Little_Kitten
Little_Kitten
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3298226#Comment_3298226
"The strongest killer in the game who has the shortest chases in the hands of a good player should not be getting easy gen regression. The strongest killer in the game should not be getting 1 hit downs - except via NOED or Make your Choice."
Jolt and Sloppy are still far less opressive than the current gen kick meta... So I don't really know if it helps to remove her ability to use weaker perks... Exposed perks of course are a problem however.
Among the exposed perks, if we look closely, only Starstruck, NOED and Devour Hope are really very dangerous with the nurse.
MYC (Make Your Choice) is only really dangerous, for the target, if the nurse couples it to Floods of Rage because otherwise, there is a good chance that the targeted person has hidden somewhere before she arrives on site.
HOWEVER, I agree that, if she does NOT use Flood of rage, there is a risk that she will fall back on the one who, precisely, has just been unhooked...
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3297703#Comment_3297703
-"The nurse's first blink is, in most cases, only to get closer to her target. It is with the 2nd blink that she will lock on to her target and deliver her shot."
Which means that she would require a perfect long single blink to get a hit. Translation : she would now have an incredibly rough game start.
As a survivor I had zero problems with nurse other than nonsense like double range before the 6.0 change. Why? Because I ran spine chill for 6 years. It was 100% the hard counter perk to both Nurse and Spirit. If nurse had the right blink angle your cat lit up. If not then you just walked away if uninjured after breaking line of sight.
-"The nurse doesn't need to be slowed down any more than that after a hit"
That is not an opinion most people share. She can have the fastest two hit in the game other than Huntress - who I am proposing would also have the same cool down on with a hatchet that she has for an M1 attack. This would require the nurse to spend one or two cycles to catch up before they could attempt a 2 blink attack. This would make Nurse feel far less oppressive and create more room for counterplay.
"-There is no reason to touch her addons."
Nurse and Blight have addons with 30-50% effects. Meanwhile we have killers like pig that have 3-9% effects. Nurse addons don't need to affect distance or cooldown. You can make hits with perfect play. Buffing these two parts of her kit is what makes her oppressive.
-"Again, Nurse needs her second blink to secure her shot, unless she's lucky,"
You forgot the option where she's really good. Rewarding first hit blinks would make her kit harder to use. The problem is that relying on two blinks to hit is honestly a skill issue. See examples of good nurses in action.
-"And again, for all the people who suggest turning her M1s into M2s: there is no good reason to do that"
The strongest killer in the game who has the shortest chases in the hands of a good player should not be getting easy gen regression. The strongest killer in the game should not be getting 1 hit downs - except via NOED or Make your Choice.
"Which means that she would require a perfect long single blink to get a hit. Translation : she would now have an incredibly rough game start."
That's exactly right; 1-blink's hit exist, of course, but that's not what the nurse should rely on if she's thinking about an "efficiency" game.
"That is not an opinion most people share. She can have the fastest two hit in the game other than Huntress - who I am proposing would also have the same cool down on with a hatchet that she has for an M1 attack. This would require the nurse to spend one or two cycles to catch up before they could attempt a 2 blink attack. This would make Nurse feel far less oppressive and create more room for counterplay."
I guess when you talk about this "speed" because the nurse can blink right after wiping her weapon?
I understand what you mean; but you have to remember that when she hits a survivor, the survivor gets a speed boost, in addition to the fact that the nurse puts her head down when she gets tired. This is quite enough to make the survivor move away from the nurse and/or to a more complex loop location.
Of course, this is situational; if the nurse hit him while he was in the middle of a deadzone, I agree that she could easily continue on her way. But it's out of her hands, and the maps have a lot of structures that allow the survivor, even if wounded, to waste the nurse's time while the other 3 survivors get ahead of the repair.
"Nurse and Blight have addons with 30-50% effects. Meanwhile we have killers like pig that have 3-9% effects. Nurse addons don't need to affect distance or cooldown. You can make hits with perfect play. Buffing these two parts of her kit is what makes her oppressive."
I'm not a Blight main, so I wouldn't know how to speak effectively about that.
However, regarding the nurse's addons, they are not really a problem.
I completely agree that they make the game more oppressive, of course, that's the point of an addon, to a certain extent.
However, let's look at the range addons: they allow the nurse, depending on the combo, to blink at 24/26/30m instead of 20.
This means that when the nurse starts a real chase, and is therefore very close to a survivor, that the survivor is facing a nurse who is NOT using a range addon (because during the chase, the nurse is relatively close to the survivor, especially if the survivor loops her in complex structures, with LOS breaking as a strategy rather than putting distance).
When I use Heavy Panting, I can blink at 24m.
However, when I am chasing a survivor, I am almost always within 24m. My Heavy Panting is therefore useless to me during the chase.
Where the range addons were actually a problem was when they accelerated the blink speed EVEN at short range, and I agree that was a big problem.
Also, if I use Kavanagh's Last Beathe for example, I can tp myself at 26m.
But it's double-edged, because the farther my blink starting point is from the survivor, the more time/opportunity it gives him to back/double back and/or prepare a trajectory change to an interesting loop spot for him.
Regarding the reload addons, when I use both at the same time, it actually allows me to chain blinks very quickly, which makes the game much more oppressive for the survivor, I agree!
But it doesn't prevent him from having at his disposal some means to counter me. On the other hand, it is sure, and I agree with you on this, that he will have to think and make decisions much faster, because I would have the capacity to react, on my side, also much faster.
"You forgot the option where she's really good. Rewarding first hit blinks would make her kit harder to use. The problem is that relying on two blinks to hit is honestly a skill issue. See examples of good nurses in action."
