FearedbytheGods
FearedbytheGods
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@Faceless said:
Buff mettle of man again.
Campers ruin this game alot, it's just ridiculous. EVERYTIME a facecamp killer appears (leatherface is 100%) .
Seriously why so many stupid toxic killers in low ranks?
DC penalties means that survivors cant manage their games anymore so killer camping/tunneling has gone up, because they know people will stay.
Also, smurf accounts, entitled killers will obliterate low ranks just for their epeen.
Seriously killers were manageable if they knew survivors would leave sweaty games. But they don't have that fear anymore so, all I can recommend to you is 'family share' on your computer (if you PC). To keep your DC penalties low.
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Was a waste of resources.
He's still an annoying killer.
The D/C penalties have done more to keep survivors around in games, than the 'rework'.
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@finitethrills said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1174525#Comment_1174525
This is false equivalence. Everyone gets aura perks. This is about direct warning for every status effect. A true equivalent would be if the killer got a little timer under any survivor who was unhooked while having DS, counting down the the time to when it's safe for killer to pick them up. A currently equivalent is the deathslinger getting a bar under the redeemer... In the old days, they would've had to go off the sound alone.
Even if I give you that, the OP doesn't hold water. Which was the entire point of the rebuttal.
Poking holes in my logic is just ignoring the elephant in the room.
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@Weederick said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1174503#Comment_1174503
Im not upset at all, i find your "history lesson" was a good joke. Survivors were invincible and they got nerfed for good reason. They are still easily the power role, unless your too unskilled to run circles properly. Your wall of text is a desperate attempt to twist things, we all know DbD's balance. I cant believe humans actually believe this, but here you are
You CONSISTENTLY say "This is my opinion and I believe its true', I don't think you have ever offered anything beyond cheap comments and superficial burns.
Try and offer something more, because when people talk about 'critical thinking' those that respond with cheap derogatory comments don't have it.
Try, even just once, to rationalise your opinion beyond 'cause I say so'
Just so I can stop laughing at you.
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Back when it was peertopeer you'd see ratio's of 2/3 survivors to every killer, never the inverse.
It's only the killer echo room that would make you think these wait times were 'new'.
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@ZoneDymo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1174607#Comment_1174607
a bias.... dude... im ASKING SURVIVORS are annoyed by the amount of info SURVIVORS get....seriously reading comprehension gawd damn it man.
THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH KILLERS OR THEIR VIEWS, you want to talk about how killers get too much info and how killers are annoyed by that fact, FINE, make a new topic, this is about survivors FOR survivors.
If I have not made myself clear at this point then its beyond hope, honestly man, I AM ANNOYED AS A SURVIVOR THAT THE GAME TREATS ME LIKE A FFING BABY AND JUST FEELS THE NEED TO TELL ME EVERYTHING LIKE I DONT UNDERSTAND BY NOW HOW THE GAME WORKS.
jeez....
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1174609#Comment_1174609
Of course I have a bias, I dont like the way this game has turned out or is turning out, it gives more and more info that as a survivor I just find rediculous to have and completely ruins any idea of surprise or rewards any serious player for their experience. The question is how other fellow plays feel about this, maybe Im the odd one out for wanting not be treated like a baby. But again, Im disgusted by meta build survivors so yeah I guess I am the weirdo....
Anyway, as a killer for example, its pretty fun when survivors are the type that save at the last pixel and then run Monstrous Shrine and they are too late. As a survivor If I took that risk and then found out "oh snap, monstrous shrine?!!?!" that would be/is great, but with todays direction im pretty sure its just a matter of time before survivors simple get the notifaction this is in play so they will just know to save a bit earlier regardless of game knowledge/experience.
Blood Warden is one of the few bastions of surprise left and you see survivors keeping it in mind when playing, it separates those that are new from those with experience and its fun to learn from or to get surpised by.
Again with the way this game is going, it seems just a matter of time before that is also taken away and will just tell survivors as soon as the door is opened that Blood Warden can be proc'd.
Let me explain, because you clearly don't get it.
Your questions are loaded with a particular slant of information, that we have to ASSUME to be true to even begin the conversation with this thread.
What makes it that this info is too much?
If that's true doesn't correlate to the increases for killers that I mentioned?
If we assume that it is too much for survivors, can we also assume that we scale back on killers too?
I think the problem here is that my reading comprehension is too advanced for you.
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@ZoneDymo said:
Really, nobody?
Just admit you have a bias then.
Because the way you've framed this reminds me of all those 'reports' that talk about assault on campus' that turned out to be severely misleading, or 'self-fulfilling prophecy' if you will.
