FearedbytheGods
FearedbytheGods
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@CornHub said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1113266#Comment_1113266
Where did you get a 70% from I'm looking at the chart they released and only freddy has a 70%. He doesn't represent the killrate of most games. Also alot of threads from killers talk about map sizes vs killers with no map pressure,the upcoming sabo change, and gen times and toolboxes. That isn't being entitled it honest questions
I don't think you're being entitled, your questions are well reasoned and not overtly emotive.
You're looking at ALL ranks, not red ranks. That's why nurse is so low, because its a hard to master killer, despite what people on the forums tell you.
You want to look at red ranks because that's where established players are and the spot where devs focus most of their balance attempts according to them.
Sure, upcoming changes will change things. My comments have been the trajectory of the game since 2016.
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@Mc_Harty said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1117565#Comment_1117565
Misinformation based on what? People not replying to my comment? ######### are you even talking about?
If anything you're the one spreading misinformation around stating killers have a 70% killrate from a chart with no context and how killers have nerd rage for wanting a better game. Seriously, it's embarrassing you fell apart this quick.
And I did clarified it.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1117536#Comment_1117536
If only you actually bothered to read.
omg haha.....
Dude it wasn't even the same guy I was talking too, and you posted that AFTER my original post that got you all flustered.
Thanks man, you gave me a good laugh <3
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@Mc_Harty said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1117400#Comment_1117400
Right because adapting to a skillcheck is too hard am I right?
I'm just taking a page from the survivors and ######### endlessly.
It's like those entitled killers that come into a thread about killer bias just to push their bias. Thus proving the thread. Zing.
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@Mc_Harty said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1117433#Comment_1117433
1) No ######### my comment was a meme.
2) You're ignoring current problems because we had some before. This tells me your dishonest.
3) Killers are not currently at 70% killrate. Not after the changes to ruin. You are delusional if you currently believe that.
4) You survivors, Not you survivors. I was making fun of the OP.
5) You claim I'm tribalistic than have the audacity to post this - 'Thread after thread recently of killers whining about things like 'my poor hex ruin' and 'survivors cant deal' and 'But honestly at this stage and given the constant nerd rage I see from killers, it seems like they want 1 escape 3 kills.' So you are also a hypocrite.
LOL why you so mad?
I was replying to his comment, if he got it wrong then just clarify it. Actually you could have just ignored me and pointed it out to him that he was spreading misinformation ROFL.
If it was just a meme, then let it ride as such. One of the great things of memes is that you laugh at people who screw their faces up at whats being poked fun at. It's almost like you're laughing at yourself with this reply!?
I'm going to stick with my tribalistic statement, because your response is so disproportionate from what you were originally claiming in regards to your meme post, because it really is starting to look like a slight against survivors with this emotional intensity attached to it.
Yes the stats will change, that's why stats get updated. Did you know that DBD was released on 14 June 2016. The stats have changed a lot in that time.
Have fun.
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@Talmeer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1117441#Comment_1117441
You should never say something like "Good, it should never have been introduced to begin with.".
Sry, but every killer and every survivor game mechanic has its "fans" and while we as users can curse the one or other thing, dbd as companie should try to make every group happy.
And no, I am not a nurse main, nor I am a tryhard killer.
In... I bet... 50-60% of my matches I let the survivors go no matter how easy the final kill would be. It is just... If you like to have a healthy community, you need to give everyone something to play with and the best is, if those things are different to each other.
And to say it clear, the nurse is one of those different things.
Fair point, sounds like we should introduce infinites again based off your standards.
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@Talmeer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1117408#Comment_1117408
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/106566/stats-november-2019
Nurse is the worst killer in the game at the moment.
Then comes:
-Demothing (surprise at least for me)
-Clown (no surprise)
-Huntress (she is pretty powerful, but hard to master imo)
-Then Legion (I know Plague is actual down of the Legion, but I think she will be doing better after the ptr patch and so I don't see her anymore there)
That are the 5 worst killers if we look at the statistics.
EDIT: Not sure how to link BrendanLeeT into this post.
Thanks for the link.
But you need a qualifier around that.
Nurse is worst 'overall', but part of that would be due to the hard to master aspect of playing nurse.
At red ranks nurse is still around 65% kill rate, which low compared to other killers but still higher that the 2 kill, 2 survive metric. But honestly at this stage and given the constant nerd rage I see from killers, it seems like they want 1 escape 3 kills.
It's also worth mentioning that, at release, nurse was considered a broken killer, anyone remember 72hrs? Anyway he talked about how nurse broke all the mechanics used by survivors to survive. I suspect nurse was designed to counter infinites that were in the game, REAL infinites too, not the pseudo-infinites we have nowadays. But killers still complained.
