Marik13
Marik13
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@thefallenloser said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2453566#Comment_2453566
whataboutisms is not helping your argument
though most experience survivors would in fact say that yes, gens should be changed
I don't see why not since your entire premise is based around an absurd scenario of a basement camping Bubba who has NOED. Which btw, don't know if you've been told or not, but Bubba doesn't need NOED to camp cus they have a chainsaw that does a better job. But say you change the killer to, I dunno, Trapper. You can play around him. Literally run circles around the hook while someone else runs off to do bones.
You know how many times I've used NOED where I've gotten no value from it? A lot. If I had someone on hook I would have the survivors come at me from different angles, jumping in and out, so that I'd bounce back between them while the 3rd survivor went off and killed my totem. After that, they'd swarm me, unhook and body block all the way to the gates. Hell, in other games the second the other survivors see that NOED is up they do the smart thing and just run out as quickly as they can.
You don't want to hear anyone tell you to "just do bones" but that's the counter to this perk. Just because you had a couple of bad games where you died to NOED or because you're too lazy to do bones, doesn't mean the perk is game breakingly bad. In other words I'm gonna a tell you the same thing that survivors tell me when I get 0 kills in a game. Get good.
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@AGM said:
I swear, the people saying "do bones" sound like they're never played solo queue nor thought critically about that strategy. First thing's first, you should never have to bring a perk to counter the possibility of another perk; that's bad game design. Next, it stands to reason that without coordination, the easiest to find totem spots will be cleansed first, and if you miss one, not only did you waste time doing bones that could have been spent on gens, you now guarantee that NOED is now on the hardest to find totem, again, assuming they even have it in the first place.
Clearly the more efficient strat is to memorize the locations of any dull totems you come across but don't cleanse them, then check those totems after the last gen is done if the killer reveals that they have noed. No time wasted, no self sabotage.
Oh, so we shouldn't have to be forced to bring in perks to counter other perks? So then you agree that something must be done about gen times then right? I mean it'd be pretty bad game design if a killer is forced to always take a gen pressure perk just on the chance that someone either brings a BNP or has Prove Thyself right? Again I agree.
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@thefallenloser said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2453430#Comment_2453430
Not in this scenario, no. There would still be at least another gen to do with that sort of time frame.
I play killer. Stop making this about me lol.
So do I, and there's a reason I never face camp, unless if it's at the end game timer and I'm desperate cus I haven't killed anyone yet, it's because I lose 9/10 of those matches. Gens already go down so quick that half the time when I'm chasing I'll have two or three of them pop off at once before I can even down the -ONE- person.
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@SeannyD115 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2453415#Comment_2453415
They just need to make the bleed out timer shorter so you can't work on gens with deep wounds or make it like doc tier 3
Yeah maybe do a rework so that instead of causing a down with the timer running out, you make it a shorter timer that runs out on it's own and maybe causing survivors to be incapacitated or something, so that they can't perform any actions during that short time or something? Again I have no idea lol.
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@thefallenloser said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2453049#Comment_2453049
Let's say that Bubba immediately finds, downs, and facecamps a survivor to death about 1 min into the game. In those 120 seconds it would take for Claudette to die as well as the additional 60 seconds from before, an average of 3-4 gens would be completed. Cool, almost all the gens are done. Bubba doesn't catch anyone after, then the final gen gets done. That survivor Bubba couldn't catch? NOED helped him out with a little speed boost and instadown. Bubba facecamps that survivor to death. The others can't do anything about it.
Would you say that NOED is fine in this instance?
Even assuming that survivors were looking for the totems while the first survivor was being camped, that would mean less gens would get done, giving Bubba more time to kill. This is assuming that the survivors even find the totem in the first place. On maps like Grim Pantry where the totems can spawn in some random corner away from everything else hidden in grass, do you expect survivors to reliably cleanse those totems in a timely manner on that big map?
NOED is not fine and I'm so sick of people saying it is.
I mean...if Bubba is face camping in the basement and you guys are slamming gens and not running down to the basement like friggin' Door Dash, then you guys pretty much have the win especially if you do gens away from the basement. Yeah it's gonna suck for whoever is on hook, but hey it happens. Regardless if the killer has NOED in this situation or not, there's not much he can do to turn that around if he decided to stay in basement and wait until all the gens were done. By the time he gets halfway across the map you guys on the farthest door will are already halfway to escaping.
TL;DR: NOED is fine. Stop being bad.