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@Ghostwithaface said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1172859#Comment_1172859
Where did i say it benefits survivors? I said it effects them as well. I do not recall anywhere stating, losing a man is positive. I clearly stated, one less person to body block, do gens or run the killer around. If anything, that sound like it would be negative, to me at least. Maybe i didn't make myself clear last time. Since you have one less person who can take a hit to protect others, one less person to do the main objective of getting gens done and one less person to chase the killer around aka giving time to the other survivors to do stuff. That is bad thing for survivors, since their odds of a successful escape when down.
Right, so you're agreeing with my initial statement or agreeing with the OP or both.
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@ZoneDymo said:
Really, nobody?
Can we talk about the killer babying? All the insta find, one shot mechanics killers have.
'It also removes a lot of skill which imo is sad because that could lead of fun tense situations but maybe that is just me'.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1172978#Comment_1172978
I agree with a lot of what you said in regards to SWF but Killer entitlement I don't. High ranked gameplay against SWF is the core issue the game faces, but this is an issue that is incredibly difficult to address because SWF is integral to the success of the game. You mention that when Killers complain about issues with the game, the developers respond and they get what they want, but from what I've been observing, the opposite is the truth. When the Nurse nerfs came, survivors saw this as an opportunity to complain about Spirit. What happened? she got nerfed. Ruin was complained about? nerfed.
The Ruin nerf is the reason we are currently in the gen rush meta and this is why Killers are as angry as they are. Failure to alleviate the core issue of the game while removing the one thing that at least attempted to dampen it created a huge problem.
Just look at recent history, EGC and hatch close, ALL benefit killer (amongst everything else I listed).
What you mentioned is because we are over 70% kill rates against survivors now and the devs have a choice about how they want to manage that. And according to them the metric is 2 kills, 2 escapes, so unless that changes, killers need push back and killers haven't dealt with that AT ALL.
They still doing weekley 'poor nurse' posts and went on and on for ages about poor legion nerfs until it was pointed out to them that legion kills were UP. That they finally went quiet.
You can call it something other than entitlement, but the killer community has no capacity to manage nerfs and streamers like Tru just propagate that attitude.
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@Weederick said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1172978#Comment_1172978
You poor survivor mains. I miss the days when i could stand at a window invincibly. Pressing Space every few seconds like a god. Those were the balanced days. Deciding wether i want to die or live. Now they took away the choice. I may die even if i dont want to! Death to all killer mains amirite
looool
You're the one who sounds upset.
Try a rationalised argument next time haha.
#killertears
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1172852#Comment_1172852
Just because the OP states facts, doesn't mean they are relevant to the overall topic.
Actually he's facts are on point.
History OF THE GAME:
Since release, killer has been buffed, survivor nerfed. This is important to understand and through examples you’ll see why that has happened. It shows you why the game has had the trajectory it has and why we are now in our current quagmire.
It all started with the introduction of swf and the 2 escapes, 2 kills devs unit of metric. You don’t have to like the metric but it’s whats given the survivors all their nerfs and all the killers current buffs.
The devs failed to understand that people would want to play with friends in an online game (serious), what we got was ‘lobby wars’. Where survivors would join different lobbies looking for their friends and leave if they couldn’t find them. It was horrible trying to find games. Hence why we got swf, that completely unbalanced the game by creating coordinated survivors that could communicate. The devs have been nerfing survivor ever since and completely crippled solo survivor play.
Killers now are up around 70% kills due to the trajectory of the game and the devs metric system, unless you feel their metric system is bad, in which case they can undo all the changes I've just mentioned....
It also important to mention marketing and advertising. There’s nothing special about survivors, they are just reskins with some new perks that all play the same. THATS IT. EACH killer has its own unique play style and as you see from their advertising, its always new killers they promote. Survivors get a mention, but its never really the selling point.
DBD reddit, back in the day was all about poking fun at survivors and giving you the impression that every second game is SWF and heavily biased against killers. Which was a lie. OP SWF games are maybe one in 30 games with most swf games being friends who are just wanting to have fun and usually end up wiping. But there was no push back, the killer echo room there would down vote anything survivor sided.
That coupled with the points I mentioned previously meant that a lot of survivor mains left the game. Which is kind of obvious, I mean you understand the devs unit of metric sure, but you just watch nerf, after nerf, after nerf as it all gets taken away. Why would you stay for that? Its kind of miserable.
What has this created? In short. Entitlement. Killer mains know if they whine, they get what they want.
THIS is the environment the devs have created and what you see on the forums.
