Kaitsja
Kaitsja
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Overall, no, but I play in a very altruistic way. I will sacrifice myself to ensure somebody else escapes even in EGC, unless they're being basement camped.
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@CatnipLove said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3488619#Comment_3488619
I wasn't thinking quite that many perk slots, but expanding it by one or two could be interesting.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3488674#Comment_3488674
As long as the change benefitted both sides equally I wouldn't mind things being out of wack. Crazy builds are the best ones.
Oh, I'm sure, but there has been a suggestion before for killers to get 4 extra perk slots when facing a SWF.
Anyway, four perks is the sweet spot. Any more and you throw the balance out of whack as it opens up too much synergy. Crazy builds would just be the tip of the iceberg and neither side would end up being happy.
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No. The fact that there are only 4 perk slots acts as a limitation on what builds you can come up with that would otherwise be way too strong. Let's say we had 8 perk slots, here's a build for both sides that I've come up with off the top of my head.
Killer: Jolt, Pain Res, Enduring, Spirit Fury, Lethal Pursuer, Devour, Undying, Haunted
Survivor: Adrenaline, Made for This, Resilience, Stake Out, Hyperfocus, Built to Last, This is Not Happening, Windows of Opportunity.
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@CamperSluggerVillain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3488569#Comment_3488569
jolt requres you to down someone and isn't free pain res requries a one of 4 hooks on that map that you might not even get it isn't free call of brine is a poor example because it's dead
In order to damage a generator with no perks, you actually need to walk up to the generator and kick it. Jolt is removing that step by damaging generators within a 32 metre radius upon downing a survivor, making it unearned. Pain Res is also unearned, seeing as you only need to hook a survivor on a scourge hook. You'd be hooking them anyway. CoB, regardless of its strength, is also providing unearned information and additional regression.
You're being biased and it shows. Both sides have perks that are relatively risk-free and unearned. Come up with an actual valid complaint instead of this biased nonsense.
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@nars said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3488569#Comment_3488569
CoB is garbage though its like a 6 second difference in regression.
And if we were discussing the difference in strength between perks, your point would be valid. You aren't wrong about that, though.
There's a difference between saying "I think CoB should have its nerf reverted because it's too weak now" and "Survivor has all these crutch perks that don't have to be earned while killer has none and has to earn their perks".
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@CamperSluggerVillain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3488482#Comment_3488482
And yes some S tier survivor perks are in fact crutch perks unbreakble free pick with 0 input what so ever after you outplayed and downed
life can get you free distance at a T-L wall even if the killer makes the right read and outplays you
sprint burst get's you free distance for 0 effort what so ever and any killer that isn't wesker or blight can't do anything about it
balanced rewards you for being out positioned just like sprint burst and let's not forget the newest crutch perk made for this free %3 haste for getting OUTPLAYED at a tile again with 0 input for survivor.
all these perks have one thing in common and that's "oh killer outplayed you? too bad down them again" that's a crutch perk now please list all the killer crutch perks that give you things for free with 0 input oh wait you can't because they're are none. killers have to earn their perks survivors don't hexes don't counter either because their able to be switched off forever.
You realize you're blatantly wrong. Jolt damages generators for you. Pain Res damages the generator with the most progress. Call of Brine causes generators to regress faster and notifies you when survivors hit a good skill check on that gen. There are more perks that I could list, but I'll just stick to those.
It's not like killer perks are any more earned than survivor perks are.
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@nars said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3488474#Comment_3488474
Killer couldnt hold survivor hostage if hatch was gone. If they choose not to down them they do gens. if they do down them they bleed. Not to say either situations are any fun, but they arent hostage situations.
Expecting chases to finish in 20s is ludicrous. BHVR themselves have said they balance for 48s long chases. If chases were 20s long then gen regression wouldnt be necessary.
If survivors split up on gens when you have no pressure, one chase can finish a whole 5th of their objective progress wise. 20 chases dont exists without alch ring blight. Hell, injuring someone gives 20s worth of distance to begin with.
I'm not expecting chases to finish in 20 seconds. That'd be unrealistic. The person I quoted made the dubious claim to have their chases last less than 20 seconds and survivors still manage to finish all the gens.
As for Hatch, the killer can indeed create a hostage situation by refusing to allow the survivor to do gens, refusing to hook them and refusing to let them bleed out. It'd be boring for both sides, so it's unlikely to ever actually happen, but that's apparently why hatch needs to exist.
