Munqaxus
Munqaxus
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2856328#Comment_2856328
Then rework Boons from the ground up and make them useful while having counterplay. With how Boons currently work, you either get something on the level of CoH or something like Dark Theory.
They need a rework to be reliably strong and counterable.
Scourge Hooks were probably intended to be 'time wasters' for the Killer, as their spawns are random and aren't guaranteed to be the closest possible Hook or even nearby.
They're better as a secondary objective than Boons because they are 'strong' with most of them doing something 'impactful', while working exactly like normal Hooks and having the same counters with a few special ones, like unreliable spawns, sabotaging and breaking for the remainder of the Trial once a Survivor is sacrificed upon a Scourge Hook
The one problem I'm seeing with boons and scourge hooks is that you can only put one powerful ability on either. So it really limits boons and scourge hooks to 1 strong effect and a whole host of useless effects.
I think that's another reason chests feels like a better secondary objective. They don't have stacking effects.
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@PNgamer said:
hey,
I'm afraid the developers seem to be happy with DH, otherwise they would have revised the perk long ago. How many times have you read "finally weakens DH" "removes this and that" "or does something" The reaction? nothing.... nothing happens. What moves me to say, the developers seem to be happy with the perk. I don't know now how much data or how much time it will take for them to finally wake up and see how unhealthy something like this is for the game. Especially with a SWF combined with DS, when the thing is there 4x as well.
No fun, too much frustration, that's all you can say from a killer point of view. Sorry
FINALLY WAKE UP MAN !
A 3 second speed burst when "e" is pushed without being locked into a straight line would be a fair trade-off for the removal of iFrames. Then Dead Hard would be exactly like all the other exhaustion perks.
I honestly don't think Dead Hard out performs other perks in chases currently anyway but changing it so it's exactly like the other exhaustion perks would be fair.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2855238#Comment_2855238
Then they should not put Hag in either.
LOL! I never thought about the Hag being a Blair Witch copycat, since you never see the Blair Witch. I guess she is since she does a symbol similar to the Blair Witch sticks.
They should add shaky cams to survivors when they're running from the Hag.
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
My biggest gripe with Boons is that they're a bandaid fix that can be completely ignored.
Boons were added to act as a secondary objective. That's fine and all but Survivor can just... not equip a Boon Perk and still have no secondary objective, and for them to be used, they need to be better than the current meta, which only CoH is.
The devs would need to add a mandatory secondary objective if they want Survivors off gens, unless they're ok with releasing a Boon Perk on the level of CoH every few months
My opinion would be that a secondary objective needs to be useful enough to winning the game that players will want to perform that secondary objective. However, it can't be required or it becomes a primary objective.
From a game design perspective, I feel like chests tended to be better secondary objectives for survivors, if the developers were wanting to slow down gen speeds. It seemed like killers complained about chests less but survivors were still willing to do them. However, if you throw in the complaints about keys, maybe it wasn't.
I have realized something, if boons were added as "time wasters" for survivors, does that mean that "scourge hooks" were added as time wasters for killers?
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@fulltonon said:
Like, this is supposed to be team game, and "solo q" is almost always lacking teamwork which SWF can easily have, suffering of solo que is problem of it's own and nothing should be changed according to them, except solo q experience itself.
You should really edit your original post, above. It hardly makes any sense. What are you trying to say?
DBD is balanced around SBMMR and the stats they get from SBMMR which includes solo queue and SWF players. Are you saying BHVR should exclude all matches that have solo queue players in them, when looking at data?
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@DemonDaddy said:
Intended or not boon coh has only become a second objective for killers. The amount of killer time and pressure lost to this perk coupled with it's team wide utility more than makes up for the setup.
Think about this outside of boon totems. Again, I'm not calling for nerfs or buffs to boons, I'm presenting this as a thought experiement.
Can you have a secondary objective for survivors that does not also affect killers. Remember, these secondary objectives need to be valuable enough to survivors for them to consider it helpful for winning the game, so any secondary objective has to also affect killers winning the game.
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@fulltonon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2854623#Comment_2854623
Probably we have to go punishment way I guess, those two secondary objectives are almost akin to win button, aka main objective.
Like, if side objective give you advantage which makes generators more efficient, what's the point of it? it's basically main objective with different skin.
I would disagree.
- The chest secondary objective was never an "I win" meta. If you actually looked at the data, previously, keys only raised the chance individual survivors would escape by about 2 percent, which was enough for survivors to search chests. Once keys were basically removed, chest searching became a defunct "secondary objective" because 1 out of every 4 items is worthless now, maybe 1 out of every 2 items is worthless if you include flashlights. This also removed all of the chest perks from rotation too. I bet if you actually looked at the data, you would see that survivor escape rates actually went up after keys were removed, because survivors no longer wasted time searching chests and no longer wasted perk slots on chest searching perks. I know I completely quit and I use to love using plunders instinct. Also, once keys were removed, survivors started bring in more toolboxes and medkits which also contributed to more group wins.
- The CoH secondary objective, is also not an "I win" meta. Because CoH is valuable enough to survivors to use, survivors now use their time to bless totems instead of focusing gens. I would love to see the data, but I bet gen speeds have slowed down somewhat after the introduction of CoH. I don't see CoH uses that much in my games, so I'm not sure if it's affecting gen speeds to much. Also, you have to remember, survivors don't need CoH, if it's not good enough to be needed, survivors are going to switch back to doing gens instead of secondary objectives. It's a fine line.
