NarkoTri1er
NarkoTri1er
About
- Username
- NarkoTri1er
- Joined
- Visits
- 0
- Last Active
- —
Comments
-
@Hex_Ignored said:
Because of legion. He can easily keep the entire lobby injured so teammates like blight, wraith or spirit can quickly clean up all the injured survivors.
except for the fact that it...isn't really a problem. My teammates and me average on 6 escapes per match and balance isn't problem for survivor side at all, in fact it's still survivor sided.
The problem is that survivor role in 2v8 offers literally nothing new compared to 1v4 + addition of Legion just makes it a huge snooze fest because whole match ypu are playing against Legion never engaging a single chase.
-
idk how to feel about them yet because bots end up using them way before any human player manages to lol
-
hits me in frenzy.
leaves.
mending.
hits me in frenzy.
leaves.
mending.
I think this gameplay loop makes me sleepy
-
@Moonras2 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3884220#Comment_3884220
When I started survivors had a lot more resources, maps were larger, 2 pallets could spawn on one tile, and a survivor could greed loops into a vacuum pull to avoid hits. Dead hard was still used for distance, ds had no requirement, even when changed to needing wiggle progress it was still stronger, and was more chase oriented than anti tunnel. Borrowed time worked on both survivors. Hatch could spawn earlier and keys could get everyone out.
No egc existed, all perks still worked at the end. BNPs were instagen, etc…
Killers had their own things as well that were stronger then but I remember loading into matches with only 2-3 survivors and still winning games. That's not really possible now and honestly it shouldn't be like that.
I'm not saying these changes weren't needed but survivors had a lot going on back then.
majority of maps still have a lot of resources, DH is still very good, hatch was and is a generally unhealthy mechanic.
Yes, survs had a lot more going on in the very far past, but people were doomsday posting way less and were much better even when killers had most atrocious metas, like Eruption + CoB or CoB + Overcharge.
Mindset of players is very screwed up nowadays
-
@MaTtRoSiTy said:
Honestly, I just cant be bothered as I don't care that much, at nearly 6k hours in this game since Jan 2019 I have lost all motivation to spend hours of my time arguing about this game.
You can take it or leave it but BHVR really cannot afford to do this, as I suspect that while I large number of the weekend casuals are SWF's, the majority of the dedicated players are solo survivors and if solo queue remains this miserable and killer sided, they will just leave.
soloQ is "killer sided" for many reasons that have nothing to do with general game balance, some of those being:
- teammates giving up on hook when they don't like the killer they are facing;
- teammates giving up on hook overall;
- teammates being allergic to gens even when you are taking a chase way far from any generator they could work on;
- general lack of gamesense of teammates;
- teammates playing in very selfish ways;
- teammates playing for challenges rather than truly game objectives.
-
@MaTtRoSiTy said:
Nope. The game has never been more killer sided than it is now, it was way too survivor sided for years but they have pushed the balance far too far towards killers and it is making the game near unplayable for solo survivor.
???
Let me remind you that the so called "better state of survivor" was also the one when there wasn't basekit BT nor any kind of basekit second chances as a QoL improvement for survivors, yet average survivor was way better back in time and complaints were nowhere near the level of modern dbd.
Nowadays, you have very strong anti-tunneling, anti-slugging and anti-camping and couple of basekit mechanics to handle those, and yet, state of average survivor is the worst it's ever been.
This pretty much tells about rapid deterioration of skill amongst survivor players much rather than killers being "too powerful".
Before you wish to add any further, just give me a clear explanation on how is it possible that game is balanced "more against the survivor" over the time when there were literally so many of QoL features and ways to protect yourself against meta killer strats implemented compared to the times when state of survivor was considered way better, while in fact meta killer strats were much easier to practise.
-
@Linkdouken said:
Seems like a lot of people are unhappy about Legion in 2v8. Perhaps Behaviour should nerf them for this mode reverting back to their base Frenzy chaining and/or make it so that Legion cannot down with their power at all?
it's not about them being strong, it's about them being the most boring killer to go against.
almost nonexistent chases with hit & run gameplay + mending simulator, truly a snoozefest to play
-
@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3884150#Comment_3884150
run friend till the end+play with your food on ghostface with drop-leg stealth+philly. he's bottom 5 killer that BVHR has yet to buff in any meaningful way. The last two perk are your choice but Surge is probably his best game-delay perk because all his hits are m1 hits and ghostface is much stronger when he has information. BBQ is good perk on ghostface because it tells him where to mark next.
hopefully they buff ghostface chase and his 4vs1 game-delay. he has no game-delay and no chase while being forced to run chase perk combo to even be playable which detracts from game-delay perks.
i disagree about PWYF and Philly. GF is meant to be a stealth ambush killer and that's the most powerful aspect of GF achievable. PWYF significantly shifts gameplay style to chase oriented one (and GF should absolutely avoid truly engaging chases at all costs) and makes you crutch on it aka. never learning to get full potential out of your power. You'd be far better on taking Driver's License addon instead of Philly because it's an awesome slowdown and Philly is already partially basekit.
-
@Slurpin said:
Sluzzy makes a return and just annihilates everyone. Make it happen.
hear me out: Borisky
-
@Skeleton23 said:
Very Very True. I used to play The Trapper because I'm a Strategist Killer or I like to think before I do something. Ghost Face is now my main because I like playing that Killer that takes his time. I may try being more aggressive with my gameplay. Either way no player will be happy on how I play. The best tip I got is if someone does you dirty be dirty back. I can be wrong
GF is one of the killers with the highest skill ceilings in entire game, but is also very map dependant
-
@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3884111#Comment_3884111
Why would we be trying to push Kill Rates up further?
So far as we know, they are already high enough.
Making Survivors have even less time to do anything but gens will only increase how fast gens go.
Cats out of the bag, so to speak. Both sides are playing as competitively as they can. That's on BHVR. The removal of all the BS both sides could do also means there's very little swing in matches. Once one side starts winning, they usually just stomp. Almost no chance to comeback and right now, that favors Killers.
Either way, BHVR either need to commit to MMR and make the game competitive or back it off.
Why would we be trying to push Kill Rates up further?
So far as we know, they are already high enough.
if we'd want to talk about killrates, we'd first have to change mindset of every "casual" player in this game.
If you are willing to talk about killrates, you'd have to play every match with the goal to win.
If you are willing to play every match with a goal to win, you'd have to change your casual mindset and actually start seriously improving at the game instead of looking for casual ways to win while constantly contradicting yourself with "i play for fun, not to win" agenda.
As i said many times, way too many players in this community are trying to have the casual training on how to play the game, are expecting the game to be balanced around casual gameplay just so that they can win as many matches as possible. That's not how it works. If you truly wanna win, you need to start working on yourself, and this applies to every player, especially survivor ones where so many people don't wanna realize they are playing team role when they play soloQ.
Either way, BHVR either need to commit to MMR and make the game competitive or back it off.
ohh but guess what, majority of players don't want to see that because they don't want to have their egos crushed. Implementing better MMR system will make no visual impact on already average players who constantly struggle, it will mostly make impact on players already at very high skill level. That way, average players will still continue complaining because hey, complaining is always a better solution than improving.
