LordGlint
LordGlint
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@KatsuhxP said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3896644#Comment_3896644
What is the problem of people with descriptions in the forum at the moment? Can't you think yourself without reading it?
You know what also doesn't stand in ds? That you should run to the killer to waste his time. You what doesn't stand in otr? That you should use it to bodyblock. You know what never stood in the horsey perk? That you should run up to a crazy mainbuilding and make yourself unhookable.
Just because it doesn't stand there it doesn't mean it isn't possible or intended. Outside of that I don't care at all about the perk if I tunnel lol - it's punishing slugging not tunneling, it only activates after being slugged, not tunneled.
Flashbangs could only be dropped inside you after the unknown chapter and blinded you no matter where you looked. Flashlights could blind you outside your viewingfield what didn't ever make sense. But powerstruggle can only be avoided because you simply missed the palette, and that only if you're positioned badly, that's completely intended.
Considering that you can get power struggle to be active in as short as 7 seconds of being on the ground, I think it's countering more than just slugging. If the killer so much as looks around to ensure the coast is clear before picking up a survivor under a pallet, they're gonna get hit.
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@KatsuhxP said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3896566#Comment_3896566
That's good I can't say much to that myself, but I hope for you it works as good as you hope :D
I USE to play on PC, so I can feel the difference. It's agrivating when I just can't turn fast and accurate enough to get a hit I KNOW I would've hit before.
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@KatsuhxP said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3896317#Comment_3896317
How about we just keep the advantages and disadvantages (to a certain extend) of every plattform and just accept it? as far as I remember mouse and keyboard is coming to consoles anyways, so there's not even a need to invest a huge amount of money to switch then.
Controllers are especially for games where you want to look around quickly or precisely very bad, so I don't think we should nerf killers for all because the obviously worse way to controll a character can't do that. We should simply make the controls with Controllers as good as possible and try to get as close to m&k as possible (in this case would mean simply make it available for consoles player too), but I don't think we will ever get it 100%, because controllers simply are at a disadvantage because of how they work.
Balancing after controllers inability to do certain things would only make the game more boring.
(Btw this is kinda meant as an awnser to you, but I wrote it as awnser to you more because it fits pretty much for what I wanted to say. Just so you're not confused xD)
I'm really looking forward to the kb/m support update. I've been asking for this FOREVER.
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@Sngfun said:
Singularity makes this perk insane but it will mostly be useless with other killers
make yourself the following question: is new knockout better than rapid brutality? They are both insane on singularity but they activate at different times, and stacking them leaves you very vulnerable gen-pressure wise… so which is going to be the more consistent choice?
I feel like the difference THERE is how rapid is mostly for M1 killers while knockout can get use from M2 killers. Being able to catch up quicker as Bubba can be HUGE.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3896010#Comment_3896010
How does he need more counterplay? You play against him like any ranged killer, predrop and los denial/distance, and then literal free flamethrower turrets that are a radar and take him out of his power, or at least slow him down. Y'all would find a reason to nerf Ghost Face if you could.
So what im hearing is we should nerf Pig...
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@cesspoolechochamber said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3894613#Comment_3894613
Thanks for ignoring every other point to try to discredit anything I said by focusing on something thats insignificant in towards the message trying to be conveyed. Fyi the killer was already in the main building in toba landing while they were chasing another injured survivor. They dropped chase to run back to the hook even though they would of had an eventual down, but they took the chance to tunnel because it's easier to win and it gets survivors angry in end game.
I'm not trying to debate every point you made. I asked a question... that's all. How does a Deathslinger who is 4.4 m/s cross the map before the survivor can reach a pallet? It NOW sounds like they didn't. Being in the middle of the map already isn't "crossing" the map. It NOW sounds like they were pretty close already since once again... the survivor couldn't get to a single pallet.
Sidenote though... if a chase is going on in a strong structure like the main building of a map, it's not that crazy for the killer to drop chase after awhile. Try to do things like heal up in a relatively safe positionand not out in the open away from pallets.
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Would be really nice since chaos shuffle let's you use even perks that you haven't unlocked yet.
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@jajay119 said:
I think they should just do away with the PTB - put everything live as an ‘early access’ modifier and let anyone access it who wants to.
I don’t see the logic on a small subset of the fan base getting first comment and priority in feedback when they normally have to carry out further changes when it goes live in ‘the real world’ anyway.
That would inflate the size of the game since it would have to have both PTB and normal versions of everything. If theyre tweeking a map for example... the unchanged version is STILL in the files until everything is finalized.
