NarkoTri1er
NarkoTri1er
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@MechWarrior3 said:
They recently fixed this bug twice. It broke….again. :(
they didn't actually even fix it at all, even though they mentioned it in patch notes
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@doobiedo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3879570#Comment_3879570
And risk devour? No. If it glows it goes is always the right decision unless you know for a fact exactly what the totems are which is rare. The fact that survivors are basically screwed at this point no matter what they do when it comes to totems is just another example of the game being killer sided.
you never get bored of it, do you? I would if i was at your place
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@Grigerbest said:
To me personally the state of the game is:
- Most Survivor players don't know what to do against any killer they're facing. They're still camping pallets against Nurse, they don't put any flamethrowers against Xeno, they have absolutely no idea who even Hag is, etc.
- Most Survivor players don't know how to loop, they don't check corners, sometimes they're blatantly ignoring pallets or tiles, running pass those, or changing direction into a dead zones.
- Being overly altruistic.
- They don't wait for the killer to leave the area after hooking a survivor. Rushing for the unhook as fast as they can, despite the killer right behind them.
- (Other way around) They don't unhook to "tunnel gen" a little longer to the point the hooked survivor reaching the second stage.
- They do ANYTHING, but gens.
- Giving up on hooks, or DC-ing.
- Blatantly expecting to face the killer they "like to play against", or expecting to face a "baby killer".
- They don't take chases\hooks for the team, despite being the only survivor who haven't been hooked yet or got any chases.
- They don't even try to play as a team.
I can go on for longer, but you got the point. When survivor players knows what game they're playing - killer will not be able to slug all 4, tunneling will only result in 1k.
And let's get 1 thing out of the way… End-game Mori has nothing to do with anything you mentioned.
Killers could've tunnel or slug even without this feature.
And let's get another thing out of the way - before anti-face camp mechanic and base-kit BT - it was numerous times worse. Let's not forget how the game used to be, and pretend like: "The game was better before". I keep seeing how people still mentioning how it was, despite the atrocious state of: "OP perks, OP loops, OP tactics" etc.
i would add 11th reason that pushed it's way through with Hex meta. And that's:
"if it glows it goes" mentality heavily pushed by content creators.
People are quite often making humongous mistakes by deciding to cleanse hex totems they find along the way while not even being aware of what perks are in play, just to end up cleansing Undying and giving killer their first and very strong Pentimento token, or simply wasting their own time they could spend working on a gen.
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@Roco45 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3879462#Comment_3879462
Surv perks keep getting nerfed. Maps are getting smaller, with more deadzones and less loops, yet every new Killer has some sort of strong anti-loop and hinderance while the last few Killers have outright insane map traversal powers despite the obtusely smaller maps. The dozens of aura perks that killers have now, for doing basically any action, completely ruins any hide and seek aspect which then leads into looping and how gutted that has become.
Gen spawns are also insane, literally gens being mere meters from each other on most maps so Killers can easily patrol a 3 gen, it's not as if that's because SoloQ is gen rushing every game lol
Tunneling/Slugging/Camping haven't been addressed in any meaningful way, which is entirely because of SWF as any buff to the Surv role in general, would buff SWF even more, which BHVR can't have.
It's very rare to see a Killer go for 12 hooks, they all slug/tunnel/camp because it's the most effective thing as it's one of the only ways to slow a SWF team so ofc it's going to decimate a SoloQ team; so Killers do it and then it carries over into SoloQ matches which then become a nightmare.
Also SWF do get exclusive perks, they get a a dozen perks without equipping them simple by communicating, let alone all the other types of information they get. Also, that stat about SWF isn't a gotcha, it literally is a point that backs me up; SWF kill rates are because the game has been balanced around them, which is again why SoloQ is a complete disgusting nightmare lol BHVR also doesn't release real stats for SoloQ, as most SoloQ matches are filled with DC's which don't count towards any stat.
So, as maps/killers/perks are rebalanced and you claim that SWF escape rates are 50%, would that not indicate that the game is being balanced around SWF? Is it really that big of a mystery as to why SoloQ is a nightmare and everyone is either DCing or "going next"?
Surv perks keep getting nerfed. Maps are getting smaller, with more deadzones and less loops, yet every new Killer has some sort of strong anti-loop and hinderance while the last few Killers have outright insane map traversal powers despite the obtusely smaller maps. The dozens of aura perks that killers have now, for doing basically any action, completely ruins any hide and seek aspect which then leads into looping and how gutted that has become.
can we stop with this agenda, please? It's really obvious that people doing it are only baiting or are intentionally refusing to read any kind of survivor buff in patch notes because of...that agenda. That's what you are doing now too.
Additionally, looping isn't gutted at all, average player just never knew how to loop anything besides M1 killers.
And in terms of aura reading perks on killer side, only truly red flags are Nowhere to Hide and Predator (especially due to their synergy with Nurse).
Gen spawns are also insane, literally gens being mere meters from each other on most maps so Killers can easily patrol a 3 gen, it's not as if that's because SoloQ is gen rushing every game lol
how many killers will you see actually patrolling a 3-gen? Like let's be fr. On top of that, gen spawns are more or less the same they used to be, while most times it's survivors locking themselves in a 3-gen.
Tunneling/Slugging/Camping haven't been addressed in any meaningful way, which is entirely because of SWF as any buff to the Surv role in general, would buff SWF even more, which BHVR can't have.
ohhh my dear, with the introduction of StB perk, there is absolutely no excuse for you to lose against a tunneling killer other than pure lack of skill.
Slugging has made it's way to meta because forcing hooks has gone down in terms of usefulness.
