NuclearBurrito
NuclearBurrito
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- NuclearBurrito
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What you described is not gen rush. And even if you did gen rush I wouldn't complain that you should do something else.
Gen rush is strong, not mean. You should do what you feel is going to make you win.
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Ok the more I think about it the more I want the second chance perks to use the exhaustion mechanic.
Reason being is that those perks while annoying on their own start to break the game when combined
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@Plu said:
I know, @NuclearBurrito , but it would make it less impactful in a match so we can think of a better rework for it in the meantime.
Or like @TheRealDweard said, turning it into an exhaustion perk could fix some of it issues it has.
@plu I suppose. But I feel like a slight change in conditions is a better solution then one we already know won't end well.
@TheRealDweard That COULD work but I'd need to see details.
Maybe Exhaustion is the solution to second chance perks in general? DS requires you to be unexhausted, BT exhausts the player unhooked (like adrenaline does) ect?
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@Well_Placed_HexTotem said:
Just remove it from the game and quit adding stupid ass perks that make an already lopsided game design even more toxic.
They drastically nerfed Fred right after release, no reason they can’t here.
@Well_Placed_HexTotem If you are trying to get a suggested added into the game then you need to be suggesting something that actually has a chance at getting added. I don't like this perk any more than you do. However screaming at the devs to remove it is a great way to get ignored. They already made the perk and aren't going to scrap that code lightly, the Freddy rework is taking so long because reworks in general take a long time. Thus you want to make a change suggested as small and easy to implement as possible
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@Plu said:
Just make it so multiple people can't use it in the same match.
We tried that with DS already. If it didn't work here then why do the same thing again?
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This would also make sure that the downside actually matters. The Killer would know for a fact that the survivor has MoM active and the survivor can't avoid healing to avoid the downside if they want the effect.
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Kinda? If they are healthy then an instadown will down them. If they are injured it won't
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Ok how do I make big text?
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Btw. This shows why Legion is so broken and why Freddy is so bad.
The chaser weakness is lack of tracking. The legion is no exception as he can't see scratch marks in frenzy. At the same time however he reveals locations with Frenzy negating the weakness and then some.
That isn't the only reason. However it is a big part.
For Freddy he is a combination if the type that finds survivors and has no modifiers to chacing and the one that can't be seen by survivors but can't immediately initiate a chase. That's all of the downsides in a chase, and this is in a meta where chasing is the most important part.
Also it just connected that Spirit literally turns invisible and is thus part stealth
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Actually people DC against killers without anything against loops such as Plague too. So it's really just "If I see a killer I DC"
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Git gud is such a useless phrase. If you want to make the point that they should be exploiting counterplay options to some annoying mechanic then they should be working out strategies to show that it can be done. Not just asserting that you can
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As a spirit main I haven't had any problems what so ever with this perk...
...because I stopped playing the second the update dropped and will wait for the game to be fixed before I start playing again
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Why did we get rid of the victory cubes again?
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@DwightsLifeMatters said:
By your definition myers has parts of dps aswell
Correct. He does
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@Poweas said:
Spirit is stealth too, her whoosh can be heard within 16m, which lets her get closer to you.
You completely forgot Pressure/Map control killers where Nurse and Spirit fit in, and in which Hag and Billy are the queen and king of respectively.
Also you forgot the 'game slowing killers' where Freddy, Plague and Doctor are good in and Legion is god tier in.
Also Hag is a very good tracker, because her traps let her locate survivors and see their directions they take even if she doesn't teleport, and she's an excellent DPS, being the only killer to be able to potentially injure 3 survivors and down 1 when they are all the way across the map. The only killer to do that.
Not saying Hag is the best killer, but she's the most all rounded and versatile killer, and can be played in a variety of different styles. All killers should be like that.
I'm not forgetting that those mechanics exist, in fact Map control is basically just the chaser category I defined which I specifically acknowledged that Hag is good at (in addition to her more trap based gameplay) and already include Nurse, Spirit, Billy. Although I see map pressure as more of an ultimate end which doesn't belong to a specific type. You can get pressure by always heading towards the survivors as much as you can get pressure by flying across the map, or being a wildcard where you need to always be careful cuz you don't know where the killer is, or by simply leaving traps that damage survivors cross map.