-
@HerInfernalMajesty said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3883884#Comment_3883884
get rid of Legion
I mean I know people don’t like to face them but they’re still part of the roster. It doesn’t make sense to limit the roster instead of expand? I feel like if people are that angry then it would be better to tweak the Legion’s power than outright remove them. What about all the players who are Legion fans excited that their favorite Killer is finally in 2v8?
Idk it doesn’t seem like a it would be a good idea to remove any Killer from a gamemode for any reason other than to killswitch them if they’re glitching the game.
there are lot of killers that could be added to 2v8 and are not even remotely hated by the community as much as Legion is. They could at least wait with implementation until they actually found a true solution to queue times, but this way they just discouraged casual players (which are majority of 2v8 players) from playing survivor even more.
-
@Saiph said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3883180#Comment_3883180
What is YOUR solution to fix queue times? Easy to criticize, when every option is bad.
They are just TRYING bots, there's no reason to be so dramatic. The mode has been out for ONE DAY, so in worst case they'll disable bots after a few days and that's all, nobody was hurt, at least now we KNOW bots don't work, instead of having to speculate.
And yes despite what you think the forum IS likely the minority because BHVR conducted a poll about this, so it's fair to assume people voted yes, and there's no problem with that. It is fine to TRY stuff, especially after they conducted a survey.
there is really no way to fix queue times when killer in 2v8 is completely unique experience due to switch from solo to duo role and people will really often wanna play killer for that reason.
I wouldn't really care about it if at least 1v4 queue times were okay, but since they are also astronomically long, i would love if 2v8 never came back
-
@Bartlaus said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/UIHW4TBYPRXQ/250.jpg
Even if you gave me 20,000% more Bloodpoints, I would still avoid this mode, seriously! Is it so hard to understand that Legion is absolutely broken in a 2v8?
he isn't broken in any means, but is absolutely tremendously boring to play against (boring to play as too imho). It's even really ridiculous that BHVR ignored the fact that community widely hates Legion as killer and decided to add them simply because RE cosmetic.
-
imho, this gamemode is just unsustainable in the long run and is plain unhealthy for the game.
The fact that even bots didn't help reduce queue times shows how things are awful even more.
I don't really wanna spend 15+ minutes waiting for the match as killer i 2v8 or playing the boring chaos game as survivor.
Ohh but you still have 1v4 bro! Well no, killer queues even in 1v4 are very long. People are literally taking a break from dbd during 2v8 thanks to this, and i am too.
-
@th3 said:
You can reach it by going to one of the balconies and going from there onto the staircase.
depends on the vault spawn, if the vault is next to the stairs, you can't get there as killer (unless you are playing Legion or Wesker maybe?
-
@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3883240#Comment_3883240
Both of the first two require you to actively chase a recently unhooked target before they can contribute to their team, which, once again, is extremely easy to avoid. This complaint literally boils down to 'why can't I freely tunnel directly into an anti-tunnel perk and not be punished for it!?'
The third point requires extended perk investment and still wastes a ton of survivor time, on top of Plot Twist running into the same issue as the first two.
This perk requires you to not tunnel, simple as. But instead of learning, you decide to do everything the perk is designed to work against and then go 'this isn't fair, why do I get punished for playing into my opponent's strategy?'
So to complain about survivors 'refusing to learn from their mistakes' when you can't even fathom the most basic counterplay to DS is just a terrible case of the pot calling the kettle black.
Both of the first two require you to actively chase a recently unhooked target before they can contribute to their team, which, once again, is extremely easy to avoid. This complaint literally boils down to 'why can't I freely tunnel directly into an anti-tunnel perk and not be punished for it!?'
??? You are literally always getting the value of DS in this case, no matter if it's directly or indirectly.
Tanking a hit for the other survivor is literally giving them additional health state, wasting killer's time and, if you hop locker mid chase, it's guaranteed for killer to have extra extended chase on that survivor if they don't decide to go for you and "fail for DS", which is literally another lose-lose situation. I beg you to at least try and see deeper macro aspects instead of this narrow vision of tunneling-anti-tunneling.
The third point requires extended perk investment and still wastes a ton of survivor time, on top of Plot Twist running into the same issue as the first two.
being able to not only pick yourself up, but also completely reset in the same process and get 50% haste right after you finish it (with no exhaustion) wastes a ton of survivor time? Wow, just wow.
This perk requires you to not tunnel, simple as. But instead of learning, you decide to do everything the perk is designed to work against and then go 'this isn't fair, why do I get punished for playing into my opponent's strategy?'
ahh yes, the average "just do/don't xy" pub mentality, we truly should get used to this.
So to complain about survivors 'refusing to learn from their mistakes' when you can't even fathom the most basic counterplay to DS is just a terrible case of the pot calling the kettle black.
you are the one failing to understand DS as a whole and trying to pull wider understanding behind not only DS, but anti-tunneling perks in general.
-
@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3882647#Comment_3882647
Because apparently, this post-6.1 generation of killers has failed to learn from their mistakes over the past years and adapt to the impact DS is supposed to have, which is why it got nerfed back down.
It is the most avoidable perk in the entire game and yet loads of killer players still complain about it. Including yourself. So to point the finger at survivors and accuse them of not learning from their mistakes while apparently still refusing to learn to counterplay DS, just strikes me as hypocritical.
how can you even say this in a serious manner?
"most avoidable perk" and it forces killer in a lose-lose situation upon:
- entering locker;
- forcing a grab;
- being used in combo with anti-slug perks (Unbreakable and Plot Twist as the most popular options). This is why you will very often see it combined with those.
-
@Roco45 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3882648#Comment_3882648
People are giving up in SoloQ because the game is balanced around comp SWF, SoloQ has literally never been in a worse state in all of DBD history. Most matches of SoloQ are a complete waste of time which drives people to DC and "go next" because the games are for the most part, unwinnable and more importantly unfun, since most Killers just slug/camp/tunnel as if they're playing against a comp 4 stack SWF. The MMR also doesn't actually do anything and the mm was way better when they relied on rank, not that they should go back to that, but they need to ditch this current lame duck iteration of a sbmm.
People are so damn quick to want to punish SoloQ players for their actions, but most people gloss over what is causing SoloQ to be a nightmare and it isn't people wanting out of a match, that's a symptom of a much larger issue. SWF has remained unchecked and Killers have to rely on truly game mechanic breaking Killers to even remotely get anything done at high ranks against sweat SWF's, so ofc SoloQ is miserable since Killers need that baseline and then carry it over to SoloQ matches where it's absolutely not needed in the slightest.
People are giving up in SoloQ because the game is balanced around comp SWF, SoloQ has literally never been in a worse state in all of DBD history. Most matches of SoloQ are a complete waste of time which drives people to DC and "go next" because the games are for the most part, unwinnable and more importantly unfun, since most Killers just slug/camp/tunnel as if they're playing against a comp 4 stack SWF. The MMR also doesn't actually do anything and the mm was way better when they relied on rank, not that they should go back to that, but they need to ditch this current lame duck iteration of a sbmm.
completely incorrect. If you go back in time, when soloQ was in a far worse state QoL wise, people were giving up way less, meaning that your argument about giving up due to "balance around comp SWF" falls into water.
