NuclearBurrito
NuclearBurrito
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@Well_Placed_HexTotem said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/377387#Comment_377387
Ok, so we’re going to buff the heck out of the solo UI to compensate for supposed massive killer buffs to combat SWF.
So what happens when those killers go against SWF who now have built in totem counters and buffed aura reading?
Furthermore there are tons of high quality solo players. Personally I find myself getting less kills against solo players because they simply do gens and leave. They don’t mess around with being toxic or overly altruistic.
Solo doesn’t need all of these buffs. Give them default Kindred, that’s about as extreme a buff that is needed.
You know. Kindred is a much more extreme buff than any of my suggestions. Especially considering that most of them are just things that should have been there from the start.
SWF's with these features are no stronger than SWF is now. They already had access to that information through VC so they aren't being given anything they didn't already have.
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Nothing to do with fairness since the DS and those other perks you mentioned don't interact with them in any special way. But sure
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the one in the patch notes. The in game one is a relic from PTB
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@HeroLives said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/377477#Comment_377477
@HavelmomDaS1 I didn’t ignore your point, my point is you had more ######### matches as solo in red ranks due to boosted teammates. Solo isn’t as “nerfed” as everyone is making it out to be. People love to exaggerate. Solo isn’t hard if you play like you have a brain. Solo is harder than swf for sure, but you have to realize when you play solo you must makes moves that either benefit your survival, and keeping your team alive long enough to help insure it. Solo isn’t hard when you realize your accountable for your own in game mistakes Bc you can’t depend on the team Bc to them you’re “the random in the group” it doesn’t matter how efficient you are ,you’re expendable to them. Sometimes when you get an unselfish group they acknowledge your efficiency, and they’ll do what they can. I wouldn’t be surprised once people figure out pipping that soloing should be much better, not worse.
There are perks you can use in game to close the gap between solo and swf here’s a few:
bond, alert, aftercare, empathy, premonition
if you pick one for team aura , and one for killer location then you can add whatever else you want to as the last two slots. There you go gap closed. If you can’t take a lap before last gen for noed or learn when to let them get the door or break noed , and when to let them die(looking at you swf in the basement, and snowballing each other, Bc snowballing is never the answer to your problems), then you’re going to have a hard life as solo.You don’t have a team when you solo , you have YOU. It’s supposed to be harder. You can do better as solo than you can as swf if you’re game knowledged enough. My point is you don’t need all that if you’re skilled enough. You just have to be observant and think your moves through.
The point is that if you are in SWF then you can avoid taking those perks thus giving you 2 extra perk slots. Then you can also drop self care for a total of 3 saved perk slots. That over 4 players means SWF effectively have 12 extra perks over solo's
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@Yamaoka said:
I tested something today. I let my friend play (inexperienced dbd player) because she wanted to try the new killer. When the survivors won all of them would dance at the gates, hide in the map, do 360s, teabag, point finger etc.
After that game the same survivors joined the lobby so I played instead of my friend and I picked insidious Leatherface and camped at 5 gens nodding my head and messaged all of them "gg ez" after winning in like 3 minutes. NONE of them replied. 2 of them rage quit so I reported them on top of that. Fun times.
What I'm trying to say is: If you camp them and they're nice and say gg they probably think "better be nice or he'll facecamp you all the time".
Also survivors now have no actual free escape perk anymore. The new decisive strike does NOTHING if you run enduring which I do all the time. With enduring it's kinda fun to get d-striked because the stun animation is so fast and short. In fact it wants me to get d-striked. I like the new decisive. Makes tunneling hella fun. Thanks devs! 😂
Got it. In order to stop toxicity I should have someone incompetent pretend to be me and then actually show up when the least expect it and be as much of an ######### as possible. Clearly that will solve all of our problems.
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@Gamzello said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/374496#Comment_374496
@Lanis_ SWF keeps this game alive though and some people just play for fun. You also have to remember that. Ranking up at the moment is difficult for killers, which means you’ll have more time in mid/lower ranks unless you 4K with 9 hooks every game but that’s not realistic now, is it?
There is a statistic back from January of this year that the escape rate is at least 30% which isn’t even half. That’s insane tbh.
With DS nerfed, survivors will have to adapt now just like they did with the healing nerfs. It sucks, but it also gives you a challenge to improve more.
In the end of it all; it is just a game.
Just pointing out. An escape rate of 30% isn't just expected but desirable.
