Gandor
Gandor
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For same reason delete blight and nurse?
This is not a good argument.
@jesterkind said:
Lightborn definitely isn't healthy and definitely needs changes- it's the same reasoning as Distortion, you can't have something be completely passive and also hard shut down an entire archetype of tools on the opponent's side, it just isn't reasonable.
I also have this suspicion that Lightborn can sort of stunt a player's skill development, because whenever someone brings up Lightborn being kinda messed up, there's often responses that seem to imply you need Lightborn to counter flashlight squads, which obviously isn't true.
Putting that aside, though, I don't think you need to go too overboard with Lightborn changes. I've maintained for a while that what Lightborn should do is still let the blind go through mechanically, just not affect the killer's screen (+ obviously still give the aura afterwards), so that it allows blind-related perks on both sides to still activate while still providing its own benefit and still helping out people who have accessibility issues with the blind visuals.
If we really want Lightborn to still protect against flashlight saves on top of that, then that part should be limited, like with a token system or something along those lines. Some thought and skill should go into outplaying flashlight saves no matter what perks you bring against them, after all.Based
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@SoGo said:
I agree. It needs a full rework imo. We have a perk that puts your TR on a gen: Unforseen. No need for a second one.
So here is my idea:
Hex: Overture of Doom
A hex that feeds on the anxiety of survivors, inciting endless paranoia.
Two random Dull Totems become Hex Totems at the start of the trial.
While this perk is active, the survivors always hear a fake distant Terror Radius while in a 20/30/40 meter range of a Totem.
Once a survivor cleanses one of the Totems:
• They will always hear your own distant Terror Radius.
• They are considered to be in your Terror Radius at all times.All effects deativate when the second Totem is cleansed.
This sounds nice and I like this idea more, but it risks not having enough totems.
Combine this perk with haunted and 2 more hex totems and you need 6 totems. The perk would maybe need to spawn extra totem (a nice feature even if you don't use any more hex totems + good synergy with pentimento) instead of changing one to hex.
Yet I think the perk is still incomplete - the perk is a little obvious while there's basically no threat to not cleansing it. Maybe it could override distant TR even if killer is really close? Making it fake oblivious
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Are you sure it wasn't mad grit? Are you sure you were not in the middle of a killer's action/animation (like he has already started hook animation)?
I haven't played this game for 2-3 years, but I don't remember ever encountering said bug and when I played the game, I did so extensively.
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I think most fair solution is giving option (or mandate) fast bleedout.
More spicy (but a little unfair towards killers) solution would be to give basekit unlimited unbreakable for specifically the case of 2 survivors living but only 1 survivor is downed. This would basically force killer to pick up if he does not know the location of last survivor OR creates a real risk/decision if it makes sense to even try to chase last survivor instead of sacrificing the previous one.
But as a note - this spicy solution can actually be more boring if you know the game is guaranteed killers win anyway (meaning at least 2 generators are not completed). In this case survivors need so much more time to threaten exit gate, that it does not matter if they can pick themselves up or not (which is a problem that does not exist in bleedout case and I'd support ability to abandon/bleedout even more under this condition).
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@tubalcane said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4037489#Comment_4037489
Camping is completely counterable. Its called doing gens. You do gens while the killer stupidly sticks around where nothing is happening. 3k is a win.
thats current situation. Not the case proposed. If this thread gets ignored, you are right. If it doesn't, well. 2018 dbd is back… except survivors back then had also unfair things running for them (like much better bnp, shorter gen times, easier to 5-gen chase if you knew how, etc)
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@Darky77 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4037237#Comment_4037237
That is absolutely NOT a fair comparison at all. A more accurate comparison would be a Killer face camping. Sure, there can be some good reasons for them to hang out near the hook, especially in endgame, and they can be toxic about it by spamming attacks or be chill and quiet about it. It doesn't really do much but extend an already for-gone conclusion to a match, other than very niche situations.
But notice how there's built-in gameplay features to prevent the Killer equivalent and nothing to penalize survivors? Would it really be so bad to punish survivors for sitting in the gates, especially if all of them are there and there's absolutely NO reason to not just leave? Does it really affect anything outside of ending an already concluded match a little sooner?re-read what I wrote please. I agree with punishing survivors if all they want to do is rub it in.
But it must be clear case - all survivors staying in gate seeing each other and not moving there for at least a few seconds (because there's no gameplay reason to not leave in this case). On the other hand, do not punish legitimate altruistic plays.
In the same vein - I think killer absolutely should facecamp in endgame. There are no other objectives for him available. So it's not toxic and it's the only reasonable gameplay available. That's also why a lot of perks (e.g. DS) or antifacecamp mechanics don't work at endgame. So in valid cases it's ok to facecamp/stay in gate area. In unreasonable cases, it should be punished
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This suggestion would allow a lot of perks to be meaningfully buffed too.
If devs ever did this change, they should revert Awakened Awareness to 2s aura linger like on original PTB release and generally they could go thru a lot of weaker aura reading perks and buff their duration/add linger time (hangman's trick, Territorial Imperative, etc).
Like there are many killers that highly benefit from aura reading perks that can be used in chase (e.g. Blight). But there was just 1 gatekeeper that blocked making these perks generally good on every killer - and nurse would stop doing that if this came true
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@Anti051 said:
Well…even if you get good at the weaker killers, they are positively crippled by the inevitable flood of endurance you'll encounter no matter what perks you use, so the only real huge tip is to base all your gameplay off a foundation that can easily recover the momentum lost from endurance effects by playing the stronger killers.