People are giving up for the most individual reasons that don't have anything to do with the team (losing first chase for example) and due to plain burnout and the fact that no matter what, they don't wanna stop playing this game, but they are willing to ruin experience for other players if their "needs" aren't satisfied.
People are so damn quick to want to punish SoloQ players for their actions, but most people gloss over what is causing SoloQ to be a nightmare and it isn't people wanting out of a match, that's a symptom of a much larger issue. SWF has remained unchecked and Killers have to rely on truly game mechanic breaking Killers to even remotely get anything done at high ranks against sweat SWF's, so ofc SoloQ is miserable since Killers need that baseline and then carry it over to SoloQ matches where it's absolutely not needed in the slightest.
"game mechanic breaking killers" 😭😭😭
Bro have you ever tried to approach to counterplay for specific killers from a different perspective instead of trying to act like every killer should be M1 based and have no other kind of kit? People are mostly losing against the worst killers in this game.
-
@Unequalmitten86 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3882590#Comment_3882590
I disagree with this. It shouldn't be balanced by a small percentage of players. They should balance it around a medium high. They should also bring back comp and restriction of perks for that.
comp still exists, but average player has a mindset that it's for "sweats" while that same average player wants to establish the best possible outcome from their match by the most casual kind of learning. Not to mention terrible state of soloQ with people still being allowed to blatantly give up at the start and griefing in general still not being properly addressed.
-
@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3882582#Comment_3882582
yes, i was. DS was tweaked in a way where it became even more powerful against majority of killers it was already strong against, while the core problem of it against Billy, Nurse and Blight still remained. There was a way to make the perk be much better against Nurse, Blight and Billy while not being even more powerful against other killers but hey, i guess "casual" players know better.
Don't you think you're the wrong person to call others out for 'refusing to look back at their own mistakes' when you still get your knickers in a twist over DS?
please tell me how did you draw the DS problematic-refusal to improve logic because mind you, you are just the one who failed to get the point of DS problematic and are indirectly ignoring the problem this perk creates for majority of killers, while still not performing well against S-tiers.
Or we should all maybe understand the game from casual aspect, while trying to go for the best outcomes, like you are trying to do?
-
@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3882287#Comment_3882287
Hook grab removal has been a long time ago. Shoulder the burden is in almost no games, for real. Pain res is still strong.
You sound like someone that uses "meta" only. I encourage you to look beyond that. You can play however you want of course. I dont slug because i see no reason to do so. My builds still work like they used to work.Hook grab removal has been a long time ago. Shoulder the burden is in almost no games, for real. Pain res is still strong.
Deliverance is also rarely used and is yet the most oppressive and powerful survivor perk.
Pain Res is not that strong anymore after the 5% nerf. It's okayish and probably would hold low A-tier. Eruption is the only actually still very good regression perk.
You sound like someone that uses "meta" only. I encourage you to look beyond that. You can play however you want of course. I dont slug because i see no reason to do so. My builds still work like they used to work.
my opponent plays meta, why should i handicap myself to suit their agenda? And i slug because that's basically necessary part of Oni's power.
My build used to have Pain Res constantly, but after many matches with the post-nerf version of it, i dropped it for Eruption.
@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3882403#Comment_3882403
The closest thing to a 50/50 (Also known as 'balance') is high level swiffer. Solo is miles under the mark. 'Scuse us for assuming that if the game happens to be balanced around swiffer, that it is balanced for swiffer.
bias? Please tell me what is bias in a game where average player refuses to look back at their own mistakes and proceeds to make essays of excuses after they lose?
Weren't you complaining about DS the other day?
Weren't you complaining about DS the other day?
yes, i was. DS was tweaked in a way where it became even more powerful against majority of killers it was already strong against, while the core problem of it against Billy, Nurse and Blight still remained. There was a way to make the perk be much better against Nurse, Blight and Billy while not being even more powerful against other killers but hey, i guess "casual" players know better.
@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3882389#Comment_3882389
Saying "Solo Q is spoiled" is pretty biased.
what exactly is wrong with my statement? People literally feel the full freedom to play soloQ in ways where they are actively sabotaging their team. People in SWFs won't decide to just troll if the rest of their team isn't trolling, people in SWF won't give up if the rest of their team doesn't want to. Why? Because they know they are playing with their friends and they don't want to throw the match for the whole team to fail.
On top of everything, every single change implemented to help soloQ often isn't even utilized by people in soloQ at all.
Now again, what's exactly wrong with my statement?
-
@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3882251#Comment_3882251
Last line revealed that major bias lololol.
SWF aren't even escaping 50% of the time in the best case scenario.
Look, just be honest, if you want the KR to be 75%, just say that.
bias? Please tell me what is bias in a game where average player refuses to look back at their own mistakes and proceeds to make essays of excuses after they lose?
-
@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3882315#Comment_3882315
This
What part of it made dealing with a 4-man SWF easier?
and this
And how does anti-loop help specifically to deal with a coordinated 4-man SWF?
are different things.
A buff doesn't have to be specifically tailored to dealing with 4-man swiffers to still help against 4-man swiffers. The action speed increase, the reduced hit-sprint, the longer generators, all of those will help you deal with a 4-man swiffer, even if they aren't -specifically- designed to deal with a 4-man swiffer. That's what I wager Pulsar is referring to when they state that the game is now balanced around swiffers, not solos. Killers just got flat buffs across the board to bump them up from solo tier to swiffer tier.
Think of it like this: If you want to shorten the gap between Nurse and Trapper, you don't need to specifically give Trapper the ability to phase through walls so that he's specifically more analogous to Nurse. You can also give him pre-installed traps, auto-resetting traps, more trap carrying capacity, or some new ability to trap generators. These won't help him compete better with -specifically Nurse-, but they will help him compete better with Nurse anyway.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3882324#Comment_3882324
sholder the burden
I still do not understand how Shoulder the Burden is considered a 'powerful perk'. All it does is make someone exposed upon unhooking. It's Make Your Choice, except it's in a survivor slot.
Unless, of course, you're a tunnelling addict.
I still do not understand how Shoulder the Burden is considered a 'powerful perk'. All it does is make someone exposed upon unhooking. It's Make Your Choice, except it's in a survivor slot.
it literally, LITERALLY forces 12-hooking. It doesn't only hard counter tunneling, it punishes any hooking order that isn't constantly fresh 1-2-3-4 hooking. This kind of gameplay is literally hardcore bad for killers with today's state of hooking.
I literally can't understand how can you even say that it only counters tunneling and how it is "not powerful" at all? Good survivor doesn't care if they have additional hook state at all.
But hey, it's really fun how some of the best survivor perks in the game, like Deli, StB and Reassurance get heavily underestimated within pub community because people mainly think there is only one use for every perk :D
-
@radiantHero23 said:
I'm still of the simple opinion of : you don't need to do this. At all.
Hooking is as viable as it has been a couple of months before.
Some people just want their matches to be chill (which is absolutely understandable) but also win all the time (which contradicts with the first one).
it can't still be as viable as it used to be few months ago when last hook based killer meta perk, Pain Res, got nerfed again, while survivors got currently strongest survivor perk StB, hook grabs removed, +10s to hook timers and saboing buffed. Only two actually meta hook related killer perks are Grim and DMS.