Even the best nurses almost always validate their attacks with the second blink.
Of course, in some cases, when they see that it was an absolutely perfect blink, and they are 100% sure that they can do it, they do it with the first blink.
But this is not a constant.
Especially against experienced survivors.
"The strongest killer in the game who has the shortest chases in the hands of a good player should not be getting easy gen regression. The strongest killer in the game should not be getting 1 hit downs - except via NOED or Make your Choice."
In fact, you see, I find that depriving the nurse of Starstruck and NOED would not be a problem, as these two perks can generate something too unbalancing when she uses them.
However, if you turn Nurse's M1 into an M2, it prevents her from using Jolt, Sloppy Butcher and Knockout, which are not overpowered skills. So there is no reason to do this.
So, to prevent the nurse from using Starstruck, but still allow her to use Jolt, Sloppy Butcher and K.O., simply remove her TR when she is carrying a survivor and (a great idea suggested by some players) replace it with a lullaby.
As for NOED, I don't know what your opinion is on that, but I think if that perk just disappeared from the game, it wouldn't be a bad thing in itself.
Anyway, it's nice; and I thank you for it; to be able to discuss a subject like this calmly, far from people who are content to judge/criticize by overabusing generalizations, hyperboles and baseless assumptions 🤗
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When you suggest something other than turning her M1 into an M2 (which there is no justification for), depriving her of her second blink (which there is no justification for), or preventing her from crossing several obstacles in a row (which there is no justification for and which goes against her very gamedesign), call me 😁
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@Sava18 said:
I want a full rework of the character, not a bhvr rework where they do an add-on pass and change 1-2 things base kit(what a joke rework). She should have a different power entirely.
"She should have a different power entirely."
Why ?
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@AbsolutGrndZer0 said:
As I'm sure others have said, the main problem with nurse is that she's one of the few (if not the only) killers whose power counts as a basic attack.
As Pig I move slightly faster for a short time and I hit a survivor, I don't instantly down them even with Exposed, because Exposed requires a basic attack.
Yet, Nurse literally TELEPORTS to the survivor faster than Pig can even blink (pun not intended) and because she then gets a basic attack, the survivor is downed instantly.
So yea, as both a Killer and Survivor player, I think the main change that needs to happen with Nurse is to bring her in line with every other killer and make her attacks count as special attacks until after her fatigue.
I think the main change that needs to happen with Nurse is to bring her in line with every other killer and make her attacks count as special attacks until after her fatigue
It is sometimes disappointing when players keep suggesting the same things when it has already been explained over and over again why it is not a good idea.
It makes you wonder if the people who come to the forum read the topics before they participate.
As I have stated many times, changing the M1 of the nurse to M2 would prevent her from using Jolt, Sloppy butcher and K.O. There is no reason to prevent her from using these perks.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/356457/for-people-that-want-nurse-nerfed
I have 2 different ideas (pick one) :
- Make Nurse and Blight "build up " characters since they are the best killers. Remove buildup from all other killers. Make Nurse need to hit surviovrs 3 times with only one blink in order to give her access to second blink. Give Blight only 3 tokens until he hits 3 times with a rush.
- Give Nurse various nerfs that make her weaker overall. Remove the ability to use starstruck except on non blink hits. Make Nurse wipe her weapon after a successful hit and THEN have fatigue (this will stop the cycle of blink blink hit- blink blink hit). Remove Collision from nurse until after she has recovered from fatigue (to prevent body blocking and allow more PoV tech ). Remove all Blink recharge and distance addons (or reduce the effects to old pig addon levels 1.5-3% effects). Give Nurse a full lunge on the first blink but only a Michael Myers T1 "baby" lunge on the second blink. Change one addon to give her full lunge on second blink (purple).
I suggest you play with the nurse regularly, so that you understand that what you are suggesting contains a lot of nonsense.
"Make Nurse need to hit surviovrs 3 times with only one blink in order to give her access to second blink"
The nurse's first blink is, in most cases, only to get closer to her target. It is with the 2nd blink that she will lock on to her target and deliver her shot.
Sometimes it is possible to hit a survivor with the first blink, but this is not a constant and is unlikely to work against experienced survivors.
"Make Nurse wipe her weapon after a successful hit and THEN have fatigue (this will stop the cycle of blink blink hit- blink blink hit)."
The nurse doesn't need to be slowed down any more than that after a hit; the survivor has, unless of course he is in a deadzone, already time to get to a loop spot where to extend the hunt, thanks to the acceleration the killer's hit gives him.
"Remove all Blink recharge and distance addons (or reduce the effects to old pig addon levels 1.5-3% effects)."
There is no reason to touch her addons.
I remind you that the nurse's range addons are only felt when she is more than 24/26/30m away. When she is chasing you, since she is relatively close to you, it is like playing against a nurse with no (range) addons.
"Give Nurse a full lunge on the first blink but only a Michael Myers T1 "baby" lunge on the second blink."
Again, Nurse needs her second blink to secure her shot, unless she's lucky, or playing against potatoes, and it would be totally illogical to force her to use an addon just to be able to use a basic element of her gameplay.
And again, for all the people who suggest turning her M1s into M2s: there is no good reason to do that, because it would prevent her from using certain perks, such as Jolt, Sloppy Butcher or K.O. and there is no reason why the nurse can't use those perks.
Regarding the Starstruck problem, remove her TR when she is carrying a survivor and we won't talk about it.
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@Donleov said:
Another idea would to give survivors 1 more health state on their first chase, the nurse would need to hit them to steal their breath and then she becomes normal. That would give some breathing room in the begining of the match.
And so, to put down a survivor, the nurse would have to give him, potentially 4 blows.
