake, that's exactly what you are asking for.
Let's break down exactly what will happen. You will never achieve your first objective, and I suspect you already know that.
We up the DC penalty. Let's say we make it far more punishing, the first is an hour ban. The second is a 24-hour ban. Three times? A week. So on and so forth.
What will people do? Well, they can't DC and they can't suicide. They will AFK.
Alright, well, let's ban for inactivity, same penalties as before.
Now they can't AFK, DC or suicide. People start running to the Killer.
We can ban for that too, if you get hit without making enough distance post-hit, you get banned like if you DC'd!
Now they can't DC, run to Killer, suicide or AFK! People start soft-throwing chases.
Now you have to start banning for intent.
Does this seem like a path you wish to pursue?
My advocacy is for addressing root problems instead of band-aid fixing things, not for DC'ing. I am stating again that I am not advocating for DC'ing, but rather for addressing causes.
And I'm telling you that I don’t think the root causes exist and so your advocacy starts and ends with defending DCing IMO. It's a symptom of bad atittude and not any problem with game balance. As evidenced by the fact that this problem has ALWAYS existed regardless of the state of game balance, and happens consistently regardless of the state of the match.
Like I said, I do not know why you brought it up. It is clear that the reasons do not matter to you, so I do not know why you brought up what you thought people were DC'ing over. Even if it wasn't trivial, in your opinion, it wouldn't matter.
The reason doesn't matter to me, but it does to you. Which is why I brought it up. I'm trying to explain that the "frustrated with game issues" argument doesn't track, because these people are giving up left and right in games where said issues are NOT even happening. A match can be going as well as humanly possible for one side and they'll still just DC. You would've been correct a year or two ago when DCs were mostly reserved for a very early down, or a tunnel out, or some other situation that seems untenable. But these people have taken it too far and now just give up over anything or nothing. There's no rhyme or reason to it anymore. You can play the least offensive Killer possible, in the least offensive way and they're still going to DC. So the "average game is miserable and that's why they DC" thing just doesn't work. Because even when the games are good, they're STILL abandoning. Therefore the conclusion I come to is that these people don’t like DbD.
So BHVR should continue to add in Killers like SM? Things they know people hate and people should just take it, right? That's the right thing to do? They should release more Killers like Krasue and Ghoul in an extremely overpowered state and then never adjust them. I don't think either attitude is entirely correct.
No. They should try their best to find a balance between fun to play and fun to verse. But naturally, they're not always going to get it right and sometimes there's Killers you hate for non-balance reasons. Of course BHVR needs to address the former ASAP, but the latter is inevitable and people need to accept that that is just part of the game and that if they want to play it, they're going to see such characters. DCing is not an appropriate response (unless there's medical reasons like your migraines, but that's an accessibility issue and not what most of these players are doing).
and then start banning normal players! Make no mistake, that's exactly what you are asking for.
You're intentionally taking my point and conflating it with the most extreme position someone could possibly hold on this issue in order to discredit me. No, normal players shouldn't be banned.
Let's break down exactly what will happen. You will never achieve your first objective, and I suspect you already know that.
No. I don't know that. I truly, wholeheartedly, believe that if people stopped responding in this manner to DCing that it would go away. Seriously. I legitemately think that it's a behaviour that is primarily being enabled by the community. You might think that's naive, but I truly believe that. 100%.
We up the DC penalty. Let's say we make it far more punishing, the first is an hour ban. The second is a 24-hour ban. Three times? A week. So on and so forth.
What will people do? Well, they can't DC and they can't suicide. They will AFK.
Alright, well, let's ban for inactivity, same penalties as before.
Now they can't AFK, DC or suicide. People start running to the Killer.
We can ban for that too, if you get hit without making enough distance post-hit, you get banned like if you DC'd!
Now they can't DC, run to Killer, suicide or AFK! People start soft-throwing chases.
Now you have to start banning for intent.
No, they won't. People are greatly perturbed by minor inconveniences. As soon as giving up becomes any more involved than having to hit a DC button or let go on hook, most of the playerbase doing it will stop. Of course there will be a determined minority who will go to great lengths to bypass anything you do, but most won't. It's human nature. As soon as you make it even a little bit more tricky, most reconsider. It’s the principle behind a great many things in society.
All that needs doing is to make it so the first DC is no longer free. 60 seconds or maybe 2 minute for the first DC. It’s short enough not to be overly punishing for legitimate emergencies/crashes but long enough to make players have to wait before their next match so they can no longer DC and be in another game within 30 seconds.
Most of your list is moot because:
A. Most of these things are bannable anyways. AFKing is already detected and punished.
B. It would never come to this anyways, at least not for most players. Most people value their time enough that if “going next” involves having to run to the Killer and go through all the hooks/unhooks that they’ll deem it not worth it.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4011116#Comment_4011116
Saying something isn't going to have the effect you think it will isn't defending an action. That's called criticism of an idea.
