A Legion rework that the community can get behind
Whenever you look at Legion criticisms there are three main complaints:
- Mending is annoying
- Legion is a no skill killer
- Moon walking chase abusers ruin the game
So after thinking about how to make Legion not broken I have decided that the best course of action is to make Legion's Feral Frenzy apply the Broken status effect instead of Deep Wounds. Allow me to explain how this would work.
Feral Frenzy will still charge and drain as normal. Heck, we'll even keep the power bar depletion after a normal attack. However, now when you strike a healthy survivor they will be put into the injured state if they are not already and receive the Broken status effect for a short amount of time (how about 30 seconds?). Killer Instinct will still activate after hurting a survivor and will function exactly the same. If you stab a survivor that's already Broken while in Feral Frenzy you just extend the timer by 10 seconds (using knife Add-ons will now make the extension effect longer).
This means that survivors will no longer have to mend against Legion ever again. Additionally, you will not be able to down survivors by just spamming Frenzy stabs anymore. Finally, since all Broken does is prevent you from healing Moonwalking would no longer work after this change.
This means that in order to down a survivor Legion must get a successful melee hit in with a 110% movement speed killer.
Naturally we'll have to adjust some add-ons as well so here we go:
Stab Wound Study - Now increases the base Broken effect Duration by an additional 30 seconds. (After being stabbed in Feral Frenzy when you're not already Broken you will be Broken for 60 seconds if they don't stab you in Frenzy anymore.)
Frank's Mix Tape - Decreases the Broken effect timer's countdown speed by 50%.
Nasty Blade - Adds an additional 10 seconds to the Broken status effect's timer after a Frenzy stab on a Broken Survivor (Hitting a survivor in Frenzy will now extend their Broken Timer by 20 seconds.)
Filthy Blade Adds an additional 20 seconds to the Broken status effect's timer after a Frenzy stab on a Broken Survivor (Hitting a survivor in Frenzy will now extend their Broken Timer by 30 seconds.)
I'm eager to hear everyone's feedback. I'll answer all questions as soon as I'm able to.
Comments
I enjoy this very much. Very simple and could fix a few problems people might have.
Question:
Would you be forced into the fatigue state for hitting the same survivor? Or does that do nothing but waste your own time and give the survivor a mini sprint burst for free?
Can his add-ons also stack please? I feel like cooldown add-ons would be very powerful towards this. :)
@Shad03 Excellent question. I would like to keep the power as close to its original form as possible so when you strike a survivor that's already Broken in Feral Frenzy you do enter the fatigue state, however you also extend their broken timer by 10 seconds.
@Chaotic_Riddle Since in the live build Legion's add-ons don't stack I had no intention of making them stack now. That being said, I do believe that everyone else's add-ons stack so perhaps that's something to look into.
The only issue with this is the gen rush, you should want survivors to heal as it's time not on gens.
Making them broken removes that and it's escape and get on a gen especially if they can hit you so easily with FF making it the same scenario as mend in reality minus the moonwalk scenario, it's akin to making mend not go down within x meters of them instead.
If they can never down you with m2 then its a useless power for them and they become just a 110% m1 killer making them even weaker than they currently are.
The issue is FF and how it's designed, this still doesn't fix the no counterplay argument as any competent legion will always get the first hit in as they negate all the mechanics survivors have of breaking the chase and this at the same time makes them even more loopable and overall a lot weaker.
Counter play shouldnt be about getting hit and then becoming stronger in the chase against them.
GL catching survivors at 110% and if you made them 115% with this it would make them be a cheap easy first hit killer.
my suggestion is to remove the legion completely. i don't even care that i paid for this killer, i just want it removed. thank you
You forgot the "Legion isn't even a Killer, he's so bad." comments
@Jimsalabim Is a example of why we can't have nice things.
I literally thought about this as a rework for me boi
Healing getting a nerf to speed already made it so survivors just dont heal anymore. I don't at least. It takes too long and I could just do gens.
