IronWolf115
IronWolf115
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- IronWolf115
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@Delfador said:
@Amanda55 said:
@IronWolf115 said:
So if any devs actually read this, first of all hey.Now down to buisiness, I know that the devs are currently looking at Trapper, Hag, Freddy and Wraith for buffs. This is great and my question is this: After they are all buffed, what killers are you considering focusing on next?
Now I know you have said that you are focusing right now on the aformentioned four killers, but you must at least have an idea on who you would like to look at next.
I personally, and i'm sure much of the killer community, would recommend you taking a deep look into Leatherface. This is because LF is, in a word, awful. His ability sucks and is super clunky, his add-ons are mostly useless and just copy Hillbilly and he has kind of become a meme in that he is just the ultimate camping killer.
LF is another topic for himself though, I am just really curious what the plan is for more killer buffs if you would be inclined to tell us.
Thank you!
LF doesn't need anything. The one who needs buffs is Freddy.
Tbh, with freddy, you can at least make a couple of plays. There is nothing you can do with leatherface right now except for camping. There is no such thing as good LF because his ability doesn't need any kind of skill or usage. He is too simple to use so they can't even make him stronger. They need to rework his ability so that he will be more difficult to use and when used properly, he should be deadly not 'memely'
Actually, this is the problem with this game's killers. They are so [BAD WORD] simple to use. There is a difference between a good nurse and a bad nurse. There is no difference between a good LF and a bad LF. Everything that you can say about LF is general and comes to one's knowledge about the game. Zubat can play leatherface better than me not because he is actually good at LF but he knows the game and plays the game accordingly.
Edit; Killers must be able to show their skill when they are playing their killers. Nurse, huntress or hillbilly players can show their skill but since killers like LF are so simple, nobody can show their skill. If leatherface comes across with good survivors he is doomed to lose the match.
Yeah this is a really good post. When you look at the killer that resembles LF most, Hillbilly, he has different styles of play because he has great map pressure, good mind games and still has his insta-down attack. Plus he has far more useful add-ons than LF. Look at LF and what do you get? No map pressure, awful add-ons, the acceleration mechanic of his is terrible, he has no mind games because of how clunky and unreliable his ability is and his chainsaw always feels like a gamble of " Will I hit this wall if I use the chainsaw here".
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@MegaWaffle said:
@IronWolf115 said:
Real quick here, does anybody feel that the killers natural FOV should be increased, rather than forcing you to use shadowborn?They announced increasing the natural FOV but said they need to fix Shadowborn first because during their tests it was causing you to see the insides of your shoulders on the edges of your screen.
Ah wonderful thank you!
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Viable.
Hopefully
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@AshleyWB said:
I have stockpiled chili add ons and need to know when to unleash Leather Daddy upon the world.Even if they got fixed they would still be useless, they need to be MAJORLY buffed
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@Nickenzie said:
IronWolf115 said:Real quick here, does anybody feel that the killers natural FOV should be increased, rather than forcing you to use shadowborn?
I feel like that's fair as someone who plays more survivor than killer. However what would they do with Shadowborn? It'll be funny if you can see 360 degrees around you lol!
Well the idea I have more is that the natural increase would not be to the extent of shadowborn, so when you put shadowborn on, it actually gives a small increase in the FOV that you get from it now. I mainly just want a small increase to the overall FOV because I feel it is WAY too close to the screen right now
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@jaerthebear said:
Piledrive: The exitement of hooking your victims fills you with unnantural strength. For as long as you are carrying a survivor, all survivors suffer from the exposed status effect, and you hook your victims 10/20/30% fasterThis could help end the big ol body blocking issue
Discuss?
I actually quite like this.
I admit at first glance I thought that it was a perk that would LITERALLY let killers piledrive survivors.
That would be cool
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@Someissues said:
@IronWolf115 said:
Well the ideal scenario is to buff him and give him things that he is better at than Billy and vice versa
Though I agree with you, the devs schedule on buffing Killers are kinda a joke, it took them a week or 2 to nerf Freddy after release, it won't be hard for them to revert some freddy changes like now, rather they said on response to Jen that Freddy will get buff eventually
meaning he have to wait 3 months, so Leatherface will have to wait 6 months, while they can easily do small changes that can be placeholder before actual rework
Oh yeah, I completely agree. I believe I also heard recently that mid chapter patches will mainly focus on the chapter that was just released so I have very little faith that LF will be buffed anytime soon
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Nurse is unplayable right now on console, and I have been having some real fps drops when playing as Clown, anyone else?
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I understand the nerf, but I think she needs a base buff to her hatchets because Huntress has a LOT of downsides to her upsides.
Pros
Ranged attack that can damage survivors
Infinite supply of said attackCons
Slower movement speed than most killers, consequentially making her lunge attack range shorter
Effectively biggest terror radius in game ( aside from doctor in treatment mode )
Bad around loops because of her movement speed
Almost no map pressure
Strange hitboxes on hatchets
If you run out of hatchets during a chase, you pretty much have to break away from the chase to refillI feel she needs something to make her better at base level, though I admit I don't know what that might be
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@Someissues said:
@Master said:
Leathedface has never been viable
Yep this, no map control, trash add-ons besides chargetime, and a much worst version than Billy
just stop playing him and jump on Billy
Well the ideal scenario is to buff him and give him things that he is better at than Billy and vice versa
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@VexTheHex said:
I still consider Leatherface one of the worst designed Killers in the game and hate his existence. So while I think it'd be nice for his fans, I also don't want to come across more Leatherfaces (while already the most camp happy Killer) face camping Kates, Neas, Fengs, and Davids cause they want the cosmetic.Well the thing is though, LF is actually one of the weakest killers in the game so it doesn't bother me
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@raquelambersantiago said:
lol cant be one sided all. That throws balance off. I know that some survivors are better at things than others and better against certain killers than others but that's also true for some killers against some survivors. I see where some killers are coming from but that also depends on the group make up. I have had survivors with solid purple flashlights and its annoying as can be but I think if done appropriately it can work on all sides. Cant just give killer a fifth perk and not the survivors and vice versa. Well they can but not my recommendation lolThe thing is though, even if survivors didnt get a 5th perk slot, they would still VASTLY outnumber the killer
Survivor ( in total ): 16 perks
Killer ( with 5 perks ): 5 PerksIt is a far more needed change for killer than survivor
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@Vortexas said:
@IronWolf115 said:
@Vortexas said:
While they would be cool, they already said no more new cosmetics for him.I'd settle for having p3 versions of all his survivor faces.
That would also be cool
Right!
Though if they added more faces to him, I'd want the bill one..just for the beard.
For me Nea and David. Just because Nea is already pretty scary so actually having her face on a killer would be nice.
And David......just cuz David -
@Vortexas said:
While they would be cool, they already said no more new cosmetics for him.I'd settle for having p3 versions of all his survivor faces.
That would also be cool
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@SovererignKing said:
Just thinking, would M&A be good on Clown? You could get closer to them, and maybe be able to hit them with a surprise Afterpice Tonic. That would really hit the Sprint Burst meta hard if you could hit them with the Tonic before they take off.I actually recomend Make your choice. He can slow down the affected person to hit them
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@Doom_Punk said:
@IronWolf115 said:
@Doom_Punk said:
I love it when people catch on to how useless the Chili addons are. I've run tests and they do NOTHING at all.Beast's Marks and Knife Scratches are what make you move faster while swinging. Acceleration does nothing.
Good posts. I really want some Bubba buffs, cause he is so damn bad.
Thank you for the feedbak!
I completely agree with you, the problem with the Beast's marks and knife scratches though is that they make you chainsaw take longer to charge so there is still a downside that hurts LF which sucks.I like the direction they're going with Trapper and Hag addons not having downsides, and I don't see why any Killer addons should have downsides unless they truly are powerful as hell. I don't think moving a bit faster would break him cause you'd still kill an addon slot (or two) to move faster, not to charge faster.
