Stibfa
Stibfa
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@kit_mason said:
Given they spent time making this killer, they presumably designed her with an inbuilt, intended counterplay strategy for her kit. As the community has failed to find anything close to suggest the intended counterplay actually exists, could we get an explanation from the team as to what we're actually meant to be doing?
The counterplay was already pretty clear in the ptb....then they overtuned her headform lunge so much she can hugtech any loop
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@Milkymalk said:
I played yesterday and only encountered the usual: Huntress, Ghoul, Animatronic, even a Dracula, but not a single Krasue. Why?
I played her and she is fun, he has a moderately complex but not difficult to understand mechanic, and is pretty in the upper tier.
Are people too put off by her visceral appearance, or am I completely misjudging how good or bad she is?
Ive been playing her, but i think People are just waiting for the nerf thats 100% coming soon (deserved)
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@fussy said:
I think majority of players can agree that she is very strong S tier killer. And while I don't mind have more S tier killers, especially with keeping in mind that killers will be forced to do nothing except chase different survivors one by one, I DO mind S tier killers which are super easy to play as.
And I think we can make Krasue harder to play as and more fair to play against without destroying her completely.
1. 1.5s stagger after using Regurgitate
That's the first thing I would like to see. I think it's pretty ridiculous that you have opportunity infect survivor AND hit him just in vault animation. This change also will help with having more opportunity to reach safety after being infected.
2. Intestinal Whip will now ignore obstructions for 0.2 seconds. (was 0.6 seconds)While this change feels very enjoyable, I think it's also the change, which dumbed down killer's skill floor a lot from PTB. So point of this change is help with start of Intestinal Whip (next IW) and don't get stuck on weird map collision, but remove loop hugging. Increased turn rate already did a lot in terms of helping with managing her during the dash. Maybe even revert this change at all.
3. Increased the initial number of Glowing Fungus to 6 (was 4) and maximum number to 10 (was 8).I don't believe it was necessary change at all. She is not Singularity, where you NEED to have counterplay to infections limited, because her infections is more 1v1 tool and less 1v4. She can infect pretty easily and I don't think there were problems with amount of Fungus on PTB at all.
4. Survivors no more have Leeched status after unhook.Maybe not needed change, if survivors will lose collision and other basekit anti-tunnel in nearest future, but right now she is the best tunneler in the game.
5. Decreased time to eat Glowing Fungus interaction to 1,5 seconds. (was 3s) Survivor's moving speed while eating 3,2m/s (was 2,83m/s).
With this change I want to give survivors opportunity to eat Fungus during the chase, because now it's pretty hard. And I truly hated EMPs before nerfs on Singularity, but Krasue is different. Her chase in most cases even stronger, her infections are even easier, she MUST fight for infectious and it should be more punishing, if you didn't land a single hit in 20 seconds in head form.
The only thing I afraid of is picking Fungus during the chase multiple times, like it was with EMPs, so maybe slightly increase time to pick them up?
6. Chicken Head now spawn 4 (was 2) additional Glowing Fungus
I honestly hate these "infection from start" one time addons and never run them, but on killer with such good mobility and chase power, I think it's really strong addon. I just think there should be much more Fungus on map with this addon.
I believe with these changes she will be much more manageable and still will be solid A tier killer with way higher skill floor that she has now. Thank you for attention!I can agree with all of your changes except regurtitate having a slowdown, its a projectile that only infects you, i think it having no slowdown is fine. Imo instead it should have a longer cooldown to promote dodging the shot more. 2.5 seconds is crazy short for an attack with auto aim, and it doesnt feel very rewarding when you dodge it only for the killer to try again in 2.5 seconds.
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@Amanova said:
I played against her several times, against her more than 80% of loops are useless. You just have to drop everything (similar to Clown) or if you manage to stay at that pallet well gl to you because it's not 50/50 anymore it's 70/50 thanks to insane speed, it's not fun at all! She just uses m2 from a huge distance and gets you no matter what you do, leave the pallet when she crouched? Nope, she still gets you with her dash or super fast uncrouching speed. She are no better than an overbuffed Clown! Do you know what the most boring thing is in DBD? Not having any counter against killers like against a Knight
My suggestion:- Reduce the dash speed to 7m because 7m per second is already the speed of the Spirit (but Pig can see) if you didn't know or decrease dash range a bit -2m would be fine and solve most of the issues
- Nerf her uncrouching a little because she gets up too quickly that even the animation looks weird
- Rework addons that directly affect the dash, many use green addons against us which there is almost no counterplay and it is easy to zone the survivor even on safe loops like shack combined with high ping on killer
Why should I play Chucky if Pig does everything better? Chucky can't slide his m2 as smoothly as she does and has a cooldown on power when Pig can use it whenever she wants. Don't forget that Pig has traps that slow down the game, now she has a strong dash without a cooldown and traps. Too much for one killer, too casualized like Clown with no brain needed. If you wanna keep new changes at least remove her dash sliding just as you removed from Blight
Complaining about pig has to be the biggest self report in the game.... they buffed her ambush speed by 2% total (because they nerfed the ambush addon by 1%) if you think ambush going 2% faster makes 80% of loops useless i suggest you watch some looping guides…
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3975531#Comment_3975531
Why would it hurt his skill celling? Now you would have to time the cancel better, which would require more skill. Regardless I don‘t want that part to be nerfed, but if they need to that, this would be what I would be fine with.
