Little_Kitten
Little_Kitten
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@Geiz said:
As the upcoming midchapter is coming with some changes in Nurse, I have come to a conclusion that she will be still oppressive and will still counter most if not all anti-tunneling perks such as Decisive Strike and instead of buffing DS for example, we could make a change would reward a survivor for playing well against Nurse. So why? Nurse still counters every mechanic of loop and stunning her does not help you gain that much of time to get a little far from her because she can catch you again with just one blink.
So I believe Nurse should suffer from any kind of stun a little longer than other killers (which suffers way more from that mechanic). Pallet stun (or even Head On stun) against her would be more rewarding and using DS against her would be more viable. That change would make Nurse not much weaker.
Other change is to make flashlight stun (which is very hard to do against her) a little more rewarding (either being a longer stun or a little easier than nowadays) but no idea how it could affect Nurse in a way it wouldn't be really bad how it is to Wraith.
In order for the bully squad not to take over this kind of locker buff, why not reward the players who face the nurse in a more neutral way?
Some time ago, I had the idea to reward players who play against the most powerful killers of DbD (Nurse, Blight, Spirit) with an extra BP gain 🤗
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@Seraphor said:
Map offerings should have been killer only from the start (and hidden). You're in the entities realm after all. Bit late now to change it without an uproar though.
Even if your proposal makes sense in relation to the lore of DbD, it would be, from a fairness point of view, unfair that only the killer could have the opportunity to choose the map 😣
On the other hand, I hope that one day, these offerings will be reworked, and will have the opposite effect.
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@BabyCameron10 said:
I think it is an underrated chase perk but the big cool-down doesn’t let the perk reach its full potential.
As of right now, the perk can only be triggered every 40 seconds.
My suggestion is to decrease the cool-down to 20 or 25 seconds, that’s it.
I don’t think I am not asking for much. It is one of my favorite perks that suffers from its long cool-down. The same can be said about Oppression.
An argument in favor of this request is the fact that in addition to cooldown, this is a perk that can easily be cancelled by Distorsion.
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It is obvious that a phobia is neither fun nor pleasant, and we can only hope that people who have one will be able to work on it to move forward.
However, what would James Cameron say if someone with aquaphobia criticized his film and asked him to release a version in which all the shots in which the ocean appears would be removed?
What would James Wan say if someone who had been kidnapped and tortured attacked his film (Saw) and said that it was necessary to remove all the passages about these things?
HOWEVER, if it is an option, and its activation is fully up to the player, I have nothing against it.
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@SmolBlob said:
The easier solution is to just make hook suicide impossible in the first place.
Make self-unhooking only possible with Deliverance. Slippery Meat/Luck get reworked. Struggle phase skillchecks only count for Bloodpoints.
Problem solved. The rabid entitled defenses of suiciding on hook in this thread are pathetic. Don’t queue up if you aren’t going to play it out.
"They’ll just AFK or sandbag instead" Oh nooo, whatever will we do? I can’t believe they ruined the match by AFK/sandbagging instead of… ruining the match by ragequitting. Oh nooo, so much of a difference! AFK should be given DC penalty anyways. Sandbagging is outright bannable already if you’re too obvious.
"It’ll kill the playerbase" Yep, which is why every other big game with proper DC penalties and no stupid loophole around it is dead and no one plays it. Imagine parroting a point so blatantly laughably incorrect.
"The rabid entitled defenses of suiciding on hook in this thread are pathetic. Don’t queue up if you aren’t going to play it out."
If for you, not wanting to stay a second longer in a game where the opponent shows a severe lack of sportsmanship, it is pathetic ... then yes..... I am and will remain pathetic, and I am not ashamed to say so (of course, killers who behave in a truly obnoxious manner are fortunately not the majority of my games).
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Some Bubba camp in the basement.
But they are usurpers.
The real Bubba don't need that to win.
So, you too, be a real Bubba 😍
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1) I play for fun. I don't mind being killed by a killer who masters his character and against whom I have no chance, as long as he doesn't play like a #########
But sorry, if I see a big Bubba (for ex) hardcore camping me, I move on to the next game. That's it.
I only stay if I'm playing with my team, so they can make the maximum BP.
By not doing my QTE, I penalize the other players? Honestly, I don't care. The same way I never resent a mate (who I don't know, when I play soloQ) who commits suicide because the killer plays like a ######### and hardcore tunnel/camp. It's just a game.
2) Ban players who "commit suicide".
Ok.
How can you prove that it was an intentional action?
You can't.
"But yes, it had to be intentional, come on!"
Okay, proof of that? Were you at their house? Behind their PC? Did you film them not pressing the "Space" key?
Amen;
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The purpose of a game is not to set up the players' phobias, nor to act as a therapy.
The goal of a horror game is to offer content that correlates with the theme.
Because if it does, they're going to have work to do.
Acarophobia (Adiris)
Achluophobia (Dredge)
Achmophobia (All killers with a weapon such as a knife)
Bacillophobia (Adiris)
Coulrophobia (Clown)
Dysmorphophobia (Dredge / Blight / Billy)
Ecclesiophobia (Crotus Prenn)
Germophobia (Adiris)
Hematophobia (The whole game)
Hylophobia (Red Forest / Mc Millan)
Machairophobia (All killers with a weapon such as a knife)
Maskaphobia (Legion / Bubba (?))
Mysophobia (Adiris .... again)
Necrophobia (The Game / Borgo ...)
Nosocomephobia (Lery)
Nosophobia (Adiris ... the return of revenge)
Thanathopobia (Need an explanation ?)
It reminds me of one time, the Dredge had just arrived in game, and a player had complained about being uncomfortable with his sound design because of the whining and voices you hear in the background when playing against it.