So infinites were removed and we were stuck with nurse.
Nurse is an average killer? Good, it should never have been introduced to begin with.
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@McLightning said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1115548#Comment_1115548
I just noticed nobody had the balls to reply to this. Imagine breaking someones bubble THAT hard in one sentence. OOF.
To add to it - survivors now want Hillbilly nerfed because they can't use A and D to dodge his chainsaw. "Oh he's so OP!!"
Didn't notice it before, thanks for pointing it out.
Firstly, the 'you survivors' comment is rather tribalistic, I get that tribalism is an innate human response, but if we are to evolve as human beings we need to be aware of our own short comings xD
The ruin nerf and survivors 'inability to deal' is in short, a cheap shot. It's like those out of context, politically motivated vids that get uploaded that are full of emotional triggers, its designed that way, to get you to respond.
His post is similar; meme worthy burn but doesn't consider the following:
Infinites gone, vaulting/perk/map/pallet nerfs, bloodlust added, end game timer added, hatch close added. All this has made being killer easier and survivor harder since release.
2 escapes, 2 kills is the devs unit of metric. You don’t have to like that but it’s whats given the survivors all their nerfs and all the killers current buffs.
Killers now are up around 70% kills due to the trajectory of the game and the devs metric system, unless you feel their metric system is bad, in which case they can undo all the changes I've just mentioned....
It's only been recently that killers have started getting significant push back from devs, such as the ruin nerf because the state of the game is disconnecting survivors who know a game is going to end in a 4k so why bother for 3k BP.
At lower tiers hex ruin was a trainwreck, survivors there are still trying to learn skill checks, let alone 'ruin checks' and trying to understand 'totem cleansing'. But if you think that 4k after 4k is a good idea to level against new survivors, then I have a bridge to sell you, because those killer smurf accounts were having a field day.
But what do we see? Thread after thread recently of killers whining about things like 'my poor hex ruin' and 'survivors cant deal'. Like I said, if you didn't like the metric, you should have started complaining years ago, not now. Otherwise you're left with cool edgy burns.
People talk about salty survivors a lot in this forum, but ignore the elephant in the room.
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@BrendanLeeT said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1117392#Comment_1117392
Do you agree that the Nurse is the weakest killer in the game because going by statistics she is.
If you don't agree with me then why? You're going by statistics and sticking with them and you don't believe the Nurse is the weakest killer then you are just picking and choosing statistics to try and backup your point.
I'm generally curious because no one ever replies to me when they throw the kill rates of killers out there to back up their point but the moment I ask if the nurse is the weakest kill because statistically is she they don't reply because if they disagree they are admitting the data isn't accurate and lets be honest no one will agree she is the weakest killer.
Last stat info I saw had all killers around the 70% mark, some lower, some higher. I have no doubt that the nurses numbers have dropped since the nerf.
Can you upload the latest stats or provide a link?
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@underlord99 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1117153#Comment_1117153
false. peanits has stated several times not to make opinions on these stats. these stats also count people who bleed out to death and suicide on first hook .
That's........ not really arguing against my point, its making the same point, just from a different angle. You say don't make opinions, I say its more nuanced, ultimately we can only infer based on what evidence we have.
So to be specific, I've provided more than you have.
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@GodDamn_Angela said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1110466#Comment_1110466
I disagree that Killers are getting easier and Survivors are getting harder. But I agree the complaining is getting a bit much. As a Survivor main I basically do whatever I want all game.Basically nothing matters. Playing a Killer is just stressful and gives me anxiety. But I'm weak or whatever. 🤷
" SB now is mediocre at best where as NOED is still a high tier perk."
LMAO! The best exhaustion perk in the game is mediocre? Okay. Sure.
"Killers now are up around 70% kills due to the trajectory of the game and the devs metric system, unless you feel their metric system is bad, in which case they can undo all the changes I've just mentioned...."
Everyone needs to stop with this. Just STOP. You, and so many others (the 42 upvotes on this post is mindblowing) have no idea what the data released showed or proved or what it even means.
The fact this information is constantly brought up as some sort of "proof" that all Killers are strong is pathetic and hilarious. The fact that I see "70%!" all the time when it comes to the data just shows how much people love to spread misinformation around here to perpetuate victimhood of their "side" and keep the "us vs them" narrative alive. Its sickening.
SB is the best exhaustion perk...... lol.
PLEASE provide some kind of quantitative for that statement.
Off the top of my head Lithe is better because you control when it procs, BL is better because you can control when it procs and have a vertical drop benefit.
SB is the poor mans exhaustion perk.
Do you not own dlc?
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@GodDamn_Angela said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1117173#Comment_1117173
I agree. Especially about DBD not being "scary". Its never going to be scary for anyone who has put a decent amount of time into it.