Kaneki has 2 main ways of body blocking pallets and windows , my orginal body block clip was using all 3 leaps and using the 3d to land on top of the pallet. This is the other way and more common on most loops of the game, you use your second leaps slide to get infront of the survivor and instantly cancel, if you force kaneki to slide every leap i wouldnt be able to get this block because i would slide too far.
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@Emeal said:
I think Ghoul was already on BHVR's radar, they were not gonna let a unpopular killer last forever.
It was pretty clear ghoul wasnt gonna stay like this, i just want BHVR to give him the right changes.
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@Elan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3975488#Comment_3975488
It's like combination. Because for example Skull Merchant was hard hated killer, but she was never really strong or anything, just boring. Ghoul is frustrating to go against and extremely strong on top of that.
- You injured me with no effort across map in 3s, nothing to do.
- You scampered the pallet and hit me, if i didnt drop the pallet i wouldnt make it around anyway.
- You leaped right behind me, m1 me immidiately, nothing I can do.
- You injured me and completely negate the full haste from exhaustion perks.
- I vaulted as you scampered getting autohit, nothing much to do.
Ghoul in nutshell. I understand people enjoy him, not my case, but he can't be so unhealthy for the game balance.
Notice how 2 of your issues are his enrage vault. This is why i think the ability is unhealthy the way it works now, it should be more like weskers vault you can use on god pallets/ strong pallets. As for leaping behind you and instantly m1, this is not possible if you get hit by the grab attack, kaneki goes into full cooldown giving you a speed boost, its actually better to get grabbed then m1d.
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@Langweilig said:
That‘s what I want for him.
I mainly want them to nerf the hitscan attack and remove kidnap tech, that‘s all he needs. If they want to touch the cancel make him slide for a few seconds when canceling but please don’t make it longer.
Making kaneki slide for a few seconds would hurt his skill expression a lot, i would be highly against it unless it would only be on the first leap
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@OrphicRaven13 said:
There should definitely be a supernatural collaboration, I've heard numerous people say the same thing! It would be so popular!
supernatural can easily be a 2 survivor chapter like TWD is just have castiel as a legendary for Dean!
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@YamamuraVideoRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3967009#Comment_3967009
I don't know. Haven't played ghoul myself, but honestly just looks like you vaguely clicked near the ceiling in the general direction you wanted to go, then clicked on the pallet. So I can't really tell if what you did was indeed "skillful" or not.
But just thought I'd point out that you could also have just kept chasing Laurie, baited her into dropping the pallet, and simply leaped over it while locking her in place.
So it's basically like you did a 360 on huntress and still nailed your shot. "Look how skilled I am!" Debatable, but unnecessary.
All i can say on the skill part is try it yourself. I think the enrage vault shouldnt be that easy and nerfed into only being worth it on god pallets like wesker. And even if i could down Laurie like that it would take a lot longer then this way
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3967072#Comment_3967072
I agree this looks to be tough to do. But in this clip. Was there ANYTHING survivor could have done? It looks to me this is one of those things where killer either mess up, or gets hit. Survivor can be a literal bot.
Things like that do not belong to multiplayer games IMO. But correct me if I am wrong and there is something to do against this as survivor (I haven't touched the game in 2 years)
Best things to do if you know kaneki is gonna try this is double back after his first leap. You need to be VERY quick with your second leap otherwise they make it to the pallet. But just like huntress has tiles that are good for her power this car loop is just a good loop for kaneki. Bodyblocking isnt possible on a lot of loops and knowing which are and which arent blockable is a skill you need to learn. She couldve also faked the pallet greed and vacuum back to stun me.
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@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3966982#Comment_3966982
Im sorry but have you played ghoul at all yourself?
Yes, seemed very easy to me… Thing is your fancy blocks are simply not needed. The most annoying aspect for me is when he catch up, you can't do anything about it. You can't continue running and you can't double back. That's what I want to get rid of.
Congrats you killed any skill ceilling the killer has. How about we keep ghouls skill ceilling and nerf the mindless parts of his kit like enrage vault and grab attack?
Well, I want to remove his mindless part and that's exactly what instant cancel during his dash does. You don't need to aim at any specific spot and know distance so you end near survivor. You just leap anywhere close to survivor and then just press button. Wow, so much skill.