Camping? Let me think. None of teammates working gens against camping killer, none of teammates knowing when to trade hooks, or sometimes...you going next on hook :)
It's very rare to see a Killer go for 12 hooks, they all slug/tunnel/camp because it's the most effective thing as it's one of the only ways to slow a SWF team so ofc it's going to decimate a SoloQ team; so Killers do it and then it carries over into SoloQ matches which then become a nightmare.
why would killers go for 12 hooks? Because that paves the way for your easier win? Because they just handicap themselves that way? Why do you split gens early instead of deciding to not work on them for like...a minute or two? This is your logic btw. And let's be honest, none of these strategies would decimate a good soloQ team, unless we are talking about slugging with Knock Out.
Also SWF do get exclusive perks, they get a a dozen perks without equipping them simple by communicating, let alone all the other types of information they get. Also, that stat about SWF isn't a gotcha, it literally is a point that backs me up; SWF kill rates are because the game has been balanced around them, which is again why SoloQ is a complete disgusting nightmare lol BHVR also doesn't release real stats for SoloQ, as most SoloQ matches are filled with DC's which don't count towards any stat.
game isn't balanced around SWF only because they are strong, but also because they are much more reliable sample than soloQ. Why would BHVR balance their game over a corrupt sample where your teammates are allergic to gens, give up on first hook and play for whichever challenge it is instead of...just normally playing the game? Think about it.
So, as maps/killers/perks are rebalanced and you claim that SWF escape rates are 50%, would that not indicate that the game is being balanced around SWF? Is it really that big of a mystery as to why SoloQ is a nightmare and everyone is either DCing or "going next"?
wanna truly know why people are going next so easily? Because there is no punishment for giving up on hook. Because they are incapable of dealing with their burnout from playing this game too mich by actually taking a break from it, people don't wanna find another game to fill the void. That's the biggest reason, other things are usually just excuses for coping with it.
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@smurf said:
How can that be reportable? I think the only things that count as holding the game hostage are when you make it so the other side literally is unable to progress or end the game, like bodyblocking a survivor into a corner for extended periods. The killer can just find the survivors in this case.
Survivors don't have a mechanism to make the game unfinishable I think. I've had instances where I had to look for survivors, but I've never seen a case where they were able to hold the game hostage.
survivor version of holding the game hostage: refusing to touch gens and continually hiding in an attempt to either force the killer to go afk, DC or wait for server to crash. Those players know they won't win if server crashes, but ego forces them to waste as much of killer's time while effectively doing nothing to progress the match.
Additionally, i think OP is talking specifically about the case of survivors dropping and picking items up as a way to bypass crows and killer getting alert of their location.
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NOED is a perk that is used by skilled killers and bad killers at the same time, each for the different purposes and as a result of totally different opponent skill.
Bad killers will rely on NOED as a crutch for 4K because average team lacks skill for playing around unhooking when NOED is in game.
Good killers use NOED as a way to have some endgame pressure due to haste and a way to potentionally secure that one kill. That's why you will see it in tournaments quite some times on weaker killers, because it will matter to final hooks outcome.
Bad killers use NOED for 4k, bad survivors use NOED as an excuse for losing a match.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3879034#Comment_3879034
Because you should never cleanse vs her. It makes no sense to do so, except at the very end when you've already won. It's a like healing over and over again vs Legion, which everybody does for some reason.
really depends. Usually you should let people on death hook cleanse against her, with an exception of having them do it at the fountain furthest from 3-gen so that you force her to actually get inside a gen deadzone so that she could get corrupt purge
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3879273#Comment_3879273
Saying that players wanted this matchmaking is a total copout. It's irresponsible at best to deliver a broken system because "that's what the users wanted". No player wanted broken matchmaking. If you ask someone whether they want to wait in line or not, they're always going to say they'd rather not wait in line. They're not going to think of the implications. You shouldn't be asking them in the first place. Deliver a system that works. Bidirectional matchmaking was the way to go.
Solo queue is absolutely not a team based game as currently constructed. You can't have it both ways. You can't require teamwork for the role to succeed and then not have any way to see teammates' perks, or a way to communicate in-game, all while matching players across widely different skill levels. It doesn't work like that. Telepathy as balance has never worked in DbD.
Saying that players wanted this matchmaking is a total copout. It's irresponsible at best to deliver a broken system because "that's what the users wanted". No player wanted broken matchmaking. If you ask someone whether they want to wait in line or not, they're always going to say they'd rather not wait in line. They're not going to think of the implications. You shouldn't be asking them in the first place. Deliver a system that works. Bidirectional matchmaking was the way to go.
people are literally acting like matchmaking has no place in dbd even to this day, and most of them live in an illusion that current matchmaking actually places them against "good and sweaty players" when it's literally just putting them with average players.
Solo queue is absolutely not a team based game as currently constructed. You can't have it both ways. You can't require teamwork for the role to succeed and then not have any way to see teammates' perks, or a way to communicate in-game, all while matching players across widely different skill levels. It doesn't work like that. Telepathy as balance has never worked in DbD.
with teammates giving up on hook and forcing an early 3v1 being one of the biggest factors why you lose soloQ games, it's not about how soloQ is constructed, it's about mentality of people playing it :)
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@[Deleted User] said:
If you view this primarily as a PVP game, then yes, solo queue is obviously in an unacceptable state right now. You lose ~60-70% of your games by design, and only half of those games will involve actual gameplay. The other half will be over before you've even seen the killer, or you're slugged for the better part of the trial.
But I don't think the devs view the game through the same lens as the playerbase for the most part. Many of the things that frustrate players are features to the devs. It's why things have to essentially catch on fire before they're addressed. A former dev is on record as saying that being able to camp and tunnel is a feature of DbD. Let that sink in.