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@drsoontm said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2854725#Comment_2854725
And so you outed yourself as part of that minority players who thinks there are two camps and plays one role only.
Usually players play both roles. That's also how they are generally better than the ones who limits themselves.
I just love going against Nurse. It's so much fun countering her and exploiting her many weaknesses. Of course I know how she works and I like a challenge. (I used to love going against Spirit too but she is rare now, and the mind-games have gone.)
If Nurse is so busted, why don't you show us? Take her for a spin, win a lot of games, reach high MMR* and show us how you win almost every time. (I'm not holding my breath.)
When your first sentence is completely wrong and everything after it completely relies on that first argument. Yeah, that's exactly what happened to you.
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"Calling out contradictions and Flimsy arguments", you say. Let me quote two of your arguments...
wrong.
That's literally all you said to 2 of my arguments. You don't even have arguments. You aren't even able to articulate why I'm wrong and the only argument you were able to articulate basically agreed with me, the argument about perk synergies.
What you are doing is called "Projecting". Basically you are attributing to me of making flimsy arguments when it's actually you that doesn't seem to be able to form a substantial argument. Why do you even write responses unless you are going to take the time to present your opinion better.
I love debating and I'm willing to change my opinion if you can present valid points. But you aren't.
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@ProfSinful said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2853392#Comment_2853392
- wrong.
- wrong. He has a higher skill ceiling than nurse because of bump logic, and the inability to run loops as killer normally will make him even more difficult to learn.
- yes, and that's fine. there will always be a best in that category, and that isn't a problem.
- Map control and mobility go hand in hand and again, that's fine. You just enjoy abusing huge maps and holding shift+W against normal m1 killers and don't wanna learn to play around it.
- That's hilariously false. A large group of decent perks in the game can't effectively be used by blight as they require basic attacks which he typically doesn't use. (Ruin/Pop/Tinkerer/Corrupt doesn't count because that's a good synergy on every killer)
- Again, that's fine. Learn to play around it. Killers have had to play around the same survivor strategies for YEARS without those strategies EVER being changed, you can do the same.
- You've clearly never played blight if this is your opinion, period. The amount of understanding of tiles, bump logic, and collision for EVERY map object alone makes his power have one of the highest skill ceilings in the game.
- High skill floor/ceiling powers should be powerful. Why should a difficult to use power be bad...wouldn't that lead to the killer being treated like a second Twins?
- You literally contradicted your 7th point with this one. If a power is difficult to use at a tile, then it is not an easy to use power. That's like saying huntress' power is easy to use because it's easy to hit a survivor standing in the open, or that killers are too fast because they can catch you in a dead zone. This is such backwards logic.
You say it's stupid how strong blight is compared to the other killers when in reality, it's stupid how weak many of the other killers are compared to blight at high mmr. The sooner you realize it's not a blight being too strong issue and it's a "the other killers are too weak" problem, the sooner you'll be able to formulate better opinions.
wrong.
I main Sadako, Freddy, Trapper, Plague, Hag, Pinhead, Billy, Twins and have dabbled in all the others. Blight is easy to use and easy to learn except for Wraith. Sure there are little techniques that make him even more insanely powerful but you don't need them. If you think Dead Hard is overpowered then there's no way you can't think Blight with 5 Dead Hards isn't anything but easy. All the other killers I main are way harder, I'd love to see you play any of the ones I main and then say they're easier than Blight.
That's hilariously false. A large group of decent perks in the game can't effectively be used by blight as they require basic attacks which he typically doesn't use. (Ruin/Pop/Tinkerer/Corrupt doesn't count because that's a good synergy on every killer)
No, it's not false at all. Who in their right mind is going to use "decent" perks when the perks you named "Ruin/Pop/Tinkerer/Corrupt" are the game winning perks. Blight synergizes with the best killer perks better than any other killer in the game.
No one could give a flying-flip if Blight can't use Coup-de-Grace and Franklin's Demise. Those "basic attack" perks aren't perks you use to win a game. I can't even think of a "basic attack" perk that is even meta. What a stupid argument.
You've clearly never played blight if this is your opinion, period. The amount of understanding of tiles, bump logic, and collision for EVERY map object alone makes his power have one of the highest skill ceilings in the game.
High skill floor/ceiling powers should be powerful. Why should a difficult to use power be bad...wouldn't that lead to the killer being treated like a second Twins?
Yes, I have played Blight and Blight is fun to play because he's overpowered.
Twins is a powerful killer and is one of the best killers in the game. She's difficult to use but can still win high end games. You want a easy to use wrecking ball that no can stand against.
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@adam1233467 said:
Every time I hear the nurse's blink, someone from my team disconnects and I have to kill myself on the hook, and I go to the next match, and guess what, it's another nurse. (I love going against nurse but apparently my team doesn't like it) and when one of my team does not disconnect, she is using double range, literally you have nothing to do. I never thought it would be so boring to play against a nurse...
I love looking at the replies to this thread. You know exactly who the Killer players pretending to be survivor players are.
On another note, I have a feeling the Nurse will be a self-correcting problem. Nurse is becoming a defunct killer because survivors are no longer willing to go against her.
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@Friendly_Blendette said:
Myers imo.
It's definitely not Myers. I don't know if I would even put him in the middle at this point because his addons are so crazy powerful.
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@GoshJosh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2854662#Comment_2854662
I've been playing since 2016, doesn't mean my opinions on the game are always right and I'm never wrong. People are also allowed to hold varying views on a video game without one side necessarily being right or wrong.
