Laluzi
Laluzi
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- Laluzi
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The gameplay itself is more exciting, in my opinion, and you have more control over the match than you do while playing survivor (generally speaking, and SWF sort of circumvents this), but it's also more stressful to play without the safety net of teammates, and you're much likelier to encounter angry players that will take out their frustrations on you.
That said, despite what's often bandied around, killer generally doesn't stop being fun until you get into high MMR. There's nothing to be afraid of at low-medium and you're allowed to play whatever killer, build, or strategy you like to fair success. High is where the sweatfest begins and most killers and perks in DBD get laughed out of the game.
Either way, anything new is worth a whirl to see if you enjoy it. I was afraid of touching killer for my first 200 hours and now I have lots of fun with the role.
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@DemonDaddy said:
I get that addressing the hacking itself is difficult, but the way they address the hackers needs change. Hackers openly gloat about the responses they get when caught with blatant evidence and make note of how slow/minor the consequences will be.
This. Even if you don't have a functioning anti-cheat, you can drive off a lot of cheaters just through high turnover rates and forcing them to buy another burner account on the daily. Most people will consider this not worth it and go somewhere else. (Of course, burner accounts were more of an obstacle before the Epic Games Store release...)
On DBD, you can get away with visibly obvious hacking and outright baiting the mods in chat for months. The report system is defunct and cheaters have near-zero fear of retaliation.
All of that said, I'm extremely dubious about this 10% statistic. I'd be surprised if it were as high as 2%.
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If you're doing it because you can't hook them safely and this is the way you'd maximize your kills, that's not toxic. If you're doing it because you want to draw out the survivors' anguish and make them rage in endgame chat, that's toxic.
A lot of people assume #2 when they're on the receiving end of something unenjoyable when in actuality there's a gameplay reason behind it. What you were doing wasn't toxic, it was just an unfortunate consequence of how hooks can spawn on vertical maps.
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@Akumakaji said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2783710#Comment_2783710
You know, I was instantly thinking about that knife and outfit, when OP asked their question. :<
It should be coming out relatively soon. We're currently seeing outfits from Tome 4 make their way into the store - that outfit was from Tome 5.
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Firecrackers are, like, the weakest form of blinds possible. They're only an issue if you're playing Wraith. I don't think I've ever successfully been firecracker blinded during a pickup. Pay attention to the sound cue (or the survivor running out in front of you) and jerk your camera upwards if you hear the fizz of a firecracker. Unless the survivor timed the blind perfectly - and they need to be much closer to you than they would with a flashlight to pull this off - it is trivially easy to avoid.
It's a one-use item that a survivor brings in lieu of a toolbox or medkit and could have gotten a steady supply of through a perk anyway.
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I don't really see why this buff would be good for the game. It would generally encourage survivors to sabo the scourge hooks or go down away from them, making scourge hook perks harder to use and exacerbating their RNG mechanic. I'd rather have it the way it is now - survivors can figure out which hooks are scourge hooks through them being used during the match, but they aren't given that information at the start.
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@Zachcjjj said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2783328#Comment_2783328
my issue isnt so much the killer can bloodlust 3 you around any pallets thats not a god pallet and lose the game because of it my issue is that, that is incredibly boring and while i 100% agree with you that there are specific broken loops that need bloodlust they are few and far between and shouldn't exist in the first place which would then hypothetically be when bloodlust gets removed
I mean, I think chasing a survivor in circles for three-four rotations before they finally drop the pallet and move onto the next one is incredibly boring, but I'm not asking for that to be removed. And if anything - I find Bloodlust frequently convinces killers to make stupid plays and keep trying to game a pallet instead of breaking it.
In an ideal world, they'd remove all the pseudo-infinites, but I think we know that's not going to happen. Any sort of map balancing comes at a glacial pace and is deeply misbegotten half of the time. RPD just happened. I don't have an especial lot of faith in the balancing department.
Also, while knowing that hugging the inner edge of a loop buys you more time does take some skill, I can hardly see it as this skill-dominated aspect that's essential to the game when survivors doing it is just straight-up better than the killer doing it. To me, that's about as skilled as running House of Pain; it's very effective if you have basic game skills, yes, but mostly because the killer has no counter other than brute forcing it. Bloodlust makes it so that if I'm Huntress, a survivor can't take me for a dozen spins around a curvy rock or one of Coldwind's hay bale structures because the disparities in our hitboxes versus our speed makes it take unreasonably long for me to close in. Bloodlust forces survivors to consume some map resources in overly long chases. I don't think that's a bad thing for the game.