Slowing the game killer's don't really have a sufficiently consistent arctype (note how the arctypes have similar styles of execution with the exception of the clown. This comparison doesn't work for a "Stalling" arctype) to really fit in here. But yes it is a common mechanic. Which btw Plague does not qualify for, her sickness doesn't effect gen progress at all and the sickness makes healing even FASTER instead of slower. If I were to make an arctype for this anyway then It would include: Freddy, Doc, Legion, Pig. Like yeah I guess Legion slows the game down, but his power is for chasing and is mobility based.
The hag's tracking ability's are comparable to the trappers and for the exact same reason (although Hag's traps are faster to set up and harder to see).
I think you misunderstand what I mean by DPS. When I say that I'm not talking about an average (how much you would practically expect) hits. But rather potential hits. Leatherface is loopable and probably won't down too many people. However if there is a group of people he can instadown all of them almost immediately. Huntress is a similar but less extreme deal. Her hatchets are faster than melee letting her do the Hatchet -> Melee combo, same deal with Plague, especially with corrupt. The hag doesn't have instadowns or alternative mid-chase damage methods faster than M1. So even though she gets in hitting range quickly (which is powerful, I'm not criticizing her) once she does you go down as fast as you would against anyone else.
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"If we remove his strengths then he won't cause problem. Genius"
If you are going to remove the parts that make him at all decent then you better have some serious buffs to compensate for it
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Ruin wasn't buffed
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@[Deleted User] said:
The Hag and The Legion have some stealthy elements as well due to their terror radius and just their size alone.
I mean calling any killer with a less than 32 meter terror radius a stealth Killer is much too broad. I wouldn't call them stealth killers for the same reason trapper isn't DPS just because his power injures
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@Delfador said:
@NuclearBurrito Spirit is better than hillbilly.
It is just that the majority of survivors are average and you can destroy them by playing hillbilly. When you face good survivors, hillbilly is quite weak, any billy main can easily confirm this.
Spirit has low map pressure with no insta down but chases are no joke. She can still handle good survivors unlike billy.
I don't take addons into consideration, insta saw billy is no joke.
Due to their design, killers like pig or doc can not be as good as these 2 killers are. You can give similar abilities to killers like leatherface and wraith but that's it.
Well they could. But it would require chases to as a rule be shorter but also more likely to end in a survivor escaping.
I feel like tweaks to bloodlust and scratch marks could accomplish this. For example if survivors eventually stopped leaving scratch mark's at higher bloodlust tiers but then bloodlust was also gained faster then looping might be impractical but also unnecessary due to being able to simply block LoS and go somewhere unpredictable to lose the Killer. This would also make being injured a far bigger threat since tracking would be far more important.
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@artist said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/402337#Comment_402337
realistically, every killer will never be billy tier, at least not for a very long time. most of the things you mentioned would change the game altogether, and would need a lot of thought process/time/variables factored in. im definitely with you on instaheals though.
@artist what about spirit tier?
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Note: This is not a critique of anything. Categorys are useful and these similarities exist for a reason.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/401767#Comment_401767
It was buffed recently.
So? This is a thread suggesting a nerf
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Just wanted to point out. Unlike old DS which simply removes some punishment for failure. Mettle of man actively rewards failure. This 8s because having MoM active let's to be in a state that is better than having not needed it in the first place. Or in otherwords if I have MoM then it is preferable to be hit than to not be hit since I can get a 3rd health state by being hit.
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So it would go from a variant on old DS to a variant on new DS basically
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Why would the Killer mains be complaining about a nerf to a survivor perk?
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@Peanits pretty sure you are a mod. Can you fix my mistake or tell me how to do it myself please?
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@Theluckyboi oh... know a way to move it then?
