NarkoTri1er
NarkoTri1er
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3922569#Comment_3922569
No, people don't want to be FORCED to slot a perk to have to deal with such an unhealthy playstyle. You literally speak like you NEVER play survivor, you have NO consideration for the other side when you talk.
Have you ever considered what it's like for NEW players who don't have these perks? Who don't know how to deal with said situations, they don't have the time to learn or adapt. You're expecting casual gameplay to be eliminated. This isn't the first time you've ignored the other side.
You speak like there is only comp players playing this game, a perk should never be the solution for a major game flaw.
Have you ever considered going for the person who is unhooking rather than the one unhooked??? You have perks for chase, you could build around that if you're struggling there. I'm so confused if perks are the answer to everything as you imply? Why don't you equip the perks for every situation then?No, people don't want to be FORCED to slot a perk to have to deal with such an unhealthy playstyle. You literally speak like you NEVER play survivor, you have NO consideration for the other side when you talk.
i used to be a hardcore killer main before i turned exclusively to playing survivor with my friends and your take is absolutely flawed because you literally act survivor should have to bring whatever perks they want in any case.
Do you know that killers nowadays are literally forced to run Corrupt every single match to combat early gen splitting? Do you know that killer meta consists of like 5-6 perks while survivor meta consists of 20+ perks?
Have you ever considered what it's like for NEW players who don't have these perks? Who don't know how to deal with said situations, they don't have the time to learn or adapt. You're expecting casual gameplay to be eliminated. This isn't the first time you've ignored the other side.
c'mon, let's not pretend we care about new perks while we enjoy juking 10h perkless Trappers. On another note, spoonfeeding new to mid players by giving them free ways to counter all of their opponent strats is definitely not motivating them to improve, that's motivating them to never improve.
Have you ever considered going for the person who is unhooking rather than the one unhooked??? You have perks for chase, you could build around that if you're struggling there. I'm so confused if perks are the answer to everything as you imply? Why don't you equip the perks for every situation then?
this is pure 0 awareness of the game. Peak of 0 awareness of the game.
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@Prometheus1092 said:
And survivors will still complain about tunneling, I guarantee it
because they are waiting for 100% autopilot way to counter tunneling even tho they already had all the tools needed to counter it with StB release.
Babysitter still doesn't provide it, you still need to have at least a bit of skill to use it ;)
@100PercentBPMain said:
Killers mindlessly secure hooks so that's their reward
Just go for the unhooker
this is hypotheticaly true only if surv was unhooked in your face, which is literally not a case in any team that has at least a bit of macro game knowledge
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@100PercentBPMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3921485#Comment_3921485
By weaker killers i mean people with less game sense. People who don't know how to win. As in, face camping and thinking that's gonna win the game by making survivors rage and die to altruism.
Good killers were already proxy camping because face camp gives 0 pressure. That's why I say weak killers face camped. Bhvr literally whispered in their ear the wisdom of the ancients and now every killer proxy camps like a pro.
no matter what kind of camping it is, there are cases where you should do it depending on map and hook placement. Proxy camping a "useless" hook is the same as facecamping it (talking about pre anti-facecamp meter era)
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@DeBecker said:
Why is it too strong? Show me those situations when it is too strong.
literally taking a hit for another survivor and thus helping them reach a safe tile in a game where taking hits for teammates is already a very powerful way to play as survivor
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i think at this point you are looking for the Skull Merchant treatment for Kaneki bro
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quite likely a hot take in this community, but if they didn't touch him at all with Kaneki PTB, we wouldn't have any of these problems.
I literally knew it's gonna take such a time to even attempt bringing him back to feel like he was before the very first time they touched him to limit flicks to 90°
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BHVR is making preparations for FNAF chapters by completely neglecting balance and deciding to go fullon with turning dbd into horror fortnite with making stuff completely broken again.
A new dark age of dbd arises
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i agree that Blight should receive the same treatment since momoteching with Brutal is so easy while being massively rewarding
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btw even if you turn your dpi as down to 600 with sens at default, it still takes just a very small mouse movement to do a full 180
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3922193#Comment_3922193
…How?
It's Haste and light stealth elements. How on earth could those be abused?
bodyblocking with endurance exists for such a long time, Babysitter further empowers it. Have a Babysitter user unhook you, you have OTR and you're ready to help any other survivor being chased on the map by now being able to reach them even faster. Not to mention that you can now run away for free because your MS is higher than killer base MS
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@jesterkind said:
Maybe they wanted to remind people it existed, I don't see it very often.
Since it's one of the only anti-tunnel perks that cannot, in any way, possibly be abused, I'm not that worried about it being buffed. It is still a somewhat strange pick, though.
it actually can be abused to a very high degree for aggressive anti-tunneling, now it's gonna be even more miserable to face taking in mind that it was already an A+ tier perk
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BHVR: we want to improve experience for no mobility killers
also BHVR: buffs Babysitter, let's Duty of Care reach PTB in current state and makes aggressive usage of anti-tunneling perks even more miserable to vs. Great job BHVR, we truly are approaching the dark age in terms of balance again
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@Yoshirama said:
we need to next prevention, but first they need to fix the causes of it, aka tunneling and camping… and some fixes to some maps and killers (some anime boy) then we can talk about the go next prevention
you already have all the tools needed to counter tunneling and camping, so go next prevention is more than ready for being implemented.
Ohh, let's not forget that going next early literally forces early 3v1 way more often than tunneling nowadays :)
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@Spaceboi_Scaphandre said:
As time has gone on and we've had so many killers added to the game, there's one killer who stands out from the rest of the roster: Blight. Next to Nurse, he's the best killer in the game, with both a high pick rate and high kill rate, as well as a massive power disparity from every other killer in the game that it makes me ask: Why?