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I don't see the issue with Bloodlust. It's necessary to deal with a few extremely powerful loops that still exist, it counteracts how survivors are able to run loops tighter than killers are (and shaves down the number of rotations that that discrepancy can cause), and if the killer can only get you with Bloodlust, you already 'won' that chase with how long you stalled them, and your teammates should have made use of that time to slam gens. You're not meant to evade the killer forever. Use pallets if Bloodlust is an issue for you.
I certainly wouldn't want to see it removed while MMR is still handing out one-perk baby killers to thousand-hour veteran SWFs.
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Almost all recolors come into the store about a year after their respective rift. However, single cosmetic pieces without a full outfit sometimes don't go up - same with green rarity recolors of the default outfit.
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@GoshJosh said:
You didn’t even mention the most fun parts! Two dedicated totem spawns and gens wide out in the open with no nearby resources. Both swamp maps are practically gen locks before any generators are even repaired.
I wish the swamp maps were disabled until they were reworked for the better.
The totems are pure ridiculousness. You always have those two herp derp right next to the trees in the center of the map, and then you'll have others that are squirreled away in the corners of the map that no sane player would ever tread. Whether it's a hex or a boon, dealing with those ones is a nightmare.
And I'd forgotten about the gens smacked straight in the middle of no-man's-land. There's also almost always a tight 3-gen around shack on Grim Pantry. Swamp's the only map where I've seen a gen in the actual corner of the map. It's just insane. I'm desperately hoping its rework is more than a graphical one.
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Yeah, I found a great clip of this on Reddit when the event started. Still makes me laugh.
2,117 votes and 74 comments so far on RedditI've encountered it twice - once in Ormond on a hill, once in Swamp. Neither time did anyone want to bounce with me. :(
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The RNG on Swamp structures is all over the place. You have no idea what to expect walking beneath dock or pantry. And on the pantry's upper floor, getting a window on the front (or back) instead of the sides is crazily strong. Hooks, hatch, totems, gens - they're all over the place with no rhyme or reason. God have mercy on you if you're playing Plague, or playing against Pig, because those spawns are going to be flat against the walls. And the lighting combined with the tall reeds everywhere makes it so hard to see.
Swamp is just brutally unpleasant no matter what side you're playing. At least we have bouncy envelopes there.
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Huh. At least it's not a clone of the default this time, so most people are getting a cosmetic they didn't already have before.
RIP if you did pay $4 for the previous version, though.
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I think it's busted on Artist, but it seems fine to me on Doctor. Haven't encountered a Freddy with it (and suspect he's the easiest to counter of the three anyway), and on every other killer, I can't see an issue. It's oppressive if the killer is quickly completing chases, but that's oppressive in general. It's like many other perks in that you recognize it's there and adapt how you play to avoid triggering it.
I don't know if it's meta, but it's good now, and it used to be terrible. It's a pity that Distortion, Coup de Grace, and Buckle Up didn't get the same treatment.
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@Trickstaaaaa said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2781104#Comment_2781104
Right people are using it to be frivolous. It's all a gimmick that 95% of survivors won't even use next week. It's not worthy of making the perk useless again. Plus it can be countered by slugging.
Why do people act like slugging fixes Boil Over when the teams that use it will pick up the player as soon as you leave and they'll return to contributing (and running straight back towards the trouble area when you arrive on the scene), if they didn't just bring Exponential anyway?
When dealing with a player abusing Boil Over, and the team isn't crowding around like a bunch of hungry spectators, you have to throw the whole game to be able to kill them. Otherwise you can't do anything about them unless they screw up or you're Pyramid Head - perhaps Trapper as well, if they're not careful or their team doesn't help them disarm the traps. It's either a losing situation or a "I can bleed them all out, but it'll take the better part of an hour to do it." To that end, I don't see how "you won't encounter it much once the shiny new gloss wears off" is a good argument to keep things the way they are. They fixed Soul Guard/WGLF abuse and Breakdown abuse despite those being a rarity to encounter, because it turns out having that kind of broken interaction in the game isn't healthy even if it's just a few people running it for the purpose of being annoying. There's no reason for Boil Over to exist in its current state except to fuel trolls. Because when you're not using it to abuse map design, it's still a really bad perk that nobody is going to want to run over actual consistent and helpful effects. It's unfeasible for it to trigger on most maps, it tells the killer that you have it, and the drop still won't get you free if you don't orchestrate the situation or your teammates aren't there to block the killer. It's arguably the worst kind of perk - virtually no honest uses and plenty of scummy ones. I'm a little reminded of Insidious, but Insidious is easier to deal with once you know it's there.