It's why so many design decisions baffle the playerbase. The playerbase thinks this is a PVP game. The devs think this is a survival horror game that they very reluctantly balance when the community is at each other's throats over one issue or another.
If you view this primarily as a PVP game, then yes, solo queue is obviously in an unacceptable state right now. You lose ~60-70% of your games by design, and only half of those games will involve actual gameplay. The other half will be over before you've even seen the killer, or you're slugged for the better part of the trial.
the only truly big design faults that are affecting soloQ right now are the fact that kobes still exist, nonexistent matchmaking (reminder that players wanted this) and challenges in their current state.
Other than that, most of the times you actually lose your soloQ matches it will be teammates griefing and simply refusing to improve at the game.
In least cases, it's actually your opponent. Same goes for killers.
But I don't think the devs view the game through the same lens as the playerbase for the most part. Many of the things that frustrate players are features to the devs. It's why things have to essentially catch on fire before they're addressed. A former dev is on record as saying that being able to camp and tunnel is a feature of DbD. Let that sink in.
ofc camping and tunneling is feature of dbd, same as early splitting gens and bodyblocking for teammates with a full anti-tunneling build.
It's why so many design decisions baffle the playerbase. The playerbase thinks this is a PVP game. The devs think this is a survival horror game that they very reluctantly balance when the community is at each other's throats over one issue or another.
BHVR has switched their focus from "free for all" to actual team based game so long ago, that's why survivor gameplay nowadays relies much more on teamwork than it ever used to before.
Players are the one that are actually still trapped in a delusion that they are still playing the game independently for themselves.
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judging from my personal experience, state of the soliQ is like this:
my team wanders around the map cleansing dull totems and opening chests while i loop the killer, killer drops chase so they can go for the rest of team, they fall down like flies, they go next on hook.
All in all, i get slugged for pressure maybe once in 5 matches and bled out once in 20 matches.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3877373#Comment_3877373
I know it’s part of a killer’s mantra to blame survivors for every failed game mechanic that unravels them but as a survivor main?
Survivors incompetence, overbloated killer buffs, aggressive killer playstyles, and survivor nerfs are the main reasons solo queue is unplayable. Stealthy survivors are the least of any other survivor’s concern.
No survivor ends a match thinking, “man if only that Dwight wasn’t hiding I wouldn’t have been tunneled/slugged/camped out of the match on Haddonfield. I would have won if only they’d been doing gens while the killer relentlessly pursued me across this shoebox of a map.”
Talk to survivor mains for a change instead of regurgitating trite killer talking points.this is literally avoiding to see responsibility of you and your team for killer winning and acting like balance is the very big reason why your experience is so bad. Let's mot pretend that giving up prematurely, playing for whatever challenge while ignoring your main objectives and continuous refusal of average player to learn from their own mistakes are not the biggest reasons why survivor role sucks so much.
Talk to survivor mains for a change instead of regurgitating trite killer talking points.
there is no point in talking to "casual" players from any of the two roles in this game, since those players have not reached the skill level to actually be competent enough to actually talk about balance.
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@TonTon said:
Survivor gameplay needs to drastically change from Generators, Pallets, Vaults, flashlights, toolboxes, medkits everything needs to change it's been 10 years and gameplay has been the same stale old thing.
Devs gain some courage and make more changes
judging by the playerbase and the fact that killers that have some side objectives for survivors implemented into their power are ones with the highest killrate, i think average player just begs for the same gameplay loop
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@Musxussu575 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3879053#Comment_3879053
what's the problem with the new version of perk then? Why is everyone complaining about gate opening speed being 12.5% instead of 50% for the last survivor alive? Perk was reworked to be more of a team perk and it's...bad because of that?
Bro, how are you not getting this? Wake Up was already an unproblematic perk, and a decent enough team perk and therefore this rework was completely unnecessary. It didn't need to be touched. At all. Simple. Just don't touch it. Why would I be ok with 12.5% increments when I can have a flat 50%? And why would I want the effectiveness on my perk to be contingent on, and fluctuate with, the number of people still alive - especially in the era of tunneling? How is that logical? Give me a universal-utility perk over a niche one. How is that wrong?
leave the perks alone? Okay, i'm going to stop vouching for Knock Out and Pentimento tweak too, let's support those two perk in their current state too!
Well considering there's nothing wrong with either of those two perks, that is refreshing to hear. Pentimento is easily dealt with and nobody runs Knock Out (kind of like Wake Up, hmm…). Neither one has an outlandish, extravagant effect on gameplay. You'll live. Stop bothering things that aren't issues.
Wake Up is Sole Survivor 2.0 and is usually used in combo with that perk. The fact that you are trying to defend it so hard while it's actually a perk that is about the team says everything.
Which is it - a team perk or a "selfish" perk? You can't have it both ways. By the way, there's nothing inherently wrong with "selfish" builds, so long as people aren't actively letting others die. And I'm only "defending" the game mechanics from radical change agents like yourself. By the way, no one uses Sole Survivor, either. I can't remember the last time I saw it - as survivor or killer. Wake Up, Knock Out, Sole Survivor - why the hate for unused perks you rarely see?
Also, perks are NOT meant to serve as a direct counter toother perks, perks are meant to counter basic aspects of the game. And using Resilience as an example when it's a perk that gives 6% bonus on all action speeds when injured is wild.
With 200+ perks in the game you're going to eventually run into clashes. Inflicting Blindness with Hex: The Third Seal didn't matter until Windows of Opportunity became meta. Lightborn increased in utility with the advent of Blast Mine and Flash Bang. Survivors struggled with constant aura-reading by the killer until they decided to start using Distortion - which subsequently got butchered in typical fashion. At this point, direct counters are unavoidable. And that's ok. Live and let live. And using Resilience as an example was to showcase the absurdism in your arguments. r/whoosh.
you have just confirmed my argument, thank you.