Despite being one of the two best killers in the game, Blight has a low skill floor. His power is stupidly simple, just press the power button to rush and bump off walls. His skill ceiling then comes from map knowledge, how you can reliably bump off walls to catch survivors. But despite this really strong power, he can do normal chases just fine so even if you're still learning how to effectively use his power you can still chase survivors like you were a regular M1 killer, then just easily go into rush once you caught them in a bad spot to quickly get them. Compare that to the other best killer in the game Nurse who is the slowest killer in the game moving slower than normal survivor speed to make up for the fact she can go through walls. But Blight doesn't have such a weakness, he's just a direct upgrade compared to other killers, and his addons make an already overpowered killer even more powerful.
Because of this, he has a high pick rate and high kill rate, as despite this high skill ceiling with map knowledge anyone can pick up and play him and get good results with him, even if you're a survivor main. Which begs the question: Why? Why is it he's as powerful as he is, when all these other killers even Nurse have glaring weaknesses or counters to them, some of which are baked into their kits? Why is it that Xenomorph has to have flame turrets that knocks him out of it's power, but Blight is fine as he is? Why does Dredge have locks on the lockers to counter him, but Blight is fine as he is? Why can't Legion see scratchmarks when using their power, but Blight can?
The power disparity from Blight compared to the other killers is so high that it makes me question why all the other killers in the roster are designed the way they are with their big weaknesses or low power level, but Blight gets a pass with having little to no weaknesses other than pallets. If Xenomorph didn't have the flame turrets he'd still be weaker than Blight. If Vecna didn't have the treasure chests, he'd still be weaker than Blight. If Dredge didn't have the locker locks he'd still be weaker than Blight. If Pyramid Head could send survivors to cages without needing them tormented he'd still be weaker than Blight. Hell give the Pig 10 reverse bear traps and she'd still be weaker than Blight.
Why bother with all these weaknesses for the other killers when Blight's been virtually unchanged for years? It just seems unfair that all these new killers that have all these interesting kits have massive glaring weaknesses, when Blight's over there being a direct upgrade.
What I'm about to say will probably make a lot of people mad, but Blight should probably be nerfed. He is just way too strong and has been left overtuned for years compared to the rest of the killer roster. His power has no downsides to using it, and he can chase just fine without needing to use it, so why is it like this? There's three avenues that could be done to nerf Blight while still keeping him strong:
- Take away two rush charges capping him to three. Does he really need five charges, with some of his addons increasing it to seven? He already gets a lot of distance and has a normal run speed. I do not think he needs five charges. Kaneki is limited to just three charges with his leaps, and he has to damage someone with his power to get it to three so it's at two normally. But Blight just gets five from the start and they recharge quickly.
- Decrease his base movement speed to make up for the fact he can rush. Nurse has her base movement speed at slower than base survivor movement speed to make up for the fact she breaks the rules of the game going through walls and obstacles. But Blight has no such weakness, he's just a direct upgrade over every M1 killer
- Remove scratchmarks when rushing. This would increase his skill floor as you would really need to know where they're going and how loops work, and give survivors more counterplay to Blight to fake him out. Spirit's power is super powerful but she cannot see survivors while in it to make up for that, which gives a high skill ceiling when using her as you gotta rely on sound to hit them. Legion cannot see scratchmarks when in Feral Frenzy and can only see survivors with killer instinct after hitting someone. But Blight can see scratchmarks when rushing just fine, making an already powerful killer even more powerful.
The only other option would be giving every other killer massive buffs to get them closer to power to Blight, but I know that's not realistically possible so nerfing Blight is the only other option. But hey, I guess we should nerf Kaneki right? After all he can quickly injure you and dash around the map just like Blight, only his power cannot down survivors but Blight's can, and Blight has more dash charges than Kaneki. (Now I await the replies that say I'm dumb, stupid, and dumb)
reducing rush tokens is a very bad proposal, much better thing would be that tokens reset after he gets stunned.
Also his token recharge time should be slightly increased, fatigue should be prolonged and maybe he should become a 110 killer
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let's repeat basic knowledge: wiggle system was never meant to be your free card to wiggle off killer's grasp, they were there to prevent killer from taking you to whichever hook they want based on where you got downed so that they can't get their beneficial hooks (basement hook, scourge hook and very often hooks inside 3-gen) aka. punish killer for being too confident about taking you to a beneficial hook.
You are meant to force killer to down you in a zone without actually beneficial hooks so that wiggle system keeps them away from hooking you wherever they want.
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@vol4r said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3921805#Comment_3921805
I wouldn't agree. I find more enjoyment in normal mode, that's all.
Playing killer would be so much better tho, I would prefer that in 2v8 but waiting time is just too long for me. I always play side that has smallest waiting time
i also find more enjoyment in normal mode since it's much less chaos yeah, but was never bothered with BPs at all they were even quite often sitting at 2M cap because i just couldn't bother spending them
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@Malkhrim said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3921801#Comment_3921801
I've been saying this for a long time. Remove the 4% and remove the instant death on missed skillchecks. The 4% mechanic rarely ever makes any difference in a match for anything that isn't throwing the game on purpose, it's just not worth keeping in the game.
literally this. And a little unrelated, but it's funny to see my comment having so many downvotes, i guess people want their way of griefing to stay in the game so that they can cherrypick their matches freely 24/7
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@vol4r said:
No incentives is deal-breaking for me. I play with 3-4 cobblers/bloody party streamer every game with my friends.