I could perhaps live with current Boil Over being a permanent addition to the game if they fix it so that every single trouble spot is now guaranteed to have a hook - second floor Asylum, RPD library balconies, second floor Eyrie, Thompson House gen, Badham two story house, Dead Dawg saloon, Grim Pantry main building. And those present their own issues, because several of those hooks could be bodyblocked by the killer (which is currently an issue with one of the possible Eyrie hooks, iirc) and there's still the problem with that hook being consumed if several people are abusing the area.
To the argument that Sluzzy brought up, since I've seen a few other people who aren't just baiting echoing it: Stuff like maps or Small Game are training wheels for learning how to deal with Ruin. Those things make it easier, but the main point is that they'll help you learn the map spawns so that you can deal with hexes on your own. Same if you're dealing with a Blight with Tinkerer - Prove Thyself or BNP will help you, but teamwork fills in the gaps just fine; have one guy distract the Blight with a promising chase and have everyone else pile on the gen, and commit if the Blight comes back. Perks make it easier, but game knowledge fills in the gaps. Meanwhile, those perks and items are good enough (or the things they counter are common enough) that they're often worth bringing anyway. For instance, Small Game will help you place boons without wasting time and will work to counter any hexes the killer might bring, especially NOED.
You can't do anything about Boil Over abuse without the right perks. It doesn't matter how well you understand the situation. Either the whole team crowds around for saves and you can kill them if there's no No Mither/Exponential shenanigans, or you're helpless. Needing a perk to deal with another perk is terrible design, especially when the counter-perk is nearly useless on its own. Do you bring Calm Spirit every game on the possibility you might be facing a god-tier Infectious Fright Nurse? Why not? Perhaps because Calm Spirit is close to worthless otherwise and the odds of you facing that particular scenario is quite low, so it's better to bring perks that will always help you?
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@WesCravenFan said:
I miss the dark game. And the fog. Is any map really dark anymore?
Autohaven's still pretty dark. Midwich is dark too, but it's mostly an indoor map.
The rest, eh. And Ormond, Coldwind, and Eyrie desperately need the lights turned down. Just straight up middle of the day lighting. Not only is it awful for atmosphere, it's crap for game balance because several things were designed on the basis that maps would have low lighting as a default and get screwed over every time they load into the increasing spread of maps that don't apply. Have fun being a Ghostface, a Trapper, or a Blendette with Lucky Break on Eyrie of Crows.
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@Aneurysm said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2779522#Comment_2779522
I'm not seeing the connection?
I believe the connection is that that's the entire point of the perk. If you take off that use case, then suddenly it's not any good. DMS is meant to interrupt generators when someone gets up to go for the save, or gets spooked. If the gens only get blocked when everyone gets off of them, it's not nearly as good and you may as well run something like Ruin instead.
Whether it's too good now or needs adjusting - maybe. I'm not sure yet. But blocking a gen that nobody's working on anymore isn't very helpful, and this still wouldn't fix the issues with the killers that DMS is most powerful on because all three of them can force or scare everyone off a gen at once.
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@Gamedozer7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2779705#Comment_2779705
How is it useless in solo it takes no team effort to pull off?
It's far from useless in solo, but you need a map offering for sure, because your teammates won't help bodyblock, sabo, or bring corroborating offerings and perks. If you bring it in solo queue and have no map offerings, it's a joke perk. Really, if you bring Boil Over and don't run into an unhookable spot, it's no better than it used to be - it might occasionally push the killer into a doorway and annoy them, but that's it. It would be more accurate to say that in normal gameplay, it's a worthless perk. But when it's Asylum map offerings and Flip-Flop/Boil Over/Tenacity/Unbreakable... that's not normal gameplay.
That said, when these two things are in play, I've been able to do entire generators by myself because one player was abusing a Boil Over spot.
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So basically, I have to sacrifice half of my perk slots on the possibility my opponents might be running a perk and map offering that lets them become literally unhookable otherwise?
RPD's not the only one, either. Eyrie, Asylum, Badham, and Dead Dawg all have trouble spots. It gets much worse when you add oak, sabo, and bodyblocking into the picture.
