Mister_Holdout
Mister_Holdout
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- Username
- Mister_Holdout
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Comments
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Couldn't care less about the new killer. I'll still get him for the teachables, but that's it.
The other updates are awesome. Overall, a great update.
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Yep, I just tried out the new Wraith and he feels quite fast. Definitely a good day for Wraith mains.
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I'm not.
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You were expecting a true horror killer but it was me, Dio!
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I don't really care about the new survivor. She seems pretty typical to me.
The new killer on the other hand is rather ridiculous. His power is interesting, but that design just seems strange to me. Not my cup of tea unfortunately.
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I would love to team up with another killer and hunt some survivors.
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@Blindninja said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1985890#Comment_1985890
Except we are talking about an actual frequency here.
There's no way you could possibly know what the true frequency is. Anecdotal evidence isn't going to cut it.
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Punishing slugging would destroy the Twins. So no.
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@Kellie said:
Can't the same thing go for the entire community?
Careful, your logic doesn't fit the "survivor bad, killer good" narrative. You might get flamed by other forum users.
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Survivors and killers get carried honestly.
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I honestly think he is with certain add-ons. Very hard to counter Oni when he has Topknot and Akito's Crutch.
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That's the best idea I've heard since the razor blade frisbee.
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@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1985191#Comment_1985191
You know that players can kick Victor, right? He has no defence against that, that's literally why survivors pairing off is unbeatable.
That doesn't always happen because survivors usually try and run away when Victor chases them. Them running away puts enough distance between Victor and the survivor wanting to kick him. Not to mention, if Charlotte is nearby she can follow up once Victor is crushed.
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@KiwiCoattails said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1985144#Comment_1985144
I currently use Ruin because I Prestiged them and don’t have the perks I want lol.
I normally use perks that enhance both Charlotte and Victor. BBQ, Bamboozle and PGTW for Charlotte and then Sloppy Butcher for Victor.
I’ll also sometimes switch out Bamboozle for Devour Hope or Surveillance. I feel like they’re one of the few killers in the game where you can really experiment with different builds.
Yours sounds really fun, I’ll have to give it a try.
I definitely recommend you give my slugging build a try: Corrupt, BBQ, Sloppy, and Deerstalker. Just keep in mind, my playstyle has very little room for error. Missing just one pounce can seriously hurt your momentum. Your main job is to pressure the map as much as you can with Victor. Any M1 hits you score with Charlotte are a bonus. Once you have three or more people injured, you'll want to consider slugging.
Good luck to you. You're going to love Deerstalker on Twins once you try it out.
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@MadLordJack said:
Twins are insane against mindless meta squads. Not even kidding. That is literally who they were designed to destroy - they can slug so heavily they power through UB and avoid DS, Victor catches up so quickly that exhaustion isn't a big deal, and glowing blood trails counter Iron Will.
But but but. But. BUT.
They are still one of the weakest killers in the game thanks to one big piece of counterplay: if the survivors stick together instead of splitting up. Especially if they have WGLF or DH. You just can't do anything, every hit you get punished for, snowballing is almost out of the question, and because of that UB becomes extremely strong once more.
The last thing you want to do against a competent Twins player is group up with the other survivors. Victor will have a much easier time slugging the whole team. And before you bring it up, yes anti-slug perks are a troublesome. But those perks aren't always effective. Victor's 150% movement speed allows him to easily keep up with survivors.
The Twins actually do have some serious downsides. I can explain them to you if you want.
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@KiwiCoattails said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1983147#Comment_1983147
I developed a cool tactic yesterday that seemed to be working. I leave Victor to body block my Ruin totem and then I chase people off gens as Charlotte and try to get everybody injured and then I send Victor out to play. 😈
Another Twins player I know has a similar playstyle.
I personally don't use Ruin on Twins. Instead, I use Corrupt, BBQ, Sloppy, and Deerstalker. My playstyle is to get as many people injured as I can, and then slug the whole team with Victor when the opportunity presents itself. Deerstalker lets me slug as much as I want.
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Yeah, I stayed away from the Twins for a while too. But after I tried playing them, I was instantly hooked.
Victor's 150% movement speed is what makes the Twins a great killer imo.
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I'm a Twins main. I have to slug in order to win.
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Nah, Haddonfield and the indoor maps are the worst.
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The only killer I use Ruin on is Ghost Face. And that's because I can protect it with Haunted Grounds, which has pretty good synergy with GF.
As for the rest of my killers, it's either PGTW or Corrupt Intervention (or both).
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Most of the good killers in the game are non-licensed. So I'm happy we keep getting original killers. The devs haven't released a bad original killer for a while now.
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I'm a Twins main.
The biggest strength of the Twins is Victor's ability to slug the whole team. Of course, you have to get the survivors injured first. The more survivors that are injured, the more Victor can slug.