Playing 2v8 for 30-40k BP might not work for me.
We should enable BP offerings in this mode.
if BPs are the only thing that gets you going to play the game and this mode, you are simply just fundamentally not enjoying the game at all.
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just remove the 4%, it's used to grief in 99% of cases and just contributes with RNG aspect even more. Make unhooking yourself only possible with perks like Deli and Wicked
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@Pit_Bull_Love said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3921733#Comment_3921733
You think killers can't zone? Well, I have great news for you! You have a lot of room for improvement!
Also I like you think survivors can take away a camping killer in every situation. Sometimes, sure, but other times the killer isn't going to go far because they want the free hits from the one unhooking and then a few moments later the one who was unhooked.
Camping and tunneling are rampant in this game, we all know it.
You think killers can't zone? Well, I have great news for you! You have a lot of room for improvement!
some killers can zone you, Blightand Slinger for example, but a good survivor in a good team can take care of it.
Also I like you think survivors can take away a camping killer in every situation. Sometimes, sure, but other times the killer isn't going to go far because they want the free hits from the one unhooking and then a few moments later the one who was unhooked.
only actual situation when survivors can't take away a camping killer is if survivor gets downed near a 3-gen hook (Rotten Fields basement hook for example), but for that chased survivor needs to make serious mistake and actually not go as far away from that zone when they know they are going to be downed soon as possible. In other cases, camping is just a suicide mission for killer.
Camping and tunneling are rampant in this game, we all know it.
why do your teammates want to unhook you asap against camping killer and thus swarm the hook?
why do you and your teammates last 20s in chase and why do your teammates not do any gens if you manage to have solid chase without going near any gens being potentially repaired?
Camping and tunneling are rampant because average survivor lets them be rampant and does nothing to counter them.
@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3921733#Comment_3921733
survivor literally controls the direction of the chase
Let me know how that goes, the next time you loop a killer. You go clockwise and see if the killer follows you the same direction.
Watch any killer who knows what they're doing and be disabused of this notion.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3921722#Comment_3921722
You're literally doing nothing. You're not participating in the game in order to get a consolation prize. It's basically the same as the 'go next' syndrome, where they're playing from habit, not from actually deriving joy from it.
Let me know how that goes, the next time you loop a killer. You go clockwise and see if the killer follows you the same direction.
Watch any killer who knows what they're doing and be disabused of this notion.
i can force a killer to down me at the worst possible tile for them as possible so that they can't attempt to camp me, that's the "direction of chase" i 'm talking about. Plus, clockwise/counterclockwise is a very 50/50 thing.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3921703#Comment_3921703
Is it really difficult for an average killer to direct the chase?
Survivors can't zone the killer, they're not the power role.
survivor literally controls the direction of the chase, only brutal zoning Blight or Kaneki can truly shift the chase direction r chase being at edge tile, which is still a 50/50 for killer to successfully redirect it, literally lol.
I thought this would become basic knowledge by now, but i guess it isn't.
And survivors can literally zone killer by forcing a down away from a very beneficial hook from the killer, another thing that should be the most basic knowledge, but looks like it isn't.
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@Suei said:
Wesker is already in a good state, I don't think he needs a rework
i don't think he is in a good state, but not rework wise. He desperately needs some buffs because he has been heavily powercrept. Pure example is Dracula having his wolf form only better than whole Wesker's kit
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3921680#Comment_3921680
and atleast have the anticamp range be the entire terror radius?
I wouldnt mind it being buffed to 24 meters. I think 32 is too much.
Honestly, terror/lullaby radius makes sense. Killers with longer TRs specifically have those for their ability to put out immediate pressure at longer distances. If a killer can be lethal at range, the anti-camp should reflect that. TR wouldn't be perfect for it, since you'd have to sidestep stuff like undetectable, but using a killer's terror/lullaby radius as the basis for their anti-camp radius would make a lot of sense.
what kind of sense it makes at all?
We are already crossing boundaries of fighting toxic usage of specific strategy in the desire to completely wipe out an already dead strategy.
I really have to ask: is it really difficult for average player to zone killer away from 3-gen hooks(only actually beneficial hooks for camping) and force a down near hooks that actually aren't beneficial at all?
Because that's literally all you have to do to render camping completely useless, even anti-facecamp mechanic as a whole was not needed at all
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
More and more interaction has been removed from the game between Killer and Survivor ontop of survivors being able to interact with the game in general:
-Flashlight angles reduced as a result of nerfing flashbangs
-Lightburn removed (I feel like killers who are effected by it should have had a new mechanic akin to singularity to fight back their power with new items/interactions)
-Kaneki/Blight/Nurse etc exist
-Slugging exists more as a result of more widespread knowledge (thanks killer streamers)
-Tunneling exists again as a result of more widespread knowledge (again thanks killer streamers)
-Second Chance builds is the only build to avoid the above.
-Servers are so awful, hit detection is so much more whack than it used to be. So many killers get stupid hids who have high mobility/fast moving projectiles!!! THIS ONE IS PROBABLY ONE OF THE BIGGEST FACTORS.
-More and more hindered/haste stacking exists on killer side
-Pentimento exists
-Small Coldwind with no loops and Haddonfield exist
-Franklins still has no counter (perk or addon that lets you keep items in hand)
-Perks like Mirrored illusion/Bardic give NO points on usage, don't feel rewarding to use at all
-Anti-Camp is one of the most useless easy to exploit systems made for this game
-Invocations are perks designed around the ideaology that survivors have room to take such huge risks (they dont)
-Boons take too much time to set up and are too weak for the investment
-Chests are so far and few between and give no addons without a perk, and broken keys and maps exist which are useless without them.