Its funny how you can make decently intelligent, if not slightly obnoxious, posts but harp on about data that you believe proves something about killers while also misrepresent the actual facts that were given to prove your belief in this.
If my account is trite its because of responses like these. You've done, what most others do:
'nah ah, cause I say so'
By all means, argue the merits of the argument at face value, TRY and provide some evidence.
I dare you, go on, give it a shot.
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@Irisora said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1110466#Comment_1110466
The fact that survivor had more infinites back then doesn't mean it become harder at all. ######### playing survivors is easy and i play solo not in swf.
They implemented windows blocking after 3 vaults (which is too much IMO).
You can't make it to that pallet? use DH to give you that boost and reach it to loop the killer for another minute.
You are being tunneled? Let the killer grab you and hit DS to make him chase you for another minute or the whole match if you loop well.
Got hooked at the endgame? no problem get unhooked with BT and get your free escape.
Got injured when there is 1 gen left? no problem get healed and a free sprint burst by your team doing that gen.
The killer left you in the ground while hes chasing another one? Get up with unbreakable and erase all the effort that the killer did to down you.
And i can continue for hours... Just one last thing, the 2 kills 2 escapes in high ranks is a lie.. like the cake in Portal.
It's not a lie, there's just more too it, according to the devs. Which is still better than half the posts here that amount to 'because I say so'.
Also my point was talking about how the devs have created entitlement over time. You mention things like DS without giving it context and its changes over time (which have been alot).
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@DetectiveBingBong said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1115624#Comment_1115624
What a foolish notion. If all it took was whining on our part, DS, DH, BT, UB and so many other perks would be nerfed. And to address that other guy, we don't all want 4ks every game. I just want some fun and a challenge, instead of flashlights, tbags and getting punished for playing the game I love. I'm sick of being told "lol ur trash" by people who the game essentially hand delivers victory. If I hook all four and one gets away because deliverance, that person shouldn't think "haha outplayed git gud" they should think "phew, barely got out of that one. Good game." I think the real issue is that you survivors have lost your fear and the horror aspect has been lost.
Humans are naturally very tribalistic, so your killers vs. survivors response is not surprising.
My point was more arguing the psychology of how the devs have created the entitlement within the community then the rudimentary nature of what you're arguing.
On that note, humans are largely robust creatures when they have the capacity to 'prepare' themselves for things. It's the things that blind side people on some idle Tuesday, that creates the most stress for people. So your point about survivors not being 'scared' is inevitable in a game where you have a level of prediction. It's just more of a human thing than a survivor thing.
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@underlord99 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1115624#Comment_1115624
devs have already stated not to use those stats. your argument is invalid.
'Don't use'
You're wrong, they use them, they've just explained that there's more layers to this then they're prepared to share with us.
My point of view is still better than the no evidence 'I say so' people.
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Killer is easier now than it was at release. Killers nowadays are so soft.
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@Micheal_Myers said:
Uh... you sure about that..? In pretty sure.. the ruin nerf is all survivors.. and survivors now want NOED gone... so....
Did you see the games at low ranks with ruin up. Those survivors couldn't managed skill checks let alone 'ruin checks' it was a train wreck and had to change.
NOED yea.... survivor been talking about that one since release... Im sure that devs are about to drop the hammer on that one.... not -.-
Compare that to Sprint Burst which has been around the same length of time and received nerf after nerf . At release sprint burst would recharge while running and there was no such thing as 'exhaustion'.
How long have you been playing this game?
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@ApeOfMazor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1115624#Comment_1115624
A lot of survivors left the game? But killer queues are near instant because there are so many survivors waiting to play.
When it was peer to peer there were websites that tracked lobbies.
You'd consistently see 2-3 survivor to every killer. Never the inverse. However, veteran killers got preferential treatment, was what I observed at least in queues.
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@thehotdogman93 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1115557#Comment_1115557
You're right, and I think it's a major design flaw with this game. If a killer doesn't get a 4K, he may see it as a loss, which is what I feel all the time. But a 4K game is supposed to be perfect outcome, there's no middle ground that a killer will be happy with otherwise. Because the developers are trying to balance the game where killers are getting 2k per match, naturally killer mains will be upset over the difficulty to get 4Ks. It's an issue that's common with most asymmetric games.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1115705#Comment_1115705
Yo. We gotta get a 4k at least within 10 matches. After that, 90% of people wouldn't want to play killer. It's more like we desire 4Ks for half our games AT LEAST, any killer after that would start sweating every match.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1115624#Comment_1115624
The things that you reference "as it all gets taken away" were things back in day that survivors could do to really make the game unplayable for killer, like body blocking him in a corner and healing every 2 seconds. I didn't play DBD back in day but nerfs for game breaking features like that seem justifiable. To say that's its miserable now seems like you're suffering from the loss of power to abuse features like this and bully the killer on your whilm.