I don't need Detective's Hunch to counter NOED - I can learn where totem spots are all on my own. I don't need Prove Thyself to counter Ruin/Tinkerer. I need Agi/Iron Grasp to counter Boil Over.
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It's incredible how many weird interactions it has with mechanics and powers. Like, Trapper's traps become godlike because the hallways are too narrow to go around them, but going around the map to pick them up makes him want to curl up and die three times more than usual. Pig boxes have so much real distance between them that you can get headpopped even if the Pig leaves you alone. People easily hit second stage on hook. Two boon totems can cover the entire map. Losing scratch marks on this map makes chasing nigh-on impossible because there's so many different directions to go. Hold W is incredibly effective because there's virtually no way to shave corners and gain time. Ranged killers and Billy basically don't have a power. The library is the root of all evil. I even got stuck on a hatch once.
When you get a match full of newbies on RPD, the game takes 20+ minutes because none of the players can find anything.
It really shows that it wasn't a map designed for DBD gameplay.
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If a player uses a map offering to a two-story map and I see a survivor has Boil Over, I'm going to assume that player intends to abuse it and I should kill them while I can.
Otherwise I don't really care. I've seen it heavily abused in a few survivor games of mine, though. I've been lucky enough to avoid a Flip Flop/Tenacity/Unbreakable/Boil Over squad as killer, but I've also been dodging RPD offerings, so that's probably why.
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@Kurri said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2776021#Comment_2776021
Sounds like you're making a big deal out of nothing. The hook spawns before the update could shave off or add a second getting to a hook, the wiggle timer being shaved off 1 second so that people with a disability can play the game sounds fair to me, and 1 second isn't that big of a deal.
But adding great skill checks was completely unnecessary for accessibility purposes. They added struggle skill checks without adding great skill check zones that would pause your timer. Wiggle skill checks didn't need them either, they just put them there because.
This makes it so that some previous scenarios that would allow the killer to get the hook despite obstructing factors now allow the survivor to get out. And this is most of the time for those cases, because these great skill checks aren't like regular great skill checks, they're super easy and most players can hit most of them, not just veterans.
Everyone always gives the same "one second doesn't make a difference" argument and then either ignores me or goes "that doesn't count" when I illustrate where it does make a difference. I'm profoundly unconvinced. Would you like if the killer had an extra one second grace period to grab someone off an unhook?
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Nah, I have trouble with that too on darker maps. Autohaven is probably the worst offender.
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Aww. We need more of this in the forums.
I'd like to give a big shout-out to all the survivors who are just playing the game and vibing without using map offerings and Boil Over right now. The game wouldn't be worth playing without you guys carrying the torch. Bonus points to everyone who brings an envelope.
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Wraith and Twins. Wraith relies on hit and run because he's bad at getting the second hit, and Twins are nearly powerless when there's no injured survivors running around.
Legion as well, for the same reason as Wraith, but Legion gets a little more slowdown out of the deal because CoH doesn't affect mending.
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I quite like charms, and I enjoy decorating hooks with things that fit the character. Survivor charms are harder to see and make the character easier to spot, so I tend to be more reserved with them unless I have a bright outfit on that character anyway. The stuff that's "5x a picture of Amanda's foot" is a waste of space, but we've had some really neat charms in the rift that I'm very happy to have.
I just wish that whoever's behind designing charms would focus a little more on what they think people would actually like to see. This tome is pretty great, but like, you sometimes get things like "literally just a big tick", "a square with 22 on it", or "a circle with a picture of a camera on it" when stuff like dolls of the characters, bright glowy things, and cute or funny memorabilia always go over well. And please, trim down the recolor charms. I do not think I have met anyone who likes those.
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There was one revamp that was an improvement - Ormond. I'm praying for a repeat of that. The Game and Campbell's Chapel were the opposite, becoming markedly more unbalanced, and then essentially everything else was a neutral, and maps like Shelter Woods and Cowshed did not see their balance issues addressed either way with the Realm Beyond updates.