It's pretty weird people have a grievance against a killer whose primary power is chase, while camping Bubba and Hag exist in the game. Isn't that what people want, exciting chases and interaction with the killer? People seriously commenting on these forums 'I would rather face camping Bubba than Nurse'. Wow, such exhilarating trials!
I'd rather not have either because both are bad and both need to be reworked.
It would be in the benefit of both the Leatherface players and Nurse players to have both of them reworked because survivors are just going to default suicide when getting those 2 killers. So eventually both of those killers will be defunct just for the fact no one will play against them.
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@GoshJosh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2853929#Comment_2853929
- Stealth
- Mind games
- Exhaustion perks
- Lockers
- Flashlights (ligtburn)
- Heck, even the occasional perfectly timed pallet drop
That’s six defenses right there, plus I’m sure someone else can chime in some more.
Edit: flashlights.
@Pulsar has been a primary Killer-player for ever. If he's saying there's an issue there's an issue. In fact, I'm pretty sure everyone on this board knows that Nurse is seriously broken. Saying she isn't is just dishonest.
Survivors are consistently suiciding when they get nurses. I guess we can leave her as is and let everyone just suicide to her if that's what you want.
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@Altarf said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2853353#Comment_2853353
Because weak/inexperienced/uncoordinated survivors can't deal with slowdown powers. That's why Freddy, Pig and Pinhead are all so high in the killrates despite all being weaker killers. All three of these killers have a passive slowdown tool which doesn't require any investment to activate, but the rest of their power sucks - and on top of that, good survivors can make each slowdown power a joke if they have even some experience with facing the killer.
Bad survivors don't know how to deal with Pinhead's box, so they leave it alone, and then he wins through passive Chain Hunt. Not from skill with the killer, but by survivor incompetence. They either don't know what it is and just ignore it, or they know what it is and think "wait, this box makes the killer teleport to me, I don't want that to happen" or "I don't want to drop my item" or "someone else will do it." His "strength" is purely up to survivors with handling his power. Just play him against experienced survivors - not even super good ones - and you'll see how his power falls apart very easily.
Also, killrates are not a good way of judging killer strength, as has been repeated a thousand times. By killrates, Nurse, Trickster and Twins are the weakest killers in the game, and Pig and Freddy are some of the strongest. According to the stats, Myers is more powerful than Nurse and Huntress - and by a long shot. They're not accurate.
It's accurate, you just haven't taken the time to understand what it's measuring. Those stats are across all levels of play.
There has not been data showing the stats across different levels of play. If there was, I'm sure you would see Nurse having consistent 4 escapes at low levels of play. Mostly 4 escapes at mid levels of play. Then consistence 4 kills at high levels of play.
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@Araphex said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2852561#Comment_2852561
Speed of healing (Circle of Healing is faster than medkits) and the amount that can be placed is an issue. Try going against 3 circle of healing on a map with exponential on 2. Killer hexes don't even get to be out back up when destroyed.
You listed a bunch of perks, but right now we just have COH meta, because all it takes is 9 seconds to heal another player without other perk buffs.
The problem is trying to balance a game that should never had been balanced to begin with. Killer should always be meta over survivor. But we have so many Exhaustion perks now, plus healing perks, not so good gen perks, it's just I don't think the killer's are getting as much care as they should. Every killer I come across is running an anti gen rush build because that's all they have.
I think there needs to be better communication with the community than just listening to a bunch of entitled, sore losers complaining all the time because it's lead to Meta heal with just 1 simple perk. Not 4 different types of playstyles as you mentioned. We are the ones playing and we make the overall decision of the direction of the game. I'd hate to see such a great game go in the toilet because the devs are refusing an actual discussion and critique from their own consumers. What makes a great game? The players do and right now it's pretty toxic. I'd love to see more than you or Peanits get involved in discussion. Thus game should never have been turned into a competitive game. That's what wrought the meta healing and other meta stuff that just doesn't need to be in the game at all. I hope you take this into consideration and I'm always open to chatting or clearing up anything.
You missed her entire point.
- Killers wanted slower gen speeds.
- The developers gave killers slower gen speeds by adding a secondary objective (Boon Totems)
- Survivors are only going to do secondary objectives if it's in the Survivors interest to do them. Hence, CoH has to be better than Self Care or survivors will not do them. (No one in upper levels of play uses Self Care because it's not good, it's a noob trap).
- If CoH is nerfed, gen speeds will get done faster because survivors will stop blessing totems and stop healing.
It's the exact same thing that happened to Chests. Chests use to be a secondary objective but after keys were nerfed, Chests and Chest perks became essentially "dead perks". Gen speeds increased because everyone just ignores chests now.
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@Paozilla said:
You literally just need to nerf alchemists ring and he's pretty much fine.
His basekit is the problem, alchemist ring is just icing on the cake.
Blight is the killer that has everything.
- One of the easiest killers to use
- One of the easiest killers to learn
- Best mobility of all the killers
- Best map control of all the killers
- Best perk synergies of all the killers
- One of the best down potentials of all the killers.
- One of the easiest powers to use.
- One of the most powerful power to use. (It's basically a 5 use Dead Hard)
- The only thing he doesn't excel at is his power is more difficult to use in loops. But you compare that to all the M1 killers, who have no anti-looping powers and he's still better than most of the killers even at this.
It's stupid how strong Blight is compared to the other killers.
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@Ravio_Li said:
Then just do better in chases? If survivors are healing, then don't do a hit and run tactic? Commit to a chase and hook them?
Healing is only strong when the killer allows it to happen. Commit to the chase, or interrupt them while healing.