A few lighter tips: Lethal pursuer allows you to start a chase immediately and floods of rage is great for finding people throughout the match. Grim embrace/pop goes the weasel or grim embrace/pain resonance can be nice for getting more of a chance to get some real damage done before the gates are powered.
However, I'd advise you to brace for things to only get worse for the killer experience as that's what the pattern has been since 2018. There's always something looming on the horizon that aims to further limit what the killer can do based on what novice/intermediate survivor players find "fun."
Wait what? DBD in 2018 was super survivor sided compared to today. Did you forget all the maps? Did you forget all the timings for every killer's action? 2018 was long before 6.1 update? It was time when true infinites were still part of the game. Basically all the maps were about 2x as large on average. Haddonfield was clearly survivor sided compared to today.
With a few small exceptions like legion release - how can you say the experience got worse for killers? Majority of updates since 2018 buffed killers resulting in kill rate very clearly above 50% as compared to 2018 stats
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@SoGo said:
So... we should remove the mechanic.... the game was built on... for what reason exactly?
There are AFK crows in place for this exact thing. Granted, they are very unhelpful, but still.
WDYM unhelpful? They are clearly visible AND if you get crows level 3, killer gets direct notification. What's wrong with this system?
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@AssortedSorting said:
I consider the end-game Hook (when the EGC has started) to be the period of the "Killer Hatch". The survivors have nearly reached their goal, and this last hook is a bit of a gimmie in that you can start to focus on it for a last ditch effort to secure a(nother) kill. Given that a 2K can considered a draw, I would say that it tracks (but does not feel symmetrical) that this is possible even then given that if the 3K threshold is reached, now the Survivor has hatch.
TBH I'm completely surprised that the Endurance effect off-hook is still present during the EGC.
Use that tool in conjunction with body-blocking (and other tools such as blinding with flashlights to prevent the killer from seeing what angle/who is unhooking, force them to look away) if you are dead-set on trying to get as many out alive instead of cutting losses.
From old DBD I can say that some BT time is full on required. There would be close to 99% chance for killer to confirm kill (the only chance would be killer screwing up timing = hitting during unhook, or survivors somehow sabotaging hook/flashlight saving).
The thing is, that killer can stand directly on hook and not do anything - just wait until some survivor comes to unhook (ignoring unhooker) and unhooks said survivor. As survivors are locked in place during/moments after unhook, it's basically impossible to dodge killer's M1. There's no chance for survivors to bodyblock, because they can't push out killer or clip into unhooked survivor. The killer would get guaranteed down.
Removing endurance in endgame is pure downgrade - it would once again necessitate bringing perk just for this, or it would force survivors to leave last person every time - because save would be impossible.
Also current endurance duration feels fair - if killer hooked survivor next to exit gate, then it's repeated killer's screwup and survivors should have an easier escape. Same way as when killer gets 4 slugs - survivor get option to abandon match, but not ability to pick themselves up for same reason. When he slugged 4, he won. Survivors should not get another chance. By same line of thinking - if 3-4 survivors got to endgame and forced killer to hook next to prepared gate - then they just won and killer should not get another easy chance to just convert to kill for free
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At end game, killer's only objective is to kill said survivor. There's literally nothing else said killer can do.
What would you want the killer to actually do? Camping the gate? For this to make sense, gates would need to be considerably nerfed for survivor - which creates additional problem for last standing survivor (he would loose any chance of escaping via gate which creates endless hiding problem and lower quality of games).
If you want killer to chase survivors - you would need to hyper-buff his chase power during endgame, which would create additional problem for killers taking endgame builds (they would be way too OP - given you need to buff killer's endgame enough to give him chance to actually down healthy survivor before he can make it to fully prepared gate).
Overall giving killer any other option to camping sounds like a clear downgrade in game quality in any meaningful aspect I can think of. But maybe you can think of something reasonable for both sides, that would be more interesting then camping last hooked survivor?
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@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4038331#Comment_4038331
I think it would make sense to scratch off say 1 warning per year
Would make more sense for this to be based on number of comments, no?
like 500 or something like thatI think that's sound alternative to time passed. More posts = more chances to screw up (and accelerate your actual ban). Keeping in mind that spamming is also an offense (or at least it should be), this IMO would work just as well.
On the other hand, time-based de-escalation would be fine too in my opinion.
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I would stress the fact, that old accounts (AKA people that likely knows the game the best) are at real disadvantage.
I think it would make sense to scratch off say 1 warning per year. Some infractions are not intentional - I myself had one where I wrote thing that absolutely could be interpreted as an insult (for which I got deserved warning), but that wasn't my intention in any way. There just was an ambiguity in understanding the meaning behind the message.
The same thing could be said about last @PetTheDoggo's post, where "I feel bad for you" could be interpreted in an offensive way. Do I think it warrants banning him? Absolutely not. But mistakes do happen from time to time - we are human after all. And if it's rare enough, then it should probably not warrant a permanent ban.
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Welcome back to prehistoric versions of DBD. Where camping was the easiest and 100% uncounterable strategy. Where borrow time was mandatory for every survivor and if anyone did not bring it, he was trolling. Where killers had to get 1 chase for 3K guaranteed should survivors not take the mandatory perk - by just staying in a single spot not really playing the game.