-Medkits self heal was nerfed to the point even self care + Botany is better, med kit tiers not being better in any way upon tier up is one of the worst things they've ever added.
-Gen slowdown stacking feels like you can be on a single gen for up to 2 minutes or more at a time, it's awful
-Calm Spirit has still not had its downside removed LMAO
-Lobby Dodging is making MMR Redundant.
The list could go on, and on and on and on and on. Of course there are issues on killer side too, but there is soooo many issues rn with survivor, and we havn't even gotten to the bugs yet.this is gonna be a long one:
-Flashlight angles reduced as a result of nerfing flashbangs
flashlight saves were already easier to do than they ever were, so adding a bit more skill expression doesn't hurt at all. I don't see how this impacts give up rates.
-Lightburn removed (I feel like killers who are effected by it should have had a new mechanic akin to singularity to fight back their power with new items/interactions)
can't see how this impacts give up rates either.
-Kaneki/Blight/Nurse etc exist
unless we are talking about Brutal zoning Blight and aura reading Nurse, these killers are so fun to play against.
Slugging exists more as a result of more widespread knowledge (thanks killer streamers)
slugging got more encouraged thanks to hooks becoming more beneficial for survs, where forcing and spreading hooks is basically a free card to handicap yourself. BHVR is responsible for this. And it actually is counterable.
-Tunneling exists again as a result of more widespread knowledge (again thanks killer streamers)
tunneling exists because of 20s chase times. You now have pretty much enough tools to stop a tunneler dead on their tracks consistently. Purely players' fault
-Second Chance builds is the only build to avoid the above.
second chance builds are used for other purposes than just countering the above lol.
Servers are so awful, hit detection is so much more whack than it used to be. So many killers get stupid hids who have high mobility/fast moving projectiles!!! THIS ONE IS PROBABLY ONE OF THE BIGGEST FACTORS.
servers are awful in terms of frequent crashes, not giving up rates. And game is not peer-to-peer anymore btw.
More and more hindered/haste stacking exists on killer side
so does haste stacking on surv side. With new Orella perk it's gonna become even worse. On killer side i would nuke PWYF tho.
Pentimento exists
although very problematic, it received a good nerf in PTB, so can't be used as an excuse anymore.
Small Coldwind with no loops and Haddonfield exist
so 2 realms are reasons why people give up? Lol
Franklins still has no counter (perk or addon that lets you keep items in hand)
as long as Syringes exist in the game in their current state, i won't blame anyone using Franklins and perk is fine as it is.
Perks like Mirrored illusion/Bardic give NO points on usage, don't feel rewarding to use at all
why would they give points? Are BPs all that matters in the game?
Anti-Camp is one of the most useless easy to exploit systems made for this game
in an ideal world where people actually learned how to play against campers, camping rate would drop significantly because killers would learn how situational it is, and there would be even no need for anti-facecamp.
Not to mention that most of the times your teammates are the ones hindering you from progress on anti-facecamp.
Invocations are perks designed around the ideaology that survivors have room to take such huge risks (they dont)
you don't need to use them tho.
Boons take too much time to set up and are too weak for the investment
too weak? Lol, CoH is still good in SWFs, Exponential is also good, Shadowstep is okay.
Chests are so far and few between and give no addons without a perk, and broken keys and maps exist which are useless without them.
if ppl are really giving up because of this, then idk what to tell.
Medkits self heal was nerfed to the point even self care + Botany is better, med kit tiers not being better in any way upon tier up is one of the worst things they've ever added
is this a joke? Medkits are still literally the most powerful item and with Surgical Suture healing speed is very decent. Not to mention Syringes as the ultimately overpowered addon.
Gen slowdown stacking feels like you can be on a single gen for up to 2 minutes or more at a time, it's awful
except if we are talking about quad slowdowns on S-tiers, gen slowdowns even though still meta because nothing else is really useful are in the worst state they've ever been.
Calm Spirit has still not had its downside removed LMAO
why would you even use it?
Lobby Dodging is making MMR Redundant.
even though it's cringe to avoid competent SWFs, i don't see any problem in dodging bully squads.
The list could go on, and on and on and on and on. Of course there are issues on killer side too, but there is soooo many issues rn with survivor, and we havn't even gotten to the bugs yet.
tbh, almost whole list is just a "game still isn't easy enough for us to win on autopilot so we will keep giving up until we face perkless Trappers" complaining.
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@[Deleted User] said:
some content creator needs to hype up reassurance for solo queue
i gave up trying to prove people Reassurance is a very powerful perk, ana not even only for countering camping since there is no way you will be able to convince average player anything that is actually good is good.
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Dracula, Oni, Houndmaster, Slinger and Nemy definitely aren't underpowered.
Chucky, Clown, Trickster and Freddy are definitely not way too weak.
Twins deserve a tier called "not really overpowered, but very unhealthy for the game
Blight definitely belongs into the "overpowered" tier.
Hag and Bubba are definitely way too weak.
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Perks should not be the ONLY counter to other perks.
It's completely valid for perks to counter strategies tho
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@adawong300 said:
Constantly. Constantly. Every match my aura is constantly being read. Distortion has been the only counter to this, and, with its recent nerf, it makes it almost useless.
Either revert these changes or limit Killer aura reading perks. It is getting so ridiculous and tiresome constantly being located at any given moment.