Some YouTubers I believe still think Chili does something which gave me the idea to test it, and there was no difference in how much distance I traveled nor how fast I walked holding it.
It's such a shame with how fun he is to play that he's incredibly weak and usually has to camp to get something done.
Again, I cannot agree more with you. Leatherface has NO add-ons that are the be all end all of power, thus I don't think his add-ons should have the downsides that they do.
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@Doom_Punk said:
I love it when people catch on to how useless the Chili addons are. I've run tests and they do NOTHING at all.Beast's Marks and Knife Scratches are what make you move faster while swinging. Acceleration does nothing.
Good posts. I really want some Bubba buffs, cause he is so damn bad.
Thank you for the feedbak!
I completely agree with you, the problem with the Beast's marks and knife scratches though is that they make you chainsaw take longer to charge so there is still a downside that hurts LF which sucks. -
I actually don't mind this, because I do find 5 blink Nurse kind of crazy.
As long as it wouldn't affect her normal kit and capabilities, i'm on board -
5 for killer, yes.
5 for survivor? Hell no
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You know I may be one of the few people here but I don't even think Huntress is that good without add-ons, but thats for a different topic.
I had a game just like this recently, it was an AWFUL experience so yeah, devs DESPERATELY need to look at balance in this game
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Yeah, I mean I can get round the reload time with the add-ons I use for him so it doesn't bother me that much, I just wondered what everyone thought
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@only1biggs said:
@IronWolf115 said:
@only1biggs said:
@Outland said:
@only1biggs said:
@Outland said:
@only1biggs said:
You could have destroyed them if you played smarter. Did you see the flashlights in the lobby? Then you should have picked up facing walls or baited the pick up or slugged. You made the same mistake three times.If one had DS assume they all do and play accordingly. Down them near hooks and if you carry the non obsession DS users, count to 6 and hook or count, then do one dribble, then hook... depending on where the nearest hook is. The obsession can just be slugged and played around.
As a Billy you should be destroying teams like this if you play correctly and smart. I love going against these types as it's usually a guaranteed win.
That being said, Torment Creek is an awful map and one of the worst. But, you could have and should have killed them all.
Condescend much?
It's hard not to condescend to an idiot.
*edit - I'm actually not sure what parts you find condescending to be honest :')
Name calling, well that explains it, grow up junior. Maybe time to go out get a job, move out of the parents house and stop being "that guy".
Since I obviously used a word you didn't understand, here is the part where you were condescending.
"As a Billy you should be destroying teams like this if you play correctly and smart."
LOL I'm mid thirties with my own place. Nice try, boy. Who's condescending now? AND assuming a great many thing. Jesus, get a grip.
Now... did you think I was "name calling" toward you, or OP? Because I and MANY others explained to OP what he did incorrectly and what he could have done to not have a bad experience, but he refused the help, so yeah, he's an idiot. If you thought I was calling you and idiot, then you are wrong. I was calling OP an idiot and he was, as I just explained.
Again, if you see my line you quoted as condescending, I don't know what to tell you. It's true. Based on what he said, as a Billy, he should have destroyed them if he played smart and correctly.
So i'm an idiot?
This is coming from the guy who literally says bloodlust needs to be removed
Donkey.
Well, yeah. You don't know how to play around flashlights and refuse to accept there are ways to play around flashlights. So..you're an idiot.
I actually said, it needs to be removed EXCEPT Myers EW 1 and Hag and only be Tier 1 Bloodlust. Bloodlust rewards bad killers. As you need it and given the topic of this thread, you are indeed, a bad killer.
Try again.
I don't particularly care about the opinion of a sad little troll who has no concept of the reality of the balance of this game,
" Bloodlust needs to be removed"
" You're an idiot if you can't beat SWF, flashlights, 3 DS on one of the worst maps in the game"You clearly have no idea of the realities of this game, and if you do you are simply in denial that there is a problem.
Good day
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Defo rework. In my opinion ( and it is just my opinion ) his power doesn't even feel like a power it feels more like a map filter
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With great regret and self loathing.....Leatherface.
It's literally just because I love the movies
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Yeah, I like pop goes the weasel but it shouldn't be the requirement to get something done after kicking a gen so defenitely needs buffing. Gen kicking I mean, not pop goes the weasel
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@only1biggs said:
@Outland said:
@only1biggs said:
@Outland said:
@only1biggs said:
You could have destroyed them if you played smarter. Did you see the flashlights in the lobby? Then you should have picked up facing walls or baited the pick up or slugged. You made the same mistake three times.If one had DS assume they all do and play accordingly. Down them near hooks and if you carry the non obsession DS users, count to 6 and hook or count, then do one dribble, then hook... depending on where the nearest hook is. The obsession can just be slugged and played around.
As a Billy you should be destroying teams like this if you play correctly and smart. I love going against these types as it's usually a guaranteed win.
That being said, Torment Creek is an awful map and one of the worst. But, you could have and should have killed them all.
Condescend much?
It's hard not to condescend to an idiot.
*edit - I'm actually not sure what parts you find condescending to be honest :')
Name calling, well that explains it, grow up junior. Maybe time to go out get a job, move out of the parents house and stop being "that guy".
Since I obviously used a word you didn't understand, here is the part where you were condescending.
"As a Billy you should be destroying teams like this if you play correctly and smart."
LOL I'm mid thirties with my own place. Nice try, boy. Who's condescending now? AND assuming a great many thing. Jesus, get a grip.
Now... did you think I was "name calling" toward you, or OP? Because I and MANY others explained to OP what he did incorrectly and what he could have done to not have a bad experience, but he refused the help, so yeah, he's an idiot. If you thought I was calling you and idiot, then you are wrong. I was calling OP an idiot and he was, as I just explained.
Again, if you see my line you quoted as condescending, I don't know what to tell you. It's true. Based on what he said, as a Billy, he should have destroyed them if he played smart and correctly.
So i'm an idiot?
This is coming from the guy who literally says bloodlust needs to be removed
Donkey.
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OK, so I think I am just gonna abandon this discussion, I only intended for it to be a discussion about a youtuber's thoughts about a nerf and yet somehow we got into an argument about DS, SC and BBQ so of course you can all talk to each other but as for me i'm jumping ship before I hit the iceberg so, good talk guys!
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@Boss said:
Look at what you caused, Tyde!
Lol, funny thing is I didn't create this post with malicious intent towards tyde, I actually really like him I just have a disagreement. It all seems to have spiraled out of control though
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@thesuicidefox said:
@IronWolf115 said:
@thesuicidefox said:
@IronWolf115 said:
NOED and BBQ both have counters whereas DS and SC do not, if they did, then the debate here would be different.I'm not going derail your thread here but I want to make these points.
First DS and SC can be countered. DS can be countered by Enduring or Unnerving directly. Doc's power can also count it. Remember Me doesn't exactly counter the use of DS, but it does flip the formula and reward the killer greatly for tunneling the obsession, even letting them DS to get another token on the first hook. SC can be countered by mangled stuff, Coulrophobia now, Nurse's Calling, Thanatophobia. Are these perfect counters? No, but they are counters none the less.
My point here is that just because something can be countered doesn't absolve it of being a crutch. I don't think BBQ or Ruin are killer crutches, but NOED definitely is a crutch and here's why... it is purely a comeback mechanic that rewards failure. That's literally all it is there for. It's there to help the killer make up for poor performance near the end of the game. And where it really differs from other perks like BBQ is that it does not require the killer to do anything to gain the benefits from it. BBQ at the very least requires you to catch and hook someone to gain the benefits. Remember Me requires you to find and hit the obsession enough. Nurse's requires you to find and hit someone first. There are conditions which must be met on the killer's end to gain those benefits. NOED has none of that. It just... happens.... because you failed. Even if you look at all other insta-downs, there is some catch, something the killer must do to gain that insta-down. Devour, hook 3 people and ALLOW the saves. MYC, hook someone then allow a save. Myers EW3, gain enough EW. Chainsaws and insta-hatchets, actually hit someone with a more difficult to aim attack. Yadda yadda.