Remember that this isn't technically a team game, but rather 5 separate teams, 4 of which are not opposing each other. Since the core idea of balance is that all players have an equal chance of winning that means whatever number you come up with needs to add up to allowing for that.
Given how DBD works the number of winners in a single game is somewhere between 4 (0k) and 1 (4k or 3k). So thus the winrates should be between 20% (every game is a 3k or a 4k with equal odds) and 50% (every game is a 0k or a 4k with equal odds). Any other number doesn't allow for it to be consistent.
And then since having the game be binary either 0k/3k/4k or whatever has problematic implications ect and is kinda bland that means you don't want your winrates to ACTUALLY be 50% or 20%. So you have it somewhere inbetween, like 40% or in this case 30%.
30% in particular actually has some interesting side effects. Such as the fact that you can have it be perfectly balanced no matter how many players are currently alive. All 4 and it is 30%. Just 1 and it is 50%. Ect, ect ect. You don't HAVE to balance it like that but if your winrate is 30% then you can if you want to. I did the math for it awhile back on a different thread. I find this kind of statistics fascinating
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But what are these points even for anyways? I don't particularly care about ranks, but even if I did how are these points helping me do that? What are these points building up to?
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It's just a bug. Not a real nerf. Calm down
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It's literally just a bait. Chill out
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@Condorloco_26 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/373706#Comment_373706
It says it will deactivate on *the next* time you're downed. Deactivation requires previous activation.
Thus if it's not active and the survivor is downed, there's no deactivation. This means if the survivor is downed in 2 hits, getting either slugged, hooked, partially or fully healed doesn't matter, he already has 2 "tokens". He only needs to get hit once more in any circumstance for the perk to activate.
I hope not. You should need to actually escape the chase somehow
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@tizzi717 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/373767#Comment_373767
distraction noise,or fast vault to do an urgent unhook before the guy goes in entity summon. Now with this rework you get exhausted for no reson. Before was better and unique,it activate only in chase
The situations where you need the extra speed despite technically not being in a chase are more common then the situations where you need to fast vault but don't want the speed boost.
Both distractions AND urgent unhooks benefit from the haste btw.
The distraction gives you some early distance for once the Killer gets to the area. Potentially meaning you can distract him AND avoid the chase.
The urgent unhook means that extra speed can sometimes mean the difference between making it and being just a little bit too slow.
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Side grade at best. Remember that the tier 3 is the one that matters. BBQ, Ruin ect are just as strong as before, it just takes less grinding to get there.
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@tt_ivi_99 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/373747#Comment_373747
My point is:
Why the killer gets punished if he is not tunneling, he is playing how the devs wanted killers to play (hurt people and make them waste time instead of nerfing gen speed), and he is getting people down?
Why do survivors get rewarded after they get hit 3 times? That's 3 times they ######### up and they get rewarded for it...
Why do killers always get nothing from playing good and instead they have to rely on luck (totems, maps, survivors messing up) and cant have a match in which the result is determinated by their skill? (Something Thanatophobia was gonna make)
I'm just pointing out that if the survivor got hit 3 times without being downed then that says something about how those chases went. Specifically that on 2 separate occasions in a row the Killer found the survivor and then the survivor got away, if he didn't then he would have been downed deactivating the perk. If it doesn't work that way (ie: The perk stays active anyways) then yes that is bad. But if it resets on a down then the counterplay is literally what the Killers are already doing anyways.
Plus it isn't abusable because things like traps and hatchets don't count, and insta-downs bypass it.
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I mean if it just plays the sound when entering phase walk then can't you just start the phase walk and then cancel it before it finishes?
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@tt_ivi_99 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/373706#Comment_373706
It punishes the killer if he tries to go after different people in the middle of a chase, something it's needed to apply preassure and not get gen rushed.
Yes? Seems to me like as good a purpose as any for a perk to fulfill.
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@Warlock_2020 said:
Is it me, or are these games faster? Feels like the gens are faster. I got 8 hooks and little to no chase because they kept hitting my traps. 3k and let the last get hatch, zero pip and only 16k bp? WTH is going on? 1 died on second hook, but that never made a huge difference before.
Maybe stop giving people free wins?
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You know. If the Killer is slugging you to stop DS then you can take a different perk and have DS STILL help you despite you not having it. So that means it's a good perk, so good that it lets you equip 5 perks.
