NuclearBurrito
NuclearBurrito
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@twistedmonkey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/347555#Comment_347555
Those numbers are for self care not healing others.
Healing another is 16 seconds and while you do it you get to 50% health so if they heal you it then takes 8 seconds so 24s in total.
If you are talking about time they are not on gens also and they both healed via self care then yes it's in theory its 16 seconds time saved only.
No I'm talking about healing others. The effective time lost is twice as much as the actual time lost since it means there are 2 survivors that can't be doing other things rather than 1.
Think of it this way. Every actual second that passes survivors have the potential to have 4 seconds of progress. If a survivor dies or is slugged/on the hook that number goes down by 1 of course. Every second a survivor spends healing another survivor is a second that both of them aren't doing anything else, so a second in real time in that case is 2 seconds of survivor time.
This is why self care is mathematically balanced. If 2 people self care to heal it will take exactly as much time as if they worked together to heal each other, thus self care does not speed up healing at all nor does it slow it down. You can of course bring up a bunch of other reasons for why self care is insanely good, but actual time saved isn't one of them.
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@Warlock_2020 said:
I hope her power is not as strong as you think. She seems pretty interesting, but we don't need a nurse level killer. Honest killers can admit that 3-4k is already the norm. I don't want the lobbies of red ranks to spread beyond due to survivor fatigue.
That said, 2 perks greatly concern me.
1. Corrupt Intervention: This could quickly become the meta as it will be seen as a counter to supposed gen rush. It directly counters the reason of one of shroud offerings, and likely will force games into hide and seek for a bit. This will be great for Trapper, Hag, and others while being extremely OP on Nurse, Billy, Spirit and Legion who can all cover distance fast and lock down interior gens. Do they ever play devil's on how these perks interact with other killers and perks?
Solidarity: Nerf healing, then give healing a seriously powerful perk? This will quickly be meta and is way better than self care. Will this interact with heal-boosting perks like We'll Make It and Botany Knowledge? Two injured survivors healed in less than 10 seconds. This will be a truly legit reason to camp the hook as it is the only counter to slow down that perk. Again, consequences of one perk don't seem to be taken into consideration.
Counter Ideas:
1. Corrupt Intervention: The entity causes one generator per tier to automaticallt begin degenerating when no survivor is working on it. If an effected generator is then kicked, the rate of degeneration is doubled. Only one generated is effected at a time per tier level of the perk. This makes the perk effective all game, and extends the game. Furthermore, the survivors may not know it is active for some time, and when they figure it out, they have to make tough choices of leaving the gen to save or staying. Furthermore, this encourages pushing survivors off the gens instead of camping the hook.
2. Solidarity: This perk purges one status effect per tier from the user each time they heal another survivor to full. This encourages team play as a way to slow down the new killer powers, and does not break healing vs other killers.
I just don't want to see things out of hand. I think these perks could be very damaging and seriously alter gameplay.
Solidarity really seems overrated. If you want to heal yourself and another player then it takes 32 seconds per person that needs to be healed (yes 16 seconds, but since 2 people are doing it that makes it effectively 32 seconds). So healing both of you takes 64 seconds. With this perk it reduces the time to 48 seconds instead saving 16 seconds. Is that good? Yes. Is that broken or OP? Not at all, it has conditions to activate and the numbers aren't big enough to be considered OP.
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I'd say legion is lower mid tier
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Personally I wouldn't put the markings in there and I would give it a range where it can activate. That way it doesn't give survivors the information preemptively and it still keeps survivor's on their toes with perks like Huntresses lullaby and some doctor builds
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@LCGaster in theory you can take as many orbs as you like so long as you get the tokens for it first. No limit to how many of each you can get, the downside is the amount of time it would take to set that up is enough that the survivors would have finished doing the gens long before you've built up enough power to make it OP especially since the first of each orb you get is just making up for lower base stats unless you use addons
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Honestly can we just make this a ToTH rework?
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Wait it stops actions? That's really good actually
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Look. Weather its annoying, toxic, a bug, and exploit whatever. It's also optimal play.
You shouldn't just expect optimal play. But you should plan on it and maybe even rely on it.
If playing optimally causes problems, then that is on the devs.
We all agree that the legion moonwalking to end a chase is an exploit. But I would never get mad at them for doing that either. They should always be doing everything in their power besides outright cheating to win. When that comes up and is BS that isn't the players fault for taking advantage of it but the devs fault for making it possible in the first place.
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I fixed the OP
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@Milo said:
You mean unnerving right?
I do
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@Milo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/346633#Comment_346633
And then there's Billy
And clown, and Myers (does he even count?)