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Yeah I agree about deep wounds in general not really being threatening in game regardless of whatever killer you use it on (remember, Slinger also applies it too). Although yeah I've read how it used to be with old Legion and after seeing that, I agree with the nerf they received. Now that said, I'm gonna be honest I have no idea what the solution would be to make deep wounds actually useful and feel somewhat more threatening instead of a minor nuisance.
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@Starly said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2453300#Comment_2453300
Survivors usually bully low skill Twins, I'm just making them pay the price
Trust me I know, my twins are around lvl 20 and the best perk I have on them is surge =/. Although my favorite thing to do with them is when survivors are being cocky and waiting at the exit gates, I like to send Victor in and face hug one of them after I park Charlotte close enough to just come in, down them and then hook them for my one kill lol. I might have lost the match, but I got the last laugh lol.
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@Starly said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2453202#Comment_2453202
I only run NOED on Twins as an endgame build and I don't get more than 4 hooks before all gens pop. Survivors don't do bones have perks they can just use and then whine that you had NOED or that you camped.
I usually run NOED on my lower rank killers cus 8/10 times the bloodweb decides to screw me and give me the worst perks available in game. My Deathslinger is one who I run NOED on cus he literally has nothing else worth using, and I'm certainly not gonna cripple myself harder by equipping useless perks like Deerstalker just to make the survivors happy. Now I will admit I did run a Blood Warden end game build with Freddy once, where I had NOED, Blood Warden, and the one iri add-on for Freddy that acts like a mini Blood Warden lol. I did it one time and never again cus I felt bad at the end there.
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@Starly said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2453164#Comment_2453164
I kinda hate how killers have to earn their perks and survivors can just use theirs without much or any work needed.
Right? Dead Hard? No problem! NOED? No! Work for it you mule! Its ridiculous. Maybe if the game were better balanced overall so that gen speeds weren't a problem and there were much better options available for killers to use so that they don't have to tunnel/camp, then maybe we can look at NOED and find a re-work for it. But until then, no.
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@Bennett_They1Them said:
Also, I don't have an issue with noed, I'm just trying to make it more fun for other people, since they seem to have issues with it.
Majority of people who have a problem with it usually are the ones that don't want to take the time to cleanse totems. NOED is so easy to counter as it is with all the totem perks survivors have at their disposal. Any kind of rework to it where the killer needs to "earn it" or "work for it" to where it only lasts a limited time, should then remove it from being a Hex then.
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No. Leave NOED alone. It's fine the way it is. There are other much bigger problems in this game that need to be fixed/re-worked first.
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I've seen people use Friday the 13th as an example of an actual scary asymmetrical game and, there's just a couple of things on that. I agree, F13 was actually pretty scary and I remember games actually felt pretty tense as survivor. But here's the reason why it's like that for that game and why DBD can't replicate that. It comes down to the objectives and gameplay of both games. DBD you can easily rush gens like nothing. Between the toolboxes, perks, and BNPs you can just have your team slam 2-3 gens like it's no one's business in the same time that it takes the killer to get two hooks in. Then you combine that with the forgiving second chance perks that embolden survivors to get in the killer's face/rush them/mess with them/etc and yeah there's really no reason to fear the killer in DBD.
Now in F13 the maps were huge and in order to escape you had to go search the entire campgrounds and little items that allow you escape, while also hiding from the killer. It is significantly harder to rush your objectives in F13 as survivors, and yeah you -can- charge Jason and mess with him, but it's an extremely dangerous thing to do. Unfortunately without makeing some significant changes to the game as a whole we won't be able to really take notes or do much to make them, which I don't think BHVR will do an overhaul like that.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2441855#Comment_2441855
But the survivor that got unhooked shouldn't be punished either.
It is hurting the killer because you essentially give that one survivor an extra life, meaning I now have to hook that survivor for a 4th time to get them out of the game, making my already pain in the ass objective of scoring 12 hooks total, go up to 13. Keep in mind, each hook counts as 8% towards me reaching my goal. By making me have to hook someone 4 times, even if it's just one survivor, giving me 13 hooks to chase, then each hook counts as 7% for my objective, where as survivors don't get penalized for reaching their own objective. Which again, this could be abused by SWF teams as well, swapping out intentional unsafe hooks to buy extra time for an easy 4 escape.
The killer's job is to kill. Yeah it sucks for the one survivor who gets unhooked unsafely, but that's where awareness needs to kick in for the team before they go for the save. Punishing the killer for doing their job when the survivors make a mistake, is wrong.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2441769#Comment_2441769
Alternatively you could be farmed off the hook right in front of the killer.