@jajay119 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3882153#Comment_3882153
This post hits the nail on the head for me. It’s exactly like when tunnelling was rife ‘because everyone was using dead hard and I have to counter it’ completely negating the fact that the rise in people using DH in the first place was to counter the growing trend of tunnelling. Did tunnelling stop when DH was nerfed? No, it continued and some killers even were happy to admit they were going to carry on tunnelling because it was ‘the most efficient play style’.
it’s the same now. There are so many excuses given about how ‘x,y,z has been nerfed, completely negating that it was the overuse of those elements that lead to that nerf in the first place, that they have to slug. However when the majority of the times you’re being slugged is at 5 gens, or for the 4k or because the killer is unhappy at how the match is going and just wants you all to bleed out, which is where we are at now, it needs review and even if other things changed and slugging stayed the same I don’t don’t killers would stop doing it because it’s too easy of a fallback. It can snowball a match quite easily in their favour.
Someone said in another thread that it’s not fair to label all killers that slug as ‘toxic’ and I agree - however slugging is now getting to a point where it is genuinely cresting a toxic environment. It seriously needs addressing because it’s harming the health of the game.
Perks are not necessarily nerfed because they are overused (Corrupt and WoO for example), perks are nerfed for various known and unknown reasons (more often unknown). Pain Res was nerfed to a 4 fresh hooks token based system because of it's synergy with old DMS, Pop received a hard nerf that rendered it borderline useless.
-
@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3882157#Comment_3882157
The actual real issue, which is what you are getting close to, is that the game is balanced around SWF.
The game used to be balanced around Solo Q with all the absolutely wild ######### you could have/do. Over time, that has dwindled. Now, Killers are built to deal with 4-man SWF's. Solo Q has been left in the dust due to these changes.
game is balanced around SWF for completely different reasons, and even with that in mind, we can clearly see that perks that are literally way too powerful in SWF are not even in plans for being touched at all.
If we balanced the game around soloQ, we would balance it around artificially inflated killrates through going next on hook, playing for whatever objectives that are different than team related ones etc.
Game SHOULD be balanced around SWF with QoL changes implemented to soloQ that would make overall experience better while not making the game more about making SWFs even more powerful, but making soloQ players feel even more spoiled.
-
@jokere98 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3881821#Comment_3881821
The version we have now (8.0+) is objectively better than when it was considered a meta perk and one of the best in 6.1.0. There's also been no change to pop in almost a year, so there's zero excuse for it to be included in a recent "slugging meta" in the past couple months.So that's why it's pickrate dropped MASSIVELY, and has gone up only after getting buffed to 30%?
when you do basic maths, perk literally isn't worth running unless you are kicking 90%+ gen with it, and even in that case ot's only semi-useful on high mobility killers.
-
@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3881813#Comment_3881813
This is just post hoc rationalisation and making excuses. Nothing about perks changed in the past roughly 6+ months before this started being a thing.
The only change that occurred anywhere near the time this started is the extra 10 seconds hook timer (8.2.0 - august 2024). Which, by the way, only comes into play if the killer is camping or lurking near hook to tunnel. Suddenly all of the complaints about instant unhooking to keep killer pressure at a minimum are forgotten and people lose their minds because they can't conceive of not camping or tunneling in this game.
As for pop, this is the ultimate excuse and is absolutely. Not. The reason people are slugging in any way. Here's a timeline for pgtw in about the past year:
6.1 (July 2022): 20% of current + 2.5% total (base kit) this version was still meta for years and "the best regression available" after they fixed cobruption.
7.0 (may 2023): 30% of current and 2.5% total (base kit)
7.5 (January 2024): 30% current and 5% total (base kit)
8.0 (may 2024): 20% of current and 5% of total (base kit)
The version we have now (8.0+) is objectively better than when it was considered a meta perk and one of the best in 6.1.0. There's also been no change to pop in almost a year, so there's zero excuse for it to be included in a recent "slugging meta" in the past couple months.
If you're going to lie about the reasons, then WGLF was buffed in 8.3.0 (September 2024) and then the extra bonus healing slugged survivors speed was then nerfed soon after back to 100% (8.3.2 in October 2024). Which is just about when this all started.
Seems like if we're just going to say anything on this topic then WGLF changes had far more to do with this than pop ever did. (Which is still probably not much imo, but this while argument of yours and similar ones from others is just simply wrong).
The only change that occurred anywhere near the time this started is the extra 10 seconds hook timer (8.2.0 - august 2024). Which, by the way, only comes into play if the killer is camping or lurking near hook to tunnel. Suddenly all of the complaints about instant unhooking to keep killer pressure at a minimum are forgotten and people lose their minds because they can't conceive of not camping or tunneling in this game.
hook grabs removal, +10s to hook timers, StB introduction, sabo buffs.
Now, let's take a look at what you can do in terms of killer gameplay which can remotely be called meta.
Camp - well, viable if you actually manage to hook survivor inside a 3-gen or other very beneficial zone. Hard countered by basekit +10s hook stage time and Reassurance.
Tunnel - 3v1 is the best situation killer can have, but with all anti-tunneling perks existing, if your opponent is remotely experienced, this won't really work and you will lose way too much time while trying to push opponents into a 3v1.
Slug - much lower risk in terms of time wasted in terms of countering off-hook survivor perks, but having 2 WGLFs in opponent team means you are not going to even remotely be able to slug anyone (i am talking about current version, imagine how powerful previous one was).
12 hooks/forcing fresh hooks - ??? this is the biggest possible waste of your time as killer and the most inefficient kind of strategy you can use unless you want to flex skill difference between you and your opponents as an ideal way to handicap yourself. Additionally, Introduction of StB basically works towards forcing 12-hooking, which pretty much tells you enough about this strategy.
All in all, since there are 4 survivors with 16 perks in total, you can literally combine anti-tunnel, anti-slug and anti-camp to not only counter camping, tunneling and slugging, but to also force 12-hooking as the most inefficient way to play the game as killer.
And what tools do you actually have as the killer to counter survivor meta? You basically only have Corrupt to serve as a bit of a help against early gen splitting, which is literally survivor version of killer forcing early 3v1. Eruption, DMS and Grim are the only actually useful slowdowns nowadays (Grim varies in terms of how much 4th survivor is able to delay your 4th stack).
And ngl, at this point i think only those 4 perks are actually true meta for killer.
The version we have now (8.0+) is objectively better than when it was considered a meta perk and one of the best in 6.1.0. There's also been no change to pop in almost a year, so there's zero excuse for it to be included in a recent "slugging meta" in the past couple months.
Pop is useless now. Like truly useless. Even on high mobility, which can get some of it's value, it relies on 90%+ gens to actually be on level of Eruption in terms of consistency of value.
-
@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3881563#Comment_3881563
A BT hit is an unsafe rescue, which is a free down. OTR, again, requires the survivor to do nothing in order to preserve their endurance, trading off for that one hit (Also mutually exclusive with BT). DH is an exhaustion perk, not an anti-tunnel perk, (Also mutually exclusive with BT and OTR) and if you slam your face into DS, that's still your fault. You could just leave 'em slugged instead and let them waste their own and likely their team's time.
