Kaitsja
Kaitsja
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@DredgeyEdgey said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3475081#Comment_3475081
My bad 5% if you have more than 1 stack of blood lust your doing something wrong then
Bloodlust starts at 15 seconds. You reach tier 2 after 25 seconds, and tier 3 after 35 seconds. There used to be a larger gap between tier 2 and tier 3 before the bloodlust buff. Generally, if the survivor has a headstart on you, a chase should take between 25 seconds and 35 seconds.
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@BlueRose said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3474826#Comment_3474826
By a lot of perks you mean 4 perks, two of which involve healing(one of those only works if the survivors are healing in the killer's TR), and one has a min cooldown on it... As for addons not all killers have an addon that causes exhaustion, like plague you force to run Bloodecho bc she doesn't have an addon that causes exhaustion.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/DJBW5FE2G4BI/2023-07-06-19-08-35-greenshot.png
Plague's whole thing is downing survivors with her corrupt purge.
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@DredgeyEdgey said:
But people seem to notice a 4% increase from blood lust and think it should go and you can feel it when playing killer, alot
Bloodlust is 5% per stack, up to 15%.
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@YukariTheAlpaca said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3474571#Comment_3474571
This kind of balancing mentality is what makes the game awful to play right now.
Just because a game isn't "E-Sports" or "highly competitive" doesn't mean you shouldn't try to balance the game to the best of your ability.
What makes games fun for most people is fairness and expressing skill. The idea that the game needs to be competitive or "E-Sports ready" is a terrible reason not have good balance in Dead By Daylight. Imagine playing any video game and feeling like you don't have a chance to win, or that chance is extremely unlikely for you, but easy for your opponent. I hate to break it to you, but having fun for most people is WINNING. Most people don't care about farming, giving hatch, being nice, and having "funny moments" unless they are brand new to the game or don't even really have their brains turned on while playing.
Regardless of player skill, DBD's entire chase gameplay loop revolves around movement speed. I personally don't think perks should ever effect movement speed because of how important the speeds of both survivor and killer are by default. With MFT equipped, you can stop potential mindgames from working at tiles due to your increased speed as survivor and completely negate what would have been a successful hit for the killer, even if just barely. Not to mention activating it's effects award the survivor for FAILURE by requiring they be injured in the first place. There is no time a survivor SHOULD EVER WANT TO BE INJURED PERIOD. From the beginning, survivors have always had perks designed around the idea of failure, while killer perks are usually designed around winning harder. The design philosophy of survivor perks is way stronger than killer perk designs because they stop potential snowballs and award survivors for making mistakes. Mistakes are needed for the killer to start pressure, so these perk designs directly counter the way for a killer to start pressure, while the killer's own perks award them for a match they were most likely going to win anyways. By the way, perks like "No One Escapes Death" and "Rancor" shouldn't exist either. Terrible designs that award failure.
How is a movement speed boost while injured "map-dependant"? So because survivors are playing poorly it is okay that MFT is one of the best survivor perks in the game right now? The problem is that even if the killer does loop efficiently, they still get nothing out of it, even if the survivor is not as efficient at looping due to the increased movement speed.
On fairness and expressing skill: The only way Survivors can express skill is by looping. Perks take players who are already good and aid in making them better, but make no mistake that those same players would stomp you even with no perks.
Balancing is done around the average skilled player, because DBD is not highly competitive. It is not an e-sport. I get that most people don't care about being nice, farming, etc. But you can't sit at high mmr and complain that you're getting stomped all the time at high mmr when you know how the system works.
"With MFT equipped, you can stop potential mindgames from working at tiles due to your increased speed as survivor and completely negate what would have been a successful hit for the killer, even if just barely." I can't count the innumerable times where a killer has only managed to down me because of bloodlust. Was that skillful on their part? No. Did they do anything special to earn that? No. You talk about how haste affects mindgames, well guess what Bloodlust is? Bloodlust is haste, and the only reason it existed was to deal with true infinites which no longer exist. 3% vs 3 stacks of 5%, which is stronger?
If the killer loops a structure efficiently, and a survivor does not, the killer will still catch them. On maps where there are small loops, a 115% killer will catch them. It doesn't make bad survivors god loopers. Bad survivors are still bad with MFT. Good survivors are still good without MFT. It's a lot of malding over a perk that is only seen commonly at high MMR and almost non-existent at the average skill level.
"From the beginning, survivors have always had perks designed around the idea of failure, while killer perks are usually designed around winning harder." So it's okay for killers to have win-harder perks but not survivors. What happened to fairness and skill expression?
"How is a movement speed boost while injured "map-dependant"? So because survivors are playing poorly it is okay that MFT is one of the best survivor perks in the game right now? The problem is that even if the killer does loop efficiently, they still get nothing out of it, even if the survivor is not as efficient at looping due to the increased movement speed." MFT is map dependent in that you need long loops to get value out of it. At a short loop, the killer's base movement speed allows them to catch up. MFT isn't one of the best survivor perks in the game right now at all. It's overrated, and honestly only sees maximum value at high mmr where you are dealing with god loopers.
"Mistakes are needed for the killer to start pressure, so these perk designs directly counter the way for a killer to start pressure, while the killer's own perks award them for a match they were most likely going to win anyways." I've seen killers win a lot of matches they rightfully should've lost, but only won because they stacked slowdown perks. I've played against killers that only won because they tunneled someone out of the game at 5 gens. I've played against killers that only won because they brought a full hex build with Undying allowing them to get Haunted Grounds twice. Mistakes are needed for the killer to build pressure, but mistakes on the killer's part are also needed for the survivors to escape. It goes both ways.