The 70% kill rate is another thing. We know the devs are aiming for that number to be 50%, which I'm sure the devs will try to gravitate towards with killer nerfs / survivor buffs here pretty soon. The point is it that BHVR has always tried to balance the game, even if it has taken them years to do so.
Your conflating my point.
I realise its easier to just think of it as 'salty survivor' but your wrong.
You had your 'standard' that was messed up by the introduction of swf at release, that the devs have been compensating for ever since (among other things I mentioned).
As I said, what you saw, from a rudimentary perspective is survivor nerfs, killer buffs. Go back and read what I said I didn't argue the wrong or right of balance. Im talking about how the devs mismanaged the community and have created a bias that we see on the forums.
Therefore addressing the OP post.
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@Callmehandsome said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1115624#Comment_1115624
I played back in 2016 and i remember i waited 45 mins in swf lobby to find a game. There was serious lack of killers. Most of the time we saboed all the hooks and killer couldn't do much of anything if we stayed away from the basement. You may call it balanced but even most survivor mains admit it was quite broken time
I didn't say it was balanced then.
Also the devs placed swf on the low priority list. As a solo q survivor I'd get games relatively quickly, but wait ages in swf.
The issue wasn't lack of killers.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1115855#Comment_1115855
As far as me being a hindrence is showcasing nurse's power vs nurse's stats...youd be 100% correct. I have a hard time personally doing anything with the character due to her high skill floor (a high amount of skill needed to do the bare minimum). Theres plenty of people like me that drag her stats down because we cant land a single hit all game. I'm using this as 1 example as why the stats that include outliers (in this case I would be a negative outlier) can't be taken at face value.
Putting nurse off to the side for a moment, I know other killers can be played VERY well as long as you have certain perks or addons. Using PWYF on Bubba for example is a completely difference experience than if someone had Bubba without the perk. Bubba's addons do next to nothing to help him with his glaring flaws, but since PWYF exists... it can be used as a reason to say the character is fine instead of a perk can be used to prop him up. The devs have already said they wanted to look at Bubba, or at least his addons...so theres hope there.
That's fine, idc if they rework bubba.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1115576#Comment_1115576
I get that since those are the only stats available, your trying to make use of what you have, but... that might be more hindrance than help. Using the Nurse as an example of this, we know that at least for OLD Nurse, those stats dont reflect her power. Those stats are the result of using an average of players who have alot of Nurse experience and can do REALLY well with her, with players that are new with Nurse having trouble landing a single hit all game (like me, lol). It would be similar to if your trying to do a poll of golf scores, but include 5 year olds on a put put golf course with Tiger Wood's scores. The results will be skewed. This is what we call outliers and its always good to try to separate out the outliers to get a more accurate average (says my 4th grade math teacher, lol).
With many of our other killers, we end up with addons that heavily skew the results because the results gained by using said addons dont properly reflect the power of the character. The difference between my games of Clown using Red Head's pinky finger versus using more tame things like reload speed addons is pretty vast. While I understand that these addons are infact part of the game, it can give a very false sense of where the character is overall. In the case of Clown, the instadown addon solves a problem Clown has, being players using the speedboost from the first hit to get to supersafe locations (ironworks window, Asylum main build, ect.). Instadown=no speed boost. If the pinkyfinger Clown catches you out of position, youll pay for it.
Again I don't disagree with you, but by that logic you could apply it to yourself, perhaps you're the 'hindrance' here?
You mention nurse:
He doesn't play DBD anymore but back in the day 72hrs was a great streamer/survivor who didn't play toxic and moved onto killer that he also played exceptionally well, nurse included. He tried to give healthy perspective on the game. Compare that to the Trutalent/Hexy's who whinge and complain when they don't get a 4k.
Nurse was released when there were still infinites in the game, REAL infinites too, not the pseudo infinites we have now that bad killers hold onto.
It was never officially announced as such but it seemed fair to say that nurse was released to hard counter infinites. Which it did. People like Tru enjoyed nurse, mainly because it made 4k's easier for him. 72hrs believed that nurse was a mistake. That it fundamentally broke the survivor game and didn't do what the devs wanted which was to stop people complaining about infinites.
I agree with 72hrs, nurse should never have been released. But Tru and others liked nurse and have threatened to leave the game because of nerfs etc etc. What you seem to arguing is finding a sweet spot to keep everyone happy with nurse. I'm telling you I don't care. Nurse broke the survive mechanics and should die in a hole, if it stays a 2nd rate killer, all the better for it. It should never have been released to begin with.