And no, I know that survivors can -try- to use them offensively, but they don't -work- offensively unless the killer falls for it. You can make it incredibly unrewarding by simply smacking the bodyblocker out of the way and going for your initial target.
I've been hit by DS once, and that's all it took for me to learn my lesson. Every single time afterwards where they've tried to pull the stunts you're describing has rolled into a 4K for me.
A BT hit is an unsafe rescue, which is a free down. OTR, again, requires the survivor to do nothing in order to preserve their endurance, trading off for that one hit (Also mutually exclusive with BT). DH is an exhaustion perk, not an anti-tunnel perk, (Also mutually exclusive with BT and OTR) and if you slam your face into DS, that's still your fault. You could just leave 'em slugged instead and let them waste their own and likely their team's time.
endurance on OTR gives you opportunity to tank hit for another teammate if they manage to get pushed in a deadzone, not to mention that it's grunts of pain removal and immunity to aura reading work even after conspicuous action perfectly for stealthing.
DH is "utility" perk giving you chance to tank additional hot after mending from OTR endurance for example. Awesome for extending chases when people know how to use it, and even as an aggressive anti-tunnel. It's NOT mutually exclusive with OTR, it would be if OTR gave you long exhaustion after hit maybe.
DS wise, hope you heard about hopping into a locker too :)
And no, I know that survivors can -try- to use them offensively, but they don't -work- offensively unless the killer falls for it. You can make it incredibly unrewarding by simply smacking the bodyblocker out of the way and going for your initial target.
unless the killer falls for it? Tanking hit for a teammate by intentionally standing between them and killer is not the "killer falling for it" gotcha at all.
Bodyblocker literally wants killer to hit them, and the endurance can be used in so many situations.
I've been hit by DS once, and that's all it took for me to learn my lesson. Every single time afterwards where they've tried to pull the stunts you're describing has rolled into a 4K for me.
because average player doesn't know how, when and where to force a down or hop into a locker to force a down (even if it's a slug it's in a good spot for a pickup). It's a lose-lose situation for killer when survivors actually have some macro knowledge.
-
@Nomade said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/438117/slugging
There are a lot of really good videos made by people nailing exactly why it is happening I suggest you watch them. TO give you a basic idea going in, Hooking survivor is horrible now after being nerfed over and over and over and over. It activates the strongest survivor perks in the game, you have to deal with flashbang inside of your body BS, bodyblocking, flashlight saves plus all the wasted time walking people to a hook.
With slugging its a lot more fun for the killer. Its just chase after chase after chase which is the most fun part of the game. Slugging makes killer actually feel fun to play again.
So basically balance issues and fun issues.
Also @NarkoTri1er Your post is in violation of the forum rules. I suggest editing it before a mod sees it.. Additionally, you are quite incorrect. Knockout is run as a means of slowdown because hook slowdown kills itself and sucks complete dog water, 8 gen kick limit STILL being a thing despite SM being dead and actually just gen regression perks in general being laughably weak after being nerfed over and over and over for the past year at least.Also @NarkoTri1er Your post is in violation of the forum rules. I suggest editing it before a mod sees it.. Additionally, you are quite incorrect. Knockout is run as a means of slowdown because hook slowdown kills itself and sucks complete dog water, 8 gen kick limit STILL being a thing despite SM being dead and actually just gen regression perks in general being laughably weak after being nerfed over and over and over for the past year at least.
i'm pretty sure it doesn't violate anything.
Also, why am i incorrect? Knock Out is a perk that literally thrives off lack of coordination capabilities in soloQ, and if it gives insane results for you, it just proves that you are mostly facing soloQ teams.
We can have opinion that slugging is forced because forcing hooks is practically pointless nowadays, but defending Knock Out is simply wild and works more counterproductive than everything other.
If you find slugging without Knock Out more difficult, i really need to tell you that you are underperforming not only against SWFs, but against soloQ teams too.
-
@VibranToucan said:
Knockout is used in 1.7% of all recorded games. Meaning, statistically speaking, if you play 1000 games you see it on average in 17 matches.
What changed to encourage slugging?
Shoulder the Burden was added, Decisive Strike was buffed, sabotage was buffed, hook times were increased, Flashbangs are allowed to stay bugged in the game, perks that encourage hooking (pain res, pop, grim embrace) are nerfed meanwhile perks that punish trying to hook either get buffed (for example Flashbang) or get compensation buffs if they do get changed (for example Background Player)
yes, slugging is reasonable for all the reasons you mentioned.
Is the use of Knock Out justified? No, it's a perk that desperately needs to be reworked, BHVR will come up with another bandaid where slugging in general will be impacted, while nothing will be done about hooks.
-
one more reason not to play it lol
-
@TieBreaker said:
The FNAF release will bring in a lot of children. Which in turn will make the playerbase even more bratty and obnoxious than it already was lmao.
i also think FNAF release will probably mean the biggest uprising in milking licences and dbd being a horror fortnite more than ot ever was, and i am afraid that bugfixing will be completely set aside due to sheer focus to licences.
-
reading so many comments here makes me truly want devs to balance this game only around comp scene because istg, majority of players have 0 insight on any problem in the game, including slugging
-
- average dbd player learns the game in a casual way, but expects to get top tier competitive results with the casual training and as low effort as possible.
- losing majority of your matches as either side has nothing to do with game balance, taking in mind how bad matchmaking is, but it has a lot to do with your lack of macro skill and poor decision making, no matter which side you play
-
@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3880673#Comment_3880673
You are really reaching here with the "strongest Survivor Perks".
I mean, I can get behind saying that Deliverance, OTR and DS are strong, even tho I would say that at least the latter two are really overrated.
But Babysitter, Reassurance, Resurgence, Second Wind and Shoulder the Burden? Aside from Resurgence, all of them just have in Common that Killers on the Forum were Doomposting when the Perks got introduced or buffed that they will make Killer unplayable. Yet I barely see those Perks in my games. If they would be so strong, they would be way more common.
I mean, I can get behind saying that Deliverance, OTR and DS are strong, even tho I would say that at least the latter two are really overrated.
OTR - no grunts of pain, immune to aura reading, free endurance to eventually tank a hit for teammate or get into next safe tile before killer downs you. All this for full 80s. This perk literally even holds way too much power for the duration it has.
DS - completely obliterates M1 killers and hold significant power against almost every killer when survivors know things like where to force downs after unhook
But Babysitter, Reassurance, Resurgence, Second Wind and Shoulder the Burden? Aside from Resurgence, all of them just have in Common that Killers on the Forum were Doomposting when the Perks got introduced or buffed that they will make Killer unplayable. Yet I barely see those Perks in my games. If they would be so strong, they would be way more common.
Babysitter - brutal anti-tunnel which basically provides full stealth when you unhook a survivor that has OTR, but in general, 10% haste for 30s is literally nuts.
Reassurance - literally a free card that prevents tunneling by keeping survivor on hook more, counters camping as a whole and nullifies killer's hook pressure in general.
Second Wind - literally a syringe v2.0 for unhooked survivor, do i even need to explain this one?
Shoulder the Burden - arguably the #1 best survivor perk in the entire game that not only counters tunneling, but literally forces 12-hooking and has impact on any hooking order that isn't putting every survivor on fresh hook before going for next hook state.