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@The_Crusader said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/373706#Comment_373706
C is the most likely scenario by far, that's generally how the games go.
Absolutely. But note that there is a corresponding scenario where the Killer stops it which is ALSO common
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I don't think it means what you think it does. Basically it says it is disabled when you get downed. Lets go on this series of events if this works like I think it does:
A: You get hit twice and are now downed. You get hooked and then unhooked but are immediately downed again. You have now been hit 3 times so the perk activates. However you were just downed so it deactivates. The perk is now not active
B: You get hit once and then heal back up. You then get hit twice and are now downed. The perk refreshes like in case A.
C: You get hit twice and are now downed. You are hooked and then unhooked, your unhooker heals your back to full. The killer comes back and hits you. The perk is now active and will absorb the next attack.
D: You get hit and then heal back to full on 2 separate occasions without getting downed. The Killer injures you again and now the perk activates and will absorb the next attack.
In cases C and D if you were to then heal back to full then your aura would be revealed while the perk remains active. Note how in both cases you NEED to successfully escape the Killer and put work in to get it meaningfully active. Even using an instant heal doesn't cut it.
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One thing people tend to forget is that Legion isn't just broken. He's also underpowered. These changes are fine so keep them, but we aren't done here
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@artist said:
if this were the case, gates should be guaranteed to spawn at opposite sides of the map, as I can see this being abused by a high mobility killer just to hold the game hostage
That wouldn't be holding the game hostage
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@Acromio said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/367168#Comment_367168
Pallet looping is definitely an exploit, as it shares several features with other exploits.
The survivors' collision is smaller than the killers', so survivors can turn around corners faster and make sharper turns. This causes the killers' faster movement speed to become less relevant, and it only gets worse when you take into account that survivors (the most experienced ones at least) literally hug walls and debris in general, and the killer, because of their 1st person POV, can't do the same.
Survivors are not passively just using pallet looping because it is there, they caused it to exist in the first place* and they have not practised any playstyle that doesn't crutch with pallet loops in two years.
*at one point, in the early days of Dead by daylight, survivors started to use pallets to farm and grief the killer rather than escape chases. Killers complained, got told to "just adapt", and we did. We started playing the hokey-cokey at pallets, when survivors were about to drop them. Long story short, the survivor dropped the pallet, missed the stun, and the chase continued. The situation worsened when a bug that caused stuns to award max boldness points was introduced. Some survivors would even disconnect after missing a stun, they were so desperate for the points, lol. Anyway, at that point killers started lunging mid cokey to get hits in and cut the BS short. Survivors went ballistic and drowned the forums in over nine thousand threads about "unfair" hits through pallet drops. So, patch 1.1.1 dropped and brought several buffs to pallets with it, the most noticeable one being the so-called "pallet vacuum". But there were also a set of unlisted changes that included changes to both the range and time-window for a pallet stun, and also a reduction in the survivors' collision box.
Ok so I'm not saying that looping is good for the game. But the in game tutorial literally points out the survivors being smaller and more nimble as their tools in a chase. As in the game itself specifically says that yes you should use your smaller hit box to your advantage.
Is that a GOOD thing? Debatable. But it is a thing that exists and the devs know about it. Did they know about it at launch? Maybe maybe not. But right now they are (trying) to balance around its existence.
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@GrootDude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/369210#Comment_369210
Fair point. What if the objective was something that would take 40-60 seconds and maybe three were in the matches? What would be your recommendation?
That is still not enough information. Where are these objectives? Are they easy to spot? What must you literally do in order to complete them? Does incomplete progress save and can it be regressed? How much information does the Killer have on this hypothetical object? Can he see its aura? Is he notified about attempted completion? Are there any special mechanics involved that would effect the chase in proximity to the objective? Is the objective consistent between map, killer ect and is it just one option or is it something with more than one completion method? Do items effect it? What about perks like thanataphobia? Is tinkerer effected? Rancor? Is there a set order in which you can complete this objective relative to the existing ones? Can you get additional benefits for over completion? Are there skill checks involved? What kind of map changes would happen to fit in the new objective?
So many important questions that need answers before I can properly predict how individual killers would be effected. Time is far from the only or even most important factor
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/369225#Comment_369225
If forum threads are to be believed, NOED is a major issue. I'd say that alone makes them objectives.
No because that simply isn't what an objective is.