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@Ghostwithaface said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1172775#Comment_1172775
You talk about a killer echo chamber but you also have no proof it was due to them, the dc punishment happen. Since survivor dcing doesn't just effect the killer you know. It effects the rest of the survivors, since they are now down a man. One less person to body block, do gens or run the killer around.
The net result?
Killers get a hook and more points, then watch as the survivor suicides/afk.
The net result of that decision is something better for killers and still the same crap for the survivors that are a man down.
If you think that BENEFITS survivors, then you're just arguing about a different dog with different fleas because it does nothing for them.
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@Dead_by_David17 said:
I come on these forums unsurprised at what I see all the time. I swear that large majority of all posts are all the same thing: killers whining about SWF, gen speeds, survivor meta perks, etc. Also claims that the devs are survivor sided and that they don't care about the killer player base.
So, I figured I'd try to compile my evidence against such claims.
1. The pallet vacuum removal
2. The Exhaustion nerf
3. The DS Rework/Nerf
4. The Mettle of Man nerf, probably the most hard hitting nerf to the survivor meta in the game, ever.
5. The Balanced Landing nerf
6. The mere existence of the Spirit
7. The mere existence of Iridescent heads and how they still havent been nerfed in years.
8. The mere existence of literally wall hack add-ons such as Myer's Mirrors.
9. The nerfs to Medkits, toolboxes, and insta heals. Admittedly yes, instas were OP and toolboxes played a large part in gen rushing. But now, both are worthless.
10. The mere existence of the endgame collapse.
11. The mere existence of second chance perks like NOED.
12. The fact that bugs/glitches/exploits that benefit killers (i.e. Legion walking backwards after a survivor while their Deep Wound ticked down) don't get patched for months while ones that benefit survivors (i.e. when Wake Up buffed ALL speeds) get patched in a day.
13. The fact that the match runs off the killers connection. If there is even a SLIGHT drop in connection quality, the survivors feel it. I literally faced a Legion playing on a Wifi Hotspot some time ago. The worst lag I ever experienced. He said he didn't lag at all.
14. The fact that killers can get away scott free with holding the game hostage because they're scared of getting Decisive Striked/want their 4k/etc.
15. The double standard regarding DCing. Why is okay for a killer to DC from the map they don't like, and yet it's frowned upon when survivors DC bc, say, they don't want to face a particular killer?
16. The fact that camping and tunneling is considered strategic and yet, for example, jumping into a locker to force your DS isnt.
Don't let the killer echo room get you down, this place hasn't had perspective for awhile.
Least its better than the DBD reddit where people would downvote good points and upvote 'poor killer' posts Ad nauseam with no insight to offer.
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Annnnnnnnnnnnnnd the killer echo room commences.
OP states facts, queue anecdotal subject talking points for the killer player base.
Survivors have been nerfed MORE than killers have since release.
Even if you want to whine over the details.
It's a statement of fact.
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Survivor's have been reskins for the longest time. Anyone whose purchasing dlc and thinking something else is deluding themselves.
Even if your interested in a survivor perk, Shrine's has got you covered. You might not be patient to wait however, so you'd buy the dlc, but that's expected on any 'express' service.
Every new dlc centers around a new killer.
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What's the criteria for that 30% rate being down?
My first thought is that its a type of misnomer, because people can't d/c if they are time penalised. Basically the people who d/c are playing less.
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@Seltas0208 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1172530#Comment_1172530
Do you ever take a moment to think "hey. I've got no valid point to make so ill just try to insult this person who's opinion I don't agree with" before commenting? Or do you just talk trash about everyone who thinks that this game is unbalanced event slightly in the survivors favour?
I do understand why people dc. But if you give them an incentive to stay in the match instead of dcing or suiciding on hook early it's likely to at least have some impact on people quitting early.
It's the killer echo room on this forum, guys like him are a dime a dozen here unfortunately.
Really appreciate your post because these types of discussions were had by a number of people before the d/c penalty was even enabled. People were talking then that the devs should focus on WHY people d/c rather than straight punishing people for it.
I suspect they either didn't care or knew it was going to be complicated.
Remembering of course too that killers have recently had to face a number off nerfs due to their 70%+ kill rate and not being used to hard nerfs, killers have nerd raged hard the last few months. Just look at Tru (streamer) in action, despite his continual 4k's every game.
Anyway I suspect they introduced d/c penalty to appease killers, rather than looking at solutions to keep everyone interested in staying in the game.
It really has switched from d/c penalties to suicide/afk, the devs solved nothing.
