Little_Kitten
Little_Kitten
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3267476#Comment_3267476
The ideas I put up are not suppose to all be done at once. These are just ideas from the community that I liked and highlight as talking points for the community.
But with DBD still having more content ahead of itself, making Nurse's attack a Special Attack is the safest option, since there can be further perks that are released that prove to be problematic on Nurse.
I know what you mean; but on the one hand, as I explained, there is no reason to deprive the nurse of the above-mentioned perks, and on the other hand, it is not the nurse who has to suffer from a future perk, even if it is still invented, which could possibly be too strong. It is up to the developers to create a perk taking into account all aspects of the game present at the time of its creation.
On the other hand, what the developers could do to increase the power of the killers WITHOUT affecting the nurse's power, would be to transform the nurse's M1 into an M3, a new type of attack that would be unique to her, so that she could modulate certain attacks only on the other killers.
Example I had given before:
Jolt triggered by an M1: 40m radius
Jolt triggered by an M3 : 32m radius
K.O. triggered by an M1: current malus + new malus reinforcing the perk
K.O. triggered by an M3 : current malus only
Sloppy Butcher triggered by an M1 : current malus + intermittent screams of wounded survivors
Sloppy Butcher triggered by an M3 : current malus only
Etc.
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@Gandor said:
No. Nurse is problem everywhere but lery's. But lery's is problem on it's own
Oh, no! You can't say that nursing is a problem everywhere! Don't become like all those people whose only arguments are to make overgeneralizations in order to appear convincing! 😣
However, the issue of LOS RNG is super complex.
I had pointed this out elsewhere, but so much Lery, for a nurse is .... too much. Just too much. Too many walls, too many angles, too big a map, help, help.
On other maps, it seems infinitely complicated to calculate their "efficiency" in terms of LOS : it depends on so many parameters : how does the nurse play ? How do the survivors play ? Do they know how to play a nurse ? Can they play with bluffing? The double bluff? The triple bluff? Etc.
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@Flopiyutiop said:
It's the lack of proper structure to run her on most maps.
The best places to have a chance against Nurse are dense HIGH LOS blockers (trees, walls etc.) with just enough length that a lunge can't reach around but you, as a survivor, can juke around it and gain distance.
BUT, the newer maps are more or less wide fields in the middle, where you can only hide by crouching or standing still as a survivor. It allows for a better chance for the Killer to find survivors as he navigates the map. Even if the phenomenon is enhanced nowadays, DbD has always features pallet heavy but easier to patrol middle. It's easier to find survivors, but there is more protection to use : risk & reward
IN EXCHANGE, the border of the map was less pallet dense and there were many rocks, trees and wood structures. If the Killer found you there, you were in trouble, but you had plenty of hiding spots to discourage a meticulous search : risk & reward.
NOWADAYS, devs have rendered the map boarders mainly useless. There are still some hiding places that kinda works to discourage a chase (because who spend 30 seconds to check behind 5 rocks when one can go back to the middle gens where most of the team will be), but not enough to juke projectiles or blinks.
SO, by keeping a low number of hiding spot at those places, you prevent interesting stealth gameplay - just wait behind that one rock at the edge of the map where the Killer will never check - and counterplay to chase powers - just run and hold W anytime you can. No interesting play by sneaking behind the killer while he looks around the gen, no zigzag across a Z wall, a tree and a rock to get a +1 wood from the Nurse, just RUN the hell out there kid because you're 6 seconds away to say : Hello Mr Floor.
ANYTIME, I get that one lucky draw where you have the good trees to dodge those perfect hatchet throws, those small rocks and huge trees to make that Nurse guess, for once. It just makes so much difference in terms of gameplay. No more "just run back and forth and pray he's feeling impatient". It's even worse when you have add-ons that allow for quick recover of chase powers, where you end up to juke the power 2-3 time before the first stack of usable obstacles.
TLDR : GIVE US SOME TREES, GUYS, HUMANITY NEEDS TO BREATHE.
You : "HUMANITY NEEDS TO BREATHE"
The Nurses : "Breathe ? Hold my beer." 🤣
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3267312#Comment_3267312
By changing her Basic Attack to a Special Attack, the only things that change is that Nurse does not have access to Exposed perks and they cant use perks that activate on Basic Attacks (Sloppy Butcher), the fundamental function of hitting survivors does not change at all, just more hits are required to down a survivor.
Changing his M1 to M2 would prevent him from using NOED, Franklin, Jolt, Sloppy Butcher and K.O.
Except for NOED which I totally agree with, I see no reason why the nurse cannot use the other perks mentioned above.
Regarding Starstruck, a deletion of her TR when she carries a survivor is enough.
Concerning the other remaining "Exposed" perks, we have Dragon's Grip (that can easily be let out ), Make your choice (that can easily be let out if not coupled with Floods of rage), Haunted Ground (that can easily be let out , except for the survivor who might be chased bye the nurse), Hubris (will never be used against the nurse, unless you Head On or manage to knock her out with a pallet), Iron Maiden (that can easily be let out ) and Rancor (that can easily be let out unless survivors are already dead and/or the nurse couples this perk with others allowing to change the survivor obsession).
Apart from NOED and Starstruck which I agree are too strong on the nurse, only Devour Hope and possibly Make your Choice are really dangerous when used by the nurse. The others remain very situational, and if the survivors stay hidden during the duration of the malus, it will not generate any value.
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First of all, the mere fact that there is a 4% probability of getting off a hook alone with an attempt renders null and void any complaint about "suicide on the hook".
It is impossible:
- that on the one hand, the players can try 3 times to free themselves, with a final mathematical expectation of 12%
- and that on the other hand, the fact of trying to free oneself is punishable
As for the fact of voluntarily missing his QTE during phase 2: how could you prove that it was something voluntary?
Unless you are in the same room as the player, and watching him to see what is really going on, IRL, you have no proof.
Obviously, someone might say to me, "Yeah, but when a killer commits suicide, but is released while in phase 2, it's easy to tell if he really wants to kill himself, he's running on the killer."
Yeah, unless he's smart. The smartest players will know how to give the impression of playing "normally", when in fact they will just try to discreetly get close to the killer, to feign normal behavior, while making it not too difficult for the killer to catch up with them.
And they do this for two reasons: first, so that the other survivors don't report them for anti-gaming, but also, so that the killer doesn't notice their ploy.
For some killers sometimes tend to punish themselves the survivors who "give themselves away". I know because I've done it; one day, after I chased a Feng Min and hooked her, and while I wasn't really putting any pressure on the game, I saw on my screen, at her icon, that she was making a lot of attempts, and that she was voluntarily omitting to do her QTEs; she was saved in extremis, but came back to me; I put her back on the ground, but then left her on the ground, to go and take care of her mates.