Your objective is the steps required in order to escape. In this sense you have 2 distinct goals and the required steps to furthering them are your objectives. Specifically:
Doing generators
Opening exit gates
Opening the hatch
Letting survivors die
It turns out that ignoring the key you must complete at least 6 objectives to win a game (2 gens + letting 3 survivors die + opening the hatch = 6). While yes you can in theory do more that simply isn't relevant since it is the MINIMUM we are interested in rather than the maximum
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@Carpemortum said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/369219#Comment_369219
Hmm hmm good point. Hmm maybe the DOCTOR needs to Git gud. Hmm hmm very intriguing.
Hmm.
Well first he needs to figure out what that means. After all neither "git" nor "gud" are coherent words
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/369139#Comment_369139
Then they should take longer. Doesn't mean a secondary objective doesn't already exist.
Unrelated. Totems are not a secondary objective because they are not an objective at all. Cleaning totems does not bring you any closer to winning (even if it does reduce potential failure points)
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@Carpemortum said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/369186#Comment_369186
No, they gave a pic with the doctor telling you to : Git gud.
Actually he gave a pic with the doctor POINTING as a picture containing the words "Git gud"
What those jumbled letters are supposed to mean is a question that science has yet to answer. Which is of course why the doctor is pointing st them. As a man of science he is very involved in mysteries such as this one. I thank the Killer community for bringing such an important issue to my attention
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What specifically needs to be nerfed/buffed in response to a hypothetical secondary objective depends on what the objective is however. So you cannot just assert that we need to make some specific change (such as a nurse rework) in response to a secondary objective that hasn't been specified yet
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Adding additional objectives and then reworking NOED as part of the "rebalance accordingly" part of the change seems fair to me so long as the secondary objective is made right
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Quick and Quiet for Survivor
Spies from the shadows for Killers
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G O T T A G O F A S T
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And yes you would balance each killer separately. Possibly even individual builds
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@knell said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/368381#Comment_368381
I think you misunderstood me. In my example from the previous post, I meant that Group B Survivors always have 400% movement speed against the killer, and therefore the killer always have a win rate of 0%.
Maybe I should be less metaphoric in my examples. Let's say The Trapper has a 100% win rate against a group of Solo Survivors. Let's also say that The Trapper has a 0% win rate against a group of SWF Survivors. If The Trapper plays an equal amount of times against both groups, he would have have 50% win rate, and as your weighted coin example suggests, you can state that The Trapper is balanced against survivors. But does that mean no further balancing needs to be done?
I can bring up a similar example from the survivors point of view. Let's say SWF Survivors has a 50% Win Rate against The Hillbilly, therefore is balanced from the perspective of the SWF players.
But as in the previous example, SWF Survivors have a 100% Win Rate against The Trapper. So although you can state that SWF Survivors are balanced against The Hillbilly, you wouldn't be able to say that SWF survivors are balanced against killers in general - given the 75% Win Rate.
To fix this, now let's add The Nurse. Let's say that SWF Survivors have a 0% Win Rate against The Nurse. So now when you take the results from The Trapper, The Hillbilly, and The Nurse, SWF players have an overall win rate of 50% - balanced. But would The Trapper players with their 0% win rate against the SWF players be satisfied with that? Would the SWF players with their 0% win rate against The Nurse be satisfied with that?
Now let's go back to the Solo players, who have a 0% Win Rate against The Trapper. If the movement speed is the only variable, then they would also have a 0% Win Rate against The Hillbilly and The Nurse, which in itself would still bring about a question of balance.
So should we be balancing the general Survivors vs Killers, where specific types of survivors and killers don't matter?
Or should we be balancing specific types of survivors and killers individually, ignoring the overall win rate for general survivors and killers (and if that's the case, can we even do that if there is only one variable and whenever this variable makes Solo Survivor stronger, it also automatically makes the SWF even stronger as well.)
Ah I see. In the example of SWF vs Solos the Trapper would be balanced assuming that 50% is your ideal and your other killers had a similar WR. However SWF and Solos are elements too. So they would each be unbalanced.
Hypothetically you can have a similar unbalance work. Basically you need to have any given element (killer) work against the average of all opposing elements (solos + SWF) and those opposing elements are balanced under the same reasoning. So you can have the trapper be effective against a specific survivor who is effective against a specific non-trapper killer who is effective against a different kind of survivor who is effective against the trapper. A loop like this is not only viable but also common for competitive games such as Melee and CSGO as well as many strategy games.