GJ Devs -.-
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@oxygen said:
It's annoying for everyone involved but it's the "lesser evil". Gives killer the hook, any stacks gained from the hook like BBQ or PGTW, and can't instantly open the hatch like a DC can, and for survivors I guess it takes a little bit more of the killer's time + takes a hook out of the game (not a very good deal, but still)
As long as the struggle phase exists you can't really punish people for not struggling, as it's possible it wasn't on purpose. And I don't only mean new players that don't know to press spacebar, even small connection hiccups that don't get in the way of playing the game can kill someone in struggle phase on the hook.
The 'lesser evil'.
Might aswell just say 'hi, I have no imagination into solving the reasons why people d/c'
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@ReallyBigShoe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/121419/freddy-nerf-when
Him and Ghostface will be nerfed soon. They are overperforming and not fun for survivors to go against because they can't adapt.
Meanwhile, killers need to adapt to ruins change, and aren't allowed to complain.
#logic
It's almost like you haven't played since release, not seen the adaption that survivors have made, and not seen the trajectory of the game.
It's almost like your part of the bubble, that is this forum, and the echo room that killers have created.
I'll leave this here:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/106566/stats-november-2019
I know you'll find a way to splutter past it, but do not the 70% kills that killers have.
But I guess you want it even easier?
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Why is it always 'survivor mains' that make these sort of posts.
Back in the day they'd claim they played 'both sides equally' guess they had to up their game.
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@snowflake102 said:
Yesterday I was playing as the shape on the new map, and these survivors were not expecting me to come up the stairs and I grabbed one off the gen as the other one ran away:) I hooked her then I got to tier 3 pretty quickly as the other one came out from a locker above me to rescue her even though I was still in the area since I knew there was one near by hiding some were. So I ended up hooking him in the basement as I was walking away to head to a gen I just turned around to see if I see anyone nearby the basement and i thought I saw some one there so I went back in the basement no one was there, so as I was heading out that same one that I grabbed off the gen ran right in front of me lol so she got her 2nd hook. Then the other survivors came to the rescue managed to rescue the guy but the other one died before they could get to her lol as I was heading back to the basement I did not know we're they were at the time. But then one of em ran in front of me again lol this one was on first hook:) and I got all 4 survivors and they were high ranks lol. They made so many mistakes :D
Then post game they blamed me for camping basement and tunneling them lol I was way away from the basement I just decided to head back there because I thought I saw a player there . And thats when that survivor ran right in front of me lol.
So I told them you guys made so many mistakes and you tell me that I am camping even though I was far from the basement :) did you not hear the heart beat?
I was laughing so hard :D
Sounds like a boring game.
'Killer 4k's, comes to forum to chest thump'
You sound like your trying to convince yourself of something.
gg.
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@Seanzu said:
I like these bushes, killers hate looping, what does a survivor do besides loop if a killer comes? They hide... now killers complain about hiding.
This statement needs its own thread.
I thought killers were supposed to be tough. I guess their allergies kick in if they get to close to a bush.
Poor killers :(
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@nerdguy5 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/135571/killers-job-is-to-stop-survivors-from-playing
I’ve seen TWICE as many Killer complaints and almost no survivor complaints but ok 💁♂️ but here is one for you! STOP 🤭 CAMPING!!!!!
Underrated comment.
This forum has a heavy killer bias.
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@Raven9 said:
Killing himself on the hook instead of DC, unaware changes, unfair changes,waiting for ds time, heavy tunneling, ds mori doesn't save lives...I don't want to say more. I don't even want to give feedback anymore. Just a question to old dbd players again...how do you find this damn game?
Killer has gotten easier since release, survivor has gotten harder.
The collective killer nerd rage always QQ for that statement but every time I post EVERYTHING that shows them as such. The spluttering about stats not being facts all the while providing anecdotal subjective 'counter' points.
Amuses me to no end.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Honestly please no.
The Xenomorph is meant to be an unstoppable, terrifying, killing machine.
The last thing we need is that legacy ruined by survivors t-bagging it at the exit gates.
You didn't watch the AvP franchise?
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@LordEmrich said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/484/INTZ5YLFC32C.png
2 d/cs in like the first 2 minutes. First person I start a chase with and before I even hit them once they d/c. 2nd person slowly gets into a locker in my LOS as I'm about to do my Static Blast so I grab them out of the locker and instant d/c. Completely screwed their team. The two that stayed got one gen done and that was all she wrote.
If I was a friendly Killer I would've let them do all the gens but I'm not so 🤷🏾♂️. The moral is don't screw your team over just cause you get a Killer you don't wanna play against.
Truly, your insight into the issue is staggering.