30 seconds is less time than you get for DS, if you were rehooked within 30 seconds, chances are it wasn't a safe unhook, the killer was actually camping, or both.
So if it was an unsafe hook, then why would you punish the killer for the mistake of survivors? You know how many times I've hooked a survivor, taken ten steps away from the hook, get the ping for the unhook, and go back to catch the survivors healing right under the hook? I wasn't camping, I was going to go out and look for people. Are you saying that I should give the survivors a pass for making a bad play?
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@Seraphor said:
I don't think this is a terrible idea. At least with a bit of refinement.
Hooking survivors currently automatically knocks them down a hook state. Well what if that entire hook state was only progressed if the hook wasn't the same survivor in succession.
The hook progress would still carry on ticking, but if they were immediately rescued and then immediately rehooked, they would have only lost the natural hook progress, not an entire hook state in just a few seconds. It would solve hook farming too. Even if it only did this once per survivor per game, so two successive hooks would eliminate the hook state.
Alternatively make it a survivor perk: When unhooked, if you are rehooked within 30/35/40 seconds, you don't lose a hook state. Effect is removed for the rest of the trial once a hook state is lost.
There's bonuses for both sides. Survivor potentially gets an additional hook state if rescued/hooked fast enough, survivors who rescue them get an extra shot at rescue points, killer gets more hook points.
Nah, the problem with preventing a hook state if they're hooked twice in a row is that it rewards bad survivors. If you get unhooked and the killer comes back and you as the survivor don't run or hide in time, then why reward you with an extra hook state? I say this as said bad survivor who has been caught in this exact situation cus I didn't do a good enough job of running or hiding. Plus it could be abused by SWF teams, by having the person purposefully allow themselves to get caught to buy the rest of the team extra time.
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@MrCalac123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2441721#Comment_2441721
I have no clue, it's so pointless and poorly thought out. It doesn't even last more than like, a second or 2.
Dude, it's not even that long! It's literally less than half a second! Like who designed this and thought this was fine and made sense?
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The weird thing is the tentacle is supposed to apply hindered which...gets negated with the speed boost hit. So....why even bother having the tentacle apply hindered? It makes 0 sense at all. Why actively design something to counter itself like that? It'd be like if after using DS you can't move until 1 second before the killer recovers from the stun. Kinda negates itself.
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@AgentTalon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2438884#Comment_2438884
I will never Prestige a killer or survivor simply because the grind is literally too much time for me with no reward. The outfits are ok and I get the feeling of pride you get from a grind but in DBD the grind is too long to justify that.
Yeah the main reason I will never prestige any of my level 50 characters is because of that long and frustrating grind, which I am still having to go through on other characters who have not reached 50. The pain of having Legion at 50 with no good meta perks or playing low level Oni/Spirit/Trapper/Demo with only the basic non-killer specific perks =/ it's a painful experience that I don't want to willingly throw myself in to for me to re-live and suffer through again.
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Maybe don't feed the killer if they're camping? Just a thought. You're supposed to be survivors, not the killer's Door Dash order.
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So wait... am I bad killer if I take three steps away from the hook and go back to it when the survivors unhook? I'm sorry, I wasn't aware that had to ignore the information the game gives me and throw the match just for the "fun" of the survivors. Apparently I ain't allowed to play the game and have fun on my end...
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@Dino7281 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2435796#Comment_2435796
Grind is insane and 250k doesn't change much. That's 5 bloodweb pages. I can earn it in 3 games.
Most games with SBMM show either ratings or statistics, if they are scared players will abuse their system, then that system is not good enough and it shouldn't be implemented.
and where did you get info about not being able to depip?
So just gonna counter two things on what you've said so far. You say that all the MMR is gonna do is just have people de-rank since it won't matter right? Well...hate to break it to you mate, but THAT'S BEEN HAPPENING WITH THE CURRENT SYSYEM! Literally right now the ranks mean absolutely nothing and you don't get any rewards for leveling up at all either. Hell I've actually de-ranked myself in the past because when I first started out I would constantly get paired with rank 1 and 2 survivors who would just completely roll over me or bully me for 20 minutes until they got bored. So yeah, this doesn't mean anything since this is currently a problem anyway.
