LockerLurk
LockerLurk
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They also have twoo-frequent ability to aura read a Killer around walls again, and I have noticed in customs they still hit with flashlights when you look down and can do things like Reveal Ghostface or Stare Down Unknown from strange angles or distances.
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You know when people pick fights with others in this forum for no reason, I assume they are probably like 9 years old… and probably shouldn't play DBD.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3872569#Comment_3872569
Well they are doing that thing where you can play as a killer for events and such, which should hopefully help address this somewhat…
I fundamentally believe the best way to learn survivor is to play killer. Knowing how the killers power works is the first major step to understanding the killer, and then knowing the killers limitations is the second… you get both so much quicker playing the killer than playing against them as survivor. After that it's practice and optimising movement, which is only earned playing vs. the killer, but you can make up a lot of ground just having knowledge.
I have a friend who holds the opinion that vast majority of killers are overpowered for numerous reasons, and I've exasperatingly explained to him again and again that he has never played killer, so he doesn't know what the killer can do, and importantly what the killer can't do, so of course he thinks they're overpowered.
I mean anyone who plays with me will tell you I'm a total goober, but even I am better than a lot of players with 3 times my hours simply because I can read the game and I know how most things work. It is a slippery slope though, because I see so many bad plays from survivors where they give the killer exactly what they want and then are suprised when the game runs away from them… I've many times said "What the hell are you doing!? Where are these idiots when I'm playing killer!?" xD
And unfortunately it seems a lot of people only play one side, because I see a lot of complaining from Survivors here about how overpowered every single Killer is - including Stealth Killers and even once, Trapper. Trapper? Yes, Trapper.
I also see a lot of Killer only Players complain about flashlights, not because they are annoying (they are) but because they are "overpowered". Um, in all my thousands of hours of play, confession time, I have only managed to blind with a flashlight a grand total of… two times. They made Flashlights easier, and some of us still cannot use them.
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MFT being meta led to one of the worst metas the game has ever had for Killer players, killed M1 Killers dead, and ruined Killer diversity. It boosted Survivors to places they couldn't handle after it was nerfed and it was too impactful for most everything. As it is now, it's fine, and still decent as well as a deterrent to tunnelling if you're M1. It's fine now and doesn't need a change, it should never go back to how it was rest in piss it won't be missed.
DH probably was fine after its first rework but OLD old DH was as problematic as old MFT was. I don't think it should be touched again, it still works fine even with the activation conditions it has now.
No perk should ever completely negate a basic gameplay tool (lunging for DH) or require bringing certain perks or addons every game to avoid (MFT with exhaustion tools).
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@solarjin1 said:
no one left need a rework outside skull merchant.
A few more killers could use some buffs like trapper and ghost face. Behavior have pretty much touch up most of the killers roster at this point.
I agree, no major reworks needed in the near future after Skurchent, IMHO.
But as you said, several Killers really need some buffs or bugfixes, a rework to certain mechanics, and maybe an addon pass. Pyramid Head could use an addon pass, I think maybe Ghostface could have some addons looked at and also fixed Reveal and Lean. Plague, Legion, and Pinhead all need touchups as I stated above.
I think almost everyone else just needs minor stuff to make them feel better to play.
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Ghostface needs some bugfixes and a repair to Reveal. Plague and Legion badly need reworks. Pinhead has some issues to address. Skull Merchant needs another full rework. I don't think anyone else needs much.
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Map offerings should not be allowed in Chaos Shuffle, points offerings only.
Items and addons should be randomized both sides.
That is randomness.
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I'm not sure if you disagree with my post or not, but the point is both sides abuse stuff and it's not fair to blame one or the other just because one side is the underdog.
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@R3b3l54TTV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3872464#Comment_3872464
You missed my point. My findings were based on the way everyone here was speaking about the situation. It made me giggle more than anything because it's how ever discussion about gameplay goes.
You're not wrong that both sides abuse the game. But I think you are wrong about devi working to fix all these concerns, especially since some concerns have only been made worse by their updates.
Ah, sorry, I missed the sarcasm. :)
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Where was I making this Us vs. Them, Ayodam? Did you mix me up with buggybug whose comment was deleted? I didn't start this fire at all, you were late to the party. :(
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3872429#Comment_3872429
Survivors no longer have “Gen rush” tool boxes and they can’t choose their perks in Chaos Shuffle. The perks I’ve gotten as survivor in this game mode have been largely awful and as for Gen perks, the only ones I’ve seen personally are Corrective Action and Technician.
Commodius with a BNP Spool. Yes they do, I have used them in conjunction with a SWF.