You might think that stance is a hindrance, but I think the hindrance here is the bias' that have played out since launch. Like the release of a broken killer.
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@Endstille said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1110466#Comment_1110466
2 kills 2 escape is not a unit of metric, what nonsense do you write there? It is their balance goal and not a unit of metric.
No not killers it is one killer that is at the 70% and that is about it, stop acting like killers are the skins as are survivors. The lowest is sitting at 43%.
The game is being balanced around people who are unable to hit great skillchecks, that is how easy the game is as survivor. The meme of survivor just having to hold m1 and win became a sad reality, because of horrible survivor mains like you who make skilled survivors like me facepalm.
Please show me another utube vid that you subsequently disagree with yourself over <3
Its is a unit of metric, even if you don't like it.
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@DVD420 said:
The devs don't care about Killers. They very rarely balance in killers' favour and they actively avoid confronting issues with killer gameplay.
Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
I posted this elsewhere, but you should read it.
Since PC release, killer has been buffed, survivor nerfed. This is important to understand and through examples you’ll see why that has happened. It shows you why the game has had the trajectory it has and why we are now in our current quagmire.
It all started with the introduction of swf and the 2 escapes, 2 kills devs unit of metric. You don’t have to like the metric but it’s whats given the survivors all their nerfs and all the killers current buffs.
The devs failed to understand that people would want to play with friends in an online game at release (serious), what we got was ‘lobby wars’. Where survivors would join different lobbies looking for their friends and leave if they couldn’t find them. It was horrible trying to find games. Hence why we got swf, that completely unbalanced the game by creating coordinated survivors that could communicate. The devs have been nerfing survivor ever since and completely crippled solo survivor play.
Killers now are up around 70% kills due to the trajectory of the game and the devs metric system, unless you feel their metric system is bad, in which case they can undo all the changes I've just mentioned....
It also important to mention marketing and advertising. There’s nothing special about survivors, they are just reskins with some new perks that all play the same. THATS IT. EACH killer has its own unique play style and as you see from their advertising, its always new killers they promote. Survivors get a mention, but its never really the selling point.
DBD reddit, back in the day was all about poking fun at survivors and giving you the impression that every second game is SWF and heavily biased against killers. Which was a lie. OP SWF games are maybe one in 30 games with most swf games being friends who are just wanting to have fun and usually end up wiping. But there was no push back, the killer echo room there would down vote anything survivor sided.
That coupled with the points I mentioned previously meant that a lot of survivor mains left the game. Which is kind of obvious, I mean you understand the devs unit of metric sure, but you just watch nerf, after nerf, after nerf as it all gets taken away. Why would you stay for that? Its kind of miserable.
What has this created? In short. Entitlement. Killer mains know if they whine, they get what they want.
THIS is the environment the devs have created and what you see on the forums.
You have no perspective, and are part of the group think mentality. I understand why it is that you think your right, but as I explained, you're not.
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@senki527 said:
what i noticed is, that almost only killer mains are lurking around in this forum. calling for survivor nerfs all the time. they dont need nerfs! i see plenty of killers getting 4k, cause they have skill. just adapt and l2p.
and don't write comments starting with "i'm a survivor main...." cause i know you are not a survivor main.
I love those 'I play both sides equally' players, like you said it gives them pause to launch into 'the problem with survivor is....'
Quick history lesson :3
Since release, killer has been buffed, survivor nerfed. This is important to understand and through examples you’ll see why that has happened. It shows you why the game has had the trajectory it has and why we are now in our current quagmire, as you said the biased forums.
It all started at release with the introduction of swf and the 2 escapes, 2 kills devs unit of metric. You don’t have to like the metric but it’s whats given the survivors all their nerfs and all the killers current buffs.
The devs failed to understand that people would want to play with friends in an online game (serious), what we got was ‘lobby wars’. Where survivors would join different lobbies looking for their friends and leave if they couldn’t find them. It was horrible trying to find games. Hence why we got swf, that completely unbalanced the game by creating coordinated survivors that could communicate. The devs have been nerfing survivor ever since and completely crippled solo survivor play.
It also important to mention marketing and advertising. There’s nothing special about survivors, they are just reskins with some new perks that all play the same. THATS IT. EACH killer has its own unique play style and as you see from their advertising, its always new killers they promote. Survivors get a mention, but its never really the selling point.
DBD reddit, back in the day was all about poking fun at survivors and giving you the impression that every second game is SWF and heavily biased against killers. Which was a lie. OP SWF games are maybe one in 30 games with most swf games being friends who are just wanting to have fun and usually end up wiping. But there was no push back, the killer echo room there would down vote anything survivor sided.
Killers now are up around 70% kills due to the trajectory of the game and the devs metric system.