Most of your clips you showed, would still work. For example the one you posted above. That was using 3 dashes, so that would still work.
You could still use it in loop, but you need to use know where to leap to get result you want. That seems as increasing skill ceiling instead…Im all for nerfing his vault. Thats the main thing i want nerfed because it dumbs ghouls anti loop down to pressing 1 button. giving him a Legion type slow will hurt his skill expression i am very much against it.
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@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3966982#Comment_3966982
Im sorry but have you played ghoul at all yourself?
Yes, seemed very easy to me… Thing is your fancy blocks are simply not needed. The most annoying aspect for me is when he catch up, you can't do anything about it. You can't continue running and you can't double back. That's what I want to get rid of.
Congrats you killed any skill ceilling the killer has. How about we keep ghouls skill ceilling and nerf the mindless parts of his kit like enrage vault and grab attack?
Well, I want to remove his mindless part and that's exactly what instant cancel during his dash does. You don't need to aim at any specific spot and know distance so you end near survivor. You just leap anywhere close to survivor and then just press button. Wow, so much skill.
Most of your clips you showed, would still work. For example the one you posted above. That was using 3 dashes, so that would still work.
You could still use it in loop, but you need to use know where to leap to get result you want. That seems as increasing skill ceiling instead…This is a tripple leap block which is only possibe on very long loops,
This is a more standard block on short loops where you use the slide to get infront of the survivor and CANCEL, you see the issue with your nerf now? This is exactly my point, you people claim the killer has no skill ceilling yet you can outplay loops like this without ever touching his vault. I almost never use enrage vault simply because i dont need to use it. So again ill repeat my proposed nerfs for ghoul.
1. Revert enrage vault speed to ptb values
2. Grab should only injure you within 8 meters
3. If you REALLY want to nerf his cancel only make the cancel longer or not possible on the first leap only.
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@Ohyakno said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3967009#Comment_3967009
Why on earth are you doing all this weird ass weeble wopping around when you can just eat the stun, catch up to the survivor or scamper if they stay and get the down anyway? If having to contort yourself through all these gymnastics is the only way to challenge yourself with the killer then don't you see a problem with that?
Because i want to improve at the killer ? Most of these enrage vault defenders wont ever actually improve at ghoul Because thats the only trick they know
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3967015#Comment_3967015
You could argue removing hug tech and j flick was a nerf to blights skill ceiling. I would argue there's more skill in understanding and working within the limitations of a killers power.
Autoaim free hit into leap cancel m1 is by far the most common tactic and requires no skill to perform. No amount of triple leap 360 no scope body block clips will change that.
Youre just ignoring part of his kit to make your point, this the problem with saying a killer has no skill ceilling while you clearly dont play the killer. I gave video evidence about his skill ceilling and youre just choosing to ignore it because "no one does it" ghoul needs nerfs but completely gutting his skill ceilling, the thing i litterally showed you evidence of is not a good change. Its funny how youre complaining about the vault and grab when i litterally mention nerfs to both of those things if you just scroll up. So yes destroying ghouls skill ceilling with terrible nerfs is not a good idea ,and anyone arguing for his cancel to removed just never played ghoul in their life and needs to drop their crazy bias.
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3967009#Comment_3967009
in his current iteration there's literally no reason to make it that complicated. just force the pallet and either vault→ m1 or break pallet → catch up cancel → m1
SKILL
Nice strawman! Claim ghoul doesnt have a high skill ceilling, i show you an example of his skill ceilling "it doesnt matter" yeah okay dude, i guess blight doesnt have a high skill ceilling either just brute force the pallet! Guess huntress doesnt have a high skill ceilling either, just zone with your hatchets
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Yeah you want to back that claim up?
If ghouls skill ceilling is so low please Post a clip of you bodyblocking survivors mid loop like this. Hes easy right? So it wouldnt be an issue. Just play a game and get a clip!
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@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3966618#Comment_3966618
Well, just match his fatigue with Legion and make it so he can cancel only after dash and slide ends, not during it.
He would keep his high mobility, free injury and vaulting. I think that should be more than enough to keep him viable, but he would suddenly have some counterplay at least.
For all I care with those changes increase back his distance for leap.Horrible changes. Im sorry but have you played ghoul at all yourself? You want to make his cancel longer and remove its usefullness. Congrats you killed any skill ceilling the killer has. How about we keep ghouls skill ceilling and nerf the mindless parts of his kit like enrage vault and grab attack?