2 "normal" hits, one hit absorbed by DH, and the extra hit you're talking about.
I don't see what would justify the nurse having to hit a survivor 3/4 times to put him down.
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@Donleov said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3296311#Comment_3296311
In that case you don't understand advanced nurse gameplay, when you want a easy blink you start to walk until the survivor gets in a bad position, look at any old school nurse specially when someone enters their heads. A walking nurse is the most boring aspect of her gameplay because at this point she is going to hit you 90% of the time.
I'm not saying the nurse never walks.
I'm just saying that proposing that she can't teleport through more than one obstacle is definitely not a valid idea.
She would become the most laughable killer to face, the moment the survivor was next to a wall corner.
And while, of course, a nurse can walk to adjust her blink beforehand, there is a difference between walking "a little" and "a lot", as you suggest.
The whole point of the nurse is that she can walk 20/24/26/30m without crossing most obstacles she encounters.
If I want to play a killer who is limited by walls and other physical obstacles, I have the other 29 killers at my disposal.
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"actually there is a way to down in that map, you just would need to walk a lot."
And that sums up how these proposals don't make sense as far as the nurse is concerned.
The nurse doesn't walk, she moves (almost all the time) with her blinks. That's her gamedesign.
And as far as not being able to cross an obstacle multiple times, that would be like allowing a survivor to constantly have the ability to avoid the nurse by staying at a structure angle.
It's not a conclusive idea.
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In a horror game, I think that hearing screams of pain is somehow logical so...😁
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@Brandon48 said:
Yeah her TR needs to be lowered and a lullaby added. Either that or the perk itself (starstruck) should lower the killers TR so its works best when synergised with other perks. One of her blinks should count as a special attack as well.
Also while I’m at it lol, make it rewarding/more possible to stun her, there’s no incentive to do so now.
The problem with reducing the RT for ALL killers is that it will reduce the power of Starstruck for the weaker killers, with whom perk is not an issue; only the RT of the nurse should be reduced, it would be fairer to the other killers ☺️
On the other hand, no, stop with this idea of transforming his M1s into M2s: it seems that you have been traumatized by nurses using Jolt, Sloppy butcher and K.O. 😁
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@The_Krapper said:
I just think if BHVR would spread the gens out a little more on certain maps it would be ok, theres a few maps I could defend the argument on that 3 genning can be broken because of the design and the gen spawn layout, one example is azarovs resting place or however it's spelled, the shape of the map and the way the gens spawn make it too easy because I can pick the side with the most gens and just patrol that one side and not even worry about losing because there's always one side with four gens that are close and it's a bone shaped map so essentially you can stall the game at 2 gens and force them into bad scenarios from there and certain killer abilities amplify this problem, there's a reason why BHVR threatens to ban people over doc camping a 3 gen and just inducing madness and it's not because 3 genning isn't strong it's because the layout plus the killer ability is broken sometimes and you can use that to hold a game hostage instead of actually killing the survivors
"there's a reason why BHVR threatens to ban people over doc camping a 3 gen and just inducing madness"
Let's be clear on this: I am NOT defending players who use the NWTH / Call of brine / Eruption / Overcharge build on the knight (or any killer for that matter) to camp a 3-gen from the start of the game without ever taking a chase.
I'm just wondering about what you just said: what elements could BHVR bring forward to issue this kind of ban?
Because from the killer's point of view, he was just applying an optimal defense strategy.
I agree that this kind of game is more than annoying to live, but how to define the limit between the voluntarily abusive and the valid strategy? At what point can we consider that the player is abusing?
And at what point does a player who protects a zone go from being allowed to being forbidden? How can we define these aspects?
Suppose a survivor wants to chase the killer to a location, and the killer stops following him because he sees that the survivor is trying to chase him away from the generators: does this become punishable behavior? Does this make dropping chase a prohibited behavior?
Again, I am NOT defending the 3-gen knight build's camping at all, I was just wondering.
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Do some people really complain that snowmen make killers undetectable? 🤣
Forgetting that a killer who is hidden in a snowman no longer sees auras?
Forgetting that a killer who is hidden in a snowman moves as fast as a Claudette Morel P3 in a bush?
Forgetting that a killer who is hidden in a snowman can literally do nothing offensive UNLESS he is stuck to a survivor?
Forgetting that a survivor can easily check if a snowman is "empty" by sneaking in from behind, and checking if the game gives him the option to go inside?
Forgetting that as soon as the survivors are in vocal, the snowman becomes a simple entertainment for them?
Are people really complaining about ..... THAT ? 🤣
Are players really complaining about a funny and original game mechanic that brings a touch of unpredictability to a game that hasn't been a horror game at all for a long time?
Please tell me that the players who complain about the snowmen are players who are new to the game, and who are just confused by this new mechanic!
Please don't tell me that they are not ALSO experienced players who are completely unable to adapt to the slightest little thing that requires them to think a little bit more than usual!
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@Forza said:
Nurse violates the normal rules of the game and as such survivors aren't really playing their game against her, they're playing the nurse's game.
And that's fine. But why should the normal rules also apply to the nurse? Instead of all these ideas about changing the way her power works wouldn't it be best to change the way that status effects and aura reading apply to this killer?
My argument is simple. A good nurse player with no perks will perform as well as (if not better) than a good trapper using a meta perk build.
Therefore her strength is primarily in the player's ability to simply land hits with her power and perks do nothing but push her into an overpowering territory.
So some changes that may tone down her power include
- All attacks she makes after blinking are considered special attacks. They don't benefit from exposed or apply status effects like hemorrhage or mangled.