What I'm not praying for is the same map with a bunch of breakable walls thrown in. I can't imagine they'd make Haddonfield's tile arrangement worse (famous last words), but they do love adding breakable walls and breakable walls are, on the vast majority of maps they've been added, not an interactive element of gameplay but a chore the killer has to address to make an area chaseable. There are a few exceptions where it's a dynamic choice, but the favorite implementation is 'slap it in a doorway next to a window.' One of the mitigating factors of breakable walls - and they're still awful, don't get me wrong - is that on most maps where breaking them is mandatory to un-deify a god window, they're all in the same building and it's not a huge detour to break them early on so that you don't auto-lose a chase later. With Haddonfield... having breakable walls in all of the houses would be a new kind of cruelty.
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If killers moved at the same speed as survivors, it would take ages for killers to catch anyone, and in many situations it would be outright impossible.
What you need to do is learn to utilize the things survivors can do to buy time. Killers run faster than you, so you won't last too long if you run in a straight line, but they climb through windows much more slowly and they can't vault over pallets - they have to break them. Ideally, you want to be jumping through windows to shave time off your escape route and dropping pallets on the killer to stun them as well as force them to break them, as well as breaking line of sight and confusing the killer on where you are. You do leave behind scratch marks that the killer can follow (you can't see these yourself unless you run a certain perk), so you'll rarely fool them for long, but you can make those marks misleading by doubling back or simply not running for a short period of time.
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@Kurri said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2773952#Comment_2773952
How big of a difference is 1 second though. That is the only difference. A survivor wiggles one second less if they hit every great skill check. I am sure they didn't program the map rng for hook placement to predict down to the last second. I am fairly confident that it's just based on open spaces and at least every third to fourth tile gets a hook.
I'm not sure how many times I have to repeat this, but 1 second matters quite a bit in every single one of those situations I brought up earlier. If there's very bad hook spawns or you're in an area that's notorious for not having nearby hooks (badham basement, rpd library catwalk, etc), or survivors are trying to prevent you from reaching a hook, having or losing a second is quite liable to make or break you. I'm baffled by how many people are acting like this change doesn't matter. I see situations where I or a teammate almost or barely wiggles off, or I almost lose or do lose a survivor when I nearly had it, every day.
One second is big in this game. It's the difference of whether you finish a gen in the killer's face or get downed, it's the difference of whether you reach a pallet or not, it can be the deciding factor whether you crawl out the gate or the killer picks you up at the threshold. When you're beating off a SWF swarm with a stick, or you're taking the long way around Midwich because the game decided spawning a bunch of hooks in the courtyard and upstairs means this particular hallway doesn't need to have any hooks, you feel that missing second.
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I got Elodie. Wanted to finish tome 8, plus I'm almost done with the original characters. Just have Jeff, Jonah, Felix, Deathslinger, and Twins left.
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0 votes and 5 comments so far on Reddit
This isn't mine, but I've got to share it. I think this has to be this event's gameplay at its absolute finest.
Wish the video would open directly in the forums - does anyone know how to do that with Reddit clips?
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@Nathan13 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2774888#Comment_2774888
Don’t get mad at the survivors, they didn’t design the perk.
If they're just playing normally with Boil Over, sure. If they're using map offerings and deliberately running into unhookable corners, they know damn well what they're doing.
That's like saying don't get mad at the insidious/agi/ig/noed basement Bubba because they didn't design the killer. It's still someone playing a deliberately ######### game where nobody gets to have fun.
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@Dito175 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2775109#Comment_2775109
It's prorbably this, before the release of the Re chapter there was a 5 pages thread about how counterforce being OP.
I remember that. It's so hilarious in hindsight that Counterforce was going to be the end of the world for hexes, and then three months later, boons happened.
I'm pretty sure I was concerned about Counterforce at the time, but yeesh, talk about a miscalculation.
@GlamourousLeviathan said:
I know that Boil Over has been problematic because of how abusable it is but what's the problem with Dead Man's Switch?
Artist can facecamp someone and force everyone off every gen with birds. Either you hook trade and she does it again, or you let the person die and less time than usual to slam gens because about a third of the full hook timer is blocked by DMS.
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@C3Tooth said:
I dont buy Bubba, but I played him twice with Splinter offering far back then. And I got 6.000 shards.
Big winner.
That's so crazy. I love it. Who would have thought those ancient offerings would have ended up being good for something?
Got mine last night and bought Elodie with the shards. Guess that's that. RIP, Meg mask.
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@konchok said:
At this point I don't think BHVR trusts their community. And I can see why, the community has largely been complaining about how survivors are OP when it's clear as day that Killers have been dominating and still are. So you can see how they would be wary of listening to feedback about balance.