I'd be all for making NOED more powerful if it was changed in such a way that the killer was required to do something to gain the benefits. Maybe they have to get 1 hook on everyone before the gates power. Maybe they need to kill someone before the gates power. Maybe they need to make survivors bleed collectively for 2 minutes over the course of the game. I'm just throwing out random ideas here, my point is that NOED is totally a crutch perk simply because of the conditions under which it activates.
I certainly have my issues with NOED, but my point is that NOED can be completely negated if you want it to be. Compare that to DS which the things you mention are not hard counters, they are more soften the blow sort of things. When DS gets nerfed I actually am in favor of a NOED re-work, but ONLY after DS has been addressed.
But we do agree on everything else.
"My point is that NOED can be completely negated if you want it to be"... as long as you are in a group. If you are playing solo this really isn't an option. You can't control the rate at which other survivors do gens, and you have no way to confirm the number of totems destroyed. I run Small Game a lot lately purely to find Ruin and NOED. I will destroy every totem I can find, but I still end up in games where the gens get done before I can do it. I'll even ignore doing gens myself (doing my 1 gen near the start for my emblem) and focus on totems only to have every gen done before I get them all. A lot of times that comes down to being chased. If I can totally avoid the killer and not get into a chase I might be able to get all the totems before the endgame. But if I get chased, gens get done fast, and even if I can find all 5 totems I can't exactly do them if I'm running from the killer. And if other survivors start going down a lot, well now I'm forced to do gens to make up for them not doing gens, which means less time I can find totems. If you play in a group, yes, you can easily pop all the totems before endgame and completely avoid NOED. Solo, not so much, to a point where NOED procs and killers that might not have gotten kills suddenly got 2 people and got 2 free kills (because no one will come save them unless NOED drops).
There are only 5 totems on a map, so even solo it would be easy to just find and count each totem. If the other survivors are not doing gens while you get the totems or vice versa then that is a problem of the survivors, not the perk itself. I myself have single handedly removed NOED on a numerous amount of games by myself ( I dont play SWF ) so I have to disagree with you. I think it is fully possible to negate NOED by yourself. Again though just to be clear I still do see NOED as an issue
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@Paddy4583 said:
IronWolf115 said:@Paddy4583 said:
I agree, in the senirio your putting forward that any survivor using DS is never to be caught again the entire match, however it’s hardly a nerf to DS, I don’t know many player who would use it at the first chance unless they expected not to be saved in which case the result is the same
The nerf that I put forward is irrelevant, the point was to show the fact that after it gets nerfed, the consequence of using it would be much higher thus lowering its status as a crutch perk. The point behind this is to show that things like BBQ already have such consequences and so the validity of an argument that BBQ is a crutch perk and that killers cannot live without it is ludicrous. Killers use BBQ with the intent of being rewarded for not camping. Survivors use DS for the reward of.....dying?
I’ve already said that the consequence won’t stop it being used as a crutch because it’s not because of consequence or lack there of that makes it a crutch.
do you honestly believe that with the nerfs coming, that self care and sprit burst won’t still be used just as much?
I don’t because they aren’t crutches because of the the definition your using.
BBQ doesn’t have a consequence in the same way your defining the consequence for DS, what your referring to is circumstantial, not consequential.
Your suggesting a detriment to an advantage which negates the advantage, BBQ doesn’t have this, insta downs don’t have this. It’s not a comparison
I do believe that SC and SB will be still used and here is why:
The self care nerf they have proposed is not enough, and back to the original point of this discussion, they are nerfing ALL the exhaustion perks which negates the nerf to SB because it will still be the best exhaustion perk to use
And you are correct that BBQ is circumstantial rather than consequential, however this is where my point is coming from, the circumstance for BBQ is in a good place, and the consequence for using BBQ is also in a good place ( Ability to trick the killer through your aura if you are clever )
DS is circumstantial in the fact that you have to be downed, true, but after that what is the consequence like with BBQ? There is none. You zoom away and will probably have the killer on the run for another 3 minutes.And the detriment to insta downs is that they are predictable and easily dodged. If you try to use an insta down attack too much you are actually going to hurt yourself rather than help.
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@thesuicidefox said:
@IronWolf115 said:
NOED and BBQ both have counters whereas DS and SC do not, if they did, then the debate here would be different.I'm not going derail your thread here but I want to make these points.
First DS and SC can be countered. DS can be countered by Enduring or Unnerving directly. Doc's power can also count it. Remember Me doesn't exactly counter the use of DS, but it does flip the formula and reward the killer greatly for tunneling the obsession, even letting them DS to get another token on the first hook. SC can be countered by mangled stuff, Coulrophobia now, Nurse's Calling, Thanatophobia. Are these perfect counters? No, but they are counters none the less.
My point here is that just because something can be countered doesn't absolve it of being a crutch. I don't think BBQ or Ruin are killer crutches, but NOED definitely is a crutch and here's why... it is purely a comeback mechanic that rewards failure. That's literally all it is there for. It's there to help the killer make up for poor performance near the end of the game. And where it really differs from other perks like BBQ is that it does not require the killer to do anything to gain the benefits from it. BBQ at the very least requires you to catch and hook someone to gain the benefits. Remember Me requires you to find and hit the obsession enough. Nurse's requires you to find and hit someone first. There are conditions which must be met on the killer's end to gain those benefits. NOED has none of that. It just... happens.... because you failed. Even if you look at all other insta-downs, there is some catch, something the killer must do to gain that insta-down. Devour, hook 3 people and ALLOW the saves. MYC, hook someone then allow a save. Myers EW3, gain enough EW. Chainsaws and insta-hatchets, actually hit someone with a more difficult to aim attack. Yadda yadda.
I'd be all for making NOED more powerful if it was changed in such a way that the killer was required to do something to gain the benefits. Maybe they have to get 1 hook on everyone before the gates power. Maybe they need to kill someone before the gates power. Maybe they need to make survivors bleed collectively for 2 minutes over the course of the game. I'm just throwing out random ideas here, my point is that NOED is totally a crutch perk simply because of the conditions under which it activates.
I certainly have my issues with NOED, but my point is that NOED can be completely negated if you want it to be. Compare that to DS which the things you mention are not hard counters, they are more soften the blow sort of things. When DS gets nerfed I actually am in favor of a NOED re-work, but ONLY after DS has been addressed.
But we do agree on everything else.
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@Paddy4583 said:
I agree, in the senirio your putting forward that any survivor using DS is never to be caught again the entire match, however it’s hardly a nerf to DS, I don’t know many player who would use it at the first chance unless they expected not to be saved in which case the result is the sameThe nerf that I put forward is irrelevant, the point was to show the fact that after it gets nerfed, the consequence of using it would be much higher thus lowering its status as a crutch perk. The point behind this is to show that things like BBQ already have such consequences and so the validity of an argument that BBQ is a crutch perk and that killers cannot live without it is ludicrous. Killers use BBQ with the intent of being rewarded for not camping. Survivors use DS for the reward of.....dying?
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@Paddy4583 said:
IronWolf115 said:@Paddy4583 said:
IronWolf115 said:
@Paddy4583 said: IronWolf115 said:
@Paddy4583 said: IronWolf115 said:
@HeroLives said: IronWolf115 said:
@Paddy4583 said: RemoveSWF said:
Because vaulting over things and dropping down is SO HARD as a survivor. Bullshit. You should have lost these second/third/fourth chance crutch perks years ago. You've been coddled and you're entitled. No survivor should be able to loop a killer for three generators or more. The reason they can is due to exploit abuse (pallet looping) and OP perks. In future, how about learning to hide and juke instead of playing fearlessly because you know DbD killers are weak as piss and your God perks will save your griefer ass. Like insta downs, speed addons and BBQ and ruin all the crux you use.
