Little_Kitten
Little_Kitten
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By removing the Nurse's terror radius when she carries a survivor on her shoulders, she will no longer have any advantage in using Starstruck.
Problem solved.
And it's not really a problem that she doesn't have a terror radius when she's carrying a survivor, since she can't teleport at that time, and the other survivors know exactly where she is.
Or don't set its radius to 0, but reduce it to, say, 5 meters, if you really want it to continue being "visible".
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This is THE change I would vote for about ... 584 000 000%.
No kidding, except for those who use absolutely ALL the different items in the game, how many for example have their inventory cluttered with dozens of purple flashlights without having any use for them because they don't care to play with them?
Or even the offerings, for that matter.
BHVR, here are our wishes.
Give us Maurice back.
Introduce the ability to trade items/offerings between characters on the same account and between characters on different accounts.
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This dingy old horse... Maurice ?
In no way.
Maurice was the epitome of excellence, the faithful steed that never let himself be beaten.
Maurice was the first element of the game that startled me when I saw him for the first time (why is that horse moving? Why is he making noise?)
Maurice is there, somewhere ... waiting for his time, patiently.
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@Predated said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3237452#Comment_3237452
I mean, hitting an m1 with a Nurse without blinking would only have that much more effect. Making her Spasmodic Breath a lot more dangerous for example. Even now, the biggest reason why Unrelenting is so underwhelming, is because of Nurse.
Lets look at the perks that Nurse wont have access to normally if her blink is an m2:
Sloppy Butcher, a scourge hook can solve that issue
Franklins Demise, which honestly, she doesnt really need anyway
Jolt, a Nurse with Pain Res and/or Ruin doesnt really need that anyway
Knock-out, no one really uses this as Nurse anyway, comms either negate the effect, or she can slug faster against soloQ with other perks
Save The Best For Last, not the main choice of perk for Nurse in general as Unrelenting would have more value, altho, I would argue that this would make Spasmodic Breath Nurse all the more lethal. So actually a bonus?
Exposed perks, which again, Nurse doesnt really need anyway. Starstruck is extremely oppressive on such a mobile killer(and Starstruck Nurse is the reason why Awakened Awareness was nerfed, so that would be really nice to have buffed again. NOED on Nurse is overkill(and Terminus would basically have the same effect as it overrides Adrenaline). Make Your Choice, for the same reason as Starstruck, would help a lot. I'd say the only shameful perks that would be missed are Devour Hope and Haunted Grounds. But again, this would give room to make Spasmodic Breath Nurse extremely dangerous.
Yet what do we get in return? A lot of killers and/or perks being able to be buffed. Buffs that M2 Nurse could benefit from too. Like Jolt being applied on special attacks too. Or some exposed perks being turned into a perk that instead of doubling the damage of an m1 into a perk that doubles the damage on m2 too.
The idea of turning the nurse's basic move into a special move would indeed ensure that she no longer has access to certain perks.
I find that depriving a nurse of Strastruck would not be a problem, as this perk gives her much more power than another killer.
Franklin's Demise : personally, I wouldn't mind if a nurse didn't have access to this perk either (in fact, even if this perk disappeared completely, I wouldn't mind, kind of like NOED, in the end...)
Jolt: I don't think we should deprive the nurse of Jolt. It's a powerful perk, sure, but it's situational. It is enough that the survivor falls in a zone with only one or no generator, so that the effectiveness of this perk is not diminished.
Let's also not forget that Jolt can be extremely punishing, but if survivors get too greedy. I remember a game where my Jolt blew up 2 generators 3 times in a row in 30s because the survivors absolutely wanted to stay on these generators...
Sloppy Butcher / Knock Out : I don't see the problem with a nurse having these perks
However, there is a problem.
If the nurse's basic attack is changed to a special attack, and we want to make sure that she can use some perks and not others, it means that we have to change Sloppy Butcher, Knock Out and Jolt so that they can be activated by a normal attacks OR by a special attacks.
However, by doing this, it will mean that all other killers with special moves will be able to activate them as well.
What should be done is to create a third type of move, which would ONLY correspond to the nurse's teleported attack.
Thus, it would be enough to modify Sloppy Butcher, Knock Out and Jolt so that they activate via basic attack AND "nurse" attack.
Other skills like Franklin or Strastruck could be left as is.
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The face you will make when you realize that in reality, it is not a portal, but the eye of (your choice)
- Maurice
- Sauron
- a Gillian
😍
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Myers Tiers 1 / Amanda / Ghostface
in
Lery / Raccoon / The Game
And, in a way: trapper and hag on any map as long as her has a dark floor.
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You understood perfectly what I meant, no need to play on words.
But after all, you're right, I'm sure you'd love to have absolutely every killer in the game camp you out and tunnel you from the start of the game.
Don't hesitate to give us your in-game identity, so we can focus you absolutely if we come across you.
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People, don't try to defend the locker technique.
It's clearly something that needs to go. There's no arguing with that.
So, sorry, you're not going to be able to bully the bad killer anymore by choosing the most appropriate map, but maybe it will make you realize that it was no fun for the him.
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@TotemSeeker91 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3247250#Comment_3247250
Yes, we always use the Lord and Savior
The Lord and Savior ?