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@nars said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3488381#Comment_3488381
I get that and all but then by that logic hatch and 4%s should be removed. They failed to stop the killer from downing them all/killing everyone else, so their chances of winning should decrease drastically. with 4%s thats mostly true, in most cases people will end up shredding themselves. But then again why should there be a 1/25 chance they clutch up? Or, if the killer got 3 kills, why should there be a way for the last survivor to escape instantly?
because its not over til its over. I think it'd be nice if basekit BT had its duration decreased to 5 or 6s in endgame, so you at least have a chance to down them after an unhook. Or maybe all survivors lose collision so they cant take protection hits. That sounds kinda drastic and all, but protection hits are balanced around the risk and tradeoff. If theres neither then why should they still be allowed? or maybe the exit gates take 30s to open and regress to 25/30 if left unopened. At least that way they'd need to deal with EGC, a largely redundant mechanic that really only stops hostage situations. im just spitballing here.
Its just dumb how easy endgame is for survivor. If you want, you can just open the gate and leave whenever you want. Its that simple. And unless you are playing a mobile chase killer, you arent catching someone before they reach the gates if they started healthy. Which they absolutely will since adrenaline is the second most used survivor perk.
Hatch exists to prevent hostage situations. No hatch, one survivor left, killer could hold them hostage. I don't really care about hatch, but the odds of actually getting that 4% are so low that it doesn't really matter. As for bodyblocks, that's what you have STBFL for.
@DyingWish92 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3488381#Comment_3488381
I've had games where all my chases were less then 20 seconds start to finish. Winning all mind games and the gens still get done. Tell me how that's outplayed? It's called gen speed is way faster then the killer can do there objective even playing near perfect.
If all your chases took less than 20 seconds start to finish, and it took you a maximum of 30 seconds between chases, there is really no way the survivors should've got all the gens done unless they had toolboxes. Gen speed isn't faster than the killer can do their objective. The game is designed in such a way that you aren't meant to 4k every game.
One survivor working on a gen takes 90 seconfs to complete. Two survivors working on a gen brings it down to around 52 seconds. Three brings it down to 45 seconds. If you have an average chase time of 20 seconds, start to finish, 7 seconds to hook a survivor, that's 27 seconds spent which leaves you with 25 seconds to locate survivors.
So, either your story is cap or you left out important details like whether or not the survivors had toolboxes and perks to make gens go faster.
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You aren't being punished for playing fair and not tunneling. You were outplayed. That's all there is to it.
Sure MFT + Hope is broken, but Hope by itself would've had them escape anyway. Your problem is that once survivors finish those gens, your chances of winning decrease drastically and rightfully so. You, as the killer, failed to prevent the survivors from completing their objective.
What, exactly, do you think Killer should get once all the gens are done since you're clearly upset about hatch and that 4% self-unhook chance? Free hook states? 5% Haste?
Here's the thing about not tunneling: It isn't a free pass to do whatever they want. It's a chance for them to get well away from the hook. If they jump on a gen, try to blind you, bodyblock, or do anything aside from healing, then they're fair game.
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@HamsterEnjoyer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3487642#Comment_3487642
It does infinitely help the average player because if we're using your logic, then you're aware that the average killer will also have a much harder time in countering a survivor who has a 3% faster movement speed. I don't think I'm some e sports level survivor by any means and I think MFT has won me several games I would've lost had I had an exhaustion perk
It helps, sure, but that doesn't make it overpowered nor is it the primary contributing factor as to why they won. I'm not saying the perk isn't strong, because it is, but I still don't see any good reason for the 3% haste to be removed because people haven't figured out how to play around it.
I'd much rather see MFT every game than Sprint Burst every game.
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I'm against the removal of DC penalties. I think the penalty should be harsher for people who DC more than 3 times within a 4 hour period.
DC Penalties discourages people from just abusing the MMR system to tank their rating and get easy matches. Similarly, I don't want the majority of my matches to be with bots.
I don't play killer very often, but when I do, I end up downing the overconfident player fairly quickly which results in them d/cing because they didn't get the perfect start they expected. It just isn't fair to the rest of the team when this happens.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3487685#Comment_3487685
As mentioned previously, that is literally the definition of how hex perks should work. Hexes, in theory, are supposed to be high risk high reward. Because yeah, devour is powerful, but it also can get cleansed 30 seconds into the match. The problem is that most hex perks are terrible now, such that, the only really good ones left are devour, pentimento, haunted ground, undying, and MAYBE plaything. But the reality is that haunted ground, pentimento, and plaything are based around survivors cleansing the totems. Which the only hex perk worth cleansing is devour.
I actually don't disagree with you in principle on hex perks. I personally think they should rework the entire hex system to be less frontloaded and RNG based. Basically i would do this personally:
- Whenever a Hex perk is in play, all dull totems become lit and become hex totems
- Rework all Hex perks to have their power scale with the number of totems remaining. For example
- Hex Ruin: Regresses gens at:
- 5 totems: 200%
- 4 totems: 175%
- 3 totems: 150%
- 2 totems: 125%
- 1 totem: 100%
- 0 totems: gone
- Hex Devour hope: Cleansing a totem, reduces the number of stacks on devour by 1
- Hex Ruin: Regresses gens at:
- When multiple hexes are in play, they are all affected by the same totems, so if you had say devour and ruin, cleansing 1 totem would weaken each one.