The funniest part of the story is that in the end, the others were not at all teamed up with her, and didn't want to be involved; in the end, I picked her up just as she was about to die of exhaustion, and hung her up. I then farmed with the other 3 survivors, who were very happy that all 4 of us had made points.
The worst part is that even though she clearly wanted to kill herself from the start, she stayed in the lobby until the end, so she could insult me profusely.
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@Archael said:
Nurse is killer hard to learn, and making her a casual killer, would be a slap on a face for everyone who decided to learn to play her.
I know that some people used to her cery quickly, but my time od learning her was a nighmare (literally), and if she will become casual killer i will be totally pissed, and in rage, because this would means that all my effort, dedication, frustration, broken morale and lost confidence because of not being able to get a single hit for entire trial would be just waste.
So no. I will never accept Nurse being regular M1 killer with ability to teleport through walls sometimes.
Im posting ideas that would make her what she is, but more balanced towards survivors, especially those who dont know how to deal with her yet.
I'm all in towards ideas to make her harder but more satisfying. And as i said - I AM a person who use her white nit comb and i dont see drawbacks of this addon, only unskilled nurses see difference. She is suppoused to be hard to learn and punishing for every mistake, and this should stary as it is to not make her too basic. She is good as she is, but some additional punishes towards not skilled nurses would make her not as "op".
Turning her white nit comb into a native aspect might work against average survivors, but absolutely not against experts.
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@Archael said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3267312#Comment_3267312
She does not have other rather than her blink attacks, unless specific addons, and careless survivors. Imagine deathslinger who cant hit survivors other than chained ones...
But i have other idea.
Her attacks are just attacks. But:
When she blinks in 2m radius from the survivor she screams and is put into instant fatigue, but survivor become haunted.
When she blinks near haunted survivor, then she dont sceam and can hit normally.
Haunted status can be cured outside killer terror radius by other survivor.
If survivor was not haunted for last 120s they became haunted.
So, with this haunted state system, to put a survivor down, you would have to make a first "hit" to start the haunting, then a second, to take away a first segment of health, then a 3rd to take away a 2nd segment of health 😮
This would be like adding an extra hit just to put a survivor down, which would make the nurse's gameplay catastrophic 😔
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@egg_ said:
The reasons of all these threads is because she needs some tuning down both on her basekit and add-ons, simple as that
It's easy to forget the fact that many players only grumble because they simply don't want to make an effort.
Mind you, I'm not saying "Nurse is perfect", of course I'm the first to say that she could do without Starstruck and NOED, that it wouldn't be a problem, but in the lot, many complain just because they are lazy.
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@NMCKE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3267361#Comment_3267361
Yes, that's true. No doubts about that, but it's the only thing I can think without making her entire power special (and consequently making a bunch of trash perks for her).
I have done first blink attacks before, so it shouldn't be a stretch, especially if you already have distance on them.
To realize how problematic having only one blink can be, just play with the matchbox all the time (even if it increases the base speed) 😣
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@NMCKE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3266963#Comment_3266963
I do believe her chain blink attacks should be special attacks, but her initial blink attack should be kept basic. It would encourage single blinks, meaning to get value, you will need to put in some more elbow grease.
The principle of the nurse is that the first blink is used in most cases to get closer to the intended target, not to attack it directly.
Of course, depending on the situation, the attack can be made during the first blink, but it remains occasional, especially against survivors who know what they are doing.
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@Lastchild said:
Otherwise the easiest suggestion to put in place to help newbie Nurses is to make the "Plaid Flannel" addon an option as a kind of switch in the base kit for those who want to use it.
This is an excellent proposal!
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@Lastchild said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3267324#Comment_3267324
Reducing her terror radius while carrying a survivor doesn't make sense.
On the other hand, reduce its basic terror radius, yes why not.
Yes, it would make complete sense, because it would prevent him from using Starstruck, without giving him any advantage in parallel 🤗
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@Lastchild said:
I think you misunderstood the suggestion that his blink attack is a special and not a basic attack.
The interest of this idea is not at all to prevent the nurse from using her power.
The interest is to reduce its oppression that it has thanks to the M1 perks (sloppy, startruck, Noed etc...)
This is to deter the player from putting an M1 perk on Nurse, as they will be forced to walk out of power to use them, which is a waste of time on Nurse.
so it reduces a lot of perk on Nurse, which is allowing survivors to get away with it more often.
And that's the problem.
There is no reason to deprive the nurse of using Jolt, Sloopy Butcher or K.O., for example 😥
I totally agree that NOED, with her, is way too strong; but in general, I never understood why this perk was created...🙄
As for Starstruck, just reduce the nurse's terror radius to 0 when she carries a survivor and the problem is solved 🤗
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@Archael said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3267018#Comment_3267018
Im talking about "White Nit Comb" which decrease lunge range from blink attacks.
When playing Nurse (And she is my best prestiged killer), i have no problem with presice blinks, and rarely lunge. While playing as surv im amazed how far she can "jump" after blink... This change alone would make good difference between good, and bad Nurse. She suppoused to be hard to learn, and this fits this.
About 3 hit. nemesis have no problem with this, Plauge have no problem with long chases. Sally in good hands would have no problem with chases with her power. Even better than both, Nemesis and Plague.
i may be masochist, but i would not complain about making her gameplay harder, but more satisfying. I remember how hard was learning her, how bullies destroyed my morale. But this is part of her kit - hard learning time, but satisfying mastery. Perfect blinks, downing endure survivors, efficient chases.
The difference between Nemesis and the Nurse is that Nemesis can choose to go down in 3 moves (if he wants to take advantage of it to raise his contamination gauge) or a classic down in 2 moves (if he just wants to M1 twice, or M1 the first time and M2 on the second move if the survivor is already infected)
My mistake, I thought you were talking about his Plaid Flannel.
Concerning the addon you are talking about, it does indeed handicap him in a very important way, and was designed for farming; that's why it is never used.
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@Sava18 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3266991#Comment_3266991
The issue I always have with your posts about nurse is you want the game to be balanced around nurse when that is absurd. And also Blight and Billy are not just "aim well = down" there are resources in the game that allow you to deal with blight and billy even if they predict you. Nurse on the other hand can just get lucky and down you. My issue with nurse is that she doesn't even lick blights feet in terms of max skill level but she is allowed to be the strongest killer.
Even when people who are insane against nurse are going against her, it's really just a bunch of 50/50s unless there is LOTS of LOS blockers not just one.
Here is a question for you. Give me one reason why nurses blink should be basic attacks still, I don't think there is any viable reason at this point.
Go watch alfs game vs hens team. There is way too many times where the agi starstruck build just auto wins him the game, in contrast to a slow down build. Nurse has the lack of counter play problems 3-4 blight add-ons give him but with add-ons and perks especially.
