Nurse balance changes
I have seen lot of such threads. But almost none of them really touch the Nurse problems.
Most suggestions is to make her bling attack a status of non-basic attack, but this would means that she will have almost no m1... she is too slow to NOT use her blink attacks.
Other thing is about stuns, removing her blinks... this sound somewhat fair and in some instances it would really worked out, but she is already vulnerable to flashlights that totally blocks her power, and stuns her if she trys to use it... but yeah... this would work.
And another thing is her "exposed" status powerspike. yeah, this one really stands out, removing her mistakes, and makes her really powerfull.
I think i have a solution on the latter, but first i would like to talk a little.
Because, what is a real problem with her? Traversal? Power? Ability to hit through walls? Maybe all of it? Yes, its probably all of them, mostly because she was designed to dbd back in days when looping was not a case, and to outperform a killer, survivors suppouse to hide from it. lets remember that Nurse, without her power cannot reach a survivor, she is the only killer totally dependent on her power, and with this, her power cannot be nerfed. Also this makes her being who she is, and thus - this power cannot be changed, so we sould look at different places, where she would be nerfed, living her power as it is - blinks.
My idea is to tweaked her vision and making hide and seek a only and best strategy against her. I have not specific suggestions, some of them could be tried and checked: reduce her vow, add more fog on her screen, make survivors that stay still "unvisible" to her, lower sounds she can hear from survivors, lowered vision of bloodpools and scratchmarks. Maybe something else.
I found her lunge attacks could be reduced... her "meme" addon could become her basekit, i play with it almost all the time (unless doing challanges) and learn perfect blinks, tho i really hate this lunge when playing survivor (tho im terrible survivor so maybe its this). I dont think this reduction of attack range would affect skilled players tho.
But there is another...
Its not my idea, i saw this on someone elses respond in different topic, and make me thinking. What if: Before she can wound and down survivor, she have to hit them once and apply some specific debuff (it was called "haunted" iirc), which can be clansed. But before survivor is haunted, it cannot be wounded. This would mean that survivor that are exposed, cannot be downed in one hit unless they are already haunted. This could be work around and tested: should haunt transfer between survivors? How it should be clensed (usual mending is enough?)? Are there some other debuffs if survivor is haunted for a long time? Maybe haunt can be applyed passively if long time passed since last clense?
This suggestion would make Nurse less oppressive, and at the same time - dont mess with her power.
Dont get me wrong, im killer... I like playing nurse, i love ghostly themed killers (except Spirit... i dont like that her power totally depends on gear you have - better headphones = easier 4k). I will never accept reducing Nuse power since it would destroy her uniquness. I like her being "hard" killer... Yet i know she can be oppresing (tho i think that most her kills comes from broken morale... its my personal opinion from my games), and i think her basekit can be tweaked to make her even harder, and at the same time - more satisfying for those who are entitled to her, and really wants to learn her gameplay.
Comments
When you talk about putting his "meme" addon basekit, you're talking about the plaid, I imagine?
Putting the basekit would be interesting on the sole condition that the player can choose to activate or deactivate the addon at any time, as an option.
As for the haunting, that would be like turning the chases into a 3-hit kill; 1 haunt + 2 hits; to which will be added a 4th in the event of DH, OTR or styptic agent ... chases in 3 moves, nurses are already attacking with DH and OTR, and I can assure you that chases look like this PERMANENTLY , that would just be the death of fun.
Im talking about "White Nit Comb" which decrease lunge range from blink attacks.
When playing Nurse (And she is my best prestiged killer), i have no problem with presice blinks, and rarely lunge. While playing as surv im amazed how far she can "jump" after blink... This change alone would make good difference between good, and bad Nurse. She suppoused to be hard to learn, and this fits this.
About 3 hit. nemesis have no problem with this, Plauge have no problem with long chases. Sally in good hands would have no problem with chases with her power. Even better than both, Nemesis and Plague.
i may be masochist, but i would not complain about making her gameplay harder, but more satisfying. I remember how hard was learning her, how bullies destroyed my morale. But this is part of her kit - hard learning time, but satisfying mastery. Perfect blinks, downing endure survivors, efficient chases.
White Comb basekit?
Speaking as a console player, PLEASE NO! She's already handicapped; that would make her full on unplayable.
I think you misunderstood the suggestion that his blink attack is a special and not a basic attack.
The interest of this idea is not at all to prevent the nurse from using her power.
The interest is to reduce its oppression that it has thanks to the M1 perks (sloppy, startruck, Noed etc...)
This is to deter the player from putting an M1 perk on Nurse, as they will be forced to walk out of power to use them, which is a waste of time on Nurse.
so it reduces a lot of perk on Nurse, which is allowing survivors to get away with it more often.