The 2 d/c's were the 2 smartest players that game it sounds.
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Dunno why they bothered with the overhaul. He's just as annoying now as he was previously to play against.
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@indieeden7 said:
They might have disabled them because a lot of people have been affected by the "rank update error" bug which kicks players from matches and still gives them a penalty.
That's been an issue for sometime now, and it comes under the points many raised before D/C penalities were even implemented. I doubt its the reason, but if it is, I'm getting visions of a merry go round.
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@Mikeasaurus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1152796#Comment_1152796
It's only natural to feel that way. If a teammate decides to DC while there are still 5 Gens, you may as well call that game and match. 1 Survivor down is a huge boon to any killer. It always annoys me when people DC or suicide hook because it just screws the entire team up and what could have been a good match turns into a complete mess.
The conditional being 'could'.
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@Fibijean said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1153653#Comment_1153653
It's possible, but it's strange that they wouldn't have announced it if that's the case.
Maybe its just supposed to be short term, or maybe they dont want to return to survivors managing sweaty killers the old fashioned way.
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@johnmwarner said:
This isn’t meant to argue whether DC penalties are right, or to ask for penalties for first hook death because that isn’t coming anytime soon. But for killers if you are just DONE with a game what do you do?
Hide in a corner, hoping they just finish and leave? Myself I just stand by the door and the instant the last gen pops I open the door, then I have two minutes max left.
The scummier alternative I have seen is if they catch one person late and they know the game is over they just face camp.
I go into the basement and 'guard' the chest.
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Damn killers got closed down in this thread.
GG.
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@Seanzu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1135170#Comment_1135170
Again, killers will always move the goal post, first they wanted it to be separated into ranks, they did that, then they wanted DCs to be excluded, they did that, now we're using a random BHVR comment from the Japan BHVR employee who lives in Japan who apparently the only person with this information.
The stats were if I recall taken over the course of three months, before we had all these lobby issues and lobbies were consistent, it's fine though, killers will never be happy.
This statement needs its own thread <3
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@xEa said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1135159#Comment_1135159
True, we dont have all the information, but saying they are flawed is just wrong.
Keep in mind, that red rank is 80% killrate, and for sure it takes into consideration that they were also playing against purple. But there is the overall picture, and we could assume so much here.
The only truth is: On average it is WAY above 50% killrate. Killers run into lower rank survivors, survivors ran into lower rank killers. What does it matter? On average, you know, the whole players pool, its ~70%. Blame the matchmaking, but the truth is, it goes both ways. Again sometimes, the killer plays vs lower survivors, and sometimes the survivors are playing vs lower ranked killers. It just evens it out on the long run.
He won't listen to you, in his mind you're wrong and humans will work harder to maintain a lie then to reveal a truth if it goes against their belief system.
Hence why when you post stats to prove your point, he'll twist it and say its not facts. Then offer anecdotal subjective points to try and counter you, which is a joke. When someone can't even move beyond that simple premise, you know the conversation will go nowhere.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1135151#Comment_1135151
What do you mean that I'm that kind of guy?
You mean the kind of guy who thinks that we should not ignore the situation where many survivors who by the way, many had admitted to trying to skew statistics to get killers nerfed -- should be taken into consideration when it comes to the legitimacy and accuracy of statistics?
Y'know, the guy who's saying "the stats are not accurate and the devs don't say so"?
You're the one who keeps trying to argue with me that these statistics are gospel. So you tell me.
Either the stats are factual and accurate as you initially claimed to be, or they aren't. They cannot be both. Make a decision.
You complain about people posting stats to prove a point then proceed to offer anecdotal subjective points as some kind of counter. ROFL. Yes, you are that kind of guy........
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1135086#Comment_1135086
THEY ARE NOT FACTS. THE DEVS HAVE ALREADY SAID THAT THOSE STATISTICS DO NOT TELL THE FULL STORY AND ARE FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND SHOULD NOT BE USED TO DISCUSS GAME BALANCE.
And if you want to argue that they are totally factual, well, let us not forget the whole "80% survival rate" rate fiasco.
Complains about posting stats to prove points, proceeds to post old stats to prove point -.-
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@Vetrathene said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1110466#Comment_1110466
NOED is not a high tier perk, its a perk that may not come into play, either because the game ended before EGC, or because all of the bones where broken, or because the gens popped and doors opened before the killer could get to any of them. The killer experience is better...in some ways, and worse in others. Infinites are gone, but when they where removed pallet vacuum got buffed and hit boxes for survivors where made smaller, creating looping. It was finally gone after a very long time, but looping never went away; which is simply an exploit. Killer buffs come much slower then survivor buffs, and vice verse for nerfs. Killers will get nerfed after 'being looked at' for a few weeks to a month. Survivor advantages will be 'looked at' for multiple months and then nerfed...while getting a buff to compensate. Or survivor buffs will be presented as supposed nerfs. While killers get a few quality of life changes to try to make it seem like the devs aren't biased. Balance is based on 'fun', but usually seems to be focused on new survivor 'fun.