Then they rework some of the other perks like haunted ground, plaything, pentimento etc. to do different things or set them up to work in this new system. My personal favorite is that Hex: Undying actually becomes Hex: UNDYING in the sense that, it makes it so your totem always acts as if it has 1 totem remaining even if all totems are cleansed.
These are just numbers examples off the top of my head and i'm sure it would all need tweaking. But the general gist is to normalize hex perks a bit, for both sides too. As mentioned in this thread, it sucks when RNG makes it so you can't find that 1 totem. But in this case, if there are 5 totems that are lit, you'll have more opportunities to cleanse the totems meaning that the hex will get progressively weaker until maybe you can just ignore the perk entirely, or it becomes less of a concern for you. For example, in my example of devour, really you probably only need to cleanse 2 or 3 totems before it doesn't matter because by then they will have already hooked everyone enough times and can't gain any more stacks anyway.
Food for thought.
Whenever a Hex perk is in play, all dull totems become lit and become hex totems
Hex Devour hope: Cleansing a totem, reduces the number of stacks on devour by 1
0 totems: gone
1 totem: 100%
2 totems: 125%
3 totems: 150%
4 totems: 175%
Rework all Hex perks to have their power scale with the number of totems remaining. For exampleHex Ruin: Regresses gens at:5 totems: 200%
When multiple hexes are in play, they are all affected by the same totems, so if you had say devour and ruin, cleansing 1 totem would weaken each one.
Believe it or not, TrU3Ta1ent had a similar idea. The problem with this idea is that hexes would have to be nerfed across the board to be far less powerful. I just don't see killer mains being on board with that idea.
A simpler idea would be to make it so all totems for the first 45 seconds of the trial appear as dull, or add in a corrupt intervention style mechanic for totems to protect them in the early game, ensuring that you will always get some value out of them.
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Hexes are fine. Face the Darkness is a bit annoying, but that's about the only issue I have with Hexes in general. I see [Undying] appear on my screen, I immediately tell my friend to find the hex. The two of us search for it on opposite sides of the map. Undying means Devour, usually.
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@Krazzik said:
I think BHVR puts a bit too much stock in pure data and analytics to the point where if something has an okay win-rate then they don't care what anyone says, that killer/perk is fine. Doesn't matter if they feel miserable to play as or play against.
Saying that though, the last load of kill-rates we saw had Trapper bottom of the table and they STILL said Trapper is in a good place and doesn't need anything. And Trapper being awful is one of the few things the majority of the community can agree upon.
It's both good and bad that they put too much stock in pure data and analytics. Considering how the playerbase reacts to things that inconvenience them even slightly, I think gauging community reaction and making changes based off that would be disastrous.
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@HamsterEnjoyer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3487195#Comment_3487195
Okay but we don't balance around those who can't use it we balance on those who can. If it can be absolutely broken to the point it can win games alone then it should be brought down especially for an asymmetrical game. Its why nurse was hit with nerf after nerf, because they balance it around the top performers.
The 3% haste only becomes broken when survivors play perfectly. The average survivor doesn't play perfectly. They make mistakes. They don't run loops as tight as they can. They second-guess themselves. They get caught on obstacles in the loop. They don't know the exact number of times you can greed a loop, and sometimes they over-greed and get punished for it.
The game is not balanced around the top performers. It's balanced around the average. If it were, Tru3Ta1ent would have nothing to complain about. I think it goes without saying why Nurse was hit with nerf after nerf when you look at just how broken Nurse used to be.
MFT is not winning games by itself. If it were, even average survivors who are somewhat competent at looping would constantly be escaping, but they're not. MFT is still outclassed by exhaustion perks.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3486768#Comment_3486768
I agree but those player are often playing injured because it is too time-inefficient to heal. survivor do want to heal but they will not heal at cost of losing games. they will only heal when it makes sense to do so. as for sloppy butcher, sloppy butcher is an anti-healing perk so by the design name, it is suppose to discourage you from healing. self-healing is not suppose to be viable when an anti-heal perk is used otherwise what is the point of an anti-heal perk that is ineffective at anti-healing? right? altruistic healing is still viable if you are an efficient team under sloppy butcher but you need efficiency and coordinate to find people to heal and to heal at correct time. altruistic healing becomes ineffective when it takes longer then ~25 seconds to do. at that point, your better off just playing injured entire game. if you played ptb with 24 second healing, you'll understand how long healing like that takes from survivor POV.