I'm not sure what you mean by "balancing the game around the nurse"; my point is that you can very well prevent the nurse from using certain mechanics, but that some of the proposals are a bit over the top.
I'm thinking of turning her M1 into an M2. Again, there is no reason why a nurse can't use Knockout, Sloopy Butcher, Jolt, if she wants.
On the other hand, I fully agree that if Supaalf uses the famous Starstruck / Agitation build so often, it's because he fully understood that this build is somehow a Deus Ex Machina when the nurse uses it.
That's why I'm in favor of simply reducing the Nanny's terror radius to 0 when she's carrying a survivor so that she can't use Starstruck anymore.
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@Archael said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3267015#Comment_3267015
Endurance, and dead hard protects from injuries, applying this special status would work even when survivor is under endurance, and after that everything would looks like current. So its not as big difference, as you try to see it.
Yet, the idea was to have his first attack just apply some sort of haunting to the survivor, right?
The result would have been: hit 1 = 0 damage + haunt, hit 2 = wounded status, hit 3 = critical status? Did I understand correctly?
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3267015#Comment_3267015
Youre saying that when literally every other killer would have to deal with the exact same thing, but probably worse considering the amount of map offerings you see.
Unless I misunderstood, the suggestion was to change the way the nurse attacked, and only her way; the other killers were not affected.
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@Grandpa_Crack_Pipe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3266993#Comment_3266993
I can guarantee you that the vast majority of the Nurse complaints are because they feel like nothing they do against the Nurse matters. Which they feel because unless there's a noticable skill mismatch or they didn't come stacked to prepare for it, there's going to be basically nothing to they can do. Which isn't helped because even if there is something they can do, they're generally going to be stomped before they can even try to learn. And if it's a very good nurse, the only thing they can really do is just smash the gens as fast as possible and ignore everything else, which makes the game boring for everyone.
A lil tweak won't change anything. It's the whole power. But Nurse is an established identity they can't just get rid of. So we're all screwed.
Even if you fall into melodrama at the end, you refer to an interesting detail: the learning curve.
I think some players, from progressing very very very slowly against the nurse, conclude: "Every time I play against the nurse, I lose, SO it's not normal."
In fact, they don't realize that they are progressing very slowly against her, and progressing much faster against the other killers; so they feel like they should be as strong against her as against any other killer, which skews their view.
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When you talk about putting his "meme" addon basekit, you're talking about the plaid, I imagine?
Putting the basekit would be interesting on the sole condition that the player can choose to activate or deactivate the addon at any time, as an option.
As for the haunting, that would be like turning the chases into a 3-hit kill; 1 haunt + 2 hits; to which will be added a 4th in the event of DH, OTR or styptic agent ... chases in 3 moves, nurses are already attacking with DH and OTR, and I can assure you that chases look like this PERMANENTLY , that would just be the death of fun.
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@Archael said:
I just read first page of this thread, and i'm going to read the rat, but i need to add my two cents here.
What is Nurse problem exactly?
Before starting to repair her, we need to adress the exact problem.
Nurse was designed to hide and seek dead by daylight as it was back before community discovered, and mastered looping.
To counter Nurse, maybe we should work with her view? She supposed to be played not by looping, but by braking line of sight, we should be able to hide well against her.
Also, idea of making her attacks requiring 1 more hit to be effective seems good to reduce her power. Exposed status would work, and reduce number of hits to 2 from 3.
"Also, idea of making her attacks requiring 1 more hit to be effective seems good to reduce her power."
No thanks. I can assure you that games against full DH, OTR, Styptic Agent, etc. are the most horrible things for nurses to experience.
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@Reinami said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3266782#Comment_3266782
The problem there is a single perk that causes it. It isn't to make her blink attacks special attacks. Because unlike any other killer, she would literally NEVER be able to do a basic attack otherwise and then a significant number of WEAKER perks would be useless on her, forcing her into the hard meta perks, making her more oppressive. The better solution to the starstruck problem is to give her a super tiny terror radius (like 8 meters) and give her a 40 meter lullaby.
I completely agree about the TR being reduced to 0 when carrying the survivor; I had moreover proposed this solution several times to counter Starstruck on the nurse; on the other hand, I do not agree on the fact of transforming the M1 of the nurse into M2.
There's no reason to stop her from using perks like Jolt, K.O., STBFL, or Sloopy Butcher. I agree about Starstruck, NOED and Franklin.
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@Hensen2100 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3266953#Comment_3266953
Yeah, in a game that is trying to bill itself as competitive it kinda blows my mind she has remained the way she is for so long.
I have 0 respect for Nurse players and I used to main her back when I was a noob who didn't know how to play the game. Total crutch character for baddies, similar to old Spirit. It's annoying how people will say she takes so much skill to play when you can pick her up in a few days and dumpster 99% of teams
At least when people say Blight takes skill to play, they are actually correct
"I have 0 respect for Nurse players"
I just have a question : why ?
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@JustAnotherNewbie said:
Out of all your points I'd strongly agree with point A, not sure about the rest. Maps with low walls and rocks really make it hard to "counter" Nurse and not many people mention it.
But I do think people are more ok than they should really be with Nurse. One thing I hate more than sweaty Nurses is "nice" Nurses giving hatch (though if they give it to me it still makes me happy, ngl). I've said it before and I'll say it again. If killers played less nice the stats would be different. Now they don't need to run 4 slowgen perks to make my point (although that would help immensely) but Killers have more agency. if they see the game is going well then can loosen up and allow one or two survivors to escape. Now maybe those aren;t killer mains? Who knows. The thing is killers don't always play for the win and if they did, their killrates would also be better (and let's not forget how common de-ranking is).
The problem with Nurse is that she's a free character and noobs play her, so she sucks. Her skill floor is high as others have mentioned here but everything else is easier for Nurse. She doesn't need to learn looping, camping and tunneling are even easier with her (she can momentarily leave hook and come back 2 seconds later lol).
No one complains about meh Nurses, those are fun to verse because if you know how to play them you can run them more than other killers as you don't rely on the limited resources of the map (basically you have unlimited resources). But that doesn't stand against more experienced Nurses and if they run aura reading then good luck mind-gaming them.
Even though the nurse is a free character, I think the "baby" nurse stage is actually very ephemeral.
Some players will play a few games with the nurse, and will get discouraged because they are too frustrated learning about her blinks, preshots, and muscle memory; others will, on the contrary, appreciate it, but suddenly go from baby nurse to correct nurse, then good, then very good, then excellent, then expert.
In addition, the nurse has been around for 6 years, and in 6 years, the baby nurses have had plenty of time to either move on to another killer, or perfect themselves, but leave this embryonic stage.
So of course, there obviously remains, and more are born every day.