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Maybe even distressing instead of Dying light to make SURE they miss the skill check
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@Milo said:
This build is missing Overcharge
Oh yes my bad. We can have that instead of M&A
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Actually if you heal 4 people using this perk it will only be as fast as healing 3 people.
All 4 survivors are occupied for 16 seconds and then 2 survivors for another 16 seconds for a total of 96 seconds of survivor time lost.
Normally if 2 survivors are injured they take 64 seconds of survivor time to heal and 3 survivors take 96 seconds to heal. This is the least efficient since
With this perk 2 survivors will take 48 seconds and 3 survivors will take 64 seconds. It is a big deal yes but the healing time is NOT cut in half
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@TheRealDweard said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/346817#Comment_346817
This is true. Still think there could be some interesting gameplay though?
Absolutely. It's a cool perk. But it's no DS
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also none of the conditions involve being downed. So it isn't a second chance perk
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Pop goes the wessle vs a gen tapper is just the best
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Definitely not. Too situational
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I mean it's a meh perk outside of slugging builds, so it wouldn't be used THAT often
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Dark devotion is something I feel would be cool in specialized builds but otherwise is just meh.
I would imagine that it might be good on the legion with speed addons.
Smack someone with frenzy, smack the obsession, go after the first target with M1 now that you have no terror radius and can be sneaky about it. The obsession now has to keep running since they hear the terror radius and might think they are still being chased.
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Important question. What exactly does the sickness actually DO to the survivors?
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@FallenOrpheus said:
I didn't get to see her perks. Can somebody tell me what they are?
1: Healing others partially heals yourself
2: No scratchmarks after completing a gen
3: After fast exiting a locker that you have been in for 3 seconds or more you stun the killer if they are right in front of you and become exhausted
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@Poweas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/346606#Comment_346606
@NuclearBurrito would Sloppy be good? I've been trying that recently and it seems solid.
Sure. It doesn't have any particular synergy with Spirit but it's just a good perk in general.
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@Poweas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/346561#Comment_346561
@NuclearBurrito my problem with it is, it's not as good. Got another perk for that slot? Since Stridor was messing up my accuracy.
Whispers is always good too. You could also use Rancor to be able to ignore DS
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Right now
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It started for realz!!!
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@fcc2014 said:
The load screen makes me feel right at home playing the game.
Ah yes. Loading screen simulator
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@Poweas Glad to see that's working out for you.
If I were you I would try to replace striddor with a different perk such as Spies from the shadows.
You can use other perks but SFTS is particularly good on the spirit because it often procs mid chase and can tell you where you need to be mid phasing while aura perks don't work while using her power.
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@HatCreature said:
Awesome perks, I can see myself running all of them, especially the first one ;)
Certainly counters the strategy of saving the new DS for endgame
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@Nobsyde said:
Backwater Swamp - I'm the killer and it's time for an hatch stand off. Generators are not being done at all, I search everywhere but I can't find neither the hatch nor the survivor. I mean: EVERYWHERE.
Out of desperation I basically hug the wall and walk the whole perimeter of the map, and eventually.. I find the hatch! At the time I didn't know the hatch could spawn so much near the corner of the map, so much so that one couldn't even hear the sound of it without going really out of the way.
I go almost to the opposite side of the map on top of a hill, and camp there, pretending to be afk.
Eventually the survivor sees me, I see him but I do nothing, he's still too far away. Once he's 10-15m away from me, I run, and hit him.
Now he gains some distance due to the hit, runs for the hill and reaches its base.
He tea bags,
then, he realizes.
Just wanted to be sure. You baited him into thinking the hatch was on the hill when it was actually on the opposite side of the map right?
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@ClogWench said:
We really don't need a counter to body blocking. Mad Grit is already an extremely powerful counter as is
Again. This thread isn't suggesting anything. It's just pointing out the obvious solution to a minor annoyance. What is there to even argue against?
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btw. The reason a Killer needs to be fun for everyone to play against but only needs to be fun for SOMEONE to play AS is because you can chose who you play as but you can't chose who you play against. Someone's preferred playstyle will influence what killers they will like so it is good to have variety so there will be something for everyone. However counterplaying a killer needs to have a wide appeal as ALL survivors will have to deal with every single killer at some point regardless of playstyle
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In theory it should be. Since any fun killer can be a good killer since power comes down to mathematics, while not any good killer can be a fun killer.
The issue is when you make a killer to be fun and then forget to tweak the numbers so that they are good like what happened with legion.
Or if you only make it fun for a very narrow subset of the playerbase... again like the legion.