That coupled with the points I mentioned previously meant that a lot of survivor mains left the game. Which is kind of obvious, I mean you understand the devs unit of metric, sure, but you just watch nerf, after nerf, after nerf as it all gets taken away. Why would you stay for that?
Its kind of miserable.
What has this created? In short. Entitlement. Killer mains know if they whine, they get what they want.
THIS is the environment the devs have created and what you see on the forums.
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@DrownedFish said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1110466#Comment_1110466
If you need infinites to play survivor, i m sorry for you.
I don't, try again.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1113266#Comment_1113266
Remind me what your point was then if you yourself agree that those stats cant be taken at face value. Not trying to throw dirt on you or anything, I just want to be clear where your coming from. I know those stats showed Nurse to be the weakest killer in the game by far even before her rework, when the entire DBD community knows that at least OLD nurse to be top tier (new nurse, ppl will disagree with that).
Well exactly my points.
See what your saying is something based of your subjective reasoning. Much like mine but its based at least SOMEWHERE in information that we have. I've done my best to provide the evidence to rationalise my point.
What I was doing was paying you a compliment, not necessarily agreeing, while appreciating nuance (which is largely lost on this forum).
I mean lets be honest, unless we get leaks or are a fly on the wall were not going to ever have more information to base our opinions on more than we currently do. But at least from my perspective I've done my best to present an evidence based argument, while watching the majority in this thread offer exactly zip zero nothing.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1110466#Comment_1110466
The stats provided shouldnt really be looked at for balance purposes. That 70% you mention should be taken with a grain of salt, expecially now with DC punishments in place. The amount of ppl who suicide on first hook because they got downed first is going to skew data since it's just setting games up for a 3 v 1. Personally, I feel like it would be nice if swing factors like keys and moris were also factored into these results since they dont give an accurate depiction of a normal game. Many ppl like myself tend to just sit on a stockpile of ebony moris because apart from seeing the cool animation...they kinda kill the fun of the match. Others however like to use em as often as possible...
The reason I mentioned the DC punishments is due to the fact that the devs throw out games where someone DCed when it comes to stats, but with the punishments in place...those ppl are likely to just suicide on hook and have the 3 v 1 match included in the stats where they normally would be excluded.
Right, but its not exactly disproving my points rather its just saying you cant take them at face value and its more nuanced.
On a side note, you're one of the few people that actually managed to reason and argue your point. Which is worth mentioning because its so rare in this place. Most arguments amount to 'nah ah'.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1110466#Comment_1110466
So much of this information is completely out of touch with the game and inaccurate.
Yet you are unable to counter a single point?
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@Archimedes5000 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1113133#Comment_1113133
Wait, so this was the BL nerf? Lol
They could have just made all vault buffs killers have also applicable to the fall stagger lol. Not to mention that Killer has more airbone control.
Exactly, but killers have been whining about exhaustion perks, even before there was such a thing called exhaustion perks (SB at release).
So much so that I encourage people not to use exhaustion perks because the devs have focused so many killer perks and add ons to counter it, that its just not worth relying on.
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@Mandy said:
I think NOED is completely fair as it is, it's easy to remove from the game by getting all the totems and if the killer is camping one person then there's plenty of time to do that.
Well that's one way to maintain the group think mentality. Get people in authority to make absolute points. Thanks for the discussions.
*rolls eyes*
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D/c penalty hasn't stopped people from managing this tactic, it just means they're playing less xD
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Not sure why this is the hill you want to die on.
Personally the d/c penalty was a greater grievance because it was implemented without addressing the underlying issues (understanding the underlying issues?) that lead to people wanting to d/c in the first place.
The decision for breakable walls is along the lines of what I expect from the devs.
Historically the devs have nerfed survivor due to the complete mismanagement of swf at release. However, recently the devs have been nerfing a lot of killer aspects because the metric they've been using (2 escapes, 2 kills) due to kills being up around 70%.
Now look at the collective killer nerd rage surrounding those nerfs. I'm still seeing posts about the nurse nerf, a killer that should never have been introduced in the game to begin with. Long story short killers have never had to deal with any meaning nerfs until recently and they have lost their collective minds as a result.
Couple that killers generally not having to deal with any legitimate push back and suddenly you see the quandary were all in.
So long as the survivor numbers hold up and killers don't have to wait too long, we'll keep seeing changes like this.
I'm more surprised that your surprised.
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@Wylesong said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1110471#Comment_1110471
I love that you said "Killers are FINALLY getting some push back" and I loved how you said something to the other person on the Sabo Changes forum as well. I am seeing many Killer mains or people who claim to play both but favor killer complaining the Devs are Survivor mains and the game is already in survivor favor.