Players of average skill make plenty of mistakes. They second-guess themselves. They don't loop as efficiently as they should. As far as the average-skilled player is concerned, the game is balanced. Maps are a big issue, and Bhvr is slowly addressing them. They're also addressing strong structures, like they did with Shack on Saloon by giving it a breakable wall.
I'm not above admitting that MFT is a strong perk, but I wouldn't call it one of the best in the game. I'm also not above admitting Bloodlust is necessary due to maps and unbalanced tile spawns. It's very likely MFT will see a decline in popularity by the next chapter as people return to perks that simply discourage the killer from chasing them in the first place. All that being said, however, I don't see why a perk should be nerfed into the ground simply for being strong, especially not when there are counters to it.
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@daffyd said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3474195#Comment_3474195
"Be real about it made for this by itself isn't broken" - Yes it is. I find that survivors who become injuried are stronger with perks... how on earth should this be possible?
"it's the stacking haste thats annoying people, survivor shouldnt be able to stack past 15%" - Nothing to do with stacking, loops were designed for years/months ago for certain speeds.
" but I honestly havent had an issue with that because it requires multiple survivors off gens to pull it off properly which in turn throws the game to make it happen," - This means nothing, perhaps I have misunderstood but to get off a gen you'd have to be chased?
" if you're getting outplayed with made for this alone it's a skill issue" outplayed? Have you played high mmr without this perk? If so, imagine how it is now!
" and not only that but there are perks that can directly counter it due to the exhaustion stopping it from being active," - Lets get this right, to play against a broken perk at loops which were designed for average speed survivors ... the killer needs to use perks to cause exhaustion* (under certain circumstances)... thats your work around?
" people acting helpless on here are the same ones who have a problem with anything BHVR does it'll never change no matter what they do." - Google Huntress 110% killer on Ormond with survivors running this broken perk if you need to see helpless... no acting with Nic Cage is needed.
If you are low ranked then you only need to ask BHVR to show you it now being meta... because why would a perk that isn't broken not be meta in high tier matches?
Stop. DBD is not balanced around high MMR. I cannot stress this enough. If you are playing at high MMR and find yourself complaining about efficient survivors, here's a hint: Humble yourself, give people hatch, be satisfied with a 2k instead of pushing yourself to get the 4k. If you get none, so be it.
Dead by Daylight is not an esport. E-sports are boring. They cater not to the average player, but to the high skill player who plays like they're trying out for Nationals. Now, I'm sure you think that that's what you want, and that's how the game should be, but you are not the majority. The majority is the average player.
In average-skilled matches where the killer and the survivor are closely matched in terms of skill, MFT makes minimal difference. This applies to Huntress, Slinger, Wraith, Dredge, Sadako, Pyramid Head, Pinhead, Doctor, Knight, Singularity, Skull Merchant, Clown, Freddy, Spirit, Blight, Nurse.
I am, by no means, a god-looper but I do have some knowledge on how to effectively loop and chain tiles together. But I have seen people run MFT and get downed 15 seconds into chase. I personally run MFT and have found that it mainly helps me in making that ever so tiny distance needed to make the pallet. The perk is very map dependent, and heavily relies on the killer not looping efficiently.
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@Leachy_Jr said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3473957#Comment_3473957
I would say remove the 3% aspect of it, or nerf it down to 1%. Too much of an impact with decent survivors.
Which would take it down to being an absolute garbage perk and having no functional value whatsoever. I guess survivors just can't have strong perks because they'd have "too much impact with decent survivors" /s
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@Leachy_Jr said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3472203#Comment_3472203
The only divisive part is how much you want the perk nerfed, not whether it should be nerfed or not.
Even people who defend the 3% think it does too much for 1 perk slot due to the endurance and haste effects.
Personally, I want the perk absolutely obliterated into the ground, but I wouldn't of minded just a slight nerf to show that they at least understand it's very/too strong.
So then strip the Endurance part of it. Not like your average survivor is getting much value out of the secondary effect anyway. I personally don't see MFT as a problem. At the average skill-level, both survivors and killers make enough mistakes that it balances out. At the lower end of the skill scale, you've got survivors who go down in 15 seconds. At the higher end of the skill scale, you've got survivors who would run you for multiple gens even without MFT.
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@WaveyTrey said:
Killer
1.) Hex: Bare the Burden: When a survivor becomes injured this hex activates. Whenever a healthy survivor heals an injured survivor to healthy without a Health Kit, Boon, or cooperative healing the healthy becomes injured. Injured survivors can see each other’s auras. If all survivors are injured they’re afflicted with 5% Hindered status while not in a chase. This perk deactivates when all survivors become healthy.
2.) Blind Rage: When you are blinded by a survivor gain a token, up to 2 tokens. Upon gaining 2 tokens Blind Rage activates. When this perk activates the person who blinded you becomes the new obsession. While chasing the obsession gain 5% Haste for each token. If the obsession is downed by any means you lose all tokens.
3.) Scourge Hook: Utter Silence: 4 random hooks become scourge hooks. After hooking a survivor gain the Undetectable status for 15 seconds. Whenever the hooked survivor is unhooked gain the Undetectable status for 15 seconds.