I begining to think you are just a bad killer main who uses any excuse. You won’t be happy untill survivors are just AI that are easy for you to beat. You say get better at hiding but that’s only viable if the killer depart know where the gens are else your just hiding while some killer runs from gen to gen. tyme is a total ass hat who has delusions of grandeur, I had to stop following him on twitch as his stream turned into him boasting about how amazing he is and how he singlehandedly made the devs listen to his ideas and how they listen to his advise because he’s so amazing. Insta-downs, speed add-ons and BBQ are not crutch just so you know
^ tell another lie. They are indeed very crutch. I would bet you my bank account that without Moris, bbq and chilli, insta down mechanics , and NOED that killers wouldn’t have a third or more of the kill rates they do now without them. The only person you are smoke screening is yourself. My friend if killers didn't have the things you just mentioned, killers wouldn't be played at all because they would be useless And there you go... the definition of a crutch.
If your not a SWF group then you feel the same way without your crutch perks too, now your arguing my whole point I say this quote as a fundamental flaw in the game system, I admit I did not make that clear in this post. BBQ is not a crutch because it requires an activation, and then a follow up on you behalf. Allow me to put it into a small list. Killer " crutches " BBQ: Requires a survivor to be found, hooked and then requires you to leave the hook to follow up on the information you have been given Mori: Requires a survivor to be hooked then unhhoked then downed again and finished. this also gives less points to the killer by the end of the match Insta downs: Fundamental part of killer kits to add uniqueness. Billy has very little control over where he moves during his sprint Leatherface has to be up their ass for his chainsaw to do anything and is severely punished for bumping into a wall Myers has limitations on how long he can insta down NOED: Can be completely removed before it even triggers by destroying the totems on the map, thus it has a hard counter Survivor crutches Decisive strike: Allows you to escape from being hooked. The consequence is meant to be that it is one time use, but one time use is enough to make killers lose games, so effectively no consequence Self care: Infinite healing, no consequence at all Flashlight: Allows players to save other players from killers, I guess the consequence is timing but that is easy to figure out and maintain Sprint Burst: Immediate escape from the vicinity of a killer with the consequence only being a 40 second cooldown. I could go on but you get the jist. The reason people may CONSIDER BBQ to be a crutch is because of how many killers use it. This however is because of the weakness of the killer vs survivor. if the game was balanced then I would bet anything that you would see BBQ much less Oh my god seriously: you can apply any downside you want to these things using your argument. Selfcare: you have to be found and hit before you can use it and requires an escape and to be out of sound radius. DS: requires you to be downed and able to hit the skill check, once missed perk is gone and can’t be reused.
Concequence is subjective so isn’t a strong argument. Buuuuuuut as I repeatedly try to explain the consequence is far, far, FAR lesser on survivor than killer DS skillcheck is easy to hit SC REMOVES the need for teamwork, eg. when you have been unhooked, you need no reliance on your team mates to heal you, you can just wander off yourself to do it
And as I’ve repeatedly said consequence is not a defining factor of a crutch
Well it is. Because tell me, if you used decisive strike, but after you used it the next time you were hooked you were dead immediately. Lets say this was implemented, would you still use DS? I doubt it because the CONSEQUENCE would be extremely high. You would have gone from being able to be hooked twice before the third kills you, to being hooked once immediately killing you
i would say those who use it would still use it just as much yes, because the majority will save it till last hook anyway, as they do now.
Ok then, seeing your point, it would still be a big nerf to DS because you would at least get hooks off on the survivor.
Can we agree? -
@HeroLives said:
IronWolf115 said:@HeroLives said:
IronWolf115 said:
@Paddy4583 said: IronWolf115 said:
@HeroLives said: IronWolf115 said:
@Paddy4583 said: RemoveSWF said:
Because vaulting over things and dropping down is SO HARD as a survivor. Bullshit. You should have lost these second/third/fourth chance crutch perks years ago. You've been coddled and you're entitled. No survivor should be able to loop a killer for three generators or more. The reason they can is due to exploit abuse (pallet looping) and OP perks. In future, how about learning to hide and juke instead of playing fearlessly because you know DbD killers are weak as piss and your God perks will save your griefer ass. Like insta downs, speed addons and BBQ and ruin all the crux you use.
I begining to think you are just a bad killer main who uses any excuse. You won’t be happy untill survivors are just AI that are easy for you to beat. You say get better at hiding but that’s only viable if the killer depart know where the gens are else your just hiding while some killer runs from gen to gen. tyme is a total ass hat who has delusions of grandeur, I had to stop following him on twitch as his stream turned into him boasting about how amazing he is and how he singlehandedly made the devs listen to his ideas and how they listen to his advise because he’s so amazing. Insta-downs, speed add-ons and BBQ are not crutch just so you know
^ tell another lie. They are indeed very crutch. I would bet you my bank account that without Moris, bbq and chilli, insta down mechanics , and NOED that killers wouldn’t have a third or more of the kill rates they do now without them. The only person you are smoke screening is yourself. My friend if killers didn't have the things you just mentioned, killers wouldn't be played at all because they would be useless And there you go... the definition of a crutch.
If your not a SWF group then you feel the same way without your crutch perks too, now your arguing my whole point I say this quote as a fundamental flaw in the game system, I admit I did not make that clear in this post. BBQ is not a crutch because it requires an activation, and then a follow up on you behalf. Allow me to put it into a small list. Killer " crutches " BBQ: Requires a survivor to be found, hooked and then requires you to leave the hook to follow up on the information you have been given Mori: Requires a survivor to be hooked then unhhoked then downed again and finished. this also gives less points to the killer by the end of the match Insta downs: Fundamental part of killer kits to add uniqueness. Billy has very little control over where he moves during his sprint Leatherface has to be up their ass for his chainsaw to do anything and is severely punished for bumping into a wall Myers has limitations on how long he can insta down NOED: Can be completely removed before it even triggers by destroying the totems on the map, thus it has a hard counter Survivor crutches Decisive strike: Allows you to escape from being hooked. The consequence is meant to be that it is one time use, but one time use is enough to make killers lose games, so effectively no consequence Self care: Infinite healing, no consequence at all Flashlight: Allows players to save other players from killers, I guess the consequence is timing but that is easy to figure out and maintain Sprint Burst: Immediate escape from the vicinity of a killer with the consequence only being a 40 second cooldown. I could go on but you get the jist. The reason people may CONSIDER BBQ to be a crutch is because of how many killers use it. This however is because of the weakness of the killer vs survivor. if the game was balanced then I would bet anything that you would see BBQ much less I won’t argue that survivors don’t have crutches. I know they do. In the right survivors hands(higher ranks it’s apparently a nightmare) and in large numbers nightmare. I solo que 98% of the time. I do better on my own. That’s just me personally though, I’m an exception not the rule.
Im just saying survivors and killers have crutches. That’s my only argument. Do with it what you will.
I have just put up another post to try and explain a bit more where I am coming from. i hope it helps
I know where you’re coming from man. That’s why when I saw they were nerfing survivors and buffing killers I haven’t cried about it. I’m sure if it tilts the balance way too much they’ll adjust the gameplay so it’s more asymmetrical. ive had this game 2 months. Here is what I know as a fact
- There have been plenty of times that crutch survivor perks saved my life and I made it longer in the game ,If not escaped.
- There have been plenty of times where if killers didn’t have those things I mentioned I would have survived ,but died instead.
yeah all I want is a discussion rather than argument. I feel it benefits everyone better. Thank you for being reasonable!
-
@Paddy4583 said:
IronWolf115 said:@Paddy4583 said:
IronWolf115 said:
I feel I should post something here about the very apparent crutch argument that is happening here. If a survivor uses DS as an example, they are using that perk because it is a powerful advantage with no consequence. They don't need to use it but they do because why the hell not. If a killer uses BBQ, they are using that because they need to make as much out of the time they have as possible. Which I understand could be seen as crutch also. The reason these two are different though is because of balance of the game: The crutch of DS is far more malicious than the crutch of BBQ. Another important factor to look at is the ability to counter killer "crutch" perks vs survivor crutch perks. NOED and BBQ both have counters whereas DS and SC do not, if they did, then the debate here would be different. Nurses calling is a counter to selfcare.