This game was fun because there used to have tension. Now, its just being found, 2 second chase, instant down. Some players will simply never be able to run insane loops. Even with my 1500 hours. If anything, slow down gen progression to balance instead of giving us 100 perks to chose from and then nerf them all into uselessness.
This also feels like part of a larger problem where solo queue is being nerfed due to SWFs. Create separate game limitations for SWFs so solo queuers no longer have to pay the price.
Constantly. Constantly. Every match my aura is constantly being read. Distortion has been the only counter to this, and, with its recent nerf, it makes it almost useless.
OTR, Boon: Shadowstep, getting in locker, hiding behind generator to blend with gen aura. And Distortion is somehow...the only counter?
This game was fun because there used to have tension. Now, its just being found, 2 second chase, instant down. Some players will simply never be able to run insane loops. Even with my 1500 hours. If anything, slow down gen progression to balance instead of giving us 100 perks to chose from and then nerf them all into uselessness.
"2 second chase, instant down"
there is the core of your problem, you don't need to be insane in terms of skill to at least have 60s chase from healthy to downed against majority of killers.
This also feels like part of a larger problem where solo queue is being nerfed due to SWFs. Create separate game limitations for SWFs so solo queuers no longer have to pay the price.
this was literally not a nerf for soloQ, but rather a buff because it reduced amount of people who hide and do nothing all match by a significant margin.
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@Lixadonna said:
You sound like a Killer Main pretending to be a Survivor. Why would a Survivor complain about this.
with these changes, killer can basically abandon the match after establishing 4-men slug and basically never raise their MMar so that they can constantly play against full fresh install teams
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because let's stick with "EasyAntiCheat" (better said EasyToCheat) rather than to get another proper anticheat into the game and at least make better report system
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3919781#Comment_3919781
How dare they play the game casually and make mistakes (SARCASM) lol
This is exactly what's driving a lot of people away from the gamei think the biggest problem in this game is that it fundamentally doesn't reward improvement at all (bad matchmaking, more and more unnecessary changes that just motivate you to become worse etc.).
The only way to truly become better is to push yourself further into the scrims and tournaments (and trust me, that's the greatest fun i used to have in dbd because i was finally able to play with people who all played like a team, not throw and went for ein while everything was balanced), but that's something not part of the base game nor info available to people at all unless they dig deeper into this community.
Along with all of this comes complete lack of understanding for power of many perks, mechanics and other stuff, people act like this and this is op while other stuff is underpowered without having the slightest insight on any of it.
The one thing i also noticed is people acting like being a casual players equals to not having to improve at all and i think it was also induced by course of game development and very flawed matchmaking (and also one very popular game that gave birth to this kind of mentality: Fortnite).
Overall, i think that game would be much better if matchmaking was better, we had ranked or at least people were better informed of what scrims and tournaments in dbd are and people would generally gain much more game knowledge than they do have now.
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@CautionaryMary said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3920544#Comment_3920544
I don't understand Shoulder The Burden in regards to 12 hooking or to help mitigate tunneling. -> this is like comparing it to Second Wind (helps being tunneled if you can outlast the broken status) - I've seen you or @NarkoTri1er complain about this perk.
Same for For The People, I can unhook someone, see the killer coming, and transfer my health state to them - same concept.
You already get told that someone StB, it shows a permanent hook tally on the person, and the person is exposed? Why not return back to hook, down the exposed person (sure, they might use Vigil to reduce the exposed lol) - why not take the free down and get the StB person on hook? They're death hook now, why so fixated on the recent unhooked injured person? StB is a high risk, high reward perk and having the idea that because you've downed someone, I get to tunnel, it doesn't mean you should get a free down and easier game.
@danielmaster87 / my edit : - 90 second hook timers became a thing when they increased gen times, but for some reason Behavior took a long time to do this change. It's ten extra seconds, if you would prefer we can go back to the regular gen and hook stage time limits, but I assure you that you do not want that — do not be disingenuous.
I don't understand Shoulder The Burden in regards to 12 hooking or to help mitigate tunneling. -> this is like comparing it to Second Wind (helps being tunneled if you can outlast the broken status) - I've seen you or @NarkoTri1er complain about this perk.
since tunneling is a strategy that can basically give results only if it's applied earlier into the match as a way to take advantage of survivors making mistake in early game, this perk mitigates this by a wide margin.
Also, this perk mitigates heavy amount of pressure applied to a survivor due to them finishing on 2nd hook, because two survivors on 1 hook state is eons better than having one survivor on death hook, but many people who don't understand using altruism in it's proper form will fail to understand this.
Not to mention that Exposed timer for StB is not that long at all and in most cases it will run out way before you get hit.
You already get told that someone StB, it shows a permanent hook tally on the person, and the person is exposed? Why not return back to hook, down the exposed person (sure, they might use Vigil to reduce the exposed lol) - why not take the free down and get the StB person on hook? They're death hook now, why so fixated on the recent unhooked injured person? StB is a high risk, high reward perk and having the idea that because you've downed someone, I get to tunnel, it doesn't mean you should get a free down and easier game.
umm...first of all no smart player will unhook right after killer leaves the hook (and a lot of players who complain about tunneling are the ones doing this), especially if hook is in the resource deadzone. Unhooking right after killer leaves the hook and is still close by is not the flaw of perk and 40s exposed timer, it's exclusively fault of survivor unhooking who is not taking advantage of hook timer and is too impatient to go for an unhook.
StB is not a high risk perk if you understand when you should go for an unhook.
my edit : - 90 second hook timers became a thing when they increased gen times, but for some reason Behavior took a long time to do this change. It's ten extra seconds, if you would prefer we can go back to the regular gen and hook stage time limits, but I assure you that you do not want that — do not be disingenuous.