I didn't unserstand 😫
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@TotemSeeker91 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3246553#Comment_3246553
NEVER feel ashamed to equip the best perk in the game, people just don't understand, lol
Some players (some, not all), would simply like that from the moment they use a flashlight, the killer is blinded, burned to the third degree, handicapped to the point of being able to move only at 3.5m/s, and that on top of that, he can't use his power anymore 🤣
Lightborn 4ever 😍
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3247218#Comment_3247218
I mean, this has been in the game for quite some time.
It's not exactly a bug.
The locker saveflash is not a bug, but let's just say it's a mechanic that the killer can't avoid, unlike the classic saveflash which, depending on where the survivor falls, can be avoided 🤔
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Guys ... imagine that the next killer ...
Is actually Maurice who, perverted by the entity, comes back in a demonic form 😈🤩😱😵
I can't wait to say : "Oh no! Maurice took a mori!" 🤣
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@Predated said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3237452#Comment_3237452
I mean, hitting an m1 with a Nurse without blinking would only have that much more effect. Making her Spasmodic Breath a lot more dangerous for example. Even now, the biggest reason why Unrelenting is so underwhelming, is because of Nurse.
Lets look at the perks that Nurse wont have access to normally if her blink is an m2:
Sloppy Butcher, a scourge hook can solve that issue
Franklins Demise, which honestly, she doesnt really need anyway
Jolt, a Nurse with Pain Res and/or Ruin doesnt really need that anyway
Knock-out, no one really uses this as Nurse anyway, comms either negate the effect, or she can slug faster against soloQ with other perks
Save The Best For Last, not the main choice of perk for Nurse in general as Unrelenting would have more value, altho, I would argue that this would make Spasmodic Breath Nurse all the more lethal. So actually a bonus?
Exposed perks, which again, Nurse doesnt really need anyway. Starstruck is extremely oppressive on such a mobile killer(and Starstruck Nurse is the reason why Awakened Awareness was nerfed, so that would be really nice to have buffed again. NOED on Nurse is overkill(and Terminus would basically have the same effect as it overrides Adrenaline). Make Your Choice, for the same reason as Starstruck, would help a lot. I'd say the only shameful perks that would be missed are Devour Hope and Haunted Grounds. But again, this would give room to make Spasmodic Breath Nurse extremely dangerous.
Yet what do we get in return? A lot of killers and/or perks being able to be buffed. Buffs that M2 Nurse could benefit from too. Like Jolt being applied on special attacks too. Or some exposed perks being turned into a perk that instead of doubling the damage of an m1 into a perk that doubles the damage on m2 too.
Your post is very interesting, I want to answer it when I have time, and take the time to do it 🤗
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@kaneyboy said:
Fun is being sucked away from this game yet again, something that actually takes skill was very situational and only works in certain locations. Learning this was fun and something to strive to, flashlights run out and eventually you can’t do it? I don’t see the problem.
"Fun is being sucked away from this game yet again"
Fun for whom?
For both sides?
Or just for you?
This reminds me of an anecdote.
It was on the PTB.
Everybody was testing the new killer (I don't remember who it was) 😛
Personally, I was on my nurse because I knew that some fixes had been applied to it, and I wanted to test them 😂
I arrived in the lobby.
SWF team.
4 flashlights 🤔
I take lightborn.
Beginning of the game.
I chase a survivor, I hit him once, twice, I put him on the ground, I look around, nobody.
I pick it up.
And there, a Steeve literally falls from the sky (he was in fact hidden a bit high, in LVL 100 ninja mode) right in front of me and tries to blind me 😅
When he understands that I have lightborn, he DC.
Another DC.
Then the third, and the fourth.
End chat: I literally get set on fire as "playing lightborn on the PTB is shameful, you noob, go play Minecraft, etc."
So if I understand the idea correctly, survivors have the right to want to set up a bully squad of death with flashlights, but on the other hand, if I DARE to want to defend myself, I'm the worst kind of trash?
Seriously, guys ... at least make an effort in your arguments ... 🤣
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Why not look at things in an optimistic way ? 🤗
Perhaps this change could have been placed after other, more important ones, certainly ... but it remains true that it is more than welcome 🤗
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@Weasdat said:
Watch any video of tournament nurses. They still camp. It's the best strategy in the game. Tunnel and or camp someone out of the game then play the 3 gen 3v1.
"Good players don't camp" is the biggest scam you've been sold about this game.
Indeed, to say that "good killers don't camp" is to mix several things 😁
A player can be deadly efficient while playing in a dirty way, with a really abused build (hello, Supaalf); so, for the time being: efficient =/= cool.
A killer can totally camp / tunnel for a very good reason 😉
For example, if a survivor is way too greedy, being a smartass, taunting the killer ... he can only blame himself if the killer decides to teach him a lesson and he succeeds 😁
And of course, there are all the situations where the killer will have to put more pressure, in order to prevent the survivors from snowballing him 😙
I don't know if you can say that "good killers don't camp," but on the other hand, I would agree more with saying, "A killer who camps and tunnels in a hardway from the start is a ******"
PS : I don't take into account tournaments, where the only goal is to win, no matter what, I'm only talking about public games 😋
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@Rovend said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3246689#Comment_3246689
Fun to play against? No, truly no.
Maybe you are some extremely skilled survivor who can actually last more than 25-30 sec against her, but the average soloQ player gets destroyed by her and this difference grows more and more with the horrible MMR that can match you with people with 10x your hours.