I honestly don't see how this is going to work. Against good survivors, it is extremely difficult to get melee hits with 110% ms. Yes, I did get my melee hits with killers like spirit, huntress, hag but it was because they tried to dodge my power (Trying to avoid a trap, spirit's mindgames and passive, me not respecting a pallet and instead of throwing a hatchet, simply continuing etc)
What if instead of causing Broken you make them go on a timer that once is full they go Broken?
If they dont heal in time then they go Broken and if you use Feral Frenzy you see the scratch marks of Broken survivors and if you hit them with Feral Frenzy you down them instantly.
This would solve the problem with people not healing against Legion. His power would be used as a tool to hurt multiple survivors and it would punish those who dare to laugh at the killer by not healing.
@Peasant
While I can appreciate the time you spent on this idea I know many people who simply don't heal vs the Legion (aside from mandatory mend) meaning his power would become 100% useless against this play-style. The broken status, as others have said, would encourage people to rush gens more vigorously (maybe low ranks would hide but not skilled players) and those who care little about being injured now laugh as Legion hits them with his power.
Not sure this idea hits the mark.
This would make even Legion even more annoying and removes the choice to heal or not.
Survivors should see the benefit of healing up but should not be forced to do it which is what this would do.
You need to be a dev, I love it!!
@twistedmonkey
This would change the "Rush Gens and get Adrenaline" meta tho, It would force survivors to bring perks like Bottany Knowledge, We'll Make It, Empathy, etc.
Also if people get the chance to just do gens instead of healing they'll do gens, it already happens against killers who are not Legion, at least in my case...
Edit: Forgot to tag you :)
@tt_ivi_99
No worries I always forget to tag :P
I still dont think it would solve the issue of Legion not being fun, first they need to look at why that is and the reason being is the free hit as the Legion and the hit, mend,hit, mend scenario along with them basically using the survivor mechanics.
If you force people to heal versus a mechanic which makes it so easy to hit you and then allow it to down someone if they chose not too then it teeters on the edge of becoming OP and I fear it would spike the DC rate even higher.
It would also mean no mither needs a new mechanic away from broken as they wouldnt be able to survive versus them at all.
The ease of the hit with Legion is what makes healing not worthwhile and while with other killers it leaves the survivors more disadvantaged with Legion being 110% it does not, I think that is the underlying issue with healing but also if they were 115% speed there power could become OP due to the easy first hit scenario, if you are seen you will be hit by FF by any competent Legion player, instead of hit mend, hit mend, hit mend, it then becomes hit heal, hit heal, hit heal which would be more annoying as its holding M1 still and takes even longer which doesnt really solve the underlying issue.
Against other killers I always want to heal up unless I see NOED or IH hatchets etc as it gives me two chances, against Legion I dont as I know if seen again I can be injured a lot easier than versus other killers.
@MegaWaffle
@Peasant idea is good for a basic start. There are more things that could be added along with the broken status such as blind effect and maybe a decrease in doing gens.
If you gut his kit like this (time lost from mending), then I think 115% movement would be fair.
The Legion's add-ons do stack. They simply don't state that anymore in the description. Yes, it's been tested.
In high ranks survivors already don't heal against Legion, not being able to down them with his power would make him even worse.
Imo what Legion need is more counterplay and more skill-requirement: let missed hits and vaults drop chunks of his power meter, so that jukes can be more effective and mindless spam from the killer would be penalyzed.
...
One thing people tend to forget is that Legion isn't just broken. He's also underpowered. These changes are fine so keep them, but we aren't done here
@Master Stealing my memes, eh?
Yes, that one is bookmarked now. Hope you don't mind =)
People already avoid healing against Legion - The Broken status will have zero impact on average gameplay. Unless this is a secret meta joke post, it's not a viable option without increasing his movement speed, which will only lead to further complaints about cheap first hits.
Without the ability to down people with his power, you may as well remove him from the game.
@Master Nah, I don’t mind, I’m actually happy to see people using my stuff, even if it takes me five minutes to make, lol. ❤️