Of course as you rightly pointed out this isn't enough. If the difference is too extreme then it stops being skill. This is because balance does not guarantee fun and you need to look at other factors. So in the case you mentioned the issue would be reflected in how interactive the matchups are. It would be too narrow a range showing that there is a dominant strategy that can't be countered by the other side once the game has started.
And what you said about solos vs SWF is completely true as well. My proof works on killers and would probably work on perks to an extent but not on SWF since there isn't a way to mathematically distinguish between SWF and Solos. It's still possible to balance it but it's not as simple as what I did in this thread.
Also in practice you wouldn't actually limit yourself to a single variable. Doing so just makes it clear that there is some ideal point you could reach for any power that is effected by MS
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@tt_ivi_99 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/368131#Comment_368131
You seem to forget that this is a videogame. Your point is valid if we talk about competitions but we are talking about a videogame, and it's crucial to have fun while playing. If you dont have fun you just quit playing.
Would you play a killer that is perfectly balanced but is boring to play as? I wouldnt honestly, and Im sure a lot of people wouldnt want to either.
This is true. In fact that is ultimately the point of the thread.
Specifically that balance doesn't matter since it can always be artificially established after the fact and thus is the one issue you can outright ignore when designing a Killer power ect.
This isn't me saying that all Killers are fine or even that any killer can be fine. I wouldn't want to play as an instant win killer and neither would you. The point is that you can't dismiss an idea for balance reasons and that you should always prioritize non-balance issues over balance issues when you have to.
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@knell said:
If every killer won every game 100% of the time then despite being completely consistent it would still be OP and a bit past the "get gud" argument. Same for a 0% winrate in reverse. Again there would be a hypothetical midpoint where this isn't a problem anymore and we call that point "balanced".
I don't know; keeping the equation to just one variable (movement speed in this case) seems like oversimplification to me.
Let's say for instance, there is a certain type of survivors (Group A) that a killer can win 100% of the time. But there is also another type of survivors (Group B) that this killer plays against with a win rate of 0% because they magically have a movement speed of 400%. If you play both types of groups equal amount of time, then by your definition, you would argue that the killer is balanced since it hits the arbitrary ideal 50% mark. But if you are strictly viewing from Group B's perspective, the killer is definitely not balanced. Nor is it from Group A's perspective, but from the other end of the spectrum.
Now let's say there is a killer that can get a 50% win rate against Group B, as well as 100% win-rate against Group A. From the perspective of Group B, the killer is balanced, but from Group A's view, the killer is not balanced (as in the previous example). From killer's perspective, it's a 75% win rate, so it also would not be viewed as balanced.
But is it the killer that's not balanced, or is it the survivors (Group A and B)?
What you have just described is the mathematical equivalent of a coin toss. Which I already established IS in fact balanced.
I wouldn't even consider such an example to be a problematic implication since the explanation would be that Group A is better than Group B at the game. If Group A is the norm then the Killers should be able to handle them and if Group A is not the norm then it might be ok if they can't.
Of course ideally both killer's and survivor's get better with skill at an equal rate. However that's beyond the scope of this thread.
Imagine a bucket full of coins for coin tosses. It just so happens that exactly half of the coins are weighted to always land on heads. But the other half are weighted to always land on tails.
Balance just asks the question of "how often did a coin picked from the bucket land on heads?". The answer is 50% so the bucket is balanced even if the coins are not.
That being said if you meant that the Killer only has 400% MS against Group B then that is still equivalent to something that actually happens. Here let me define a bunch of relevant terms:
Balance - An objects global winrate. This should be equal for all comparable objects ideally
Swing - The variation of an objects winrate given randomness throughout a single game. This should be as low as possible but usually not actually 0, having a killer get 400% MS against only half of the groups would be an example of this
Skill gap - The difference in winrate between the best and worst players (in terms of winrate) using an object. This should be fairly high but not as high as you might think because of how matchmaking works
Interactiveness - How much more likely is a random player to beat the worst opponents compared to the best opponents. Too high and winning is out of your hands. Too low and the game is eventually functionally singleplayer.
Freddy has a problem with balance
Pig has a problem with swing
Legion has a problem with Interactiveness and Skill gap
My hypothetical win button killer has a problem with Swing, Skill gap AND Interactiveness
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@Countfunkular said:
All right when it comes down to killers numbers don't really matter because most of them are constants. Let me explain what I mean and try to add something to the conversation then just a bunch of goddamn children crying in the comment section.