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I'd like to think it's one of my better ones
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This is an unfair question. In order to get a fair answer you need to compare the times you've been hit with DS compared to the number of survivors that ran DS in your games. If you count survivor's that didn't run DS then the information you get is useless
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Bump. I want feedback plz
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Can we just buff useless perks and nerf OP perks until everything it balanced? Both sides have them to varying degrees and variety is good
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Its human nature to do so
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@KillermainBTWm8 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/393719#Comment_393719
@NuclearBurrito Here is how I see DBD and how the killer "wins" first off if you think a 4k is the only way you win that is obviously wrong simply because the real winner is the one with the most BP so :/ and second off a 2k in my perspective would be considered a "tie" between survivors and killers 2 escaped 2 died a 3k would be a win because you killed the majority of survivors and you can still double pip ect with 3ks so thats just how I see things.
BP is not your win condition and almost no one sees it as one. It is gained for meaningless actions, isn't established as being related to winning and doesn't function well as one regardless.
Piping is a similar deal. Nowhere does the game say that pipping is how you win. Much like with BP pips exist for the Grind rather than the second to second gameplay. The difference being that pips are often viewed as a wincon anyways and the grind is for rank instead of for the bloodweb.
If you actually check the tutorial there is a page defining the win condition for each side. Survivors win if they escape. Killers win by sacrificing survivors.
I'll grant you that it doesn't specify a Number, however a 2k would still not be a tie.
In general Ties in games only occur if:
A: The game hits a stalemate where no one can win or lose (such as chess with just the 2 Kings). If the game has ended by everyone escaping or dying then this hasn't occurred.
B: Your wincon and your losecon are achieved at the same time. Not applicable for Killer who doesn't have a losecon, the survivors losecon is death.
C: Your wincondition is achieved at the same time as your opponents win condition (Such as 2 players killing each other in a 1v1 deathmatch). This cannot happen since a dead survivor by definition cannot escape and vice versa.
D: All players lose condition was achieved (a wipeout in mafia). Again, the Killer only has a wincon and no losecon
Thus a tie is logistically impossible
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@Hoodied said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/401112#Comment_401112
Yes, but its not as repetitive, the mending timer is faster, and with the requirement for frenzy, it is more rewarding than before @NuclearBurrito
That's fine. I care more about injuring people and having him be good against groups.
Seems like you did a good job. Nicely done!
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@Hoodied said:
@NuclearBurrito I will change it to that, I chose the instadown so the survivor would not get cocky by windows or pallets
Highly conditional instadown is fine. One thing, can you still Frenzy into a group and use lunges to DW everyone quickly like you can now?
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So it basically gives him lithe and an instadown requiring that you hit survivors to charge up. I feel like the lunge should apply deep wounds the first time, considering that otherwise lunging is negative utility.
Otherwise I could see this working
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Yes this is specifically for Plague due to both having a large TR, Map pressure, MS AND fast downs. As well as a power that can be used on downed survivor's.
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The 3 hits to charge it require normal attacks like what NOED effects. Once active anything that would down you from injured will work, basic attack or not.
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If I could travel into the past I would publish the method used to do so into a science journal and claim my nobel prize for discovering time travel and then get rich.
Dead by daylight is not going to be what is on my mind if I have a freaking time machine
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I still think that what the OP is suggesting would make a better perk rather than an Ebony Mori change or a base ability
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@Weederick said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/400603#Comment_400603
I agree for the most part, but it doesnt make looping worse than tunneling. I dont even have problems with palletlooping, i originally meant infinitelooping. When survivors eg have sprintburst and run straight to the infinite and keep looping that window until it blocks and repeat it every time. I only mean that type of looping and compare it to tunneling, since it is also the most efficient way to play.
And infinite looping is something a lot more killermains could agree on, that it is bullshit.
Ye. The point is that no matter how BS it is you should always use the most effective strategy you can and expect others to do the same. In this case infinite looping is the most effective strategy and thus you should always do it as much as possible. The fact that the strategy is BS is a problem but not one that should make you expect the survivor's to do anything else.
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@Weederick said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/400390#Comment_400390
@NoShinyPonyThats just your pov and it doesnt justify using tunneling, but not using infinites. I dont find the game heavily favoring survivors, so i wouldnt agree on that anyways. A killer can killrush and close games equally fast if he takes the opportunities.
That would go under "imaginary rulebooks" to tunnel, but to not infinite.