If gamers are sensitive to this sort of thing, it's up to them to avoid games/movies that JUST potentially deal with this sort of thing.
DbD is a game about death, horror, and danger.
And it's normal to see death, horror, and danger.
I would add that over time, DbD has become more of an e-sports hide-and-seek game than a horror game, and it's actually very satisfying to see some elements that remind the player that the original theme was horror (Dredge).
I can't wait for them to create another REALLY creepy and horrific killer.
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@stvnhthr said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3318059#Comment_3318059
SWF is an option and not the default play mode. Most players are solo ques so why punish the majority of players to benefit the few?
"so why PUNISH the majority of players"
I must admit that having to wait a little while is a terrible punishment, which nobody in the world would know how to face... 🤣
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@Sparxlost said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3316652#Comment_3316652
id rather have one more normal killer than this current gameplay abomination...
I really like the way you use exaggeration to give the impression that as soon as the nurse arrives in game, it's the end of the world 🤣
After a while it gets a bit ridiculous; train, get some main nurses to train you, play with competent survivors, play together, progress, it will be better than complaining in such an absurd way 😉
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@Sparxlost said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3316481#Comment_3316481
Except that nurse can blink through walls and entire structures as well instantly putting her her waaay above wesker in terms of that...
look
all this change does is make it so that nurse isnt gauranteed to win.... because anyone with half a brain would tell you that nurse is practically a gauranteed win and outshines most if not all killers in terms of ease....
The nurse is sure to win if, indeed, she faces survivors who don't bother to operate their brains at more than half their potential 😁
Even if she uses her two recharge addons at the same time, the nurse is not guaranteed to win every time* ... well, that's if the other side plays smart and organized, of course ....
*I'm not referring to the nurses who use Starstruck or anything like that, of course
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@White_Owl said:
In my experience landing the second blink with Nurse is much harder than the first, so exposed builds on her made her incredibly easier. Without that surge of wannabes Nurse-mains that relied on that, we'll be left with true Nurse-mains (that were always terrifying, slowdown or no slowdown) and bad Nurse players who struggle to land that second blink, and thus can't use well slowdown perks. All in all I think she will return to a pre-Starstruck state.
I don't understand, what are you talking about when you say : "(...) landing the second blink (...) is much harder than the first, etc." ?
I don't understand exactly what you mean in your post 🤔😯
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Another M1 killer moving at 4.6?
No, thanks, really.
There are 29 of them in the game, and it would be much more interesting to release, as new killers, other killers with the same type of movement as the nurse.
What makes the Nurse so enjoyable and special to play is her teleportation.
This rework concept is neither interesting nor useful.
The nurse can already be in trouble now, even with her range/recharge addons, and even more so when 6.5.0 is released.
It's just a matter of the players who play her getting better, and stop complaining all the time.
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@woundcowboy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3316244#Comment_3316244
Sure, but the reality is that it’s not and is probably impossible to balance that way. My main point was that it’s a mistake that so many people label that style of play as being unskillful. If it wins, it doesn’t matter
Obviously, there is no such thing as a perfect game; and besides, camping/tunneling is not a problem and is completely justified in some cases; in fact, it's really when the killer goes into hard camp and tunnels someone for the entire game that it's a behavior that reeks of relentlessness.
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@drsoontm said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3315827#Comment_3315827
I wouldn't say happy. I'm almost neutral about it though.
I've played several games as Nurse recently, to check survivors in a perk-less addon-less Nurse (my goal wasn't to win, even if I've killed several teams)
Some survivors, even with less than 1K hours, are pretty good at it (I've past 3K hours). Today, one was so good I was wondering if she was cheating : she could always guess where I would land, even when I tossed a coin myself, and was gaining more distance I would expect ... but it may just be my paranoia (A side effect of going against so many cheaters so often). It was easier to get her without blinking, which I did.
I will not be affected by the nerf, but I suspect Nurse will become inaccessible to many new players.
What was her kill rate in the last statistics? Because it will most likely go down. However, I don't think the players who can't handle the Nurse now will fare much better after the nerf : they will still to know the counters, mind-game and think fast.
It's funny, but I can totally relate to your mention of this "paranoia" ... it's true that sometimes I think, "No but wait ... I just gave him the secret technique of the ultimate bluff, kept secret for over 50 years ... it HAD to work!" 🤣
At the moment, since the PTB has just closed, I do like you, as far as I am concerned , I only use the addons allowing to be undetectable after a hit, and the one that makes the survivors scream, because it's the ones that are the closest to the addons that the nurse will have at his disposal, in the 6.5.0; the least we can say is that even if during some games, we feel the difference with the reloads / range addon, in the end, the muscle memory adapts very quickly, and now, I don't pay attention to it anymore 😉
As for his killrate, I don't know how it will behave ... in fact, it would be interesting to know the proportion of nurses who are really beginners, because a decent nurse will have no problem to adapt to the new addons 😀
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3315820#Comment_3315820
I dont know, most Nurse-games dont feel like they have worthy opponents.
Personally, I run: Shadowborn (learned her with Shadowborn and cannot remove it...), BBQ, Lethal Pursuer and Floods of Rage. So basically trying to be in a chase all the time. Even tho, I am thinking about removing Floods of Rage and run Nowhere to Hide instead. I dont like Genkicking, but I used Nowhere to Hide on Huntress recently (before I tried Darkness Revealed, but Nowhere to Hide is just better) and it is such a great Perk.