The reason you barely see those perk in your matches is because average survivor lacks macro skill expression to understand importance of additional game aspects.
@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3880673#Comment_3880673
Resurgence? Really?
These are all post hoc excuses for this behavior, and, surprised Pikachu, it all seems to point to "buff killer" or "nerf survivor".
The idea of "buff me or I'll keep making people's games miserable" is bully mentality. And while I'll freely admit that not everyone who slugs is doing it out of spite, there absolutely is a group who does it for exactly that reason.
We had similar problems with 3 genning, and even double locker saves. And, rightly so, the solutions the devs implemented were base kit mechanics that outright prevented the excessive use of those cough "strategies". Not "buff them". The same kind of thing should be coming, though what it looks like I don't know yet.
if you really think Resurgence isn't that much powerful, i don't know what to tell you.
And btw, balance decisions for strategies, perks, items addons and killers are not only based on pickrates, but also on general impact of those on match
-
@Aven_Fallen said:
Not really. Slugging was always that good, the thing is that nobody did it back then. Slugging provides the same map pressure which hooking provides (which is something which was said while DS was actually good, but always ignored by Killers, because DS was apparently the flavor of the months why they lose games), but is easier to do.
Killers just did not realize or utilize it. Even if you revert all the things you mentioned, we would still see massive slugging. The same happened with tunneling, when you clearly did not need to tunnel in the Eruption-Meta - yet it was completely present, since it was just so efficient, despite Killers having a Build at hand where they would not need to tunnel, because it was just that good that you had to try to lose games.
Nobody needs to slug in the way it is done currently. Even if people think they go against MAX MMR and BEST PLAYERS IN (REGION) or whatver.
slugging was always at the same state, but hooking benefits were going downhill, at one point they broke even, but it wasn't over. BHVR kept pushing changes to hooks that would benefit survivors more and thus, we have slugging as new meta not because it's stronger or anything, but only because hooking has been greatly discouraged.
There were actual benefits of forcing hooks before (previous Pop, old Pain Res), while nowadays Grim and DMS are only decent hook related slowdowns.
-
@Glaive said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3880574#Comment_3880574
Because hook perks aren’t rewarding enough anymore (His argument).
and he is completely right lol.
Grim Embrace and DMS are the only truly efficient hook based perks nowadays. Pain Res has dropped out of meta with the final kick from 25% to 20%.
On the other side, the strongest survivor perks (Deli, OTR, DS, Babysitter, Reassurance, Resurgence, Second Wind StB etc.) are all hook based, plus some base game changes to hooks have made them even stronger for survivor side, meaning hooking a survivor is more of a punishment than reward, unless you are able to tunnel someone out considerably fast into the match.
-
@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3880206#Comment_3880206
this change was rather implemented for the reason to avoid forced bleeding out.
So instead of killers using the excuse that they are somehow "forced" to slug, now we see the real reason, which is that they want to. The slugging meta came about after this change.
In terms of slugging, it was expected to emerge on a top after forcing hooks as the killer has been killed in terms of applying map pressure.
The extra 10 seconds on hook doesn't come into play unless you stay near the hook. It's designed, and only impacts, hard camping or lurking with the intention of tunneling. Those are the opposite of map pressure.
This comment, and this entire argument "for slugging" shows how much people have no idea what map pressure actually means. It's going after survivors doing gens. That's it.
Camping and tunneling is the opposite of map pressure. It's hook pressure on one survivor, who, coincidentally, is already occupied by being hooked. It's useful in rare circumstances, but if you're camping your first hook of the game, you're leaving at least 2, maybe even 3 survivors alone to do whatever they want (hint it's gens).
Map pressure is forcing the survivors to choose between things they want to do, with things they have to do. They already have to unhook, so unless you force chase they'll just do gens and have one person unhook.
The extra 10 seconds on hook doesn't come into play unless you stay near the hook. It's designed, and only impacts, hard camping or lurking with the intention of tunneling. Those are the opposite of map pressure.
extra 10s on hook comes into play in various cases, camping is just one of those, i was hoping we really got over that "narrow minded" mindset, same as with e.g. recently released StB not only being useful against tunneling, but also against any kind of hooking order that isn't fresh hooking everyone, 2nd hooking everyone and then death hooking everyone.
This comment, and this entire argument "for slugging" shows how much people have no idea what map pressure actually means. It's going after survivors doing gens. That's it.
map pressure is such a wide term to use and saying how tunneling, slugging and camping work completely opposite of that is not really correct when any of those creates pressure if used at correct place at correct moment.
As much as killers who just brainlessly hard tunnel, camp or Knock Out slug everyone don't know what map pressure is, average survivor player who acts like "just learn to apply map pressure" don't know it either, they just use it as an excuse to complain about killers using xy strategy.
Camping and tunneling is the opposite of map pressure. It's hook pressure on one survivor, who, coincidentally, is already occupied by being hooked. It's useful in rare circumstances, but if you're camping your first hook of the game, you're leaving at least 2, maybe even 3 survivors alone to do whatever they want (hint it's gens).
as i already said, this is absolutely right and absolutely wrong at the same time.
Camping inside a 3-gen with an opportunity to prevent it being broken through is literally huge pressure on survivors due to the fact that hooked survivor is going to die, but at the same time, they need to be really careful in terms of which gens they do.
Managing to achieve an early 3v1 is literally the biggest form of pressure killer can have on survivors, but you need to really be careful about where and when will you attempt it. If you get an extremely fast first down, your best option in terms of maintaining pressure is to tunnel that survivor out. This will prove extremely useful later in the match.
Map pressure is forcing the survivors to choose between things they want to do, with things they have to do. They already have to unhook, so unless you force chase they'll just do gens and have one person unhook.
correct definition, tho there are many more premises in this equation.
If killer camps a survivor in 3-gen, you are definitely going to need to have more than one survivor coming for an unhook and you would definitely need to think about baiting killer into deadzone for the next hook if you really wanna do something, otherwise you are doomed.
If killer manages to tunnel out a survivor early, they finished 50% of their job in the match, and rest ofnthe team will be significantly less efficient.
-
@buggybug said:
Another killer perk for the survivors which that is what innovations already is how lovely.
how exactly would this be a "killer" perk? Because it would give the possibility to best player in the team to be on death hook, while giving everyone else additional hook state, which is literally a win-win for survivors
-
@sizzlingmario4 said:
It's been a while since the Nurse has received an update, and I suppose I just want to throw out what I think about her and how I think she could be improved to be a bit more fair.
For context: I enjoy the Nurse. I enjoy playing her, and she is one of my favorite killers to play against. I feel that Nurse brings something to the game that no other killer does - she is unique and completely changes the way chases are played. But having said that, she is the strongest killer for a reason, and I think there are a few problems with her and things that should be changed. Those are:
- Add aura-Blindness while charging a blink and while blinking. Basically, the fact that she can see survivors' auras while using her power is problematic. This is a significant change, but I think it's necessary, and this is why:
- There are really 3 main strategies to counter the Nurse in chase:
- 1. Making distance and getting as far away from her as possible since she is slower than survivors.
- 2. Breaking line of sight.
- 3. Being as unpredictable as possible.