- Her aura reading only apples to her terror radius and works like a permanent object of obsession. When she can see a survivor's aura, they can also see hers.
While I think this will certainly make some nurse builds less viable. Consider for a moment that perks have undergone nerfs and changes specifically because they were too powerful on ONLY this killer. So nurse is impacting design space and lowering the power level of every other killer in the game.
I don't think these changes will impact good nurse players much but will lower her overall power level somewhat. She'll still be a top tier killer but with more counterplay and less snowball ability.
"All attacks she makes after blinking are considered special attacks. They don't benefit from exposed or apply status effects like hemorrhage or mangled."
Turning the nurse's M1 into an M2 would prevent her from being able to use Jolt, Sloppy Butcher and K.O.
There is no reason to prevent her from doing so.
Regarding Starstruck, just remove the nurse's TR when she is carrying a survivor, and the problem is solved.
"Her aura reading only apples to her terror radius and works like a permanent object of obsession. When she can see a survivor's aura, they can also see hers."
So basically, if I understand correctly, the nurse could not have any value on Chili & BBQ, or Floods of rage, etc.?
There's no good reason for this kind of change.
Also, the suggestion to allow survivors to see the nurse's aura if the nurse sees theirs does not make sense.
It allows survivors to see where the nurse is facing and if she charges her tp, it will make the LOS' too strong.
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@behaviourmakesmesad said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3291815#Comment_3291815
How am I supposed to communicate with other survivors? They cant hear me duh....
All considerations and analysis of the nurse's power must be made on the assumption that she is facing a team of vocal survivors 😊
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@FMG15 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3290345#Comment_3290345
No you don't? Her base power is already so strong that she can keep up the pace of full meta survivors and does not need Starstruck or Jolt. Not to mention that she can still use a lot of perks.
As much as I agree on Starstruck, we must not forget that Jolt is controlled by the killer AND by the survivors.
The survivors have a duty to communicate with each other about the location of the generators, the location of the killer, and where they are looping the killer / fixing the generators.
In order to prevent the killer from getting too close to an area where survivors are repairing generators.
Also, it is worth remembering that Jolt no longer has a reload time to prevent survivors from being too greedy on generators and learn a little more to study their strategy rather than stupidly running from generator to generator.
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@Sally_S_gay_son said:
let's say nurse runs agitation starstruck and then bbq and floods of rage so she can see people both when outside her terror radius and inside if she is coming back to the hook and the person gets unhooked
when she picks up the survivor all you have to do is just hold W and run away, even if she sees you on BBQ you should have enough time to outlast starstruck by the time she blinks to you for distance and you can outlast at least one 2 blinks attack by using cover (since by holding w you should basically go to somewhere on the map that is not an open area and hide). If someone else is doing the unhooking she will then see you with floods but at that point starstruck will wear off
In case your teammates were dumb enough to unhook immediately (since they were lo also affected by starstruck if they were close enough to the hook) you are all losing the game regardless since Nurse is the most powerful killer (someone has to be) and will capitalize on these basic survivor mistakes far better than everyone else, but that's not a Nurse problem anymore
I would add that if BHVR removed the map offerings, it would also prevent nurses from using Starstruck by choosing (conveniently) Midwich, The game or Raccoon.
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@FMG15 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3290279#Comment_3290279
The reason Starstruck Nurse is problematic because it synergizes with her already strong power. She is already strong enough and does not need perks that require the usage of basic attacks (She can even make sloppy butcher very opressive since it's very important to stay healthy against her). Just make her blink attacks special attacks instead of adjusting her TR and the Starstruck & Jolt issue is solved. (Also they should make Eruption only trigger by downing a survivor with a basic attack to make Blight and potentially a reworked nurse not synergize with that perk since they already have the strongest power in the game)
Again, there is no good reason to prevent a nurse from using Sloppy Butcher, K.O. or Jolt if she so chooses.
These are only moderately powerful perks, a far cry from the very oppressive builds the nurse can deploy.
So, the proposal we keep hearing about "changing Nurse's M1 to an M2" is neither relevant nor logical.
If you want to remove the "Starstruck" problem, reduce the TR of the nurse when carrying a survivor.
No more, no less.
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3290279#Comment_3290279
How is it a starstruck issue if it’s balanced on literally every other killer but her?
When was the last time you even seen starstruck on someone who wasn’t nurse?
I was saying that in the sense that when it comes to the [Nurse + Starstruck] combo, the problem is not really with the nurse's basekit, but with her use of the perk 😊
The last time I came across a killer, other than the nanny, using Starstruck?
I run into them from time to time, not a lot though; the last one was a week or two ago.
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@GentlemanFridge said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3290279#Comment_3290279
You suggest this on every nurse thread, but they’re never gonna do that. There is absolutely no precedent of any TR being changed simply by carrying a survivor. What you’re suggesting is just a band-aid.
Besides, do you really want to remove her TR entirely? That just allows her to do preposterous backpack builds w/ agitation.
I simply indicate the easiest and fairest way to prevent the nurse from using Starstruck, that's all 😉
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The problem about Nurse + Starstruck is not the nurse, it's Starstruck.
Remove her TR when her carries a survivor and the problem will disappear 🤗
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@RoastedGarlic said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/356457/for-people-that-want-nurse-nerfed
simple really her blink shouldn't work with exposed. It makes her too strong.
Only with Starstruck and NOED. That's the reason why NOED shouldn't exist, and her TR could be reduce to 0 when she's carrying a surv' 😀
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@Adaez said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3282267#Comment_3282267
What i'm saying is that if you nerf her,she would feel fair and counterable even againts the ones that user her to her maximum potential and play her really good.