My first piece of advice for you is not to let Charlotte get hits on you. Most Twins players run Sloppy Butcher, so getting hit puts you at risk against Victor.
Once Victor is dispatched, you need to immediately run to a safe pallet and throw it down early. As far as I know, Victor can't do much once a safe pallet is thrown early because his pounce is not quick enough to catch survivors that fast vault. Important note, I said safe pallets, not the unsafe ones. The loop needs to be long enough to prevent Victor from easily moving to the other side. Keep in mind, Victor is slowed dramatically while charging his pounce. If you have enough time to fast vault the pallet and crouch, I don't think Victor can hit you. At least I haven't figured out how yet.
You can also hop in a locker to prevent Victor from downing you. But I would only do that if the killer hasn't slugged multiple people already. You'll have to make a strategic call early.
That's about it really. Basically, make it as hard as possible for Charlotte score M1 hits. And throw down pallets early to create a barricade between you and Victor. You can also enter a locker in order to stop a potential slugging spree. And of course, anti-slugging perks are helpful as well.
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Another reason for me not to give these devs anymore money.
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Dead Hard, Small Game, Iron Will, and Spine Chill
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1963428#Comment_1963428
Yep. It cringes me to see some people say twins are trash or average because they are one of the hardest killers to learn imo. Not mechanically but strategically and it clearly shows.
The twins are mechanically hard to play as well imo because landing pounces with Victor is not easy. At least for me :)
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1963417#Comment_1963417
Also I experience the same thing, they either genrush or mass heal. It's been nice to talk to another twins main, and we just have different ways to play. I can't invalidate your playstyle. This is actually a good thing, for twins to have the potential to be played in various ways.
And I won't invalidate your playstyle because I've honestly never tried it.
I think we can both agree the Twins have a lot going for them.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1963369#Comment_1963369
but if they go into a locker, you can't slug them regardless of if they wre injured or healthy. If victor latches onto them, you're stuck as an m1 killer for 30 seconds. Sounds not much, but mathematically you should usually lose repeating this.
This is why making a 3 gen setup and luring survivors to revive their hooked or slugged teamates is vital. You aren't reliably going to hit against decent survivors as charlotte in territory with pallrts and string loops, but when you bring them to your territory deprived of pallets, you have a much more potential for more sloppy butcher injuries and slugs with victor afterwards.
I don't need to setup a 3 gen strat when I play Twins. I try and pressure with Victor as soon as I can. In my experience, survivors are either rushing gens or healing each other. With BBQ, I can prioritize who I go after.
For me, the strongest aspect of the Twins is Victor's movement speed. That's why I use Victor as much as I can to pressure the map.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I wish Victor could look up higher with his pounce. It might feel fun to be able to actually go over things instead of just...straight.
Agreed. His pounce should be more like Demo's shred.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1963340#Comment_1963340
I like to park victor next to a survivor, especially if there's a hex totem or generator near the hook, because that lets me immediately down the unhooked survivor and waste even more time reviving the teammate, which also buys me time as charlotte to move back there or do something else. This is even more useful with sloppy butcher, when they still have the mangled debuff.
Instead, i move around with charlotte, injure with sadistic butcher, kick gens with PGTW, etc.
Your strategy is actually fragile, because if survivors grow a brain and start healing fast or going into lockers, you're going to be losing pressure fast.
I pressure with Victor because Victor is the sibling with 150% movement speed. The only way you'll be able to reliably injure/down survivors is by attacking with Victor. Any extra hits I can score with Charlotte are an added bonus.
One thing I will admit however is that my play style has very little room for error. Missing just one pounce can seriously hurt your momentum. That said, I still think it's the proper way to play Twins.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1963335#Comment_1963335
Agreed. Everyone knows u have to slug to win with twins. See, when you bring survivors to one place with victor, like inside a 3 generator, and slug them there, it works out. They come back to revive their mate, you camp the slugged survivor while also defending a generator, and snowball from there. This is why people place victor on hooks they're going to hook survivors on. It's all about spreading the injury and eventually hard snowballing. And I can see the point of your build for that reason.
I don't usually park Victor next to a hooked survivor. I prefer leaving Charlotte near the hook and pressuring the rest of the map with Victor.
That's why I like using BBQ. The aura reading tells me what my next move should be.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1963234#Comment_1963234
WE definitely play differently, al ot differently, which is entirely fine, because nobody has figured out a perfect way to play the twins yet, and i think there will be a long long time before someone does/ Until then, to each their own.
Slugging everyone as victor is universally a gREAT strategy, but personally I just can't consistently do it becaues survivors tend to split up quick and also some go into lockers, so i use victor as a land mine for one of the hex totems while I hit with sadistic butcher with charlotte around the map. After ruin undying is cleansed, i set up for a 3 gen and plant victor at one of the generators. I try to brign the survivors to victor and strictly stay in the 3 gen setup, and if it means slugging and cmaping, must be done.