Survivor
1.) You Can’t Catch Me: For every 15 seconds in a chase with a killer gain a token up to 3. For each token gain 5% Haste. If you lose a health state during chase you lose all tokens. If you are one hook state before death and are in the injured state the secondary ability is activated. Upon getting 3 stacks in a chase lose all tokens. You are shielded the next time you would be put into the dying state. If the secondary ability is used the perk deactivates for the remainder of the trial.
2.) Let there be Light: This perk can only be used while healthy, and not one hook away from instant death. While repairing a generator press the ability button. Instantly repair the generator. Using Let there be Light summons The Entity, instantly killing the survivor who used the ability.
3.) Deadman Walking: If you were to die from being downed instantly recover from the dying state instead. When you become healthy your aura is revealed to the killer for 4 seconds. The next time you are downed after becoming healthy you can be killed by the killer.
Blind Rage is like a worse PWYF. Scourge Hook: Utter Silence is pretty bad for a Scourge perk. Hex: Bare the Burden (Spelling correction: Bear, not Bare) is a relatively useless hex.
You Can't Catch Me is just blatantly overpowered. After 45 Seconds, a Survivor would be equal to a 115% killer which means that you would never catch them. Let There Be Light is a self-sacrifice perk that would be useful in breaking three-gens, but would be absolutely useless and detrimental outside of that. Deadman Walking implies that your bleedout meter is basically empty which means that you'll die within a couple of seconds of being downed. Pretty bad perk tbh.
Honest assessment of these perk ideas is that they're all bad.
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@GlamourousLeviathan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3472187#Comment_3472187
How come? Even if they aren't that coordinated, they still have MUCH more information than a solo. Also, even if all SWFs aren't like that, the fact that some can go to that degree just shows how absurd it is.
The people who go to that degree are facing killers who camp, tunnel, and 3-gen their way to victory using all the meta perks. A lot of swfs are duos, who aren't interested in where the killer's going so long as the killer isn't heading in their direction.
A duo also tends to be very altruistic, seeing the solo players as beneficial since it increases their chances of survival the longer the solos are alive. Communication is a big factor. Casual duos don't have every map layout and possible tile spawn memorised. They use key location callouts like "I'm at shack" or "I'm at main". They don't say something like "I'm at 3, Killer's at 5 going 7, [Solo 1] is at 8, [Solo 2] is at 10."
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I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but your test results are in and they reveal that you have the virus known as "skill issue". The good news is that it's very treatable, but it will be a long time before your condition improves. So remember to stay hydrated, and don't push yourself.
In all seriousness though, it's not really a problem. 24m isn't exactly a huge radius. It's basically the immediate vicinity of a generator. Mostly useful in 3-gens.
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@burt0r said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3471679#Comment_3471679
Yeah, the mistake of being nice and not killing anyone before the 8th hook.
Not tunneling isn't being nice. Unhooked survivors get exactly one chance to get away after being unhooked. If they intentionally bodyblock, or try to blind you, or whatever then they go back on the hook.
If you stumble across the recently unhooked survivor within the first 15 seconds of them being unhooked, slug them instead of hooking them. Has the same pressure effect, only now they don't feel like they're being tunneled out of the game.
TL;DR: Don't play nice, but don't play like you're desperate for a 1k either.
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I'm a decent looper, and I tend to avoid using exhaustion perks. I find them too restrictive. MFT is an ideal perk choice for me since I often find myself in situations where I would've made a pallet with even an extra 1% boost. I'm not super skilled at the game either. I play casually with a friend late at night for fun.
I always take unnecessary risks. Someone's being tunneled? I'll try to take aggro. Someone's being camped? I'll attempt a save, unless the killer is Huntress, Trickster or someone with an insta-down. Is the perk strong? Absolutely. Is it overpowered, though? Definitely not.
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@GlamourousLeviathan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3468002#Comment_3468002
You know where the killer is at all times, you know where the totems are as long as one teammate found it, you know where your teammates are (which counters blindness so it makes Knock Out, Third Seal and other similar perks useless), you can develop team strategies easily, you can keep yourself updated on team resources, you can know the exact places some killers place traps... The advantages of SWF are endless and there is simply no way of getting around it unless removing the feature (something they won't ever do) or make everyone a SWF and rework the whole game.
Unless you're a super-sweaty high MMR 4-man SWF with perfect callouts and coordination, you don't actually know all of this and to paint all SWFs with the same brush does nothing to address the actual problem.
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@Sometimes_Sage said:
Hook grabs as a mechanic led to bad gameplay, but removing them without an replacement means that Killers now can't prevent an unhook at all.
STBFL Exists and is a top-tier perk. There's also not waiting until they're at the hook to hit them. All it's done is removed the silly little minigame of forcing the killer to hit you to deny a grab. Killers like Bubba are still free to insta-down survivors.
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Friendly reminder that Save The Best For Last exists and is still a top-tier perk.
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@EvilSerje said:
Super great that they gave her at least something in chase for now, but I'm really concerned about teleports and tapes.
- So with tape I can get 2 condemn MAX, but at the same time I can be protected from teleport condemnation. And if condemnation getting close - just grab and drop the tape in the nearest TV on the way from one gen to another.
- All survivors grabs the tape. Still atrocious 70 seconds cooldown + 15 seconds cooldown + most TV's are off (tapeless=useless), basically no teleport power.