🤣🤣🤣
Bro, how are you not getting this? Wake Up was already an unproblematic perk, and a decent enough team perk and therefore this rework was completely unnecessary. It didn't need to be touched. At all. Simple. Just don't touch it. Why would I be ok with 12.5% increments when I can have a flat 50%? And why would I want the effectiveness on my perk to be contingent on, and fluctuate with, the number of people still alive - especially in the era of tunneling? How is that logical? Give me a universal-utility perk over a niche one. How is that wrong?
what was so decent about it being a team perk? No SWF will ever run it because they know it serves them 0 use, and even with extremely low pickrate overall, even soloQ players mainly avoid using it.
And again, if you are so valiant im trying to present it as a team perk, why are you complaining about a literal buff from previous live version? Things don't add up to your argument at all.
Well considering there's nothing wrong with either of those two perks, that is refreshing to hear. Pentimento is easily dealt with and nobody runs Knock Out (kind of like Wake Up, hmm…). Neither one has an outlandish, extravagant effect on gameplay. You'll live. Stop bothering things that aren't issues.
nothing wrong with Knock Out? Nothing wrong with Penti? They are literally also the pinnacle of unhealthy perks in this game, especially Knock Out, which may be useless in SWF where teammates can give their location to the team, while in soloQ you can't do that.
Which is it - a team perk or a "selfish" perk? You can't have it both ways. By the way, there's nothing inherently wrong with "selfish" builds, so long as people aren't actively letting others die. And I'm only "defending" the game mechanics from radical change agents like yourself. By the way, no one uses Sole Survivor, either. I can't remember the last time I saw it - as survivor or killer. Wake Up, Knock Out, Sole Survivor - why the hate for unused perks you rarely see?
selfish builds serve absolutely no benefit for your team, every other kind of perk has some direct or indirect benefit for team.
And what does pickrate have to do with the perk's health?
With 200+ perks in the game you're going to eventually run into clashes. Inflicting Blindness with Hex: The Third Seal didn't matter until Windows of Opportunity became meta. Lightborn increased in utility with the advent of Blast Mine and Flash Bang. Survivors struggled with constant aura-reading by the killer until they decided to start using Distortion - which subsequently got butchered in typical fashion. At this point, direct counters are unavoidable. And that's ok. Live and let live. And using Resilience as an example was to showcase the absurdism in your arguments. r/whoosh.
Hex: The Third Seal was never even close to meta, and WoO is not meta either, it's just a training wheel perk used more as a crutch where ppl avoid learning maps.
Lightborn isn't meta, but people started using it more due to frustration with Flashbang audio bug.
And your attempt to find absurdity of my arguments was…more than terrible.
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Plague, Singularity and Sadako are priceless ones in this role
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@Musxussu575 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3878787#Comment_3878787
Faster speed has no use when teammates are alive? The perk literally reveals your aura to everyone else across the entire map. The developers specifically designed it to be helpful for the entire team. Where does this cynical argument even come from?
This perk does not instill an "unhealthy mindset" where people want others to die so they can escape solo. This perk was not designed for the 'last man standing' (again, the 128m aura).
The perk's change is not "positive" because it slaps on an unnecessary prerequisite/caveat for it to even work now. The perk also never encouraged bad behavior (and even if it did, again, 1% of the community used it anyways, boohoo) - you can reference neither personal experience nor seeing video proof online.
"Sole Survivor and Left Behind should be the next perks to receive the similar treatment." It sounds more and more like you are of the mindset that, "If I and everyone else dies, then the last survivor should die too! No escapes!" And you're here pushing the blame on the "average survivor player". Maybe you're the epitome. Just leave perks alone, it's not that hard.
Wake Up does not encourage toxicity. There was nothing wrong with Wake Up's effects. It is not a self-centered perk (did I mention the aura?). There are over 100 survivor perks in the game. It's ok if one of those lets you open gates faster. Why not just consider it a counter to Remember Me, etal.? You'd better butcher Leader too if you're worried about that. And don't forget about Spine Chill and Resilience! We wouldn't want people opening gates 6% faster, right?
The 1% of players who run Wake Up are not ruining the DBD experience for you. You've never even seen it happen, so why argue this at all?
Faster speed has no use when teammates are alive? The perk literally reveals your aura to everyone else across the entire map. The developers specifically designed it to be helpful for the entire team. Where does this cynical argument even come from?
what's the problem with the new version of perk then? Why is everyone complaining about gate opening speed being 12.5% instead of 50% for the last survivor alive? Perk was reworked to be more of a team perk and it's...bad because of that?
This perk does not instill an "unhealthy mindset" where people want others to die so they can escape solo. This perk was not designed for the 'last man standing' (again, the 128m aura).
again, why are people complaining about gate opening speed bonus for the last survivor when it's even better than live version when more than 2 survivors are alive?
The perk's change is not "positive" because it slaps on an unnecessary prerequisite/caveat for it to even work now. The perk also never encouraged bad behavior (and even if it did, again, 1% of the community used it anyways, boohoo) - you can reference neither personal experience nor seeing video proof online.
you have just confirmed my argument, thank you.
"Sole Survivor and Left Behind should be the next perks to receive the similar treatment." It sounds more and more like you are of the mindset that, "If I and everyone else dies, then the last survivor should die too! No escapes!" And you're here pushing the blame on the "average survivor player". Maybe you're the epitome. Just leave perks alone, it's not that hard.
leave the perks alone? Okay, i'm going to stop vouching for Knock Out and Pentimento tweak too, let's support those two perk in their current state too!