Basekit BT is a direct response of abuse. Similar to say nerf to the ground of boil over (compared to busted version we had where hooking was impossible in number of maps)
But sure. If those were the good times, then let's bring other busted things from those same times. Now DS has just 2 condition to activate - killer picking survivor up and survivor hitting skillcheck. If he hits it, killer gets stunned for 5s. No hook condition, no repeat condition. Fair right? Like no basekit BT times…
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Yes. That would solve all the cases and it makes perfect sense. I see no real downsides
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Right. Because playing altruistic is concept totally foreign to you @Zuiphrode.
I had countless games where I actually healed in gate are, or deliberately let myself be downed inside the gate. In all cases the idea was to help my other survivor teammate - if I get healed, I can go and take hit for him. If killer hits me in gate, I am buying time for the other survivor to open the 2nd gate/actually get to that second gate.
The one thing I don't get is. How is it even possible you could not imagine these scenarios?
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If all survivors are at one gate (they see each other) and stay there for 5+s after last one was there (or 15+s if anybody is downed), then I agree.
Otherwise there can be very legitimate reason for survivors to stay in the gate and it's not to "watch me leave".
Auto-penalty of survivor for staying in gate area would be the same (with same reasoning) as if you punish killer for walking over survivor without picking him up.
It very well can be BM. But it can also so happen, that killer needs to look around for other survivors (say trying to flashlight save), trying to actually catch another survivor that is looping the exact same structure where previous survivor fell, or other legitimate reasons…
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@random1543 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/461632/new-game-mechanic
I like it as a concept but I think if something like this where to be added needs to be to address concerns of it being abusable
- the safe area would have to be in a inconvenient place such as basement (too avoid them being to easy to cheese and access)
- one safehouse/room at max as well as entrance / exit so the killer can just wait for you to come out if they really want the tunnel out (Too avoid survivors abusing / leaving another way)
- Limit too a Survivor that is being tunneled out or last hooked if too hard to define, if a killer hooks someone else the entity will "close" the safe room for the pervious survivor and make you leave (too avoid everyone just going in there all the time and spending all game in there as well as not being abused by non tunnels)
- Disabled when gens are completed / one survivor is left (to avoid end game abuse)I also agree it would be good idea, but I think it would need to be more limited to what you propose. The things that come to my mind:
1, it needs to be disabled already if there are 2 survivors left - otherwise 1 survivor gets found while the other one "hides forever" (making the game literally impossible for previous survivor and arguably boring for killer)
2, Time limit how long can the survivor stay there. If someone stays there for ages, it's not fair. The time should be long enough to discourage killer to wait it out in "normal game", but not long enough to "rat out the game". Something like hook-stage time would IMO work.
3, while it should be as risky/inconvenient as basement, it would need to be something new. The basement already serves the purpose for killer to be strong spot for hooking survivor. A safehouse like this would ruin that aspect and severely nerf killers this way (especially because of shack being just above it usually).
4, 1 spot per map is already a lot. A killer should not have all chases ended by survivor going to safe house
Otherwise it sounds like a good and strong anti-tunnel mechanics - if you are being tunneled out, just go to safe spot.
An additional thing - there would need to be some compensation for killers, because this would clearly be a substantial buff for survivors not only if they are being tunneled out (a possibility to end a chase without down)
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@tes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035901#Comment_4035901
I’m just curious - have you ever seen survivor teams doing streaks? Like same Invictus? Have you ever heard what they themselves claiming and doing? Have u seen players actually doing streaks, what they do, what they think? Usually it is unserious mess with rare gem matches that later going for channels…Most of players who do this streaks belongs to comp and doing it entirely for content, not even hiding it.
Or you just seen someone having high number and never actually was searching about such content? Invictus literally lost over 100+ wins because one member in team started to meme for Legion and traded every pallet for iri button for laugh…
“Short streak”, “long streak” - they both contain bs numbers and extremes you would see in game. Killers can more consistently win, survs can more consistently speed up match tempo and also escaping. My own games when I get good MMR lasted 6-8 minutes when killer tried the best… You can’t cherry pick something specific and only cry about this. You have to accept the fact that both roles have ridiculous potential.
Survivors on EU maybe want to win, but they play extremely selfish or refuse to be acknowledged about meta. BUT, even with such play…
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/EOYGEA35M368/img-3282.jpeg
Even on EU servers you can play 100 games with one perk and solo q, escaping around 80 times. Where only 16 was related to hatch. So nuh… purely matter of perspective. If you wish to choose playing in the most ineffective and casual play - you wouldn’t win a lot as surv. And this, as some chemical reaction, will gift casual matches for killer. That’s the point of surviving. You can’t return to past time, where one button and BNP complete whole gen or you can keep killer hostage hiding in bush. As much as killer can’t bodyblock unhook prompt and camp 3gen anymore.
As much this game is about RNG factor, as much every win streak possible is a definition of luck. In other games streaks have much stricter regulations. In DBD comp scene is not supervised properly and became absurd play of handicapping each other. People do it for fun, money, and bragging
Sure. 99+% on killer, 80% on survivor. Sounds fair…. I think there's no point in continuing this debate at this point.
@CompetitifDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035906#Comment_4035906
I've already told you those stats are not reliable or realistic.