- These 3 forms of counterplay work well enough together in tandem, but effects that let you see survivors' auras basically remove #2 as a counterplay option entirely and make #1 much more difficult. Since the way the Nurse attacks survivors is different from pretty much any other killer, it makes aura reading particularly powerful on her, to a degree where seeing a survivor's aura is often just an almost guaranteed hit that the survivor doesn't always have a fair chance to predict or react to. This change is not intended to eliminate aura reading on her completely - she will still be able to use information perks like BBQ to find survivors, or use aura perks in chase to see where survivors are going BEFORE beginning to charge a blink, but she will no longer be able to perfectly react to a survivor's movements behind walls while charging and using her power - and this is something survivors can keep in mind as well when deciding their next move (there would no longer be a question of "I broke line of sight, can she still see me or not?"). Aura-reading ability would be restored once the Nurse has fully gone into fatigue (ie. once the Nurse player's screen has shifted all the way down, she can see auras again). This reduces the power of aura-reading on the Nurse, but without removing it as an option entirely and preserves the ability to use those perks in some capacity, rather than restricting her perk choices even further than they already are.
- There are really 3 main strategies to counter the Nurse in chase:
- Make stuns result in losing all blink charges, with recharge not starting until the stun ends. While pallet stuns are fairly rare in Nurse games, the occasional pallet stun isn't even that impactful since a lot of the time she can just blink on you immediately after. This change makes those stuns a bit more rewarding and also makes Decisive Strike more effective against her. Even if you use DS on a Nurse, she'll get her power back while picking up and during the stun animation and be ready to go as soon as the stun ends, so it's not uncommon to go down again almost immediately. With this, she has to wait an additional 6 seconds after the stun before getting both her blinks back.
Then, for addons, I'm focusing here on 3 of her best addons as well as her #1 worst addon.
- Heavy Panting is easily one of the Nurse's strongest addons, giving her a 30% increased lunge range after any chain blink. This can be thrown onto pretty much any build and give good value every game, making the Nurse's chain blinks even more forgiving and easier to hit as it allows her to be less accurate, and is overall too strong. I think it would be best to rework this entirely and not give out any amount of extra lunge to her so unconditionally, Nurse's power is strong enough as it is and she should be required to be fairly accurate with it.
- Fragile Wheeze is a quite reliable source of healing slowdown on an S-tier killer. Inflicting Mangled for 70s on every blink attack is a fairly consistent way to slow down healing given the Nurse's fast-paced nature, and while this addon isn't very different from some similar addons on some other killers, I think given that Nurse is the strongest killer in the game her addons should be a bit weaker than most other killers. With that in mind, while I don't think this addon needs a huge nerf, I would like to see its duration reduced by 10 seconds to bring it down to the lower end of the timer durations generally used for mangled addons; most of them don't go lower than 60 seconds, and I think that's more appropriate for this addon in particular combined with the fact that unlike most other similar addons this one does not have hemorrhage (which is a good thing, it shouldn't have it).
- Torn Bookmark gives the Nurse an unconditional 3rd blink charge for not enough of a downside. Getting 3 blinks is an absurdly powerful effect even for an iridescent addon, and while it does increase the blink recharge time by 30%, this is only an extra 0.9 seconds per blink which is not really enough to justify its power. Personally, I don't think 3 blink Nurse is fair at all (it makes her way too easy) and I'd be perfectly happy to see this reworked as well, but if not, then it should at least have a bigger recharge penalty, if you miss a survivor with 3 blinks there should be a severe consequence.
- Last but not least, Dull Bracelet is a terribly weak and uninteresting addon and should be reworked. This is the yellow meme addon which reduces the maximum blink range by 20%. The Nurse has 3 meme addons - the other 2 can be fun to use on occasion (4.6 walking Nurse) and/or offer a way for extremely good players to willingly challenge themselves (reduced blink lunge which requires more accuracy), but this one does neither of those things and we really don't need a 3rd meme addon. I'm not saying make it strong (again, Nurse's addons shouldn't be that powerful, and certainly don't make it an increased range instead, we all know how unbalanced that was), but it should have a more interesting effect.
So that's it, that's a list of changes I'd like to see made to DBD's most powerful killer, and I think these changes tone her down a bit but still keep her as a strong killer and preserves her identity and the things that make Nurse the unique character she is. What do you think?
all of these would be really good changes, especailly blindness during blink charging, because without it, Nurse has completely op synergy with NTH and Predator for example.
- Add aura-Blindness while charging a blink and while blinking. Basically, the fact that she can see survivors' auras while using her power is problematic. This is a significant change, but I think it's necessary, and this is why:
-
average killer player will consider everything they lose against a "bully squad", but the true definition of bully squad is just a:
squad that puts their victory priority aside and focuses more on trying to tilt the killer as much as possible so that they either force the killer to DC or simply make them look as miserable as possible.
-
@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3880179#Comment_3880179
Interesting perspective! Has made me think over a few things and shift some views. Appreciate the convo :)
glad to be able to help <3
-
you are still in animation, that's why killer grabs you
-
let's go one by one:
Respawning the hooks when it wasn't a problem to begin with.. if its the survivors fault they 3-gened then it's the killers fault they used up the only hook nearby
although i agree hook respawns significantly impacted the skill aspect of actually strategizing hook placement, this change was rather implemented for the reason to avoid forced bleeding out.
Making it so the gen has to have 5% progress put back into it before it can stop regressing and conveniently pain resonance + grim embrace/dead man's switch is perfect for covering the gen faster then you can stop the regression
counterweight for gen tapping being removed is max of 8 regression events per gen. Pain Res used to be obnoxiously powerful with Grim, but after the latest nerf, it's...here and there.
granting the ability to mori the last survivor which is undeserved being most killers leave the 3th down to search for the 4th also it's not fair to the last survivor when they haven't been hooked/seen all game then get moried at the end
although slugging for mori is very cringe, when last survivor gets downed, it's basically game over for them no matter the amount of hook states (unless they have Deliverance for 1st hook, but that's just unnecessary waste of time since killer would camp the hook to be sure they down survivor as soon as they Deli off the hook).
Almost every event recently only really benefited the killers example this past haunted by daylight they made it so the killer knew you were in the void made them undetectable and made it so they could use their powers but they took away the ability to use exhaustion perks for survivors cmon that's 3 ups for the killer and 1 down for the survivor I know they gave us the smoke crystal but it blinded us just as much as the killer I ran into a wall more times then I want to admit
Haunted by Daylight is still very much survivor sided if we take it into the mind that both sides actively enter the void to use their charges. Why? Because it's a deadzone for killer and a place where they put 0 pressure on the map, meaning survivors are free to do gens while killer is in the void. Not to mention that entering the void is still a brutally good way to e.g. waste Oni's power. It was even more obnoxious for the killer during the previous Haunted by Daylight since no powers worked in the void at all.
They made alert pretty much useless against undetectable killers including stake out but watered down distortion so if my token gets consumed by lethal pursuer and killer has bbq/ friends til the end I'm screwed
you won't really bump up into undetectable killers that much often, and even if you do, it's gonna be Myers, Wraith or Ghostface, which are not even difficult to play against.