+10s to hook timer was extremely unnecessary for 90s gen timers, it was fine previously even though it could be abused to gain advantage. Survivor on the hook is technically invulnerable, and that's why you should be careful about when you are going for an unhook.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3920143#Comment_3920143
Shoulder the Burden - forces 12-hooking
Doesn't do this at all, even if the killer doesn't understand the first thing about this perk (like you don't). StB telegraphs that is in play and can only be used once per survivor. If perfectly executed, and every survivor brings this perk, you get a free exposed down (half a chase) on everyone but the first, and it can only be used 4 times total. And the survivor using it screams at you that they have it.
Deliverance - easily denying hook pressure for killer
I won't deny that deliverance could be good if RNG is working in your favor. But if even one teammate doesn't know you have it (which isn't base kit) or you get hooked first, it's a dead perk slot. Survivors do not choose who is chased or hooked.
Dead Hard - a goated perk even against S-tiers
OTR - tank hits for your teammates to correct their pathing
Both of these are hard countered by hitting the survivor off hook. Dead hard is two uses per game, ever.
DS - severely underrated perk which easily forces lose-lose situations + easily forced by jumping into a locker
DS is one of the most easily telegraphed perks in the game. If you're picking up a survivor who isn't on gens and running at your face, that is entirely you not reading the situation. Even lockers, you can walk away and let them reconsider their life choices. DS only works for 60 seconds, and it's entirely avoidable by the killer. The only time this should ever trigger is if you're actually tunneling (which is exactly what it's for), or if you walk into it face first because you have the game sense of a fence post.
Reassurance - one of the best perks in the entire game that is not only anticamp, but also has more absolutely good uses people are not aware abou
It could be good if it actually deterred camping, but since this perk is nearly 2 years old now and was gutted from ptb before it even hit live, this perk is so rarely useful is hilarious. They've had to add anti hook grab, AFC, and even have planned an upcoming "anti camp feature" because nothing they've done (including reassurance) is meaningful against camping.
I'll also add, that "has absolutely more good uses" is purely wrong. It's only ever good if the killer is actually camping. If you're using reassurance to run up and leave someone on hook and the killer isn't nearby, you're playing it wrong. Unhooking is always the right play there, and it's why good teams will "hook bomb" to unhook as fast as possible, and keep like pressure to a minimum.
Giving the killer more pressure for free, especially when you have to be within 6m to even activate the perk is just simply a bad play.
FYFY. And if this is your take on survivor perks, I really want to see video of your solo q gameplay.
sorry but your comment as a whole is completely wrong understanding of macro and micro managing of mentioned perks.
Doesn't do this at all, even if the killer doesn't understand the first thing about this perk (like you don't). StB telegraphs that is in play and can only be used once per survivor. If perfectly executed, and every survivor brings this perk, you get a free exposed down (half a chase) on everyone but the first, and it can only be used 4 times total. And the survivor using it screams at you that they have it.
it literally does force 12-hooking because it makes early tunneling (also the only viable way of tunneling and ONLY IF there is a chain of mistakes made by survivors) completely useless. You don't need every survivor to bring the perk to get a massive value out of it, but i guess average player doesn't unserstand how to use selfless perks.
I won't deny that deliverance could be good if RNG is working in your favor. But if even one teammate doesn't know you have it (which isn't base kit) or you get hooked first, it's a dead perk slot. Survivors do not choose who is chased or hooked.
on actual high level of gameplay, if you make a mistake of being the first one chased, your teammate will take the chase in order to make you not waste Deli slot. And survivors can definitely choose who will be chased and hooked lol.
Both of these are hard countered by hitting the survivor off hook. Dead hard is two uses per game, ever.
bro OTR endurance is lost by hitting a survivor right off the hook ONLY IF survivor is unhooked in killer's face, which is absolutely the worst move you can make unless you were already greeding the hook against camping killer.
DH is two uses per game (and more with StB) and even with two uses it's very powerful lol.
DS is one of the most easily telegraphed perks in the game. If you're picking up a survivor who isn't on gens and running at your face, that is entirely you not reading the situation. Even lockers, you can walk away and let them reconsider their life choices. DS only works for 60 seconds, and it's entirely avoidable by the killer. The only time this should ever trigger is if you're actually tunneling (which is exactly what it's for), or if you walk into it face first because you have the game sense of a fence post.
"even lockers, you can walk away"...dude that is the point, you get indirect value off DS by making killer leave you, you literally forced them into a lose-lose situation by making them have to either leave you or take the stun.
DS literally works very well even at high skill levels because even if you down a DS carrier bodyblocking for their teammate, they will usually have UB or another perk to pick themselves up (or teammate can do it) which means you literally got value out of it.
Can we stop acting like only value of DS is when you actually stun the killer picks you up? Because that's a pure proof of bad understanding of the perk.
It could be good if it actually deterred camping, but since this perk is nearly 2 years old now and was gutted from ptb before it even hit live, this perk is so rarely useful is hilarious. They've had to add anti hook grab, AFC, and even have planned an upcoming "anti camp feature" because nothing they've done (including reassurance) is meaningful against camping.
lol? They added hook grabs removal for other reasons, anti-facecamp meter for...facecamping and they planned another anticamp feature because they care more about further buffing surv role and giving more power to it overall by making skill of average player just deteriorate even further.
And saying Reassurance is overall bad? One thing, first of all +10s to hook timer is one of the great ways you could see how it is powerful, not only against campers, but in many other scenarios too, because hook greeding is not only powerful in case of camping killers. It just takes a bit of deeper intensity of game knowledge to understand the massive power this perk holds lol.