Console players don't get access to the PTB 🥲
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@HamsterEnjoyer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3486777#Comment_3486777
Bloodlust goes up in increments of 5->2.5->2.5 and the way you word it makes it sound like MFT needs time to activate '1% per tier' MFT activates instantly and 3% for survivors is infinitely more powerful than even 10% for killers lmao
I'm running on like 4 hours of sleep. When I said Tiers in relation to Made for This, I was referring to the perk tiers. Tier 1 Made for This is 1% Haste.
Now, I won't argue the perk isn't strong because it is, but is it overpowered like all the complainers are making it out to be? Hardly. It's still outclassed by Sprint Burst, and the 3% doesn't guarantee you distance like old Dead Hard did. You also have to already be injured to get value from it, and you have to run loops perfectly in order for the perk to actually seem broken.
Your average survivor isn't a god-looper who knows exactly how many times they can greed a loop before they have to leave that loop. The game isn't balanced for high mmr. That's about the long and short of it. Should it lose the Endurance effect? Sure. But the 3% Haste thing? Not OP.
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Because it's nice having a perk that isn't an exhaustion perk. SB is still leagues better than MFT. You want distance from being hit? You've got Overcome for that. You need to get out of a loop ASAP? Lithe. MFT has saved my hide more times than I can count, but only because of killers who misjudged the distance needed for a lunge to connect. It's allowed me to reach a pallet that I would've been downed at because the killer has played predictably.
You know what's better than trading a health state for 3% haste? Not getting hit in the first place.
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@nars said:
MFT: Free chase extension that thrives on bad killer design and horrendous maps
Bloodlust: Something to help bad killers deal with horrendous maps
Hmm...... kinda seems like their completely different besides having the same effect.
Bloodlust was initially introduced to help killers combat infinites. There are no true infinites in the game anymore. While maps are bad, they certainly aren't bad enough to warrant up to 15% haste.
Made for This does nothing for bad survivors. It doesn't take a bad survivor and suddenly make them into a god looper. It doesn't really make good survivors "better" at looping, it just makes it more likely that they will make that pallet/window.
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@GrimReaperJr1232 said:
Well, there's something I don't think you're accounting for.
Unlike SB, MFT has a second effect of being an anti slug perk. Heck, doesn't even need to be a slug; just heal someone in general. Heal someone you get 10 sec Endurance. Just because.
Furthermore, SB exist to help you reach resources. MFT does that (if you're injured, obviously) but also makes those resources stronger since you're still faster while able to loop tighter than the killer.
I agree it's weaker against the already top tier killers but... so was Original MoM. It doesn't make the perk fair.
I've been running MFT for awhile now, and I can count on one hand the amount of times I've gotten value from the endurance part of the perk.
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@fearsxoxo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3486626#Comment_3486626
thats really really high if you ask me ! that means you escape almost every 2 game !
In what world is that a high escape rate?
Look bud, the game is mostly fine. I dabble in killer every now and again. Played a few games just the other day. First game as Plague, I stomped. Second game as Plague, I lost. Third game as Ghostface, I won (against a three-man swf flashlight squad). Fourth game as Ghostface I got a 2k on Lery's but ran out of hooks so missed out on a 3k. Fifth game as Ghostface, I lost with zero kills. No big deal, it happens. The survivors were simply better than me.
I stopped playing killer after that since I farmed enough BP. At a guess, I'd say I'm mid-MMR. Not high enough that all I get are meta sweats, but also not low enough that all I get are potatoes who bring technician and miss every skill check.
@fearsxoxo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3486676#Comment_3486676
if 4 persons escape every 39% of the games ! thats high in a survival game. thats almost every 2 games ! not sure what you wrote but i know you refered to that statement ! in other words thats means that 39% of the game the killers are left with no kills !
That's not how that math works bud. It means that on average, less than two survivors make it out alive at high mmr per trial.
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@Sava18 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3486761#Comment_3486761
MFT is so much better than blood lust. If a killer really has to get BL 2 or 3 to down you, they aren't winning regardless.
MFT, IW and Resilience is carrying me on survivor right now.
Some maths: It takes 90 seconds to repair a generator solo. Cut that in half if repairing with one other survivor. BL1 is 15 seconds. BL2 is 25. BL3 is 35. 25 Seconds to down a survivor, about 7 seconds to hook them. Depending on perks like Eruption, Pain Resonance and Jolt, there's a good chance that survivors aren't making it out if you're getting a hook roughly every 32 seconds.
Each tier of Bloodlust is 5% haste. Made for This is 1% per tier. With just Made for This, a survivor will have a maximum base speed while running of 103%. At Bloodlust 2, a 115% killer goes up to 125%. That extra 10% means you're more likely to catch the survivor at a loop, or down them before they make a pallet or window.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3486741#Comment_3486741
i highly doubt that playing injured is voluntary choice in most cases. it is more often lack of coordination to heal/inability to heal for most players.