I am sorry, but I am not accepting one-sided arguments as responses. -
@R3b3l54TTV said:
All I have gathered from this thread:
1. Killers can/will/do abuse game mechanics to get a 4k by any means, or to just generally annoy opponents because they can. Except for those who don't use DBD as a way to take out their anger on the world.
2. If survivors fail to survive it's only for a lack of skill because the game mechanics are designed so that a killer can/will/do abuse them to get a 4k by any means.
3. Devs will never regulate the abuse of game mechanics and are going to supply bots in the queue to keep killers happy because killers are more important than survivors.
4. You're not allowed to view any killers or survivors as inherently cruel griefers because that's how the game mechanics work.
Hi friend, let's make this less needlessly us vs. them friend! Because Us vs. Them hurts us all!
What cna be gathered from this thread:
1) Players on both sides can/will/do abuse game mechanics to get a win by any means, or generally annoy opponents because they can.
2) If a player fails to win, it's only for a lack of skill because the game unfortunately allows people to abuse game mechanics to get a win by any means.
3) Devs are trying their hardest to regulate game mechanics abuse, but the players keep finding new ways to abuse new bugs, meaning this is a whackamole situation, and nobody is inherently valued more than anyone else in the game regardless of role or opinion.
4) You're not allowed to view people who abuse glitches and unintended combos as griefers because people like to win.
See? Much better when you don't blame one side for every evil in the game, because we all suffer when people abuse things to tilt the scales in their favor. Not just Survivors.Please take a break from the game.
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@buggybug said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3871817#Comment_3871817
Like Killer's dont do the same thing whenever slugging complaints are made and it ways use ub and expo cause they are so strong right?
Five minutes, buggybug.
Can you stop bringing needless us vs. them about how your side has it OMG sooooo hard😟into discussions that are completelt measured and polite and have nothing to do with the issues Survivors face… for five measly minutes?
The answer to seeing Killers complain, buggy, is not to immediately derail the conversation and make it about your side, but to empathize with the possible ways the game could be difficult for the Killer side, ideally because you play Killer and know how crappy being hit by a perk you didn't expect feels, but even more ideally because basic human empathy for others makes the world go around. Like it or not, Killer players exist and sometimes the game feels bad for them, and despite what you may want, they also have the right to vent and have discussions about it. Survivor related issues existing has never changed that nor ever will.
My guy… We know they exist. We all know by now. Bringing it up in discussions that it isn't being discussed in does not make your already valid concerns more valid, it actually cheapens them and makes Survivors look like a bunch of whiny crybabies instead - which we all know isn't true.
We all know Survivor Mains have it hard too, and that there's BS they deal with too… because there are posters that apparently make "I'm an oppressed Survivor Main, boo hoo" their entire persona on this forum, the same way there are Killer Mains here making "I'm an oppressed Killer Main, boo hoo" their entire persona. And it's annoying either way. People are over it.
No wonder nobody takes people seriously around here when so many of us post like this!
Shame on you for derailing the thread, you are way too old for this behavior. Either add to the discussion or post your complaint elsewhere in a thread about Survivor complaints. It's not all about you and your side, bro.
You're better than this. BE better than this.
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3872424#Comment_3872424
If they implemented this, then slugging and leaving indefinitely would be taking the game hostage and reportable. You wouldn't be laying long at all. Bet.
I think it's more likely, unfortunately, that people would just DC while being slugged.
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@BlightedDolphin said:
The extra second makes no difference to killers like Nurse or Blight but is way too punishing for M1 and weak killers. 4 seconds is a good middle ground where it's not as short as 3 seconds, but not as punishing as 5 seconds.
Rather than increase the stun time, make Nurse and Blight not so good at tunnelling because an extra 1 second isn't going to do anything to them.
Personally even when I play weak M1s like Legion I have no issue handling 4 seconds of DS, it is not that punishing and I barely feel it, which is fine. 5 seconds was, as you said, too much, but 3 seconds didn't do enough. So 4 seconds? Just right.
I agree, Nurse and Blight should be made less good at tunnelling, I just don't know how you'd do that without total Killer reworks.
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@Dadeordye said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3871772#Comment_3871772
I've been playing this game for 3 years now and still EVERYTIME it's hatch time my heart start to pump faster no matter if I'm a killer or surv.🤩
I'm with you friend, I LOVE hatch game on both sides! So tense!
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It may be due to time of day or the region.
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Here's the issue… this isn't just bad Killer Behavior.
It's bad Survivor Behavior too.