Also: If healing becomes unworth it to do, we'll get on gens. Maybe Resilience which will make it even stronger.
Meaning: Stop hit and dipping. Just commit to chases. Or play one tap killers like Billy and Bubba. Or play killers with strong chases, like Nurse.
Also about Sadoko, she's really good at mindgames with teleporting. It doesn't have to be a hit and dip.
It's funny that Killers want gen speeds to be slower, yet secondary objectives like chests and healing were put into the game to do exactly that and killers requests chests "Keys" be nerfed into uselessness, which they were and now no one does chests, making gen speeds faster. Now the exact same thing is happening with healing.
Killer do realize the developers added boon totems as secondary objectives to slow down gen speeds, right? The "only" boon totem worth blessing is CoH. Survivors aren't going to do secondary objectives unless they are worthwhile to do.
BTW, the funny thing about key's being nerfed is that it increased toolboxes being used, speeding up gens.
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@DbD_Enjoyer said:
Not only that but he also made me "equip" 2 of the same Huntress addons, even tho i was playing Sadako, is it a new thing new? I had some GTA Online feels where hackers can make u look like one even tho u are a legit player.
Yep, unfortunately. I had a hacker that kept insta-healing me every time the killer downed me. The hacker wasn't around me, so I'm sure it looked like I was cheating. I guess luckily, the cheater was doing it to other team mates too.
I stayed in the match at EGC to give the killer the kill but then the hacker, hooked herself in mid air in the exit gate and the game wouldn't end. I assume the killer eventually quit. (I stayed and watched the game after my character died).
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@Plu said:
Wait he's good now? I tought everyone called him trash months ago? Also i never see him so i have no idea how he is to go against.
He's consistently had the highest kill rate I think. Based on the developers info they released. Also, if you check the 'unofficial' stats page, he's top there also.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
I think this is new meta against Nurse? I wanna play normal games. I don't know what i have to do after someone suicide. I can not let others go every time because it becoming boring. And plus it was not my fault.
And i don't even need to mention "I am trash killer because i played with op killer"
Removing suicides on hook should remove from game, seriously. If people have not this chance, they will play normal. Maybe first week they will troll or stay afk but then game will back to normal. And this will be good for game healthy.
When players don't feel as if they don't stand a chance, they are going to suicide on hook.
Most survivors, justifiably, see Nurse as a no-win situation. You can tell if it's a good Nurse by just listening to the number of times she blinked before downing a survivor. I think most survivors know that if a Nurse has downed 2 survivors in the first minute with like 3 blinks then you're just going to lose that game.
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@Sludge said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2853203#Comment_2853203
I have over 3000 hours in this game, I rarely ever see Pig and only once have I seen a Pig using this gimmick. Non issue.
Nobody is quitting because of it, they're leaving because the game is an unbalanced mess and the game play is nightmarish in high MMR.
There are certain stages of interaction that developers will have time to do. Think of it like an inverted pyramid.
- Content Creation - This is where BHVR is spending all of it's time and effort, think of the release of Sadako, Freddy, Michael Myers, etc. This is happening immediately. This is the largest part of the pyramid.
- Game Changing Issues - This is where BHVR spends the the next largest amount of time and effort. Think of SBMMR, Killers getting stuck in pallets, Unbreakable Boon Totems.
- Bugs - Think of none game changing bugs, such as Pig being able to sit AFK and kill 4 players. No time or effort is being spent here.
- Finally Balance Changes - This is where Monstrous Shrine is buffed. This is the tip of the pyramid. If the developers don't have time to fix bugs, they sure as heck aren't going to make buffs and nerfs.
What I'm saying is that you aren't going to get buffs and nerfs if all of the developers time is drying up before it can even hit the other stages of interaction.
So you should be asking the developers to set aside time for bugs, so they spare time after fixing bugs can be used to work on balance changes.
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@nikodemo said:
They need to hire better ppl for the balance team. Ppl like Otz.
This I whole-heartedly agree with. Get 3 or 4 people that play both sides, survivor and killer, as advisors, such as Otz, Scott Jund, etc etc. Only do balance recommendations from those advisors.
Maybe limit the amount of changes per patch to 10 or less.
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@Sludge said:
It's a non issue, the killer is losing the game on purpose in an incredibly niche scenario.
All the meta perks need to be nerfed, maps need to be rebalanced, generator speeds need to be addressed and boons need to be removed.
If something like an AFK killer being able to kill 4 players shouldn't be addressed. The I guarantee that meta perks, map rebalanced, generator speeds and boons shouldn't be addressed either.
Do you think the developers are going to be proactive with balance changes when they aren't even making the effort to address bugs.
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@GoshJosh said:
Killer complaint: Dead Hard is a second chance crutch perk that artificially extends chases and corrects mistakes.
Blight with five rush tokens and Alchemist Ring: exists.
Don't see how you can be ok with one of these things and not the other.
It's basically 5 blink nurse, except she can refill all of her blinks if she hits you.
They need to reduce the number of rushes he can store and rework alchemist ring. Maybe slow down the regeneration of rushes.
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@YOURFRIEND said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2852988#Comment_2852988
Shadow step is hugely underrated imo.
It's under-rated but... with survivor perks being at a premium, using it is reducing your chances of winning as a survivor because there are other perks that help you more in a match.
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@Okonar_ said:
So what is your opinion on her so far? As a survivor perspective
As a person that plays both sides, from a killer perspective. I'm having a lot more fun playing her than I originally thought I would. At first I thought she was a Freddy knock-off. She is, in a way. I think the nuance is with the condemnation interaction that Freddy doesn't have. It's a much more fun mechanic for me.