She literally should wear a tag saying "Play against only if you are a strong swf"
(Not asking for her to be ruined though)
"but the average soloQ player gets destroyed by her and this difference grows more and more with the horrible MMR that can match you with people with 10x your hours"
The fact that a player decides to play alone, or that the MMR decides to go off the deep end and pit him against a killer who has 10 times as many hours of play as he does ... is not the killer's fault.
While I totally understand what you mean, and totally agree that as long as a team is not vocal, they can be heavily handicapped against a nurse, you can't blame it on the nurse herself.
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Being one of the people who proposed this, I can only agree; it seems to me completely normal that one can have an offering preventing to go on such or such map.
Because even if four survivors would use it, they could only avoid 4 maps, which would still leave a certain number, and therefore would keep the randomness of the game.
In the same way, being able to choose to go to a map at 100% (ok, 99,9999999%) should not exist anymore.
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@Seraphor said:
Extreme examples aren't a testament to overall game balance.
Otherwise look at the other end of the standard curve. Newbie survivor just got downed in 20 seconds by Trapper. Wow game is so killer sided.
Yesterday I saw a newbie get downed in 10s by a Trickster.
I think we need to nerf the Trickster 🤣
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@egg_ said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3243987#Comment_3243987
Cause it's a free win for anyone with opposable thumbs
🤣🤣🤣
It could have been even more devious with Darkness Revealed ... but somehow, would it have been really interesting? ...
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@Kosturko92 said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/B56BZCQYTI32/image.png
Not all survivors are salty against Nurse with this build, they tried and they had fun.
There is no need to give up 20 seconds into the game when you see Nurse with High School offering, or flame in chat after game.
I have a simple question, by curiosity : why did you choose this combo build / map ? Do you use it regularly ?
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@VikingDragonXii said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3242815#Comment_3242815
I was slugged the entire game and then camped just before bleed out.....but in the defense of the killer I did deserve it....I ran them through half the pallets on Midwich getting a stun each time and then a blind with a purple flashlight of blind death.....when I ran out I could see the gleem of death that sparkle when you know you f'ed up and are going to pay dearly for.....yup I deserved what I got and we both had a good laugh at end game chat...
It's so cool that you laughed about it at the end 🤗
But on the other hand, I wouldn't go so far as to say you deserved it; at a pinch, if you had tbagged after each palette, and been super toxic with click-clicks, yes, but from what you say, all you did was defend yourself 🤔
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@GoshJosh said:
Weird, I usually have no problem doing gens, taking chase from her, or hiding (if the situation calls for it). Try more than hiding if you ever want more than one escape against her (which, apparently, survivors still escape the most against Nurse in regular matches - according to the latest official stats).
I remember a game I played as a nurse a while back on BackWater.
They were hiding so well in the map that I thought at one point they were all using a wallhack to follow me around and anticipate my moves 🤣
But in a way, they were the most realistic survivors I've ever met because IRL, I doubt that someone chased by a psychopath would have fun crouching down and getting up several times in a row behind an obstacle 🤣
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@Sava18 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3243622#Comment_3243622
I really don't know how to explain this well, but your thinking is backwards. If a character's power is so game breaking every perk that is created needs to have her in mind that is an issue. Look at blight, he does not make any perk more disgusting than it is supposed to be but he is nearly as strong as nurse. Survivor's are different they are all the same and the perks they get can be balanced accordingly. On killer you have to think about each killer when making a perk. There is no reason that one killer should limit the potential of all perks in the game for the other what 27 killers. In league no one think's that if one character makes an item broken when it's weak to nerf that item, there is not a single online game I can think of that aligns with your mindset on this matter.
If I understand correctly, the day they create a killer whose one of the skills would give the nurse too much of an advantage ... it will nerf the nurse?
At this rate, in 10 years, we'll only have M1 killers moving at 4.4m/s that can be looped for 10 minutes in a LT.
Starstruck was created without taking into account the impact it could have on the nurse, especially since Agitation already existed at that time.
Concerning Darkness Revealed for example, it is different because the nurse has value with only Midwich, and eventually Raccoon and Lery. On the other maps, it's very situational, so it's often a shot in the dark.
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@Sava18 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3242776#Comment_3242776
In regards to the idea of reworking perks for nurse that is bad. You do not change something that is probably mediocre at best for every other killer just because one character make's it so absurd. Here's an idea, make her blinks a basic attack. I personally think she should be reworked because her design is not great. I do like the idea of different counter play and gameplay loop compared to other killers, but having someone ignore literally all the mechanics in the game is not great. Blight for example, you do have to play against him differently than every other character in the game. Most loops need to be played differently and you can pre throw every pallet just like with any killer except nurse, but he is just going to chew through them and catch up to you for another one. Blight is the most interactive you could ever make any killer and especially top tier killer. There is no holding W, play the tile and outplay blight or die. Obviously his most busted add-ons mitigate some of that skill expression on the survivor side, but those are the exception to the most well designed killer they will ever create. Nurse is a relic from a time when survivor's were extremely busted and the balance of the game was not taken seriously.
This thinking is a bit ambiguous.
Indeed, it presupposes that every time developers create powerful perks, they must nerf the nurse.
It doesn't make sense.