Killers can block a DS in a corner rendering it useless, no hook mori counters this too.
Im pretty sure we are going to have a redefinition of the word consequence and counter now
Nurses is only a counter if they heal within your terror radius, which would be stupid on their behalf
And there is absolutely no garuntee that you will get a survivor in a corner for the DS to pop
NOED can only be countered if all the survivors cleanse which There is no guarantee will be done, BBQ you have to be right place right time to counter.
like ive said subjective arguments can’t be won, and your definition doesn’t stand as we can subjectively apply it to anything we want.
Well you have more than enough opportunity to cleanse all the totems, and I have seen it happen many times. And if someone gets downed, then you should just assume BBQ and you could get to a location where it would not affect you, such as behind a generator
-
@Paddy4583 said:
IronWolf115 said:@Paddy4583 said:
IronWolf115 said:
@Paddy4583 said: IronWolf115 said:
@HeroLives said: IronWolf115 said:
@Paddy4583 said: RemoveSWF said:
Because vaulting over things and dropping down is SO HARD as a survivor. Bullshit. You should have lost these second/third/fourth chance crutch perks years ago. You've been coddled and you're entitled. No survivor should be able to loop a killer for three generators or more. The reason they can is due to exploit abuse (pallet looping) and OP perks. In future, how about learning to hide and juke instead of playing fearlessly because you know DbD killers are weak as piss and your God perks will save your griefer ass. Like insta downs, speed addons and BBQ and ruin all the crux you use.
I begining to think you are just a bad killer main who uses any excuse. You won’t be happy untill survivors are just AI that are easy for you to beat. You say get better at hiding but that’s only viable if the killer depart know where the gens are else your just hiding while some killer runs from gen to gen. tyme is a total ass hat who has delusions of grandeur, I had to stop following him on twitch as his stream turned into him boasting about how amazing he is and how he singlehandedly made the devs listen to his ideas and how they listen to his advise because he’s so amazing. Insta-downs, speed add-ons and BBQ are not crutch just so you know
^ tell another lie. They are indeed very crutch. I would bet you my bank account that without Moris, bbq and chilli, insta down mechanics , and NOED that killers wouldn’t have a third or more of the kill rates they do now without them. The only person you are smoke screening is yourself. My friend if killers didn't have the things you just mentioned, killers wouldn't be played at all because they would be useless And there you go... the definition of a crutch.
If your not a SWF group then you feel the same way without your crutch perks too, now your arguing my whole point I say this quote as a fundamental flaw in the game system, I admit I did not make that clear in this post. BBQ is not a crutch because it requires an activation, and then a follow up on you behalf. Allow me to put it into a small list. Killer " crutches " BBQ: Requires a survivor to be found, hooked and then requires you to leave the hook to follow up on the information you have been given Mori: Requires a survivor to be hooked then unhhoked then downed again and finished. this also gives less points to the killer by the end of the match Insta downs: Fundamental part of killer kits to add uniqueness. Billy has very little control over where he moves during his sprint Leatherface has to be up their ass for his chainsaw to do anything and is severely punished for bumping into a wall Myers has limitations on how long he can insta down NOED: Can be completely removed before it even triggers by destroying the totems on the map, thus it has a hard counter Survivor crutches Decisive strike: Allows you to escape from being hooked. The consequence is meant to be that it is one time use, but one time use is enough to make killers lose games, so effectively no consequence Self care: Infinite healing, no consequence at all Flashlight: Allows players to save other players from killers, I guess the consequence is timing but that is easy to figure out and maintain Sprint Burst: Immediate escape from the vicinity of a killer with the consequence only being a 40 second cooldown. I could go on but you get the jist. The reason people may CONSIDER BBQ to be a crutch is because of how many killers use it. This however is because of the weakness of the killer vs survivor. if the game was balanced then I would bet anything that you would see BBQ much less Oh my god seriously: you can apply any downside you want to these things using your argument. Selfcare: you have to be found and hit before you can use it and requires an escape and to be out of sound radius. DS: requires you to be downed and able to hit the skill check, once missed perk is gone and can’t be reused.
Concequence is subjective so isn’t a strong argument.
Buuuuuuut as I repeatedly try to explain the consequence is far, far, FAR lesser on survivor than killer
DS skillcheck is easy to hit
SC REMOVES the need for teamwork, eg. when you have been unhooked, you need no reliance on your team mates to heal you, you can just wander off yourself to do it
And as I’ve repeatedly said consequence is not a defining factor of a crutch
Well it is. Because tell me, if you used decisive strike, but after you used it the next time you were hooked you were dead immediately. Lets say this was implemented, would you still use DS? I doubt it because the CONSEQUENCE would be extremely high. You would have gone from being able to be hooked twice before the third kills you, to being hooked once immediately killing you
-
@Paddy4583 said:
IronWolf115 said:I feel I should post something here about the very apparent crutch argument that is happening here.
If a survivor uses DS as an example, they are using that perk because it is a powerful advantage with no consequence. They don't need to use it but they do because why the hell not.
If a killer uses BBQ, they are using that because they need to make as much out of the time they have as possible. Which I understand could be seen as crutch also.
The reason these two are different though is because of balance of the game: The crutch of DS is far more malicious than the crutch of BBQ.
Another important factor to look at is the ability to counter killer "crutch" perks vs survivor crutch perks.
NOED and BBQ both have counters whereas DS and SC do not, if they did, then the debate here would be different.
Nurses calling is a counter to selfcare.
Killers can block a DS in a corner rendering it useless, no hook mori counters this too.Im pretty sure we are going to have a redefinition of the word consequence and counter now
Nurses is only a counter if they heal within your terror radius, which would be stupid on their behalf
And there is absolutely no garuntee that you will get a survivor in a corner for the DS to pop -
@Paddy4583 said:
IronWolf115 said:@Paddy4583 said:
IronWolf115 said:
@HeroLives said: IronWolf115 said:
@Paddy4583 said: RemoveSWF said:
Because vaulting over things and dropping down is SO HARD as a survivor. Bullshit. You should have lost these second/third/fourth chance crutch perks years ago. You've been coddled and you're entitled. No survivor should be able to loop a killer for three generators or more. The reason they can is due to exploit abuse (pallet looping) and OP perks. In future, how about learning to hide and juke instead of playing fearlessly because you know DbD killers are weak as piss and your God perks will save your griefer ass. Like insta downs, speed addons and BBQ and ruin all the crux you use.
I begining to think you are just a bad killer main who uses any excuse. You won’t be happy untill survivors are just AI that are easy for you to beat. You say get better at hiding but that’s only viable if the killer depart know where the gens are else your just hiding while some killer runs from gen to gen. tyme is a total ass hat who has delusions of grandeur, I had to stop following him on twitch as his stream turned into him boasting about how amazing he is and how he singlehandedly made the devs listen to his ideas and how they listen to his advise because he’s so amazing. Insta-downs, speed add-ons and BBQ are not crutch just so you know
^ tell another lie. They are indeed very crutch. I would bet you my bank account that without Moris, bbq and chilli, insta down mechanics , and NOED that killers wouldn’t have a third or more of the kill rates they do now without them. The only person you are smoke screening is yourself. My friend if killers didn't have the things you just mentioned, killers wouldn't be played at all because they would be useless And there you go... the definition of a crutch.
If your not a SWF group then you feel the same way without your crutch perks too, now your arguing my whole point
I say this quote as a fundamental flaw in the game system, I admit I did not make that clear in this post. BBQ is not a crutch because it requires an activation, and then a follow up on you behalf. Allow me to put it into a small list.
Killer " crutches "
BBQ: Requires a survivor to be found, hooked and then requires you to leave the hook to follow up on the information you have been given
Mori: Requires a survivor to be hooked then unhhoked then downed again and finished. this also gives less points to the killer by the end of the match
Insta downs: Fundamental part of killer kits to add uniqueness.