Wake Up does not encourage toxicity. There was nothing wrong with Wake Up's effects. It is not a self-centered perk (did I mention the aura?). There are over 100 survivor perks in the game. It's ok if one of those lets you open gates faster. Why not just consider it a counter to Remember Me, etal.? You'd better butcher Leader too if you're worried about that. And don't forget about Spine Chill and Resilience! We wouldn't want people opening gates 6% faster, right?
Wake Up is Sole Survivor 2.0 and is usually used in combo with that perk. The fact that you are trying to defend it so hard while it's actually a perk that is about the team says everything.
Also, perks are NOT meant to serve as a direct counter toother perks, perks are meant to counter basic aspects of the game. And using Resilience as an example when it's a perk that gives 6% bonus on all action speeds when injured is wild.
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it could be their internet, or just the fact that they were forced onto another server
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@R3b3l54TTV said:
So they can record it without interference for the personal library when they need an ego boost during the middle of work
or, maybe people just want a aesthetically pleasing mori without any obstacles, not everything is about ego boost yk
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@Musxussu575 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3877169#Comment_3877169
How many times have you seen that happen, though? My guess is a big, fat "0". Because no one picks it. Because it's a lackluster perk. Y'all keep assuming the worst even when there's no evidence of it, and allow that narrative to destroy stuff that isn't bothering anybody. Having faster gate-opening speed does not directly translate to, "Erm, just let my team die!" It's legitimately the opposite - let me open this quicker so that my teammates can escape!
If I wanted to let my team die to escape, I'd run Sole Survivor, Low Profile, and Left Behind.
Stop demonizing things that don't exist.
faster gate opening speeds are concept that has absolutely no use when teammates are alive, gives absolutely no direct or indirect benefit to the team and is mostly used as your instant go-to way to just prepare for the worst, meaning you are already having a mindset that you will be the last person alive on the trial.
This is not demonizing, this is just objective view of a very flawed and unhealthy perk concept that mostly encourages very bad player mindset and so unhealthy playstyles. Sole Survivor and Left Behind should be the next perks to receive the similar treatment.
On top of everything, it's very concerning to see so many people complain about a perk tweak that is literally a positive change that discourages bad teammate behavior. In fact, it actually reveals the big truth about average survivor player of dbd and re asons behind their and their team losing.
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i don't want to see something like killer being able to go next without punishments, i would rather want to see kobes removed to further discourage giving up and actually start punishing it
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@Icaurs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3878137#Comment_3878137
Well hold on a minute, let's be specific.
I disagree that survivor Is a team based game, but you disagree. Well what are the rules?
If you are hooked and the exit gate is open, do I have to save you? I say no, you say yes right? Well what if they are camping? Or trapper or leatherface? NOED.
What are the rules and where can I find them?
so you hardcore twisted my argument where i was talking about people refusing to do their objectives whole match with...endgame camping and decision of teammate to help or not depending on situation? Wow
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@Icaurs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3878050#Comment_3878050
Yeah... that would be a false report which is bannable. Playing way you don't like is not griefing.
playing the way...i don't like? You want to tell me that refusing to do your objectives is simply playing the way just i don't like? Sorry, but with this mentality you should either stick to singleplayers.
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3877937#Comment_3877937
1: So by your words, slugging is indeed a problem with the game if you feel it is 'forced.' Everyone knows the purpose of hooks and if the game says 'hooking will screw you more than not', thats a problem. HUGE problem, and BHVR needs to really look at this.
2: But it is useless. And doesn't do that. If you mean it keeps the killer from walking across the entire map to basement, then I'm done here.
3: Improve the experience? Of.. getting camped? The experience isnt something that can really be improved lol. Camping shouldn't be axed, but man what an experience lol.
4: Yup. I think the community will always agree with cheating being abhorrent.
5: There's plenty of things they can do. OP literally listed one.
Nothing flaming you here, Narko. I just felt you casually slung up some words without much thought compared to your usual, robust posts. OP has points.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3877947#Comment_3877947
Yes, you are a ttv so you have no right to complain. (not really) Come on, Griger…
Its easy for someone to dismiss things when they aren't affected in the slightest. Pay no attention to these types. It will offer nothing, or in some cases, less than nothing.
1: Agreed.
2: Correct. Or body block. Or breakout. I believe the wiggle only works when other survivors play as a team. Its good deisign imo. Its non-existant in solo'q.
3: Is it working as intended? As always, this is subject to perspective: Killers will defend it since they are basically unaffected by its implementation, and survivors will complain because it doesn't really affect anything. Its the same playbook.
4: Yup, cheaters need to go. Community agrees!
5: (Poorly and somewhat bigotted. It should be disregarded honestly.)
There's a lot dbd could do to make things friendlier to any and everyone, they simply wont do it. There's lists on the forums with QoL things for both sides that just get lost in pages of complaints about the game. Which I think is funny. I've not had any other game who's forums are mostly complaints. Just my experience though. Im sure there are some lol.
- slugging is a problem forced by another problem yeah. And it will remain problem as long as that other problem remains too.
- no, basement was not my thought, my thought was denying hook inside killer's interest zone (usually 3-gen). This is why you'll see good survivors directing the chase as far away from that zone and then forcing a down and a hook in a zone completely away from killer's interest zone. Wiggle mechanic is there to prevent killer from doing this in such circumstances aka. it also has a bit of...skill aspect into it.
- it is working against toxic intention of camping, BHVR wanted to punish it while not really willing to punish camping as a legit strategy.
I'm not really slamming up words, it's just that everybody has different experiences, for example i spend 10s on the ground between down and hook on average, which is nothing really bad for me. In my matches, it seems like average killer player...kinda avoids playing in the way average survivor hates.
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@Icaurs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3877942#Comment_3877942
By that logic, ending yourself on hook should be bannable… which it isn't.
because devs officially said that they technically can't determine when kobe was used in an "go next" manner and when not. Solution: remove kobe, unless you have dedicated perks.