When you're at mid MMR, there's a very noticable amount of survivors who intentionally play injured to benefit from perks like resilience and made for this. At high MMR, those players become more common.
Now, these playstyles weren't uncommon before the healing nerfs but there were definitely fewer players voluntarily playing injured. I won't bore you with the math, but prior to the global healing nerf, self-care took around 45 seconds to go from injured to healthy. After the healing nerf, that number went up by about 23 seconds.
Throw on Sloppy for an extra 20%, and you're looking at around 90-something seconds. Throw on Pentimento for an extra 30%, and you're probably looking at 120 seconds to heal. I say probably because dbd math is weird, and difficult. It makes people avoid healing altogether when it's taking you a full solo generator repair to heal.
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@Uxoxe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/383896/i-miss-old-coh-and-medkits-so-much-man
Killers don't seem to be realizing that healing is what was slowing down gen speeds.
Survivors are spending all that "healing time" on doing gens now. Killers really have no right at all to complain about gen-speeds when they don't want survivors ability to heal to be valuable. You make healing so useless that survivors don't value it, then all they do is gens. I know I'll just do gens injured now.
Healing-time use to give killers a bit of a breather, while survivors reset by healing.
I'd say the game is actually worse for the healing changes. Killer have to constantly keep survivors off gens which is stressful, no time to breath while survivors reset using healing. And look at all the Killer complaints about gen times being too fast. It's all related to the healing nerf.
I have to agree with this. It was a massive oversight on BHVR's part to nerf self-care, gut CoH, nerf altruistic healing speeds, and nerf medkits.
As @jesterkind pointed out, though, prior to the healing nerfs there just wasn't enough time being spent on healing to actually slow down generators by any meaningful amount.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Girl just say wraith and legion we know what you are talking about
And self care needs to be DELETED not updated or nerfed of buffed just Removed
Why? What did self care do to warrant being removed?
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7, 8 Gonna tunnel the Kate
As a Kate main, I feel that one.
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@BlueRose said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3480036#Comment_3480036
Is it really a reward if I have to take the time to get to BL3 and then hear 2 to 3 gens popping after I get a down? If any killer is depending on BL3 to get a single down they already losing pretty badly and really not getting rewarded at all. Personally, I want BL2 and BL3 gone just so teaches ppl to leave chases more than stay with them but to say the killer is getting rewarded isn't really true. It's not a reward if it means you going to overall lose the match.
It doesn't matter if it costs you the match. The reward is that you're pretty much guaranteed a down at that point. It rewards you for playing badly.
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Tunneling is deliberately targeting the same survivor after they've been unhooked. It isn't tunneling if you've hooked someone else in-between. Likewise it isn't tunneling if they deliberately bodyblock you or try to blind you.
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@Annso_x said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3476174#Comment_3476174
The way you went from "the perk shouldn't be made useless" to suggesting nerfs that would make it useless in the same post is admirable
Wouldn't make it useless. It'd define it strictly as a chase perk. The perk currently provides the following effects:
Whenever you are in the Injured State Made for This activates and you benefit from the following effects:
- Gain a 1/2/3 % Haste Status Effect while running.
- Gain the Endurance Status Effect for 6/8/10 seconds after completing a Healing action on another Survivor.
My proposed nerf would remove the Endurance status effect and replace it with a downside to incentivise healing. The most common complaint about MFT is how survivors aren't healing while running it, which leads to it always being active.
A build centered around MFT would be something like Resilience, Made For This, Hope, and Windows of Opportunity. Resilience provides you with up to 9% increased Action speeds. WoO shows you the locations of Pallets and Vaults. Hope activates once the exit gates are powered and provides you with up to 7% haste. Stacked with MFT, that makes you equal to a 110% killer, which is absolutely busted.
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@Crowman said:
People complain about the expose on bloodlust, but I have legit not seen killers use it 99% of the games I've played as survivor during the event. I saw it used twice, with one time outlasting the expose because I made the pallet in time. Then I had 2 other killers attempt to do it (assuming for the challenge) and I just stopped running to break chase since I was already in hit range anyways.
Anyways, survivors can handle 1 event where the killer has the advantage after the snowmen event from 2 years ago.
The reason you don't see killers use it is because it's very finnicky. I would've liked to have seen it act as a remote bamboozle the same as what survivors get. Would've been funny to see who gets it first.
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Failure isn't the right word. But they were definitely poorly implemented with a lot of them being useless. I'd like to see them reworked in the future. Especially the ones on Gideon.
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@tippy2k2 said:
I found that the game became CONSIDERABLY better when I just stopped caring about whether I escaped or not.