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@Shaped said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3920149#Comment_3920149
People use dh because most survs perks are not as good as they once were so you don't have much choice anyway.
Dh is at least on demand like dramaturgy. I was never fan of lithe for example because sometimes you want to stay at the tile after you vault.
Dh is not trash like some people say but it's far from what it once was, especially og.
People use dh because most survs perks are not as good as they once were so you don't have much choice anyway.
sorry but survivor meta got more diverse over the time, there is plethora of strong survivor perks, DH is picked because it is good against every single tier of killers.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3920093#Comment_3920093
If Dead Hard is so bad, why do all the good survivors still run it? Flashbang is balanced now, just can't go through the killer's body/walls. I prefer to be the obsession when I run Object; it is SO not a bad perk, unless you've already lost anyway. Invocations aren't so black and white, as one is a BNP on every gen on-map, and the other is wall hacks against any nearby killer (unless there's like zero crows around), but yeah there's probably better stuff to run. And Desperate Measures, agreed that it's a strong perk, because besides the healing speed (which affects self-heals too) it also increases unhooking speed which catches killers off-guard.
you don't get to use a perk as many times in a match as you want = bad perk, basically the logic of average player
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@Cyber686 said:
dbd is killer sided, why are killers still whining? i dont get it.
bait used to be believable
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Shoulder the Burden - forces 12-hooking
Deliverance - easily denying hook pressure for killer
Dead Hard - a goated perk even against S-tiers
OTR - tank hits for your teammates to correct their pathing
DS - severely underrated perk which easily forces lose-lose situations + easily forced by jumping into a locker
honorable mention:
Reassurance - one of the best perks in the entire game that is not only anticamp, but also has more absolutely good uses people are not aware abou
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yes he is. The biggest problem with Blight atm lie in:
- Brutal zoning being so easy and powerful, making Brutal Strength ridiculously slow on him.
- Tokens recharge way too fast and should reset when killer gets stunned imo.
- He gets out of fatigue way too fast;
- He should (maybe) become a 110 killer, but i don't think it'd do much regarding his momotech playstyle so something definitely has to be done about that one first
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well, could reinstall the game and inv my friend to play some Legion with me as Oni
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remember when "autowin button" used to be gimmick? Now it's becoming reality for survivors lol.
2 last survivors stalling the game used to be a thing where they force killer into a DC so that those two survs basically get free escape + was considered holding the game hostage. Now it's gonna be legitimate strategy to autowin the game LOLOLOLOL.
As for 4-men slugs, by what logic does abandoning match as surv in that case count as a...DRAW?
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@Defnotmeghead said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3915780#Comment_3915780
I can very easily contradict your entire statement by simply saying: blood event still had a killrate higher than 50%, despite corrupt intervention and gen regression not working, despite blood gens being generally faster to finish.
Besides, Corrupt Intervention rarely shows up when I playthat just shows how terrible average surv player is even more because you can give them easiest path to win and thay will still not be able rto get advantage of it lol
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@Cassiopeiae said:
Every single killer was running map offerings and they've all been Ghoul/Nurse etc, you get the picture.
I thought this was the meme around mode?
Chaos Shuffle was never a meme mode and people were always bringing map offerings and busted map offerings + items and addons to compensate for getting random perks in loadout. The only thing that should've been done is item/addon randomizer and disabling map offerings.
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#1 Blight
#2 Nurse
#3 Billy
Kaneki is maybe top 5 but definitely not capable of being in top 3.
On the other hand, i still don't understand illusion of thinking how Nurse is better than Blight
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why would anyone want BPs when you have the event with most unfair and boring mechanics ever
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@Atom7k said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3917545#Comment_3917545
There is no legit optimal use of facecamping tunneling at 5 gens. We call that skill issue or abusing a poorly designed game system. What makes this "strategy" so disgusting is that it entirely relies on survivors being altruistic.
If the survivors wouldn't care they would make it out by the time the tunneled survivor dies. However most people are not that way, which is good and the reason dbd is still somewhat playable. I call it toxic because it contributes frustration, anger and non altruistic behaviour to an already struggeling game.
And here you go with the exact argument I was talking about. Countering bad playstyle shouldn't be mandatory to learn to play a game normal yet casual. You shift the responsibility off of the killer or the game and basically blame the survivor for not being good enough.
Stuff like that kills a game.
It is contributing to the fact that the playerbase has halfed in just under a year (Juli 2024 - 100k players vs today 52k players)
Accept the fact that most people want to play this game casually and don't want to spend a thousand hours learning how to counter bs strategies before they can casually play the game.There is no legit optimal use of facecamping tunneling at 5 gens. We call that skill issue or abusing a poorly designed game system. What makes this "strategy" so disgusting is that it entirely relies on survivors being altruistic.
there is no optimal use of camping and so called tunneling at 5 gens?
I will give you the best possible example for optimal camping use, and that is managing to get a basement hook on Rotten Fields so that you can basically camp both the hook and 3-gen around the shack. You are abusing the mistake made by survs to give you a down close to shack.
In case of tunneling, only optimal use of tunneling is literally early tunneling (tunneling at 5 gens is only result of either team not doing gens at all during first chase or the chased survivors lasting <20s in chase. Accusing killer of a skill issue in those cases is just a coping mechanism for fact that survivors played terrible and killer took advantage of it.
So, with all the tools you need to counter every single killer strategy, losing to any of those, especially tunneling and camping is mistake of your team that doesn't know how to use provided tools at all.