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@Steakdabait said:
Survivor players really dislike killers who can undermine the gameplay loop that is looping. This is why trapper, hag, nurse, and artist are some of the most hated killers in the game. They can ether minimize or outright ignore what survivors consider what is the core gameplay of dbd. From this POV playing against nurse isn't actually playing dbd.
I would say that some players have a vision of DbD that matches what they would LOVE DbD to be, namely, a game with a unique looping system.
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@Sava18 said:
I mean in regards to (E). We know Nurse is the strongest killer in the game, every player on both sides agrees. Every killer put's you in situations where there is nothing you can do for the most part, the weaker killers far less than the stronger killers. Nurse does that more than any other killer. What baffles me is when making blight they tested his rush hits being basic attacks and it was way too strong. Currently what make's nurse unfair is the fact that she can insta-down you with her blinks. And don't give me that " but all she can do is blink", yeah that's correct play 5 game's and you will have most the muscle memory down and realize that she starts recharging her blinks while fatiguing. She has the highest skill floor, but her skill ceiling really just come's down to reading survivor's and nothing else.
(D) hag and blight come to mind here as well.
While I agree that obviously the nurse is the strongest killer in the game, it takes a lot more than 5 games to master her.
Because someone who comes to the game, and takes the nurse, he will be a baby nurse, and even when he starts to manage it a little better, his MMR will still be far below the teams of overtrained survivors who expect very very high MMR.
To say that the nurse is the HARDEST killer to play, I don't necessarily agree, because I think there is actually a group of maybe 3 or 4 killers that make up the difficulty podium , but to say that in a few days, you can ride on anything and everything, no, that's absolutely not the case.
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@TheSubstitute said:
Hey, I thought it would be interesting to go over reasons that the Nerf Nurse threads exist as I think the reasons why they exist are more complicated than the usual 'this might be too strong' or the 'I want everything to benefit me' arguments.
Disclaimer: First of all, I will say I agree with Otz when he says 'Current Nurse is not that bad really' starting at 10:50 of his 'My suggested changes for each Killer' video from three weeks ago.
Now, for my conjecture on why the additional reasons why they exist.
(A) Maps do not have consistent LOS blockers. Nurse is different because she has different chase mechanics than other Killers. However, Nurse is one of the Killers such as Blight and Billy where if they can aim accurately you're done for. People remember bad experiences more than good ones so these experiences stand out.
(B) People mischaracterize the win condition of games due to this being a 4v1 game. The win condition is not being able to outchase Nurse; the win condition is escaping. If the survivors do gens faster than the Nurse can down people then the survivors get a 3E or 4E and win. You may lose a lot of chases faster than you like but if you have a 3E or 4E the survivors still won.
(C) Egos get involved. Quite often skilled players who are self proclaimed 'survivor mains' are really good at chase, quite often like messing with the Killer, and some of them DC on first down or before the last hook as a 'nyah, you didn't actually get me' move. Messing with the Killer is harder to do against Nurse. However, the win condition is not out chasing Nurse; the win condition is escaping. Being able to outrun a Killer for five gens will contribute to a win but is not the only path to get there.
(D) Nurse has different chase mechanics than every other Killer in the game. The only way to improve against Nurse is to versus Nurse or play as Nurse. This means a lot of players who are really skilled against other Killers can really struggle against Nurse.
(E) Bandwagoning, echo chambers and perception. People have complained about Nurse for a long time so an inertia has been built up regarding Nurse. However, if the data does not match your perception then that's probably because your perception is wrong. To be clear, I don't know if Nurse is completely fine or needs changes because I don't have the data. However, neither do the Nerf Nurse posters as only BHVR has the data. The only data we have is limited and it doesn't indicate an issue but only BHVR has the comprehensive data necessary to interpret it completely correctly. As such, all statements on whether Nurse is fine or not are opinions and not fact. Are people actually complaining about Nurse over an actual issue that has a disproportionate effect on wins or because other people do so?
(F) Taking video games too seriously. This is seen in the posters who try to ascribe negative characteristics or launch personal insults against Nurse players and/or people who disagree with them about Nurse. There is no reason to attack someone for either playing a character in a video game or who has an opinion that's different from yours about a video game. Doing either shows that your judgment is clouded by taking video games too seriously and you need perspective.
(G) Slamming a pallet into a Killer is more of a dopamine rush than out mind gaming a Nurse. It's sort of like how Wesker’s power is fun even if it doesn't result in a damaging effect. Throwing survivors is fun and so are pallet slams, flashbangs and Head On plays. The effects of this make outchasing a Killer you can hit with pallets, Head On, etc a more memorable experience than outchasing a Nurse.
Anyway, I think the items listed above complicate the situation so I thought I'd throw that out there.
(A) Maps do not have consistent LOS blockers. Nurse is different because she has different chase mechanics than other Killers. However, Nurse is one of the Killers such as Blight and Billy where if they can aim accurately you're done for. People remember bad experiences more than good ones so these experiences stand out.
The tricky part is finding the balance.
Some maps are a purge for the nurse; I'm thinking of Lery in particular. The number of walls is absolutely absurd, not for nothing is it the worst map for the nurse.
However, I'm not complaining about it, beware! I was just talking about the technical aspect.
Other maps are easier for them, even if it depends on the survivors in front of them, of course.
For example, on ... the nurse's map itself, the asylum, the central building is obnoxious when used against her, but on the other hand, there are nice deadzones all around, even if a survivor who goes around the building along the wall might be problematic for the nurse who follows him.
That's the challenge: how to create a map that has enough LOS breakers, without falling into "not enough" or "way too much hello Lery!"
"(B) People mischaracterize the win condition of games due to this being a 4v1 game. The win condition is not being able to outchase Nurse; the win condition is escaping. If the survivors do gens faster than the Nurse can down people then the survivors get a 3E or 4E and win. You may lose a lot of chases faster than you like but if you have a 3E or 4E the survivors still won."
I also think that in addition to what you say, some players compare the nurse to the other killers, as far as the hunt is concerned; against the other killers, it is quite possible, depending on the loops, to envisage the killer LOSING the hunt; against a nurse, it is of course also possible to envisage it, nurse=/=losing the hunt, but the probability is of course less; as a result, the goal is no longer to win the hunt, but to make the nurse lose as much time as possible I know I'm pushing an open door, but I really feel that some people lose sight of this detail.
(D) Nurse has different chase mechanics than every other Killer in the game. The only way to improve against Nurse is to versus Nurse or play as Nurse. This means a lot of players who are really skilled against other Killers can really struggle against Nurse.
I had mentioned this point several times, on some threads.
The problem is that we have on one side the nurse, and on the other side the (soon) 29 other killers with an identical movement pattern (they walk).