Now next point, I actually agree with you on the 250k BP being kind of a crap reward. However, again I point to our current system where we literally receive nothing for moving through the ranks. Yeah 250k might not be much for someone like you, but it is still something and actually would mean a lot for some of the new players going through the grind along with players grinding through their prestige webs. Besides you gotta think of it like this, if they're opening the gates for rewarding the monthly resets, maybe they could give better rewards down the road as time goes on? It's definitely a possibility, and again 250k BP is still better than literally nothing, so I'll happily take the BP. Actually that would help motivate me to actually prestiging some killers who I have at 50 that I refuse to go through the grind again and re-live the headache of starting with 0 perks again at a higher level, with the only reward being an ass kicking at the hands of the other high ranked survivors with their maxed out meta perks and big items...
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I've been saying on here for a long time now to give kicks for killers a mini "pop" effect on their initial kicks, like a 5% chunk taken off at the kick. That takes care of three problems. Gen speeds, gen tapping by survivors (cus I mean if you wanna tap it and let me shave off more than just 5%, go for it), and makes kicking gens more worth it for killers who don't have or run the meta gen regressing perks.
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@Mooks said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2437198#Comment_2437198
It’s not active on PTB. Actually i think on PTB there is no actual matchmaking system active at all.
Oh damn, nevermind then I thought it was active cus I saw Otz had the new rank and there was another thread saying that he's been in a few matches up against particularly extra sweaty survivors more so than normal.
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@Iliketoplaykiller said:
Who is literally getting destroyed by all the SWF squads lately, I'm rank 1 but everyone knows that doesn't mean squat but jesus man. I had a way better time playing against SWF with SBMM on, I really do hope they are going to implement it and sometime relatively soon.
Well good news cus it's actually active in the PTB and looks like when the patch goes live then SBMMR will be coming along with it. Honestly as a fellow killer I feel your pain. Last night I got matches where I just got absolutely cumstered and dumpstered by survivors. At least with SBMMR on when I lost I knew it was because I messed up on a play and it was my fault for playing something wrong. Not like last night where I'm just completely outside of my skill level...
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I mean...every killer on the roster kinda has that thing about them that's kinda messed up and would make a normal person go, eugh... I mean hell, are you saying you'd be more comfortable eating dinner with someone like Leatherface? Blegh.
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I...fail to see the issue here. If SBMMR is meant to place you against people who are closer to your skill level, then I'd think that it's working perfectly well if someone like Otz, who is typically viewed as one of if not the best killer in the game, got put in to matches where he actually had to try. I'd say that is more fair than having that same 4 man sweat squad go against an average killer and just completely roll over them without even breaking a sweat.
It's like someone else here pointed out. If they don't go up against someone like Otz, then what's the alternative? They face a potato killer and steamroll/bully the poor bloke for 20 minutes until they get bored? Again I think this is working pretty well. Also if things are severely unbalanced at higher levels against killers, well I mean how long has the community been saying that for and the devs didn't listen? Maybe now when it becomes a massive issue, the devs will have no choice but to do something about it. Plus, and this is just my train of thought, with SBMMR I would think it would make things a lot easier to look at and see what exactly needs balancing and where the problems are. Like it's a bit hard to track down a problem when you have high skilled players getting matched up with potatoes who don't know ######### they're doing or just aren't at the same skill level as their opponents. It's harder to look at a random matchmaking system with no MMR and figure out if something truly does need to be balanced or if maybe it's more of a lack of skill thing, if that makes any sense?
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Hell, it made my experience as killer way better and a whole lot less sweatier too. The matches I got in to all felt at least somewhat winnable and I didn't feel completely outmatched by the survivors.
Keep in mind I'm not saying that I won all my games either, I didn't. Just saying that when I did lose those matches they were a lot closer than what my matches were like last night without MMR where survivors would just be rolling over my ass and I'd be lucky if I had two hooks in before the third gen popped =/.
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Oh jesus another NOED thread.... I love how the narrative is "NOED encourages bad killers" meanwhile survivors are allowed to use all of their second chance meta perks whenever they want and it's not an issue.
Point is WHO CARES?! So what, both sides have second chance crutch perks. Get over it! If you can't counter something easy like NOED then maybe it's not the killer who's bad, maybe it's you? Same with killers. DH and Adrenaline are annoying as hell, but so what? They're in the game, adapt and learn to play around it. Damn, y'all complain over the dumbest things. Just play the game however you want. If it's available in game for you to use then it's fair game to use. Period. End of discussion. Move on.