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@tjt85 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3895655#Comment_3895655
The point I'm making is that there are two ways of trying to "go next". The first way is to eat a DC penalty and give everyone a bot to play with. The second way is to be like this Meg and try to die on first hook and follow the Killer around to point at hooks all game. Or throw all the pallets, spam vaults / get AFK crows to force the Killer to do something to stop those annoying notification explosions and generally just be a huge pain to everybody. Of these examples of Survivors "going next", the latter is clearly worse than a DC.
Who knows why this Meg wanted to go next. There will always be players that want out and they will probably continue to find ways of doing so even after BHVR have implemented their new prevention system. So at the very least, if players can choose to bot out without being hit by such a harsh, quickly escalating DC penalty, the match can still continue for the rest of the players.
Killers who want to avoid the penalty don't DC, but they might still AFK in the basement. That behaviour is arguably not much better than the Meg in this game.
Yeah... I'm gonna have to disagree with ya. If they're so determined to not play after joining a match that they're gonna just AFK or something, that's STILL preventing them from quickly jumping into another match. It's not IDEAL, but it's essentially a self imposed penalty in which they can cool down instead of hitting ready up 10 seconds later.
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@tjt85 said:
People in this thread are talking like it's only Survivors that "go next". A fair chunk of my Survivor "escapes" are from Killers that DC because they're not doing so well in the match. This is just as dissatisfying to experience, if not even more so, because it's so rare to be in a Survivor trial where things are going well for a change. Face it, this happens on both sides and I think the reason is an MMR system that barely works for anyone at this point.
I don't know what they can do to fix it, but it's not uncommon to have multiple hopeless games in a row with the current system and I think it's contributing to a lot of player frustration and the go next phenomenon. One of the things that struck me about 2V8 was the huge diversity of skill levels in every match. Some trails would have very skilled players in them and others would have players that were… well, let's just say they were less skilled and leave it at that. But it made for a lot of variety in the games. I wasn't around for the old emblem based rank system, but I get the impression that 2V8 is a lot like that older system. I don't know, maybe BHVR should try to bring a little bit more of that back into the match making?
That said, it would be harder to replicate such variety for 1v4, since it's much easier to target weaker Survivors with camping and tunnelling and dump them out of the game early. By forcing an early 3v1, the trial becomes a lost cause and I think a lot of players at this point are past playing for hatch, which is little more than a lucky consolation prize to a lot of players.
This will be a controversial opinion, I know. But I also think the DC penalty is overly harsh for such a casual game. It should max out at a little over the average duration of a game, imo. This would encourage players who want to "go next" to DC and at least give everyone else a bot to play with, instead of ruining the experience entirely for 4 other people. Of course, if this isn't a long enough time out, there's a risk that players will begin to routinely DC over every little thing, which wouldn't be any kind of solution either. But it might still be better than the present situation. I also think there should be a timer added to the DC process (one that gives you 10 seconds to back out of DCing and cool down after a moment of rage).
At least when the killers your talking about ragequit, they get a penalty so they can't keep doing it. It's odd that you say "going next" ruins your experience, but you want LESS penalty for ppl who do it.
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3895342#Comment_3895342
This. New content gets rushed out way too frequently and there’s never enough time to ensure a good quality product. Plenty of people keep buying the content even when it doesn’t work properly, so why would BHVR do anything differently?
After houndmaster, I'm definitely holding off. The content creators can be the ones to find out how buggy it is.
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@Cataca said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3894851#Comment_3894851
Still got a slot for slowdown and you dont even need to use the kick perks if your an anti loop killer plus the knockout slowdown stacks with other slowdowns like clown bottles and other slow perks
For sure. I'm gonna try it out on Bubba and maybe Nemesis since both can shred pallets. Just saying I've already tried various chase perk combos and if your using 3 perks on chase... it's pretty easy to fall short elsewhere. I tend to try to limit it to 2 chase perks at most.
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@cesspoolechochamber said:
So are they going to fix power struggle so killers can't swing out of the animation anymore.... Or they'll just let it be for another couple years
That's weird, I've never heard anyone bring up that power struggle was bugged. Hopefully they'll ride the momentum though with bug fixes, cuz there's so many of em that it's just become the norm.
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@Cataca said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3893159#Comment_3893159
Fire up, brutal strength, knockout this build is gonna catch up on Survs so fast
Yeah... and chase perks heavy loadout sounds nice til the gens start flying.
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@SummerBBQDwight said:
Thank God if this is the case, took forever to fix this.
Only remaining bug is still the audio being missing when around corners or walls (droping the flashbang).
Not sure if this means looking up will prevent a blind but... worth testing.