Statistically, a survivor, in his life as a survivor, will encounter many more "walkers" than nurses; so they will become, in the end, much better at facing "walkers" than at facing nurses.
This explains why we sometimes find survivors with 3k, 4k hours, who can play well against walkers, but who play like potatoes against nurses.
Moreover, and I agree with you on this, the best way to learn how to play nurses is to either play them, or, even better, to meet, know, and work with a main nurse, in order to be trained in a personalized game against him.
The best way is to get to know several hand nurses, in order to vary the types of gameplay during the training.
Some people will tell me : "It's only a game, we shouldn't have to train !"; which would not be a valid argument, when we see the amount of energy that the survivors deploy to learn by heart the loop paterne in the shack, in the LT, to learn by heart the position of the people / totems for each iteration of each map, etc.
"(E) Bandwagoning, echo chambers and perception. People have complained about Nurse for a long time so an inertia has been built up regarding Nurse. However, if the data does not match your perception then that's probably because your perception is wrong. To be clear, I don't know if Nurse is completely fine or needs changes because I don't have the data. However, neither do the Nerf Nurse posters as only BHVR has the data. The only data we have is limited and it doesn't indicate an issue but only BHVR has the comprehensive data necessary to interpret it completely correctly. As such, all statements on whether Nurse is fine or not are opinions and not fact. Are people actually complaining about Nurse over an actual issue that has a disproportionate effect on wins or because other people do so?"
Indeed, we are talking about the mass effect.
A person will start complaining about something, trying to pass on his feeling, and only his feeling, as a universal truth.
And from there, others will say: "Oh, but wait, he thinks the same thing as me, it must be true?!"; or "What does he say? That this, that and that? Yes, though ... not wrong ..."
Finally, some will go so far as to use this kind of rallying to comfort themselves in their own ideas, even if it means considering only this truth as THE established and irrefutable truth.
I wonder: do people say the nurse is too strong because she is?
Or is the nurse too strong ... because people think so and say so?
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My daily life with GhostFace :
When I play AGAINST him : I can follow him for 10s WITHOUT revealing him 🤣🤣 OR if I don't want to revealing him, all I have to do is look at the half a quarter of the beginning of the fraction on the end of its smallest strip to instantly reveal him 😂😂
When I play AS : as soon as I put a toe out of a hiding place, I get revealed by the 4 survivors, the 4 other survivors of the previous lobby, the killer of the previous lobby, their parents, mine, and my cat 🤣🤣🤣
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I want the nurse to steal the GhostFace strips.
Let me explain: the effect of the strips "floating" in the air behind Ghosty is really cool 🤗
I'm dreaming of a creepy ghostly outfit for the nurse, whose dress would fly in the wind in the same way 😍
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@Bot_Salvo88 said:
It doesn't look like a killer bot. This looks like a killer who lost and is begging you to escape since end game collapse started. Or simply he saw that he was going to lose after the first chase and went afk. A killer bot will immediatly kill all 4 survivors within seconds and it's extremely rare to find (not even sure if they're around anymore).
With a simple auto-click little software, a player can leave his game on for a few hours to lower his MMR considerably.
I had come across one long ago, it was not moving but was kicking in the air at regular intervals 😅
With the other 3 survivors, we took turns taking hits, getting healed, taking hits, getting knocked down, getting up, getting healed, until we had completely filled our objective bars; I think we must have ended up with 20-25k each 😂
Personally, I'd rather deal with this kind of afk killer 100 times than with a Bubba camping in the basement like a madman 🙄
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3266275#Comment_3266275
awakened awareness
It was obvious that this perk was going to be nerfed; in fact, even when used by other killers, the version of the original perk that showed auras AFTER the hook would have given them too much power. This perk should simply have been designed as it is now 🤗
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3266187#Comment_3266187
It's not just MYC that needs to be held back because nurse exists. AA got the same treatment. And I am pretty sure there are many more perks suffering from exactly the same thing.
AA ?
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@Raygun said:
the Michael Myers add on that allows him to instantly kill any survivor when he reaches tear 3 should not be in the game, I don’t care it it’s much harder to get nothing should allow you to instantly kill survivors that you haven’t touched all game
"instantly kill survivors that you haven't touched all game"
I think you mean "in early/mid game", because Rancor allows you to do (almost) exactly that to the obsession, or even to several people if the obsession changes player.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3266120#Comment_3266120
The only reason why MYC is 30s is nurse (maybe spirit with MDR, and now maybe wesker - still they aren't nearly so good at it). All the other killers don't have mobility to turn and use (so no blight because M1) that expose in those 30s to get that down. The perk is trash tier on anybody else. It needs to be at least 45s maybe even 60s long. But it can't. Because nurse exists and she already gets value out of it as is.
A solution for MYC would be to change the nurse's M1 to M3 (a special attack of her own); and to modify MYC in the following way:
- during the first 30 seconds, MYC would give a special malus to the survivor, a kind of "super exposed", which would work with M1 but also with M3
- from the 31st second, and up to 60s (to use your example) MYC would switch to a classic "exposed" malus, which would only work with an M1
Also, we can keep in mind that on paper, MYC allows you to one-shot a survivor, but in practice, it is obviously different.
If the nurse is hunting someone else when MYC activates, she gets no value from it; if the survivor has Vigil, he or she is only exposed for 21s (if my calculations are correct).
Although a strong perk, it is still situational.
PS : Of course, some nurses play like [insert insult of choice] and wait in the distance, keeping the hook in sight, so they can instantly return to the closest survivor affected (sort of like proxi camping), but that is independent of the perk.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3265107#Comment_3265107
We're falling into the trap of discussing specific perks again, when the problem is the ability to use Exposed at all with a power that travels through walls.
But, to continue for a moment- Make Your Choice causes the affected survivor to scream, so unless there are duplicates of a specific survivor in the match (which, to be fair, does happen sometimes) the Nurse will know who it is that's affected. No comment on NOED, but Haunted Grounds is often paired with Retribution, and there's no waiting it out when your location is visible through walls.
Devour Hope is the one I most want to comment on, though, because of course it justifies the Nurse not being able to use it. The problem is that being able to instadown people through walls is too strong, so any perk that allows her to do that is a problem-- that's why I tried to steer away from discussing the specific perks, because the ability to do it at all presents balance problems.
It's also why the perks themselves aren't too strong. Unlike survivor perks, killer perks have a range of strengths depending on which killer uses them, and I don't think a single killer should have such a chokehold on an entire genre of perks when changing that single killer is a much more appropriate call. None of the perks we're discussing are overpowered or obnoxious on any other killer for the most part, it's just Nurse.
"Make Your Choice causes the affected survivor to scream, so unless there are duplicates of a specific survivor in the match (which, to be fair, does happen sometimes) the Nurse will know who it is that's affected."