I think you're right (well, about the first part, anyway, the second part is more complicated than that.) I suspect the reason they didn't listen to PTB feedback about CoH and now these two is because they did listen to PTB feedback about Lucky Break and it ended up being overblown. At this point, they're just assuming the community is afraid of anything good and they're waiting to take their own observations.
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@Labrac said:
Both are so insanely badly designed that there's no point discussing which is worse. I hate Badham more just because for some reason it has 5 variants, so you get it way more due to RNG.
Thank god, but that's not actually how it works. The game selects a realm randomly (or via an offering), then a map from that realm.
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I'd rather load into Haddonfield than Badham. Haddonfield, I can at least protect certain gens and pick a side of the map to play around. Badham is just completely and utterly unpleasant. All of the loops have visibility, every gen is in its own private solar system, there's 4 very strong buildings to loop equally spaced around the map so that something's always in running distance, and even the dead zones have plenty of good pallets.
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@Thr_ust said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2774956#Comment_2774956
Ok but hear me out. We give plague permanent corrupt purge.
That means I have to hear the 'whispers' all game while I chase 115% move speed survivors who get a regenerating Dead Hard every 10 seconds. And a gun.
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@hailxsatanxeveryxday said:
Can the devs please just give killers some ridiculously overpowered stuff like this, too? Then everyone could be happy.
Honestly, a Dragon Ball Z-style power creep on both sides might be kind of fun.
It really wouldn't. It'd hard mandate everyone to run the busted stuff in order to have a chance and the entire game experience would just become a mess of escalating bullshit.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2773716#Comment_2773716
You can read "You" as "Someone". Not you specifically.
And well, my empathy might be quite low for Killer players currently, because of the constant complaints and hypocrisy. (And use of unfun playstyles.)
You can just say - Boil Over is a strategy. How about that?
Boil Over might be the first Perk which actually hinders the Killer in a way that they cannot make BPs. Obviously, still more than a Survivor getting facecamped, but usually only Killer players are able to ruin the others experience by not letting them play. The worst thing Survivors were able to do is being annoying. But they cannot really hinder the Killer player to get points or to win.
But now with Boil Over there is a big outcry (which will go down soon, since not many players will run Boil Over anymore after it loses the "new"-feeling) - because suddenly a killer player might not be able to get Hooks. So maybe Killer Mains will stop parroting "It is a strategy" to highly unfun playstyles. Because it is equally a strategy to play Boil Over and spam Map Offerings which benefit the Perk.
Hypocrisy.
Boil Over is a strategy akin to Basement Bubba as a strategy. They straight-up prevent other players from playing the game, the counterplay is about as enjoyable as watching paint dry, and while they're effective (and that fuels their continued prominence), the driving force behind their use is distressingly often sadism and malice towards the players on the other side.
I consider both equally terrible and think allowing either of them a foothold into the game promotes a breakdown of intended gameplay. Fighting bullshit with bullshit is not the solution.
Ultimately - the people you're railing against here definitely exist, I've seen enough of them around, but I'm the wrong person to direct this at. I've always advocated keeping everyone's fun, or at least avoiding total frustration, in mind and I try not to do things that can come across as meanspirited, even to my own detriment.
@feechima said:
I"m not saying that boil over is not overtuned, but I am saying no one is complaining about the miserable experience with iron grasp, agitation guaranteed to get you camped in the basement from almost anywhere on most maps. But ...just do gens.
The only killer who can do that and then prevent someone from getting you out of the basement is Bubba, and last I checked, he spurs on a tsunami of complaints and heated debate every time he comes up.
Getting camped in the basement against any killer who isn't Bubba or Trapper isn't that big a deal if you have competent teammates with BT. You can win a game with hook trades if you time them right, or get everyone out safely with a coordinated bodyblock save. I don't think Agitation/Iron Grasp in and of themselves are problems, especially when they take half a build on their own.
@RainehDaze said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2773945#Comment_2773945
I thought the difference between bullying and a strategy was an obvious one. If you're bullying, then what you're doing has zero goal in being used to win. If it's a strategy, even if it's unpleasant, it IS a method of advancing the game and winning (or at least losing less).
Bringing an RCPD map offering and running to the library constantly so there is no way to get you to a hook in time, then proceeding to not do gens until you're bored, is not a strategy. The aim is not to do gens, it's just to be frustrating for the other side so they can't win and are wasting their time. Combine with Exponential or some other source of reusable Unbreakable, and the goal obviously isn't "do the gens and escape!", it's "get downed in the safe zone and use the perks to deny hooks".