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@KingOfDoom55 said:
Ghoul:
1: remove the ability to cancel leaps or increase the input delay before giving back the ability to m1 again (like it has rn except ghouls would have to wait longer before being able to m1 again)
2: make the vaulting speed a bit slower for both base & enraged mode
Xenomorph:
1: rework or buff acid blood, after some time, I realized the rework I suggested in the previous post is basically a better spirit fury, so instead, just allow it to down Survivors & stay active longer or rework it for a different use, like I said in the previous post I made, it's very situational, but still somewhat useless in a way
2: again, remove motion trackers or allow undetectable to bypass the motion trackers, all stealth builds are useless to xenomorph due to the motion trackers going on to a max of 41m & regardless of undetectable or not
3: tail strike can now curve up or down for better angles to strike & increase its range to 5.8/6.8 meters
Wesker:
1: slightly reduce the restrictive turning rate SLIGHTLY for better bound hits but not too much in a way that it's no longer a skill or to how it was before
2: rework the infection or allow the infection speed to be increased, 3% hindered for the long time required to wait is not worth it, or just increased the hindered to 6 or 5% or allow it only go down to 20% instead of 1% when a infected Survivor is hooked, the time required to wait for a fully infected Survivor who only gets 3% hindered doesn't seem to be worth it, although, this might just be me, but I think the infection can be slightly better in a way that it is rn
3: fix the grab hit boxes, sometimes Survivors still get grabbed from the other side of pallets or corners from time to time, even if it isn't as often as it was before
Legion:
1: increase the speed bonus with every feral slash ever so slightly, like, by a additional 0.1mps to the current amount given with every slash
2: allow pools of blood & scratch marks to be seen while in feral frenzy at a reduced time (meaning they disappear slightly faster than normal but only in feral frenzy)
Springtrap:
1: make the footsteps slightly louder
2: Reduce undetectable after teleporting between doors
Sadako:
1: allow the bars speed to be increased by a small amount
2: new ability: telekinetic break: up to 10m, you can break pallets and this ability goes on cooldown for 45s after 1 pallet is broken
Demogorgon:
1: reduce the action input delay when charging the abyss, as of right now, when charging the abyss, and trying to use shred, it'll use a basic attack instead, even if its right after the abyss is done charging unless waiting 2s or so
2: slightly increase the turning rate right after shred attack (missed/pallets/landed) for better tracking but not too much to where is to fast or not as restrictive
3: reduce the aura range for Survivors to see portals by 2 meters
4: increase the undetectable by 5ish seconds
Personal: please don't just downvote and not respond, I want people's feedback so I can get better at making balance changes to killers & such
Removing ghouls cancel or making it longer destroys any skill ceilling the killer has, not a good nerf. His vault speed should get nerfed i agree but touching his cancel or removing it is very bad.
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@Feather said:
When i made post that we should AT LEAST reduce his speed to 4.4m/s i got "skill issue" comments, "Kaneki would be bad", "He is only m1 killer after first hit".
Because its a pointless change that would only make kaneki feel worse to play, the annoying parts of ghoul dont get solved by making him 110
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@M0mmy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3965626#Comment_3965626
I don't see why you get downvoted so much, it's about finding a solution for both sides.
I don't want ghoul to be nerfed to the ground either, I play killer myself and I know that would suck hard. I just feel like he got too much going for himself and as a survivor you cannot do anything about it.
And I like your suggestions, especially the grab one. It's super frustrating when he still gets a free hit even though you're on the other side of a jungle gym and nowhere close to you.Some People Just cant get past their bias, they either never played ghoul a day in their life and want these insane changes that would kill him on the spot. Or you have people that bairly play against him and dont see that he does infact has issues that make him an unfun matchup. I personally dont mind playing against ghoul but he defo has parts of his kit that are just unhealthy ATM.
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@M0mmy said:
I love the collaboration with Tokyo Ghoul, it's great. Sadly, I cannot find myself having any fun when playing against this killer. Any exhaustion perk against him is useless because he can just catch up and he always gets a guaranteed first hit? When you manage to outplay his power with some obstacles he gains it back immediately, no reward for the survivor.
I like playing against a good blight (or even nurse) which both are S Tier Killers because there is some skill involved and you can outplay the killer if you know what you're doing, but this? No fun. The more I play against him the less I want to play this game.
Hope this gets better or different.Yes ghoul isnt balanced. Yet everytime i try to suggest changes i get downvoted to hell, the issue we have with him rn is that we need to give him some non biased nerfs... in one hand we have People that want to shoot kaneki dead like skullmerchant, and on the other side we have people who claim ghoul is perfectly fine....
as someone with over 80 hours on him now i would suggest the following changes.
1. Revert enrage vault speed to PTB - reason: ghoul has insane mobility, a free injure and can outplay loops with bodyblocking. Ghoul does not need his vault this strong when he already has other things that make him A tier.
2. Grab range and leap range need to be different , ghoul should only injure you within 8 meters of your leap, if you grab someone further then 8 meters you should only gain countdown (and still lose your power) - Reason: his grab is very easy to land because of the aim assist and it being hitscan, forcing ghoul to be closer to survivors would mean ghoul has to think about his leaps more and it allows for more survivor counterplay.