I do think Sadako players should be able to see the condemnation status so they can make more informed decisions. That's the only buff I would give her.
Also, her new skin sucks.
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2852837#Comment_2852837
No offense taken.
Dead Hard is different from a free health state. When you are hit and lose a health state, you get a 2 or 3 second speed boost and have maneuverability during that speed boost. When you exaggerate, the people on the other-side of the argument see this as an exaggeration and tend to ignore the argument because they feel as if you really don't have anything backing your statements since you resorted to exaggerating.
Alright, no exaggerating. Dead Hard is an Exhaustion Perk able to give you free, controllable distance on command with no drawbacks.
Sort of. Lithe, Balanced Landing and Sprint Burst can also be activated by specific player input. Sprint Burst is exactly like Dead Hard in this aspect because it requires you to press a button (The shift button) just like Dead Hard (The active button). However, I don't see how this is a problem in the first place, different perks are activated differently. Just because 2 of the exhaustion perks require an activation key doesn't make them better or worse than other perks. It only makes them different.
Lithe is probably some of the best balanced Exhaustion Perks in the game. It require player interaction and decision making. Use the speed boost but give up a tile or continue looping and give up the speed boost. Sprint Burst is more similar to Lithe in that regard.
Different is good. What's not good is having a Perk with no interaction or decision making being better than a Perk that does something similar.
This is an opinion, there's really no way to measure this. For me, Sprint Burst and Overcome and much less risky and much higher rewards because they cannot be baited out or missed. They always work.
Dead Hard can't be baited out. I know it's hard for you to believe but trust me, it's easy to use it properly so you don't get baited.
I believe you are saying that if a survivor makes a mistake during a chase, they have the option to use Dead Hard. I agree. Yes a survivor would have 1 chance to correct a mistake made in a chase. It doesn't render mind-games useless, because the survivor still needs to use Dead Hard, so your mind-game draws out a Dead Hard.
It did render the mindgame useless. You would've downed them, now you gotta start a whole nother chase with them.
I just don't understood this argument. No exhaustion perk use for distance is able to be countered.
There's a whole difference between Dead Hard distance and the distance of other Exhaustion Perks. Most of them either deny chase or end chase, Dead Hard extends chases by 30 seconds minimum.
These arguments make more sense to me. The only one that kind of bothers me is the...
Alright, no exaggerating. Dead Hard is an Exhaustion Perk able to give you free, controllable distance on command with no drawbacks.
When I see this, I think that a survivor does have to be injured to be able to use it. It might be me being nitpicky.
Dead Hard can't be baited out. I know it's hard for you to believe but trust me, it's easy to use it properly so you don't get baited.
I'll trust you on this because I'm sure I don't play killer on the same level as you since I split up between survivor and killer. So I'm assuming I'm going against survivors who don't use it as good.
I don't know if this is really a problem since other exhaustion perks would be similar with skilled survivors. In this, I mean a skilled survivor would be just as hard to bait out a Sprint Burst as a Dead Hard. I'm not even sure having the ability to be baited out is enough to matter in the grand scheme of things.
There's a whole difference between Dead Hard distance and the distance of other Exhaustion Perks. Most of them either deny chase or end chase, Dead Hard extends chases by 30 seconds minimum
I think your last two arguments come down the same thing, the argument above. If the developers listened to the forums, I think this would be the best argument for getting Dead Hard nerfed. If it's actually extending chases an additional 30 seconds or so, compared to the other exhaustion perks, then I would definitely say it needs a nerf, as a developer.
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@MrDardon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2852397#Comment_2852397
You don't seem to understand what "fundementally broken" means.
Spirit isn't "broken" after her nerfs. The Nurse's ability to completely negate loops is "broken" and I don't think she can be fixed without removing the ability to teleport through walls and even then, she may still be "broken", just because she can still use teleports within the confines of a loop to still, pretty much negate loops.
Everything about the Blight is the best in the game; ease to use, ease to learn, mobility, catching up to survivors, map control, perk synergy. His power is not even fully negated in loops, so you can't even say that's a downside. However, it is weaker than some killers but still better than most killers since most killers powers don't work in loops at all.
I would consider Blight "broken" because his abilities, when compared to other killers are the best. His anti-looping ability is the only thing he's not the best at, just better than most. It's like a student in school making all A+'s and is making an A- in math.
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2852590#Comment_2852590
People want it nerfed because:
-it grants a free Health State, which no other Exhaustion Perk grants
-it can be activated whenever, unlike any other Exhaustion Perk
-Dead Hard Validation straight up denies Killer Powers (confirmed to be a bug)
-it probably has the lowest risk-highest reward among Exhaustion Perks
-renders mindgames useless, unlike any other Exhaustion Perk
-using Dead Hard for distance is uncounterable
If there is sound logic to your arguments, I am willing to change my opinion and even more so if there was data (which I think would be easy enough to gather).
I want you to understand where I'm coming from. I play both sides but tend to play survivor slightly more than killer because my friends generally want to play, otherwise I would play more killer. When I play survivor, I don't use Dead Hard because I think Sprint Burst and Overcome are superior because they give more speed burst time and you can control the direction of your speed burst, unlike Dead Hard.
When I make these counter statements to your arguments, I'm not making them to be mean or because I care about Dead Hard being nerfed. I am making them because I don't understand the logic behind these arguments. I also doubt anything I say on these forums will do anything to what the developers are planning. I doubt they even read these forums, judging by how bad the game design is right now.