Here's the thing. When I say constant I mean movement speed in every base thing a killer can do. If you modify those numbers it won't really make much of a difference because of one thing.
The ability
Now I'm not trying to sound snobbish in any possible way. Please understand that now. When I say the ability of the killer I literally just mean their power. Certain Killers can be fast as Usain Bolt but if their power is absolute garbage then they won't really get as far as people think they would. If you're insanely fast then what good would it do you if survivors can learn to adjust to that speed and pallet Loop you like any other killer...
Look at the legion. I know a lot of people love whining about this killer but when it comes down to speed if you know how to deal with it then the Killer is just as useless has Freddy.
When it comes down to a power. It has to be simple and to the point to bring survivors down quickly or complex to waste as much as their time as possible to help you get some hooks.
When it comes down to the number on a Killers ability or power we usually have add-ons to fix that particular problem unless it's a serious glaring issue.
I'll leave you with an example Trapper and the hag got a serious power buff to make setting traps a lot easier and even buffed the add-ons for the power as well... Trapper and hag I played a lot more frequently now
Are you suggesting you can loop a 200% movement speed killer like you can a 115% killer?
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Should probably mention that what I just said is a problem for the legion. Since skill curve is a non-balance issue that means it CAN be a fundamental problem with the Killer
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@Bravo0413 said:
I've said it once and I'll say it again-----> OP imo means "anyone can use said item/character and have great success regardless the experience of the player" ..... so in this case the only character that even comes close to being "OP" is Legion .... because a week 1 noob can hop on them and play them to pretty much max potential and abuse the chase mechanic sooo...
Every other killer is not OP and requires some learning curve
Except that isn't the widely excepted definition. Overpowered usually means "Too powerful" predictably enough. Which has nothing to do with skill curve and in the context of balance (which ALSO doesn't concern itself with skill curve) only cares about the sum of all games with no greater context required.
This fact is why we can even HAVE killers like nurse. Since while they are potentially insane they also require more skill to use at their max level compared to other killers. Thus the nurses overall winrate remains balanced. For other killers like legion the winrate is less effected by rank. This is STILL balance (assuming the numbers are correct)
Remember. A coin toss is balanced when it lands on heads 50% of the time. No skill is involved in a coin toss and it is extremely unfair and unfun. It is still balanced
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@RepliCant said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/368081#Comment_368081
Not saying what you're saying is false, but it does prove that you lack adaption at this game.
Just because she negates your defenses does not mean there isn't counterplay with The Nurse. I respect your opinion, but I do see the failure to adapt to how a Killer is played and how to play against them. I'll leave it as that.
Good Survivors can destroy anyone, SWF or solo, and a good Killer can destroy a set of survivors, SWF or solo.
In the current state of DbD, excluding a few... mistakes (legion haha funny jok) I find it a evermost battle of mindgames between the killer and I, and how that does down is dependent on the Killer and the power and playstyle of such; and how well I can play against that and out-mindgame them.
Absolutely. The whole idea behind skill is that while the overall winrates between killer's perks ect needs to be consistent it shouldn't be evenly distributed among players. Or in other words worse players should win less than better players. And thus your winrate compared to the global winrate should often not match up for better or worse.
That doesn't mean a killer can't be unbalanced. In the case of nurse the issue isn't that she can beat survivor's but rather that she does so more often than freddy, at which point the choice of nerfing the nurse, buffing freddy or both is arbitrary. And of course the nurse can also be unbalanced by winning more than is statistically expected with ideal balance.
If every killer won every game 100% of the time then despite being completely consistent it would still be OP and a bit past the "get gud" argument. Same for a 0% winrate in reverse. Again there would be a hypothetical midpoint where this isn't a problem anymore and we call that point "balanced". So if the nurse is above that point then she is overpowered. If she or any other killer like freddy is below that point then they are underpowered.
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And if it doesn't then what happens if you have Haunted Grounds and NOED with the last gen done and then Haunted Grounds gets cleansed thus turning the other one into a dull? Does that one then turn into NOED?
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@NMCKE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/367722#Comment_367722
This is NOT bannable, look at @TAG's statement for clarification.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/367762#Comment_367762
I saw tags statement and it lead me to answer the question with a YES
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@tt_ivi_99 said:
No, just no.
You cant just take a stat and make it 0% and have another stat at 100%, It would break the game.