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@cesspoolechochamber said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3894192#Comment_3894192
This makes no sense, almost every horror game is based on the players surviving and winning. Imagine playing resident evil and getting to final boss fight and the game makes it unwinnable to beat. This is the problem with so many dbd players especially killer mains on this forum. You guys will gaslight make up every excuse to rationalize easy mode.
Also the point of the game is the thrill of the chase. It isn't necessarily to kill, that's a byproduct of chasing and downing 3 times. Just like escaping a match is byproduct of escaping chases and doing gens. People talk about the game isn't scary anymore or isn't horror based anymore. Well when you remove chases from the game by repeatedly nerfing everything that is safe for survivors. What's the point of running from the killer.
Just was in a match with a deathsliger on tobacco landing. First hook no gens done and the killer drops mid chase across the map to tunnel the Nancy on hook out. The Nancy wasn't even able to get to a pallet, not that it would mattered. The slinger was doing it just to anger everyone.
How does the killer crossed the map before a survivor can get to a pallet?
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3894273#Comment_3894273
Maybe if you try to look at this is a vacuum, but when you look at the whole the bigger picture is pretty obvious.
Killers have much larger win streaks is one piece. The devs have been pushing for a 60% kill rate, which is already a bit odd. They've flat out said they want the game to favor the killer.
Balancing more toward killer vs SWF, when 4 man SWF is only about 10% of the player base, and 40 ish percent when you factor in all group sizes. Solo queue, the 60% is left in the dust with a few scraps that "are supposed to make up for it".
Sacrificing the fun aspects of the game supposedly in the name of balance, is a competitive mindset. And I've never seen a game deliberately and intentionally go a competitive route, while at the same time saying "killers win about 51% of the time, and survivors win about 35% of the time, with the rest being draws". That's not balance.
All of those things, and more, is the broader picture that the game favors killers, by design, and by intention.
I'm not debating balance. It's about as effective as beating my head against a wall. The only thing I was pointing out was that it's easier to do streaks if you only have to manage your own time vs if your relying on 3 other ppl to log on. The ppl playing killer more than likely are playing significantly more games and making more attempts than the ppl trying to wrangle a 4 man SWF together to do THOSE streaks.
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@Rogue11 said:
I can't even get the forums to stop displaying menu options in french....
This COULD be the cause...
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3894273#Comment_3894273
I think this is true, but just reinforces the point @AmpersandUnderscore is making.
An elite 4 person SWF, that being 4 players who are all great at the game, have played together, and practiced clock call outs, are extremely rare. They are a subset of an already small group of players (general 4 person SWFs).
Because they are so incredibly rare it seems really strange to use them as the balance metric. One of the things that makes the killer role "easier" is the fact that you don't have to coordinate with a group to maximize your ability in the game.
My point was specifically towards the streaks that they were talking about and why killer streaks are generally higher than these 4 man survivor streaks. Its not really a balancing issue like ppl here like to claim it is.
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@TieBreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3894273#Comment_3894273
The scheduling thing is true. But survivor is always going to be the more unstable role, due to the fact that the killer plays alone, and survivors have to work together to win. You can find consistency playing killer, that just isn't feasible for survivors. Even players on coms make mistakes and screw over their teammates sometimes. That's just part of playing as a team.
I think that's why the game feels bad for survivors much of the time. The old BS we used to have helped compensate for how bad the average survivor experience is. Now that the game is more balanced at higher levels, the average survivor experience feels kind of crap as a result.
For sure. You also have to remember as survivor, you are going against different killers each game. That consistency REALLY goes out the window because different builds and playstyles are going to be significantly stronger or weaker based off the killer character you face. If you bring a medic build, it's gonna be completely ruined once a Plague shows up. I wouldn't say this is really a balancing conversation though. It just means survivors face more variety which can make long streaks hard.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3893923#Comment_3893923
Iirc, the current world record escape streak for a 4 man is by a comp level team and made it about 240 games. Solo queue is double digits, like 40ish.
But clown is over 800. Blight was almost 2000.
Your "500 streak" players should submit their evidence for the wr title.
When comparing streaks like this, it's important to remember that it's also just easier to schedule playing killer alone vs getting 3 other ppl together. Its very likely the ppl doing the killer streaks were also just playing more games in general than the ppl trying to get the same 4 man team together. Anyone who's ever tried to schedule a game of dungeons and dragons knows the struggle of getting a party to show up, lol.