Maybe the other three players aren't out to bully and will just use this as a distraction. Or maybe they're in a SWF or will otherwise get in on it, like that video a few weeks ago where Survivors didn't even try to touch the gen on the other side of the map for four minutes because they were all too busy flashlight stunning and locker hopping.
I'm seeing plenty of survivors who are using Boil Over to win. They use map offerings and run to zones where the killer can't hook them, but otherwise they're on gens, and so are their teammates. This may be because I'm in solo queue, so obviously I'm not getting matched with 4-man SWFs, but everyone I've seen in action has been using it for a competitive advantage. The killers have either been slugging or facecamping (to force hook trades in lieu of chasing people) anyone they do catch in response.
It's a strategy, but it's a blatantly unfair one that prevents the other player from progressing the match as they should be able to.
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@Astral88 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2774675#Comment_2774675
Says who? You? I guess you are not the game designer. Before this update, it was literally pointless to even attempt to wiggle cause in 99% of all cases and if your team mates don’t take 1k hits, you will not escape.
Now after this update, you’ve a fairer chance to escape if conditions are met. Conditions are: reaching 100% of wiggling bar; 25% is added if the killer is dropping from a height which just is realistically, doesn’t means automatically that you get free after every grasp. Ofc you could make it look like so op, that some ppl needs to run into the forum again and cry for it to get nerfed, but that’s not the point of this game. It’s just an underwhelming experience I’ve made so far from this community, not accepting that, if specific conditions are met, that a player can escape eventually or has any advantages. It’s not like killers already got a lot of advantages. You need to keep stomping more and more!
Guess that’s how it shouldn’t be!
Fair? The killer won the chase. Generally speaking, they're meant to get the hook. If you could wiggle out reliably, the game balance would be an absolute mess.
Wiggling enables team save plays and prevents the killer from hooking you wherever they want. It's not meant to be a get out of being downed free card.
@Nathan13 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2774741#Comment_2774741
I’m sorry but running boil over is no reason to tunnel someone out. Not everyone is using it to be a bully or make the killers match unfun. And it’s not as if many people are gonna use it cause it’s only good on RPD anyway.
I've been playing solo and I've still seen killers take 5+ tries to hook someone several times in one match - Crotus Prenn, Badham. Actually, in 2/3 of the cases, the killer never 'caught' that player, they just gave up focused on someone else. In all of those cases, the killer had to facecamp or mass slug because those players were just buying too much time for the team and chasing was pointless. Whether they were trying to bully the killer or just cheese a win - I guess it matters a little, but certainly not to the killer. It's the difference between a Basement Bubba doing it because he wants salt versus wanting a chill 4k; it's still absolute trash to play against and you're not really going to be any happier about loading into that game if it's case 2.
RPD is the absolute worst case scenario with Boil Over, but there are many maps where with a pinch of luck, you'll have a hook dead zone. I know Thompson House, Saloon, Asylum, and Eyrie can do it.
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It can confuse survivors into thinking you're ~20m away when you're <20m away, and deny information if you're looping a jungle gym or something, but generally it's pretty terrible. The max volume lullaby means you're close enough for survivors to be paying attention, if not running away or hiding outright, so Huntress ain't exactly the best user of Undetectable. You could use it to break off from a chase and ambush someone working on a gen nearby if there's a LoS blocker, I guess, but it's a trick that only works once, if that. Once survivors notice you're running it, they'll pay that extra bit of attention and stop assuming that no TR = 20+m away, and that will often happen before you have any ability to use that Undetectable because it happens on reload and lasts so long.
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@Kurri said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2771231#Comment_2771231
Which they could do all of that before the wiggle changes. The new wiggle system just trims 1 second off your wiggle timer if you get all great skill checks, that's what this thread is about.
Don't worry though, you are right the game is incredibly unbalanced in survivors favor and they have too many options that can be abused to ruin the fun in the game.
They could do all of those things before, yeah - they're just likelier to work, because they don't have 100% success rates. Certainly not every bodyblock or sabo attempt I've seen got the save - if anything, most failed. Everything that falls in the zone of 'the killer reached the hook in ~15.1 to 15.9 repeating seconds' used to mean the killer got the hook, now it means the survivor wiggles off. It's kind of like how there have been times where if I was running STBFL, I'd get the hook, but if I wasn't, hitting the bodyblockers would get survivors the save. Slim margins make a difference in this game - that's why this change is a problem, because it actually switches the outcome of realistic and not-infrequent situations.