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@FrostySeal said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2423202#Comment_2423202
Honestly some of the arguments both sides bring up are dumb. But the point of my post was to tell people who are going on the forums and whatnot saying "It's the job of the killer to kill the survivors!" is partially wrong. Yes they have to kill the survivors but going by the games lore your suppose to kill them slowly. But whatever, no one's really gonna listen to what the game is gonna tell you to do and that's ok, I just want people to stop misunderstanding what the game tells you.
You're confusing the in game lore with the actual gameplay objective of the game. The lore says one thing, sure. But the game literally tells you that killers need to sacrifice survivors, and the survivors objective is to hide and escape. Your using the whole videogame logic argument here for why in other games I need stab/slash/shoot enemies multiple times to just get 1 kill. If we're going by lore then the majority of games out there are wrong on everything.
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Ok, but I mean you're literally and factually wrong though. The game LITERALLY tells you that as a killer your goal is to KILL the survivors. It says this both in the actual in game killer tutorial and on their website! So I mean no, our objective isn't to "torture" the survivors, it's to kill them. What you're drawing off of is what happens in the lore of the game, which doesn't translate to the gameplay objectives.
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Wait wait wait, MMR IS back?! Holy hell I might actually be able to get decent games now!
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The thing that scares me the most, especially in this game is the terrible matchmaking system DBD had. Oh god...I've seen some true horrors in my life but this? This is just beyond terrifying.
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@Power_Guy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2409988#Comment_2409988
At which point one of us will point out that Survivors can stand 40+ meters from the hook, in 2 separate directions, thereby forcing the Killer to camp or to give up an unhook. This removes power from what is supposed to be the power role.
At which point some Survivors will then claim they 'don't see anything wrong with that' and 'it punishes camping, so it does it's job'.
At which point...🙃
Exactly. Hell you already have survivors who will all bumrush a hook together and take body shots for each other for killers who can't do 1 hit downs. Bubba and Myers are the ones that really make them check themselves when it comes to make those plays. Should we nerf Myers too?
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@killerpiller said:
@Orion well okay there is obviosly some reasons that i dont understand that hook distance thingy would not work but so you are saying devs ######### up desining the game and cannot fix it or dont want to?
It doesn't work because in early PTBs for the game when it came out, survivors abused it by running loops purposefully around the hooks to punish the killer. In other words, survivors back then played and screwed themselves for the future.
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@JohnnyB87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2409370#Comment_2409370
First...where is it written the objective is to kill the survivors? I can get a perfect game as killer with 8 hooks and no kills...the objective of the game is to get as many points as possible. Sadly, people put there own rules and objectives into the game and none are correct.
Second, not part of quote, camping and tunneling is actually the worst two strategies for a killer. Killers who have to do either are just not good. Same with survivors gen rushing, let em, they won't pip cause like I said before it's about points. Surprisingly it's the "veterans" of this game who have lost the ideology of what the game is meant to be. If it was a kill or survive game it'd be F13, which as far as I know this isn't.
This game is on the verge of dying, population only rises during events and dlcs, and then back to it's 20-30k players which is very low. Devs need to fix a lot of bugs, which won't happen, and players need to not be so try hard. There are NO rewards for ranks so rank means nothing as it always has but people don't get that.
Also, the bannable offenses contradict each other. Camping, tunneling and slugging are not bannable, yet it states if you prevent a player from playing the game, which all 3 are, then it is bannable. Yes strategic camping, tunneling, and hatch slugging I get after a few gens are done, but doing any at 5 gens is just bad gameplay and needs to be addressed, but how is the question.
Are you seriously saying that the objective of *THE KILLER* isn't to, you know...*KILL*? Like uhhh...what? How do you think we earn those points to begin with? Yeah sure you can cheese the system by just getting whacks and scoring high in chase and destruction points. Honestly I'd say that is more indicative on how much the gameplay of DBD sucks, with how easy it is to manipulate. Because yeah, you're right if I just get 2 whacks on the survivors and they all kill themselves on hook then I wouldn't get enough points to pip up, and I'd probably just depip as a result as well. Same for if a killer just sits in a corner and survivors just slam gens and only gens, they will depip as a result of not earning points. Again that is just proof of how trash the current system is, especially when you take in to account that literally rank means nothing in this game cus you'll run in to red rank players when you're still a potato.
But crying about the point system aside, because that's honestly a topic for another time. You are seriously asking, where does it say that my objective as the killer is to kill? Well you really want to know where it says that? You really really want to know? IT SAYS IT IN THE DAMN GAME AND ON THEIR WEBSITE! Like holy hell dude, it's literally right in front of you in both name AND in the game tutorials.