Did you try "I'm all ears" with the nurse ? 😍
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@HugTheHag said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3315831#Comment_3315831
All things considered, I'm looking forward to facing them =)
Impredictability and the fact that she's actually a killer you have to lose, to mindgame, to confuse makes her one of my favourite to go against. You don't just run or loop. It's fun !
Plus at average level, most Nurses I meet are really nice. I'd definitely more bitter if those first Nurses I faced when I was a baby survivor hadn't been some of the most encouraging players I've met.
My god ...
A player who considers novelty and difficulty as elements of challenge, motivation and improvement of his skills ???? 😱😱😱
IT STILL EXISTS ON THIS EARTH.
I regain faith in humanity.
Thanks 😭😭😭
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@HugTheHag said:
4 slowdown is its own problem, but Nurse's kit was fine in my opinion.
Beyond nerfing the exposed playstyle, I'm a bit nervous about the "6 Blink Nurse" they made now.
I always had fun going against Nurse before (except the odd Starstruck Midwich offering kind, which was not so common for me), and I think a lot of her new addons sound super fun, but that's gonna be something new to learn.
"and I think a lot of her new addons sound super fun, but that's gonna be something new to learn."
EXACTLY.
"new to learn"
That's what I find to be the charm of her back-blink addon.
We're going to have a nurse who will be able to go less far, and less "fast" (20m max instead of 24/26/30m), but in return, who will be more unpredictable during short distance chases; and having played against nurses on the PTB, I must admit that I really like the unpredictability that this new addon allows her to have, which, frankly, is not a deus ex machina either.
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@Vagab0ndCat said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3315623#Comment_3315623
True, DBD wouldnt release her now, they'd be too busy releasing absolutely handicapped survivo- ehm, "killers" like Knight that scream "we care for survivor fun more than killer fun!"
She is a relic of the past because she is actually one of the very few killers that survivors actually fear, which is how it should be for literally every killer in the game.
What you say reminds me of what someone (I don't remember who) said that made a lot of sense:
"The goal of survivor is NOT to win in 1V1 against a killer.
The goal of the survivor is to make the killer lose as much time as possible before getting hooked."
The fact is that as time has passed, survivors have learned to develop techniques to keep distance from the killer.
Mind you, I'm not saying this isn't right, it just makes perfect sense !
Except that most of them forgot to take into account that the nurse does not have exactly the same movement pattern as the other killers...
And so, instead of thinking : "Ok, this killer moves differently, I'll adapt", well ...
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@VikingDragonXii said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3315639#Comment_3315639
Mandy has already said they will never rework her power to something else because the time it would take to make a new power develope it then test it andbmake changes would be better used making a new Killer or do much more needed fixes to the game.
And they are right.
At some point, we should perhaps face reality.
The nurse is and will always be the most powerful killer in the game, and that's fine.
But it's still a killer you can get away with (I'm not talking about Starstruck's nurse), even with double recharge addon.
So, it will remain a killer against which you can do well, once her recharge and range addons are gone.
It's up to the players to do something about it, and instead of complaining every morning that the nurse is too strong, to become better : watch tutorials, train with nurses in private games, record their own games as soon as they fall against a nurse, then watch, replay and analyze the games in question, to know what they did wrong, and how they can improve.
I'm not blindly defending the nurse, I'm happy that she can't use Starstruck and NOED anymore, but it shouldn't be abused either.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
The actual problem is that Nurse is still too strong and a relic of the past which really should not exist like that. You always have to ask - would DBD release a Killer like her nowadays? And the answer is a clear "No".
And well, naturally Killers switch to as much Slowdown as possible, because it is the easiest way to play Killer. You drag out the game, which means less ressources, which means easier chases, which results in more Downs, followed by more Slowdown and so on. And honestly, if you need 20 minutes to kill 4 Survivors, who are most likely better than you, you should not win.
Last but not least - for me, nothing will change. I play Nurse with my Build, which is full Aura Read (except for Shadowborn). And I mostly go against Nurses who already stack Slowdown a lot and a Starstruck-Nurse is quite a rarity. (Because, again - stacking Slowdown is easier, so more players go for that... Even on Nurse)
"is still too strong and a relic of the past which really should not exist like that"
Your "relic from the past that shouldn't exist", if it falls against a team of competent and organized survivors, it will have a worthy opponent, which will make for a really interesting game 😋
And I'm talking about a nurse with a double recharge addon 🙂
After that, of course, the survivors have to be competent and organized but that's up to them 😎
That said, the full aura reading build is very satisfying to play, on the nurse! 😍
Since there is no slowdown perk, you can only rely on your speed and accuracy, which makes it an excellent training 🤗
By the way, which aura reading perks do you prefer ?
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@healsoflove718 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3314976#Comment_3314976
been watching dbd on youtube/twitch for years, but decided to play recently. 200 hrs on record lol
The more you play, the more you will know / understand the game; and the more you will see why what you initially thought in your post does not represent a problem 😊
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@healsoflove718 said:
- Why are hooks so close to each other?? It encourages camping & tunneling!!! If it's not balanced, make hooks further apart and increase wiggle to balance it out.
- Why do 60% of killers have no terror radius?? If that's the case, survivors shouldn't have scratch marks OR instead, give us a perk that allows us to leave no scratch marks behind with a CD.
- A lot of survivor perks are countered with blindness... why bother making those perks to begin with? They're useless. Every perk you bring in should count for SOMETHING, otherwise, it's a used perk taking up space doing nothing. These counters are ridiculous and make the game NOT FUN! We put in a lot of game time/hours leveling our characters just to find out that the perk we wanted DOESN'T WORK!!!