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@TheArbiter said:
Not surprised, when anything is announced as getting gutted next patch everybody spams it, so expect a lot of games with it for the next few weeks unfortunately
That's usually the case with consumables. Ppl wanna use em up before they're useless. I don't really think that's QUITE the same thing here. Ppl who don't usually use a perk would have no reason to use it alot just because it's being changed.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3894041#Comment_3894041
I mean that Wesker exists as a more balanced version does not mean that Nurse should not be changed. In general I think that she probably would need to be reworked with a different power, because her power is broken and the goal should not be to make her unplayable, but this is probably the way you would have to go to make her current power not be broken.
If you want to keep the Blinks, she should probably not be able to blink through Walls, but maybe be able to blink through Pallets and Windows, but with limitations so that she cannot ignore them. I have also read the idea to limit her turning rate after coming out of a Blink, but I think this would just make her feel very sluggish.
But to be honest, I will not really invest the time into creating a Rework which might even keep the Blinks, but makes her balanced, but ideally still a strong Killer, because:
a) I dont get paid for that and therefore will not waste my freetime for it because
b) The Devs will not implement it anyway or actually go through with any Nerf to Nurse which would result in her not being at the top of S-Tier in every Tier List and
c) Killer Mains would protest simply because they think that Nurse is needed for those teams said Killer Mains dont encounter anyway.
But overall - the only thing which can make you win against a Nurse is that you hope she is not good at the game. And this is just a massive Flaw.
Alot of the times when were talking about essentially just replacing a power entirely, it just feels like they're reusing a killer skin and creating a completely different killer. It's less like Bubbas rework which just tweeked his chainsaw and more like Freddy's original rework that completely changed every aspect of his power. At that point... is it really even the same killer?
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3894017#Comment_3894017
Ideally Nurse gets changed in a way that she actually has to deal with Pallets or Windows. Which would not even mean that she needs to be bad, even strong A-Tier Killers like Dracula have to play around Windows and Pallets, even if they have ways to deal with them quickly or to make them much weaker.
But it is just silly that Nurse basically does not play DBD and is still allowed to do so. And it is equally silly that you basically cannot transfer any of your knowledge from the other Killers to Nurse and vice-versa. She should be more accessible for people trying to play her, but not as busted once you figured out how Blinks work, because at this point, you will win the majority of your games with ease, while having a steep learning curve which lets you feel like the dumbest person on earth.
And this is really bad design.
Speeding her up, and turning her power into one that's a forward movement with collision would essentially just be Wesker. What would your ideal difference be?
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Have you been seeing alot of map offerings? I've been using sac ward about every game just because map offerings are being used in around half my lobbies.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3894008#Comment_3894008
Which is why she should have higher movement speed and a drastically weaker ability.
Unless you completely scrap her power, you'd have the same complaints. Giving her Huntress speed with 1 blink or something would still result in her ignoring pallets.
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The problem with messing with Nurse's numbers any more is you have to ensure survivors can't outrun her by just holding W. She's slower than survivors while walking, she then has a charge period and a fatigue period where she loses even MORE ground. You cant put her in a state where her average speed is lower than 4.0 m/s when you factor all that in.
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@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3893786#Comment_3893786
Well, it will never end for the killer, because survivors do get replaced and it is up to the killer to keep playing or leave, right?
When killer DC/surrenders the game just ends. But I really wouldn't want killer bots. It would be just boring imo.
With how they explained things, the killer has the option of leaving if theyre playing with only bot survivors. I'd imagine they could do the other way around too if they have a bot killer. They already had them for 2v8 if a killer DCed.
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@PetTheDoggo said:
Issue is there are survivor challenges that need EGC activated and it would be very annoying if killer could just surrender at any point.
I don't think surrender mechanic should be able to hinder with challenges. This definetly would unless they bring killer bots, but that would be boring.
Preferably when surrender option is used in general, it just results in bots. It would ALSO suck if the game ended right before a killer could finish a mori challenge or something.
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@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3893462#Comment_3893462
A wheel or simple call out functions would be nice. Or comms either one.
For lobby loadout:
I mean thats just a downside of a benefit. Nothing is 100% in this game. The comms function above could be abused as well by trolls right? Nothing is perfect.
Your reason though is exactly what is wrong with survivor mode. If you dont want people to see your perks, honestly, we should just put you in your own mode where you want to play by yourself. Its a team game, team loadouts isnt foreign in…. any multiplayer game I can think of.
…. There is a reason SWF is able to do things SoloQ is not able to do. A lot of it has to do with how they synergize with eachother, and not stack open handed or multiple prove thyselves etc..
"oh Feng has this setup and Kate has this setup okay, let me try to compliment those. Or let me adjust my play KNOWing they have things like shoulder, deliverance, etc…"
Even MMO's have this with basic inspection functions.