Slugging with Victor is the only way you're going to win against decent survivors. Obviously, this can be challenging to accomplish because survivors have different play styles.
The key to success for the Twins is knowing when to slug as well as creating opportunities to slug. It's certainly tricky. I still have a lot to learn myself.
But the one thing I'm fairly certain about is you have to slug with Victor. Otherwise, you won't stand a chance against good survivors. That's why I use the build I do. Because it allows me to keep up the slugging pressure all game.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1963203#Comment_1963203
Like I said, Pop goes the weasel.
And don't let them recover. I've had instances where i had to stand over a slugged survivor for 2 minutes as their injured teammates did gens, because I could not do anything else. These matches were won because i could juggle them off generators early game which led to only 2 being completed by first death, all due to ruin and undying. Eventually they collapsed. it's like a domino effect.
Personally I wouldn't use barbecue and deerstalker because they don't provide actual slow-down, and if you are caught between a rock and a hard place in which you can't keep up with the survivors, they'll fail you.
You and I obviously play the Twins a lot differently.
I try and slug everyone with Victor. Sloppy helps keep people injured and Deerstalker allows me to track all the survivors I've slugged.
BBQ could probably be replaced with something like Thrilling Tremors or Infectious Fright, but I think it's a decent perk on the Twins (bonus bp is always a plus).
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1963157#Comment_1963157
True. It is inevitable that your ruin undying will get cleansed eventually, and pretty fast if you can't get victor to defend. Especially after the nerf. But I can at least keep it for early game while I slug and get injuries which just HAS to buy enough time for later, and i bring pop for backup as well. Sloppy butcher is extermely good on twins as well for this resaon. Regardless, Ruin is just so good on twins because they can capitalize on the passive regression so well with incap status effect and slugging.
What do you do when all that early game pressure is gone and the survivors have recovered?
With BBQ, Sloppy, and Deerstalker I have the potential to keep the pressure up all match.
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@Dragonshensi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1963138#Comment_1963138
I main survivor, and if I didn’t solo and have a team we could probably at least escape with two most of time. Solo though you get nothing but potatoes
So you just admitted with solo queue you get nothing but potatoes. If that's the case, how do figure survivors will mostly win? Most survivors play by themselves.
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None of the survivors bother me at all. For the most part, I treat everyone equally.
That said, I have a soft spot for Laurie. So if you're playing Laurie in my game, chances are I'll give you hatch 😘
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1962977#Comment_1962977
Seems like you are too confident. I thought I could win with the standard pop corrupt until i played against good teams on a ######### map. But I could never for a second doubt how good you are at the game. Good luck.
I consider myself somewhat of a Twins main.
If you're playing against genuinely good survivors on a bad map, Ruin/Undying will not save you. Chances are your perk combo will be gone very quickly.
That's why I recommend running perks that cannot be deactivated by survivors. Sloppy and Deerstalker are great perks for keeping up the slugging pressure.
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I think you should play more survivor before making predictions like this.
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@SilentPill said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1962779#Comment_1962779
Nobody is saying it isn’t a good combo, it’s just why would you use it on wraith. There’s so many other killers that use it a million times better.
Wraith is probably the best hit and run character in the game if you don’t count hag. Why would you reduce him to an endfury character when you could be using Bubba, Myers, Billy etc who all just get a 1 shot down when it procs?
It’s like coming in here and saying run endfury on trapper. Sure, it will probably still work, but his entire thing is area control and it doesn’t play to his kit.
Why would you compare Trapper (who has an anti-loop power) with Wraith (who is a chase-oriented killer)?
Spirit Fury/Enduring is for killers who have to deal with pallets. It's not a complicated subject.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1960997#Comment_1960997
"How is running around cloaked all the time going to win you chases against good survivors?"
That's entirely the point, you aren't chasing.
"Obviously, you'll eventually use up their resources. Which is why hit and run works well on Wraith."
Against good survivors there are more than enough pallets to have the gens done before they run out.
"But with SF/Enduring you can get a quicker down."
That's IF they don't drop them early and they stun you with them....which they won't be once they see Enduring. They'll drop them just slightly early having your perks do nothing.
"Not to mention, you can still spread the damage without Sloppy."
Sloppy is guaranteed consistent slow down and pressure, specifically because you have the map pressure and stealth to go with it.
It's also one perk slot, not 2.
You and I obviously have a different point of view.
I used to think the same way too not so long ago. But I started watching other really skilled people play and my perspective has changed some.
If you're one of those killers who is really good in chases, Spirit Fury/Enduring is a good combo. Even if you only get to use the combo just a few times, sometimes that's all it takes.