Right now there is nothing you can do againts a good Nurse because her power in its current state is too strong.
"Right now there is nothing you can do againts a good Nurse(...)"
Yes, make her face a SWF made up of very competent survivors.
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@R1ch4rd_N1x0n said:
Yeah and Trapper shouldn't be able to set traps and Wraith shouldn't be able to turn invisible.
I think the killers should not be able to hit the survivors 🤗
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@burt0r said:
Imagine doubling back over a window or running around a corner becoming the immediate ultimate counter against a worse blight.
Who knows ... maybe in fact, that's what some players want, to make the nurse easier to loop than an M1 killer on Lery 🤣
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@Adaez said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/356457/for-people-that-want-nurse-nerfed
She can only have 1 blink,and have the addon that reveal where she blinks be basekit.
And after she blinks once,her speed goes to 110m/s for 5 seconds after the exhausting effect.
I'm tired of seeing Nurse be soo op,now she can only be op if you are skilled with her.
No, she can' t have only 1 blink.
Against potatoes, yes, it's enough to hit them, but against competent survivors, the 2nd blink is never too much.
And regarding the "so OP" nurses, apart from the Stastruck's build, I invite you to show us the games you fight against her, so we can see how it goes.
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@LuvDaDakka said:
No, her base kit is not fine. Its actually the main reason why she remained the best(by far) killer in the game for so long.
She ignores 90% of the game's chase mechanics - how can that be fine?
At the very least she should earn the ability to blink(like Oni with his power) in some way and once she does it should be limited in use either by time or number of uses(like 4-5 blinks). Of course, her movement speed would need to be buffed to compensate.
The way she is now, playing Nurse is basically cheating.
She ignores 90% of the game's chase mechanics - how can that be fine?
To be accurate, it should be rephrased as follows: "She ignores certain chase's mechanics that apply to other killers, while possessing weaknesses that other killers do not have."
That's her gamedesign, that's just the way she is. Whether you like it or not is one thing, but it's still just an opinion, and that doesn't make it a universal truth.
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@russf10 said:
I think nurses base-kit should be her old addon that you cant teleport through walls but you get 3 blinks. or maybe only her first blink gets to travel through walls but her second doesnt, also make her hits count as normal hits. Nurse is absolutely busted with little to no counterplay, please change her power, the majority of players HATE going against nurses, every time I go against a nurse someone either gives up or dc's and its getting boring AF
Preventing the nurse from going through the walls just goes with his gamedesign.
Preventing her from chaining blinks through walls would make her pathetic in chase, and would allow the survivors to be completely safe from the moment he was more or less close to a door or a junction.
"the majority of players HATE going against nurses, every time I go against a nurse someone either gives up or dc's and its getting boring AF"
For someone to DC and leave 3 survivors against the killer, yes, it's annoying.
However, aside from when the nurse uses a Starstruck's build + Midwich offering, and I totally understand, and agree that one might find the game uninteresting, the DC's we see most of the time are done by players who can't stand getting hooked first, or getting found / hit first, or even who don't want to play against the nurse.
If they don't want to make the effort to see how the game is going to go, they have only themselves to blame.
I do understand if one or more players DC when another has just done so in an early game; when I play on my nurse, I don't mind, and I can't blame him. He can't know how I'm going to play 3V1, and I don't blame him for that.
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@foodie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3281645#Comment_3281645
I mean, at least you get games vs Knight. I can't say the same 😂
Thought I was missing something
Do you ever come across any? 😣
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
- Chain blinks become special attacks. I think it’s ok for the first blink to remain basic though. Weakens Exposed (and Starstruck in particular) but doesn’t completely eliminate perk variety. They shouldn’t nerf Starstruck just to address Nurse; Exposed as a whole is too good on her and Starstruck isn’t overpowered on any other killer.
- Change almost all of her addons. Her best addons are too strong but almost everything else is just bad. Her addons shouldn’t be strong, but she doesn’t need like 3 different addons that are debuffs. Recharge is too strong, range and 3-blink shouldn’t exist at all. I would be okay with even reducing the base recharge slightly (0.15-0.2 seconds per blink) provided that yellow recharge is removed and green recharge is nerfed, because admittedly it does feel quite slow without recharge addons, but you shouldn’t be able to recharge 2 blinks in 4 seconds. It doesn’t punish mistakes enough.
- This might be an unpopular opinion, but I don’t think she should be able to see auras of survivors while blinking. The two most important counters to Nurse are breaking LOS and keeping distance from her as much as possible. Aura reading perks heavily reduce LOS counterplay and the survivor typically can’t predict that until it’s too late, unless they have something that gives it away (eg. Object or Distortion). It’s okay before she uses her power, but it should stop when she’s ready to go for a blink.
- Stuns reset blink charges (and they don’t start recharging until the stun ends). Pallet stuns are rare against Nurse and aren’t rewarding enough, and it would make DS give the survivor more of a fighting chance against her. Right now DS is pretty useless against a good Nurse.
Chain blinks become special attacks. I think it’s ok for the first blink to remain basic though. Weakens Exposed (and Starstruck in particular) but doesn’t completely eliminate perk variety. They shouldn’t nerf Starstruck just to address Nurse; Exposed as a whole is too good on her and Starstruck isn’t overpowered on any other killer.
By turning the second blink into a special attack, it prevents Nurse from using Jolt, Sloppy Butcher, Knockout, etc., and there is no reason to prevent her from using them.
Even leaving the first blink as a basic attack doesn't change much.
The first blink is used in almost all situations to get closer to a target, it is the second blink that is used to hit.