- Killers that can instantly kill you or 1 shot you? NOT FUN. I just die on the hook. If ONE survivor alone can't do an instant generator, instant open chest, instant anything, killers shouldn't either. Then, you add into account that hooks are so close to each other, smaller maps, it's easy for killers and solo survivors it's a nightmare. In matches where killers just one shot me, I kill myself on hook and move on to the next game which makes me feel really bad for the rest of my solo survivor team but if I'm not having fun, forget it... it's not worth it.
- Create a special slot for both killers and survivors such as a specialty perk slot. For survivors, create unique customization which allows the survivor to become proficient in a particular ability such as healing, totem finder/cleanser, or some sort of buffs that each survivor can bring into the game with their 4 added perks. The same thing goes for killers, killers can have a unique perk slot where it gives them haste, or added buffs to down survivors. So, in the end, you have ONE special ability/specialty and your 4 added perks. OR make exhaustion perks ONE special ability with 4 perks that you can bring into the game.
How many hours have you in DbD ?
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I think (tell me what you think) that the following changes will make private games more valuable 😊
In the same way that it is possible to choose, in the characteristics of the game, the map, it would be interesting to be able to choose:
- is the hatch open from the start (even in a 1V1)?
- number of generators to repair (yes, it could give absolutely hilarious troll games, with for example 1V4, but only 1 generator to repair 🤣)
- total number of generators in the game (wanna a little bit hardtime ? 😂)
- number of hooks available (wanna a little bit hardtime, killer ? 😂)
- amount of fog
- activation / deactivation of the loss of health segments. which would allow training in 1V1 against a killer, without wasting time healing. during a hit; the survivor would still have their speed boost, their noclip, and the killer would still have their post-hit animation.
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@b4gr1m said:
If a Nurse uses a Blink Attack, her Blinks don't start recharging until 1.5/2 seconds into the fatigue. This would create a little bit of counterplay where survivors can try to get you to swing and miss, and it gives survivors a little more time to get away. Thoughts?
Edit: I think the best way to do this is to make it 2 seconds default and 1.5 seconds with wooden horse.
"This would create a little bit of counterplay"
The nurse already has counterplay.
Especially since with her nerf, it's more important.
It's up to the survivors to train and become better.
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Instead of having offerings allowing you to go to such and such a map, it would be so much more interesting to have offerings allowing you NOT to go to such and such a map.
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Like some of my colleagues, it will depend on how the game goes.
Let's start from the fact that "give the hatch", it means "I managed to put down the last survivor before he found the hatch" or "I closed the hatch, and I managed to find the last survivor before he opens a way out" (the two are actually the same thing, somewhere).
As long as a survivor is not toxic, I do not rule out letting him out through the hatch or the exit door.
I will also have a much easier time letting out one or more survivors with whom I would have had funny, troll interactions, and who will have allowed for a few seconds to install moments of amnesty.
Some examples of situations I have experienced.
- after starting the game, I see a survivor in the distance; I get closer, I blink (I am main nurse); and when I arrive, I see that he was against the set, and suddenly he can't get out, because my blink miraculously arrived in front of him, in such a way that he is stuck between the set and me 🤣
We looked at each other for a few seconds, I looked him up and down, he crouched down and turned in place, and finally, I moved out of the way, he climbed out while still crouching, I I nodded, and I started the chase 😄
I burst out laughing, and just that little moment allowed him to establish a kind of mutual complicity between him and me; in the end, he was the last survivor, I let him open the door, and he left 😊
- I start the game, I locate a generator on which 3 survivors were working. I approached them walking (nurse), one of the survivors (Rebecca) dropped the generator, and looked at me without moving. It was so unexpected that I stopped short, we looked at each other, the others also stood up, we all looked at each other for a few seconds, and finally, we closed, because I saw that they didn't want to play too much against a nurse 🤣 It wasn't pity, it's just that the meeting went so funny that I said to myself "Come on, that made me laugh, no worries, we're going to farm calmly."
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There is tunneling and tunneling.
Case 1: there is 1 generator left to repair, I didn't make any kills, because I got caught in a hurry (and I played fairly during the game) I have to put pressure on the players; I meet a player who just got dehooked; yes, I will prioritize getting him out of the game.
Is this tunneling ?
Technically yes. But completely understandable.
Case 2: The killer starts his game. He puts a survivor down. He hooks him. As soon as the survivor is unhooked, the killer comes back on him, hits him once (BT), a second time (DH), a third time, hooks him again. He comes back on him again, hits him once (BT), a second time (DH), grabs the DS, puts him back down, hooks him again.
Is this tunneling ?
Technically yes.
And here, on the other hand, I don't mind saying that the killer played like a *******
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@Tsulan said:
Well now survivors finally get some time to learn how to play against her...
...aaaaaaaaand they disconnected on the first down.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/B2BA7TNYYAOV/oh-john.gif
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
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@egg_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3310097#Comment_3310097
Literally this. I'm not sure why people say "well if nurses can't run starstruck agi anymore they'll just equip more slowdown" as an argument that one shot nurse was fine. If anything, it just proves that it made games extremely easy just as much as 4 slowdowns do for all other killers (except maybe some of the weakest ones)
But then again, even 2 strong slowdowns on basekit nurse are more than enough for an easy game
"as an argument that one shot nurse was fine"
Starstruck and NOED are are problematic with the nurse, I totally agree.
Devour hope ? Very dangerous.
Rest of the exposed perks: situational, not impossible to avoid / counter.
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@Katzengott said:
As Huntress main i was always jealous about JOLT or Sloppy on Nurse, didn't make sense.
So, good change. But now you'll see full gen slow down Nurses ALOT.
"As Huntress main i was always jealous about JOLT or Sloppy on Nurse, didn't make sense."