If killers are free to do what they want, then survivors also are. Still i bet, most killers would freak when survivors only hug infinites.
@WeederickYou should tunnel and you should loop/genrush since they are both optimal strategy's.
However the Survivor's optimal strategy is stronger than the Killer's optimal strategy (not counting Nurse anyway).
This means that looping is worse for the game than tunneling. Both are considered unfun to the other side. HOWEVER, they should still be used anyways so long as they keep working.
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JuSt ClEaNsE tOtEmS
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I think something like this could be a perk rather than a base mechanic. It counters endgame DS, flip flop and is faster in general.
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Yeah 4k is the Killer's wincon.
Saying unless Killer wants that 4k is like saying unless the Survivor wants to escape. They obviously do unless they are doing some weird challenge or something.
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If you don't want people to play legion then the best way is to discourage it. DCing doesn't discourage crap as the Killer benefit's from that. Instead CRUSH HIM. SHOW HIM WHY HE'S CONSIDERED BOTTOM TIER AND DEPIP HIM INTO OBLIVION. I mean seriously, why should I care if you are to salty to play the game? More points for me! If I see that a Killer I'm playing is always ending in a 2-0k however then I'm going to switch Killers hoping for better results. If you DC I'm going to get a 4k and end the game happy, this is counterproductive to the goal of discouraging unfun play.
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@ClogWench said:
"possible" is a strong word for this scenario
Strong words for a strong man ;)
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@Milo said:
Oh btw if you're affected by BT you cannot endure another hit (by MoM)
Just happenned to me in game.
Wait really? Rip, that means double MoM isn't possible
BT -> DS -> MoM still is but that's not as fun
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@twistedmonkey said:
You know what else is possible?
Leatherface finding all survivors on one gen, they all for some reason run in the same direction and get downed with the chainsaw, hooked and its game over.
I cant see how the devs didnt see how OP that scenario is, surely they need to do something about it that and nerf his chainsaw.
You see how just because something can happen doesnt mean its actually a problem, yes it is possible but it takes a perfect amount of circumstances for it to line up.
First they tunnelled off the hook while the gens were not done (thats what DS and BT changes were designed to help with), second they have to be on the third hit, third the killer doesnt know how to bait DH (if you are good you wont fall for it) and lastly you have to have all these line up before the last gen pops for adrenaline.
Instaheal not included in teh above as there is no circumstance its not a great crutch.
Using BT you will almost always be on the 3rd hit
Healthy 1
Injured 2
Downed
Hooked
BT hit 3
Also. This thread isn't an "OMG EVERYTHING IS BROKEN", if it was I would be stating suggestions and having comparisons to gen times ect. Rather it is: "Ha ha look at how far we can take this gimmick build if we try hard enough"
Unfortunately Killer builds just don't stack to the same effect even when at there strongest.
Though if you must bring practicality's into it then in a real game I would expect you to be able to consistently pull off the BT -> MoM -> DS -> Insta portion and then maybe get the DH off anyway if your pro. The Adrenaline is just me pushing it to it's limit and the 2nd MoM requires the Adrenaline so same deal.
MoM and DS work well together and BT is a meta perk. Most game would have BT -> MoM -> DS happening once or twice and just the BT -> MOM/DS or DS -> MoM happening far more often. The numbers for that is between 17 and 6 seconds of guaranteed stun depending on the specifics.
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Bye! I'd recommend the game Deceit if you are looking for something else.
Similar setup (2 infected vs 4 innocents, innocents are trying to escape alive and win individually, 2 infected are trying to kill the 4 innocents first and win together) but the infected look like innocents and the innocents have guns to fight back. It totally nails the horror feeling and is pretty intense.
Just picture this. It's dark and you can hardly see anything. You hear someone screaming about an infected attacking him and before he can say who he was with he goes silent. Then your buddy says to follow and runs off, you go there and he trails behind slightly after establishing the direction. Suddenly you hear a roar and see who you thought was a friend turning into a monster. You start shooting but it screams throwing off your aim before running in to bite your face off. The 2 remaining innocents power the doors to the next area, but at this point it's too late and the infected open fire in human form to finish off the survivors.