Right. Survivors need to just git good. But killer is hard. No metric except competitive and some streamers says so (there are ofc other streamers saying exact opposite things), but still. Killer is harder and survivor just git good. And if there's OFICIAL stats proving me wrong, than that's "unreliable". But anecdotal experience or "streamer said" is obviously clear proof everyone should listen to. You are waay worse then @tes above…
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@CompetitifDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035768#Comment_4035768
I own and have owned all characters in the game, even when I was using the BP build. I know that I'm good enough to still win without relying on perks, which is why I ran these in the first place to reward myself more for winning with no perks anyway.
Idk why ur talking abt Blight. No ones talking abt Blight. And I'm going to keep telling you the game is survivor sided because it is. You're acting like I'm the only veteran or high hour player who says this. Pretty much every content creator knows that the game is survivor sided, and most of them aren't even good at the game themselves.
If you really think the game's killer sided, prove it. Because all you've done is deny my evidence without any backing.
2k win streak on blight. 500 winstreak on nurse no perks. 60% average kill rate and by official stats there is no combination or mmr where killers as whole have below 50% kill rate. The game is killersided everywhere but in competitive where there are special rules and only 4man swf squads (a thing almost nonexistent in soloQ).
the game is without an argument killer sided.
the fact you are watching truetallent and similar misguided streamers does not change anything. And you should not base your argument by your favorite streamers - that's just catering to more biased population. Use valid stats/facts instead.
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maybe point 3 sounds ok. Still, I would rather have something that would help legion being viable in high mmr and this is not it
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Short streak means nothing. Long streaks gives statistical significance. Are you trying to say nobody ever in eu wants to win on survivor? That nobody ever takes meta stuff and plays sweaty? Or that the percentage of those players is in realm of 1 in 2000 games?
if the streak number gets too ridiculous, it actually indicates things and not just and outlier or tendency.
and once more - this thread is about no mither. If we presume you are perfectly correct that survivors ruin the game by picking non-meta perks. Then why is no mither allowed to be in the game? To spread the frustration more? Is that the worthy goal we should aim for?
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But there's 1 thing I agree with. Legion looks bad right now. He actually could use buff. My idea would be to give him something skill based, because the champion is already very linear and easy to play (hence you can't make him competitive in high elo, because low elo would get outright destroyed).
I can't think of something good. But the most sloppy way to fix him IMO would be to give him portals like something demogorgon or xenomorph has (but not like Freddy - it should be "our of combat movement") to help him get around in map.
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@Elan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035876#Comment_4035876
The counterplay would be exact same, spread out and don't let him 5th hit, bodyblock etc.
I did not notice they created new maps that are 10x as large as mother's dwelling. This suggestion basically guarantees you are going down. And not like you are eventually going down. It's like - nope to counterplay.
This would be balanced if gens took like 40s to complete base speed. But what's the game about then?
Also to address your point directly - even your counterplay would just not work. With that speed and those abilities, Legion would hit you in power, sprint in front of you and turn off the power for free 2nd hit (so like wraith, but better because of fast window jumping and pallet destroying). You can't make it to anything else in the meantime provided it's not a strong window. If it's pallet, then he can just destroy it with his new power.
This would be balance nightmare overall. Like technically this could work, but legion's power would need to have drastically reduced duration (say 5s) and drastically prolonged turn-off power cooldown (like 3+s). That would make him incredibly clunky and unsatisfying to play.
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What would be the counterplay?
This is like asking - would it be broken if survivors got 5m/s base movement speed?
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@tes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035742#Comment_4035742
Streaks are meaningless. They are only about how lucky in a row you can get in the game. Momo wouldn’t have same streak if suddenly ending up on Asian servers for example, as much as Willie ending up in SA for instance.
IMHO, what’s the point of streaks, when the majority of players refuse to pick meta that always was a solution of tunneling, slowdown or slug being unbalanced? You aren’t playing with actual potential or balance this game has, while yourself on streaks consciously bringing meta or very sophisticated playstyle. And if you see how such people losing this streaks, it’s happening by the silliest reasons possible, like hit not being validated or RNG being too inconvenient. Invictus lost to damn Legion passing through Nurse, Ghoul and Blight waves.
Hens literally played survivor solo q recently and build up 75% escape TEAM rate without any comms. And I’m pretty sure many people would use “him being lucky during this 50 games” argument, at the same time hysterically pointing on some killer streak. Where the truth both kinda lucky.This game is meta and macro sided. And if one survivor in team doesn’t understand the value of meta, you are doomed to lose in specific circumstances. Especially when killer against you embrace this meta play. And to fix this you must nerf killers to oblivion to make such play forgetful. You can’t balance game around casual survivors players because game will return to it’s ridiculous release state. And well… survivors are survivors. Name of the game literally hinting you likely gonna lose playing this role, other question how make it feel actually dependent on you and not random to bring feelings of unfairness.
If you wish to balance game around people loving to run meme builds and barely progressing, you would more likely still gonna get op killers and miserable solo. Because currently there are no reason for average survivor learn how to loop or improve in macro, while killers get cheesy rates thanks to that and also barely improving.
And ofc it’s gonna be easier to blame others in your fails. Yeah sure, it’s always gen rush and tunnelling being so unfair and not u refusing pick proper perks,
and game having meaningful mmr. It’s always your killrate and escape rates being a definition of average player. It’s always me trying my best when some L just cheese. Sure. Yeah. But when other claim same? Oh no, here the problem…Survivors indeed harder role by winning. But they have extreme compensations in face of sfwing or abundance of second chances. You can’t give them simple games without completely removing such compensations. And BHVR will never try to ruin sfw advantage.