If you don't believe me you can try it yourself. Or watch one of the really good killer streamers play like Scott Jund.
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Terrible idea for obvious balance reasons.
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@Pulsar said:
As Survivor, it's rare that my team has anyone die, much less more than one.
It's rare for even a single person to die in your matches as survivor? Do you always play with a SWF sweat squad?
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Those two perks are definitely busted and need changes. Glad the devs are doing the right thing on this issue.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1960958#Comment_1960958
IE nothing in your kit is for loops so you should play towards the strengths that your killer has an advantage in such as stealth and map pressure.
How is running around cloaked all the time going to win you chases against good survivors?
Obviously, you'll eventually use up their resources. Which is why hit and run works well on Wraith. But with SF/Enduring you can get a quicker down. Not to mention, you can still spread the damage without Sloppy.
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@SilentPill said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1960947#Comment_1960947
I’m not saying it’s bad, you can win with any perk build in the game.
I just don’t see why you would take a killer who’s only strength is being mobile while cloaked and then use a build that turns him into a 115 M1 killer. There’s literally no reason to play him over any of the other low mobility chase killers at that point.
And you don’t really mind game the best tiles in the game, like shack. Really good survivors always pay attention and stand at the corners which makes mindgames borderline impossible no matter how much you moonwalk or double back. Not that you see really good survivors often.
Well, if you use the hit and run build, then you'll eventually have to start winning chases. And if you're playing against strong loopers, they aren't going to give you an easy down.
Spirit Fury/Enduring gives Wraith a little extra utility, which is certainly useful in chases.
As for shack, I'm pretty sure you can mind game most survivors. I'm usually able to.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1960915#Comment_1960915
It's counter intuitive to how Wraith is built. You're better off playing him to his inherent strengths.
You shut down a loop every third pallet and that's assuming they hit you with the pallets, which decent survivors will not once they realize you're running Enduring. They will pre drop like they would a Clown. Not to mention you're wasting 2 perk slots on all this.
The fastest chase is to not have the chase in the first place.
How is it counterintuitive? Enduring/Spirit Fury is specifically designed to help M1 killers with pallets.
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@SilentPill said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1960864#Comment_1960864
Nah I don’t think so, endfury isn’t really that good on him since all you are getting is an M1. It’s way better on one shot killers where it actually equates to a down.
I use enduring standalone just because wraith needs to face tank really safe pallets a lot to get them out of the way. Bamboozle is what actually stops the god loops since all the problematic tiles are due to a strong window. But enduring is better for general loops.
Theres not much reason to commit to chases if you have windstorm, especially since his first hit is usually free. If you are going to commit a lot you are better off playing a low mobility killer with a stronger power.
We obviously have a different perspective.
I don't usually run Bamboozle because I would rather out mind game the survivor.
I still think Enduring/Spirit Fury is good because it gives Wraith something to combat pallets.
Like I said, Sloppy is good too, but so is Spirit Fury/Enduring. If you don't believe me, I'm sure you can find game play on Twitch.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1960864#Comment_1960864
Chase Wraith isn't good imo. You're trying to force a play style on a killer that isn't built for it with bandaid perks.
Enduring/SF is overrated and quite counterable for survivors when they realize you have it.
Enduring/Spirit Fury is definitely a decent option on Wraith. Since Wraith's main weakness is pallets, being able to shutdown a loop can be huge.
Sloppy on Wraith is good too, but sometimes winning a chase is more important.
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*Spirit shouldn't be allowed to use Stridor*
😜
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@Blueberry said:
Sloppy for sure, especially since its buff. Makes his hit and run strong, which is honestly his only viable play style.
New Ruin/Undying is trash imo, so your options are Pop or Surge. Or both..
I like running Bamboozle more these days as well. 90% of your games it won't do much, but on those few games against god loopers it will be a life saver and honestly those are the only real games I care about. IE I don't need that extra perk slot on average games against potatoes anyway so I'm fine wasting it for those situational times.
These days I don't really even care much for tracking perks as I can just track through intuition and game experience so it feels like a wasted slot. That said if I take one, Discordance is quite good.
NC can be very strong on certain maps but feels meh on most maps. Depends if you like the dice roll or if you're using an offering.
Hit and run is not Wraith's only viable play style. You can use Enduring/Spirit Fury and be a chase oriented Wraith.
And you mentioned Bamboozle countering god loopers. I would imagine you're more likely to catch them using the Enduring/Spirit Fury combo.
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The best Twins build I've found so far is Corrupt Intervention, BBQ, Sloppy Butcher, and Deerstalker.
Unfortunately for the Twins, they don't have much perk synergy.
Corrupt, BBQ, and Sloppy are their best perks imo. I like running Deerstalker because it helps keep track of all the dying survivors, which means you're free to slug as much as you want.