I believe they changed ruin back so now it stays active even if someone dies (at least the last time I didn't die first ruin was still active) mind you ruin keeps me from using blast mine.. also as soon as I let the gen go even by mistake it sets it back 5% ik it's not a lot but every second counts
nag, Ruin still deactivates after first kill. Are you sure you weren't playing against Ruin + Undying? Maybe Undying was left lit, but you thought it was Ruin.
There's so many perks now that help the killer find you as if it was even hard it's ridiculous how someone gets found within 30 secs into the match and it's even more ridiculous how a killer can get the ability to kill at 5 gens with devour hope (Ik it's a hex it can be broken same as ruin but I've spent so much time trying to find it and couldn't)
yes but they help them find you, not win a chase against you. Unless we are talking about NTH and Predator, especially on Nurse.
The killers have 3 ups they have their power. Their add-ons (some very strong add-ons) and perks and Ik it's always been like that but it gets more difficult when you give them a power and an ability AKA turning into bats to bypass pallets/windows or picking/preventing you from dropping a pallet.. survivors do have items but 1 toolbox on a gen with the best add-ons isn't really going to do anything if my teammates myself included keep getting hooked plus Franklin's + weaving atonement + 4 items that's a killers wet dream and the fact any teleporting killer can teleport back to the hook immediately after someone gets saved is a major problem
toolboxes are the fastest way to finish the match, but you have no use of them if you don't know to stealth properly. Medkits tho are still the strongest survivor item.
The face-camping mechanism (I called it an anti-camping bar but someone corrected me even though if a killer is smart which most are they know not to get too close bc that bar is in place) doesn't help as much as they thought I've seen plenty of times the killer stood back far enough knowing it wouldn't trigger the mechanism.. in some cases I believe it is okay to camp like if it's 2 gens and you've got no hooks but too many killers camp at 5-4 gens and too many killers immediately come back to the hook I get that the camping bar doesn't help that but if killer comes back to the hook penalize them for it by deducting points
anti-facecamp meter was designed to prevent toxic use of camping, aka. "i hooked you and now i'm gonna watch you die there", it's not designed to be basekit counter to a legit strategy. Not to mention that anti-facecamp mechanic usage is prohibited in most tourneys.
Ik the swift teams are getting out of hand and Ik they strengthen these perks for 4 man teams but soloq is getting almost unbearable to play and let's not forget the slugging bit that's been going on for years with so many complaints backing it but I guess respawning the already used hook was a bigger issue even though there's already so many hooks in fact breaking a hook for someone doesn't work a lot of the time because they just take them to a different hook
there are many player related factors other than game balance that get into the equation of why soloQ is unbearable.
In terms of slugging, it was expected to emerge on a top after forcing hooks as the killer has been killed in terms of applying map pressure.
And anyone with the mindset of slugging and camping is in the game so it's perfectly fine no it's not I would hope that people would be decent enough players to let me at least have a little opportunity to get my challenges done and by that I mean I can't do gens or get unhooks or even look for a glyph if I'm the first one found then tunneled out or camped
this is why challenges need to be reworked. People are too focused on them to actually play the game out and improve. As soon as any rift comes, people are 100% focused on challenges and nothing else. Especially hatch challenges
-
@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3879961#Comment_3879961
I cant say you're wrong because I dont have any data on it. Why is this your view of the 'average' player? What has brought you to this conclusion that 90%+ of players have no real insight to 'top tier' comp knowledge?
You're probably right in the mindset. But if someone wanted to learn these things, there's enough info out there and tools in discord to get this going. But… they probably dont most of the time. So this is why I think you're probably more correct than not. Which makes things kind of sad in a whole picture way, imo.
I cant say you're wrong because I dont have any data on it. Why is this your view of the 'average' player? What has brought you to this conclusion that 90%+ of players have no real insight to 'top tier' comp knowledge?
my view of average player is that they view any kind of insane macro skill expression as "sweaty" gameplay and they are refusing to try approaching to that skill level because they think they are "not obligated to", but will still continue to complain about game being xy sided and blame everyone else for a lost match.
You're probably right in the mindset. But if someone wanted to learn these things, there's enough info out there and tools in discord to get this going. But… they probably dont most of the time. So this is why I think you're probably more correct than not. Which makes things kind of sad in a whole picture way, imo.
there is a lot of info online, exactly, but there is also a lot of "corrupted" info many players are picking up, the very recent being True3's videos about "god builds" that revolve around Knock Out, where people are blindly following his tips without ever realizing how Knock Out will never make them a better player, it will only help them obliterate soloQ.
On the other hand, you also have survivor streamers that also don't teach you anything actually productive for macro knowledge. All in all, it's very easy to find "bad" info in terms of learning the game where you won't actually learn anything good.
-
@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3879262#Comment_3879262
there is no point in talking to "casual" players from any of the two roles in this game, since those players have not reached the skill level to actually be competent enough to actually talk about balance.
You make a lot more sense now. So you want the opinion of only like 5-10% of the playerbase? And of that, 1-3% of those who are on this forum?
To each their own. But this is disgusting.
i don't think only opinion of small portion of dbd playerbase should matter necessarily because they are "gods of the game", i think it should be that way because huge majority of the playerbase wants to be trained through a casual way in casual environment, while expecting top-tier competitive results (victory).
Average casual dbd player lacks critical thought and self awareness, two things that are very important in order to engage balance discussions.
Average casual dbd player believes they are casual while deep in their mind, they are competitive, but they are too shy to ever admit that to anyone. Truly 100% casual players don't even care about winning, nor they engage balance discussions at all because they are aware that game is a lot more competitive by nature than average player would ever believe it is.
-
@smurf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3879566#Comment_3879566
But none of that sounds like holding the game hostage in any way. The killer can just find the survivors. I've never had survivors that I didn't find after some minutes.
And my understanding is that holding the game hostage requires that the other players are unable to end the game. I only know of two scenarios where this seems feasible. One is bodyblocking a survivor into a location they can't get away from. Another is carrying a survivor to a corner then repeatedly dropping them, downing them again, and carrying them back to the same location. All other scenarios I can think of in the current game state can be ended by the killer finding the survivors.
If there were a location on a map that the killer couldn't reach, and a survivor just stayed there without doing anything, that would be holding the game hostage. But I've only seen one case of something kind of similar to that, and it was a location where a killer was unable to get the pickup prompt. Is there an official list of the kind of things that qualify as holding the game hostage?
avoiding objectives with an intention to just hide is considered holding the game hostage, and you can stall the game that way fairly easily in a 2v1 standoff. I also remember BHVR officially stating that this kind of gameplay is holding the game hostage
-
@BorisDDAA said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3879692#Comment_3879692
Coldwind, yamaoka, borgos, haddonfield, red forest, some macmillan maps…
Yamaoka was basically not touched when you see how minor changes are,
Borgo is insufferable for both sides,
Red Forest isn't shrunk, but instead visually reworked and made easier for stealthing due to how cluttered is,
Shelter Woods had it's main reworked to suit style of Tools of Torment chapter style, not really shrunk.
-
@BorisDDAA said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3879687#Comment_3879687
Most maps also got completely gutted. Spawning dead zones everywhere to "help" M1 killers but anyone else will just down you in 15 seconds.
only Haddonfield is significantly nerfed from it's previous version, other maps are barely touched at all lol. I love exaggeration