I see that my common action of sweeping the map (when I teleported few times in a row) and finding survivors now completely removed. That's very scary! Valuable information (appearance/flashing of glowing ring on portrait) is no more available 😖
We will see. At least it's a start, and devs finally hear community (I literally never saw that large amount of pleas to buff Sadie). Maybe they tweak her a little more.
Again, personally, I wouldn't bother so much, I'd just simply added:
- iri tape baskit
- drawing basekit (with healing progress condemnation, no healing finishishing, to avoid slugging)
- news paper basekit
- + what they did already with ghost form (I think going through windows would be appropriate too)
We'll see, we'll see.
She's getting an add-on pass, but we don't have any details on that.
Expect Sadako to spend most of her match powerless.
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@GolbezGarlandGabrant said:
Where are people seeing this. I'm not seeing it in the Patch Notes or News sections.
Developer update. I don't have the link
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- The time a TV is disabled after a Survivor removes the Cursed Tape has been increased to 90 seconds (was 60 seconds).
This seems a little too weighted in favor of survivors when coupled with this change
- Cursed Tapes can now be placed in any TV other than the one they were retrieved from.
I would look at reducing the duration a TV is disabled when a survivor removes a tape to about 45 seconds instead, and seeing how things go from there.
I understand that the below change is meant to incentivise Survivors to use the Tapes to prevent Condemned build-up, but that's not very likely to happen.
- Holding a Cursed Tape no longer passively builds Condemned.
This change is completely invalidated
- Projecting to a TV now applies ¾ of a stack of Condemned to all Survivors not carrying a Cursed Tape
By these changes
- Cursed Tapes can now be placed in any TV other than the one they were retrieved from.
- The time a TV is disabled after a Survivor removes the Cursed Tape has been increased to 90 seconds (was 60 seconds).
It's honestly a mess. I understand the point of these changes, but I can't agree with them as they're based on the assumption that survivors aren't just going to remove Sadako's ability to teleport.
While holding a tape will safeguard a survivor from Condemned spread from Teleporting, it won't protect them from this.
- When a Survivor carrying a Cursed Tape is hooked, all other Survivors gain one stack of Condemned and the Tape is destroyed.
This makes carrying a tape risky if Sadako catches you. What's the simplest way to eliminate both that risk, while simultaneously eliminating condemned build-up from Sadako teleporting? Take her power away. 90 seconds means that with survivors going two to one gen each, that's two gens gone by time the tv is available again.
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@VirtuaTyKing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3471226#Comment_3471226
I perhaps wouldn't have an issue with a non stacking MFT. If it weren't not for the current gen rushing meta stacked with poor gen defence. The healing nerf did barely anything to an organised team unless using sloppy.
Now teams are fine playing injured with MFT, resilience and even deja vu for nutty gen speeds.
Fine you say then down them not just injure. Well you can't really mind game good survivors with some killers on shack or strong linked tiles if they get there. Even more unlikely with these perks.
So you leave chase and they blast the gens to hell.
The game isn't balanced around coordinated teams. It's balanced around average skill players. The current gen rush meta is a result of the previous gen regression meta.
As for the healing nerf, it was a double edged sword. See, self-care got nerfed back in patch 6.1.0 which was fine because Survivors had CoH to replace it. But then CoH got gutted, and medkits were nerfed.
This leaves Survivors with the following options: Run Medkit and Built to Last, or run Self-Care and Botany. Option A is bad against Dredge, Trickster and Huntress because Locker + Iron Maiden. The second option limits Survivors builds. Slap on Off The Record as a mandatory anti-tunneling perk, and now you get to pick one perk of your own.
Healing is natural slowdown. Incentivise it, rather than discouraging it. Yes, CoH was busted, but there's no reason the healing speed from it couldn't be reduced to 35%.
You want survivors to not rush gens, then survivors need incentives to not rush gens. Healing is one such incentive. That being said, toolboxes are a big contributing factor right now and the repair toolboxes should be looked at. Especially Commodius.
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@UnavailableName said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3471377#Comment_3471377
What are you talking about ? You won't be able to condemned any survivor. Did you understand the changes ?
I tell you again :
1- go to a TV, take the tape
2- go to the nearest TV, use the tape
3- do the gen next to it
4- repeat
If all 4 survivors do this, you won't be able to teleport to a TV 80% of the trial...
While I see your point, I do feel the need to clarify some things for you.
- Cursed Tapes can now be placed in any TV other than the one they were retrieved from.
- Projecting to a TV now applies ¾ of a stack of Condemned to all Survivors not carrying a Cursed Tape
Take away the first one, keep the second one, suddenly it's too easy to spread condemned. Don't forget that they're also changing the dynamic of the Cursed Tape itself. Some compromise is necessary.
- Getting hit with a Basic Attack while carrying a Cursed Tape will apply one stack of Condemned.
- When a Survivor carrying a Cursed Tape is hooked, all other Survivors gain one stack of Condemned and the Tape is destroyed.
- Holding a Cursed Tape no longer passively builds Condemned.
- Cursed Tapes can now be placed in any TV other than the one they were retrieved from.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3471392#Comment_3471392
It’s going to be so easy to remove the killer’s power, for such a long time, that I’m going to start calling them EMPs.