Regarding Starstruck, it would indeed be unfair to nerf this perk because of the nurse 👍️
That's why you just have to remove the nurse's terror radius when she's carrying a survivor, and that way, no more worries with Starstruck 😊
Concerning the exposed perks, the most dangerous are NOED, Starstruck and Devour hope.
If we assume that NOED is a perk that I don't even understand the existence of, and that the "Starstruck" problem can be avoided thanks to TR, there is only Devour hope as a really dangerous exposed perk 😉
"Change almost all of her addons. Her best addons are too strong but almost everything else is just bad. Her addons shouldn’t be strong, but she doesn’t need like 3 different addons that are debuffs. Recharge is too strong, range and 3-blink shouldn’t exist at all. I would be okay with even reducing the base recharge slightly (0.15-0.2 seconds per blink) provided that yellow recharge is removed and green recharge is nerfed, because admittedly it does feel quite slow without recharge addons, but you shouldn’t be able to recharge 2 blinks in 4 seconds. It doesn’t punish mistakes enough."
Its range and recharge addons are not too strong.
As a reminder, from the moment a nurse is within 24/26/30m of you if she uses the yellow/green range addon/both, it's like facing a nurse without addons.
Concerning the 3-blink addon, if it was "that strong", you think that all the sweaty nurses would use it permanently; I don't think that's the case.
It not only adds the recharge time of the 3rd blink, it also decreases the recharge speed of the blinks, which makes recharging all 3 blinks in chase quite complicated.
"It doesn't punish mistakes enough"
Against survivors not being very strong, maybe, but a game against a nurse is not 1V1, even though it is quite possible to hold a good nurse quite well.
This might be an unpopular opinion, but I don’t think she should be able to see auras of survivors while blinking. The two most important counters to Nurse are breaking LOS and keeping distance from her as much as possible. Aura reading perks heavily reduce LOS counterplay and the survivor typically can’t predict that until it’s too late, unless they have something that gives it away (eg. Object or Distortion). It’s okay before she uses her power, but it should stop when she’s ready to go for a blink.
You said it yourself: distortion allows to cancel this kind of advantage.
I would add that, even if of course, seeing auras allows the nurse to make very precise tp's, and to surprise the survivors, some are obviously less efficient than others.
Bitter Murmur : The perk only specifies the location of the survivors next to the generator; in most cases, simply returning to the generator will show where they are.
Deerstalker : No need to explain how this aura reading is weak.
Shadowborn : Only specifies the location of the survivors; since they are survivors who tried to blind the killer, they are always near his position.
A Nurse's calling : This perk can be quite easily countered if not used with Monitor & abuse; and even with this combo, it is enough to move away enough, so that the aura is no longer visible. It can be very useful in indoor maps.
Barbecue & Chili : probably the "lowest best" aura perk. It can be countered with distortion, lockers or by being close to the hook. Moreover, even without that, it is only active from 40m.
Rancor : same as with Bitter Murmur: an organized team will be able to stay in difficult to reach places during the 3s that the perk lasts. The perk can bait them when it's first activated because after that, the obsession will have communicated to its team the fact that the killer has Rancor.
I'm all ears : one of the most formidable aura perks the nurse can use. Very efficient and dangerous.
Retribution : very usefull, especially when combined with Haunted ground and/or a totem build. The only weakness of this perk is that it is activated by a survivor's action. Survivors can therefore prepare for it.
Undying : Disappears once the totem is destroyed; but since it makes sense to couple Undying with a totem build, can potentially be quite dangerous.
Lethal Pursuer : Particularly dangerous in indoors maps; its effectiveness is relative on large maps (I'm talking about its early game effect).
Floods of rage : Very powerful when coupled with MYC, unless the dehook occurs when the nurse is already chasing someone else; FOR is still a very versatile perk though, as it can be used for distance tracking, or more precise tracking, during a chase.
Darkness revealed : Very situational. Extremely powerful on Midwich, very powerful on Raccoon, moderately powerful on the other maps. Assuming that (in my opinion) players should not be able to choose which map they will play on, I would not risk using this perk with the nurse.
Awakened awareness : Also situational: since the aura disappears at the time of the hook, it is quite easy to counteract its aura reading.
Nowhere to hide : one of the bests aura reading perks the nurse can use.
Stuns reset blink charges (and they don’t start recharging until the stun ends). Pallet stuns are rare against Nurse and aren’t rewarding enough, and it would make DS give the survivor more of a fighting chance against her. Right now DS is pretty useless against a good Nurse.
The best solution would be to increase the DS duration by 1s.
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To deprive the nurse of Starstruck, simply reduce her TR to 1m when carrying a survivor 😃
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It is not being in SWF that makes survivors strong; it is the fact that said SWF is composed of experienced survivors.
Have 4 people play, in vocal, on accounts with all the items, all the accessories, all the offerings and all the perks ... if those 4 people are newbies who have only 10 hours of play on DbD ... they will get destroyed by a Piggy.
To say that "SWF = unstoppable team" is wrong.
I know quite a few people I play SWF with, and yet some of them may have hundreds and hundreds of hours on the game (if not at least a thousand), they will still sacrifice the shack palette first, still don't know the concept of 3-gens, and don't communicate important aspects of the game during the game, when it's not just bringing the killer back to the people who make the generators. As for the chase, it doesn't even last 10s.
So yes, they are SWFs. But it doesn't mean anything. What matters is the composition of the SWF.
If you run into 4 people, 3 of whom are beginners, you can have the 4th one down. The same goes for 2/2.
The fact of communicating does bring an advantage, but if it is exploited by players who are not good in DbD, the result will be inefficient.