Basically any killer should be A: Enjoyable to play against and B: Can be enjoyable to play AS. If it isn't fun for ANYONE to play as or if people won't have fun against them then it is fundamentally bad. So long as it meets those 2 requirements there will always be some sort of change to make them a great killer for the game.
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The power duration add-ons can double as power recharge add-ons if you don't use the entire bar during phase walk.
Wait really? That's cool, never even noticed.
Can you see if you can get the numbers for that?
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@Poweas said:
@MegMain98 are you sure she can be played with brown addons? Because I find myself reliant on her yellow addons to perform mindgames. But I'll try it for you.
@NuclearBurrito I'll try her again without addons. I got a 4 red and 32k BP game as her without addons once. I was sure it's a fluke. I'll try her without addons again and show you the results. I doubt it'll be pretty. But I might be bad as her :P
Good luck! She isn't easy but I've never needed more than the brown addons for recharge and phasing startup. And I didn't really NEED those ones either.
She already moves fast enough to close chases in seconds if you know where they will be, it's just a matter of predicting their movements
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@BACKSTABBER said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/344836#Comment_344836
I paste it again:
DbD was born: have 7 choices for a second chance build to place in 4 slots
In 5 years: have 17 choices for a second chance build to place in 4 slots!!?!!?
Thing is that it wasn't JUST X slots for Y perks.
It's X slots for Y perks at Z power. If you want to increase X without breaking the game then it's Z that you need to change with it and not Y. Or in otherwords what would justify adding perk slots is not MORE perks but WEAKER perks. Otherwise the perks end up overshadowing the minute to minute gameplay.
Any given perk build does not care about the total number of perks that exist since you aren't using those perks. All you care about is if there is the right X perks to make your build work. In general there is usually BARELY enough slots to make any given build work. This means you cannot go jack of all trades and be effective, you have to have a solid idea behind the build.
Decreasing the overall power behind any given perk lets you have more slots while maintaining the need for specialization. But increasing the perk slots and total perks eventually means you can do everything at once with very little drawback
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The boil over and deja vu reworks feel more like nerfs than buffs.
Boil over's effects are pointless and the proposed changes do not help with it (I seriously don't get why we can't make it so that boil over lets you wiggle out faster)
The Deja Vu effect requires you to give away your position to the killer in order to MAYBE get some information on his location. Not worth it at all.
For Haunted grounds I would swap the movement speed and attack recovery and then decrease the pallet requirement by 2 for all ranks.
Otherwise looks good
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Considering we all agree that bodyblocking isn't a problem why does it sound like we are arguing?
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@Mat_Sella said:
People don't realize it's a two way-street. You both want your points, you both want an intended outcome from this, you both are screwed if the other wins over. you can complain about the survivor, and the survivor can complain about the killer, but you both put yourself in a situation in which a hatch stand-off was possible. If the survivors performed better they wouldve just walked out the gate, if the killer performed better they wouldnt have had the chance to reach the hatch. Nobody truly wins except the person with the most patience / inflated sense of ego.
This isn't about the hatch standoff. The situation here is that the gates are open and there is really no benefit for the survivor to go for the hatch other than pointless greed since he can just go through the gates and take his win then and there
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omfg. No you don't need to 4k every match and I dare you to quote where he claimed you should. Rather you should 4k with equal likely hood as an equally skilled survivor team escaping, the exact number is flexible and is anywhere from 20% to 50%. I'd say 30% is ideal but that's just me
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Lets literally just take Leatherface and make him a billy reskin
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I noticed a Nea kept being behind me after I phased after her. So when she ran into the killers shack I just waited at the door and watched her run right towards me. Getting that hit off was so satisfying
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- Pick a strat.
- Does it help you win? Yes? Keep doing it. No? Go back to step 1
- Profit
You are trying to win. You are NOT trying to give the survivors a fun game. Do whatever you have to
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@MegaWaffle said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/344487#Comment_344487
Nurse is honestly better played without add-ons since he power is great and learning the timing of the blink is essential without add-ons changing things.
Billy can also do just fine without add-ons since his ability is pretty simple to figure out. The charge time add-ons may be nice but are not a requirement.
Huntress can do fine without add-ons but feels a little odd since you don't gain any status effects on your hatchets. Still perfectly fine without using them provided your aim is good.
Myers can make due without add-ons but you will feel how horribly long it takes to reach EW3 without a stalking increase, and against really dodgy survivors you may only ever get a single EW3 to pop in a match. He can work baseline but its on the line.
Pig (since her change) doesn't seem as add-on reliant although the whole point of the RBT is sort of mitigated since not having any downside to them (for survivors) sorta makes the ability feel...meh.