OOF. You better message this guy
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@Talmeer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1118810#Comment_1118810
After my experiences are infintes not gone. I mean, maybe I am wrong here.
I have started to play dbd shortly after the Legion got released because I wanted to play them, because I have found the idea of a stabbing killer appealing.
So, I have never seen something from before that time.
But if I think on the map (my name memories are terrible), with this huge fabric in the middle and the window on the right side after the entrance in the south of it, then it feels for me as would infinites still exist (as example, there are also other similar parts in other maps).*
Thats not a rant from me to that topic, just my thoughts about it.
Edit: *You can baiscly give up to hunt a survivor if he jumps through this window, if you are not a Nurse, or if he is not the last survivor living.
What you have now is pseudo-infinites. Basically a whole bunch of prerequisites have to be in place before it becomes an 'infinite' but even then I'd struggle to call it an infinite.
At release you had something COMPLETELY different. If a survivor got to an infinite it would be impossible to catch them unless you could effectively mind game them. This was due to no bloodlust, no entity blocker and more open windows, you didn't have the RNG of some windows being closed.
At release, as a killer, if a survivor went to an infinite you could do one of 2 things, leave them and focus on the rest of the map or force other survivors into the infinite creating a traffic jam. Making it easier to hit them.
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@underlord99 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1118862#Comment_1118862
when did I say "cause I say so" all i said was that the devs have said not to use those stats and that they are flawed severely in several ways. i dont understand how you can base an opinion on flawed info. that's like sending money to a Nigerian prince. you know it's fake yet you still fall for it .
LOL
Now your reaching, your anecdotal subjective opinion, carries more weight than an opinion based off stats is what you seem to be saying. You've made 5 posts now where you say the same thing, just in a different way.
If its not emotive then let it go. Because an argument based off stats carries more weight than an opinion based on feels.
You can say 'but its flawed' till you blue in the face, its not going to change the fact the stats are there and subject to interpretation.
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@underlord99 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1118854#Comment_1118854
me telling you that the Devs (the people in charge of this game )have said not to base your opinion on these stats and that they are flawed is not me basing my opinion on emotion.
You keep saying the same thing. If you truly believed that you would say your piece and move on. Otherwise what are you arguing beyond that the stats are irrelevant.
If you started a conversation about how its nuanced, your stance would make sense.
You just keep posting 'nah'.
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@underlord99 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1118699#Comment_1118699
by your logic trapper is stronger than huntress since his "kill rate " is higher.
Sure, based off the stats alone.
But its better to start with the stats and move from there rather than your 'cause I say so'.
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@underlord99 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1118699#Comment_1118699
and your evidence was flawed. which is what I've been trying to say. it doesnt matter that you have "evidence" the devs have stated that you shouldnt base your opinion solely on these stats . and yet here you are . basing your opinion on these stats .
While you keep offering your anecdotal subjective opinion, which is what I've been trying to say. it doesnt matter that you have "your opinion" the smart people have stated that you shouldn't base your opinion solely on your feelings . and yet here you are . basing your opinion on your feelings .
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@Tipper117 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1110466#Comment_1110466
The worst part about comments like this is that you completely ignore that there have been nerfs to killers/buffs to survivors in the past as well. You make it sound like it's been completely one sided since the start, and it hasn't. And some of the things you mention HAD to be done for the health of the game, such as the end game collapse. The collapse wasn't added to benefit killers or nerf survivors. It was added to keep the game from being held hostage by players who got off on trolling and bullying others. And frankly, it's been beautiful.
Anyways, like i said. The devs have been doing the best they can with balancing am asymetrical game that gets new, game altering mechanics added to it every few months. Not only that, but the skill ceiling in this game continues to climb as both killers and survivors get ridiculously good at this game. Far beyond what the devs probably could've imagined. Balance in an environment like that is really hard to maintain.
It's perfectly fine to disagree with their choices. But ignoring one side of the story and complaining that one side has been the sole victim, well it just doesn't do much for your credibility.
I actually agree with most of what you said.
My post wasn't a comprehensive list of ALL things, BUT as far as the trajectory of the game is concerned it has absolutely been: killer buff, survivor nerf.