That is a crock of poop because in the past 2 or 3 days I am lucky if 1 of us gets out of the match alive and 2 survivors living gives me reason to celebrate. I got lucky once and all 4 got out but that was pure PURE luck.
If killer mains think they aren't favored our at least equal give survivors a oh crap perk like NOED. lol You really proved a point in that other forum and are very knowledgeable. =) I would like to pick your ear and learn about this more. lol
It's been funny watching the development of this game, purley from a psychological perspective.
It makes you realise terms such as 'group think' mentality.
Its amazing how many people really have no perspective beyond 'OP survivor, poor killer'. That once you start pointing things out and actually ARGUING their points, that the entire narrative breaks down.
It's so bad that I literally have points copy and pasted on file, just so I don't have to type out the EXACT same things over and over again........
Honestly I blame the devs and how they mismanaged things.
They never predicted that people would want to play with friends in an online game at release (serious). So at release 'lobby wars' started, where people would join lobbies, looking for their friends and would leave if they weren't there. It took FOREVER to find games due to this, hence why swf was created and suddenly you had coordinated groups in voice comms that completely destroyed the devs metric '2 kills, 2 survive'.
Since release its been nerf after nerf to survivor with little push back, till recently. Hence why killers in general are 'outraged' because they've literally never had to deal with any major nerfs till now.
If you can join some coordinated swf groups, you'll have a better run, but soloq is rough for survivors, it really is.
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It's worth pointing out that the advertising and trajectory of this game has been killer sided for sometime. Prior to the forums people would post on DBD reddit, and it was a pitiful place to raise anything survivor sided.
The point being that these OP survivors exist in coordinated swf groups, that's it. It's certainly not in solo survivor play. But you cant complain about OP survivors when you admit those points and get owned as a killer.
So you stick to the OP salty survivor narrative and create a group think mentality.
This forum GROSSLY over estimates the OP survivor phenomena.
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@Wylesong said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1110455#Comment_1110455
Exactly and when the ranks reset and I go from high to low ranks and play with other either low rank or 100% new players I get screwed. I cannot do all the gens and totems and also keep my low rank teammates off the hooks.
I mean I manage it and my husband laughs as he watches the three escape and I die and still get the most points.
The low ranks are just learning to do gens and do not even begin to think totems can be issues yet. They really only bother when its lit and that wont lit until the end and then they are running for the gate.
It's just not in their purview as new survivors, and it tells you something too, when your score is higher than those who have escaped. They need to learn what to do, but its brutal for new survivors. I honestly don't recommend this game to new people if they interested in playing survivor, they're going to be frustrated.
The devs metric is 2 kills and 2 escapes that they try to balance around, but they only apply this metric at higher tiers . With kills around 70% (its much worse for survivors at lower tiers), killers are FINALLY getting some push back. But I've seen NOED being a top tier perk since release and watched the devs skirt around the issue.
NOED is here to stay, lest they prove otherwise.
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Truthfully, its the attitude of killer mains nowadays.
Having played since release I've seen killer get easier, survivor get harder. FULL STOP.
Infinites gone, vaulting/perk/map/pallet nerfs, bloodlust added, end game timer added, hatch close added. All this has made being killer easier and survivor harder since release.
2 escapes, 2 kills is the devs unit of metric. You don’t have to like that but it’s whats given the survivors all their nerks and all the killers current buffs.
You look at the SB vs. NOED debates that happend at release all those years ago. SB now is mediocre at best where as NOED is still a high tier perk.
Killers now are up around 70% kills due to the trajectory of the game and the devs metric system, unless you feel their metric system is bad, in which case they can undo all the changes I've just mentioned....
It's only been recently that killers have started getting push back from devs because the state of the game is disconnecting survivors who know a game is going to end in a 4k so why bother for 3k BP.
And what do we see? Thread after thread recently of killers whining. People talk about salty survivors alot in this forum but ignore the elephant in the room.
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D/c survivors set to increase?
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@Wylesong said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1110430#Comment_1110430
I personally do not mind the use of NOED and have come to expect it but I am just burnt out because of it. When my team seems to flat out ignore totems and later as I am on the hook being ignored because of it just sit here and laugh because I knew it was gonna happen. It just makes me hate playing survivor and I just recently seen an incline in its use again.
What you've stated there is IT, in a nutshell basically. What you've described is literally par for the course. Killers maintain just cleanse it, but its based off maps, team mates and motivation to do it.
It's also worth pointing out that its a train wreck at low levels. New survivors can't even manage skill checks, let alone understanding what 'cleansing' is supposed to achieve.
It's definitely a cheese perk.
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NOED has ALWAYS been a thing, ever since release.