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@Crowman said:
A lot of survivors simply don't respect that the killer is another player.
Survivors: Whine about killers not letting survivors have fun by just playing the game and doing their objective of killing them.
Survivors when it comes to making sure killers are also having fun: I sleep.
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@GannTM said:
Moris that need a complete rework imo are Wraith, Trapper, Hillbilly, Pig, and Freddy. There are a lot of cool animations including Plague, Ghostface, Oni, and Demo imo.
I dunno about the Freddy one, only cus it's an iconic kill ripped directly out from the movie. If anything make it gorier, with an actual meaty, bloody hole in their chest. But the kill itself is fine. Hard agree about the rest though, especially with Pig. Just seems too plain for a character like Amanda who comes from a series like SAW.
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How about we just remove all killers from the game? Boom. Problem solved. Welcome to Stroll By Daylight, the world's best jogging and M1 simulator.
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Omfg...
This mentality right here is the problem and it's so damn hypocritical.
"Oh I didn't have fun playing this game cus the killer decided to camp/tunnel me." *Says the survivors who knock out 3 gens in 2 minutes with the killer having gotten just 1 hook in.*
Honestly I'm tired of this kind of entitled mentality. "What about the survivors fun, what about my fun?" Yeah well what about my fun as the killer? You think I enjoy having to constantly sweat out matches every time I queue up? You think I have fun when I have to go against SWF death squads who bully me and hold the game hostage until they get bored? You think I enjoy being ran through endless god loops over and and over, getting tea bag taunted all along the way? You think I enjoy only ever having to play the same killers over and over again with the same meta perks and builds? No, I don't. I too would like to have fun and play chill every now and again too you know.
It's funny I wonder if the people with this kind of mentality act the same way in other games? If you play Counter Strike or any kind of battle royal game, do you cry about how "They're not thinking about my fun" if you're the first one to die for multiple rounds? It's even funnier that earlier you said that gen rushing is OK cus it helps the survivors get their goal and get a 4 man escape. Oh so that's ok to do, but the killer (whose objective is to -KILL- you) isn't allowed to do their job as efficiently as possible? In fact how many threads are on here with survivors saying that "Killers aren't entitled to 4K games". Ok, well then the same applies to you survivors, you're not entitled to a 4 man escape.
TL;DR - Quit this BS mentality of how the game revolves around the fun of the survivors. Killers like to have fun too, and none of you ever consider whether we're having fun or not. And again it's very hypocritical to say only survivors can do everything and anything to do their job aas efficiently as possible but killers should be beaten with a baseball bat if they even think about hooking the same survivor twice in a row.
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@QueenUni_xo10 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2287056#Comment_2287056
I mean yeah i would still say nemesis is broken because he destroys loops. With the doctor although you get shocked if you can predict his movement you can use the pallet or window before his shock comes into effect. with that though doctor has to use his abilities to expose your location. nemesis just needs you to be contaminated for you to begin violently coughing every few seconds. So if your hiding when he appears you get caught. Doctor needs to predict where you are to reveal your location
I mean...the coughing really isn't as useful as you think it is, trust me. Also Doctor has something better, he has you screaming at random intervals PLUS the illusion Doctor's that give away your location, AND he can hide his red stain and stick it on to you, just to further mess with you. As for Nemesis, I ran a little experiment with me and a friend. I played as Plague and puked on them and counted the intervals between the coughs. You end up coughing every 1-1.5 seconds. With Nemesis and his infection, you cough roughly around every 16-18 seconds on average (had it go off closer to 20 seconds some times, and sometimes had it go off closer to 15, but average was in between 16 and 18). So yeah, the cough...not really as good as you think. Especially when with Plague it's more consistent. And you want to talk about how Nemesis destroys loops when Nurse exists? Nemesis doesn't hold a candle to her game breaking ability. The only time Nemesis "breaks loops" is when you're in mid animation vaulting or throwing a pallet, but then at that point every killer with a ranged ability is broken (see Huntress, Deathslinger, Trickster to a degree, and Plague with red vomit).
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@QueenUni_xo10 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2286676#Comment_2286676
Other killers may have the same concept to ignore pallets or go through windows, but with nemesis you cant escape. He can hit through pallets windows making it impossible to escape because even if he misses, he doesn't take that long to be back to normal and his tier 2 can break pallets making any loops useless
I was gonna say, you think Nemesis is bad? Oh man wait until you hear about this one killer called "The Doctor" and see what he can do for not just pallets, but vaulting too.