3. Minimum leap distance should be 3 meters down from 5 -reason: this QOL buff would make his power less clunky on indoor maps and when youre trying to body block.
Example of a body block
Also on a sidenote ghoul is currently bugged and only loses 1 token from a pallet kick, this should be fixed ASAP
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@pigconnoisseur said:
Hello devs, forum members and the restricted 10 pig mais! I was writting some ideas to buff the reversed bear traps and I hope u like it. I already make a post, but i decided reorganize the text to better understanding. Weeeeeell, I know probably this post isn't going to reach them, but If a some kind soul fins this, please read with kindness.
- All of us know that the pig is a pressure killer and not a chase killer, but her pressure power (Her traps) are so easy to counter. The main proposal is make the traps activate instantly after being placed in the survivors, without the need to pop a gen. Make the pig needs the gens pop make her inconsistent. I know, pig isn't a ez killer and advanced players can extract some value from the killer, but against the meta players, it is difficult to maintain the pressure in game when the killer needs the gens pops. I also know what the pig is the nightmare of some players because their luck, but the only thing what go changes is the activation. The instant activation can cause more panic in the survivors who will not have the peace of the actual survivors have with the innative traps. Not only in the mid game but in the endgame too. Well, now i can continue the suggestions.
- Decrease the active traps durations to 120s. Its a good time, 2 minutes for the survivors search the boxes and put off their traps. This make the need of put off the traps more immediate and don't give time to do gens in this time.
- Remove the guaranteed third time to remove the trap, if the survivors don't make gens with the traps, they can put off the their traps without problems.
- To make ir more balanced, give a short slowdown in the traps time when pig is near, something to punish the pigs if her wants to furtive chase the survivors to take the trap pop.
- An extra one, i just think the Hangman's trick need a better rework, but in the ptb is already better than before.
Finally, u can see maybe im not a good balancear but i like a Lot the pig and i don't see this buffs like something OP, just something who can make the pig more consistent killer in her power and pressure.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/5HUOZ2POEBJ8/images.jpeg
While i would love more buffs for pig i think her traps are not what needs to be buffed. The ptb changes bhvr did where very good and a big step in the right direction, However its a lot of sidegrades. I rather they would straight up buff ambush speed and leave the speed addon the same.
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@Memesis said:
After playing tons of back-to-back matches against ghoul I can no longer fathom how the devs felt it would be fair or necessary to give the ghoul the free hit mechanic.
Why doesn't the hit scan attack just give the 3rd leap charge without injuring the survivor? Ghoul has, I would argue, perhaps the best mobility of any killer including teleporting killers. This mobility power (without the free hit scan attack) can be used to get hits at and in-between loops. You can use this power to vault pallets and windows faster than Wesker, leap to cut-off resources similar to wraith, and quickly leap to mindgame shack for example.
Ghoul does NOT need a mechanic that grants him a free first hit. He is powerful enough with the rest of his kit to use his power to get hits.
My opinion was different when ghoul released because I did not see the potential of his mobility as a chase tool. At least I can admit when I'm wrong.
Being forced to be constantly injured against ghoul takes what would be an exhilarating and fun killer to face and throws that balance completely out the window. Honestly, I think it's pretty fun to loop as and against ghoul with his leaps as a chase tool, but the experience is soured when you only get to do that for one health state.
If you think Ghoul needs a free hit, you are a scrub crutching on a flawed design.
400th insanly biased ghoul nerf post.... look im all for nerfing the annoying parts of ghoul, but straight up removing his injure without any compensation buffs is just mindblowing.... They should Just make grab range and leap range different where you can only grab a survivor within 10 meters while his leap goes back to 16, oh and lets not forget scamper 2.0 which gives ghoul free downs without effort (which should be reverted to ptb numbers)
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Yeah this bug makes ghoul unplayable ,
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@MechWarrior3 said:
He’s fun to play as but miserable to play against.
It’s because of crap like this;
This is his enrage vault bug that shouldve been hotfixed out in the first patch
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@Valimure said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3951088#Comment_3951088
I'm not paying extra money for licensed characters. Half my play time in this game is killer; it doesn't take a genius level IQ to look at the numbers and see that every single other mobile killer has a delay / slow after using power.
Here's the direct comparison with Legion, who has a power that's essentially the same thing, again:
Legion: 2.5 second fatigue at 2.3m/s
Kaneki: 2 second cooldown at 4.6m/s
You should absolutely be able to use his power to block pallets and windows, that's awesome skill expression. You shouldn't be able to jump next to someone on the smallest loops in the game and still land free downs when you already have a free first hit, slowdown, and top tier mobility.