Billy has very little control over where he moves during his sprint
Leatherface has to be up their ass for his chainsaw to do anything and is severely punished for bumping into a wall
Myers has limitations on how long he can insta down
NOED: Can be completely removed before it even triggers by destroying the totems on the map, thus it has a hard counter
Survivor crutches
Decisive strike: Allows you to escape from being hooked. The consequence is meant to be that it is one time use, but one time use is enough to make killers lose games, so effectively no consequence
Self care: Infinite healing, no consequence at all
Flashlight: Allows players to save other players from killers, I guess the consequence is timing but that is easy to figure out and maintain
Sprint Burst: Immediate escape from the vicinity of a killer with the consequence only being a 40 second cooldown.
I could go on but you get the jist. The reason people may CONSIDER BBQ to be a crutch is because of how many killers use it. This however is because of the weakness of the killer vs survivor. if the game was balanced then I would bet anything that you would see BBQ much less
Oh my god seriously:
you can apply any downside you want to these things using your argument.
Selfcare: you have to be found and hit before you can use it and requires an escape and to be out of sound radius.
DS: requires you to be downed and able to hit the skill check, once missed perk is gone and can’t be reused.
Concequence is subjective so isn’t a strong argument.
Buuuuuuut as I repeatedly try to explain the consequence is far, far, FAR lesser on survivor than killer
DS skillcheck is easy to hit
SC REMOVES the need for teamwork, eg. when you have been unhooked, you need no reliance on your team mates to heal you, you can just wander off yourself to do it -
@HeroLives said:
IronWolf115 said:@Paddy4583 said:
IronWolf115 said:
@HeroLives said: IronWolf115 said:
@Paddy4583 said: RemoveSWF said:
Because vaulting over things and dropping down is SO HARD as a survivor. Bullshit. You should have lost these second/third/fourth chance crutch perks years ago. You've been coddled and you're entitled. No survivor should be able to loop a killer for three generators or more. The reason they can is due to exploit abuse (pallet looping) and OP perks. In future, how about learning to hide and juke instead of playing fearlessly because you know DbD killers are weak as piss and your God perks will save your griefer ass. Like insta downs, speed addons and BBQ and ruin all the crux you use.
I begining to think you are just a bad killer main who uses any excuse. You won’t be happy untill survivors are just AI that are easy for you to beat. You say get better at hiding but that’s only viable if the killer depart know where the gens are else your just hiding while some killer runs from gen to gen. tyme is a total ass hat who has delusions of grandeur, I had to stop following him on twitch as his stream turned into him boasting about how amazing he is and how he singlehandedly made the devs listen to his ideas and how they listen to his advise because he’s so amazing. Insta-downs, speed add-ons and BBQ are not crutch just so you know
^ tell another lie. They are indeed very crutch. I would bet you my bank account that without Moris, bbq and chilli, insta down mechanics , and NOED that killers wouldn’t have a third or more of the kill rates they do now without them. The only person you are smoke screening is yourself. My friend if killers didn't have the things you just mentioned, killers wouldn't be played at all because they would be useless And there you go... the definition of a crutch.
If your not a SWF group then you feel the same way without your crutch perks too, now your arguing my whole point
I say this quote as a fundamental flaw in the game system, I admit I did not make that clear in this post. BBQ is not a crutch because it requires an activation, and then a follow up on you behalf. Allow me to put it into a small list.
Killer " crutches "
BBQ: Requires a survivor to be found, hooked and then requires you to leave the hook to follow up on the information you have been given
Mori: Requires a survivor to be hooked then unhhoked then downed again and finished. this also gives less points to the killer by the end of the match
Insta downs: Fundamental part of killer kits to add uniqueness.
Billy has very little control over where he moves during his sprint
Leatherface has to be up their ass for his chainsaw to do anything and is severely punished for bumping into a wall
Myers has limitations on how long he can insta down
NOED: Can be completely removed before it even triggers by destroying the totems on the map, thus it has a hard counter
Survivor crutches
Decisive strike: Allows you to escape from being hooked. The consequence is meant to be that it is one time use, but one time use is enough to make killers lose games, so effectively no consequence
Self care: Infinite healing, no consequence at all
Flashlight: Allows players to save other players from killers, I guess the consequence is timing but that is easy to figure out and maintain
Sprint Burst: Immediate escape from the vicinity of a killer with the consequence only being a 40 second cooldown.
I could go on but you get the jist. The reason people may CONSIDER BBQ to be a crutch is because of how many killers use it. This however is because of the weakness of the killer vs survivor. if the game was balanced then I would bet anything that you would see BBQ much less
I won’t argue that survivors don’t have crutches. I know they do. In the right survivors hands(higher ranks it’s apparently a nightmare) and in large numbers nightmare.
I solo que 98% of the time. I do better on my own. That’s just me personally though, I’m an exception not the rule.
Im just saying survivors and killers have crutches. That’s my only argument. Do with it what you will.
I have just put up another post to try and explain a bit more where I am coming from. i hope it helps
-
I feel I should post something here about the very apparent crutch argument that is happening here.
If a survivor uses DS as an example, they are using that perk because it is a powerful advantage with no consequence. They don't need to use it but they do because why the hell not.
If a killer uses BBQ, they are using that because they need to make as much out of the time they have as possible. Which I understand could be seen as crutch also.
The reason these two are different though is because of balance of the game: The crutch of DS is far more malicious than the crutch of BBQ.
Another important factor to look at is the ability to counter killer "crutch" perks vs survivor crutch perks.
NOED and BBQ both have counters whereas DS and SC do not, if they did, then the debate here would be different.
-
@thesuicidefox said:
@FrenziedRoach said:
All these perks must always be a "once per chase" perk, PERIODI could count on 1 hand the number of times I've seen DH, Lithe, or BL used twice in a chase. It's extremely rare for that to happen. SB on the other hand can easily EASILY trigger multiple times in a chase. Two SB in a chase is very common, and I've even seen 3 SB in a chase if they run vigil. The difference between SB and other exhaustion perks purely in terms of how often you do it in a single chase is staggering. As killer I've never NEVER had an instance where I'm like "oh man Lithe again?!". It's always something used once, and either you escape or the chase continues and you eventually get caught. The fact these 3 perks require a specific trigger while SB doesn't is the reason for this.
IMO a better solution to this problem would just be to add a stipulation to SB that reads "If you equip this perk you cannot recover Exhaustion while running." That's it, now SB won't trigger multiple times in a chase and other exhaustion perks remain unaffected. Even though they could potentially trigger multiple times in a chase too, the potential is so abysmally low that it's not really an issue. If you are killer and someone gets DH on you twice in one chase then chances are you are just a bad killer, not that the perk is too good.
I mean DH especially is easy to counter once you know someone has it. Just get really close and they use it. Also any sort of insta-down is a total hard counter to DH. DH is no where near the same level as SB. Only reason people even use DH is because most killers fall for it every time. Against a killer with any sort of brains though, DH is pretty useless.
Yeah, my biggest problem with the exhaustion nerf is the hit it will give to dead hard. it doesn't need nerfing
-
@Paddy4583 said:
IronWolf115 said:@HeroLives said:
IronWolf115 said:
@Paddy4583 said: RemoveSWF said:
Because vaulting over things and dropping down is SO HARD as a survivor. Bullshit. You should have lost these second/third/fourth chance crutch perks years ago. You've been coddled and you're entitled. No survivor should be able to loop a killer for three generators or more. The reason they can is due to exploit abuse (pallet looping) and OP perks. In future, how about learning to hide and juke instead of playing fearlessly because you know DbD killers are weak as piss and your God perks will save your griefer ass. Like insta downs, speed addons and BBQ and ruin all the crux you use.