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@TheClownIsKing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2286969#Comment_2286969
Survivors can get rid of Plagues tracking whenever they please, and don’t have Zombies to worry about. After vaccines are gone survivors can’t do anything about contamination, even when at full health. This is why it isn’t as severe as Plague.
People only see numbers. Nobody seems to look at the big picture when it comes to match dynamics
The zombies, which has been pointed out many many times on here are basically a non-factor as well, given how RNG dependent they are. Some games, they are useful. Other games, they are literally stuck on a tree in the corner of the map. Small maps, they can be very oppressive yes. Large maps, they are basically borderline useless. So adding in an RNG element to make up for the fact that the infection mechanic is weak, is not an excuse. That'd be like if Plagues red vomit was RNG dependent where it occurred on a random timer, rather than her being able to just drink from a fountain whenever she wants. That's not an excuse.
Plus this still doesn't take away from my initial point of his power STILL being broken and having a part of it being literally useless. He needs to be looked at and have his power re-worked. At the very least, if they don't want to re-work it then fix what we currently have.
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@TheClownIsKing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2286611#Comment_2286611
“and that's not even touching how useless and non-threatening actually being infected is for survivors.”
You mean the part where it doesn’t matter if you’re at full health, and either Nemesis or Zombies will always hear where you are? I.e. a good tracking tool?
Yeah, not useful at all......
The coughing? Really? That's the big benefit for the infection? Ok. Tell you what, let's go with that because I actually have the numbers for this too. Did a custom game with a friend to test the effectiveness of Plague's sickness vs Nemesis' contamination and this is what I found. At base level infection for Plague, meaning you're not broken yet and your infection meter is yellow, and you're not injured yet, you let out a cough roughly every 1-1.5 seconds. For the sake of giving some leeway, we can round up and say roughly every 1-2 seconds infected survivors let out a cough. For Nemesis, again at base level, meaning just one tentacle slap and the survivor being at full health, the survivor lets out a cough roughly every 16-18 seconds on average. Again, we can round the numbers and say 15-20 seconds. So yeah...even this little "useful bit of his power" is still very weak and basically a non-factor, especially when compared to another killer with a similar infection mechanic. 1-2 seconds vs 15-20 seconds isn't even close. Also, this is just a side note but apparently if you emote spam as a survivor you can mitigate the coughing sounds. Friend was pointing spamming on survivor and the coughs were either interrupted or she was completely quiet while emoting. I didn't bother doing this on Nemesis, because again the coughs are just so sporadic for his infection, but I assume the same can be done to mitigate the coughs.
But yes, do go on about about how these sporadic coughs are such a massive gift for the Nemesis and just how dangerous it is for the poor poor survivors...every 15-20 seconds.
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@Micheal said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2286526#Comment_2286526
Oh I see then just get rid of speed boost
Did you not read what I said after the speed boost part? Getting rid of the speed boost still doesn't fix him because the hindered status is only applied for 0.25 seconds, and when Nemesis connects with his tentacle he always goes through an attack cooldown animation for 2 seconds. It's not just the speed boost, it's him and his power that needs to be looked at and fixed.
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Nemesis is definitely broken. His initial tentacle slap that infects is supposed to apply hindered but you'd never know because of two things. The first is the speed boost that survivors get from the infection hit, automatically negates the hindered effect flat out. So ok, take away the speed boost and he'll be fine right? Nope, wrong again. The reason for that is because 1) when Nemesis lands a hit with his tentacle he still has a cool down animation of 2 seconds. The next, and honestly this is probably the biggest glaring issue, is because of this:
The hindered effect only lasts for 0.25 seconds after it's applied... So yeah, there is no actual way for the player to take advantage of the status effect because of how the mechanics are set in the game. His power is literally broken, and that's not even touching how useless and non-threatening actually being infected is for survivors.
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Ok so...here's something for some of the "Oh Nemesis is OP!" folk here. Regardless what -YOU- personally think about him, he is an actual broken killer, and by broken I mean his kit is not functioning properly at all. Allow me to explain.
A portion of Nemesis' power, is that he is supposed to inflict the hindered status effect to the survivors when he slaps them with the tentacle for the first time, the actual infection hit. However, you would never know this for a couple of reasons. The first is the obvious, survivors are given a speed boost when they're hit the first time with tentacle. The speed boost alone negates the hindered effect right out the gate. Hard to really capitalize off of the status effect you just applied to someone when they've run off with a case of the zoomies halfway across the map. So ok, now you're gonna say "just take away the speed boost and it's fixed right, working as intended?" You would be wrong again.