This is the problem with asking for nerfs about a character you never touched. How can you call something "0 skill free downs" when you dont even own the character? "Looking at the stats" doesnt mean anything when both killers play a completely different way. Also its really funny that you brought up Legion who has been terrible ever since he released. Both Legion and kaneki has different strengths Legion can injure the entire team way easier and much faster on top of being able to down with their power, if they get 4 frenzy hits. Kaneki has a 8 second cooldown where he has an animation every time he grab injures you. Kaneki is undeniably stronger then Legion because his mobility and chase are way better.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3950446#Comment_3950446
People tend to forget he isnt skill less and blocks like thins especialy on smaler loops need quick and accurate aim, you can easily hit the survivor hitbox or miss. Funniest think is he will be second hated character in the game while more op and stronger killers like blight and nurse can outplay you in this situation in more ways and all it matters is they need to miss or misjudge the situation. Many survivors cry more about skullmerchant nor trickster forgeting the fact if your team doesnt fail its easy 2 amn out at worst.
I dare them to do the same thing (they wont)
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@Stibfa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3950212#Comment_3950212
Please send me clips of you body blocking survivors like that if its free, it actually takes skill to pull this off this is like playing around a wesker or billy around a loop, this is only possible on certain loops and takes a lot of mechanica skill to pull off. Otherwise ghoul is a free injure m1 killer with a movement power with an overtuned vault(which needs to get nerfed)
If all you can do is downvote and not get a quick clip of something thats supposed to be "really easy" it already tells me enough
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@angrychuck said:
My best guess is that there is potential for different power skins, I don't believe Kaneki could get a skin for his power since well from what I understand of the anime is that his power doesn't change from ghoul to ghoul. There was initially a lot of backlash about the killer power skins, mainly because the power skins had to be used with certain cosmetics on top of already costing 3000 auric cells. They might add new power skins in the future but for licensed killers that will mean dealing with license holders again.
There is actually one skin i would really like for kaneki from the anime where his kagune does change.
basically his kagune can grow a type of armor, i think this set as a visceral would be really cool
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@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3950005#Comment_3950005
then Kaneki could still simply jump in front of her instead, which is easy with no slide and outcome is exactly same?
You say she can double back, but Kaneki can deal with that anyway. In that situation she was just dead, Kaneki just need to jump in front of the way, where she is facing and she can't turn around fast enough with has short his fatigue is.If the ada knew i was going for that block she couldve looped the rock side of that loop. Ghoul needs a second grapple point thats close to a loop to body block .
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3949358#Comment_3949358
Well i dont think ist super easy to pull something like that on kaneki you need to be fast and accurate, if ada was more experienced than all she had to do was just run back after the first rush and she would be safe for some time.
Ive done blocks like this countless of times already, you mess a lot of them up dont get me wrong because its very hard to consistently pull off, but ive had games with multiple blocks.
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@Valimure said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3949358#Comment_3949358
As you can see in this clip he has absolutely no movement speed reduction during his cooldown after power.
Ada had absolutely no chance to do anything here because he can cancel power faster than you can make it around even the smallest loops.
A killer with free first hits should not also be getting free downs. His design seems like it was intended to mimic Legion - they wanted him to go get those free hits / slowdown by hopping around the map to find other survivors, but then just made it so utterly easy to down no one even bothers with that playstyle.
Please send me clips of you body blocking survivors like that if its free, it actually takes skill to pull this off this is like playing around a wesker or billy around a loop, this is only possible on certain loops and takes a lot of mechanica skill to pull off. Otherwise ghoul is a free injure m1 killer with a movement power with an overtuned vault(which needs to get nerfed)
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@Tornxs said:
Kaneki needs a massive nerf or a rework, he is super unfun to go against. It feels there is no positive interactions to his power from the survivor side, his first attack with his power feels cheap and undeserving almost all the time then his follow up with the ability to catch up to you as quick as someone like blight or nurse it just feels like you might as well give up when he finds you.
Most killers are really fun to play against and their powers mostly feel fun to learn to play around but Kaneki just has no downside, almost every game I have had with him a survivor as DCed. Every YouTube video of Kaneki the comment section is complaining about his power, it is on Bhvr's radar? It's at a point now where if I verse one I would rather take the 5 minute DC penalty then to deal with it. The killer is incredibly unhealthy for the game, a killer should have a power a survivor can learn and counter with skill but free hits through walls/pallets/windows is really bad game design then the ability to vault a pallet and insta down you if your injured. It feels like im playing the original legion.