People probably aren't going to be perfect unless they're running macros, but at the same time, it's super easy to hit these greats and hitting 80% of them is a pretty reasonable target.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2773659#Comment_2773659
You cant have both.
You cannot really complain about Survivors running the same Perks and complain that Survivors are running different Perks at the same time. This just boils down to "Survivors are not allowed to have anything else than useless Meme-Perks".
I absolutely can. That's no more hypocritical than saying something like "Ruin/Undying/Tinkerer on Blight/Nurse is too oppressive" and then saying "Basement Bubba is bad for the game and should be nerfed" even though Bubba isn't running Ruin, Undying, Tinkerer, Nurse, or Blight.
No matter what people like to complain about with the big... 6? 7? survivor perks, and whether or not I agree with those complaints, they all lead to normal and interactive gameplay. Boil Over doesn't perpetuate dynamic gameplay, it perpetuates spamming map offerings and running to the same corners of the map as soon as you see the killer, and the killer getting all the fun game interactivity of banging their head against a brick wall.
There are so many good perks that aren't quite meta but are well worth running and fit just fine into DBD's gameplay. At no point have I ever made the hyperbolic claims you're ascribing to me. The closest I'll say is that a perk like Boil Over whose effect is to make it harder for the killer to hook you and opens up the possibility of wiggling off without sustained teammate intervention has to be either weak or limited in use, because being able to undo a chase is an extremely powerful thing and an unlimited activation condition being reliable at that is fairly disastrous. DS is a balanced example of how to do this, although I think it could be given a few buffs at this point (no skill check, maybe one use per hook.) Boil Over is not balanced. It's either trash or "the killer can't do anything other than bleed me out because I brought a perk," dependent on how scummy you're willing to play.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Yeah but the killer is a person who wants to play as a killer 😯
Anyways, i don't get why boil over would be a big problem on coldwind?
It would be on Thompson House. The others, I can't imagine it's an issue.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Funny that you complained a few hours ago about all Survivors running the same Perks. And now they are running Boil Over and it is not correct either.
You cannot win with Killer players.
Ah yes, because "the meta is stale and arguably too powerful" means "we should have busted perks that can make it literally impossible to do anything other than stalemate people to death if the players using them don't play normally and keep cheesing them."
These two issues are apples and oranges. One is that normal gameplay is dominated by a small set of very powerful multi-use perks, the other is that troll gameplay is currently way too easy and effective.
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@Cornpopers_Evan said:
If you're talking about the corn maps specifically, they added new sounds to it when you first load in. I don't know why but, I'm guessing it's supposed to represent the animals Billy tortured on his farm which... is quite disturbing honestly.
I did notice that earlier and was a bit freaked out. I wasn't sure if it was due to envelopes or the White Glyph challenge, or... something. Good to narrow it down to Coldwind.
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It does seem to be even sparser than usual. There's two pages in a row where there's just one item on the free track. Between levels 39 and 70, there's 6 things to unlock. That's less than 1 item every 5 levels.
I suspect this is because there's no Saw content on the free track and there's tons of Saw charms this rift, similar to how tome 7 had tons of charms in the free track because all of the L4D content was explicitly free instead of explicitly paid.
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Playing to win isn't desperate, it's just... pressing an advantage you already have.
It's nice when the killer lets up when they're riding a hard snowball, but ask yourself - do you let up as a survivor when you're rolling the killer? If the answer is no, ask yourself why. Is it because you don't want to prolong the match? Is it because you're afraid that giving the killer any slack could result in them taking the advantage and you sacrificing your escape? Is it because the other side probably isn't going to notice or appreciate you being nice to them anyway? Is it because you just don't care? Because all of these things apply to the other side of the game as well.
There are douchey things killers can do, don't get me wrong, and I'd even argue that some effective strategies are on the douchey side, but hanging around the basement because someone was hooked there isn't a dick move and neither is waiting to get the hatch. It is entirely possible that Demo had a challenge for a 4k or to close hatch.
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People waste tons of time racing each other for the envelopes.
That said, I've been getting pretty gen-averse teammates lately, even on top of the event distraction. Had a few matches where someone was left to die on first hook while I was being chased. An absolute chad of a David boosted my faith in soloQmanity last night, though.