I begining to think you are just a bad killer main who uses any excuse. You won’t be happy untill survivors are just AI that are easy for you to beat. You say get better at hiding but that’s only viable if the killer depart know where the gens are else your just hiding while some killer runs from gen to gen. tyme is a total ass hat who has delusions of grandeur, I had to stop following him on twitch as his stream turned into him boasting about how amazing he is and how he singlehandedly made the devs listen to his ideas and how they listen to his advise because he’s so amazing. Insta-downs, speed add-ons and BBQ are not crutch just so you know
^ tell another lie. They are indeed very crutch. I would bet you my bank account that without Moris, bbq and chilli, insta down mechanics , and NOED that killers wouldn’t have a third or more of the kill rates they do now without them. The only person you are smoke screening is yourself.
My friend if killers didn't have the things you just mentioned, killers wouldn't be played at all because they would be useless
And there you go... the definition of a crutch.
If your not a SWF group then you feel the same way without your crutch perks too, now your arguing my whole pointI say this quote as a fundamental flaw in the game system, I admit I did not make that clear in this post. BBQ is not a crutch because it requires an activation, and then a follow up on you behalf. Allow me to put it into a small list.
Killer " crutches "
BBQ: Requires a survivor to be found, hooked and then requires you to leave the hook to follow up on the information you have been given
Mori: Requires a survivor to be hooked then unhhoked then downed again and finished. this also gives less points to the killer by the end of the match
Insta downs: Fundamental part of killer kits to add uniqueness.
Billy has very little control over where he moves during his sprint
Leatherface has to be up their ass for his chainsaw to do anything and is severely punished for bumping into a wall
Myers has limitations on how long he can insta down
NOED: Can be completely removed before it even triggers by destroying the totems on the map, thus it has a hard counterSurvivor crutches
Decisive strike: Allows you to escape from being hooked. The consequence is meant to be that it is one time use, but one time use is enough to make killers lose games, so effectively no consequence
Self care: Infinite healing, no consequence at all
Flashlight: Allows players to save other players from killers, I guess the consequence is timing but that is easy to figure out and maintain
Sprint Burst: Immediate escape from the vicinity of a killer with the consequence only being a 40 second cooldown.I could go on but you get the jist. The reason people may CONSIDER BBQ to be a crutch is because of how many killers use it. This however is because of the weakness of the killer vs survivor. if the game was balanced then I would bet anything that you would see BBQ much less
-
@HeroLives said:
IronWolf115 said:@Paddy4583 said:
RemoveSWF said:
Because vaulting over things and dropping down is SO HARD as a survivor. Bullshit. You should have lost these second/third/fourth chance crutch perks years ago. You've been coddled and you're entitled. No survivor should be able to loop a killer for three generators or more. The reason they can is due to exploit abuse (pallet looping) and OP perks. In future, how about learning to hide and juke instead of playing fearlessly because you know DbD killers are weak as piss and your God perks will save your griefer ass. Like insta downs, speed addons and BBQ and ruin all the crux you use.
I begining to think you are just a bad killer main who uses any excuse. You won’t be happy untill survivors are just AI that are easy for you to beat. You say get better at hiding but that’s only viable if the killer depart know where the gens are else your just hiding while some killer runs from gen to gen.
tyme is a total ass hat who has delusions of grandeur, I had to stop following him on twitch as his stream turned into him boasting about how amazing he is and how he singlehandedly made the devs listen to his ideas and how they listen to his advise because he’s so amazing.
Insta-downs, speed add-ons and BBQ are not crutch just so you know
^ tell another lie. They are indeed very crutch. I would bet you my bank account that without Moris, bbq and chilli, insta down mechanics , and NOED that killers wouldn’t have a third or more of the kill rates they do now without them. The only person you are smoke screening is yourself.
My friend if killers didn't have the things you just mentioned, killers wouldn't be played at all because they would be useless
-
@Paddy4583 said:
IronWolf115 said:@Paddy4583 said:
IronWolf115 said:
@Paddy4583 said: IronWolf115 said:
@Paddy4583 said: IronWolf115 said:
Billy himself is a crutch he’s pretty much all you see at high ranks? It’s relyed on and there for a crutch. Forgot to respond to this, Billy is not a crutch again for the reason that Billy is FAR from unbeatable. Billy suffers from loops and pallets just like most other killers. And just so you know, Nurse is actually better than Billy, so if killers were crutches then wouldn't everyone play Nurse? And survivors are far from unbeatable. Your skirting round and the nurse is played the same at high ranks. So your point is still void.
your redefining to fit your argument and by redefining your changing your argument either way you either class them as crutches or yoir saying neither are crutches The problem is that survivors are FAR too hard to beat, and you said Hillbilly only, not Nurse so I would ask you to include that when you write a comment. I also am to notice that after all these posts you are STILL to tell me why BBQ is a crutch perk?
I didn’t say hillbilly only, I used him as an example, I didn’t limit anything. There is no point you can’t stay consistent in your definitions so it’s irrelevant. Your defending the undefendable which is why you can’t remain consistent You said and I quote "Billy himself is a crutch he's pretty much all you see at high ranks" You DID NOT say " Killers LIKE Hillbilly are a crutch" And AGAIN you display an inability to explain you logic behind BBQ being crutch. It's not a case that your talking point is bad, it's that your talking point is non-existant. And I have little time for people who cannot defend their own stances. Good day to you It’s simple if you stop changing the meaning of the word.
crutch: anything that serves as a temporary support.
BBQ falls directly into that definition, if it wasn’t so useful as a tracking perk it wouldn’t be the a staple of a killers build.
You are redefining staying I must give a down side to things at a detrimental level for it to be a crutch, your merly trying to get me to define something using your definition. Remember I didn’t disagree that the survivor perks were crutches I merly stayed the killers have the same, to which you argued and defined, I don’t agree with your definition, to do so I would have to say that the survivor perks aren’t crutches, which I do not.
A crutch is ANYTHING that serves as TEMPORARY support?
That is most perks in the game then
I’ve edit that, stop with the semantics, your definitions cover most of them too
Well you hadn't edited it when I wrote that.
Even then you are incorrect because Self care is a crutch perk and that has an infinite effect for survivors -
@Paddy4583 said:
IronWolf115 said:@Paddy4583 said:
IronWolf115 said:
@Paddy4583 said: IronWolf115 said:
Billy himself is a crutch he’s pretty much all you see at high ranks? It’s relyed on and there for a crutch. Forgot to respond to this, Billy is not a crutch again for the reason that Billy is FAR from unbeatable. Billy suffers from loops and pallets just like most other killers. And just so you know, Nurse is actually better than Billy, so if killers were crutches then wouldn't everyone play Nurse? And survivors are far from unbeatable. Your skirting round and the nurse is played the same at high ranks. So your point is still void.
your redefining to fit your argument and by redefining your changing your argument either way you either class them as crutches or yoir saying neither are crutches The problem is that survivors are FAR too hard to beat, and you said Hillbilly only, not Nurse so I would ask you to include that when you write a comment. I also am to notice that after all these posts you are STILL to tell me why BBQ is a crutch perk?
I didn’t say hillbilly only, I used him as an example, I didn’t limit anything. There is no point you can’t stay consistent in your definitions so it’s irrelevant. Your defending the undefendable which is why you can’t remain consistent
You said and I quote "Billy himself is a crutch he's pretty much all you see at high ranks"
You DID NOT say " Killers LIKE Hillbilly are a crutch"
And AGAIN you display an inability to explain you logic behind BBQ being crutch.
It's not a case that your talking point is bad, it's that your talking point is non-existant. And I have little time for people who cannot defend their own stances.
Good day to you
It’s simple if you stop changing the meaning of the word.
crutch: anything that serves as a temporary support.BBQ falls directly into that definition, if it wasn’t so useful as a tracking perk it wouldn’t be the a staple of a killers build.