Back in the day there were NOED vs Sprint Burst debates. Where people would argue NOED was needed to balance against sprint burst. Just think the same 'insightful' arguments you see now, just in a different timeline.
Anyway, long story short sprint burst isn't even particularly relevant anymore its been through that many nerfs. Compare NOED which has gone through a bunch of iterations, but I'd struggle to say it was ever nerfed at any point.
I guess my point being that for anyone that's been playing since release, NOED has been a regular cheese perk that gets mentioned by people such as yourself every now and then. But the devs maintain it.
I guess its just funny when you see killer mains complain about how survivor is favoured by the devs (lol). Because when you follow the NOED debate since release, for example, you cant make comments like that with a straight face, if you know what you're talking about.
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@McLightning said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1094722#Comment_1094722
Nope. First 2 are 5 minutes.
I don't think were aware of the cooldown timer either yet?
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@johnmwarner said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1094832#Comment_1094832
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1094827#Comment_1094827
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1094813#Comment_1094813
Yep, it’s a once in a while thing. Do we wish it was zero, of course, but for right now eat the short penalty and make use of the time. Grab a coffee, snack, go to the bathroom, call your mom whatever
You don't seem to realise that the penalties escalate and as far as I know we aren't sure the cooldown timer.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1094827#Comment_1094827
5 minutes becomes 15. 15 minutes becomes an hour. An hour becomes 16 hours.
Eventually "get a tea and come back" is going to be "play a different game and don't bother to return".
That's the direction I'm heading.
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@Frankie said:
It's amazing how all these things are magically happening on a much higher scale now that DC punishments are in place. I'm not saying you're lying, I'm just saying it's suspect.
This was always a thing. People just accepted the game was broken, now their being ACTIVELY punished for the game being broken.
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@Murd3rousClyd3 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1092816#Comment_1092816
I appreciate the sympathy, but you sir have more sympathy than I do, and I'm a killer main. It just seems to me that the majority of players that use forums, just want to complain until something or another gets nerfed or buffed, instead of practicing, persevering, and adapting.
People want this instant gratification of winning right away. I didn't start reliably "winning" as killer til I hit 500 hours... And at 1400 now, and can still get wrecked by a good team.
Really, killer is for those who WANT the challenge. If people can't handle stress, they shouldn't play killer. Lol
I can't deal with your logic and common sense in this place /s
Were you around when REAL infinites were in the game at release?
I just ask because you aren't the average entitled killer I bump into in this place <3
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At release, people pulled their cable, BHVR says wrong bad, you will be punished.
Fast forward a few years and BHVR says its wrong bad to leave games, you will be punished.
Give it a few more years from now and BHVR will say suiciding on hook is wrong bad, and you will be punished.
The reasons surrounding these issues haven't really changed, meanwhile BHVR doesn't really know how to push back on the killer community. They've created their own frankenstein because they failed to push back on killers in any meaningful way until recently and the killer community has LOST IT.
I lost track how many times people quoted that entitled Tru-talent streamer saying he was quitting, despite him getting 4k's game after game.
Survivors will be punished for suiciding, because the killer community won't let it go.
Mark my words.
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@ClickyClicky said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1092605#Comment_1092605
This is why I’ve switched to killer only now. Not worth playing survivor anymore.
Only toxicity that bugs me is getting coldwind offerings every couple of games but in that case I just play toxic myself and camp.
I tried going back to killer, after a bunch of 4k's the game decided it needed to match me at ranks sometimes 5+ levels higher than my own.
I had some fun then, but then started thinking if my games were that easy previously, that they needed to do that to balance the game for me, they can give me something more than just #reasons or just you know, make killer harder.
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@GodDamn_Angela said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1092443#Comment_1092443
God forbidden you have to run a perk(s) to counter a playstyle you dislike. Especially if it's a common tactic.
Oh wait, it's clickyclicky. Moving on.
Someone spot the killer main?
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@ClickyClicky said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1092437#Comment_1092437
Yeah sounds great. Put a game on and then its community and mechanics are so messed up you spend your time watching videos.
Sounds like a good mentality to have for a game that is meant to be “fun”.
Never work in game design.
If this was twitter, I would follow you.
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Let's wait for the D/C penalties to settle before we launch into the next 'great' idea unless you want a dead game?
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@ClickyClicky said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1092407#Comment_1092407
I can’t believe how short sighted these people are.
DBD known for being quite possibly one of the buggiest online games out there.
Meanwhile these kinds of players “fIx uR iNtErNeTz”
Just wait until the new killer is out and they’re getting stuck in pallets or gens or falling into foggy voids. They’ll dc, see the timer and come running back to the forums acting all surprised.
These same people would say it was fine for a killer to host with a poor connection back in the day too, when it was peer to peer.