Both sides are being absolute ######### to each other, they do every event, and it's always at the start of it because that's when the event lurkers return. It ruins events for everyone and forces everyone to play sweatier, yet BHVR insists on doing these at the start of the season and not just doing it after rank re-sweat is over… why? I do not know. I genuinely don't know.
But Entity help me I am tired of slugging, tunnelling, four gen perks, and genrush toolboxes with SWF-sided map offerings every. Single. Match at the start of events.
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I dislike Knockout and want it changed, too, it's a perk for slugging.
But blaming the Killer for your teammates not coming to help you is a really, really bad look.
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The box is fine, but his chains badly need to be stronger. Pinhead's main issue is that his chases are much too long, and too weak overall because of how little his chains can really do in chase. I would like to see them be used more like a projectile tool, or at least harm or hinder Survivors breaking free of them, because using the chains is the most fun part of the Killer and actually takes a lot of skill to do well.
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3871738#Comment_3871738
Might be a hot take, but I'd like the bleedout mechanic just removed or increased to 10 minutes?
My thought process is right now, slugging/bleeding out is the most time efficient and success efficient way to win games and keep queueing up. If this process is prolonged at some point, in this case bleedout timers being huge, it will begin wasting killer time as well and discourage such behaviour.
This method doesn't remove the mechanic, so it is still viable when slugging is called for as the play, such as survivors swarming with flashlights after a down.
Thoughts?
I can't agree with 10 minute bleedout or lack of bleedout. I do not want to be permanently slugged or sit there for ten minutes. I'm sorry. :( Too abusable. The only way I'd agree to no bleedout/longer bleedout is if everyone being downed instantly ended the round in a Null - no Killer win, no Survivor win. but you get the points you got. Slugging people this way should never be a goal or a wincon. Slugging should always only be tactical and limited in how long you do it for. Your goal ought to be hooking not slugging.
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@FMG15 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3869613#Comment_3869613
They tried it in the worst way possible. Unbreakable was overpowered beyond belief. There just shouldn't be any perk outside of no mither that allows you to pick yourself up faster if we implement basekit unbreakable.
They should try it again but make it much weakerI'm interested in seeing how you'd make it weaker, any idea?
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@Goblin_BHVR said:
Hello!
I'd like to clarify that this is ONLY for PTBs and Event queues and will not be affecting live matches.
DO. NOT. DO. THIS.
Nobody wants to play with bots, ever. They aren't fun to chase as Killer, they aren't fun to play with as Survivor. We can tell how bots act. We know what bots behave like by now. People can and will DC from lobbies with bots in them because bots are not fun to play with.
Oh, and events ARE live matches. They're on live servers. Keep them in the PTB, do not add bots to live queues. I promise we're all fine with waiting about 10 minutes for a match, max.
If you add bots to live servers to fill queues, it can and will kill this game. If you add them to the events/modes, it will kill that event/mode. If BHVR makes this decision, many people are very willing to uninstall this game. Myself included.
As a Killer Main I do not wanna play with bots. As a Survivor enjoyer sometimes, I do not want to play with bots. I don't want my first round when Dredge, my Main, comes to 2v8 to be against bots. I don't want my friend who mains Ghostface and Plague to have to deal with bots that can reveal through walls and won't ever touch a fountain when they come to 2v8, that isn't FAIR to them or the Survivors they're paired with.
I especially do not want bots to ruin the events and modes I have so come to love. Don't take this from us. -
@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3871608#Comment_3871608
agree. at the same time, i think it varies for how big loop is. some of the loops they have are far too short especially in the corner of the map. in my opinion, the corner map pallets should be safest because the killer can zone pallet breaks while middle of the map pallets should be unsafe because they can be chained into many different resources.
it would be interesting if they made like a map where you have Z-walls in middle connected to like weak pallets with like a long-wall facing the weak pallet and Z-wall.
Frankly I agree, why don't they put weaker pallets in stronger loops, and stronger pallets in like, weak junk tiles? Make the time-buy stuff stronger, but make the actual tiles themselves a bit weaker? It seems they are trying to do just that.
And honestly @Xernoton I would not bother with the person you're talking to. They seem to just want to argue that Survivor gets nothing but Killer gets everything, which is demonstrably not true looking at the past year for this game - plenty was nerfed for Killer side too, and arguably for some Killers could still use some nerfing. Other things could be buffed. Same for Survivor side, some things badly need looking at because they are too strong, but most of the perks need buffs. -
@smurf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3871739#Comment_3871739
They have people reading the forums, though I have no idea how much of what we say they think is worth listening to :)
But I would love it if they said they listen to fog whisperers by going into matches with that purple murky fog offering and running Whispers.