You are redefining staying I must give a down side to things at a detrimental level for it to be a crutch, your merly trying to get me to define something using your definition. Remember I didn’t disagree that the survivor perks were crutches I merly stayed the killers have the same, to which you argued and defined, I don’t agree with your definition, to do so I would have to say that the survivor perks aren’t crutches, which I do not.
A crutch is ANYTHING that serves as TEMPORARY support?
That is most perks in the game then
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@shadowsfall42 said:
I'd rather he as well as other killers get a buff so the Nurse isn't the only killer that doesn't have to rely on survivor mistakes to win.I don't know whether the Billy needs a buff to get him to Nurse status, he's pretty good right now. But absolutely all other killers need buffs to get them to at least his level of power.
"cough cough" Leatherface buffs "cough"
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@MegaWaffle said:
I'll make this simple for everyone. Stop fighting with one another, keep in mind we could have all made the mistake of playing F13 instead.what a horrible thought
Oh god, lawsuit hell.
But yes I agree I made this discuaaion as just that: A discussion, not an argument
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@MegaWaffle said:
@Paddy4583 said:
IronWolf115 said:@Paddy4583 said:
IronWolf115 said:
@Paddy4583 said: IronWolf115 said:
@Paddy4583 said: IronWolf115 said:
@Paddy4583 said: RemoveSWF said:
Because vaulting over things and dropping down is SO HARD as a survivor. Bullshit. You should have lost these second/third/fourth chance crutch perks years ago. You've been coddled and you're entitled. No survivor should be able to loop a killer for three generators or more. The reason they can is due to exploit abuse (pallet looping) and OP perks. In future, how about learning to hide and juke instead of playing fearlessly because you know DbD killers are weak as piss and your God perks will save your griefer ass. Like insta downs, speed addons and BBQ and ruin all the crux you use.
I begining to think you are just a bad killer main who uses any excuse. You won’t be happy untill survivors are just AI that are easy for you to beat. You say get better at hiding but that’s only viable if the killer depart know where the gens are else your just hiding while some killer runs from gen to gen. tyme is a total ass hat who has delusions of grandeur, I had to stop following him on twitch as his stream turned into him boasting about how amazing he is and how he singlehandedly made the devs listen to his ideas and how they listen to his advise because he’s so amazing. Insta-downs, speed add-ons and BBQ are not crutch just so you know
Oh so neither are the above mentioned for survivors just so you know, I forget how easy it is to just change the meaning of a word to suit your position A crutch, is a perk or item that gives you power without consequence, BBQ you still have to chase survivors down and down them, it doesn't do it for you. Insta-downs have some sort of downsides to them, Billy his very liitle control during his sprint, Leatherface has tpo chase survivors down before his chainsaw is useful and Myers Insta down is limited. Speed add-ons are actually getting nerfed with tinkerer changes and even then, with speed add-ons you have to still meet the conditions of if you didn't have
No one ever defines a crutch as a consequence related thing. A crutch is something a person depends on hence the term crutch. Yes' and this dependence comes from lack of consequence Not at all, you can say they all have a degree of consequence, and therefore they can’t fall into your definition at all.
you defined limited which some of these are, you said they are being nurfed as are these so they no longer meet your definition
I would ask you then to tell me the consequence of Decisive strike, sprint burst and Self care, vs the consequence of BBQ and insta down attacks
I don’t need to you defined it yourself. You claim limited as a consequence and some of these are limited, you defined control as a consequence some of these can’t be controlled, you stated some were being nurfed and so are these, so by your own definition they aren’t crutches.
Billy himself is a crutch he’s pretty much all you see at high ranks? It’s relyed on and there for a crutch.
You can't make a statement and then ask the other person to come up with the reasoning behind it. If you cannot name the consequence for him why would he be inclined to defend your point of view? There is no consequence to DS. If you run DS you are A: Going to be ignored because a free escape isn't worth chasing you for, or B: Going to get slugged, giving you more time to be saved. SB gives you a free chance to start looping if you are found because the speed boost negates being caught off guard. It might limit your ability to run around when not in a chase but if you know the killer is chasing someone else then that 40s cooldown doesn't matter and you can run freely. I agree Dead Hard is fine the way it is and the exhaustion nerf hurts that perk most of all. Lithe lacks the initial speed boost from SB but vaults are very easy to find and on some maps where SB would cause you to lose the boost to speed Lithe gives you that amazing escape. Self Care means you can erase all negative effects from a chase if the killer looses you or gives up on you making him waste 100% of his time. If you had to find someone else to heal you then that would be wasting your teams time but self care negates even that possible downside.
BBQ and Chili requires you to hunt distant targets down who can A: Hide behind generators to avoid the aura or B: Just leave in a different direction after 3-4 seconds. BBQ only works well if the survivor you are after doesn't know you have the perk or isn't very good at basic strategy, making it possible to waste your time leaving a hook to find someone who is no longer there. Instant downs, NOED, only works at end game assuming the totems have not been destroyed. So its a perk that may not even have the opportunity to be used during a match and you cannot play around it being destroyed because you can't see the totems. If you are including limited add-ons in this argument (be they survivor or killer) I don't think that's a reasonable argument. The point of add-ons are to give you a fun reward for playing and finding the offering in a bloodweb. They are meant to be limited items that help twist a match or two. The only real problem here is that the game is 1 v 4 meaning you are more likely to have survivors using an amazing add on than a killer, that's a statistical fact.
So yes the survivor perks mentioned have far lower consequences (if any) then the killer perks being argued. And in the case where you get a BBQ billy on that huge open corn map (this instant I do see it being very strong) is incredibly rare and not something you can claim to be OP. The fact is this game will never find a perfect balance because the community is so unevenly split. You theoretically have 4 survivor oriented players per every 1 killer oriented player making opinions clash too frequently.
I like you, you are a logical gentleman/lady.
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@Paddy4583 said:
IronWolf115 said:@Paddy4583 said:
IronWolf115 said:
Billy himself is a crutch he’s pretty much all you see at high ranks? It’s relyed on and there for a crutch. Forgot to respond to this, Billy is not a crutch again for the reason that Billy is FAR from unbeatable. Billy suffers from loops and pallets just like most other killers. And just so you know, Nurse is actually better than Billy, so if killers were crutches then wouldn't everyone play Nurse? And survivors are far from unbeatable. Your skirting round and the nurse is played the same at high ranks. So your point is still void.
your redefining to fit your argument and by redefining your changing your argument either way you either class them as crutches or yoir
saying neither are crutches
The problem is that survivors are FAR too hard to beat, and you said Hillbilly only, not Nurse so I would ask you to include that when you write a comment. I also am to notice that after all these posts you are STILL to tell me why BBQ is a crutch perk?
I didn’t say hillbilly only, I used him as an example, I didn’t limit anything. There is no point you can’t stay consistent in your definitions so it’s irrelevant. Your defending the undefendable which is why you can’t remain consistent
You said and I quote "Billy himself is a crutch he's pretty much all you see at high ranks"
You DID NOT say " Killers LIKE Hillbilly are a crutch"
And AGAIN you display an inability to explain you logic behind BBQ being crutch.
It's not a case that your talking point is bad, it's that your talking point is non-existant. And I have little time for people who cannot defend their own stances.Good day to you
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@Paddy4583 said:
IronWolf115 said:Billy himself is a crutch he’s pretty much all you see at high ranks? It’s relyed on and there for a crutch.
Forgot to respond to this, Billy is not a crutch again for the reason that Billy is FAR from unbeatable. Billy suffers from loops and pallets just like most other killers. And just so you know, Nurse is actually better than Billy, so if killers were crutches then wouldn't everyone play Nurse?
And survivors are far from unbeatable. Your skirting round and the nurse is played the same at high ranks. So your point is still void.
your redefining to fit your argument and by redefining your changing your argument either way you either class them as crutches or yoir
saying neither are crutchesThe problem is that survivors are FAR too hard to beat, and you said Hillbilly only, not Nurse so I would ask you to include that when you write a comment. I also am to notice that after all these posts you are STILL to tell me why BBQ is a crutch perk?