game should *not* be balanced around soloq.
Like, this is supposed to be team game, and "solo q" is almost always lacking teamwork which SWF can easily have, suffering of solo que is problem of it's own and nothing should be changed according to them, except solo q experience itself.
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It isn't a team game, it's 4 1v1s. Hence the MMR.
It's certainly not, game is always survivors vs killer, there is a way to team up with your friend, and there is no real conflict between each survivors.
That's not really the point of shrinking the gap between the two. Not actively balancing around SoloQ is fine, it's even a great idea, but actively making things worse for them is a bad idea. Not everyone is able to play in a SWF, and that's fine- they deserve to have fun too, even if they're at a slight disadvantage.
So, what do you do? Well, you don't start balancing around SoloQ because then things get way too powerful for SWF. The devs have decided that they should be trying to make the two as similar as possible instead, and that's absolutely the right move; make them far more similar and then balance around both at once.
Well yes, that's probably the reason why I made this thread in GD instead of feedback, they are trying to fix problem itself, instead of trying to balancing anything else around a problem, which is soloq.
It's a multiplayer game.
No no, you've got a point.
"] nothing should be changed according to them, except solo q experience itself"
One instance of this I heard is they wanted to test new things for the ui, like if a teammate is working on a gen a minimalistic animation would show up around their character's icon signifying they are working on a gen (how the obession's entity sticks or fangs or whatever move a little when it's being chased). Why should they give a buff to people, even if a slight one, just because they are playing solo ? They still play with 3 other players in a team, just no voicechat and less coordiantion.
Sure, those 2 things are the difference between solo q and swf, but if you feel like you really need vc and coordination, just play with a buddy or a group. Again, sure it's not always avaible, but if you don't enjoy the game otherwise then only play with your buddy / friends.
I'm sure about it, your problems is exactly what happens in team based game.
Why? because, it doesn't really affect SWF, it's not like killers aren't dealing them already, buffing solo doesn't really hurt anyone.
If there is so big of a gap between solo and swf, the data will be skewed and true balance can't be achieved, they should try to remove it.
They are? Do you mean that icon thingy that's already in progress for half a year by now (iirc)?
This wouldn't fill me with hope or confidence when the devs need 6-12 MONTHS for something so insignificant never mind any big changes.
Insignificant? I think you're wildly underestimating just how useful something like those icons would be. Pair that with being able to see your teammate's loadouts, and you've got 90% of the job done, as far as I can see.
I also don't think it's been that long since they announced it, but I might be wrong. The amount of time it takes is worthy of criticism if it takes too long, but it doesn't really impact how useful the change would be once it is implemented.
I mean insignificant in terms of effort needed and time passed.
And I my eyes to bring solo and swf closer they should already make all aura reading perks that get substituted by comms basekit (10-12 iirc). And then balance accordingly.
For example like the ones that show gen or recovery on ground progress. Swf can and does already communicate stuff like that subconsciously. "My gen is at X%" or "pick me up i am ready" and stuff like that.
But on the other hand i expected the devs to use SBMMR as a fix balance point but instead they throw the whole concept out of the window like the old rank based matchmaking did once queue times got too long.
So i think IF they made those perks basekit or other changes to bring solo closer to swf i am afraid that killer would again get the short end of the stick (like character lobby lock is completely obsolete now with a non individual matchmaking).
That'd be a pretty terrible idea, you'd end up with an obscenely cluttered visual space for the game in a manner that'd be completely unapproachable if you don't already know what it all means- and even then, it wouldn't look good.
Better, I think, would be to show solo survivors all the information they need to figure that stuff out reliably if they're paying attention. You can already somewhat do that after you see someone downed, you can pay attention to how long they've been downed and guess as to where they'd be if they recovered the whole time. Add in the status icon showing you that they are actually recovering (if it goes that granular), and that means you can reliably and predictably gauge how far along someone would be recovered, which is what the game should be giving you.
It's okay for SWF to provide an advantage over solo - no matter what the devs do, it's always going to have the advantage of self-selecting good teammates who you get along with - so it's okay that it's a little easier to just tell your teammates these things. What solo players need isn't their hand held, but rather the ability to ascertain that information reliably.
It's not that you should be, but it's pretty common to people to say "true enemy is bad team mate" in any kind of team-based games, and that is true.