I think the issue is, people here are quite serious-minded in some ways about the game. BHVR clearly seems to care more about casual players, not competitive ones, and despite what people here claim about being casual, I think we're all more competitive than we like to admit. That is, we tend to care about winning, strategy, and really in depth tactics more. We're the people studying how to loop effectively and what Killers are strong or weak, worrying about perk synergy, etc.
The average player, that is the majority of the community, doesn't. They barely read all of the perks in the game, then get confused why a Killer running Friends til the End was able to one hit down them but only made their friend scream when they got unhooked.
BHVR balances for the average player, the mediocre but not terrible player. They don't balance for newbies or the old hardheaded DBD hardcores. They don't balance as much for people super familiar with the game. They know people like us will be fine and make do, and that if newbies don't learn quickly they will just quit, I think.
Frankly? Game should be easier for everyone, both sides. We need robust tutorials and help for newcomers. We need to keep what we do for intermediate players and casuals. And then we need some extra option you can unlock or opt into for hardcore intense players. I just don't know how we'd achieve all that.
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@TwinsMain2004 said:
the comments here are astounding
bro is just mildly annoyed on how good adren can be sometimes and yall are acting like he said it's the best perk in the game and doing whataboutism left and right with killer perks
one guy even said "Use Terminus 😎" like bro he didn't ask how to counter it or ask how to waste a perk slot
That seems very common with people here who seem to take more of a Survivor-favored approach. A lot of complaining and overreacting to vague vent posts about stuff when Killer concerns are raised, but eager to defend, deflect, deny, and reverse blame when it's Survivor-related.
At some point, regardless of who is doing it, it's all just holding the patties of the people on your favored side and wiping away salty tears over nothing while going "there there, we all know it's not fair and BHVR favors [Opposite side] anyway, you're so right bestie" when it's really just being upset that a broken toy got fixed to be more balanced and less abusable.
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@jmwjmw27 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3871659#Comment_3871659
To be fair you can also do that while slugged as you still see everyone.
But I agree that it is boring and at the very least the idea of someone being able to waste 4 minutes of your time with no counteracting that should be removed. Self bleed out maybe.
I'm with you and @Spare_Them_Mori_Me basically. Bleedout shouldn't be 4 minutes. Nothing else in this game is 4 minutes. If someone doesn't save you or you don't get up after about 2, it's over. Everything else is capped at 2 minutes or less. So why the hell is a bleedout the exception to the 2 minute rule?
When games last max 10-15, rarely 20 minutes, 4 minutes of being on the ground is an ETERNITY. Being slugged sucks, laying on the ground for four minutes sucks. It does not need to be this way.
Address 4 minute bleedouts and truly toxic slugging. Then we can address genrushing and how fast rounds feel at the start, which is often what triggers or conditions Killers (either in a single round or over time) to want to play like this.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3870232#Comment_3870232
I think there's less whataboutism than most would believe, and more of trying to show people why something is broken or why their idea wouldn't work. They say buff DS, I say that'll create slugging. I say SWF debuff, they say that's anti-friends. I think sometimes the counterarguments are accepted rather than ignored, but not to the extent where they change their mind. That why in your initial paragraph, I thought you were being serious and reasonable.
I do see legitimate hardcore detractors though, like "You just don't want our side to do ANYTHING!" or semantics about logic and definitions, or tone policing. I really don't mind the us vs them mentality as long as it doesn't become that stuff, and as long as valid points are being made. I've tried my best to make compromises, but sometimes there's just nothing to work with. The devs have got to stop hiding MMR and making everyone think they're a top player. It's the #1 barrier to discussions.
@smurf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3871599#Comment_3871599
I think you make a good point that as long as arguments are made honestly, it's best to have people advocating for both roles to prevent some very one-sided updates.
I do also feel that there's a lot of disregard for the experience of other players by a non-zero fraction of the player base though. My biggest issue with the game in general is that there are a lot of mechanisms for making a particular player's experience worse. And that goes for both sides: The killer can tunnel, proxy camp, and slug for 4k, and survivors can try to bully the killer. Also, survivors can just go next and ruin the match for three other players. A lot of posts/comments I see appear to only consider one issue without considering the game balance and/or the experience of the 'opposing side'.