You can't nerf a character based on the most powerful build it can equip; you have to nerf the perks that make up that build, and think about what synergy this perk can achieve with the most powerful characters in the game.
It's as if, for example, the developers created extremely powerful skills and/or items for the survivors, but in return, they reduced their running speed, etc., that kind of thing.
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@TotemSeeker91 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3242815#Comment_3242815
Really? Huh, I guess I can't say too much because the amount of times I've seen them in like 2-3 years, is enough to count on only one hand, lol
I must admit that I very rarely come across them too... maybe my MMR is not high enough, or they are at another MMR, I don't know ... 😁
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@Marc_go_solo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3242701#Comment_3242701
As sorry, maybe I didn't make myself clear: I don't mean extra BP for playing a powerful killer, I meant for people who make it into the top 5% mmr out of all killers or survivors. It gives an acknowledgement of making it to a certain level of dedication to the game. I'll never reach that, but those who do play really well could see it as a nice acknowledgement. Or maybe just the top 1%?
Not saying they have to, and your idea is definitely a decent one. Mine is jist a throw on from that. Admittedly, mine isn't as well thought out - more a reactive thought in addition to yours. :)
My bad, I didn't understand!
I never thought of a reward for this kind of thing, I just thought of rewarding those who face the most powerful killers 😋
But it's sure that there would be a lot of ideas to develop on potential BP gains ... although I'm afraid that it could provoke, by competitive spirit, even more dirty gameplay, precisely where public games are by definition made to have fun 😥
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@FlameLickVA said:
Just plain and simple, I don't want to keep seeing a map offering just because someone else (even on my team), wants to be extremly competitive (bleh) in a casual party game, it kills the vibe and makes the match INSANELY boring and one sided.
Map offerings should be removed, with a full BP refund for each one in your inventory that also goes over the cap.
Then, focus could be put on balancing the maps. Midwich and Eyrie are the most one sided maps in the entire game on each side.
And at the same time, why not set up a reverse offering?
For exemple :
Electrical power surge.
Decreases the Odds of being sent to the Ler’s Memorial Institute Realm by 9.999%
"There are things more dangerous than death at the Institute ... better not go back!"
We are not going to lie to each other, sometimes we would just like to avoid this or that map 🤗
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@TotemSeeker91 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3242713#Comment_3242713
Idk, I think the major thing with them is slugging, and with the basekit UB coming, whether they were good or not, they will be garbage, lol
At the same time, who wants to get slugged the whole game? 😥
I've met twins who played very well, without having to force the slug. Of course, sometimes, they put a little pressure if needed, with Victor, but nothing too serious 🤗
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@TheSubstitute said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3242750#Comment_3242750
The devs aren't doing anything about Nurse because there is either no reason to or any issues with her are minor enough that there are more pressing priorities.
BHVR has access to a lot of data. Pre 6.1 DH was nerfed was mentioned because after hit validation it gave a disproportionately large advantage to the survivor and was unbalancing. Old Ruin from way back was nerfed as it gave a disproportionately large advantage to the Killer and was unbalancing.
Nurse isn't being touched currently because playing Nurse either doesn't give a disproportionate advantage, the advantages are so small that there is no reason for them to take precedence over more important issues, or any disproportionate advantage hasn't been seen yet.
When you examine the Nerf Nurse! threads you see a lot of let's balance Nurse on SupaAlf and no let's balance survivors around Hens or the hardcore survivor teams. That's self-serving. If it's okay to balance Nurse around SupaAlf it's also okay to balance survivors around Hens and his SWF death squad.
BHVR doesn't do that because it would be unfair to their players and they're cognizant of that. BHVR does take a lot of flak but quite a bit of it is unjustified in my opinion as they've shown they consider the fun of all players and consider multiple factors in their decisions.
What would giving a verbal statement do though? The people who obsessively hate Nurse would still complain and BHVR already showed with their Kill Rates there's a lot more nuanced take to things than the forums take into account. So, they kind of did give a statement but not directly. If Nurse doesn't have a disproportionate success rate for at least over 95% of MMR ranges where exactly is the problem?
As far as I am concerned, I find that Supaalf is not a nurse that can be taken as an example, well, at least for "fairplay".
I don't know how he played with the nurse before he started his winning streak, but just to see how during his "marathon", he doesn't hesitate to camp / tunnel or slug even when it is frankly not necessary and that the survivors don't put any pressure on him 🤔
I know, he does it to win (otherwise he wouldn't have chosen THIS build for his marathon) ... but still, tryhard with THIS build is exactly what I call something absolutely unfun, with the nurse 😑 which is why I wouldn't mind a remake of Starstruck at all.
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@JFF said:
I still don't understand why devs haven't made an official statement regarding Nurse, are they happy with her current state? Are they going to rework her or adjust the addons? Instead we have here a never ending battle between people, who religiously play and defend her on every single topic with a word nurse in it. And then we have people, who believe she's just not healthy for the game.
IMO Nurse is a balancing hell in general. Each new map they create, must be adjusted just for nurse, so she's able to blink without glitching. Every new decent perk makes her even more unpleasant to go against. She basically creates a lose-lose scenario. Majority of survivors dislike going against her, because she ignores every core defense mechanic (Pallets and windows) that is given to survivor. Daily arguments about her balance state are just tiring.
You assume certain things that are not true, and make generalizations about them.