Right? I'm a survivor main, and even I can see that it's a little too easy for survivors to deny a killer their power for the entire duration of a match. I can see where they got the idea from, but they're being naïve if they think survivors aren't going to take advantage of that 90 second duration to deny Sadako her main ability.
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- The time a TV is disabled after a Survivor removes the Cursed Tape has been increased to 90 seconds (was 60 seconds).
This seems a little too weighted in favor of survivors when coupled with this change
- Cursed Tapes can now be placed in any TV other than the one they were retrieved from.
I would look at reducing the duration a TV is disabled when a survivor removes a tape to about 45 seconds instead, and seeing how things go from there.
I understand that the below change is meant to incentivise Survivors to use the Tapes to prevent Condemned build-up, but that's not very likely to happen.
- Holding a Cursed Tape no longer passively builds Condemned.
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@UnavailableName said:
This sentence resume why Sadako will now be totally useless against coordinated players :)
Cursed Tapes can now be placed in any TV other than the one they were retrieved from.
BHVR has just done the mistake with The Singularity, giving survivors a way too strong counter against its power : EMPs are everywhere and there are so many of them that they can pretty much deny your power the whole trial.
And BHVR does the exact same mistake with Sadako now : take a tape, go to a TV to disable it, do the gen next to this TV - all 4 survivors doing it = No power Sadako for the whole trial or at least 3/4 of the trial (when there are 2 gens left, disabling TV won't be usefull as there won't be enough time left to condemned any survivor).
I know the game so much that just by reading the notes i can say that it is an insane nerf to one of the weakest killer in the game.
GJ BHVR.
Considering that you can mori a fully condemned survivor regardless of hook states, I strongly disagree.
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@VirtuaTyKing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3470230#Comment_3470230
How much time do you think the killer has free! lol
It's more about the fairness of the argument presented. One cannot argue that haste is bad when survivors get it so easily while simultaneously ignoring how easily killers build Bloodlust.
Yes, maps are a problem — I think, by this point at least, everyone has acknowledged this — but one cannot argue that haste is a problem if survivors have it due to map size while conveniently ignoring how Bloodlust, a base mechanic, also provides haste.
I'm more than happy to have a constructive discussion about Made For This, and how it could be better balanced, but I'm not going to do that if an argument as to why it should be nerfed amounts to "It's not fair" or "Perk's OP, Plz Nerf".
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@Hannacia said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3470202#Comment_3470202
You really didn't read my message clearly did you. Why is bloodlust in the game? Think about it? Because maps are unbalanced some are size of texas and some killers are slow and need bloodlust not to chase survivors through 5 gens getting 0 hooks.
If killer chases you until they have max bloodlust you've already ran him or her long enough to get few gens done, and honest at that point the killer has screwed up.
Sure when maps are balanced and there are no infinites ( there is multiple of those ) sure then lets check the bloodlust situation. Survivors do not need easy 3% haste or even worse 10% in the endgame. ( with hope )
No, I read your comment quite clearly. Bloodlust is haste, but instead of it being a perk it's baked into killers as a base-game mechanic and rewards you not for outplaying a survivor but for simply being faster than them.
Yet here people are complaining that MFT is absolutely busted when bloodlust exists and provides killers with haste. If MFT is busted, then so too is Bloodlust.
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3470219#Comment_3470219
It does the opposite. You want to run exhaustion add-ons and perks to counter it. It's the only way you can do something about it.
They meant that it's the only perk making people not run Sprint Burst, Dead Hard, Lithe, etc.
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@Hannacia said:
People also need to understand that not all killers have exhaust addons. Fearmonger is easy to get rid off and blood echo has horrible cooldown.
Giving eather side haste perks is a slippery slope and we are now going downhill fast. As long as maps are unbalanced and huge i don't think survivors should get haste perks or at least not perks that are as easily given as made for this is with no cooldown or anything. I'm not sure who had this great idea to even make it stack with other haste perks.
This is simply a perk that makes good or avarage survivors even better. On a survivor that is already afraid to do much while injured and doesn't know the maps and loops yeah this perk might not do much.
Then we should do away with bloodlust, no? Given that it gives killers up to 15% extra movement speed.
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Sure, a few more certainly couldn't hurt (not that it's hurting now, just to be clear).
Y'all can have Adam, Jake, Dwight, Meg, Jeff, Jane, Zarina and Felix.
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@UnluckyDucky said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3470019#Comment_3470019
To my recollection they only had gen regression perks. I was treating the game as if they had aura reading since so many killers are running things like Lethal and Nowehre to Hide. It was the Ormond map and while the killer was running in a nearby jungle-gym chasing my friend, I finished the gen and hopped into a locker around 10-15 feet away(walked, no Shift). The killer was behind a wall when they downed my friend, and I had already hopped into a locker. I stayed inside the entire time while my friend got hooked--and then the killer just beelined to me after the hook.
I could understand if there was a notification I did by sprinting, or scratch marks, etc--but none of those applied in this case. My friends in lobby with me also weren't sure how it could have happened unless this guy has whispers--end game shows, he didn't. So THEN they were like "he just heard you breathing" which is apparently a thing? but i got pretty decent headphones and I never hear survivors breathing loud enough to compete with a fully completed gen roaring 10 feet away. the completed gens are usually so loud i can hide within their range while injured to hide from a killer.
Hmm, well it's possible the killer heard the sound of the locker doors and when they were nearby they could hear your breathing. That said, it could also just have been a lucky guess that was deduced from the gen having been completed and no sign of anyone leaving the immediate vicinity. No scratch marks means they're likely hiding nearby, and the most likely hiding place is a locker.