This presupposes that the killer is able to recognize the survivor by his scream alone; I suspect that some players are so used to this that they can do it, but honestly, I don't think it's the first way to locate a target with this perk. And even if the nurse determines that it's, say, Feng Min who's exposed, if he can't find her because she's keeping a low profile until the malus wears off, it's still the same.
In fact, it is mostly the coupling of MYC with Flood of Rage that is dangerous, as well as the Haunted Grounds / Retribution combo, or Devour Hope.
When my team and I come across a retribution killer, the moment we know the perk is activated, we do our best to place ourselves in places where the killer will have the most difficulty taking advantage of it; of course, of course, this doesn't protect us 100%, but it allows us to last the 15s more safely than if we just kept doing what we were doing.
But this is also the principle of the game; the nurse cannot be left with only basic or weak skills because she is basically strong. We can for example avoid aberrations like Starstruck or NOED, but we must not fall into pure and simple exaggeration.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3265154#Comment_3265154
it's the best that we have. And it does not rely on someone's feeling or personal experience.
Meaning I could take trapper without any addons on say crow's map and get easy 4K if survivors don't pay attention to any traps and fall for them like crazy - from this personal experience I could say trapper is very OP and in fact needs huge nerf to traps especially (make them glow or something). Or maybe I played that game against people that just started the game and it's unfair comparison. How do I get something that's more fair? Right - by looking at large number of games. Which in the end are killer stats provided by game.
Sure enough such raw data probably needs some context/interpretation, but that thing needs to be backed up by said data. So for example if we see that nurse IS much stronger than the data suggest, then maybe we need to look why that could be the case. And one explanation is, that games that would be in her favor are actually filtered out (not counted) - because they would fall into DC category. So maybe that is the actual case. There might be some different reason, but nobody gave any alternate plausible explanation. So I am going with DC's actually screw up nurse's kill rate.
The point being - you are fully allowed to criticize reasons/interpretation of the statistics. But not the stats itself. That is just wrong and shows the bias you have (I don't like those stats so they have to be wrong).
I may have misspoken about these statistics, I am not criticizing them at all; I would be hard pressed to do so, as we are not even sure of some of the details 🤗
It would be interesting to have an official response from BHVR (or a link to said response, which may have already been given somewhere) on the following:
- Are DCs counted as "kills"? Or are they just not counted in the killrate of the killers?
- when a player DCs in a game, is that game counted in the killrate of the killer it is?
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3265119#Comment_3265119
AFAIK games in which someone DC's are not counted. So if 1 survivor DC's, then it's not 1K that is not counted in for nurse. It's "4K" that are not part of statistics.
Oh, okay, I didn't know that detail! So, we can say that the killrate of the killers is completely representative of the reality of the games :-)
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There is also something that occurred to me about the nurse's killrate, which is, from memory, around 53%.
Some people make the argument, "The nurse is fine because her killrate is correct."
So far, I understand the argument.
To which others respond, "No, the killrate is biased because it doesn't take into account the players' DCs against the nurse."
An argument I also completely understand.
Indeed, it is reasonable to think that the players who DC as soon as they hear the first blink of the nurse are players who would not have been able to/will not play against her anyway.
We can therefore reasonably classify them as "potential kills for the nurse".
In other words, these DCs, which are not counted in the nurse's killrate, are in fact uncounted "kills", which should therefore increase her killrate.
So far, I agree.
But this is where it gets a little tricky.
Everyone will agree that when these players DC because "I don't like the nurse", they do it in early game.
DC in early game is like completely distorting the game, leaving 4 or 5 generators to repair for 3 survivors, against the strongest killer in the game. No need to draw you a picture, 3K (or 2K if trap).
Therefore, EVERY time a player DCs against the nurse, he actually distorts the nurse's killrate himself because if he had stayed, maybe she would have done the same number of kills (3), but maybe less, in any case, never more.
Some people might then reply to me, "Yes, but the number of DCs is anecdotal, so the number of falsified games is too."
Okay, but then there's a dilemma.
Either there are a LOT of DCs against the nurse in the early game, and thus, a LOT of games artificially giving her extra kills, and thus an upwardly biased killrate.
mber of DCs is NOT enough to offer enough "fake wins" to bias her killrate upwards, BUT in this case, it means that the number of DCs is basically anecdotal AND, if this is the case, the argument : "The nurse's killrate is not compliant because it doesn't take into account DCs that should be kills" is no longer valid, because the killrate would only be very slightly increased
It would be interesting if BHVR could indicate what the nurse's killrate is, if they were counting DCs as deaths, as well as the proportion of DCs that exist in games against the nurse.
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@Lastchild said:
This subject is useless, everyone is already in agreement for the nurse's blink attacks to become special attacks.
It's a bit ironic to talk about the uselessness of this or that thing when in the rest of your sentence, you try to pass off the opinion of a few people as a general truth by using a generalization...🙄
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@TurboTOne said:
You know the Addon that shows the Blink Location ?
What if Survivors could see the Blink Location.
Thats just an idea. No idea how that would play in a real Match.
This would be disastrous for the nurse, as it would be like giving the survivors a kind of reverse aimbot.
Knowing where the nurse is aiming all the time, they could avoid her all the time 😔
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3264432#Comment_3264432
Even if I were to agree that MYC is not a problem (which I don't agree, the Nurse knows who is Exposed and knows they have to be nearby), that still leaves NOED, Haunted Grounds, Devour Hope, and Starstruck.
None of these perks are problematic on other killers, just her, so none of them should be removed or nerfed, and reducing her terror radius doesn't fix the other three on that list. It also, again, does nothing to protect against future perks being busted on her.
For the handful of perks that she would want to use and that aren't OP on her like Sloppy, I still maintain giving her addons with those effects is a better call.
The nurse can only know the identity of the exposed survivor with Flood of range, and its aura detection. And she has to be at 32 meters, moreover.
Regarding NOED, as I said, I agree that it is too powerful a perk on the nurse. I also think that NOED is a perk that could totally disappear from the game without being problematic, because sometimes it carries killers that get dominated during the whole game (not very logical in itself).
As for Haunted Ground, the malus can be avoided by hiding until it passes; that's exactly what happened to me, with my survival team and a nurse who had it. Luckily, nobody was chasing us, so we stayed hidden for the duration of the malus, and then we resumed the game as normal.
Obviously if it is triggered while someone is chasing, the latter can be accelerated, but the 3 others can still hide and resume the game.
As for Starstruck, the solution is quite simple: just decrease the TR of the nurse when she carries a survivor.
As for Devour Hope, it is indeed a very powerful skill on the nurse; but does it justify preventing her from using it? No, it doesn't.
Concerning the "future advantages" you're talking about, it's up to the developers to think about these advantages, before implementing them, and to think about the synergies they will have with this or that killer.