Try, with the Nanny, to hit a survivor without using her teleportation, just by walking, and you may understand why it makes perfect sense for her to trigger Sloppy Butcher or Jolt with her teleported attacks.
The huntress can catch a survivor simply by running behind him.
The nurse can't.
That's all.
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"So I would like to recommend making the negative effect of the 3.3.0 version Torn Bookmark addon basekit(...)honestly I think it would be a great addition."
I suggest that you play as a nurse against strong survivor teams who are experts in their field before you propose this kind of thing, so that you can see that this proposal does not make sense.
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@SpaghettiYOLO said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3309809#Comment_3309809
lol there were people pointing out this hilariously obvious outcome to those that wanted all blinks to be special attacks. The balanced thing to do was make chained blinks count as special, that way precision had to be very important on first blink. Now we have a limited perk pool for Nurse unless you run the addon that makes her base speed 4.6 after a blink hit, in which case, it's the same exact scenario, only she can't blink for a minute. People still going down because now she can move at regular speed.
The smartest thing would have been NOT to choose this illogical solution of transforming her M1 into M2. Not even for her second blink.
I've read this too: I have the impression that many people think that a nurse can do without her second blink, some even suggesting that she only has one.
It just goes to show that a lot of players talk (I'm not thinking about you, I precise) about what a nurse should be/do/not be/don't do when they don't know anything about it... it's sad.
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@Blueberry said:
I don’t personally play nurse but I feel kinda bad that they will have very, very little perk variety to choose from now. They’re probably just going to stack gen regression like every other killer. Eruption, CoB, OC, and NWTH. Or just throw in a Pain resonance, Deadlock or Corrupt. Nurse needed the changes for sure, just sad to see another killer that’s gonna be stuck running the same perks.
That's exactly the problem.
Preventing the nurse from using Starstruck and NOED, okay, I agree, sure.
But all you had to do was to replace her TR with a lullaby, when carrying a survivor, and that was it (and for NOED, they could have removed the perk altogether, that wouldn't have been a problem in itself).
But here, as you say, they prevent the nurse from using average perks, which were not monstrous on her either.
It's true that Sloppy butcher was ultra dangerous with the nurse, my god, what a meta perk ...
It's a pity, because they went in the right direction by reworking her most insipid addons to make them interesting (if I understood correctly), but on the other hand, where they should not have failed, they failed in beauty ...
I can't wait to see what they'll do with the range and recharge addons ...
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@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3309814#Comment_3309814
Hardly. But a killer that can teleport through walls and smack a surv with relative ease shouldn't be able to utilise exposed.
Like I'm fine losing to a killer. But a sweaty nurse is insanely un fun to play against. I don't want to be able to loop every killer for 5 gens. But I want to at least run a chase that lasts more than 5 seconds.
"But a killer that can teleport through walls and smack a surv with relative ease shouldn't be able to utilise exposed."
There are 9 exposed perks.
Of these 9, only Starstruck and NOED are really problematic with the nurse.
Devour hope is also very dangerous, but depending on the RNG, the totem can fall quickly.
As for the rest of the exposed perks, their usefulness is very relative and the effect can easily be countered.
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@MeltingPenguins said:
Okay, wait. Isn't it that only her -hit-directly-after-blink-hits- are changed? her REGULAR m1 hits are not? Meaning that, yeah, whoop-di-do, you have to play a little more tactical now? Like, no more such perks, bamf to player, knock them down and hook them. No, you got to know where to bamf to start a chase and get a regular hit in to get the benefits of those perks? Meaning that you really ought to be -good- with nurse now?
Is that what these complains are about?
I don't know if you've heard, but the nurse is moving at 3.8m/s.
Good luck "playing tactics" when the survivors are running faster than you.
Anyway.
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3309583#Comment_3309583
If we’re considering removing perks because of 1 out of 30 of the killers I don’t think the issue lies in the perks design rather that 1 killer in question
But no doubt this will stifle nurse’s perk variety which I agree does suck. And I actually don’t mind your idea but changing this now will free up the devs to make stronger perks that won’t become problematic on her
To increase the power of certain perks for [all killers except the nurse], another proposal was to turn the nurse's M1 into an M3.
M1 : normal move
M2: special attack
M3: Nurse's attack
In this way, it would have been possible to adjust the perks at will, to increase their power on the other killers, without the nurse being able to benefit from this increase.
The example I often gave was Jolt.
We could have imagined that if Jolt was triggered by an M1, it would impact the generators at a distance of 42m, as opposed to 32m if it was triggered by an M3.
You see, that kind of thing.
Because indeed, being able to buff certain perks without the strongest killers getting a monster advantage, I totally agree.
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What these changes prove above all is that the developers do not understand anything about nurse.
Transforming the M1 into an M2? But what a brilliant idea.
That way, she won't be able to use Jolt, Sloppy butcher and/or K.O. anymore.
3 perks less. Let's see, what could we replace them with? With meta perks, of course!
Some people will say: "Yes, but you understand, they did this so that the nurse can't have any value with Starstruck!"
That's why, on this very forum, at least 478,540 times, it has been suggested that it would be MUCH MORE LOGICAL to remove her TR when she's carrying a survivor, and to replace it with a lullaby.
We delete Starstruck, but let her use little perks that aren't too bad.
(for NOED, I agree, but that, it was enough to remove NOED, I never understood why the developers of the game had created this kind of thing)
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"It's time to 3 gens to leave."
I would like someone to explain to me how we can eliminate the fact that: if on a list of 7 elements arranged on a given surface, we eliminate 4 that are close to each other, the 3 that remain will necessarily be close to each other.
It's just mathematics.