Eventually youll get a game where people wont dodge your no mither, left behind key holder with hide perks. Whatever, its not like youll sit forever with no match. ESPECIALLY on survivor. You dont wait to play survivor in this game anymore. You wait to play killer.
Even the 2v8 mode does this to an extent, where it tells you what kind of composition you have (spotters, chasers, repair…ers, etc.)
The mobile version of this game did this just fine.
The amount of benefits for a lobby loadout team screen, completely outweighs the extreme minority amount of lobby dodging disadvantage that would even happen.I'm in no way debating whether we should have anything or not. I'm simply saying for every function that sounds like common sense to YOU, you have ppl who have argued against it. Its not a case of everyone wanting stuff that BHVR just doesnt deliver on.
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@Saiph said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3893413#Comment_3893413
Not only does the penalty NOT prevent Meg from doing this, but it does in fact prevent everyone from leaving BUT Meg. Look at the video you shared. The penalty did more harm than good even in the example you shared.
The go next penalty isn't in place yet. Ideally it WILL affect ppl like Meg once its implemented since currently we only have a penalty for DCes. Sidenote, I'm not the one who posted the video. I'm not the OP.
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@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3893455#Comment_3893455
Thats just something they have to moderate every team game does this.
Its just for dbd the decs dont want to im guessing as it would be too much work?
Even a basic ping wheel system would be better than the nothign we have now.
"Im saving"
"I have agro"
"Killer is missing"
"Using reassurance/for the people/shoulder" (x perk call outs that would be enabled when you have them equipped)
"Danger here" (alerting your less paying attention survivor of a meyers stalking you)
And of course a team loadout screen because its pretty obvious why this should be in the game.
Just basic problems the game has for the majority of survivor play that has 0 work done to combat it.A comms wheel would be nice, but for alot of this stuff that SEEMS obvious to you... many ppl do not want it. They don't WANT their teammates to see their perks because then you'd have ppl lobby dodging if someone is using a perk they don't like. No one wants to sit in the lobby forever because they DARED try to use an invocation perk or something.
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@ChuckingWong said:
For majority of survivor play its really simple. But the devs refuse to do it.
Devs: "We want to bridge the gap between soloQ and competitive swf"
What devs have not done to fix this simple problem:
-0 communication or coordination systems in a team game implemented.
a)No ping system
b)No in game chat system
c)No in game voice system
d)No teammate loadout in lobbies
Result: A bunch of people with different agendas on survivor that dont necessarily mean they want to engage in teamwork, winning, or escaping. Leading to matches that should never have happened at all.Can't really blame the devs for alot of this when they have ppl telling them they don't want these things. In-game chat has been brought up plenty and ppl make the argument it would just lead to an increased in toxicity from their teammates. They'd either get shouted at after a misplay or get left on hook or something if they choose to not use the chat.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3893405#Comment_3893405
We have a timeout. We have had a time out for years.
If timeouts worked, we would've seen a reduction in DC'ing. We did not, it all pivoted to suicides. We will just continue to play wac-a-mole with trying to force people to play the game.
The meg trying to suicide instead of DC shows she was trying to get into another match, not just leave this one. Like I said, this meg NEEDS a time out. She did not get one. I'm not trying to force her to play. I'm trying to force her to NOT play, hence... a time out.
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@Thesevenspirits said:
I get what you’re saying, and I’m not asking for killers to be removed or for the game to cater to every individual issue. My point is that allowing players to ban two killers and two maps would help reduce the number of people dodging matches, which is already happening anyway.
This wouldn’t change the core of the game, and it wouldn’t impact the experience for people who don’t use the system. It just gives players a way to avoid the matchups they personally don’t enjoy while letting the devs actually punish the "go next" players instead of just hoping they’ll stick around. Most people dodge because of specific killers or maps—not because they don’t like the game itself. This would just help keep games going more smoothly.
Its better to do that than to eliminate 1000s of players from the game
Having a killer ban like your saying though WOULD affect others though. An easy example would be Wesker after his release. He was SO popular for the longest time that plenty of ppl hated him from the sheer amount he was picked. If the ban function was allowed, those players would have a HUGE wait time as all of a sudden Weskerphobia is spreading and wildly contagious.
Similarly, you also have to remember SWFs exist. It's not just 1 or 2 killers/maps being removed. It would be 4 or 8.
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@Thesevenspirits said:
The best way to solve go next is to allow survivors pick 2 killers and 2 maps they never want to play on and you will see go next die a natural death. Most players go next because they either don't want to play against certain killer or on certain maps.
It's not an excuse I know but some players have phobias and react to different sounds different. Some may be high blood pressure and don't want to face jump scare killers, they want to know when a killer is coming.