And if not, concerning the fact of having a team which would not take duplicate perks, one could imagine a system which, when it detects that the team of 4 is composed of all different perks, rewards each member by doubling, for example, the BP obtained? 🤗
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As for my games against the knight, I noticed that many of them tend to be extremely lazy and camp / proxi camp in early game.
If that kind of player comes by this forum, and reads this thread, I feel like telling you: first learn how to win without camping the first survivor you catch, and then you can play the Knight. The Knight doesn't deserve to be played by idiots who misrepresent what he is: a great killer, original, and frankly interesting to play.
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That would just be hilarious.
When you see how funny it is to see him running, being behind him, wiggling his ass, I can only imagine what it would be like if he could tbag 🤣
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The censoring of the endgame chat is the most absurd thing DbD has.
BHVR, if you are reading this, please: make this censorship an OPTION that the player can turn on or off at will.
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@Gamall said:
I hope so, I think it should never have existed this perk
Distorsion value 🤗
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@I_CAME said:
Trolling aside I have no idea how anyone enjoys playing nurse at this point. Every game is just survivors asking you to kill them and/or immediate dcing. People actively refuse to play against her in my solo games. I was playing with my casual friend last night and the game's completely functional MMR system put us against a prestige 100 Nurse with a full meta build. The two randoms just immediately gave up. It's non gameplay.
So I have to deduce that my PC, every time I start a game as a nurse, connects to an alternative reality.
Because of the quality of my games, I hardly encounter any DC or suicide.
I'm not saying that it doesn't exist, of course, I was just pointing out the exaggerated side of the generalization you make 🤨
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@Monlyth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3277123#Comment_3277123
Were we watching the same video? I saw a matchup that only became remotely fair when the rules forced Alf to gimp himself on perks. Not just forgoing Starstruck, but also running deeply suboptimal gen slowdown perks.
The Flashlight plays barely slowed the Nurse down. What I see is that even Survivors at the absolute pinnacle of player skill still can't consistently dodge the Nurse.
And no wonder; when you go down is entirely up to the Nurse.
As I said, the games where Supaalf uses Starstruck are not interesting for the analysis 🤔
You have to look at their games where he used other perks, and see how not using Starstruck tilts the balance in favor of Hens333's team.
It should also be remembered that Hens333 and his team were not at full strength. They were not using the biggest items and accessories in the game, and their build, although interesting, was limited.
Finally ... I wonder what to think of what Hens himself says under his video, namely "Playing against nurse with my team is actually fun" ... I guess I'll be told he's lying 😁
And, concerning the flashlight: yes, it is very useful against the nurse. If used correctly, it will force the nurse to fall into a state of fatigue, making her lose precious seconds.
If the player in question is also a good nurse looper, and is part of a fast and efficient team, the value that can be gained from it is absolutely not insignificant.
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@Roaroftime said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3276804#Comment_3276804
I play her when I'm fed up of being bullied on killer by SWF's and want an easy 3k-4k easily. She cannot be countered by "mind games" they'll get you an extra 3 seconds max before she just teleports to your new location.
I would be interested to see, in video, those games you do, when you play the nurse, and you do 3k-4k.
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@SensualShamus said:
Yes, this is the 100000000th time someone has said this. Don't understand why it is so hard for the devs to actually do something about this killer. Who is sleeping with her? Every game it's an insta dc.
"Every game it's an insta dc."
What do you mean ? Who did the DC ? You ? In early game ?
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@Roaroftime said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3276380#Comment_3276380
Mind elaborating and spare us the "line of sight blockers" excuse they increase a chase against nurse by 5 seconds max
Concerning the theoretical aspect, it's a mix of several things, which have been detailed and explained several times on this forum.
However, for the practical aspect, I refer, for example, to the recent videos of Supaalf and Hens333, during their confrontation; I think in particular of the parts where Supaalf does not use the famous "Starstruck's build" (which in my opinion has no reason to be, I am part of those who agree to prevent the nurse from being able to use Starstruck) 😃
We can see Hens333's team managing to stand up to Supaalf, especially thanks to the very clever use of the flashlight 😀
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@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3276239#Comment_3276239
Oh i don´t doubt that. BUT the same survivor could buy the rest of the team 2 hook stages and a minute of extra gen time. Which could make all the difference for the others.
Suiciding at 5 gens makes it almost impossible to recover for the other 3 survivors. Just like against every other killer.
"Suiciding at 5 gens makes it almost impossible to recover for the other 3 survivors. Just like against every other killer."
Completely! That's why I was wondering if the games in which there is a DC are counted for the killrate of the killer.
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@Roaroftime said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3276239#Comment_3276239
And that is because there is no way to deal with nurse, she ignores all counter mechanics in the game i.e., pallets and vaults and even holding W
Yes, of course there are ways to deal with the nurse; but that was not the point.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3276174#Comment_3276174
No problem 😋
What i mean is that suicides do count towards kill rates. So all the survivors that suicide on first hook at 5 gens are not only dooming their teammates, but also inflating her kill rate. But despite that, she still has one of the lowest kill rates.
Means she isn´t as unbeatable as everyone claims.
I think it's reasonable to say that a survivor who commits suicide at 5 gens is a survivor who doesn't know how to deal with a nurse effectively.
Chances are, in the end, he's going to die, no matter what.
EVEN IF, indeed, he could have escaped "by chance", quite.
Yes, the suicides probably increase her killrate, but not drastically, I think.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3276089#Comment_3276089
Could you underline where i said DCs?
My bad, I I read too fast 🤣
So, what did you mean when you talked about suicides and its killrate?
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@Tsulan said:
And yet... despite all the suicides... she still has one of the lowest kill rates.
Let that sink in.