So just doing her blink attack, a special attack, is enough for the survivors to stop complaining about her.
Now regarding the killers, is it really difficult to play ?
I would say it depends on the people.
But otherwise the suggestion about adding the "Plaid Flannel" addon as a disable option much more viable than putting "White Nit Comb" as a base kit, no thanks.
The difference between Nemesis and the Nurse is that Nemesis can choose to go down in 3 moves (if he wants to take advantage of it to raise his contamination gauge) or a classic down in 2 moves (if he just wants to M1 twice, or M1 the first time and M2 on the second move if the survivor is already infected)
My mistake, I thought you were talking about his Plaid Flannel.
Concerning the addon you are talking about, it does indeed handicap him in a very important way, and was designed for farming; that's why it is never used.
And that's the problem.
There is no reason to deprive the nurse of using Jolt, Sloopy Butcher or K.O., for example 😥
I totally agree that NOED, with her, is way too strong; but in general, I never understood why this perk was created...🙄
As for Starstruck, just reduce the nurse's terror radius to 0 when she carries a survivor and the problem is solved 🤗
It's not to deter them from using m1 perks it's a big f u here is a list of perks u as a nurse main will never use again lol. If they ever made her blink a m2 attack they need to up her speed because every killer should be able to use every perk.
In that case here is my suggestion :
Reducing her terror radius while carrying a survivor doesn't make sense.
On the other hand, reduce its basic terror radius, yes why not.
Yeah why not looks good.
I would play her so much cause I like the esthetic and lore but I can't learn her for the love of God and matchbox is an iri addon God knows why so I can't really fall back on that
Otherwise the easiest suggestion to put in place to help newbie Nurses is to make the "Plaid Flannel" addon an option as a kind of switch in the base kit for those who want to use it.
I don't understand.
If you find that my idea is a bad idea as a base kit, please explain.
Yes, it would make complete sense, because it would prevent him from using Starstruck, without giving him any advantage in parallel 🤗
This is an excellent proposal!
Wait I think you misunderstood I don't think that it is a bad idea. I like it i mean I don't know how fast the speed you mentioned is relativ to survivor speed but it sounds good and is what I would like to see cause like I said I like matchbox addon for Nurse and your idea is basicly matchbox with m2 blink wich is totally fine if her base speed is fast enough to realistically get m1 hits
Yeah.
Nurse is killer hard to learn, and making her a casual killer, would be a slap on a face for everyone who decided to learn to play her.
I know that some people used to her cery quickly, but my time od learning her was a nighmare (literally), and if she will become casual killer i will be totally pissed, and in rage, because this would means that all my effort, dedication, frustration, broken morale and lost confidence because of not being able to get a single hit for entire trial would be just waste.
So no. I will never accept Nurse being regular M1 killer with ability to teleport through walls sometimes.
Im posting ideas that would make her what she is, but more balanced towards survivors, especially those who dont know how to deal with her yet.
I'm all in towards ideas to make her harder but more satisfying. And as i said - I AM a person who use her white nit comb and i dont see drawbacks of this addon, only unskilled nurses see difference. She is suppoused to be hard to learn and punishing for every mistake, and this should stary as it is to not make her too basic. She is good as she is, but some additional punishes towards not skilled nurses would make her not as "op".
Turning her white nit comb into a native aspect might work against average survivors, but absolutely not against experts.
But she is able to use those even if M2 would become special attacks.
1, when people want to mindgame nurse (so everyone), one of the things they can try to do is run at you in hopes you blink far away from them. They can get close enough for you to lounge at them (because launge is way quicker even on nurse)
2, matchbox
3, spasmodic breath
4, bloodlust
So you have 4 possibilities to use M1 perks. Does that make it good idea? No. Does that make good idea to take STBFL on huntress? Or starstruck on freddy? Well then what is your argument then?
1. They run into you when you charge the blink so you are in a blink woulnd that mean you either blink away from them or when you short blink you are still in blink mode wich means it would be m2 hit.
2&3 being addon depend fells not good and both addons are crap plus one of them is iri
4. When you blink you reset bl so you would need to chase for 35 seconds without blinking. How should that work when the survivor just out runs you wich would even break chase and with that bl build up when they are fare enough away
1, not necessarily
4, true
The point is, nurse can get M1 without blinks, so it is possible to use those perks. Your argument was every killer should be able to use every perk. They are. Nurse can use them. It's just as bad as sloppy butcher on plague or plaything on mirror meyers and many perks like this
But she can't use them in a good way that's feels good to play. Sure sloppy on plague doesn't work that's true mirror Myers is just one of his playstyles.