It's kind of like saying, "I do NOT want the shortest path between two points to be a straight line!"
The ONLY solution to "remove" a 3-gen would be to enlarge the maps so much that even if the last 3 generators in place are the "closest" to the initial set, watching over all three would be impossible for the killer, even a nurse.
So, I let you imagine the size of the maps that this would imply, and the non-playability that it would cause for the killers, if by chance the survivors break his 3-gen.
The problem is not, and has never been, the position of the generators.
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"Everyone's been complaining about her for YEARS."
Exaggeration + generalization
That's not the way to get things done 😅
Stop making such a big deal out of her; just delete its TR when it carries a survivor and bam, problems solved 😀
And as for the advantage of being in voice with your friends, that's just a bonus.
What will make a team dangerous is the individual mastery of its members in relation to the game.
A team can be in voice, if it is composed of players who make crap, who run in all the directions, who predrop all the pallets; by starting with the god palette; who make the people the ones following the others without trying to space them, who do not communicate between them on the perks of the killer, and who do not know loop... vocal or not, the killer will enjoy it 🤣
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I am always surprised that some people are extremely critical of SWFs🤔
Basically, "SWF" is just "having fun with your friends" ... how is having fun with your friends wrong? 🤔
People will tell me: "SWFs are much stronger and/or have an advantage over SoloQs".
Well, in that case, give SoloQs additional ways to get information, in the form of graphical elements included in the HUD 😉
And in this way it will be possible to buff (more or less, depending on the case) some of the weaker killers 😊
And don't forget that SWF =/= power.
If you put in voice 4 people, with the best perks / items / addons / offerings, on Ormond / Garden of Joy ... if they have the level of mastery of a potato ... in voice or not, they will not go far 🤣
And even in teams of 4 that play vocal, it is quite common to find 1 or 2 weak links, which are easier to fall, if necessary 😉
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People laugh at this post, but when they find out that in reality the Trickster is a thousand times more powerful than the nurse ... the return to reality will be so complicated ...
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@SmolBlob said:
Simple. Because she's perfectly fine, with the exception of 3 blink/range.
If the Torn Bookmark were an exceptional addon, all the nurses we face would use it; in fact, I hardly ever come across this addon 😮
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3299093#Comment_3299093
All the nerfs that I am suggesting would take nurse down from S tier to A- tier. That would be good for the game overall. Remove all the things that are head and shoulders above everything else and make it so that most things are near the same level of "goodness".
Along with Nurse being gutted we would treat Blight the same way. Maybe for example he needs to lose the ability to slam into pallets and break them (along with hug tech : which has already been confirmed that it will be removed).
And then we nerf SWF so that it doesn't have a massive advantage. That makes killer more fun and it makes playing as a solo feel like you are not "missing out" because the SWF can't run any duplicate perks or items.
-"However, we must not forget that the survivors are also able to : - communicate with each other"
As it stands now Nurse and Blight are the only fair killers to play against a 3 or 4 man SWF. Nerf SWF, Blight and Nurse and everything else gets better by proxy. SWF would be much weaker if they could not repeat any perks or items.
"There is no problem with the nurse starting with 2 blinks."
There is a huge problem. She isn't a build up killer and Nemesis is. If nurse can start with 2 blinks then Nemesis should just not even have a buildup mechanic. Make his whip be T3 length (with the higher movement speed) the entire game and make him always have the ability to instantly break pallets.
Nurse is the best killer in the game. There is no reason for her not to be a build up killer. Make Michael Myers start in "tier 2" with full move speed as the new "T1". Or he could just be 5% slower in T1 and then plays the rest of the game 5% faster when he gets out of T2. Either option would be fair.
"In general, just because some killers don't have something that Nurse has, doesn't mean that it should be treated as a race to the bottom."
The nerfs I propose to Nurse would not put her on the bottom. She would still be a solid "A tier" killer. She would be harder to use but still have very high reward when you play her well.
I am well aware of the Hens game you mentioned. And there's another good game by Hens where he plays no perk Nurse vs a 4 man team (named something like Nurse is OP). That game highlights three things :
1) crow map is too big for killers without movement speed : cut it down to 9500m² or less.
2) SWF is too strong and needs adjustment (no repeats as a start)
3) Nurse is too strong relative to all other killers.
"As it stands now Nurse and Blight are the only fair killers to play against a 3 or 4 man SWF. Nerf SWF, Blight and Nurse and everything else gets better by proxy. SWF would be much weaker if they could not repeat any perks or items."
I think too many people assume that "SWF" = "Death Squad that you can't beat."
Basically, a team in SWF is just a bunch of buddies playing in voice.
And teams of buddies who play voice BUT are as good as potatoes, my god, there are tons of them, on DbD.
It's not a criticism, it's just an observation: some SWF are awesome, others are just... adorable.
Just like some soloQs are formidable on their own, while others are ... adorable.
I think you get the idea.
I don't really see how we should nerf the SWFs by taking the most powerful ones as a benchmark.
"There is a huge problem. She isn't a build up killer and Nemesis is. If nurse can start with 2 blinks then Nemesis should just not even have a buildup mechanic. Make his whip be T3 length (with the higher movement speed) the entire game and make him always have the ability to instantly break pallets.
Nurse is the best killer in the game. There is no reason for her not to be a build up killer. Make Michael Myers start in "tier 2" with full move speed as the new "T1". Or he could just be 5% slower in T1 and then plays the rest of the game 5% faster when he gets out of T2. Either option would be fair."
Again, I don't see how the fact that the nurse has 2 blinks at the beginning of the game is a problem.
The beginning of the game where the killer arrives in a few seconds on the survivors is not specific to the nurse.