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@BlueRose said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3470127#Comment_3470127
I have seen and heard different so it depends on who you listen to. Scott who himself said he hasn't felt MfT that much, since he been playing mostly the new killer with his exhaustion addon, said the perk may be a little too strong. Otz also said they he thinks the perk is kinda silly and could use some changes. You're right you can counter it but not all killers have an exhaustion addon (like the plague) and some of us don't want to feel like we need to bring one perk just in case MfTs is in the lobby. I'm currently trying to figure out what perks to replace in my builds with Fear or Bloodecho just bc of this single perk and Im not happy about it.
Btw survivors are not the only ones who have useless niche perks. Have you seen a lot of killer perks? A lot of them are very niche also and borderline useless. Look at Sing, SM, or Knight Perks for the most recent examples of killer niche perks. I haven't seen a perk I really wanted to run since Pain Res or Floods of Rage.
Content Creators are, perhaps, not the best people to listen to. Players like Otz, Tru3, Scott Jund, and other popular streamers all play at a level that most will never reach. The vast majority who play this game are not concerned with whether or not something is fair at a tournament level. They're concerned with how fair it feels for the average player.
The average player is not a god looper who's going to loop you for 5 gens. They make mistakes. More often than not, they'll mindgame themselves if you let them. When looking at MFT, you want to look at how it interacts with similar perks. Dark Theory is the closest equivalent. It does the same thing, yet nobody runs it. Why? Too situational/map dependent.
You shouldn't consider swapping out a perk to counter MFT unless you're encountering it in over 60% of your matches. If you play 10 matches per day, and 6 of those have MFT, I would consider making room for perks like Genetic Limits, Blood Echo, or Fearmonger.
And yes, killer has a lot of uselessly niche perks as well, but most of these are also outdated perks that worked best when people were still new to DBD and working out what was good and what wasn't good whereas survivor continues to get uselessly niche perks.
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@BlueRose said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3470098#Comment_3470098
That's what I have been trying to say also but a lot of these ppl arent listening really or maybe Im not framing my words right. I personally wouldn't care less about MfT in its current form if the maps were more balanced and the low-tier killers were stronger but that's not the dbd we have or will ever have tbh. The attempts at rebalancing maps haven't really done much since they still feel bad to play on as killer. Crows is better than before yeah but still a pain to play on imo.
As for buffing weak killers, the devs haven't shown any signs of doing that. In fact, regarding the two of the weakest and out-of-date killers(Myers and Trapper) the dev team has said that they are happy where those two are and have no plans in changing them in the near future if ever. Even when they do want to change an older killer it takes them years to do so, as you said look at Twins for that example. The more realize request to make is for MfT to be changed since they will most likely happen than a bunch of maps being rebalanced or low-tier killers being buffed/changed. So ppl so see reason tho and just want their new toy to abuse and play with under the guidance of "it's fun". Well, it's not fun for me who enjoys playing m1 killers and has to see this perk 3 or more times in a single match.
MFT is fine, though. I don't see what all the fuss is about. A good killer will still 4k against this perk, even if all 4 survivors are running it. It's not an exhaustion perk, and yet it is affected by perks and add-ons that cause exhaustion. It is affected by add-ons and powers that afflict survivors with hindered. There are even perks like PWYF that increase the killer's movement speed.
I have not seen one good example of MFT being overpowered or busted. I've seen plenty of examples of bad killers being outplayed by this perk in situations where they would've been outplayed anyway. Sprint Burst is superior to MFT in every way, so I don't see why anyone would run MFT over SB. Most survivor perks are either extremely niche to the point of uselessness, or are actually useless. MFT is an example of a good survivor perk, because it's strong but not absolutely busted like CoH, DH 1.0 and DS 1.0 were.
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You don't have to 99 the gate, but I've been killed more often by the gate being opened than it being 99'd. If someone's in chase when the final gen pops, it's best to 99 both gates. If nobody's in chase, the gate can just be opened. If the extra second it takes to open the gate causes someone to get downed at the switch, it's extremely likely they would've been downed within the gates anyway.
Whether or not you 99 the gate depends on what you think is the correct play. I'll always risk it to go back for someone, and that's best done without a timer. If someone's on hook before the gates have been opened and I can see someone going for the rescue, I'll stand by at the gate to open it when the unhook happens.
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It's hard to say what, exactly, it could've been when you've given us so little to work with. Aura-reading perks don't apply to people inside lockers, but perks like Stridor and Whispers give the killer an indication of your location. Spies from the Shadows gives a loud noise notification when a crow is disturbed.
Really need to know what perks the killer was running in order to make an accurate guess. Odds are he made a lucky guess.
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Let survivors who are slugged crawl to each other and trade some of their recovery meter to pick someone up.
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@BlueRose said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3469547#Comment_3469547
So tho I do agree MfT doesn't give a individual a undeserved win but here the thing...MfT makes chases last longer (just like DH did) and longer chases mean more gens being done in the background and that means the survivors who not being chased has a higher chance of escaping. It may not give the one person who being chased a undeserved win (probably why data is telling the devs it's fine) but it does help the other survivors win easier.