Ithe same way some people can play killer because of motion sickness as a result of First person view.
I'm gonna respond to this in parts. Your example of motion sickness is fine, but generally ppl who suffer from it just avoid those killers or... just avoid the role entirely. BHVR has made steps to help with some of the most egregious examples by tweaking Clown's gas bottles to give you a nice dot to look at to help and stuff like that. Things like the Clown's gas that you have no control over has been tweaked. Things that you DO have control over like Playing Nurse is fully on you.
As far as handling different phobias and such... If you have a strong phobia like that, maybe you shouldn't be playing a horror game/ horror themed game with those aspects. It would be silly to have a phobia about Clowns and play Killer Clowns from outer space expecting the devs to give you an option to remove the Clowns. I'm not trying to be exclusive here, but just saying not EVERY game is going to appeal to every person and there's nothing wrong with that. Theres plenty of non-clown games out there for ppl with that phobia. Same thing with your high blood pressure. If it's a serious problem to be spooked, don't play the horror game.
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@Saiph said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3893349#Comment_3893349
The post you are thinking of does not say that Meg should or shouldn't be penalized, they are saying that penalties shouldn't be the focus of the discussion, because it's just a symptom of a more fundamental issue, and I agree. You are focusing way too hard on moral aspects that don't matter for a video game.
It doesn't matter who this Meg is, whether she's a bad person or not, or whether she just had a bad day. We've been trying this route for 4 years, only raising penalties, result: it doesn't work. Imo, this Meg shouldn't play DBD, but it's her problem - it's BHVR who's at fault for letting her ruin the game for other survivors. It is not bad to have altruism in a game, but the way it's implemented in DBD is horrible. You can't force 4 strangers who just met to all be altruistic with each other and call that "teamwork", it just goes against basic human instincts. You can't give one single survivor the power to entirely doom a match within 1 minute, without any opportunity for the 3 other survivors to counteract it. That's why I advocate for the game rebalancing the power discrepancy between 4v1 and 3v1.
I'm not saying meg is a bad person. I'm saying the very penalty itself IS BHVR stepping in so Meg can't do this. If they were just taking away BPs or something it would be different, but making the penalty a timeout function so an overly stressed player can cool off is the right move. The LAST thing that should happen is meg jumping right into another match.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3893342#Comment_3893342
There will always be things that frustrate players, yes. That isn't an excuse to not try to fix things.
I've no idea what Meg thinks. Maybe this was her first match, maybe it was her tenth. Maybe she's just a selfish ######### like you think, or maybe this was the straw that broke the camel's back.
When DBD works, it really works, and I think that's what draws us all to the game. There isn't another game that has a gameplay loop like DBD does. The issue is that DBD rarely works that way, in reality. Players will chase that perfect game because it's absurdly fun.
I'm all for doing the usual balance changes and such. The line IM drawing is ppl who insist BHVR needs to just fix all the frustrating things first before implementing a time out. The list of frustrations are ENDLESS. You can ALWAYS find stuff that you find frustrating no matter how much gets tweaked.
In this particular case, this meg NEEDS a timeout. Her immediately getting to go to another match is NOT a good thing if she's SO frustrated that she's doing this. If she's not adult enough to manage her own stress levels properly to give herself a cooldown period, it's not fair to just expect the ppl in her next match to deal with it.
After watching this clip, I actually decided to play a game as Demo cuz it's been awhile. I got absolutely demolished and I felt pretty frustrated. That's fairly normal. Depending on how bad it is will determine if I queue up again or do something else for awhile. I decided to give DBD a break and watched an anime, then played some warframe. Maybe tonight I'll hop on DBD again. I see the timeout function as essentially for ppl who for some reason CANT manage their stress lvl enough to do what I did and take a break.
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@BurnedTerrormisu said:
Dose it even count as working with survivors / working with killer?
No, because that's in times where survivors are acting against their own teammates to aid a killer. If they were trying to bodyblock their teammate during chase or pointing out a hiding spot to the killer... THEN it's working with the killer.
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@Saiph said:
No one denies that this type of people exists, and that they should be penalized. The problem is that we need a PRACTICAL solution, and so far, everything that BHVR has implemented has the same problem: it sounds very nice in theory, but always ends up terribly counterproductive in practice.
Let's examine your video. There is ALREADY a DC penalty, supposedly to prevent the exact scenario you shared. But what do we see?
- The crybaby finds a way to circumvent the penalty, and still manages to leave easily.
- Instead, the penalty now prevents the 3 other survivors to leave, who can't DC out of an unwinnable match.