I think all of those should be gradually pushed out of the game with small updates that nerf those tactics over time in small increments, except in niche situations. Like in the endgame, probably most tactics are fine to try to save a survivor or secure a kill. And we shouldn't try to fix the issue of someone just having a bad match. But I guess we all acknowledge that we can't just take away those things suddenly or the game balance would be destroyed. But ultimately, I think tactics that make one player have a much worse experience than they need to have should be fixed over time. And I think a lot of the discussions that appear one-sided are a result of that kind of thing; that or inexperience…
Really though, I agree, we do need people pointing out all issues that players can experience so that BHVR gets to see the full spectrum of problems they need to balance for. And crowd-sourcing is a great way to do that.
I agree with you both. The problem is, people take things too emotionally and tend to think they or "their side" that they play is being attacked when all you're doing is stating reasonable things. It's like nobody knows how to debate rationally anymore, and it's upsetting to me. I can't say I have never been victim to letting emotion rule me, but at least I try not to. I wish more people would be like me, and like you two - you both seem to make good points (even if I disagree with some) and you both seem to also unfairly get yelled at for them.
Frankly? I think people take this game too personally, and especially take things like slugging, camping, tunnelling, endurance perks, etc, too personally. Why? Because the game says losing is your fault, but the game itself is random as all hell. Of course you will sometimes lose in a balanced game and of course if you're the underdog you will lose slightly more than the favored side. It's part of the experience of a horror assym. Does it sting less when you lose sometimes from what feels like bullshit? of course not.
I think if the game rewarded trying really hard more than winning, and gave Survivors more BP overall in general like Killers get? A lot of these complaints would vanish. The root frustration with all the biggest issues is, "but I didn't really get to play the game". So why not address it so you still get a decent amount of progress or stuff even if you lose? I don't see why losing has to be punished or frowned on so damn hard. Just another symptom of everyone being overly competitive, I guess…
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I feel like endurance is a necessary evil. On the one hand, we do need perks to help against tunnelling and endurance does that. On the other, it's a bandaid fix that feels bad whenever it's weaponized against a Killer who may already be struggling in a round. I don't think Endurance should count on protection hits personally, I think it should only become active if YOU are the one being chased. If ypu aren't and you run in, the endurance should be "saved" until you're directly the one being chased. That way, it only punishes tunnelling and can't be abused this way.
Then again, is it really wrong to let Survivors have this tactic at all? Taking hits for people is a part of the game, it's strategy, who's to say they are wrong for doing this?
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It's possible, but you should not admit to wanting to "snitch people out" here. That's called witch-hunting and it's pretty frowned upon both here and other places in the DBD community.
If you suspect a Legacy with an anon name, it's very possible they are cheating, you could check hours to be sure. If you cannot do that, I would dodge the lobby. If you get in the round with them and notice any other shady behavior, report them with video if possible.
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Dramaturgy is actually just really fun to play with, because you never know what you are going to get. It's not meta, because the haste and item options are as random as anything else it does. It can never be meta, it's just fun and also really funny on some Survivors. It isn't a strong perk, it's a fun perk, and frankly I think more perks overall should be that way - fun if they're not that strong.
Finesse is overall a decent perk in chase, but on its own not amazing in my experience. Rather, I find it more useful combined with something like Dance With Me or Lucky Star to lose the Killer. That's pretty much its only use. Some rare really good Loopers at higher levels can make Finesse and Lithe work, but I don't see it often. When I do see it, it can mess me up as an M1 Main, but thankfully most people aren't that smart about it and anything that causes Exhaustion can help fight against it.
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Slugging is something some Killers are better at than others, but it is usually a last resort and niche tool if you need pressure and genuinely can't find a hook in time. It should be used for nothing else.
I prefer to always hook if need be since I want the points and also to pip, and slugging does not give you pips. I genuinely don't understand people who play for slugs at 5 gens, it's boring, I want chases. IMHO, Slugging is only useful if you are a) desperate for pressure, b) there's a lot of Survs swarming and it makes sense to slug someone, c) you literally cannot find a hook in time, d) they are doing wiggle sabo tactics (slugging is the proper counterplay to this), e) you legitimately downed them and lost them and cannot find them again to hook. There is never any other reason to slug.
You don't need to leave downs for more than about 30 seconds in my experience, and unless your Killer excels at it, it shouldn't be your go-to playstyle. You simply don't need it, just take the loss if you lose and move on. I would like to see all toxic slugging eliminated, there's no reason to leave someone down for four minutes until they die - that's just rude.
This game is not Slug by Daylight nor is it meant to be. This game is not supposed to be about winning efficiently on any side, I don't care what your skill level is that is an excuse. If I can go in at my 4000 some hours, at my MMR (which isn't low, I get decent Survs all the time), and still 4k as an M1 Killer like Wraith or Trapper or Ghostface or Sadako without slugging everyone at five gens, so can anyone else. It's not that hard.