Here my thing about MfT and DH before it's latest nerf. One or two of them in a lobby was never a big deal to me. I was more than happy with a loddy when only one or two survivors was running DH and same goes for MfT. The problems start when you have more then half of the survivors running it. That means 3 or every chase you have will be longer and that also means gens can be done faster. The one thing ppl always seem to forget when it comes to survivor perks is that it's hardly ever one or two DHs (per previous nerf) or MfT. I seen a lot of lobbies with 3 or 4 MfTs and I can say those are the matches I had the least amount of fun on killer in a while. The matches with one or two wasn't that bad but those 3 to 4 man MfT matches was nightmare and it happened multiple times for a night. Those matches also had hope and when I saw that I just gave up in the end game and let the ppl escape bc I didn't even want to bother chasing 3 or 4 hope+MfT survivors.
The way MFT and DH make chases last longer are different. DH allowed you to take an extra hit while injured, which would allow you to get to another tile, and you could also use it for distance which created a lose-lose scenario. MFT increases your movement speed while injured by 3%, which is the difference between making a pallet and being downed.
DH would extend chases against even the strongest killers. MFT only gets value at small loops. If it's taking you more than 35 seconds to down an injured survivor, that's a chase that has already gone on too long. Drop it, and patrol gens.
Multiple instances of MFT only extends chases if the survivors are actually good. I seen a solo queue player run MFT and he went down within about 15 seconds of being chased. This is another reason why it isn't like old DH. You didn't need to already be good at chase to get value out of it, you just had to know the timing.
Even in the case that all survivors are good, eventually they'll expend their resources. I played Sadako with no add-ons and a build I cobbled together. Map was swamp, one of my worst maps. I had a poor start. Lost 3 gens before I got my first kill. But because I dropped chases to defend generators that I could hear were close to completion, I ended up getting a 4k because the survivors ended up in a 3-gen.
Survivors make mistakes the more pressure you're applying to them. They get impatient. Their ability to make decisions becomes impacted.
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@Hannacia said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3468870#Comment_3468870
I do this MFT is carrying people to wins they don't deserve. Been using MFT + hope lately and ive gotten easy escapes which i probably didnt always deserve. Personally i'd just be happy if they take the haste stacking off. Thats my biggest issue.
Getting to endgame doesnt mean you should get easy escape as a survivor.
That's due to the haste stacking. Take away Hope, and then see how many easy undeserved escapes you get. Majority of complaints about MFT boil down to it being paired with Hope.
MFT is just the non-boon equivalent to Dark Theory. Dark Theory never really worked well as a boon since you had to be chased within the radius of the boon.
@emetSdidnothingwrong said:
Yes it will be nerfed. The only people who think that a perk like this is fine are the same people who think old DH was fine. "Just wait it out." Remember that? It's super strong and breaks the game at a fundamental level, on top of the fact a perk like this should never exist it also is just free, you do nothing at all to earn this extremely powerful speed buff.
This is old MOM imo, they are gonna nerf the ######### out of this perk and it absolutely deserves it but my hunch is they made it op on purpose to increase sales for the dlc since every dlc since Wesker has been a massive stinker.
This is nothing like DH. Old DH was problematic for a variety of reasons. MFT is quite literally just Dark Theory, but not attached to a boon. The risk to this perk is that you have to remain injured to get value out of it. It doesn't carry survivors to undeserved wins.
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@pizzavessel15 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3468748#Comment_3468748
no, made for this has almost 0 downside. basically permanent 3% while injured and can be used with perks like dh. this during middle game is hard enough but when combined with hope it really becomes a problem. this plus hope is a permanent 110 speed for survivors.
Hope doesn't become active until the gates are powered. Survivors who pair Hope with MFT are banking on making it to endgame. Haste stacking really shouldn't be a thing. As for MFT, the downside is that you have to remain injured and thus only have one health state.
Its secondary effect is not great either. Would pair nicely with For The People, but it requires coordinating to get value out of Endurance. I'm fairly good at looping killers, and can easily take a bad killer on a 5-gen chase.
You're complaining about survivors moving at 103% movement speed instead of 100% movement speed. MFT is the non-boon equivalent to Dark Theory, which was regarded as a perk that was far too situational since you'd have to be chased at a loop with the boon already set up.
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Survivor prestige level is irrelevant. It's simply the amount of bloodpoints they've invested into that particular survivor. They don't suddenly become worse at the game because they've decided to play their Prestige 6 Nea instead of their P100 Meg.
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Made For This is strong at small loops, but otherwise absolutely terrible. 110% Killers are typically anti-loop, with powers that revolve around zoning. I've yet to see a good example of MFT being busted. I've seen a lot of examples of killers being bad and admitting that it took them getting BL3 to down the survivor. For reference, BL3 takes a 115 killer to 130.
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No. Comms don't make up for a skill deficit. I've got somewhere close to 1400 hours in Dead by Daylight. If I play with my lesser-skilled friends and mic up with them, I end up being the one who runs the killer only for no gens to pop because they're scared of the terror radius. Instead of doing a gen, they hide. They know I'm in chase because I've communicated this to them. They know the killer isn't likely to break chase, but they aren't confident.
This is where more experienced survivors show the difference in their skill. A more experienced survivor knows the killer is unlikely to drop a chase in favor of defending a generator unless it's close to completion.
I typically play as part of a duo, and my friend and I are pretty close in terms of skill. We've played together before without comms and managed perfectly fine, because we know how each other plays. We constantly find each other at random times without even communicating our location because we think alike.