So the debate is not whether this person is a crybaby or not. The debate is, what is the point of keeping or even increasing DC penalties, when the current system only punishes everybody but the crybaby. i.e., people who have to DC for legit reasons and have the decency to give their teammates a bot instead of staying AFK. Your video perfectly illustrates that. If the crybaby could DC, then at least the other survivors would get a bot. So, the "DC penalty" that is supposed to prevent DCs, ends up making them worse.
Now you might think the solution is to just get rid of the exploit (hook suicide) and improve the detection system so that the situation above does not happen anymore. If we were in an utopic world where everything can be perfectly implemented then I would agree with that approach. The problem is we're in the BHVR world, where somehow they always manage to get things implemented in such a naive way, people find a way to abuse it again before it's even live, AND they always end up making the problem worse somehow. It's been like this for the ~4 years that I've played this game, and at this point, I almost hope they don't touch anything anymore.
Imo the practical solution for the go-next problem would be a completely different approach. Since we can't fight go-next, the game should be rebalanced so that an early 1v3 is not game-ending for survivors. Let the baby go next or ban them, I don't care. But at least don't penalize the other 3 survivors for it.
Unfortunately you do infact have ppl denying that ppl like the meg should be penalized. You don't have to go any further than this very thread.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3893327#Comment_3893327
If you lack so much empathy that you can't understand how multiple matches like what I described is a HUGE issue with game design and negatively impact players, perhaps it's you who needs a break. Instead, you'd rather punish players for a BHVR issue.
Can't break it down more simply than this:
What you see in the video is a SYMPTOM of repeated poor design. Blaming people for being frustrated when mechanics are intentionally frustrating is ludicrous. Blaming them after years of feedback was given on how frustrating/annoying/unfun/etc etc a mechanic and/or a Killer is; well, it's downright unfair.
People have given feedback that tunneling is an issue for years. Same with proxy'ing, same with slugging. All of those have been functionally ignored until now. People have been giving feedback that the new maps are atrocious and that map reworks just make things worse. Ignored. People have been lamenting the design of newer Killers being, by and large, unpleasant for Survivors to face. That's been largely ignored.
When you ignore feedback from the majority of your player-base, consistently, I don't think you get to act shocked when people get fed up with the exact things they've been giving you feedback about.
There will ALWAYS be things that frustrate you. It's not possible to prevent that because as long as you're playing a PVP game, there will be a high likelihood you will lose any given match. What's not FAIR is giving someone a pass because the game previous they had a map they didn't like or a killer they didn't like, ect.
Are you telling me this Meg isn't frustrated anymore? The fact she is dodging the DC penalty like this tells me she's planning on IMMEDIATELY queuing up again. Why is it a good thing to let a person queue up again when they do THIS in a completely fair game?
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@Pulsar said:
What other posters here do not seem to account for is that this is likely not the first strike in these players' minds.
Yes, there are some people that will DC for nothing, but they are the VAST minority. Most people hop on to try to play some DBD and are met with frustrating match after frustrating match.
That causes burnout over time. Matches where you feel it was unfair or got tunneled or got camped or got slugged AND you don't get anything more than a paltry smattering of points for your efforts in being a good sport and playing them out, well, those matches add up until you eventually get something like this. All we see is someone raging after being downed, but that's all WE can see, not all that they've experienced.
A good start is addressing some problematic mechanics, true. I think they need to look at rewards for Survivors as well and scrap the MMR system entirely. Survivors get such low BP in general, which is a real kick-while-your-down when you just endured a whole bunch of miserable matches. Imo, BP cap should go, and max BP should be 64K for a perfect match. BP boosting offerings should be more common, BPS shouldn't be rarer than Syringes.
As for MMR, they either need to commit to the game being "competitive" and show us MMR or scrap it entirely and go back to an Emblem-esque system.
Fortunately BHVR is working on addressing the burnout of those survivors. Now they have time to cool off before going into their next match and ruining the game for 4 ppl who had nothing to do with the reason they're frustrated. If your frustrated from a previous match so much that you'll instantly give up like the meg in the video, you NEED a cooldown period.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3893288#Comment_3893288
Alot of times the only cause was they got found first
I mean, we agree on this part, although you seem to think it's pettiness the way you describe it.
Imo, the phase 2 issues of camping, tunneling, and slugging are the core problem here. It's not simply that "the survivor got found first", it's that "the most popular and meta ways that killers play the game mean that the first survivor to be found doesn't get to actually play a well rounded game".