Getting back to my original post the issue is that swf and the devs thinking survivors would play 'sneaky sneak' at release is what created the nerf train, due to their 2 escape, 2 survive metric. The problem recently is that tribalistic killers haven't had to deal with any major push back, so they've lost their collective mind being unable to deal with it. But this is the devs failing to manage their community, the killer response is entirely predictable. The devs created an expectation over time, once that expectation changed, we see an innate human response.
Hence my entitlement post.
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@Polychrome_Baku said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1110466#Comment_1110466
Having played as a 50/50 since release myself, I get what you're saying. You're not wrong. But I also feel like you're understating how powerful survivors were (and still are). I remember 8 second self cares, I remember pallet vacuums, I remember double window shack, I remember old DS, I remember how fast gens used to be, I remember 90 degree fast vaults, I remember old BNP, and I remember everything else that came during the dark ages. The only good thing about those days was that nobody knew how to loop yet. Survivors used to be pretty much impossible to catch, and now they're not, but to this day they STILL control the momentum of the game and won't ever admit it. A survivor has safe tiles all over every map besides the Hawkins Lab, and can legit force a killer to drop chase since everything a killer does is on a timer. Yeah, survivor has gotten harder in some ways. You can't literally cheese the killer for 5 gens without a little bit of effort, instead of every chase having a foregone conclusion like they used to. What a tragedy. I'm not even going to touch on that 70% (Freddy only) kill rate you cited, because those stats are problematic. And I'd be saying that if the kill rate was halved. Any statistician will tell you that stats without context are useless. FULL STOP.
Anyways. You know what bothers me the most? People being unwilling to see that most complaints from the killer side comes from how the game feels. And game feel is just as important as balance is, because that more often than not dictates whether people will stay. For instance, the nurse is the strongest killer in the game. But she feels like clunky ass to play, so guess what? Nobody plays her. Part of it comes from her difficulty, but those changes didn't do her pick rate any favors either. Acting like it had no effect is ignorant. Right now, the killer side of the game is going down a path of clunky nonsense with overly oppressive cooldowns and power bars all in the name of survivor fun. Since for the last year and a half or so, killer fun has taken a back seat to that of survivors'. With every patch survivors get more tools, even more information, and more ways to expedite their objectives. While killer perks always come with a ten page requirement list before they can be activated (like Dead Man's Switch) and every "new" killer power is a remix of an old one with extra steps. I'm not saying survivors haven't got nerfed, since I doubt the devs are "sided" by any means. But the changes to stuff like healing, insta heals or BNP is nothing compared to Ruin, the Legion debacle, and what I'm sure is coming for every other strong killer perk / ability in the near future. It's like they use a sledgehammer for killer changes but every survivor change ends with an item or perk that's still eminently usable.
Lastly, if the devs want to shoot for a "2 escape/2 death" balance then they need to actually reward killers for that scenario. Especially considering that survivors get rewarded even when they die, but once you're out of the baby ranks a 2k is treated like a loss.
I remember 8 second self cares, I remember pallet vacuums, I remember double window shack, I remember old DS, I remember how fast gens used to be, I remember 90 degree fast vaults, I remember old BNP, and I remember everything else that came during the dark ages.
Right, that ties in with all the nerfs I mentioned.
Survivors used to be pretty much impossible to catch, and now they're not, but to this day they STILL control the momentum of the game and won't ever admit it.
And yet killers, myself included still made rank 1 back in the day. It was hard but even back then there were techniques to manage the sabo jakes and infinite runners. If a killer can provide enough map pressure, they control the momentum of the game, its not all or nothing, its just nuanced. If they can't or the survivor abilities are greater, they control the flow. It comes down to killer ability, survivors ability, map, perks, luck etc etc that's a better conversation to have as far as 'momentum of the game' is concerned.
I'm not even going to touch on that 70% (Freddy only) kill rate you cited, because those stats are problematic.
That's at all ranks, if you look at red ranks, the kill rate for all killers is around 70% which is better to focus on because that's your long term 'end game' player base and according to the devs, their focus point. At lower ranks you're having conversations about casual players and ease of access. You can say the data is problematic, but its better than half the 'because I say so' posts on this forum which are tied into a 'group think' mentality.
People being unwilling to see that most complaints from the killer side comes from how the game feels.
But the changes to stuff like healing, insta heals or BNP is nothing compared to Ruin
You kind of lost me here. You want to sight the all ranks data while saying survivors control the momentum of the game but then complain about ruin change? New survivors couldn't manage skill checks, let alone understanding 'hex' and 'cleanse' which resulted in 4k after 4k.