@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3877942#Comment_3877942
This is a lie. Please don’t spread false information.
do a full record of a match where somebody does it, file a report to BHVR and see report feedback and action taken for griefing.
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@Icaurs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3877832#Comment_3877832
I honestly wonder if we're playing the same game.
Solo Q isn't struggling because people are all waiting for exit gates to use wake up. They are struggling because their teammates can't last 10 seconds in a chase. I don't know how to fix that but nerfing wake up won't fix it.
It's usually the most meta of survivors that are making matches unwinnable because they have no understanding of how to play the game and just know, the perks are strong.
So what if I'm playing for myself, show me where the rules of the game. should we report players who leave a teammate behind to save themselves? I play for myself and if another survivor does as well that's fine. Not this vague sort of, kind of rules but not really.
ignoring rest of the match and just preparing yourself for escape is considered griefing and is bannable
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1. bleeding out is problem, slugging in general is forced by various changes to mechanic and perks related to hooking, as well as new perks implemented. Hooking is more of a punishment than reward.
2. Wiggle has it's use, and that use is to prevent killer from placing you on a hook in very strategical spot.
3. Anti-facecamp meter is meant to improve experience against those killers that just stand next to hook, look into your eyes and eventually hit you, it has nothing to do with camping in general.
4. Agree, game is swarming with cheaters atm, people are even openly selling cheats and BHVR does nothing about it. However, enjoy new skins i guess!
5. Not much can be done about stream sniping from BHVR perspective, there are ways to handle it individually. Anon mode needs to go tbh
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@AetherBytes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3877274#Comment_3877274
What sucks is people like me, who use the build, but only because we don't need chase or gen perks and want protection in the case the team fails despite our best efforts.
so...now we suddenly don't need any but endgame perks to escape? Lovely how dbd community contradicts themselves at every step
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@ratcoffee said:
I've been saying for years that this perk is way too strong, and its pick and escape rates go to show
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/85DV81ZPIOGZ/image.png
Truly a deserved change
for the who knows which time, pickrate of perks isn't only thing that determines if they need changes or not. On top of all, Wake Up is part of Nightmare on Elm Street chapter, which was basically struck by balance changes as a whole.
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it was buffed in a way that nobody even notices the buff it received
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
When has 'rat' ever been a problem that needed immediate fixing? It hasn't. Its never been a rampant issue. Its literally just the talking point to get things nerfed. Its all it ever has been. When asked for proof of this being an issue, its never given.
i think they went for it's the change right now because they are basically reworking Freddy, so why not entire chapter QoL changes overall
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@angel_pellegrino said:
Having played a good amount of killer and survivor has left me with a mixed feelings about camping and tunneling, especially later in the game. (I'm not a big fan of tunneling somebody out at five gens and it's not something I myself do)
As killer, I must admit that the constant tbags take their toll after a while. Especially when survivors hang out at the exit gates just to get that last tbag in. Although some killers might not admit it, that final tbag at the exit gate after a curb stomp really is the origin story for a lot of them. That or some spicy survivor complaints in the endgame chat. At some point I think it becomes an ego thing. It becomes a not wanting to be embarrassed thing. It becomes an I don't care about their enjoyment because they obviously don't care about mine thing.
As survivor, I find being tunneled out of the game at five gens to be so frustrating that I find myself not wanting to play survivor as much anymore. My last game tonight on chaos shuffle was against a dredge who tunneled me right out of the match before I could hardly even play it. Yes, I know some people will say skill issue. And they are correct. I do not have the skill ceiling to fend off a hard tunneling Dredge in soloq with teammates who have no intention of taking protection hits.
in Chaos Shuffle you literally don't have tools to deal with survivor splitting gens in early game (survivor version of tunneling btw, and is the most optimal survivor play), so why saying skill issue to people tunneling on already very weak killers?
Also, dbd community is very wrong when they call such thing as "tunneling at 5 gens" (impossible against any soloQ team that decides to do their objective and lasts more than 20s in chase) toxic, but they justify tunneling cuz of tbags. You are technically using toxic version of tunneling when you do this, and that version will just lose you the match, eventually killing only that one survivor (who managed to do their job in taunting you so well that their team won)
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@Musxussu575 said:
It's the usual "destroy perks that no one uses for no reason" schtick we are accustomed to. Wake Up has a 1.1% pick rate and they're worried about its impact? Why? Why not leave well enough alone? It's not broken. Don't mess with things that are fine. It's not wrong to open an exit gate 50% faster. How is it greedy, anyways? If the gates are powered, all survivors can win. They're acting like its the same as someone waiting for everyone else to die so they can grab hatch. Stop messing with things that don't need change.
nobody cares about it's pickrate, it's always a good decision to nuke perks that promote unsportsmanlike kind of gameplay, and this perk has no practical use other than letting your team die to get gate escape.
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answer is simple. The most effective kind of survivor gameplay is to split gens, and very often there are no gen regression perks and Corrupt to intervene in that, especially Corrupt which is supposed to reduce searching zone for 1st chase and make it more difficult to split gens.
On the other hand, the most effective way to win as killer is to hard tunnel 1st person asap because early 3v1 is what you need the most, if you even manage to get first hook fast.
Early splitting gens is literally survivor counterpart to tunneling, let's not try to make another post about "killers tunneling during events" pls, it's boring to read
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first, we need to differentiate genrushing from "genrushing".
Genrushing is when team dedicates their builds to completing gens asap and tries to be completely stealthy all match.
Your average match has nothing to do with it at all. Your average lost match quite likely consists of avoiding using Corrupt Intervention, having a bad first chase and later applying terrible map pressure. You are the one letting survivors be free to split pressure on gens highly effective.