You don't change a killer AFTER a new perk gives him too much power, it's the perk that needs to be redesigned.
Let's say a new perk is created for the survivors:
"Last opportunity.
If you are in good health, and you lose a segment of health following a basic attack, you will run at 200% of your speed for 30s."
Now imagine players complaining and saying, "This perk is too powerful because survivors become absolutely unstoppable! We need to nerf the survivors!", we agree that we would reply, "No, we just need to nerf the perk, not the survivors."
It's the same thing with the nurse and the new benefits that are coming.
And regarding turning perks into addons, it's a bad idea, simply because there's no reason why a nurse can't use Sloopy Butcher if she feels like it, for example, or Knocked Out, if it makes her happy.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3264363#Comment_3264363
I disagree that those two are the only problems, as Make Your Choice and Haunted Grounds (+ Retribution) are both very strong on Nurse, but even assuming that it is only Starstruck-- even after you fix that perk, you still have the problem that no Exposed perk can ever be very good or it'll be broken on Nurse.
Returning back to at least five of the Exposed perks (MYC, Haunted, Devour, Starstruck, kinda-sorta NOED) being a problem on top of future Exposed perks also being a concern, is it not just much simpler to make the Blink attacks Special Attacks? That neatly solves the current problem and future-proofs Nurse against problematic perk synergy in the future.
There is the mild potential issue of perk synergy, but realistically, only a handful of basic attack perks are any good and at least two of them have already been translated into standard addons for many killers - Sloppy Butcher and Franklin's Demise - so there's no reason Nurse can't get the same treatment there.
You don't have to overcomplicate this with a third type of attack, you can just tweak Nurse to be in line with every other killer. Not using basic attack perks is a tiny price to pay for the strongest and most oppressive power in the game.
Make your choice can be avoided if the person who picked it up remains hidden and inconspicuous until the end of the malus; the only time this perk becomes really dangerous is when it is coupled with Flood of rage.
And even taking this combo into account, if the nurse is in the middle of a chase when Make Your Choice activates, there's not much point in stopping the chase altogether to go to the other end of the map.
"Not using basic attack perks is a tiny price to pay for the strongest and most oppressive power in the game."
I don't see why a nurse should be deprived of a whole bunch of perks, because of the fact that some other perks like NOED or Starstruck are a problem.
If I want to play Sloopy Butcher on my nurse, there's no reason why I can't.
Removing NOED, and preventing her from using Starstruck by reducing her TR when carrying a survivor, but leaving her K.O., Sloopy Butcher, etc. as well as the other perks that any killer can use makes much more sense to me.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3264338#Comment_3264338
You didn’t read my post. Most Nurse players aren’t “still learning” to play Nurse, and they aren’t overperforming either.
It’s not one or the other. People don’t magically switch from “still learning” to “curb stomping everyone”
This could be rephrased by the following proposition.
If nurses were A.I.'s who learned consent, then yes, they would all become unstoppable machines because they could use 100% of the nurse's abilities.
The fact is that players are limited by their psychological abilities, intelligence, and reflexes.
Some may spend thousands of hours on the Nurse and never get beyond "Pretty good Nurse" while others will quickly grasp how it works and become geniuses.
Nurse has been around for 6 years, in 6 years the number of players who are hand nurses has had time to grow and set up, but that doesn't mean they are always progressing.
Some will remain forever "relatively gifted" nurses, without ever going further.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3264273#Comment_3264273
Going through the list of perks makes it easy to lose sight of a very core concept- that being, it is too strong for a killer to be able to instadown you through walls. Yes, a few of the Exposed perks aren't very good in general and thus the Nurse has a hard time using them, but the ones that she can use become too strong by the very nature of how the Nurse's power functions.
You also have to consider that it's not just the Exposed perks we have now, it's any Exposed perks the developers want to add in the future. Current perk design is hamstrung by the fact that the Nurse might make any new perk completely busted; that's what happened with Starstruck, which is an only pretty okay perk on most of the roster and a nightmare on the Nurse.
As for the other basic attack perks that don't inflict Exposed, they are acceptable collateral damage. One thing that might be fair would be to retool the Nurse's addons to give her back some of those perk effects, where applicable- one for giving Sloppy Butcher's effects, one for giving Franklin's Demise's effects, and so on. Some of them aren't a problem, but enough are that the Nurse's Blinks should be special attacks.
The only real problem is Starstruck and eventually NOED, the latter being a perk that all killers could honestly do without.
It is very easy to prevent the nurse from using Starstruck, by changing her TR when transporting a survivor. No need to touch her basic attack.
However, a modification could allow some killers to be up without affecting the nurse, and that, however, would be interesting.
Let's take the example of Jolt, who has a range of 32 meters.
Now let's imagine that we create, in addition to basic attacks and special attacks, a third type of attack (which already exist somewhere), teleported attacks, which would only be specific to post-blink attacks. Let's call this new type of attack "M3".
This would allow Jolt to be up for all the other killers, while keeping him as he is for the nurse; example :
- Jolt caused by an M1: 40m range
- Jolt caused by an M3 : 32m range
As for NOED, in order for the nurse not to be able to use it anymore, it would be enough to code the status "Exposed" as follows:
AS LONG AS [exposed status] occurs when there are 3+ unrepaired generators left on the map
THEN [exposed status] can be triggered by an M1 or an M3
IF [exposed status] occurs when there are 2- unrepaired generators left on the map
THEN [exposed status] can be triggered by an M1 only
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@VikingDragonXii said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3264250#Comment_3264250
The sad part is everyone is just DCing or flat out quiting when facing a Nurse that they won't get any skills when dealing with her.....I'm a horrid Nurse player and When I decide to pop her out to practice with her I get 1-2 DCs after my first blink.....the majority of people who call for stupid reasons or just say NERF NURSE without adding anything new to the conversation probably don't have the skills to even deal with the babiest of nurses
What you say is interesting.
I am a main nurse.
Mind you, when I say "main", I don't mean "level of mastery", but "time spent".
I think I have a good level with her, I know her mechanics, my muscle memory and reflexes are good; I am not at the level of tournament nurses, but I am doing well.
I have almost no DC in early game when I play with it.
Out of thousands of games, the number of early game DCs is really anecdotal, as is the number of salty survivors insulting me in the end chat.
So, indeed, if the nurses who have a few hours with this killer know a lot of DC, it says a lot about the mentality and the level of those who DC...
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@jesterkind said:
I definitely agree with the first two- making her attacks Special Attacks is a no-brainer that I'll touch on more in a second, and I think losing her tokens when she's stunned gives the survivor some more options for dealing with the most oppressive power in the game. I don't think pallets are really the most impactful stuns though- wiggle-off stuns, Head On, and Decisive Strike should also drain her tokens, because those are straight useless against her in the current state.