-it grants a free Health State, which no other Exhaustion Perk grants
Dead Hard is different from a free health state. When you are hit and lose a health state, you get a 2 or 3 second speed boost and have maneuverability during that speed boost. When you exaggerate, the people on the other-side of the argument see this as an exaggeration and tend to ignore the argument because they feel as if you really don't have anything backing your statements since you resorted to exaggerating.
-it can be activated whenever, unlike any other Exhaustion Perk
Sort of. Lithe, Balanced Landing and Sprint Burst can also be activated by specific player input. Sprint Burst is exactly like Dead Hard in this aspect because it requires you to press a button (The shift button) just like Dead Hard (The active button). However, I don't see how this is a problem in the first place, different perks are activated differently. Just because 2 of the exhaustion perks require an activation key doesn't make them better or worse than other perks. It only makes them different.
-Dead Hard Validation straight up denies Killer Powers (confirmed to be a bug)
So this is a bug that will be hopefully be fixed at some point. I don't understand how this matters in an argument for buffing or nerfing anything.
-it probably has the lowest risk-highest reward among Exhaustion Perks
This is an opinion, there's really no way to measure this. For me, Sprint Burst and Overcome and much less risky and much higher rewards because they cannot be baited out or missed. They always work.
-renders mindgames useless, unlike any other Exhaustion Perk
I believe you are saying that if a survivor makes a mistake during a chase, they have the option to use Dead Hard. I agree. Yes a survivor would have 1 chance to correct a mistake made in a chase. It doesn't render mind-games useless, because the survivor still needs to use Dead Hard, so your mind-game draws out a Dead Hard.
If you refine this argument more to show why this means Dead Hard needs to be nerfed maybe gather data.
-using Dead Hard for distance is uncounterable
I just don't understood this argument. No exhaustion perk use for distance is able to be countered.
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Again, I'm trying to understand why Dead Hard out of the other exhaustion perks is in need of a nerf. None of the arguments I've seen against Dead Hard hold much weight as an argument.
To me personally, it seems like there are some killer-players that are bothered by Dead Hard because it is such an in-your-face perk. I think killer-players are noticing Dead Hard because it's similar to a big-flashing-sign; you "see" it because it's used in close chases. If these killer-players took a step back and analyzed it compared to other exhaustion perks, I think they would be surprised at home much more chase times are extended with the other exhaustion perks.
This is only my opinion from what I'm seeing on the forums because I'm not seeing compelling evidence or arguments that suggest otherwise.
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I presented an argument that close-proximity-camping is rewarded in game. A lot of people disagreed, so I did 40 games close-proximity-camping and presented the evidence on the boards. It feels as if this is something that people are so polarized on, that it would be worthwhile to do testing on.
Instead of the daily "Dead Hard" forum post with arguments that don't really hold any weight, why not actually do something that someone will pay attention to.
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@Mandy said:
I remember when healing was nerfed - it gave birth to the Resiliance, Spine Chill, Iron Will, Adrenaline meta and I believe it most definitely gave rise to what we now refer to as "gen rushing". Prior to that, Survivors would spend more time healing but this change showed survivors that they were wasting time healing and focus the generators instead. Survivors adapted to the changes and developed a new meta basically, which is something that will always happen.
I don't mind survivors healing, as I know that's less time they're spending on gens. Speed of healing could possibly be an issue - super fast medkits etc, but I do not think healing itself is the biggest issue.
The problem is that survivors will ignore healing completely and rush gens even faster if healing is useless. Look at chests, they use to be secondary objectives but since keys have become useless, no one wastes time on chest. Plunder's Instinct, Pharmacy, Ace in the Hole and Appraisal have become dead perks because they aren't worth the time spent open chests because 1 in 4 items in a chest are useless (keys), maybe even 1 in 2 items in a chest if you include flashlights.
You can't have a secondary objective if it's not worth the survivors time to do the secondary objective.
If healing is nerfed, then I guarantee that gen times are going to become faster because survivors won't waste their time healing.
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@NekoGamerX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2851061#Comment_2851061
true and like all endurance perks you have to do something to get that distance
Sprint Burst don't run till needed
Lithe performing a rushed vault
Balanced Landing When falling from great heights
Overcome getting hit by the killer
but Dead hard it just a press of the button oh and you got to be injured🙄
so yea Dead hard for distance need to go or be shortened by a lot.
So each endurance perk, including Dead Hard, need to be activated somehow. This means Dead Hard needs to be nerfed.
I'm so glad the developers don't listen to these forums except to amuse themselves, some of the most over-the-top things are said on here. I would have sworn this post was satire it's so self-unaware.
This post, and other posts like it on this threat, is the reason Dead Hard isn't going to be nerfed. No one who wants it nerfed can articulate why they want it nerfed.
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@BenZ0 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2851416#Comment_2851416
How do you want to target specific condemned survivors if they dont even get to a higher stage of it? Its really hard to condemned survivors, the addon I mentioned does it easier but it is not okey that a addon makes a very underwhelming mechanic playable.
I killed 3 people with condemned last Sadako game I had. It's not as weak as you think it is.
Admittedly, I usually only get 1 person every other game. I consider it more of a generator slow down ability than something I'm going to get consistently. However, being able to target survivors would make it much stronger.
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@BenZ0 said:
The green addon which gives a survivor who completed a heal action one condemned as base kit.