Winning 10x in a row is luck. Winning 1948x in a row is no luck. It's a VERY CLEAR pattern. In and 1948 you are guaranteed to also get tryhards, comp players, 4man squads and all that. It's too high number to dismiss like you did. That's basic mathematical statistics.
Even Hen's 50wins in a row clearly state that very good players have odds stacked for them. But you can't compare those to 1948. That's 2 orders of magnitute different. It means that if Hen's group needs roughly 90% win rate + luck, Momo would need 99,9% win rate and same amount of luck. A huuuuuge difference. One is winning vast majority of matches while other is almost guaranteed to win.
And for:
survivors are survivors. Name of the game literally hinting you likely gonna lose playing this role
That's exactly what I am saying. The game is already stacked against survivors. Yet there are people who see it in a different light. And use their own anecdotal experience as "proof".
As for:
This game is meta and macro sided. And if one survivor in team doesn’t understand the value of meta, you are doomed to lose in specific circumstances
is precisely why I wrote no mither should not be in open rotation of perks anyone should be able to take, but those that are already likely to win (4man squads). The perk basically ruins the game for everyone else in the team.
It’s
alwaysyour killrate and escape rates being a definition of average player. It’salwaysme trying my best when some L just cheese. Sure. Yeah. But when other claim same? Oh no, here the problem…Not really. This is why I always name official stats or other things that can be verified. TBH I can't even use personal stats, because I got so fed up with how much "killer fantasy role", that I stopped playing it about 2 years ago. The thing is, I loved the game so much back when I started and it was much more fair, that I still come to forum from time to time.
Survivors indeed harder role by winning
Thanks for acknowledgement - that's what I was saying and yet "survivor is the easier role" as can be seen above…
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@CompetitifDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035761#Comment_4035761
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/UFHCFJZJMRIT/image.png
This might clear things up. Though I don't do this anymore, since these perks don't give me any extra bp. regardless though, the game is not killer sided, most players are just bad. Why can't you accept that?
Cool. You are showing beginner's stats (clearly all the common perks when nobody has anything remotely better).
Now are you disputing 2k wins in a row on blight? Or any other message I posted here before? Or are you still going to cherry-pick your narrative and deliberately ignore everything else?
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@CompetitifDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035742#Comment_4035742
No, it proves that if you're actually good, you escape at the rate you actually should, rather than way less as reflected by the inaccurate collective killrates the devs post.
Asking to play the game only if you can find 3 friends willing to play together with you daily is not realistic expectation.
Also being any competitive name and not stomping ALL pubs means you are REALLY bad killer. Or you deliberately handicap yourself. As stated before. A lot of killers get kill streak in pubs. At this point having at least 100 kill streak on a killer is nothing special for basically any competitive player playing outside of "me and my friends" league. Yet the game is "survivor sided". Well 100% not in pubs it isn't
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You just posted your personal stats and call it "gospel" (proof). The thing is by definition anecdotal. The only thing it proves is, that you are better survivor then killer.
But I have actual stats for you. Best killer fell short of 2000 kill streak on blight. Best killer on freaking ONRIO got to I think 200 if I remember right. Best soloQ survivor? After years of trying. He's somewhere around 42 escapes in a row (and quite a number of those games were killer's win AND it included heavy "rat" playing).
The truth is, the game is killer sided by default so long, as players on both sides don't change that fact. Sure if you pick nurse in beginner MMR or say legion in competitive, the game is survivor sided. Sure if you take 4man SWF that scrims together daily with busted build vs trapper, the game is survivor sided. But if you take random median game, it's absolutely killer sided - because "killer fantasy" is more then survivor's fair chance to escape according to devs
One more thing. Competitive play and pubs are so different, that they can be a different game altogether… I never saw competitive where 4man SWF could not communicate and never played a game together. VERY DIFFERENT to actual pub
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@CompetitifDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035219#Comment_4035219
Rapid brutality is actually a pretty good perk. No mither is too, if you run things in unison, otherwise you're just nerfing yourself. The entire purpose of No Mither according to the Devs is to have a survivor hard mode for yourself. Survivor being as easy as it is already, No Mither can have almost no effect on the outcome of a match if players are just competent about winning.
Survivor is so easy, that 60% kill rate and 2000 kill streaks with 100 on low-tier killers…
No mither is not fair to survivors provided, that it's not 4man SWF that scrims together daily for number of hours. So as I said before… No mither should not be allowed in soloQ. Or duoQ. Or chaos shuffle. It just robs survivors of already low chance to actually win.
As for rapid brutality - I agree that for most killers, it's outright nerf. But it can be beneficial and you can make it work. Comparatively you can't make no mither work if you are not in a group that creates build around it (like say full sabo squad).
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@CompetitifDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035091#Comment_4035091
Not true. Survivors being injured all match is not a problem if they can just crank and spam predrop pallets. You'll never catch them, and if you do, you're likely getting 1 kill at best since every save would just be either a 1 for 1 or just not at all since Oni can proxy camp.
This MAYBE applies to plague, ghoul or legion AND provided killer decides to be extra nice and does not (proxy) camp. Realistically? One hit means that survivor is dead, because you just can't rescue him ever. Especially if you take any killer, who's primary power is not getting 1st hit for free.
Realistically, no mither should not be part of the game (maybe outside custom matches or 4man swf). By taking the perk (or getting it in chaos shuffle), you actively ruin game for 3 other survivors (and yourself in chaos shuffle) by being easy target to tunnel out by killer.