115% movement speed is almost universal killer speed because all killers can kill you without using their power (except Freddy unless you catch people inside lockers but that's never gonna happen).
If you buff their movement speed they'll M1 you without using their power which takes away the fun aspect of playing killer.
If you nerf their MS they'll abuse their power which should be super powerful to catch up on a chase, this would lead to more Nurse tier characters, something nobody wants.
A killer is balanced when he must use both M1 and power to down you.
No No No. A killer is balanced when his winrate fits with an arbitrary ideal. In most games that's 50% for any given role.
You are falsely conflating balance with fun. As while balance is a strong indicator of fun it is NOT a guarantee of it.
Thus when talking about balance it is perfectly valid to change whatever numbers you feel like to reach the desired end. And if you actually did that then you would likely not end up with that ridiculous of a number. For example while yes 200% MS freddy is insane a 120% MS freddy is potentially interesting.
But yes I can absolutely have 1 stat be 0% and another stat be 100%. In fact for survivor's their run speed is 100% and their DPS is 0%. In fact any stat that is not applicable is 0% so there are an infinite amount of those. In any case the point I'm making is that pointing out balance flaws is NEVER sufficient grounds for a rework or removal. But instead you have to demonstrate that either fixing it will always create a non-balance problem or that there already IS a non-balance problem.
And your claim afterwards is also false since buffing or nerfing someone's MS does not have to imply anything about their power, instead it just happens to have a tendency to do so because reducing MS is a great way to counterbalance movement based killer powers when doing the numbers game I've been talking about.
Do not forget that balance is a numbers game and thus should always only be considered AFTER establishing that something doesn't have problems in area's besides balance
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"Plus the tactic as killer of camping does not work most the times survivors have the common sense to do gens instead of give in to the camper."
This is the only line that matters. If a strategy works then you should do it end of story. It is on your opponents to make sure that any annoying or cheesy strategy's you come up with don't work and it is on the devs to make sure that none of these strategy's are unbeatable even with optimal counterplay
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@NurseMainBTW said:
What's with this trend of discussing everything viable survivors have? You know most of the killer mains wants survivors' perks to be at the level of "Slippery Meat" anyways.
And no, Adrenaline rewards people for doing their job.
Personally I'd want survivor perks to be at the level of unbreakable. Useful but situational. For Killers I'd say Whispers is a good baseline. Again useful but it's not going to carry the game for you or anything.
Yes Whispers is LESS situational than unbreakable. However the survivors also have 4 times as many perks so it evens out
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@fluffybunny said:
Adrenaline is like NOED.
Adrenaline gives you a speed boost. NOED gives you a speed boost. Adrenaline gives you a health state back. NOED takes two healths instead of one. NOED doesn't come into play if the totems are done or if end game doesn't come. Adrenaline don't come into play if you're fully healed and not in a chase or just don't get to end game. Both can save you end game.
If one gets reworked, the other should get looked at too imo. I don't really think either is as bad as DS was.
False equivocation. While yes they both have comparable effects they are still independent perks. So either of them can individually be OP without the other being OP. Thus reworking/nerfing one does not imply that the other needs a rework/nerf too
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Apparently NOED is OP despite this
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@Peasant said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/368005#Comment_368005
@NuclearBurrito Rin's father would have been a cooler design. I say we dig him up and have him finish what he started!
It's time to exorcise this Spirit!
NOOOOOOOOOOooooooo..........
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@GrootDude said:
@NuclearBurrito THE TRUTH SHALL BE REVEALED AND WHEN IT IS ALL WILL KNOW THAT WE HATE SPIRIT!! [Insert survivor T-bagging here]
*phases behind the tbagging survivor and downs them*
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@Peasant said:
I responded to your survey. I honestly hate everything about Spirit. Legions can be annoying, but at least you can freaking see them!
She's unfun for me to play as or against.
NO ONE HATES SPIRIT ON MY WATCH!!!!
YOU'RE OPINION IS WRONG AND YOU SHOULD FEEL BAD FOR HAVING IT!
[INSERT ANGRY LOGICAL FALLACY'S HERE]
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@DemonDaddy said:
I find that keeping chases short on either side feels much more rewarding. Treading over the same loop path is boring as killer and making the killer blindly search right after being spotted is far more satisfying then pallet after pallet.
Here is an analysis on chases that I made right before this post was made (or at least before I saw this post anyways)