Everything for survivors encourages will rounded gameplay. You should do gens, assist with recovery (unhooks, heals, mends), interact with the killers power, be chased, and get hooked. You can also opt to interact with the killer, killers perks (hexes, counter play), challenges, altruism, chests, and more.
But for reasons that's are entirely within the killers control, all of that will rounded gameplay becomes "get chased, hooked, and back to the lobby" for about 5k BP that you had basically no choice in. You got unlucky, found first, and don't really get to play that match. Good luck next game. Every game some nights.
I'm personally hopeful that phase 2 actually addresses some of these core problems, and the symptom that is the "go next epidemic" diminishes as well.
And lost a chase.
Why say this? Not being able to lose a chase might've been true years ago before 6.1.0, but infinites don't exist anymore, maps have been nerfed, tiles and pallets nerfed, tile spawn logic nerfed, and more changes have occurred since then. All of that means that survivors are literally supposed to lose chases by design. Sure, some people may make a mistake and be frustrated, but getting a map with massive dead zones and a single pallet held up by toothpicks can also be frustrating as well as hopeless.
The game only functions if survivor players have any hope that escape is possible. The fact that "go next" has become this much of a problem is a huge game health indicator that something is drastically wrong. Hopefully, phase 2 can address some of that.
Two things can be true at the same time. Tunneling and such exists... sure. That's annoying to get tunneled. That wasn't what happened here. In this particular example the survivor was quitting because they got downed too quick for their liking in a VERY fair chase.Theres nothing to "Fix" here. The idea that BHVR should just fix the stuff that makes Survivors DC becomes moot when you realize sometimes Survivors just DC/ragequit/suicide because they got downed.
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@MrMori said:
I just checked the wiki. I was under the impression that obsession perks guaranteed that the user would become the obsession unless someone else also brings an obsession perk, but it actually just increases the base 25% chance each survivor has. Exactly how I don't know, but it's not a guarantee that an obsession perk user becomes the obsession, even if no one else brought an obsession perk.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/EUUV2P0RSYJN/7b05229379-fbc4-4655-b91d-15573117c4cc-7d.png
I would assume that if there is a single obsession chance increasing perk, like DS in play, the chances of ther person that brings it becoming the obsession is 5/8 (62.5%), and 1/8 (12.5%) each for the other 3 survivors. If it stacks additively, this makes sense.
Or maybe it's 50% chance like th3 writes, if it works multiplicatively.
Math is abit off. If one person would have twice as much of a chance as anyone else, it would be 40% with the others being 20%.
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This is why I can't really agree when ppl insist BHVR should fix the stuff that causes survivors to "go next" instead of punishing the survivors with a penalty. Alot of times the only cause was they got found first and lost a chase. I made a similar post last week when my first 2 games with Pig had ppl doing this after 1 hook.
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@Daniel_Silva04 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3893235#Comment_3893235
What about Wesker? I honestly never understood why he has a 40m terror radius. Yes, he has the virulent bounds, but they are much more limited and cannot cross the entire map like Billy and Blight.
He can still close distance SUPER fast. Even if it's not across the map, how fast can he close the distance from going outside his TR to ontop of you. Wesker can travel roughly 20 meters in the timespan of 2 seconds. Map mobility isn't what determines Terror radius, otherwise deathslinger's wouldn't be high. It's determined by how close a killer is to a survivor that you should be wary.
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I was just waiting for someone to say Tru3talent, lol
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@KatsuhxP said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3892923#Comment_3892923
Mhh seems to be a very rare bug then, I'd be surprised when it got fixed without a patch somehow xD
Well dbd is also the game where you sometimes look like you're cheating, because spirit didn't loose her speed after phasing. I also only had this bug 1 time in my life and didn't use it because I was scared to get reported and punished for this xD
I remember getting permanant sprint burst speed as survivor once. Theres also all the times ppl have been able to just walk through walls.
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@angrychuck said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3892986#Comment_3892986
Oh thank god, I didn't even see that thanks for clarifying.
The devs saw the trolling from a mile away. You'd have whole teams with plot twist+no mither ending matches in 3 seconds.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3892529#Comment_3892529
Agreed... I'd have thought after downing someone with an m1, apply all the temporary effects (blindness, recovery speed, etc, and alike) and have them stay even if the survivor is returned to the injured state (via FTP or saves). Instead of crawl speed, give a hinder instead for the same duration.
This would mean if the killer instant picks up and there is a save from their teammate, their teammate is still blinded, reduced vision and hindered when they atand up, and likely that teammate still needs to body block hard for them to reach safety, because the saved survivor is still "groggy" from the hit.
This would fit "Knockout" much better.
That would get quite abit of hate for applying to ppl who use DS.