Bodyblocking? What's toxic about that either? The fact that teammates are tanking hits for their other teammates to waste more of your time (which is literally 2nd main goal of survivors)?
P.S. It's a PvP game, ofc people will sweat.
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usually only when killer wants a 4k, otherwise rarely
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@MamiEmeritus said:
I refuse to play events now. chaos shuffle is just a bunch if killers playing like a million dollars is on the line. they all slug because they don't have their crutch perks. its annoying as hell.
any other event they just play to be toxic and make it un-fun for everyone,
tell me you play one side and don't know how the experience for the other side is before telling me so
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@ReverseVelocity said:
Some of these are wild… The Singularity one is literally just "omg i can't believe they'd STOP in chase to USE THEIR POWER 🙄 what tryhards"
DBD players will hate over half the roster and still say they like this game.
mine was truly for goof purposes too, makes me giggle a bit (especially the Oni one since i am often the one that does that lol)
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Oni: attempting to look like a hotshot when becoming friendly with survs and missing the most obvious 180 while 2 of them are healing in the most open space possible.
Myers: dude, Scratched Mirror Myers is so passe, stop trying to jumpscare me for content, it won't work, you are a snooze fest anyway
Wraith: allergic to chases
Knight: i get it bro, you can't down me without your guard zoning the hell out of me.
Trapper: when on a pallet, try to actually place a trap well instead of placing it so that i can go past it and you just end up stepping into it.
Nemesis: M1 exists mate, why are you trying to point blank whip me.
Doctor: omg an impossible skillcheck.build, how original.
Blight: alr i get it, your life depends on the win.
Huntress: darling, your hatchet is stuck in your hand, maybe actually drop a chase instead of trying to zone the hell out of me.
Pyramidhead: never hits M2, only fakes it until you are completely zoned
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@GlamourousLeviathan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3873996#Comment_3873996
The thing is that survivors are overly reliant on their perks because BHVR has pampered that much. In every event mode, you can see that the moment they take WOO away, they start to get lost around the map, which makes chases much easier. Also, whenever they get unhooked, they don't know what to do, since they are used to expecting god mode from OTR and DS, and they forget to use their basekit BT, which is quite strong.
Killer perks on the other side are all thrash nowadays, so on a normal game, you are already kinda used to play with basically no build whatsoever. To be honest, this makes Chaos Shuffle kinda neat, because whenever I get value out of a killer perk, I go like "oh, that's cool". This mode has been feeding me Alien Instinct basically every game and when it works I kinda appreciate it.
yes, average survivor player is very reliant on perks like WoO because they use it way too often no matter if they play soloQ or SwF and they basically start crutching on it.
As a role, survivors are kinda reliant on anti-tunneling perks since successfully forcing a 3v1 is the strongest aspect of killer gameplay.
On the other hand, killer role is basically reliant on 1-2 slowdowns, with Corrupt Intervention as a basic necessity in order to prevent highly effective early game gen splitting.
So, both sides are technically handicapped here, but their handicaps are masked by lack of macro knowledge of players on both sides.
@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3873996#Comment_3873996
Sounds to be like people aren't running up against "gen rush" toolbox squads all the time. Seems like that would be rampant with all the complaining we usually hear on this forum.
And it should be especially bad, since killers can't choose to bring the "necessary" quad slowdown perks. But no one is having that problem.
Interesting.
Maybe because that isn't happening, and survivors aren't actually playing that sweaty as often as people claim.
Maybe "gen rushing" isn't base kit, no matter what people claim, and requires a full loadout, items, and coordination to even consider trying it.
Maybe killers don't actually need quad slowdown to win.
Maybe survivors do actually need the bare minimum perk answers to these base kit killer "strategies" to even be able to have some fun occasionally while losing the game.
Maybe some of those specifics should be altered in a game mode that doesn't allow people to choose their perks.
you don't need to bring quad slowdowns to be able to win often against average teams, yes. You usually need ~2 slowdowns in combo with perks like Corrupt to also cover your early game/first chase, which is the most crucialpart of killer gameplay.
Maybe killers don't actually need quad slowdown to win.
Maybe survivors do actually need the bare minimum perk answers to these base kit killer "strategies" to even be able to have some fun occasionally while losing the game.
Maybe some of those specifics should be altered in a game mode that doesn't allow people to choose their perks.
as i already mentioned, thanks to lack of macro knowledge of average players, you don't need to force yourself to the absolute max in terms of builds to win. However, thanks to current Chaos Shuffle not featuring randomized items/addons and disabled map offerings, people are burning map offerings + bringing strongest items/addons into the game because they wanna make up for randomized perks, and that's actually really cringe on both sides.
I had survivors force me into maps while using 2+ Syringes.
I had killers forcing me into maps while bringing strongest addons of those killers. It's a neverending circle
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killers are forced to slug, so let's punish them more for slugging anyways? Lol
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- Chaos Shuffle is meant to be a challenge modifier that makes you rely more on your macro knowledge than actual perks (with items/addons not yet randomized + map offerings still being possible to burn, this is not the case)
- Why are we turning this into yet another us vs. them stuff? This clearly says you play one role 90%+ of the time and completely ignore sweatiness of other side.
Both sides are equally sweaty, once you truly start playing both roles at ~50/50 ratio, you will understand.
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@Orvarihusklumpen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3872100#Comment_3872100
Every single iteration of Chaos shuffle has been like this on both sides, sweaty that is. Killers get access to free tunneling since there is very little chance for a survivor of getting an anti-tunnel perk in Chaos Shuffle, killers also can get free slugs because it's Chaos Shuffle and Survivors bring toolboxes to rush out gens.
i think it's definitely more about killers being able to force 3v1 faster than usual, while survivors are able to split gens immediately with ease due to Corrupt rarely being the perk you'll get, tho we can say they can rush gens easier. Not to mention medkits with Syringes too.