I remember very well most of the cases where I heard myself saying to my team: "What, but no .... ALREADY ???? He's already on me, guys!!!"
And it wasn't just with nurses, far from it.
Moreover, since she has a recharge time, the nurse uses only one blink to move, unlike the old nurse who could afford the luxury of moving using all her blinks.
And again, there is no point in comparing the nurse to another killer who is radically different: they don't work the same way, don't have the same power, nor the same gamedesign.
Eventually, it's possible to create a topic for a redesign of Nemesis' power, if needed, but including it as a comparison to justify a desire to remove one of the two blinks from the nurse is not relevant.
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@AbsolutGrndZer0 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3299967#Comment_3299967
It's not about those perks, it's about the ones most Nurses run that make her able to get instant-downs on survivors that have no way of countering her. Even a halfway decent Nurse can land her blinks, and if she's running an exposed perk and something like BBQ, then it's a wash. When they were doing the "Finisher Mori" test on the PTB, I saw quite a few Nurse players pulling off a 4K in under three minutes, at least one in under a minute. It's insanely easy for a Nurse to just slug everyone with the right exposed perks...
So no, the fact that she won't be able to use Jolt, I don't care.
"It's insanely easy for a Nurse to just slug everyone with the right exposed perks..."
The only exposed perks that are really dangerous with the nurse are NOED, Starstruck and Devour Hope.
MYC is only really dangerous if used in conjunction with Flood of rage.
I agree that removing NOED would not be a luxury.
I agree that preventing the nurse from using Starstruck, by replacing her TR, when she carries a survivor, with a lullaby.
That leaves Devour Hope.
The rest (Dragon's Grip, Haunted Ground, Hubris, Iron Maiden and Rancor) of the exposed perks have situational and relative effectiveness.
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Concerning NOED, I agree that before the rework, it was much more boring.
However, I was referring to the fact that I feel it gives the killer an undeserved advantage.
Kind of like the old DH, in a way.
"I press a button, propel myself forward, restart the chase and waste phenomenal time on the killer."
"The last gen pop, so without any talent, I can OS a player without any problem."
I'd rather be killed 100 times by a killer who knew how to mindgame me masterfully, than by a killer who was simply carried by NOED.
I remember a game, with my team's surviving friends, where we faced a main Billy who was making those sniper moves... it was just beautiful...
He got us into a lot of trouble, but I wasn't mad at him, you know, because I was in awe of his character control.
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(sorry, my PC had a bug and split my answer)
"Sloppy adds pressure by giving you a chance at one hit downs - something the nurse doesn't need easier access to."
Sloppy butcher is by no means an overpowering perk; she is annoying at times, but does not have a very threatening character.
Against good, organized, methodical survivors who don't waste time during the game, its usefulness will be relative.
"Since you go out of your way to explain how they don't help you in chase then it should not be a problem to remove blink distance and recharge addons. Or we could make them be like 2% longer."
The fact that scope addons are useless during the chase does not mean that they have no use outside of it.
I was pointing out their usefulness during chase in reaction to people who seem to find them absolutely too powerful.
They are a great help in patrolling and/or map control, but not during the chase, unless, indeed, the survivor is trying to put some distance.
"I am not one of those people saying : Nurse has no counterplay (/wah). The problem is that the counterplay is very limited. If she blinks perfectly then you get hit. Giving people more room between sets of blinks would make chases longer.
I am one of those people that thinks there should be no S tier killers. There shouldn't be anything below a "B" tier killer either. For comparsion sake I would say doctor is in the "D" category. I don't think it would be probematic if the Doctor had an iri addon that made his shock give deep wounds (some conditions should apply, maybe at least madness 2).
And before people think Blight is fine: no he isn't. Some of his "best " addons should probably be -2 bounces instead of +2 bounces (alchemist ring and adrenaline vial).
Compound 33 should probably give blight a permanent movement speed penalty. On that note : Blight could easily be a 110% killer and be perfectly fine.
Also before we move on - there should be no nerfing of Blight or Nurse until SWF gets nerfed. As a minimum : no character, item , perk or offering can be repeated. When the team queues up everything except their outfit becomes locked. Add a UI element so people can see team members perks to coordinate better before a match."
The point is that the nurse's counterplay is much more tricky and complicated than the other killers, I agree.
The thing is, the nurse is a killer that will require the survivors to deploy more resources to achieve the same result as with another killer. Some may think that's fair, some may not, but that's just the reality of things.
For example, against a killer with no real threatening powers and who only does M1, even a team of 4 soloQ players, if they are at least competent and logical, will be able to get by without too much trouble.
Against a nurse, since we are talking about a killer who raises the level of difficulty, pressure and speed of the game, the opponent must adapt accordingly (organized team, vocal if needed, making the right decisions, at the right times, knowing the game, the maps, the perks, the strategies, etc.)
I take an example : Hens333's team was able to finish a game against Supaalf with 2K while they (Hens333 and his team) were limited in perks (tournament conditions); Supaalf used Call of brine, Overcharge, PGTW and Corrupt + double recharge.
I'm not saying that Hens333 could have always done 2K/2E, but the game clearly showed some effective counterplay on both sides.
(I don't take into account the games Supaalf won when he used Starstruck, this perk brings, in my opinion, too much imbalance when used by a nurse)
"So making her start the game with one blink would slow down her ability to snowball tremendously. She would have to blink to get close, blink to get close and then try for a single blink hit. This would make her even more difficult to use.
In what world does it make sense for Nurse to start with 2 blinks but Nemesis needs to be a "build up" killer?"
There is no problem with the nurse starting with 2 blinks.