For example, the "defenders" of the nurse are tired of the fact that every time a player encounters a difficulty, the only reaction he or she will have is to complain (but on the other hand, these players are afraid to show us any video of them playing against the nurse; this proof of bad faith alone is most irritating).
It's also annoying that instead of discussing solutions that could be completely agreed upon, such as reworking certain perks so that they don't make the nurse as powerful as she is now when she uses them, what you hear in just about every speech is: "Delete the nurse, delete her blink, turn her into a Spirit-like in 4.4 with a tp available every 7500 years, prevent her from blinking through palettes, prevent her from moving from one floor to another, delete her second blink, etc. "
This speech is clearly geared towards simply wanting to make a killer that they have a problem with on a daily basis (a daily basis that they have never shown us yet, by the way...) look ridiculous.
Not healthy for the game? I would say not healthy for THEIR game.
"Majority of survivors dislike going against her, because she ignores every core defense mechanic (Pallets and windows) that is given to survivor."
I would rather say: because they don't want to rack their brains and get out of their classic loop method that works on the other 28 killers.
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@MaTtRoSiTy said:
I run a build that will screw up all but the best Nurses if you can lose LOS for a second or two - Iron Will, Dance With Me, Lucky Break and Off the Record or I get rid of Dance with Me for Lightweight at times.
Once Nurse fatigues after landing a hit, I use that speed boost to quickly take a weird path and will even go behind them then crouch behind something. Nobody expects Iron Will any more and it works surprisingly often.
Always remember to shake up what you are doing, don't just double back or camp corners every time. Run wide of loops rather than run tight to the pallet/window as you would other killers as Nurses will often try to predict that.
If you get caught in the open, fake a double back (but your timing will need to be good) but generally being out in the open is a RIP like it is with many killers.
There are also a lot of players who don't do this; I don't understand why.
They don't shave the walls. It is a simple mathematical principle.
When you take a turn, the tighter you take it, the shorter the time you take; the more time you save.
In a chase with a nurse, by skimming the walls, you get to the edges of the structure with a few tenths of a second advantage, which can sometimes make all the difference.
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@Omans said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3242576#Comment_3242576
How can someone who has had a post deleted from this very thread by the mods suggest that another poster is polluting topics? Seems a bit backwards to me.
The only perk that is an issue for every killer is Eruption. There are numerous perks that are an issue solely on Nurse. The issue is not the perks, it is Nurse herself. Claiming the issue is some perks rather than Nurse is really strange.
You completely misunderstand me. The most constructive way to have a conversation regarding nurse is to continue voicing displeasure about how such an imbalanced character has been allowed to stay that way for as long as she has. Then, hope the devs finally respond to one of these threads.
What else is there? All the information on how to 'counter' nurse is already out there. When people ask how to counter her they are asking rhetorically.
In my opinion my posts are much more constructive than your posts, as my posts actually live in reality. Please be careful with your next post. Wouldn't want the thread to be deleted...
I do have one question, though: what platform do you play on? If you play on console it would perfectly explain why you have the opinion you do on Nurse.
"Claiming the issue is some perks rather than Nurse is really strange."
Between a nurse who uses Starstruck and one who does not, there is a huge difference.
Personally, I don't use this skill on my nurse, I know very well that with it, she could be even more dangerous, but somewhere, I tell myself that there are many other skills to use, which are not abused like Starstruck either.
"The most constructive way to have a conversation regarding nurse is to continue voicing displeasure about how such an imbalanced character has been allowed to stay that way for as long as she has."
On the contrary, I think it's completely counterproductive to do that.
Basically, what you're advising is to complain, again and again... complaining has never been constructive.
I'm sure that already, if you take away the possibility to use Starstruck from the nurses, a lot of players would be very happy with it, for example (redesigning the perk, or whatever, it doesn't matter, I was talking about the simple result, of course).
"When people ask how to counter her they are asking rhetorically."
Some, perhaps. But not all, of course.
There are players who will have run into a nurse who is more skilled than they are, and will have decided that the outcome of the game will have been that "The nurse is too strong, I can't do anything."
That's why I often ask people who come and complain in a very childish way to show their gameplay ... because I think there are probably things they could improve, and things they just don't think about ... I tease them, but I'll be the first one to advise them quietly if they agree to show anything ...
But then again, I don't have too many illusions ... so if they prefer to complain without questioning themselves ...
I'm not saying the nurse isn't strong.
I'm also not saying that these players who come crying will be able to pulverize the nurse afterwards if they are a little less self-absorbed.
I just ask them a simple question, see their gameplay, even in anonymous mode, I don't care who they are.
"I do have one question, though: what platform do you play on? If you play on console it would perfectly explain why you have the opinion you do on Nurse."
What is the difference between nurse on console and nurse on PC ? I play DbD on PC.
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@TotemSeeker91 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3242579#Comment_3242579
I'm sorry...why are Twins top tier exactly?
I had understood that at very high rank, they could be very dangerous 🤔
I leave it to those who play in tournament conditions or at very high MMR to clarify whether this is the case or not 🤗
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@Marc_go_solo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3242579#Comment_3242579
I like thay suggestion! Motivation is better than punishing, and maybe if someone climbs into, say, the top 5 mmr then they should be granted a buff to the BP they acrue every trial fpr as long as they remain there, and also makes a mark that, as you say, anyone who faces them also gains some extra BP.