The perk's downside it waaay too big and consistent for the super rare benefit of killer not being able to slug you. Maybe if killer did not see broken status effect, then it would come closer to "almost as good as not taking any perk", but in current state the perk is equivalent of killer getting his ability removed but getting 5% movement speed boost. Worse then garbage
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generally good ideas 👍
there are just 2 points i would like to address. Corrupt idea sounds fine and fair for majority of killers, but it sounds unacceptable vs blight (and nurse to lesser degree) with lethal and corrupt perk - i don't think i need to explain more…
second point for your antislug - a lot of your suggestions solve the case when last survivor is on the ground, but IMO this is solved w basekit mori already (we can ignore other effects of this, but one positive thing is that the game ends quickly when downed as last person). But the excessive slugging is mostly problematic for when there are last 2 survivors. If one goes down and the other one hides, you get stalemate for up to 4 minutes provided killer does not extend this time. IMO these effects should kick in for last 2 survivors, or give option for one survivor to outright die after some time given to killer for fair chase potential (idk. 45s with your 6s of killer instinct?).
Anyway In most cases killer already won with last 2 survivors (basically guaranteed for 2+ gens left), so IDC how to solve it from balance pow, but make the game interesting or cut it short.
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4030979#Comment_4030979
My thoughts exactly, but I cant help but think the game would be better if Survivors didnt have the option to use it offensively against the Killer. As I explain: To discourage bad plays.
I get what you mean. But on the other hand, (proxy) camping killers.
If you disable this, then camping becomes that much stronger, because you are guaranteed at least 1 down every time (with exception to 2+man save, which is also very punishing thing for efficiency). So this would require to raise again time survivors can stay on hook - and I don't think that 80-90s would be healthy for the game
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4028139#Comment_4028139
I do apologise man...
I've read 3 times and I just haven't understood... if you're spreading hooks, then you are more likely to run foul of Deli eliminating your pressure... not less.
Less chance of Deli in end game sure if you can hook all Survivors once... assuming you can find/catch them all, but the point is if you're tunneling players out, you're going for pressure by reducing the player count, as opposed to the goal of not tunneling, which is to gain pressure by occupying as many Survivors at once as possible.
In our hypotheticals, the way Deli works, it directly compromises our early to mid game non-tunnel strategy and can even still bite us in end game as well if we can't find certain players... whereas our tunneling strategy doesn't fall foul of Deli unless we make it to end game, because we maintain our full tunnel pressure through the early to mid game...
So I believe that's why we're classing Deli as unhealthy, it directly compromises the pressure non-tunnel strategy in all parts of the game, whereas it only compromises the tunneling if we didn't get enough tunnel pressure early on. If we're gambling on outcomes, tunneling is better vs. the risk of Deli compared to not tunneling.
I've read 3 times and I just haven't understood... if you're spreading hooks, then you are more likely to run foul of Deli eliminating your pressure... not less.
It is less. Because you are giving less opportunity to ARM deli, before you as a deli user gets hooked.
Are you trying to say that having 6 hooks (and so 6x someone unhooked ⇒ 4 opportunities as you can't unhook dead survivor) happen before killer starts to chase you gives you worse chase to arm deli, then having just 2 chances (given in both cases, that you are 3rd survivor killer starts to focus)?
The other thing is impact - early-to-mid game impact of deli is higher. But that's not CHANCE it actually happens at all.
In our hypotheticals, the way Deli works, it directly compromises our early to mid game non-tunnel strategy and can even still bite us in end game as well if we can't find certain players
That happens ONLY IF survivor was able to unhook safely. A very strong if especially in soloQ where you can't communicate, that other survivors should back off and give you the unhook (which results in you having to "camp" (AKA waste time) freshly hooked survivor so you unhook before your other teammate, while hoping that killer does not notice you AND while hoping some other survivor does not farm hooked person in front of killer).
But once those strong IFs do happen, then I fully agree with you. However in most games (which are made of soloQ or duos) the condition for deli to work is very demanding. Which is the reason why the perk has such a huge payoff
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4027663#Comment_4027663
You have to lead the killer away from the generator being worked on and the exit gates. Its been a crazy-close game, everyone is near death.
So because you haven't been hooked yet you make the only smart play which is to bait the killer into a chase where you will go down across the map but buy your team time to do the last gen and escape.
Taking the OPs scenario, how exactly is this statement true if the killer is tunneling?
The counter point being made is that if the killer spreads hooks, going after unhookers instead of the unhooked, their pressure is then immediately undone by the unhooker having Deli...
So how do you prevent losing your pressure to Deli? You ignore potential Deli users and go straight after the person who was unhooked. If you down them before the safe unhook score event you deny the Deli, but even if you don't, youre encouraged to tunnel them out so that even if the unhooker does have Deli, its impact when they unhook themselves on your pressure later on is much less with 3 Survivors compared to 4.
Deli doesn't get anywhere near the value in SoloQ as it does in SWF, but that's the point, if you suspect Deli, the correct play is to tunnel... that's what makes the perk unhealthy.
how exactly is this statement true if the killer is tunneling?
If killer is not tunneling, then everyone has been hooked so there's no deli.
The counter point being made is that if the killer spreads hooks, going after unhookers instead of the unhooked, their pressure is then immediately undone by the unhooker having Deli...
Yes. True. Which realistically virtually always happens before endgame. So that's not OPs case.