Learn to be okay with losing sometimes, and you will never have to slug for a 4k especially not at 5 gens in your entire Killer career. In fact the only time I ever have had to slug or had a 4k slug at five gens is against literal sabo-wiggle abuse squads and Survivors who don't know enough yet to realize that altruism isn't always the best policy.
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@HansLollos2 said:
Nah, i think it's fine. The Perk rewards a Killer for not tunneling/slugging, since you need to Hook every Survivor once. It's a really well designed Perk and not even that strong. 40 Seconds is nothing against a solid Team. And blocked gens also can't regress, the Regression is paused for as long as a gen is blocked.
I agree with you.
Personally, Grim Embrace is my go-to gen Perk. I dislike kicking gens more than I have to, I run this perk on everyone, and I don't mind having to spread hooks since I only ever tunnel if I have no real choice and need an out RIGHT NOW or it's an accident, or if you genuinely give me the chance to because you play badly. I usually pair it with something else if I need something strong. I prefer it to Pain Res because you eventually get to do the gens, it just keeps the early round under control for me so I don't get genrushed so hard as an M1 Killer.Now if I bring Pain Res, I actually am trying to win really hard. If I bring Pain Res and another Gen perk? That's overkill. I genuinely do not thinky ou need more than Grim E,brace and maybe one other weaker gen perk, or Pain Res. Hardly ever. At least, my consistent Kill percentage overall says I don't need more, so I am fine with that.
4 gen hold is overkill and cringe. You never need more than one maybe two. And depending on Killer and skill level with them, you need none at all for some, but only a select few. At least that is how I see it.
The issue IMHO with Pain res and Grim Embrace is not the perks. It's tunnelling. The issue is tunnelling. Address tunnelling and the perks are fine as they are right now with no further adjustments needed.All of the issues with these perks, and any perk that involves catching people, is 100% solved by looking at tunnelling. And frankly, truly toxic tunnelling isn't all that common, so it's a non issue.These perks are fine. Leave them be. No more changes needed. If Survivors need more help with chase, simply give them more chase perks or give them some way to handle themselves in chase better. Not too many, just enough to help them last about a minute because that is all you really need - in a well balanced game, chases shouldn't ever on either side last for more than about a minute, maybe a minute and a half. And they certainly should not last for multiple gens in a row ever, period.
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For the sake of M1 Killers, and because Killers all have different stun times? Yes. It was necessary. In fact the prevaling theory nbefore the buff was to just buff it to 4 seconds, It took them a while but BHVR did exactly what the community asked for.
If your issue is Nurse or Blight? DS was never designed to work well against them, they counter it. All perks, items, and Killer powers should have a counter. Having the ability to recover faster is DS's counter and that's OK. The issue you have is not with DS anyway… it's with some Killers being able to tunnel way way way better than others. That needs a mechanic or perk solution, not a Killer nerf or DS Buff solution.
All buffing DS further would do is disenfranchise 95% of Killers except Nurse and Blight and maybe a few others, and make the diversity of Killers you experience less varied. It isn't the solution and never will be, nor should it be considered. Stop touching DS.
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@ArkInk said:
They need to find a way to attract more survivors, not replace them. Honestly extremely disappointing. This is probably how 2v8 will return too :(
My thought is that rather than buff everyone, they need to just give Survivors more BP. People want BP. You see higher engagement when BP gain is 400% or more.
Permanently make it so Survs and Killers all invidiDually earn the same amount of BP, no one should be leaving a game with less than 10k BP PERIOD. There is no bloodpoint economy, enough is enough, JUST GIVE SURVIVORS MORE OF A REASON TO STAY AND EARN POINTS. -
@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3871300#Comment_3871300
The problem is, thye had to nerf it because too many people were abusing it to just sit in corner and hide and do nothing all round.
No, they really weren't. This is literally just a talking point advocates of deleting Distortion use. There was no epidemic of this. There was no proof of this at all. But when its repeated a bunch of times, its suddenly real and is cause for change.
If you disagree, please share your experiences. It does indeed happen. Happened to me last night. Its like Distortion had nothing to do with it and it was a player decision. Like Tunneling. Or Gen rushing.
But a sacrifice just had to be made. Can't appease pitchforks and torches with facts, someone or something must burn. And it was Distortion in this case.
Distortion was cool to have, but it was too much and people were not using it properly
Sounds like they were using it properly and thus, it needed to go. This is the dbd mentality and culture.
I think you may falsely be assuming I have malice for this perk. I do not. I used it a lot, it helped me.