Even though I think Doctor has one of the most diverse build sets in the game and his add-ons can be really fun he can still work with just the Moldy Electrode add-on. Sure you won't be great in high rank games but Doctor isn't really built for that anyway.
In my opinion the only killers I feel who cannot do very well without add-ons (or who feel hollow without) are: Trapper, Wraith, Spirit, Hag, Leatherbilly, Freddy and Clown (I've not bough or played Legion so I cannot speak for him/her).
Spirit CAN do really good without addons. Her speed is good enough without addons already but even if it wasn't that speed isn't her primary tool but rather her mind games are.
In a chase 9/10 times if you can down them with addons you can down them without addons. The biggest things you need to be more effective is the speed at which you can start phasing and the recharge time.
The times when the speed helps is outside of a chase for things like map pressure. To be fair the addons ARE pretty important for that, but she doesn't RELY on them like you are saying.
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Nothing is toxic if done for a strategic benefit. Not even T-bagging (which can be used to bait a Killer away from an area while your allies can get away, heal, do gens there ect) and certainly not any of the things you just listed.
Same thing applies to Killer. Tunneling? Camping? Mori's? Not toxic if done strategically.
Toxicity is when you are deliberately and actively trying to ruin someone else's game. Doing a strategy that ruins someones game as a side effect does not qualify, instead it only qualify's if ruining their game is the INTENT
In the right context never chasing someone and letting them escape as killer can be considered toxic. It requires a very specific and weird situation but it is in theory possible.
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Also when balancing a game it isn't just balancing for the top. That is important but there is more to it than that. You have to keep things balanced in multiple different ways.
1: Raw power. This is what the "balancing for the top" is for. Everyone's absolute maximum theoretical ability to win should be exactly the same in a perfectly balanced game. This also means that random elements shouldn't have a combination that breaks the game. So for example if a perk made hitting a player give a 1% chance to instantly kill them with 0 hooks or build up then that would be MASSIVELY OP. This is despite the 99% chance making it completely unusable. This is because when it triggers the effect is too much and if it triggers 4 times in a row then the survivor's don't stand a chance)
2: Skill curve. This is the difference between the worst player and the best player. The absolute amount depends on your game (competitive games should always have a wider gap than casual games) but the important thing is that it is consistent between the different roles. If survivor is harder to learn than killers then that is an issue, either killer needs a larger skill gap or survivor needs a smaller one. A sign that this isn't working properly is when win rates change at different ranks which in general isn't something you want as it makes it impossible for the game to be balanced for everyone.
3: Counterplay. Unlike the first 2 points this is more of a micro thing. Rather than checking if a killer or survivor perk is balanced throughout a game you just ask "Is it balanced at this instant". This is where you have problems with Killers like the legion. Yeah sure the survivors as a whole will beat him no problem, but that doesn't change the fact that what he CAN do isn't something you can stop in any way. It's essentially the inverse of the first category. Instead of asking "how strong is this killer when he plays perfectly" you ask "how strong is this killer when the survivor's play perfectly".
Ideally any element of a game should A: Not be stronger than everything else. B: Get more useful as you improve at the same rate as everything else. And C: Do worse when the opposition is at THEIR best (which should then be nullified by A)
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Just wanted to point out. These responses:
60%: Spirit
40%: Everyone else combined
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@Luigifan64 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/344050#Comment_344050
So what do you think of the second idea? Where you don't have the recovery while running, but 4 can stack at all times as long as someone has the perk equipped (so it would be like Open Handed where you don't have to be by the person who has it).
The trade off for running Vigil (the one that DOES recover exhaustion while running), would be using that perk slot just for that ability. However if it proved too strong (we won't really know unless it got tested), it could apply the whole 80 seconds while running and only would apply the 20% while not running; then again I believe using a perks slot just for exhaustion regain is a fair trade-off.
The second idea is fine I guess. A little weak but outside of the exhaustion interaction, but the perk's fundamental idea is niche
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@Luigifan64 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/344042#Comment_344042
I mentioned it in the comment above, but the timer would double while you’re running, so with the effect of Vigil’s 20% decrease it’d be 64 seconds of running before a sprint perk becomes useable again. It’d also be a viable counter to exhaustion addons again, especially against huntress’ 60 second one and any clown one (seeing as how easy they are to hit). But I do agree, a 32 sec cool down in chase is FAR too strong, and I’m sorry that I didn’t mention the doubling effect earlier, it was a piece of information that I thought everyone would just automatically assume even though there was no way to.
I'd still say that's way too good. Remember that the times when that is going to come in to play are going to be the most unfun situations ever.
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You mean when crouching or just in general?