I don't know exactly what you're getting at, but DCs are not counted in her killrate, and I don't even know if the games in which a DC occurs are counted or not.
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@katoptris said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/B1NZBGH6PBXR/34e3a4d2eab19dd597e4e8ba1dff7424.png
Female cenobite where are thou?
I prefer the first version of this female cenobite, when it was Grace Kirby who played her 🤗
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@EvilSerje said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3276038#Comment_3276038
Everything is unhealthy in computer game that fun for only one person. Why others have to spend their free time for something unfun? Continuing your thought: cheating is fun for cheater; bodyblocking, unhookspamming, etc. fun for troll.
Garden of Joy, Game and especially last map are healthy, because it's easy for survivors to escape and do goal.
SWF + 4 medkits + CoH is healty, because it's easy for survivors to bully killer and escape.
I could continue.
I don't understand, is it swollen ego or avoiding any thought process that allow one to think that anyone around are paid actors or AI npc, that are only purpose to please that player?
Simple answer in two words.
Hypocrisy + selfishness.
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@Crowman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3275929#Comment_3275929
There's nothing unhealthy about tunneling. Dbd is an elimination game. The goal for the killer is to kill survivor. It does not matter how they do that.
The same. Give us your nickname, and all Bubba will be very happy to come and hardtunnel and camp you 😍
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@Seraphor said:
In a vacuum, Nurse is fine. High skill floor, low kill rate amongst general players.
Her problem is when it comes to balancing general killer perks and effects. Perks can't be too strong on Nurse, which typically results in them being too weak on M1 killers.
Some things that could bring her down to the level of other killers without adversely affecting her power fantasy:
- Make an attack within 1s of a Blink count as a Special Attack. Common suggestion, there are issues, but if it's not 'every attack' and it has this 1s or 0.75s or whatever qualifier, it could work. Still allowing an M1 post blink attack if timed correctly.
- When stunned, her power charges reset, and she is inflicted with a short 10-15s debuff to power recharge rate so that a charge takes 4 or 5s instead of 3s. This would prevent her from getting another blink immediately after a stun, and would allow more skilled survivors (the ones usually facing the best Nurses) a decent counter to her power.
- A build-up mechanism, like Oni or Nemesis. Perhaps Nurse starts with 1 Blink charge and 4m/s walking speed. Each unique survivor hooked grants you a 'Stolen Breath' and upon getting 2 or 3 Stolen Breaths you upgrade from 1 Blink to 2 Blinks, and reduces walking speed to 3.85m/s. Add-ons could interact with this mechanism, maybe having a 3rd/4th Stolen Breath unlock the 3rd Blink charge instead of increasing power recharge time. Give 'Stolen Breaths' a UI display so you know which survivors have been 'stolen'.
- Nerf range add-ons. Green to +2m, Purple to +4m with 40% increased charge time and duration.
" Make an attack within 1s of a Blink count as a Special Attack. Common suggestion, there are issues, but if it's not 'every attack' and it has this 1s or 0.75s or whatever qualifier, it could work. Still allowing an M1 post blink attack if timed correctly."
In fact, turning the nurse's basic attacks into special attacks would prevent her from using certain perks, which are not overly strong on her (Sloppy butcher, Jolt, K.O.), and there is no real reason to prevent her from using these perks 😉
"When stunned, her power charges reset, and she is inflicted with a short 10-15s debuff to power recharge rate so that a charge takes 4 or 5s instead of 3s. This would prevent her from getting another blink immediately after a stun, and would allow more skilled survivors (the ones usually facing the best Nurses) a decent counter to her power."
This is already the case, currently; if, for example during a blink, you manage to stop the nurse with a pallet (stun her, I mean), she will have to reload the blink(s) she consumed before being stunned. It would be very detrimental to her in some situations where the survivor is right next to a complex structure to inflict an additional malus.
" A build-up mechanism, like Oni or Nemesis. Perhaps Nurse starts with 1 Blink charge and 4m/s walking speed. Each unique survivor hooked grants you a 'Stolen Breath' and upon getting 2 or 3 Stolen Breaths you upgrade from 1 Blink to 2 Blinks, and reduces walking speed to 3.85m/s. Add-ons could interact with this mechanism, maybe having a 3rd/4th Stolen Breath unlock the 3rd Blink charge instead of increasing power recharge time. Give 'Stolen Breaths' a UI display so you know which survivors have been 'stolen'."
This would not be viable; when you see how easy it is to loop killers running at 4.4m/s around most structures, I can't even imagine what it would be like with a 4.0 killer.
Also, getting a second blink via a hook implies that "you have to hit someone twice to get a 2nd blink".
However, the very principle of the nurse is to use his first blink to move / get closer to his target, and the 2nd, to attack.
You can indeed hit a survivor with 1 blink, but it's still quite rare, even the best nurses validate their attacks with a 2nd one most of the time.
As for the range addons, they are not really a problem.
Two things need to be considered:
- first, even if the nurse uses the 2 range addons, her recharge time is the same as a nurse who uses no addons;
- if we put this in parallel with the fact that a nurse with the 2 range addons only gets value when she blinks at more than 20m, this means that when we look at the heart of the chase; at less than 20m, therefore; facing a nurse who uses the 2 range addons is the same as facing a nurse without addons.
In the same way, when facing a nurse who uses the purple/green range addon, if she is within 26/24m, it is the same as facing a nurse who does not use a range addon.
On the other hand, I completely agree that range addons will allow the nurse to patrol more effectively; but it is not the patrol that determines her dangerousness, it is her behavior during a chase.
When the range addons increased the speed of the nurse's blink, yes, it was indeed a problem; but now it is not the case anymore.