But even I can realize, it was problematic. I saw other Survs on my team with this hide all round and do nothing helpful. I experienced it as Killer to the point I ceased to use any Aura read, it did not feel good.When Survivors hide all round and refuse to engage, it is frustrating and unfun for Killer. That's why it had to change despite it being helpful for new players. It countered too many things; no one perk should ever counter some 150+ things the other side has. Would it be OK if a Killer perk countered every gen perk Survs had 100% of the time? Of course not.
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For other convos here, realistically all I have to say is this: the fix is to have BHVR make it clear by taking the stance and explain that sometimes a tunnel, slug, camp, or genrush makes tactical sense. And then to define those as being tactical when done to pressure, win a game, or otherwise gain an advatnage. That means when someone humps your slug on the ground for 4 minutes that is toxic, simply because it's not tactical. When someone facecamps that is not tactical, when someone brings four BNP spool Cimmodius and genrus builds in a 4 man SWF that is meant to push the game super fast and then they Teabag endgate that is not tactical.
Put simply. BHVR has GOT to 100% define what the difference between toxic overkill behavior is, and what a simple tactical genrush, tunnel, slug, or camp is, because they are not the same thing and too many people conflate one for the other. You know when you see toxicity. Not all hardcore tactics are toxic.
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@smurf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3866927#Comment_3866927
I already play this way. As killer, I view any match with a 3k or 4k as a match where I did well, and I see a 1k or 2k as being alright. 0k makes me a little sad, but I can't currently remember the last time I had a 0k.
Likewise, I view any escape for my survivor as a good outcome, whether it's through the gate or the hatch. Basically, I still use the game as a bit of hopefully harmless escapism that lets me participate in a survival horror experience (however non-horrifying the game may be).
Honestly, I don't think the game should have any kind of 'win' condition at all, and BHVR should openly qnd strongly emphasize the lack of 'win' or 'loss' outcomes. Instead, they should encourage the experience the game is meant to provide. Currently, the community has latched onto the MMR conditions to define wins and losses, where the same thing that provides an MMR boost (3k or 4k) is what the community considers a win. Same with ties and losses. It may be that BHVR should make the MMR system more opaque to combat this, simply stating that they may be making updates to the system, but not revealing the way the system works at any time.
I see a lot of arguments that killers need a certain number of kills to have a good game, and it might be better if people felt less pressure to perform, and just wanted to have fun :)
I am a little buzzed rn as I'm with family and we went out, so IDK how much this will make sense, but I think you're right. I think we need to deincentivize MMR even more. Perhaps it would be better if BHVR said they're removing it but actially did not, would people's perceptions change?
MMR is a placebo effect. We all think we're top MMR but data says we're definitely not. If that's the case, never mention MMR again and asy it's being removed as a trial in a PTB but don't remove it. Then see who says what is happening. If changes occur based on play, then simply lie and say there is no MMR and it's been removed.
My thought is, if people do not know MMR exists (because they think there is none) they may chill out and think differently about games, that is less competitively. But when BHVR has advertised MMR as it has, now people see that as a challenge to best somehow, so people play more harsh to want to gain it. It becomes a commodity, not a system, because everyone wants the bragging rights of being high MMR, -
The answer is a bleedout option and a 2 minute bleedout timer. I'm sick of this.
I don't care if people abuse it or not it's better than a DC and a ######### bot.
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Because there's a limit to how much you can do it, it requires spreading out hooks, and it means you can't slug. It's sometimes able to be forced with tunnelling someone out but I think that's an oversight. With those qualifiers, the perk can be strong but it's certainly not problematic nor in need of any nerfs.
There are you know, more things to interact with in a Trial than just gens. You know that right?
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3870578#Comment_3870578
distortion is pretty useless now. stealth is like worse state that it has ever been in 8 years. virtually deleted from the game.
The problem is, thye had to nerf it because too many people were abusing it to just sit in corner and hide and do nothing all round. It became a huge issue if the person had it and they were one of the last two alive. it was also super awful if everyone decided they wanted it as it countered way way too many perks and addons and powers.
Distortion was cool to have, but it was too much and people were not using it properly. So BHVR dd the correct thing and nerfed the thing that made it obnoxious to face. -
In my experience full Aura builds are weak to pretty great depending on Killer running it.
I also want to remind everyone that Distortion wasn't nerfed to make Killer aura reading stronger. It was nerfed because people abused it to hide in corners and not help the team. They were already sandbagging.
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@notyarbllewe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3871286#Comment_3871286
I have said for so long that they should slow down on the chapters and go more into the health of the game.