On the other hand, there's no reason why Nemesis can't be reworked to increase the speed with which he gets his power, right, if some people think it makes sense.
In general, just because some killers don't have something that Nurse has, doesn't mean that it should be treated as a race to the bottom.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3298353#Comment_3298353
Jolt is a time saver. Nurse can down very quickly and there is no longer a cool down on Jolt. Nurse should get jolt only with a non blink. That means she could use it but it would he bard for her to sue over and over again. That would be fair when you consider pig can use jolt and not get much use because his chases are long and she can't move quickly.
Sloppy adds pressure by giving you a chance at one hit downs - something the nurse doesn't need easier access to.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3298400#Comment_3298400
"However, regarding the nurse's addons, they are not really a problem."
Since you go out of your way to explain how they don't help you in chase then it should not be a problem to remove blink distance and recharge addons. Or we could make them be like 2% longer.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/CXO428YY1PQO/image.png
Nurse should not be getting +distance blink addons when other killers get nonsense like this as a green addon.
-"Regarding the reload addons, when I use both at the same time, it actually allows me to chain blinks very quickly, which makes the game much more oppressive for the survivor, I agree!"
Nurse without addons is oppressive when played by a good player. Most of the killer cast is a complete joke to good players unless you bring best in slot addons and you are completely insane with that killer.
-"But it doesn't prevent him from having at his disposal some means to counter me."
I am not one of those people saying : Nurse has no counterplay (/wah). The problem is that the counterplay is very limited. If she blinks perfectly then you get hit. Giving people more room between sets of blinks would make chases longer.
I am one of those people that thinks there should be no S tier killers. There shouldn't be anything below a "B" tier killer either. For comparsion sake I would say doctor is in the "D" category. I don't think it would be probematic if the Doctor had an iri addon that made his shock give deep wounds (some conditions should apply, maybe at least madness 2).
And before people think Blight is fine: no he isn't. Some of his "best " addons should probably be -2 bounces instead of +2 bounces (alchemist ring and adrenaline vial).
Compound 33 should probably give blight a permanent movement speed penalty. On that note : Blight could easily be a 110% killer and be perfectly fine.
Also before we move on - there should be no nerfing of Blight or Nurse until SWF gets nerfed. As a minimum : no character, item , perk or offering can be repeated. When the team queues up everything except their outfit becomes locked. Add a UI element so people can see team members perks to coordinate better before a match.
"Even the best nurses almost always validate their attacks with the second blink."
So making her start the game with one blink would slow down her ability to snowball tremendously. She would have to blink to get close, blink to get close and then try for a single blink hit. This would make her even more difficult to use.
In what world does it make sense for Nurse to start with 2 blinks but Nemesis needs to be a "build up" killer?
"As for NOED, I don't know what your opinion is on that, but I think if that perk just disappeared from the game, it wouldn't be a bad thing in itself. "
NOED was dead to me the moment it got bound to a totem.
When you look at the design of maps we had in 2016 it would make sense from a fairness standpoint if we had the 2016 version of NOED in the game right now (Garden of Joy, Forsaken Boneyard, . In case you were not aware : +9% movement speed and it wasn't bound to a totem so it lasted forever and could not be removed.
Or we could just make NOED read : if the map is larger than 9500m² then NOED is no longer bound to a totem and lasts forever when triggered. There are only about 10 maps smaller than that size. Generally speaking if a map is larger than that then it is not a fair map.
NOED is there so bad killers can hook camp one person to death and then NOED someone at the end of the game and then hook camp them. If noobs need and use it to get 2k that's fine. It's a waste of a perk for killer in the same way that SpineChill was ruined in the 6.0 rework.
"Jolt is a time saver. Nurse can down very quickly and there is no longer a cool down on Jolt. Nurse should get jolt only with a non blink. That means she could use it but it would he bard for her to sue over and over again. That would be fair when you consider pig can use jolt and not get much use because his chases are long and she can't move quickly."
Indeed, since it has been modified, Jolt allows the killer to chain activations on one or more generators.
However, we must not forget that the survivors are also able to :
- communicate with each other during the chase in order to avoid bringing the killer to the most risky places, i.e. the places where the rest of the team is repairing the most important generators
- choose not to force the repair of such or such generator if they see that the killer is in the middle of a chase at that place
Obviously, Jolt has a rather large range of action, but with good communication, it is possible to reduce his efficiency in a way that is obviously not absolute, but nevertheless significant.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3298411#Comment_3298411
That's not a good idea.... I think it would provoke farming or at least giving the killer the kill anyway.. because the bp bonus is higher than the reward for escaping at that point. And I think most people don't care about escaping that much that they would not take the bonus 50k bp for free.
It's true, especially since it would distort theses killers' MMR... possibly a lower bonus, which wouldn't make you want to farm with them...🤔
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By the way, folks, what do you think of the following proposition? 🤗
I had indicated, in another thread, the possibility of also thinking in terms of "rewards".
Let me explain.
We know that the game's podium consists of the Nurse, the Blight and the Spirit.
Here is a reward that the survivors could have when they face one of these 3 killers:
- if the killer makes 0 or 1 kill: no bonus
- if the killer makes 2 kills: the BP gained by the survivors are doubled
- if the killer makes 3 or 4 kills: the BP gained by the survivors are tripled
Variant :
- if the killer makes 3 kills: the BP (survivors) are tripled
- if the killer makes 4 kills: the BP (survivors) are quadrupled
PS : From the moment one (or more) survivor leaves the game before the end, the bonuses are canceled.
From the moment one (or more) survivor fails ALL his attempts to escape from the 1st hook's step (or that he fails any QTE on the second phase, except the last two), the bonuses are canceled.