This is why its better to focus on 'problematic' data and move from there, rather than straight from your feels.
Nurse was a broken killer to begin with, breaking all the survivors survive mechanics and was introduced to counter infinites (which are now gone). Nurse should never have been released, its current state is fine.
Yeah, survivor has gotten harder in some ways.
The point is that swf and the devs thinking survivors would play 'sneaky sneak' at release is what created the nerf train, due to their 2 escape, 2 survive metric. The problem recently is that tribalistic killers haven't had to deal with any major push back, so they've lost their collective mind being unable to deal with it. But this is the devs failing to manage their community, the killer response is entirely predictable. The devs created an expectation over time, once that expectation changed, we see an innate human response.
Lastly, if the devs want to shoot for a "2 escape/2 death" balance then they need to actually reward killers for that scenario. Especially considering that survivors get rewarded even when they die, but once you're out of the baby ranks a 2k is treated like a loss.
100% agree. They've changed this a little over time but the focus on a 4k rather than a 'good game' for everyone is part of the reason this community is so toxic.
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@underlord99 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1117153#Comment_1117153
How ? the stats are flawed and they have stated this. which is why they dont make changes solely on kill rates.
Try again.
You're just using different words to make the same point, that I already countered. I still provided more evidence than you did.
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@Weederick said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1117819#Comment_1117819
Dont be surprised that nobody takes you seriously. Vets share the same opinion for the most part for good reason.
OK so, just be to clear, because literally this chain with you is turning into clown world.
The devs made that statement, regarding red ranks. Your 'nah ah' doesn't change that, so unless you got something more for me, I think our moment is over.
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@Weederick said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1117801#Comment_1117801
Messenger of which game? Nobody who plays dbd would say that the game is balanced around red ranks. Red ranks is where the problems are so obvious, that everyone asks for killer buffs up there, even survivor mains. The red ranks are the forgotten ranks if anything
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You better speak to the devs, thanks for playing. Don't let the door.......
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@Weederick said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1117782#Comment_1117782
"This game is balanced around red ranks"
🤡
We do live in clown world times ;)
Don't shoot the messenger > <
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@Carpemortum said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1117433#Comment_1117433
I love the "ruin is impossible for new players, they're trying to learn how the game works, take pity on them", arguments.
You know why? Because we (older players) have all been there, did it, and learned the ######### game.
I'm sorry if you feel new players need their hands held nowdays, but learning is part of it. It's not hard.
Side note, if these new survivors are struggling to understand bones and do skill checks, how is new ruin any better? They let go for ANY reason (and considering I still see people gen tapping, yes, its happening) they lose progress, and then, omg, have to do bones!
It's the same thing, just holding their hands now.
It's only become super obvious with the great skill checks challenge. SO MANY people are missing skill checks with it, it hurts. It means they STILL dont know how to do greats, because they were either never forced to learn (new ruin) or just refused to and cant (would do bones). People either learn or they dont. It has to do with them, not their new or old status.
But ya know what the new ruin DOES do? Make it stupid ######### easy for decent survivors to steamroll through gens. Plus we all look for bones anyway.
Look, your entitled to your opinion, but your post count ALONE tells me you're more engaged than the average player. You have a few thousand worth of hours in the game no doubt, which is also above the average player.
If you're like me you learnt doing skill checks a long time ago and if you've played since release then you've been there at every step when new mechanics were introduced along the way like 'hex' and 'cleanse' which is now common place.
When Wildstar was released in showcased itself as a leet gamers only game. You know what happened to that game? It's dead. It's dead because it chest thumped so hard that all the potential leet players that started off as newbs said forget it.
This game is balanced around red ranks according to the devs based off their metric system of 2 escape 2 kills. This makes sense because its the games 'end game'.
At lower ranks you have your potential leet players, you have to accommodate them in some way because they keep your game populated and your queue times down. You may have your own way to do that, but from what I saw newbs got absolutely DECIMATED against reasonable killers with hex ruin up, because they just had no capacity to manage what was happening.
I don't really get your argument about new ruin. It's the difference between a passive punishment and the constant 'you did it wrong' in your face of old ruin, every time you missed. Again you can complain its holding hands and maybe they would have learnt, maybe they would have gotten better. But my guess is the devs saw what was happening and knew it needed to change because seeing a game 4k with each survivor having less than 3k BP is ridiculous. I can't imagine newbs sticking around for that and I doubt you want a dead game.
With 70% kill rates at red ranks, those poor killers weren't exactly struggling. There needed to be push back.