Friend we are kindred spirits friend. :) I just think the game should be overall made much more open to being about getting as many points as possible, and reward that. Not just winning… and also it needs some cleanup. The game is nearly a decade old, it's time.
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Isn't Dramaturgy the perk that can sometimes expose you,do nothing but make you scream, or give you things like a broken key with mother's ring on it in addition to a teensy little haste? I have certainly never had an issue catching up yo anyone with a 25% Haste even as an M1…
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Because I like randomness and most people playing do too, friend. I don't like Plague but I'm not gonna be a child about it and go next if I get her, I also wouldn't block her.
This would just mean some Killers are never played against, some are, and everyone else gets stuck with sweatier games because you didn't want a Blight in your games. It's not fair to punish anyone for playing a character or perks or items they like with any sort of exclusion system. Map offerings are bad enough. -
I don't see why Stealthy Killers in general don't get smaller TRs. Would it hurt Sadako, Ghostface, or Wraith much to have their TRs be less outside of power since they're stealthy anyway?
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@notyarbllewe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3871267#Comment_3871267
Honestly, I don't know what they should do right now. What makes things still so hard right now is actually because of how big the game is. If they go a bit too far in one direction, he sparks tons of backlash, and they've learned that a lot over the years. That's like why there are still so many balancing issues. With how separated killer mains and survivor mains are, if the Devs give a fairly strong buff or nerf on either side, it'd make that side extremely angry.
I really think we need a MASSIVE health update before FNAF is added for sure…
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@YuffieGreatestWaifu said:
Actually, I endorse this along with stun reductions. Blinding and stunning should start very strong but as the game progresses the entity keeps making the killer stronger to the point where Survivors have to flee. That being said if your going to do this give Survivors abilties to get out of slugging as well.
Actually I fullheartedly support the idea of the Killer getting stronger and Survivors getting more desperate as the game unfolds! I thought unlockable abilities were a cool feature in Lights Out. :)
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@justadreampallet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3869696#Comment_3869696
prestiging a killer to get one perk shouldnt be the answer to a problem people face at all levels. Saying “just use lightborn” to someone who only has 1 or 2 prestige’s or someone who doesn’t play Billy isn’t fair. Perks should help but not be the only reliable counter.
The answer also should not be, as someone unfortunately decided to state here, "I disagree with you therefore you must be a bad Killer main who doesn't know how to play, and are deserving of everyone's scorn." But here we are. A state where people do not have any empathy for a) new players, b) players who have accessibility issues with blinds, c) players literally locked into a stun animation and thus unable to avoid a blind coming out of it.
There is never a tactical need to sit at a pallet after stunning the Killer, blind them after the stun animation, then blind them again while they go through the break animation when you can waste just as much if not more time and create a less frustrating game for someone by just doing one stun/blind and then continuing the chase to start with. The only people who try to chain stuns and blinds when a Killer literally can't avoid it are griefers who shouldn't even be up for debate as valid, because that's not playing DBD - that's just being a nuisance to annoy people. Nobody, not a soul, has given me a SINGLE good reason yet how this wastes more time than just looping the Killer does besides "You're just bad and don't know how to play the game" assumptions that are some of the most baseless takes alive on this forum and come a dime a dozen, should never be taken with any amount of seriousness, and makes anyone stating such look a right smug jackass.Why is it so hard for people to answer my question: WHY do we need to be able to stun any player multiple times in a row, and does it really save more time than just looping/hitting them does? WHEN does being able to stunlock someone and then stun them coming out of it really find any use besides trying to be a pseudo bully Squad or annoy a baby M1 Killer into a DC?
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@vol4r said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3869601#Comment_3869601
I love when bad killer mains talk xD It's so funny.
You can highlight things with map, that's enough.
If flashlights are problem for you, then use lightborn. You can't take surviviors last "fun" factor.
If surviviors don't get any entertainment you will only play against bot lobbys.
Oh dear, it seems as though you haven't actually read anything I actually wrote, didn't you? Because the post you responded to was not even directed at you, and it was a suggestion to buff flashlights by giving them another, better feature than the piddling weak option of a pathetic blind that we have now.
I also had a whole well thought out, well written post here explaining why you can't look away from a blind when you're stuck in certain animations, but then I remembered that the best way to deal with trolls is to simply ignore them or keep interactions with them as short as possible.
Shame on you, you are presumably a grown adult. You should know by now at your age that it looks childish to troll others online and criticize how "skilled" a person is while also being confidently incorrect about how animation locks work. Please stop. You are embarrassing yourself.