Kaneki needs his enrage vault to get nerfed, i honestly dont mind playing against him because he has to play tiles as a m1 killer, the vault just feels very cheap right now
How i try to play him is by body blocking instead
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@meg_solos said:
Like the title says my hot take for the ghoul is that he shouldn't apply deep wounds and he shouldn't be able to cancel his power WHILE he's flying. that's just ridiculous lol
Ghoul should get nerfed yes. But his cancel is an extremely important part of his kit, and the power would feel terrible if it got nerfed and would kill any skill expression ghoul has. The real issue is his enrage vault, that gives ghoul easy downs. When he already gets a free injure and insane mobility
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@DallasCarter said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3911284#Comment_3911284
"Nearly every killer"? The killers affected are the few that either don't need it, or are not super strong. Bubba should be, but isn't, same with Billy, Trickster, Huntress, Deathslinger, Nurse, Blight… Do I even need to continue? only like 20% of the roster has their power disable near hook, when well over 50% of them should have it.
As for Ghoul Specifically, he is stronger than Nurse. Why? Well, you don't need more than a few hours to know how he works and get a 4k every game. Nurse takes a LOT of time to master, her skill ceiling is astronomical, her skill floor is also pretty high up. Her skill floor is higher than the Ghoul's Skill CEILING!!! Power Canceling should not exist! Or it has a hefty cool down like Legion has. His power should be mobility and injury at max, and speaking of injury, they should not have the freest injury in the entire game. He should also not FREEZE THE SURVIVOR IN PLACE when they get hit. The only way to circumvent this is when vaulting. And speaking of vaulting, they should NOT be able to grab a survivor to vault a pallet, or it should give the survivor a speed boost so they can counter it. Lastly, Ghoul needs a rework of their add-ons. Hide's Headphones should apply a TIMED Oblivious once Deep Wounds is MENDED. Also, Endurance should still work in deep wounds, but it cuts the timer in half, to counter killers that bypass the mechanic, like Ghoul, Slinger, and Legion.Im sorry but "ghoul stronger then nurse" in his current nerfed state is insane skill issue.... you want some tips against him?
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@terumisan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3942218#Comment_3942218
i disagree with the enraged vault unless we're going to let him down with his power
That would be a terrible change, if ghoul could down with his power he would be stronger then nurse. There are other ways to play pallets, you can body block them for example
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3942212#Comment_3942212
True ghoul main here, every one who claims he is some killer/survivor doesnt mean he is.
You want proof lmao? Here some clips i hit while playing him by bodyblocking pallets instead of using enrage vault for easy hits.
I can give you more if you still dont believe me....
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@KingOfDoom55 said:
Let's be honest, anymore nerfs to the ghoul, and it will gut them entirely, so much so ppl will want buffs for him, then, when that happens, this cycle will start all over again. So can we please leave him alone? At least until a proper reasonable nerf comes along that DOESNT gut the killer itself? Or if another nerf comes along, make compensation buffs along with it, bc the ghoul has been nerf TWICE along with almost more than half of his addons, ik he's miserable to play against, but nerfing will just completely destroy this killer due to being nerfed 2 times in a row already
Bc there's Definitely better ways to address this killer than just nerfing altogether just saying
Ghoul needs 3 changes and he would pretty much be perfect
1. Enrage vault is too strong compared to how easy it is to do. Enrage vault should be more like weskers vault for save pallets/godpallets.
There are other ways to play pallets with ghoul that take a lot more skill to pull off, like bodyblocking
2. Grab range and leap range should be different. Grab range should be between 8-10 meters while his leap should be reverted back to 16 meters.
3. Minimum leap distance should be 3 meters down from 5, this just makes his power feel clunky on indoor maps or when youre trying to bodyblock.
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@bathwatergrill said:
Can someone tell me why Kaneki still has 0 cd on basic attacks after using power to vault. We have killer with better mobility than Wesker and being able to use power to vault or catch up and still instantly hit. Makes no sense. I could literally run the smallest, but safe loop with dropped pallet but still can't make it running that 2 meters for the vault before killer already hits me after vaulting.
Im saying this as a ghoul main his vault needs to get nerfed.
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@Stibfa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/447463/the-ghoul
You want some tips to go against him?
Clearly the 6 people that downvoted me wanted tips so here we go.
When youre healthy try no to drop pallets, break line of sight and try to put obstacles between ghoul and you, there is a chance ghoul gets stuck on something while grabbing you which cancels his m2 hit.
If you Do get hit its always better to get hit by his m2. This puts his power on a 8 second cooldown and gives you a speedboost use this downtime to run to a loop. Try not to get m1d this lets him instantly leap after you.
When ghoul kicks a pallet when he has his power he will go in 5 second cooldown. Use this down time to run to another loop.
Make sure you heal against ghoul unless you have a very safe map if you have a map with deadzones being injured is basically a free down.
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@champzaza007 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/447463/the-ghoul
In case you didn't know, The Ghoul got nerfed a lot in the last 2 patches. He got so weak that his player base dropped significantly.