The way it works right now in game, is that the hindered effect when applied is actually only applied for such a RIDICULOUSLY laughable amount of time.
When infected the survivors only are afflicted by hindered for 0.25 seconds. "Oh but without the speed boost you can still cover some ground on the survivor for that small amount of time right?" Wrong again! You see when Nemesis connects with his tentacle he still has to go through a cooldown attack animation for 2 seconds. Now, I don't know about you but according to my math, you are still in your cooldown animation by the time the hindered effect wears off, meaning that even without the speed boost you would still lose ground and survivor will have again put some distance between you, without having taken ANY damage and with you never being able to capitalize off of a portion of your own power with the applied status effect.
So literally no matter what you do as a player, due to the mechanics of the game you will never be able to make use of this part of your power or benefit from it at all. That right there is an actual example of a broken and useless power, and that's not even pointing out that being infected has no real negative consequences for the survivors. They obviously aren't affected by hindered with the initial infection slap. They are not prevented from healing, or heal slower, or have any sort of negatives applied to skillchecks or any of their abilities. Instead...they cough...sporadically....VERY sporadically. Again, there is no reason outside of the tentacle being able to damage them now, for them to want to cleanse themselves. Now unlike Plague who does have a similar effect of infecting others, her infection actually gives you a reason to want to cleanse it. The longer you have her puke on you, then over time you'll eventually be broken and unable to heal. Plus you are coughing way more and vomiting as well. For the survivors being infected by Plague is something you want to avoid or get rid of ASAP because of the effects it has on you, and what it can eventually grow in to. That is not a factor for Nemesis and in fact vaccinating yourself right now from the T-Virus actually punishes Nemesis for using his power because now he has to hit you three more times with his power, and again survivors get yet ANOTHER free speed boost from the initial infection hit that causes no damage.
So yeah, his power is indeed very much broken and I'm guessing not working anywhere near as intended. At least I hope so, because if any of this was intentional then that only makes me wonder ######### BHVR was thinking? What was the point of giving him a status effect for his power that he can never capitalize on? What was the point of making it so that survivors can get free speed boosts multiple times in game just by vaccinating themselves? None of that makes any actual sense. I really hope BHVR fixes him sooner rather than later.
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No mercy for Megs...
(This message brought to you in part by The Nemesis Tentacle Yeet Society)
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@LeleLP said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2285983#Comment_2285983
I don't hold it against the killer for capitalizing on another survivors stupid choices. But it's because they go "I WANT MY POINTS!" And go do something as stupid as that they drag down another player with them. Just incredibly frustrating.
Again, survivors do it too with their bully and ninja squads. I have personally been on the receiving end of both of those. It happens. You get pissed. Take a break. Then move on to the next game.
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And then when we whack them or the person they unhooked right in our face they screech "QUIT TUNNELING! OMG, BAD KILLER, CAMPING HOOKS, WHAT A LOSER!" Like dude, you are literally in my face right now unhooking the guy I just put there. The hell do you expect me to do, pat you on the head and be like "Run along you little scamps you"
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@HulkRogan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2285830#Comment_2285830
So you're saying tunneling is okay and perfectly acceptable and that it's the survivor's fault? doesn't sound like you play much survivor
My guy, it's a PvP game where two sides combat each other. Survivors job is to escape by any means. Killers job is to stop and kill them by any means. That's the point of the game. It's not the Killer's job to coddle and take care of the survivor as if they're on the same team. Your objective as a survivor goes against mine as a killer.
Now take a look at it from the other side. You know how many games I get where I get god tier SWF teams that are just way too good at loops or being ninjas? Legit I had a game once where I saw only 1 survivor throughout the entire game. They were very well coordinated and during the small time I went on the chase for the one survivor three gens popped. Wasn't even a long chase either (they had purple tool boxes and BNPs. I honestly don't remember their perks though). But yeah they knocked out those gens so quick that I had no idea ######### was going on. So I said fine, if they wanna just slam gens and not chase or anything then I'll let them and just move on. Guess what? I de-pipped. I don't think those survivors really gave a damn about my fun or my rank.
It happens on both sides. You will get tunnelers, campers, gen rushers, and bully squads. All you can do is just move on and get to the next game. Accept your loss and push forward.