The thing that makes her weak is the easy counter to her hit and run gameplay which is just to heal up really quick. Especially since CoH exists its even weaker and gives the Onryo barely any pressure. However if this addon would be baseline to her there would be a point to keep going with the hit and run gameplay cuz you can build up condemned and therefore pressure/slowdown which is imo a really cool mechanic and adds also some kind of strategic teamplay against her, with this you cannot just brain dead heal up every time against her with your team.
I disagree.
The only thing Sadako needs is the ability to see each survivors condemned stage. That would allow her to target survivors more strategically. Otherwise, I think she's in a decent spot.
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@CrashMADDS13 said:
Because it's very gratifying to win as a weak killer against cocky survivors. Surely you'd also celebrate your underdog victory from time to time?
I thought Sadako was weak when I first played her and asked for buffs on her. However, after playing her a bit, I think she's a lot stronger than people think. She's not Blight or Nurse but she's alright.
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2851139#Comment_2851139
Again. Whatever helps you sleep at night. Your fallacy of "I pLaY bOtH sIdEs. ItS nOt A pRoBlEm" is hilarious. Go ahead and tell me how you bait out the dead hard for distance as they make it to a way to strong main building window. Let us know how you bait out that dead hard to a god pallet they would NOT of made it to otherwise.
On second thought. Don't. I really don't care about your responses that are clearly meant to be as bait-y sluzzys. Or are just so skewed to the survivor side. That you have 0 clue what is actually healthy for the game.
When I play Killer, I don't have issues with Dead Hard. I don't know why you do but if you want me to watch your game play, I can probably help you figure it out.
Since the developers have said that the kills to escape ratio for killers is hovering around 50%, I assume that you are getting much lower than a 50% kill ratio because of your inexperience with Dead Hard, which could definitely cause frustration. There's a lot of good videos that inexperienced killer players can watch to help them learn more of the simplistic aspects of the game.
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2851035#Comment_2851035
I mean. Whatever your survivor bias tells you and helps you sleep at night. Most people have no problem admitting dead hard for distance is a problem. Good try trying to act like the distance from Sprint burst, lithe, balanced landing is the same as the distance for dead hard. We all know why dead hard is THE chosen exhaustion.
Why would distance from Sprint Burst, Lithe, Balanced Landing or Overcome any different than distance from Dead Hard. I play both sides and it amazes me that Killer-mains are so hung up on Dead Hard. As a Killer, Dead Hard is a none issue for me. You can literally bait it out. Heck, if you don't bait it out, it's still a much shorter speed burst than any of the other endurance perks. As a survivor, I just don't use it, I find Sprint Burst just a much better endurance perk. Or Overcome.
I guess your "survivor bias" strawman fell apart pretty quickly.
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/314324/dead-hard-for-distance
Both things ARE a problem. As someone who loves killers like blight or billy. Too many times in coming around the corner at a loop (let's say shack) and I called what they're doing correctly. Here I come for a hit...Only to be "outplayed" I frames are every bit as big of a problem as the distance.
This is a ridiculous statement. If this statement were true then every endurance perk is a problem because they all give you distance.
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@The_Krapper said:
Considering the best survivors don't even use COH it really won't do much anyway, the only people who use it are the ones who don't feel comfortable working injured and you start trading health states for pallets and teammates getting hook states mean while no gens pop, circle of healing can be strong in certain scenarios but most of the time it's just stalling the game out because everyone is constantly running back to the boon to reset instead of committing to a gen
I think this is exactly what is happening. Healing is a time waster for good players. The teams I play with that end up self-healing at CoH, lose the match. The players that heal other players end up winning games. I find that I win more matches when I don't self-heal at CoH and get a teammate to heal me.
I think inexperienced Killers are blaming coh, when it's really time management on the killers part.
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@Starr43 said:
I’ll stop using DH when:
- Bloodlust is removed
- SC/Resilience is no longer a necessity to not get screwed at a pallet or window vault
- I stop getting outplayed and have to panic DH🤣
I don’t see any of those things changing, especially #3 so DH is fine lol!
Amen to #2. All the times I'm shown safely on the other-side of a window and then all the sudden I'm hit.
What gets me the most is there's always this "Dead Hard" has to be nerfed yet no one has yet to present any data at all suggesting why it needs nerfed. I tired of seeing the same old tired "nerf dead hard" threads.
Here was the argument for Dead Hard being nerfed from the original poster.
"Dead Hard OP Please Nerf".
That's it. He didn't even take time to write something in the comment field. It's just a stupid "Dead Hard OP Please Nerf" in the title. That's it. What is this poster expecting to happen, the developers to nerf Dead Hard because he took 5 seconds to write Dead Hard OP.
Literally no argument. This is about the laziest thing I've ever seen. They should just delete this post it's such a waste of effort.
Oh, and the poster has only made 1 comment in his entire time here.
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@DyingWish92 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2848505#Comment_2848505
And if you are pressed for time and they dead hard to the God pallet then what? Guess you lose.
If Dead Hard was the only exhaustion perk that will get you to a god pallet, then you would be right. However, there are numerous exhaustion perks that will get you to the same god pallet.
Dead Hard does not exist in a vacuum, there are 4 more exhaustion perks that all extend chases (And 2 additional crappy exhaustion perks, for a total of 6). In fact, I would argue those other 4 exhaustion perks extend chases more than Dead Hard because they give more speed burst than Dead Hard.
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@Holylock said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2849403#Comment_2849403
Yeah, but wraith was never an oppressive killer even with previous buff
The developers felt he was oppressive enough that he needed nerfs.