That may not only make people feel better about a match if they get absolutely squashed, and also rewards the highest players for achieving thay status. Happy days all around!
I don't think we should reward those who play Nurse, Blight, Twins and Spirit, but only the survivors who play them 😋
Indeed, as a survivor, you can't choose which killer you face, so the BP bonus would be due to chance only ☺️
Whereas someone who is a hand nurse would be continuously given a bonus while those who don't use it would get nothing 🤔
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@Marc_go_solo said:
Nurse is regarded as S-Tier for a reason. She's the killer equivalent of a final boss, and by final boss I mean Sephiroth or Dragonforce Guitar Hero of a final boss.
She has counterplay, but the higher the level of skill the player has of her, the much less of a chance you'll actually have against her, unless you yourself have an equally high level of skill.
The MMR is a big factor in this, and it's a lot to do with mis-matching at times. Nurse has also had some nerfs during her time, but it's hard to find how she can be nerfed fairly, without making her useless. It'll be interesting to see how this may be approached should it do.
Since everyone can agree on the composition of the Tier-List of DbD killers, at least the fact that the strongest killers are Nurse, Blight, Twins, Spirit ...
Why not a bonus of BP that the survivors who would face these "top-tiers" killers would receive? 🤗
It wouldn't change the balance of the parties involved, but it might motivate the survivors who don't like these very powerful killers.
(yes, I know, some might say that it's a shame to have to motivate a player to ... play a game but somehow ... it wouldn't hurt anyone 😁)
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@Omans said:
Nurse is a perfectly made character for players who want to be given an extreme advantage against their opponents in the vast, vast majority of their games.
For people who want a balanced game (or something nearing balance), Nurse is an outdated, obnoxious character used by people who think it is their skill alone, and not her busted mechanics giving them wins over equally skilled opponents.
Everyone understands that you don't like the nurse, Omans, it's getting ridiculous to pollute every topic with your sweeping judgments.
Instead, use your knowledge and experience to participate in the discussions in a constructive way, especially on the most dangerous perks that the nurse can use.
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No.
You're wrong.
There are much faster killers.
Examples:
- a Bubba who sees that a survivor is coming to pick up another one
- a nurse when she chases a survivor and he makes the mistake of fast vaulting a window
- Victor when he sees a survivor wanting to play soccer with him
- the trapper when he sees a smart guy following him and disarming all the traps he sets
- Claudette P3 when she realizes that the killer has seen her, while she was hiding in a bush on BackWater
Oh, I forgot: any killer, when he sees Jeryl walking slowly in his direction.
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@Aceislife said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3242502#Comment_3242502
Because when you 1v1 of the nurse, both of them just need to guess and hope they guess right. She does not need a nerf. Certain perks, or perk combos could use a nerf.
I agree that there is nothing more boring than a nurse having fun with Agitation, Starstruck and Flood of Rage to slug in onse-shot survivors 😑
Starstruck could, for example, affect only one survivor, chosen randomly by the game, out of all the survivors who should have been exposed.
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100% Legion.
I find the constant stitching and/or healing (depending on the situation) completely mind-numbing.
I once met a Legion who would intentionally only use his frenzy to catch us or patrol quickly, but would not hit us with it.
It was a really nice game.
The trapper and hag also tend to annoy me, because according to the map, you have to look between each blade of grass all the time.
Well, ok, maybe I don't like jumpscares; in retrospect, I think that somewhere along the line they are among the only killers that can really cause small moments of tension.
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@zarr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3240329#Comment_3240329
I know you are joking, but you actually have a point. Nurse is the most egregious offender in terms of this skill range disparity, where newer and intermediate players regularly perform worse than with any other character, average players still perform averagely at best, yet advanced and top players overperform massively. An attempt to balance Nurse could definitely see her be made much more accessible for newer and average players, yet cap her top potential. And I think that's precisely what BHVR was thinking with some of her add-ons that modify her base movement speed. Making her 4.4m/s and putting her blinks on a considerable cooldown similar to Spirit would be an obvious example of such a rework.
That said, I wouldn't like them watering down Nurse. My suggestion for balancing her (reducing post-blink lunge range by some %; https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3153211/#Comment_3153211) in fact makes her harder to play. I want her to remain a very unique and skill-rewarding character, and with that change she would require more precision because she doesn't have as long a lunge anymore that basically constitutes a "third blink" and makes up for inaccuracies in the blink mechanics and predictions, as well as nullify most survivor dodge/juke/fake attempts.
I was serious, though.
The problem with Starstruck is that used on a trashy killer, it will give him an advantage; used by a competent nurse, it will give him an advantage may tend to be excessive.
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@BlueRose said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3239087#Comment_3239087
The reason you don't see more instances of that reflection is that Agitation and Starstruck are not super op on the other killers. They are only super strong on Nurses and that is it. For example, I use Agitation and Starstruck on deathslinger and by far it is not op on him because I still need to shoot the survivors meaning I need good aim and a clear shot. Survivors have a lot of counterplay against a deathslinger since his harpoon can't go through walls and if I hit them at a pallet that was dropped all they have to do is break my chain. For nurses, they just have to blink and BAM they go down easy.