Ghoul is not weak lmao, hes still solid A tier
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@Rapid99 said:
This is the first time where I might completely drop a killer straight up from the fact the power just doesn't work as intended 75% of the time. It's unfathomable how often my power just won't latch on to anything even when I'm looking at the flattest wall achievable.
The amount of chases I've lost simply because my power straight up decides "nah i'm aight" and just won't work. This killer may be strong on paper and when his power actually works, but trying to get it to actually work has been the most frustrating dbd experience I've had in like 1000+ hours.
Maybe youre having issues with his terrible minimum leap distance, you cant leap to anything closer then 5 meters which can feel really bad.
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@onlyMisa01162 said:
I CANT DO THIS ANYMORE. Dead by daylight should have Done him as a skin and Not as an own killer. Hes too OP and annoying. IT really pisses me Off that you cant really stand a Chance. I Love Tokyo Ghoul but this was a bit stupid. Make an cooldown for the attacks.
You want some tips to go against him?
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@ButThatBootyTho said:
Why does this killer have such a short recovery after cancelling his leap? He can cancel it and immediately hit you right after. There should be a 5 second window before he can use his m1. That's the only problem I have with him.
Its short because he cant down with his power, if you make his cancel time 5 seconds(actually insane btw, imagine not being able to play the game for 5 seconds every time you try to use his power) you basically make him a worse legion and kill his skill ceilling and skill expression which is body blocking
They should nerf enrage vault because it gives you downs without effort.
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@Elan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3939515#Comment_3939515
Ghoul has minimal skill ceiling, I saw few people try to use leaps mid chase to block the pallet but that's 0,1 % kaneki players. This killer is very simple and has multiple ways to get free hits, which is just not good, considering how balanced the game become, killers like Kaneki, Blight or Nurse should not exist in current version.
Just because you dont see a lot of People do it doesnt mean suddenly his skill ceilling doesnt exist.
They should nerf enrage vault to promote this high skill gameplay instead of destroying kanekis skill ceilling
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@Callahan9116 said:
Don't touch ghoul
They should nerf his enrage vault
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@Hex_Ignored said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3939213#Comment_3939213
Ghoul is a really bad example, as he needs a longer cancel cooldown. He's way too easy and forgiving for how strong he is.
A better comparison would be blight. Once he starts rushing, he also can't just end it without going through his fatigue animation. That's what punishes greedy/sloppy uses of the power and rewards survivors for successful dodges or smart use of the environment.
Nerfing ghouls cancel wont actually help with the annoying situations, getting an extra second in a deadzone does nothing, while getting an extra second in a loop kills his skill expression
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@Grigerbest said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3939202#Comment_3939202
I'm starting to see a hypocrisy in this thread. :D
Ghoul can cancel his power without any fatigue or slowdown. Are you against it? :)
And btw, he's much faster than Nurse with both ability traverse and basic movement speed. Maybe Ghoul should not be able to cancel his power as well? :)
Ghoul cant down with his power.....
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@Skeleton23 said:
The Ghoul has one issue that makes him feel boring and not fun to play as and against is that he can just be Enraged Mode the entire match and his Enraged Mode feels literally no different than his normal mode. In Normal mode his leap length and strangth should be weaker and shorter so he still has his map pressure just not as good as if he was Enraged
What I would do to make him not only fun to play as but also against is to make him a mixer of Oni and Wesker. Like instead of making him just leap attack once and being Enraged he would need to Attack multiple people to be engaged and make it Activate able to give control on when to use it. Basically make it as a tool and not as a infinite but useless and annoying ability that makes Zero sense for The Character.
How I would make it is that if you Do a Leap attack ok a Survivor it won't down them only Deep wound but it will fill the Enraged Meter and if you fill it up by doing the Leap Attack to different survivors. Once available the Ghoul can activate it and gain new abilities that would make sense such as make him only able to vault Pallets with Leaps while Enraged only and after Leaping a pallet your hindered for the amount of the same time as Weskers making him unable to attack until he can move properly move again. But the Pallet he vaulted will be unvaultable to not only make it so he doesn't just hit after a vault but make it so Survivors cant just Revault the Pallet after. His Leaps while Enraged will be faster and more Aggressive giving survivors more reason to make him waste it and learn to body block to keep him out of it. I'm saying there is counter play YAY!!!!
Warning Normal mode can't Vault Pallets anymore and yes Normal mode is nerfed to give Ghouls more reason to get Enraged but also give survivors a chance to against the Ghoul
Let me know what you guys think of this rework and if this is better or even worse
Enrage mode is fine, non enraged ghouls mobility is already not that amazing, and the way enrage works now is actually very healthy for survivors, ghoul is sometimes forced to grab injured survivors to keep his enrage up, which gives you a free speed boost. Its a mechanic you need to keep up so you cant Just m1 People and instantly leap on them after 5 seconds, its actually better to get m2ed against ghoul