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@Xord said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2845059#Comment_2845059
Wraith was considered rthe worst killer by most high players. At least in the top 3.
Good players don't care if a killer is easy or hard to play. If you're a very good players with thousands of hours, every killer is simple to use.
An easy killer in the hands of an expert is oppressive.
Wraith is the simplest killer to use in the entire game. If Wraith was made to be harder to use, then I think it would be fine if he was buffed.
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@Marc_123 said:
Hm. She did pretty well in the last matches i had.
Some people buy stuff because it looks nice or is fun. Not everybody needs new meta perks.
Some take the game way too serious.
After playing her a bit, she seems ok. I do think she needs a slight but, in the ability to see condemned stacks so you can be more targeted with her. Sadako's scourge hook perk will probably need to be nerfed.
I do still think her survivor perks are absolutely horrid. Maybe not as bad as Jane Romero's, but definitely in need of buffs.
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@SuzuKR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2845157#Comment_2845157
Sorry, but this is just wrong. Even in comp, people regularly escape Blight. If you remove all restrictions, people STILL regularly escape Blight. On an actually even map for him (eg, Blood Lodge) his average is still only 2K.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2845231#Comment_2845231
You mean the stats BHVR themselves literally always gives as a disclaimer literally any time they post kill rates that people shouldn’t use in arguments of any kind, because there’s dozens of factors that contribute to the stats? What they posted was all games on all regions, which completely removes any distinctions of what specific factors do. You know, the stats BHVR themselves said they dislike posting cause people always take them out of context when there is no usable context for them because it doesn’t control for any factor?
If you want to see the impact of something, you have to control for those variables, and even then, correlation is not causation. The kill rates BHVR posts controls for literally nothing.
You mean the stats BHVR themselves literally always gives as a disclaimer literally any time they post kill rates that people shouldn’t use in arguments of any kind, because there’s dozens of factors that contribute to the stats? What they posted was all games on all regions, which completely removes any distinctions of what specific factors do. You know, the stats BHVR themselves said they dislike posting cause people always take them out of context when there is no usable context for them because it doesn’t control for any factor?
I was in another conversation with another user. A user that said that he loses to survivors using tinkerer and ruin, and because of that survivors needs nerfs. Because that was a bad argument, I mentioned the current killer stats because I didn't feel like even justifying the argument because it was bad.
Then you came in and took this quote out of context because you thought I was arguing for killer nerfs across the board I guess?
I'm not arguing for killer nerfs across the board. In fact I think there are killers than can be buffed and killers that can be nerfed. Sadako needs buffed, Blight needs nerfed in my opinion. Twins need to be changed so they don't feel so clunky.
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@eaebree said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2845214#Comment_2845214
You dont have an idea or you get potatos to vs i still lose with that build survivors needs nerfs not killers
The current killer stats released by the BHVR developers is showing every killer slightly above a 50% kill rate or better, depending on the killer.
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@eaebree said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2845157#Comment_2845157
Yes only with certian build you get a chance against good survivors try somethint chill and you will lose badly 🙃
That's the problem. Blight is able to use that Tinkerer-Ruin build and is basically unstoppable. I can play perkless and add-on-less and not get the kill-rate with Blight that I can with those perks. But the game isn't balanced around perkless and add-on-less Blight, it s balanced around Tinkerer-Ruin Blight.
But again, perk-less base-kit Blight is as good as 90% of killers with add-ons. That's a problem.
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@Starrseed said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2845049#Comment_2845049
Ah yes the good old "I play a alot xy and that's why I am right" it's the best friend of "I'm at high mmr so I know what I'm talking about". First of all I never believe such statements because you hear them from guys like sluzzy and that guy is bonkers. And second just no. Just because you play something a lot doesn't make you an expert on how things should be its the same like all the guys repeat all that comes from otz like its in the holy book. Blight is strong that is true but he is not to strong. He is at a good level where you feel like you can compete against survivors that are equal to you. Most killer we have are to weak and need a buff to come closer to blight. If you really play as much killer as you say you would think the same. It's bad balancing that almost all killer in this game get left behind the more your skill advances and the higher you get in mmr. There is a reason why only a hand full of killer get played by the top knotch of players and if blight is so bsuted like you say that would mean at high mmr there should be no game the survs ever win against him because to that "super strong killer" comes the skill of these players
I'm not nor have I ever said I was at a high MMR.
I do play a lot of killers, so there's definite validity to the statement that Blight is one of the easiest killers to learn right behind Wraith. He's simplistic. Compared to how much effort I put into other killers, Blight is a killer I can pick up and get 4ks easily. I think anyone who plays a lot of different killers will agree with me on that.
I'm not saying I'm right. I'm saying what my experience is from play Blight.
Now here are some other things a lot of players are noticing. One is that Blight is getting played way more than any of the other killers. Blight synergizes way to good with a lot of perks, such as Tinkerer, Ruin, Pop Goes the Weasel and a lot of other slowdown perks that work off of generator proximity. Blight's map control is the best, bar none, because his mobility and ease controlling his mobility is ridiculous.
He's just good all over.
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He's fine except for his ability to face-camp which survivors don't have the ability to counter. When you can stare into a survivors face all game and get 2 to 4 kills every game, there's an issue.
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@DatNasty1216 said:
Please BHVR
Wraith is way to simple to use. Simple to use killers can't be powerful because once experts at the game get ahold of simple to use powerful killers, then we have 4k streaks for 100s of games in a row on youtube. If he was complex and hard to use, then he could get buffed