While just making her blink m2 is probably the fastest and easiest way to change her I don't think it is a good way and I don't even think people would stop complaining or dc against her cause it's nurse at her core that makes her frustrating for many survivor
Normal nurse is frustrating. Starstruck range/recharge nurse is go under the hook kind of feeling
Yes so we should focus on real changes to nurse that make her overall less frustrating. A real rework would be good but only if they keep the spirit of the killer and that is blinking through everything to get a hit. I am very fond of the idea to go the matchbox way and make her faster while giving her only one blink with maybe less lunge range so you can have normal chase with her with and when she sees the opportunity to cut your way or you missplayed a mind game she blinks but need to hit a relatively close range to the survivor so the survivor can still try to eveade it or she can missplay it
"1, when people want to mindgame nurse (so everyone), one of the things they can try to do is run at you in hopes you blink far away from them. They can get close enough for you to lounge at them (because launge is way quicker even on nurse)"
If a survivor turns around in the exact split second after the nurse disappears on her first blink; especially if she is far away; she will not be able to hit him in 1 shot.
Only survivors who turn around too soon will allow the nurse to correct her blink distance before launching the blink.
"2, matchbox
3, spasmodic breath"
These addons have a purpose to troll and play slapstick, they are not really designed for efficiency, especially against expert survivors.
4, bloodlust
Are we really talking about the BL on the one killer who literally can't get anything out of it?
"The point is, nurse can get M1 without blinks, so it is possible to use those perks."
Technically, of course the nurse can sometimes hit a survivor after a single blink.
Technically, of course the nurse can sometimes hit a survivor just by floating towards them (if the survivor makes a turn too tight, for example).
But that's just theory. In practice, it will only work on very novice survivors who make mistakes, run straight, and don't know the maps or loops.
In fact, when you see how easy it is to loop a killer moving at 4.4, and knowing that the matchbox generates a movement at 4.2, it is easy to imagine that a killer in 4.2 represents no danger in a "walker" type chase.
So ok, he could teleport, but it would only be for 1 and only 1 blink.
In short, he would be too slow to be able to hunt properly on foot and to patrol efficiently on foot, but he would not have any more value with his tp, because he would have to do perfect-blink all the time.
And we know very well that the nurse needs 2 blinks, because the first one is in most cases used to get closer to his target.
Then how about making the second Blink a Special Attack?
Nurse is really hard to get right (right now) it may take some trial and error... I hope that people can realize that and give it time
They also need to think of Console players when it comes to balancing... nothing for nothing but I wouldn't have played Nurse if I knew that eventually she would become unplayable for us (I play on Xbox)
Well then we test other speeds until we hit the sweet spot where it feels good to play but isn't to oppressive
Too oppressive for whom?
For experienced players who play as an organized, competent team and don't lose a single second?
Or for players who think that lowering a pallet in front of a nurse is a Deus Ex Machina, those who don't know how to turn around at the right moment, those who don't know that the turn around exists, those who run towards the nurse when she loads her blink thinking that she is screwed, while forgetting that she can blink down to make a 0. 1m and thus take the survivor by surprise, those who continue to fast vault even though the nurse has made it clear that she is using I'm all ears, those who continue to repair without letting go of the generator even though they have clearly seen that the nurse is using Pain Res, those who try to bodyblock when they are unhooked (and therefore waste time doing that) while the nurse only has to quietly get behind them to reach the player who unhooked them, those who think that jumping from a window in Haddonfield allows them to escape from the nurse, those who wait glued to a pallet thinking that the nurse will blink on the other side, and get grabbed when in fact, the nurse fakes her blink ?
The point of all these examples is that although the nurse is very powerful, she can also rely on a lot of mistakes that the survivors will make, and that the point of view of someone who thinks that the nurse is powerful would be much more interesting to take into account if we could see how the player in question plays against the nurse.
Agreed on all points. The thing that I reacted to is @Starseed saying every killer should be able to at least in theory use all the perks AND saying that nurse would NOT be able to do that. I just showed him (and you), that this is not case and there are 4 (unprobable) cases, where nurse can actually get M1 hit even if blink attack was considered special attack. I also added, that making some perks real bad for said killer is also nothing special AND I have several examples of said anti-synergy.
The whole point is, that the argument "it will be hard to use M1 perks" is just not valid. Making nurse blinks special attack is the very minimum that should be done to her.
In fact, as long as the nurse can still use Sloppy Butcher, Jolt, K.O. etc., I'm fine with it 🤣
His?
yeah that's what really irritates me the most about these weird nerf to ground kind of balance posts like literally how am I supposed to keep playing as Nurse if her worst addon is there on top of the console issues I face all the time like I get ppl don't want me to play Nurse, but really..
It seems to be what BHVR is capable of though
Hillbilly comes to mind
Ruin also comes to mind
Sorry, i use a translator sometimes, and it put some weird translations xD