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
survivors are also skipping mechanics tbh, and the best example for that is aggressive use of perks that are meant to be used defensively when killer isn't really primarily doing what those perks are meant to protect from aka. anti-tunneling and anti-camping perks (which is the strongest and most optimal use of those perks actually.
I did not say all that to once again go to the 'but survivors!' us vs them. I was merely stating why I think killers are going away from hooks: its not worth it. I really don't understand why that was the first thing you felt needed to be said, but I'll try to further choose my words better. Apologies.
However, if thats the best example, then I feel quite confident in my position: its not even comparable. Aggressive use of perks can be meant for all kinds of things. But what it doesn't do is take away you player agency to do anything at all. Stuns from pallets and trapped gens are the best you get with being unable to do anything at all.
@anyone else
If you are going to clamor behind 'being slugged is better than being hooked for your agency.' then again, I feel great knowing that's the best counter that's been given, aside from hooks not being worth it.
Crawling on the ground due to another players choice is terrible by design because humans. This is what I want BHVR to fix. And that means making hooks worthwhile. And like @NarkoTri1er said, '…this will remain problem for quite, quite a long time.'
sorry, i didn't mean for it to sound like us vs. them, i just wanted to point out how the game is nowadays basically revolving around both sides technically skipping mechanics because BHVR is doing terrible job at actually trying to balance the game out against healthy aspects.
I haven't even seen them actually releasing a proper change to deal with problems in the game. Two of recent changes that are also nothing but bandaids too were also hook respawns and +10s to hook timers.
Point of hook respawns was to what? Reduce the slugging problem? But it also removed strategical aspect of hooking while BHVR further buffed e.g. sabo strats (which are extremely healthy for the game) in response to that. They simply aren't playtesting this game nowhere near properly.
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
I disagree. Killers are skipping mechanics because BHVR made bad mechanics. Its efficient to play in a boring and time wasting method, but thats how BHVR has set things up.
I no longer get mad at the slugging. Its become the norm and I just go next. But basekit UB isnt the answer. Its a used bandaid at best.
survivors are also skipping mechanics tbh, and the best example for that is aggressive use of perks that are meant to be used defensively when killer isn't really primarily doing what those perks are meant to protect from aka. anti-tunneling and anti-camping perks (which is the strongest and most optimal use of those perks actually.
But you are very much right about basekit UB being nothing but a lame bandaid for slugging for example, ot would just strenghten the aggressive use of it than actually deal with the problem.
BHVR just isn't good at dealing with core problems of the game and they keep releasing bandaids due to pressure of players that aren't competent either, and imho this will remain problem for quite, quite a long time.
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- i would all agree on additional objectives, but it seems like average player in dbd mostly wants to sit on a gen, hold M1 and then leave (you can also see this when hex perks are in play, people always dislike them (even when there isn't Penti).
- BHVR is planning to add BP gains into custom matches to encourage scrims and tournaments more (probably due to them not being able to implement ranked yet)
- Absolutely agree.
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i also wish they randomized items/addons too and completely removed map offerings from this modifier, at this moment people are just bringing strongest items, addons and map offerings almost every match just to make up for not reliably having perks they want to have
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@iloveandhatethisgame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3873409#Comment_3873409
I agree. It’s just funny seeing the same killer mains in this thread overrate niche survivor perks and then use “good survivors” as justification. He explained why overcome sucked and that applies to dramaturgy as well
so even if people who actually main survivor and know very well how to use perk say that perk is strong, you would dump a "killer main" tag onto their face simply because you don't eventually know how to use it well?
Although, this perk is not that difficult to be used at all because it's basically old DH (i thought yall liked old DH?).
So many strong survivor perks are bottlenecked with average survivor skill. Does it mean they are bad as you'd think? Absolutely not.
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@LockerLurk said:
I kinda don't wanna see my number, I don't care how good I am at this game.
i don't want to see my MMR, i want ranked mode so that i can truly know i am grinding my skill by improving against players of close to my skill level :P
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@WolfePhD said:
I'm sorry if this video has already been posted on the forums, but I physically had to stop what I was working on so I could make this post. This is BIG news — and its unfortunately going to cost BHVR a lot of money.
A major YouTuber found out that MMR is revealed through privacy data requests. I wonder if BHVR will change their mind in reaction to this YouTube video and make the data public. A real person, on payroll, has to work through all of these. All I know is that someone that works at BHVR is going to have a very, very, very, very, very, very long day at work for the next few weeks in response to the wave. My heart goes out to them. <3
this is really suspicious so i'd rather just skip
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@StalkingYou said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3871719#Comment_3871719
sometimes i really do wonder why survivors try to twist literal facts into odd personal remarks about one's own skill
like, if someone says that slugging is the most efficient way to win, they'll get a response like yours, saying something completely off topic like "oh well if u can only win by slugging then youre just not good blah blah blah"
slugging is the most efficient way to win right now, its more efficient than hooking, and it has literally nothing to do with people's skill
also: "just spread pressure" is the new "just pressure gens" lololthis community has developed a well known coping mechanism where people don't wanna admit they made any mistakes in gameplay, but somehow it always has to be "sweaty" opponent and game balance. In this case, people try to insult skill of their opponent because they need a good coping mechanism to get over losing matches. Little do they know that this is one way ticket to never improving at the game.
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@DeBecker said:
You cant see what doesnt exist. Cause if it would exist, there is no excuse to not show it to the players themself.
there is big difference between MMR that is hidden from players in every multiplayer game that has it and rank that is visible