So how do you prevent losing your pressure to Deli? You ignore potential Deli users and go straight after the person who was unhooked. If you down them before the safe unhook score event you deny the Deli, but even if you don't, youre encouraged to tunnel them out so that even if the unhooker does have Deli, its impact when they unhook themselves on your pressure later on is much less with 3 Survivors compared to 4.
Once again, you are right.
But I have to stress one fact that comes from this and this case is a lot more prevalent in soloQ for obvious reasons… If you are spreading hooks, you don't give many individual chances for deli user to have successful unhook before going down himself - worst case scenario for killer that spread hooks is 3 chances (that can be mitigated by quick down as you wrote) and 9 chances if killer tunnels.
Meaning by spreading hooks you have very high chance of triggering "deli curse" making the perk useless instead.
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@goldn_arrow said:
For now I have uninstalled the game (I am/was a killer main) until further notice because of changes trying to be implemented. I want to imply that these changes will kill DBD because when you cater to one side that doesn't make the game run (as I mean catering to survivor only) and killer players leave because of it, absolutely NO ONE will be able to play because you will have no killer side to cater to the amount of survivors.
How to prevent this: Make two normal modes (one being beginner friendly) where you implement these changes into then have a normal mode where (intermediate/pro) players have the game run like as is before the 9.3.0 or whatever ptb patch. That way it doesn't effect the players who have played the game for a long time and you get new players in. Then if you have a beginner player that wants to see if they are ready to play in the normal (intermidiate/pro mode) a message pops up saying 'are you sure you want to try this mode? This mode will contain strategies like tunnelling, slugging and camping, are sure you want to proceed?'
This way nothing changes when it comes to the players that have been playing for years and years, and the beginners have a way to get in to the game without being obligated to be matched up with killer players who have more hours and play the game as is. This will be a win on both sides because then it will cater to new players and veteran players that know how to play the game around these strategies.
Funny. I uninstalled the game about 2 years ago (just before chunky came out) for exactly the same reason as survivor main. When I started to play the game, the average escape rate was about 55%. Now target kill rate is 60% and the game clearly shows it even today…
Until that changes (or until hook density does not return to pre-background player era - as sabotaging was one of the big highs for me), I am not reinstalling the game. Also I have north of 2K hours so not a beginner
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@Memesis said:
Deliverance deserves to be gutted skull merchant style. Ridiculously unhealthy perk with a crazy strong effect that only procs if the killer DOES NOT tunnel. It's as bad if not worse than old knock out. It's insane to me that this perk still exists in this original state.
What? Given the situation described by OP, it's the exact opposite. If you tunnel, then you are working for imbalance for hooks (e.g. having 6 hooks with 2 people dead and 2 people that could deli). On the other hand if you spread pressure to maximum degree (meaning more then just not tunnel) and you have say just 4 hooks, then every survivor is still just fine, but none of them can deli in endgame.
Meaning that if anything, the perk punishes tunneling.
The only way you could have been right is if you 100% disregard what OP said and you are talking about deli before endgame, where spreading hooks gives (with lesser chance to clear conditions, but more quickly) opportunity to use the perk.
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@terumisan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4022151#Comment_4022151
yep because the game is supposed to be harder for them since it's a team of 4 vs 1
It's supposed to be harder for the individual survivor, but easier for a team.
Right now survivor is harder in both terms = harder as a team (still 60% kill rate) but also as individual (1v1 vs killer virtually always ends up with killer getting down instead of survivor shaking off killer)
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@unavoidablevoid said:
"we see that you care only about killer side"
It's quite amusing for me to behold that there are DBD players out there who believe that the company is killer-sided.
The majority of the playerbase of DBD are casual survivors and Behavior is head over heels at keeping them around because they are the ones who keep DBD profitable. If you don't believe that the majority of players are survivor mains, go to a streaming website of your choice and count the ratio of surivor streams to killer streams.
Behavior has never been killer-sided, Behavior is money-sided like practically every other company and survivor skins is where the money is at, not killer skins (every bit is welcome but the major dough comes from survivors.)
Sure. That's why the target is 60% kill rate. Not fair 50%. Not to actually be "majority" sided by 40%. But 60%…
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@Choaron said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3961258#Comment_3961258
You see it once per 100 games because it competes with more reliable/safer/easier-to-use items/addons such as Syringe and BNP. Also, the vast majority of casual DBD players never realized how strong Blood Amber was.
i tried it out multiple times and the item never did anything meaningful except when vs m1 killers. Any spirit/blight/nurse can't be bothered if you have blood amber or not. And even if u go vs pig or trapper (where the item shines), it's still really only marginally better then medkit or quite frankly any toolbox (and even beamer is better most of the time).
So once again. The item is really bad. It can feel op if u go vs certain killers, but even in this case it's not much better then the alternative. So overall it would be best if we got something, that actually does something even vs stronger killers compared to item that only works vs killers that already struggle in chase.
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I would so love this. One event that would definitely bring me back to game
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@Stibfa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3967087#Comment_3967087
Best things to do if you know kaneki is gonna try this is double back after his first leap. You need to be VERY quick with your second leap otherwise they make it to the pallet. But just like huntress has tiles that are good for her power this car loop is just a good loop for kaneki. Bodyblocking isnt possible on a lot of loops and knowing which are and which arent blockable is a skill you need to learn. She couldve also faked the pallet greed and vacuum back to stun me.