Sure, sometimes I get killed because I make bad choices with this attitude but I find the game is way more fun when I'm willing to take chances, play with the more fun perks instead of the meta, and overall just not giving a F anymore.
Maybe that's just me taking a huge sniff of COPIUM every game but that does mean that I get to enjoy the game a lot more so if it is that, I'll gladly keep on huffin it.
The game is considerably better when you don't actually care about whether or not you win. I have infinitely more fun than high skill players by being indifferent towards winning/losing. I care about having fun, and a generally enjoyable experience.
For me, that means I get to do a gen or two, get chased by the killer, and go for rescues. If someone gets hooked in the endgame, you can bet your bottom dollar I'll try to help them escape even if it means making a trade.
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@Blueberry said:
Not really comparable. If the killers is needing bloodlust to get hits he’s already losing the game anyway since he doesn’t have that much time to waste on chases. Bloodlust is also still a bandaid fix for the multitude of extremely safe and unbalanced tiles still existing in the game, so currently still necessary.
Bloodlust 1 is a bandaid for bad map rng, but without any true infinites in the game anymore there really isn't any need for BL2 and BL3 as they just reward you for playing badly.
@lav3 said:
I think you are ignoring the fact that most strong killers don't need Bloodlust.
Weak killers are already losing interest because of MfT and now they should lose BL? lol
A lot of the killers people say are weak is simply a case of them not being good at those specific killers. "Weak" killers aren't losing interest because of MFT. They were losing interest before MFT because killers like Wesker, who are infinitely more fun to play as and against, exist.
And yeah, strong killers don't need bloodlust but is that any excuse when they benefit from it all the same?
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@jessiejanemuerto said:
This is my favorite part "It's completely BS to be given a BONUS just for getting hit". and thats because youre a killer main that you think so. It's completely BS to be given BLOODLUST just for sucking at loops for 15 seconds. Wait, it doubles after 30? and triples after 45? Give me a break.
Doubles after 25, triples after 35.
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Hmm, as a Kate main I'm going to have to say
Kate, Kate, and Kate with the killer being Kate. 😂
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Buffing can lead to powercreep, which is bad. Trapper will always be perceived as weak due to the requirement of having to setup rather than already having a web to drive Survivors toward.
Plague's power is linked to survivors choosing to cleanse. If they don't, then the only way she can get her power is to run the iri add-on that gives her Corrupt Purge after a generator is repaired, but shortens the duration. Her other add-ons basically revolve around infection, which puts her in a similar boat to where Ghostface was before his add-on pass.
I wouldn't consider Doctor to be a weak killer. Trickster, like other killers, suffers from map design and the rng of tile spawns. I don't really see how he can be perceived as "weak" if you're good with your knives.
Pig is weak due to outdated design, and Sadako suffers from the same problem that Plague suffers from in that her power is in the hands of the survivors.
I've heard some people say Clown is weak, and tbh, I just don't see it. Bottles impair vision and inflict Hindered, with an alternative bottle for a speed boost.
Weak killers aren't necessarily weak because of their power. Sometimes they're weak because they have weak add-ons, their power can be held hostage by survivors, or just map design and rng. That last one is something every killer suffers with to some degree.
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MFT isn't making Clown unplayable. In fact, I'd argue that anybody who is actually good at clown would have no problems dealing with MFT.
Plague, on the other hand, suffers from the lack of perks that provide incentive for survivors to be healthy. We need more perks like Thana, since Plague's power primarily stems from survivors cleansing. Plague's add-ons are not great to put it mildly. But this isn't exactly new information. These issues existed before MFT.
Pig was bad before MFT, what's new?
Doc gets outplayed by survivors even without MFT.
Knight's whole gameplay loop revolves around forcing survivors into a 3-gen and using guards to patrol gens while you're in chase. Guards are not meant to play the game for you.
A good Slinger will land their shots 90% of the time. If you're going to play a ranged killer, you need to be good with their power otherwise you're just going to get stomped by better survivors.
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@KateMain86 You hear that? "Kates are usually so altruistic and they will do anything to save you. I like Kate players." Kate mains be getting some recognition around here. 😂
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@EmmaFrostyEyes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3476639#Comment_3476639
Nah. After the killer use the event thing to break a pallet, you cant make distance since they can break it while moving to zone you out
Depends on the loop. On some, you don't really have anywhere else to go. That being said, I think it'd make for an interesting perk.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3476195#Comment_3476195
The biggest problem with Doc is you need to work with 3 main variables just to use your basic power. First you need to adjust to each individual Survivor's latency, as a shock working on the 40ms Dwight doesn't work on the 120ms Meg. Secondly you have to worry about the basekit .5s delay on the shock even affecting them, with add-ons to reduce the time to shock helping and hurting at different loops. Finally using the power has to typically be done without LOS, so you need to place the cone so that all options are cut off.