You can see into the hearts and minds of your opponents? You can see what is going on? You saw their previous matches? You saw everything their teammates did? You claim, so assuredly, that you know why. I think that's rather arrogant and likely contributes to your view. Of course, the real thing here is that it doesn't matter why. I'm not even sure why you brought it up.
Have you considered that things can be unfun without being strong? Legion, for example, isn't a strong Killer but they are uniquely unfun to play against. In yesteryear, we had Old Mori's where you'd get tunneled off of hook and finish the match with 2K BP. The issue is that BHVR keeps adding mechanics and Killers that people hate going against. The only time I DC consistently is against Dredge. I would rather eat the penalty than be given a migraine by Nightfall, I apologize for that. I am not advocating for doing that, but BHVR could've designed the Killer to…idk not do that?
No, it really wouldn't. First off, hacking is tolerated lmao. BHVR gave away millions of free accounts to hackers.
Second of all, how would you even go about this? Eventually, you have to start policing intent and punishing bad play.
Saying something isn't going to have the effect you think it will isn't defending an action. That's called criticism of an idea.
If you want to obfuscate it that badly then sure. Your advocacy for giving up (which is explicity against the game's rules) to go unpunished totally doesn't enable said behaviour. Right.
You can see into the hearts and minds of your opponents? You can see what is going on? You saw their previous matches? You saw everything their teammates did? You claim, so assuredly, that you know why. I think that's rather arrogant and likely contributes to your view. Of course, the real thing here is that it doesn't matter why. I'm not even sure why you brought it up.
There's no justifiable reason for abandoning your matches except for real-life obligations/emergencies. And there's ZERO way that these people are having an emergency every other match. No ifs and buts. No "but what about their previous matches?". I don't care about that. I wasn't in their previous matches — I did nothing to make their previous matches bad. Therefore ruining MY match because THEY had bad rounds beforehand will not fly with me. Sorry, no sympathy at all. I don't care anymore. You had several bad matches prior? Okay, then stop playing. Simple.
This "well I had several bad matches in a row and bad teammates and so I was frustrated and that's why I DCed 30 seconds into the game." narrative doesn't work because NO ONE is forcing them to continue to play. They can CLOSE the game, securing their own and everyone else's peace of mind. They are CREATING this problem for themselves and then dragging everyone else down with them. It's completely selfish, indefensible behaviour and ought to be punished in the same way any other rulebreaking is.
Have you considered that things can be unfun without being strong? Legion, for example, isn't a strong Killer but they are uniquely unfun to play against. In yesteryear, we had Old Mori's where you'd get tunneled off of hook and finish the match with 2K BP. The issue is that BHVR keeps adding mechanics and Killers that people hate going against.
Again. Sorry, but I don't care. That's how DbD works. There's 40+ Killers now and it is inevitable not everyone is going to like versing all of them. Strong or weak. Fun or not. I don't care. When you boot up the game you KNOW you could be going against anything, including the Killers you don't like. If you can't handle that maturely, then don't queue.
There are plenty of Killers I hate. Xenomorph for one. Can't stand it. And yet, when I see Xeno, I play the match out anyways. Because I signed up to do so. Because it's a team game and I have an obligaiton to my teammates. That's what being a good sport is. This is how I know the giving up is an attitude problem. Because I have plenty of frustrations with this game and I don't do it. My duo has lots of things they don't like about this game and they don't do it either. There are many, many others in the same boat. With longstanding frustrations who play their games out anyways, because it's the PROPER thing to do. Period.
First off, hacking is tolerated lmao. BHVR gave away millions of free accounts to hackers.
No it isn't. The community does not tolerate hackers in the same way it does give ups. Hackers are almost unanimously hated. No one would ever say "Oh well they're just hacking because they're frustrated with the game." Because we all know it's just not about that. It's an attitude issue. Cheaters break the rules because they don't care about the integrity of the game. I'm sure there are plenty of cheaters who go their cheats because they were losing, but that reason doesn't matter. You still have to be a certain type of person to cheat, regardless of how "understandable" your reasoning behind it is. Giving up is the EXACT same.
But for some reason giving up gets a pass. Whenever it gets brought up you'll have a crowd of people going "Oh but it's just because X, Y, or Z." And it shouldn't. The reason doesn't matter when the action is hurting innocent players. Period.
Also the free acounts thing was a blunder. Obviously BHVR don't endorse people cheating at their own game.
Second of all, how would you even go about this? Eventually, you have to start policing intent and punishing bad play.
This is just making a mountain out of molehill. This issue is easily fixable:
- As a community stop endorsing the "go next" mentality.
- Strengthen the DC penalty system.
That's literally all you need to do.