Sounds reasonable, provided ghoul can't just cancel. But I read he can do that which means he's able to on-react adjust? If he can just react to it it would mean all cards are in ghoul's hands and survivors don't really have anything to do there. Am I wrong (and I mean it as genuine question - I don't know the killer. Never played as or against him)?
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@Stibfa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3967050#Comment_3967050
This is a tripple leap block which is only possibe on very long loops,
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/NDVOTQ05STLB/1000025880.gif
This is a more standard block on short loops where you use the slide to get infront of the survivor and CANCEL, you see the issue with your nerf now? This is exactly my point, you people claim the killer has no skill ceilling yet you can outplay loops like this without ever touching his vault. I almost never use enrage vault simply because i dont need to use it. So again ill repeat my proposed nerfs for ghoul.
1. Revert enrage vault speed to ptb values
2. Grab should only injure you within 8 meters
3. If you REALLY want to nerf his cancel only make the cancel longer or not possible on the first leap only.
I agree this looks to be tough to do. But in this clip. Was there ANYTHING survivor could have done? It looks to me this is one of those things where killer either mess up, or gets hit. Survivor can be a literal bot.
Things like that do not belong to multiplayer games IMO. But correct me if I am wrong and there is something to do against this as survivor (I haven't touched the game in 2 years)
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For it to be fair, u'd need closing hatch to not power gates.
For this reason, I'd suggest killing the last survivor if 3rd one escapes and kill both survivors if killer finds the hatch and not all the gens (or all but last one?) are already done. That way it's about who finds the hatch instead of waiting for inevitable death possibly because MM screwed up (imagine 2 survivors 1hour each with 2 10K hrs survivors vs 300hrs killer that tunnels those novice survivors - the experienced ones are doomed to loose even if they are way better at the game) as is current state.
This way killer has reasonable chance to 4K (about 40% depending on killer and if survivors are not slugged) and one of survivors still has some chance to escape.
Otherwise it looks reasonable to me at first look.
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And this is precisely why I quit the game about 2 years ago. Buffing killers with 60% kill rate in mind (and even this is not enough here in forum for quite a number of people = killer must be power role and survivors are here to suffer) instead of fair 50% on one side, while ruining fun things survivors can do (first it was my fun with sabotages being no longer viable given new hook density - not it's also flashlight saves being way harder with new angles).
I would not mind one of those nerfs or the other. But in my games I need either my competitive self being satisfied (50% kill rate) or my goof around part being satisfied (being able to sabotage save someone even if it means loosing the game).
I got robbed of both. So now my only interaction with the game is occasional visit to this forum/watching some streamers while waiting in queue of different games.
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If you don't take tombstone, you need to be way better then survivors to get at least 3K. If you do bring especially tombstone piece (and whole build around it), you need to be potato compared to every single survivor to not get at least 3K.
Those addons are really unhealthy. I would absolutely not be surprised if they did 20% kill rate differential or more in at least soft cap.
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This is about as old as DBD. Meyers is too weak. But he can't be buffed so long, as both tombstones (especially tombstone piece) exists… But he needs buffs without those addons
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it was so busted, that you might have seen it once per 100 games. Now it's nerfed even more so….
Why is it still in the game? Seems like killers hate it because it's OP and survivors feels it's so OP, that they virtually never take it compared to like… Any other item (maybe with exception to map). These are exactly the things that are win-win if they get fully reworked - survivors are happy because they get something actually interesting to use and killers are happy that they got rid of something "OP".
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@VaporLion said:
but why do u guys prefer having keys useless and the hatch only randomly giving u an escape ?
isnt skill-based better ?
cuz if prefer random - u can also just have the game decide if u win the game by flipping a coin but u wouldnt want that , would u ?Having it random is still more skillful (how you cover the area, did you hear it faintly? Can you triangulate) then having it shown to you (visible spawn and remembering the position is not really "skillful").
So even though current form of hatch doesn't feel ideal, I really feel like your suggestion downgrades the experience even more and incentivize boring slugging very strongly.
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@MadDragon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3959331#Comment_3959331
No, they said body blocking for a hook save. Not to prevent a survivor getting hooked. Unless its just worded poorly that means someone is already on the hook and you're trying to get multiple people near the hooked person against Bubba (which you never want to do).
So killer brings a hatch offering, sits on where it would spawn not allowing survivors to do anything, waits 1 minute (not enough to do multiple gens), and gets 2 automatic free kills? Why would you kill the survivors if hatch is closed and not let them get the gates like normally? There's plenty of times where a teammate or I have gotten an escape (or a 2E) after a really bad game in EGC.
This is also too unfair for the survivors and anyone that isn't aware of the mechanic isn't going to understand why they can't out-hide the killer. The game doesn't need more complicated mechanics to deal with edge cases, its bad enough to learn about the game already lol.
i understood it "badly worded way" otherwise you are basically right.
As for the second point - you are again spot on if all the things align. Given killer brought offering, survivors messed up royally, 2 died with 2+ gens not being completed enough to finish in given time, killer banked on survs not completing gens, then you are right. It would create even more boring (but less probable) scenario.
But I think there would be way how to tweak it to make the game interesting. Because expecting long enough chase for 2-person team to do 2+ gens is really not engaging. At that point I would rather end the match at the spot then be forced to play it out (realistically IMO you have less then 1% chance to do 2 full generators - yet again provided you are not ayrun vs new-ish killer).