Arguably the biggest strength of SWFs is not the comms, it's knowing how reliable your teammate is. It's knowing that they can hold a chase for at least 40 seconds. It's knowing that they aren't going to attempt to kobe because nobody's come to rescue them in the 3 seconds they've spent on hook.
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@EmmaFrostyEyes said:
I personally think its pretty cringe and boring. Just involves alot of predropping, camping, tunneling, gen rushing…basically all the borimg stuff thats people dislike. Choy says the game is competitive and that honestly really sucks. I wish the devs would make this game more of a horror game instead of what we have today.
No. Absolutely not. Dead by Daylight comp scenes tend to revolve around both sides playing as efficiently as possible with very little room for error. This means leaving someone on hook for as long as possible, and slamming out gens as quickly as possible. For Killer, this means getting someone out of the match as quickly as possible.
Dead by Daylight is competitive in nature, but it is not a competitive game like Overwatch. It's more akin to how Monopoly and Mario Party are competitive, yet casual. You'll see high MMR killers moaning about how XYZ Perk is absolutely busted because high MMR survivors play near perfectly. That, in turn, means killers have to play in a way that minimizes the potential for mistakes.
I just don't see how playing that way can be considered fun.
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Well, when Legion's trailer was revealed it was assumed that their power would be the ability to impersonate other survivors.
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As things stand, Made For This is not really a problematic perk. It's 3% extra movement speed while injured. It's certainly a strong perk, but far from overpowered. MFT by itself only really affects a very small handful of killers.
There are perks that counter it and add-ons that inflict Hindered or Exhausted. Both of these counter the perk. Outside of counters, it's basically useless against any halfway decent killer, and extremely strong against noob killers.
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@Halloulle said:
tbh, I do think it's being closely monitored. There are certain combinations with the perk that get broken in some situations (e.g. during endgame with Hope against a 110 killer / 115 killer that doesn't have mobility aides).
Maybe they'll change something about the endurance in the long run - maybe they change something about haste stacking. Maybe they want to collect more data on more combinations and interactions with more killers. --- And maybe it's better to help the killers who really struggle than nerfing the perk.
Very simple change to get around the problem of Made For This and Hope: Made For This deactivates when the exit gates are powered.
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@Xernoton said:
BHVR seem to have some trouble finding the middle ground between perks that are extremely broken and completely useless.
The healing nerfs were necessary. You can't balance the game when the killer has to put in 30 seconds or more to hit you and you can heal yourself in 12 seconds on command every time.
Solidarity could give a little extra speed to altruistic healing (20% ish) and it would be pretty decent. Pharmacy is still decent. Finding a medkit to heal yourself isn't bad. It's no longer extremely good but still decent. Reactive healing can work very well in combination with Bond. Sloppy is pretty much a hard counter to any healing perk that doesn't have you healing in a secluded area away from the killer but I don't think it's that bad.
I disagree. I think some of the healing nerfs were necessary, but the self-care nerf? Like come on, it already took ages to heal and now it takes forever especially with sloppy butcher.
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I think Boons were a little too situational, aside from CoH. They're always going to be difficult to balance since they're either too strong (CoH), too situational (Exponential), or too weak (Dark Theory). Shadowstep is probably the only balanced boon.
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@Huge_Bush said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3428284#Comment_3428284
First, Claudette’s hiding in a bush is a natural phenomenon just as fish swimming in water. Don’t hate.
Secondly, SWF can be nerfed without harming Solo Queue. The Devs could limit perks they can use when queuing up with 3 or more players. Some would say it punishes players for wanting to play with their friends and I’d argue balancing the game to make it fair for the killer player is not punishment.
It's punishing people for playing seriously with their friends. Not disagreeing with your overall suggestion, just calling it like it is. I like Dead by Daylight as much as the next guy, but I play in a duo and we mainly play for fun. Like, yes, we want to win but not if the cost is being a sweat and ruining not just our fun but the killer's fun aswell.
Winning is nice, but it's not the reason I play dbd.
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@Akumakaji said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3428114#Comment_3428114
Not necessarily. For example they could limit perks to only one instance in any SWF, or at least impose some sort of efficiency debuff to certain combination. You could face 4 SB in a full soloQ lobby, but a 4man SWF could only field a single one.
Also, show who was in a SWF with whom in the endgame screen, so that killers can assess that, yes, their most brutal and infinite losses were against SWFs, but also a lot of their sound wins, because many duo SWFs will be overly altruistic and risk a lot in order so save their mates, and not every SWF is actually good at the game.
Limiting perks to one instance per SWF will hurt the competent teams the most, the casual happy fun SWFs won't feel a lot
Your idea is good, but I think it'd be more fair to limit the stronger perks (Like exhaustion perks) to one instance per team if they're a swf, rather than broadly applying it to all perks. It allows room for overlap with weaker perks, but puts a limit on the strong perks that act as chase extenders.
Your idea could also be applied to items, so that swfs could only bring 1 of each item, rather than a four-man bringing 4 commodius toolboxes with hyperfocus. Which, imo, would be a significant nerf to swfs without actually impacting the casuals who just play for fun.
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@Rulebreaker said:
We know that this might distract from the topic, but those saying nerf Windows, what about Zanshin Tactics? Does it not effectively do the same thing as windows?
They effectively do the same thing, but Zanshin is far less valuable to killers than Windows is to survivors.