And here you go with the exact argument I was talking about. Countering bad playstyle shouldn't be mandatory to learn to play a game normal yet casual. You shift the responsibility off of the killer or the game and basically blame the survivor for not being good enough.
what is a casual player anymore? Is it a player that doesn't care about winning OR a player that wants to win so bad, can't bother with learning how to play the game and wants the game to provide all the tools for an easy win. Okay then, let's give killers basekit Corrupt, BBQ and Pop, destroy any kind of bully strategy on surv side just so that "casual" killer players don't have to worry about early gen splitting, survivors stealthing, saves of all kinds and hooks constantly being saboed because that exactly is your logic. You want exactly every strategy to be borderline impossible to do (with current tools, tunneling and camping are borderly impossible unless you make series of chain mistakes).
It is contributing to the fact that the playerbase has halfed in just under a year (Juli 2024 - 100k players vs today 52k players)
you are taking numbers completely out of context and are not reading graphs at all. First of all, July of 2024. was when 2v8 was introduced and Lara Croft was also released and that's the reason why game had sudden jump in terms of playerbase + game was literally also averaging 50-60k players ON STEAM ONLY before that. So, your conclusion is a pure logical fallacy.
Accept the fact that most people want to play this game casually and don't want to spend a thousand hours learning how to counter bs strategies before they can casually play the game.
ohh, i wouldn't have anything about most people "wishing to play this game casually" if we were talking about literal casual players, which is not the case at all.
The term "casual player" has been weaponized way back since Fortnite emerged in a way where casual players are those who need op and broken stuff to obliterate their opponents in order to "have fun". They are the best definition of sweating players because they are covering up their absolute intention to win and only win by the fact that "opponent is sweaty" whenever opponent wins
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Blood gens are literally the worst thing to ever exist in dbd in terms of balance and they should never ever be implemented into ordinary matches
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@BirdiePlays said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3918289#Comment_3918289
Yes but at the same time there's killers who are skilled enough to not need gen regression perks, as in those who have insta-downs or are just amazing at the game (unlike myself when i play …any game). These days survivors kinda suck, swfs rely more on being toxic than doing generators, and that one solo queue survivor ends up getting the short end of the stick if these killers run full aura perks.
Also at the same time once the aura perk does its little timer animation you can add on the other one, say like BBQ triggers, then leathal adds on that extra 2 seconds. Then you go over to where you last saw that survivor and kick a gen for nowhere to hide, or open locker for darkness revealed.
there is no such thing as being skilled enougg so that you do not have to use gen regression/slowdown perks to win, there is just a gap between killer and survivors in terms of skill, mostly terrible survivor chase knowledge from survivor side.
Not to mention that almost every aura perk has proper basic gameplay counter.
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@smurf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3917712#Comment_3917712
I miss a time when online gaming was less toxic. There used to be large online competitive gaming communities where players would form their own lobbies and self-select who joined matches based on reputation.
Players who demonstrated they belonged in another skill-tier would be asked to join other lobbies, and booted if they refused. And while that sounds negative, it worked great. Players self-selected into something like nine skill tiers and refused to play with people who were overtly toxic. That led to more friendly gaming than we have in a lot of modern games where matchmaking is done for the players. And we practically never saw dramatic skill-mismatches.
I don't think that would work today though. People don't act like adults... even though we acted better when I was barely able to play games as a kid… Anyway, enough reminiscing... yes, backfilling with the wrong MMR is a problem :/
that still exists, but dbd community is well known for hating that kind of players even with the sheer fact they scrim and play tournaments in custom lobbies away from other players. This is done mostly because matchmaking in dbd doesn't offer you real chance to improve and get matched with people of similar skill.
And despite all of that, big part of "casual" community still hates those players. Why? I know but i'll leave you to think about why.
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@Atom7k said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3915516#Comment_3915516
Oh no, somebody wants less toxicity in a game, what a crime.
As I said soloq players don't have the tools to counter these kind of "strategies" because they cannot coordinate that well. You would need at least 2 players with good game sense and understanding of what to do to pull it off. And that is the problem. A lot of players are not so invested in one single game that they want to learn every single strategy against every toxic thing out there.
Yet average players and soloq players are the ones most affected by this nonsense. If you need to master a game to be able to play it normal, its not worth playing at allOh no, somebody wants less toxicity in a game, what a crime.
can you make difference between legit optimal use of specific strategy to put yourself into a grester strategical position and literally griefing yourself by camping a player that looped you too long or simply did a save/bodyblock for a teammate?
Because right now you are taking the term "toxicity" blatantly out of context and it's original meaning.
As I said soloq players don't have the tools to counter these kind of "strategies" because they cannot coordinate that well. You would need at least 2 players with good game sense and understanding of what to do to pull it off. And that is the problem. A lot of players are not so invested in one single game that they want to learn every single strategy against every toxic thing out there.
Yet average players and soloq players are the ones most affected by this nonsense. If you need to master a game to be able to play it normal, its not worth playing at all
first of all, majority of soloQ players are literally swarming the hook seconds after killer hooks their teammate + they also tend to farm their teammates.
The average camping killer you are facing has not so much gamesense to take advantage of camping a beneficial hook, meaning you can literally abuse their mistake easily, no matter if soloQ or not.
It's not game's problem that people massively refuse to learn counterplay to strats used by their opponents while blatantly acting like "skill issue" when their opponent fails to counter the strategy they are using
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@Jadelysta said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3916726#Comment_3916726
World of warcraft, Gears of war, and im pretty sure Valorant does too.
MMR in Valo and WoW is hidden, idk for GoW since i haven't played it.