Also, most people like myself don't like perks being nerfed just because they are overall strong on one killer. The most recent example of this happening was Awakened Awareness. In the PTB AA was a fine decent perk since it kinda acted like a close-range bbq but in the live release, BHVR came out and said they had to nerf it because it was too strong on "certain killers" (aka nurse). Now the perk isn't even worth running on a lot of killers. Killing a perk potential just because it op on one killer isn't good game balancing. If its only op on one killer then maybe just maybe it's the killer that's the problem, not the perk.
In this case, we might as well code the skill in question to be less effective on the strongest killers; this would prevent nurses from using it to play very dirty, while allowing much weaker killers to take advantage of it anyway ☺️
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@Omans said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3239607#Comment_3239607
I wonder if this post will just be ignored. I have a feeling the people defending nurse in her current state will just pretend they didn't see this comment. Better than accepting the truth, I guess.
You should consult, it's getting serious to be so full of hatred towards a game character at this point, you know 😁
I'll leave you to get excited on your own, Omans, because in case you haven't noticed, zarr has provided a lot of video content, and I'm going to enjoy watching it, so it's going to take a little while (because I originally asked for it because I was curious to see how a tournament went) 😄
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/351757/nurse-has-counterplay-learn-it
You're not wrong and there are tons of videos that prove it. However : Nurse and Blight are on a completely different level from every other killer and that's not fair to all the other killers.
As an example : generally speaking 99% of pallets are ineffective against a nurse.
Relatively speaking Nurse and blight need to move down in effectiveness (and SWF too) so that all the other killers get better.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3238282#Comment_3238282
Being that mad about nurse tells me you can't run her very well and you probably know those tips but not how to use them. Nurse was actually 100% hard countered by Spine Chill before they nerfed it (spirit too). You could see mid blink if she had the correct blink angle and could react before she blinked.
"Nurse (...) need to move down in effectiveness (...) so that all the other killers get better."
Why not instead look at the weaker killers, by giving them a helping hand, for example? 🙂
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@zarr said:
Top Nurses 4k in tournaments all the time. Even players with thousands of hours of experience of playing as and against Nurse in highly competitive contexts and in coordinated, practiced teams with voice comms do not manage to counter-play her well enough to regularly get even 1 survivor out. Now imagine Nurse in the actual base balance scenario that is also infinitely more common in pubs, which is a non-4-SWF group, without any coordination or communication. They get demolished 99.99% of the time. There are multiple Nurse 4k streaks spanning 300+ matches. Not even the most armed-to-the-teeth god SWF can get even 100 4-escapes in a row, they need to settle for 3-escapes at best, and even then they don't get as high streaks as Nurse.
If you were to let perfect AIs play against each other, Nurse would basically always win, her potential simply is that she can land every single (well, or every second) blink no matter what.
I guarantee BHVR knows this very well, it is completely blatant for them to see if they just look at the kill rates of the top % of Nurses. The higher you go, the more closely those kill rates will near 100%, and there's likely thousands of players with 80+% kill rates on Nurse. And most likely no other killer with as many players in that range.
It's been painfully obvious for years that Nurse needs nerfs. Same for 4-SWF. For Nurse, one major adjustment for the better would be reducing her post-blink lunge range somewhat, that would actually make counterplay more consistent against her since then she cannot easily adjust anymore for inaccuracies in the blink, which can occur both due to bad play on the killer side and/or good play on the survivor side. For SWF, loadout restrictions are the major adjustment I would want to see, not least because tournaments also go to show that a whole range of killers can compete perfectly well even against the best and most coordinated of SWF teams with loadout restrictions in place. But a bunch of killers still should still get some buffs of course.
Don't get me wrong, while super good Nurse players are something you will meet much, much more often than super good 4-SWFs on voice comms, they are still fairly rare. I don't think the existence of Nurse as she is ruins DbD, not even in the high MMR realm (although that's mostly because the "high MMR" realm is capped), but she is easily enough of a problem to warrant addressing, always has been. 90+% win rates and win streaks spanning hundreds of matches should never be able to exist, on either side, that's essentially impossible in any reasonably competitively balanced game yet in DbD it's fairly common for good players, and they should work on everything to remedy BS like that. Matchmaking is of course a major culprit behind this, but not the only one.
You say that the best nurses do 4K all the time in tournaments, at a very high level.
I would like the name of those tournaments, so I can go watch their replay.
And I'm talking seriously here, because I'd be interested to see what it looks like in tournaments (whether it's on the survivor side, or the killer side, for that matter).
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@Omans said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3238879#Comment_3238879
Your messages are so weird. Can you please stop responding to me? You misinterpret what I say, and try to argue with things I haven't even said.
You won't convince me that nurse isn't busted, so please don’t send another of your poem-responses.
I mixed up the messages of two people: you and another one, my bad.
I remember you saying you knew exactly what to do when you faced the nurse, and that you were playing on servers with few people, and finally that you fell into being in a team with survivors who also knew how to face the nurse against a nurse who won the game.
However, the fact that the nurse won that game against you is not an argument for the nurse's alleged "OP" nature.
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Well, back to a more serious discussion !
I have read quite a few topics on this forum about the nurse.
I have read carefully every intervention, whether it comes from pro-nurse or anti-nurse.
I am a main nurse, but contrary to what some would have you believe, I don't try to defend the nurse in any way, just by being logical.
That's why I'm going to bring up something that surprised me, in the criticisms that players make of the nurse.