I respect every Doc who gets hits reliably, but the latency problem alone makes me hate playing as him. I shouldn't have to hit escape mid-chase and check the Surv's current ping in order to actually play effectively.
Again, valid points but I would not even remotely consider throwing Doc a bone outside of fixing his latency issues unless he got some nerfs to his tracking. If they nerfed his tracking, I'd be more than happy for Shock Therapy to only slow him down from 4.6m/s to 4.0m/s instead of the current 3.08m/s.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3476422#Comment_3476422
How would you know this?
You can´t know this until you have chased and injured all survivors.
Then how do you know that MFT is resulting in survivors who aren't running the perk having a higher escape rate? You don't.
You established that if one person is running it, then by virtue of it extending chases the survivors not running it are escaping more frequently, which brings us back around to over-committing to a chase.
If you already know there's only one MFT in the lobby, then you target the ones without it. If you haven't managed to determine that yet, the feasibility of doing so is another matter entirely.
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If you buff Deep Wound, you indirectly buff Legion while also indirectly nerfing Endurance. Deep Wound slows down healing. It takes 12 seconds to mend solo. Add that onto however long it takes you to heal (24 seconds with medkit, 45 seconds with self-care) and you're looking at 36 - 57 seconds spent not on a generator.
Deep Wound is already a tedious part of the game that nobody really wants to deal with, but its existence is necessary. Adding deafened into the mix is just going to annoy survivors even more than having to mend repeatedly already does.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3476323#Comment_3476323
Not over-commiting. But being able to reach a pallet or window, with the extra speed. Can prolong the chase considerably. Which in return gives the teammates more time to repair gens = higher escape rate.
Also, with 3-4 survivors using the perk, where does the normal chase for a down end and where does over-commiting really start?
But if you know that only one out of four survivors has MFT, would it not make sense to ignore the one with MFT and target the ones without?
If all four are running it, then there is no distinction to be made between a normal chase and a chase in which you've over-committed.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3472258#Comment_3472258
The Problem i see is, that in the past, the devs also didn´t see a problem with other perks like OoO or DS. Just because their stats didn´t show an overwhelming high escape rate for survivors that used those perks. While ignoring, that those perks increased the escape rate of everyone else.
But we´ll see.
So, what you're saying here is that MFT is increasing the escape rate of survivors not running MFT because you're over-committing to a chase. Is that correct?
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3475089#Comment_3475089
The drawback is you cannot pair this with any other Exhaustion perk (other than DH+Iron Will, but DH doesn't apply to first down). I don't have a problem with MfT on 90% of the Killer cast, because I would be more frustrated or slowed down by an effective Sprint Burst or Lithe or Balanced Landing. The only Killers I 100% agree it makes life miserable for are Huntress, Doctor, and Knight.
Huntress forces you to snipe the rounded corner shots, or above the loop. Doctor is slowed far far far too much against MfT that you only lose distance, so you are effectively without a power until the pallet is dropped. Knight's Guards are too slow to catch up to MfT, but Knight is horrible to play against to begin with, so nothing of value is lost. Huntress can use skill to still win at loops, so you only lose on an off day or if you were bad with Huntress to begin with. Doctor is the only Killer unfairly impacted by the perk. Doc is horribly outdated regardless, and if he got Wesker's bugged grab effect at vaults (teleporting Survivors before the vault even if mid-vault) then he would be playable. Miserable to go against, just as bugged Wesker is, but playable.
I still think the Endurance effects should be removed/swapped to another perk, Buckle Up being a prime contender, but that is the only nerf MfT needs.
While your points about Doctor are quite valid, I would argue that Doctor is also a very easy killer to play with how much you get from him.
- Locate survivors within your terror radius (32m default) via Static Blast.
- Shock Therapy interrupts Survivors actions and suppresses their ability to interact with pallets/vaults for 2.5 seconds.
- Madness Tier 1: Skill Checks have a 33% chance to be Madness Skill Checks.
- Madness Tier 2 causes Survivors to hallucinate in the form of Illusory Doctors, and skill checks have a 66% chance to be Madness Skill Checks.
- Madness Tier 3 causes Survivors to scream intermittently and experience hallucinations in the form of Illusory Doctors. Skill Checks have a 100% chance to be Madness Skill Checks. Suppresses the ability of Survivors to interact both with other Survivors, and Props. Suppresses the ability of Survivors to use their Items.
- When Madness tiers up Survivors scream once, revealing their location to The Doctor.
That's before getting into add-ons that give you more information such as Iri King which lets you see illusionary red stains as well as the auras of illusionary Doctors and illusionary pallets.
So while Doctor is a weaker, more outdated killer, there is no denying just how much he has going for him in comparison to other killers who have to patrol gens to find survivors and make deductions based on generator progress and whether or not there are any scratch marks nearby.