Icon or whatever, this is more or less proof of their intention, it may be enough or may not be enough but that itself is irrelevant, the fact they know it exists and trying to fix it is enough.
Literally every single thing takes time in this game, I don't know how or why, but it does.
Like they are trying to fix grind for god knows long, it's not there, but we know they are trying.
What i am aiming at with this is not only to get the advantage from swf over solo but over killer out of the way.
You can't balance something threeways. You will always end up with ones side getting the short end of the stick.
Balance killer for solo and swf can keep running all over them (all of this given a working matchmaking!).
Balance killer for sfw and solos get trampled.
You have to eliminate on third and since neither kille enorm swf will go anywhere, the only option remains, make solo and swf as equal as possible and balance truly for survivor vs killer.
Absolutely. And the way you do that is to give solo survivors the information that SWF get to communicate to one another, which is something you want to try to do without making the game visually incoherent by plastering auras everywhere.
Therefore, tell solo players what perks their teammates are running, and give them the status icon idea that was floated by BHVR a little while ago.
Sorry but i am no longer just so easily pleased with intentions when the fulfillment of the promise might take so long that the idea loses steam from the side of the devs just like for example early game slow down.
Promised to look into a method for that only to get scrapped on the way.
Hatch change promised soontm only to be the simplest change imaginable, just like Mori's.
Necessary accessibility changes like colorblind mode take ages and then get done asap after a PR disaster.
I have no faith in the devs anymore.
Will not disagree tbh, but eh just wait it gonna be better I guess.
Well it would be at least SOMETHING more than a promise. Read my other comment for what i think about the devs and their competence or (giving them some face) the accessibility of this outdated game engine
I see no benefit or merit to engaging with that premise. If the answer "well i don't have faith they'll do it/do it properly" is considered on the table, there's no point in talking about how to fix the game at all, because even good ideas are shot down.
Their competence or supposed lack thereof should be considered irrelevant, if we're talking about what the game actually needs.
Maybe but experiences speak louder than hopes.
Because the devs have shown that fixes, while they come eventually, end up the simplest solution to the problem even when way better ideas are given two days after the problem is acknowledged.
What's the point of introducing that into the conversation, though? If the conversation is about how to fix the game, the only thing you achieve by starting to talk about your lack of faith in the devs is shutting the conversation down, because if that were relevant at all the conversation never would've started at all.
Personally, I think the conversation about how to fix the gap between solo and SWF is interesting, so even if you think the devs are completely incompetent, it's worth humouring the notion they aren't for a hypothetical.
To me the issue is semi-cooperative design rarely works well. The devs want it to be “everybody for themselves but work as a team kind of” and it leads to a bunch of the common complaints. If it were coming out today from scratch it should have been designed to be the survivors are treated as a team from the outset and have a clear win/loss condition that survivors as a group win or lose versus the killer. All this ambiguity built into the game of endgame scorescreens and pips and MMR all reports different measurements of what people take to be victory conditions is a mess.
Unfortunately at this point it is what it is. 🤷♂️ Best we could hope for would be changing the endgame screens so they sync up better with the MMR system. Stop showing opponent’s grades and bloodpoint scores since they’re not relevant to matchmaking for example.
That's why I proposed the EASY fix of just making the 12 substituted perks basekit for a start. A realistic solution we could expect in days not months even from these devs, if they would accept the idea. That's what you shot down and I simply told you why hoping for anything better in a timeframe less than YEARS is wishful thinking.
Edit: I see myself as realist more than an optimist.
Well, there's no way that'd take days. One of the few generally correct criticisms of BHVR is that they work slowly, so something like that would still take a fair while.
Regardless, I recognise what you're saying here- though I would like to point out you initially presented your fix as the better idea, which is why I responded by pointing out that it is categorically not the better idea, and I definitely still don't agree in general with your position.
Fair enough, agree to disagree.
Really? Cause all I ever see when I soloQ is conflict among survivors. Sheesh.
That's just common thing in any "team based" PvP games.
people will blame ally, rather than opponent for some reason.
You should really edit your original post, above. It hardly makes any sense. What are you trying to say?
DBD is balanced around SBMMR and the stats they get from SBMMR which includes solo queue and SWF players. Are you saying BHVR should exclude all matches that have solo queue players in them, when looking at data?