I'm not going to focus on the empty "She's too strong" criticisms, which contain no argument, and are not followed by any evidence/videos/whatever.
On the other hand, I would like to address the following argument: "Her basic attack should be turned into a special attack."
If you analyze the discussions a bit, you realize that at the base of this suggestion is :
"Nurse should be nerfed because nurses who use Agitation and Starstruck are too strong."
And that's where the whole problem comes in.
The suggestion is stated incorrectly.
Here's a way to phrase it that I think is correct:
"Agitation and Starstruck are problematic because they make the nurse too strong."
The problem is not with the nurse.
The problem is with these perks.
(I should clarify that I'm not saying I agree or disagree with this, I'm staying neutral, and expressing myself for the sole purpose of semantic analysis)
Why is saying that the problem comes from these 2 skills important?
First of all, it is totally illusory to think about transforming the basic attack of the nurse into a special attack.
Indeed, this would deprive her of the use of all skills based on hitting survivors.
Second point (and not the least): the power of the nurse is biased by the build she uses.
We can reasonably see that we can have builds :
- S-type: Agitation, Starstruck, Flood of Rage and Pain Raisonance
- A-type: example: Pain Raisonance / Dead Man / Chili / Jolt, etc.
- B-type : in fact all builds that mix several types of perks, and that are not monstrosities, while remaining rather effective
- C-type: the rest, the fun builds (walking nurse), and those that use rather weak perks (Deerstalker, Shattered Hope, Spies from the Shadows, etc.)
Why talk about this?
Because it speaks directly to the fact that nerfing the nurse based on the most powerful build she can use (the S(upaalf) type) would be a terrible mistake.
Because by doing this, the S-build would be only moderately dangerous, but all the other builds, less powerful, would be unplayable.
If the problem is the S-build, it is not the nurse itself that needs to be reworked, but the skills that make up this S-build, namely Agitation but especially Starstruck.
This would allow both the S-build to be less powerful, while leaving in their place the nurses who use less powerful builds.
Again, I am surprised that I have not seen more instances of this reflection, which seems to me to be the closest to the real concern that this would raise.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3238392#Comment_3238392
And why do you think I agree with asking for evidence to act as solid proof to a claim thaf someone makes.
This isn't the gotcha moment you think it is when I really don't care about this argument either way.
I was just teasing, It is precisely because I think that a proof can be very important that I ask for it 😊
@Grandpa_Crack_Pipe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3238879#Comment_3238879
I can physically hear the standing ovation in your head.
? 😮
@Laurie268 said:
She’s the only killer that ignores all game mechanics and can noclip through walls, how long will it take BHVR to realize no one wants to play against that?
We’re in 2022 now and a lot of busted things like old DH, old hatch and instaheals are removed because they don’t belong in the game anymore. It’s time to do the same with nurse as she is a relic of the past where broken infinites were normal.
Irrelevant generalization, inappropriate associations and sophism.
You can do better! 😫
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What's sad, Omans, is that if we look in detail at the posts on which players come to complain about the nurse, we can see that you are among the players whose interventions are the most empty.
On each topic of this kind, we find players who
- give tips on how to loop a nurse depending on the situation
- explain what can be dangerous or annoying for a nurse, depending on the map, the building, the RNG, etc.
- explain how range addons are not insane addons
- give tips on how to extend the duration of the hunt (of course, these are not Deus Ex Machina, but added together, they help)
And I'm sure some nurses (including me) would be more than willing to have a quiet chat with any survivor who would like to show how they play against the nurse.
Even anonymously, we don't care; because contrary to what you seem to want to impose as an idea, Omans, we don't care if some survivors are stronger or weaker than the nurse, and our goal is not to say, "Look, you can't do anything against her, you're too lame!"
Are you going to tell me that I'm just waiting for that, and that's why I always ask those who complain to show videos of them confronting the nurse?
It's just the opposite.
On the one hand, it's to make it clear that saying something is fine, but if the person doesn't have any evidence to back up what they're saying, it's a bit meaningless.
And on the other hand, who better than a nurse to explain the mistake that such and such a survivor made at such and such a time, in front of a nurse?
As for you, Omans, you indicated some time ago that if the nurse was getting you so drunk, it was because ... you were dealing with too much. It wasn't even a question of power, because you yourself said you had no trouble playing against them.
Instead of having a hate speech that tries in every way to put down players who take the time to explain to others, calmly, what the nurse is really about, you too should move into a helping and supporting register.
If what you say is true, and you are indeed an experienced survivor who knows how to deal effectively with a nurse, this forum needs your experience more than your bile.
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@Omans said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3238672#Comment_3238672
If this was the first time someone asked, I would have gladly posted my gameplay, which I did.
I have no desire to post it again, and be ridiculed and lied to like before.
There are plenty of videos out there showcasing how strong she is. Watch those.
"There are plenty of videos out there showcasing how strong she is. Watch those."
You're getting confused, Omans.
No one ever contradicted the fact that she was strong.
We're just talking about the statements of those who say, "The naughty nurse is too strong, there's nothing we can do about it."
And we're still waiting for videos of all the players who come to this forum and say that.
Gentlemen ... it's not complicated though to run a little recording software at the beginning of the game, and if it's the nurse in front, post the game on YT and show it to us here .... right? 😁