For the third, though, I don't think that's as good an idea. Since her Blinks should be Special Attacks anyway, reducing her TR isn't going to be necessary. If anything, she should probably have a bigger Terror Radius like Wesker does, so survivors have more advance warning. Though, I don't think that's necessary so much as one option that could be explored, I don't think her TR needs messing with personally.
Regarding Blinks for a second, I'm not sure why so many people respond to that by saying she'd have no way of using Basic Attack perks with that change, because... yeah? That's the goal? It's the whole idea, to stop her from using Exposed and other impactful perks. Still, it's not actually true- she currently has a gimmick addon that makes her 115% in exchange for disabling her Blinks after she lands a successful attack, so just retool that addon into a brown with slightly different parameters and it can allow for builds where Nurse uses Basic Attack perks.
"Regarding Blinks for a second, I'm not sure why so many people respond to that by saying she'd have no way of using Basic Attack perks with that change, because... yeah? That's the goal?"
There is no problem with the nurse being able to use Sloopy Butcher, Gold K.O., etc. These are not perks that turn her into a weapon of mass destruction.
Only NOED becomes abused when in her hands (but generally speaking, it is NOED himself who should leave the game).
Regarding the "Exposed" status, there is no need to deprive the nurse from using the perks that include it.
Except for Starstruck (but the solution is simple: TR of 0 when carrying a survivor), the Exposed status does not really need to be removed from the nurse's possibilities.
There are 9 skills that work with the Exposed status.
If we remove NOED and Starstruck, which I agree with (but whose problem could be solved without changing the nurse's attack), there are 7 left.
Out of these 7, only Devour Hope is really dangerous, because it affects everyone, in addition to generating a totem that is sometimes very well hidden.
Dragon's Grip / Make your choice / Haunted Ground can be avoided by hiding until the malus disappears.
Hubris requires to knock out the nurse with a paddle, so it happens very rarely (or on baby nurses who don't know the maps).
Iron Maiden : besides the fact that, technically, once the first survivor is exposed, everyone can potentially have the information, and thus avoid going into a locker, this skill is only moderately effective with the nurse, as it is extremely situational, even if it can surprise survivors who are used to hiding in a locker to avoid the teleported attack and get out of the locker while the nurse is tired
Rancor: if the nurse has already killed the obsession during the game, the skill becomes useless (unless coupled with others allowing to change the obsession); and if the obsession is still alive, she had the whole game to understand that it is Rancor and therefore sneak in endgame.
Make your choice can become very dangerous if coupled with Floods of Rage, but this is only one of hundreds of combos.
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@Ghouled_Mojo said:
Reducing her terror radius will result in surprise blinks and grabs. Might not be the best decision???
We were not talking about a total reduction of its TR, but only when she carries a survivor, so that Strastruck is no longer of any use to her 😉
Depriving her of her RT while transporting a survivor would give her absolutely no advantage. The only consequence would be that she would no longer be able to use Strastruck.
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@burt0r said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3263956#Comment_3263956
What the hell is clafoutis?
(I know i could google but let's engage in a conversation 😜)
Google said: a type of flan made of fruit, typically cherries, baked in a sweet batter.
Personally, I think it's not just a simple dish, it's a blessed dish straight from heaven, that the Gods invented one day of great goodness 🤗
In fact, the DbD killers themselves love clafoutis 😛
The survivors too!
Claudette, for example, who is always hidden in the bushes 😣
In fact, she's not hiding! She is looking for berries for her own recipes! 😮
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@Huge_Bush said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3263956#Comment_3263956
What is raspberry cauliflower and how can you suggest it’s better than apple pie??!??
Sacrilege! I didn't say cauliflower, but clafoutis 😃
The ultimate in culinary delicacy 😍
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
What is this thread?
I know some people are definitely tired of seeing "nerf nurse" threads, especially the ones with little to no contributions towards providing proper feedback an ideas, so I went out of my way to collect some of the community's best ideas towards lowering Nurse to be on par with other killers.
This is not a thread about me complaining about Nurse, while I do have my issues with Nurse, this thread is entirely devoted towards community ideas. I want people to have a place to properly discuss potential ways of balancing Nurse in a productive way.
Community's Ideas...
Special Attacks:
Many people in the community want Nurse's Blink Attack to count as Special Attacks. It's pretty common knowledge that Nurse's Blink Attack counts as a Basic Attack, which grants them access to slowdown such as Sloppy Butcher as well as Exposed perks such as Make Your Choice and Star Struck. These perks can be really problematic in a casual setting so reducing the effectiveness of such is a good start.
Pallets:
As many of you know, Pallets are borderline useless against Nurse, and while you can stun a Nurse while they are Blinking (which requires good timing and skill), doing so will in most cases still result in a hit. To make things more fair for the survivors who get the proper timing down for such, many people in the community believe that the Nurse should lose all of their power's tokens and be forced to recharge their power when stunned by a Pallet. Which would require the Nurse player to play around Pallets more cautiously, using their ability to go through walls to their advantage to avoid said Pallets.
Reduced Terror Radius + New Lullaby:
This one community idea is meant specifically to reduce the potency of Star Struck on Nurse but allowing Nurse players to use Exposed perks. Reducing the Nurse's Terror Radius does not completely elimination the usage of Star Struck but makes it less likely to be used in certain settings, however due to the reduced Terror Radius, survivors might not be alerted so much to the Killer's positioning, so a Lullaby mechanic similar to Huntress or Trickster is meant to supplement such.
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Special Attacks:
Turning the nurse's basic attack into a special attack will prevent her from using certain skills like Sloopy Butcher, Jolt, Knock Out, Franklin's Demise, NOED, etc.
Apart from NOED which is really a rather aberrant skill in itself, especially with the nurse, there is no reason to deprive the nurse from using the other skills.
Pallets:
What about the nurses who get knocked out with a paddle when they are just walking, and not teleporting?
In addition, when a nurse is currently knocked out by a pallet in the middle of a teleportation, she is already getting tired and needs to recharge her teleportation token(s) that she just used.
Reduced Terror Radius + New Lullaby:
Preventing the nurse from using Starstruck is simple: just reduce her terror radius to 1m when she carries a survivor.
This would not make her more dangerous at all, because while she is carrying, she cannot teleport or perform charged attacks.
So there is no problem if her terror radius is almost non-existent during this phase.
Indeed, survivors do not need to hear the nurse to know where she is when she picks up the survivor; the survivor's aura is clearly visible on the ground and disappears when the killer picks him up. And even with Knock Out, they can still pinpoint the nurse's approximate location by listening for her terror beam before it disappears.
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And that's exactly why we need to talk about something really important.
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Personally, I think it depends on the moment of tasting 🤗