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I'm not against a change to Made for This, but if that change is gutting the perk to the point of uselessness, then the discussion isn't constructive or reasonable.
I think that it would be for the best if the endurance aspect were removed from it, and a downside were added to it that incentivises survivors to heal. Example: Whenever you are in the Injured State, Made for This activates and you benefit from the following effects:
- Gain a 1/2/3 % Haste Status Effect while running.
- You suffer from a 5/10/15 % penalty to Repairing while injured.
Alternatively, a token system would also work where for every x amount of seconds spent injured while not in chase, lose a token. Once all tokens are gone, the perk deactivates for the remainder of the trial.
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@Blueberry said:
While in Deep Wounds you are Deafened. This makes it way more scary as you really need to make sure you’re safe when you’re doing it. Also works as a buff/nerf to some other killers/perks/addons that could use them.
Deep Wounds doesn't need a buff.
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@Meepy13 said:
I feel like with dredge you're very rarely having survivors be warned of your presence because of terror radius, because the teleport fx is the warning. It's not common for you to ever actually walk to a gen, only specific circumstances where there's a lack of lockers. Would running distressing + perks that synergise with distressing be that detrimental to dredge?
I think it's more important to assess what kind of build you want to go for first and then decide which killers that's suited to.
As an example, Legion's a hit-and-run type killer. Survivors aren't going to heal if they're having to mend and heal every ~45 seconds. So you're not going to get much, if any, value out of running Distressing, Coulrophobia, Unnerving Presence and Leverage. The same goes for killers like Pig, Ghostface and Wraith. Plague, on the other hand, provides Survivors with a free source of healing via her pools of devotion so long as they're infected.
Dredge is an interesting spot since Nightfall builds faster with more survivors injured, but at the same time you're primarily traversing via lockers. Consider how the build you want to run is going to work in relation to your chosen Killer's power.
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@Botiz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3475560#Comment_3475560
Not necessarily.
Made For This has very little requirement for huge reward with the 3% movement speed bonus - all you need to do is become injured.
Pain Res is dependant upon RNG and which hooks become Scourge Hooks and you still need to spend all that time chasing, downing and carrying the survivor to the hook. Some games you may only get 1 token of value from it, or none at all.
As for Jolt, it has a radius limitation and you need to down survivors in the radius of progressed generators.
So whilst in your experience you may see Pain Res and Jolt in almost every game, there is much more effort required and many more limitations and restrictions with these perks that make them much more balanced perks in comparison to the infinite 3% movement speed bonus from MfT just for being injured.
I believe Otz said it best, "Made For This is very, very, very, strong but you won't get much value out of it running in a straight line. You really feel it as killer when running tight loops due to the survivor's smaller hitbox." Or something along those lines anyway.
I get where people are coming from with the comparison to old DH, but at the same time that was used in situations to guarantee that you make the pallet/vault. Made For This allows you to make the pallet/vault you would've made anyway if the killer didn't have bloodlust. There have been innumerable times where I would've made a pallet or vault, but didn't because the killer had that 5% haste. At BL1, the difference is 2% which means that the distance at which you would usually lunge, you'll come up just short.
Made For This is the kind of perk where if you nerf the haste bonus, then it becomes useless. Likewise, if you slap a cooldown on it, it becomes useless. The only nerf to it that could work is removing the endurance aspect of it, which would be fine.
I think that it would be for the best if the endurance aspect were removed from it, and a downside were added to it that incentivises survivors to heal. As an example, Made for This activates and you benefit from the following effects:
- Gain a 1/2/3 % Haste Status Effect while running.
- You suffer from a 5%/10%/15% penalty to Repairing while injured.
Alternatively, a token system would also work where for every x amount of seconds spent injured while not in chase, lose a token. Once all tokens are gone, the perk deactivates for the remainder of the trial.
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@BlueRose said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3475168#Comment_3475168
Not if they refuse to cleanse which has been a counter for her for a while. You get few fountains to use and after that you have to depend on survivors cleansing. If they don't (which most who running MfT won't cleanse) you become a m1 killer who is tall and survivors can easily see you. Mind gaming as plague is already a challenge and MfT in the hands of decent survivors hands make it wrost. Yeah I eventually down them but so much time was wasted while doing so I'll lose multiple generators in just few chases.
Survivors need incentive to cleanse. Unfortunately, bhvr sees the effect of being broken as good enough incentive, and for the average survivor it is. Against more skilled survs, Thana is good, but at only 12% at max it's not enough incentive for survivors who work on gens together.
Plague does have a way of getting her power without survivors cleansing, but then you'd have to run an endgame build.
You are free to interpret this as a "buff plague/buff thana" post.