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@Mooks said:
Pretty sure the reason it got killswitched to being with was, that the displayed bonus wasn’t applied so it was probably with the bugged version not possible to make it fixed to 50 %
also.. personally I don’t miss the bonus BP. I feel like I reach 2M way too quickly and the bloodwebs/spending BP feel way too slow
I know it was bugged but what I meant was a mini bloodhunt thing where they do 50% base BP not make the incentives 50% sorry if I wasnt clear on what I meant.
And better to have and no need than to need and not have, I just spend it between every match
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3294000#Comment_3294000
Overcharge is hell for most Survivors.
You know it's the same size skill check as unnerving and regresses a gen slower than base kick for awhile before it gets faster making its benefit very small? 100% regression is 4x slower than 1 survivor so it starting at 75% is laughable.
Unless you mean call of brine but that's still 2x slower than one survivor and survivor win the war of attrition due to that even in a 3 gen situation
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@RakimSockem said:
So remember back when there was this big hoopla about how 40 perks were being changed and this was supposed to shake up the meta and make different playstyles come to light.....
Yeah that happened on the survivor side, but the killer meta changed very little (if at all).
95% of my games yesterday against various killers were "Eruption, Call of Brine, Pain Res, + insert aura reading perk here". Now while you can argue that "technically" it's a meta change because Eruption wasn't used before the buff, it has the same affect as the old meta perks so the playstyle is the same, except more boring now because killers break chase every 15 seconds to kick a gen.
Meanwhile when I look at survivor perks in most games, there's a huge variety of perks being used and different playstyles at play. Some people go for extreme healing builds. Some go for gen rush (I find those boring), some go for stealth, while a few stick with the old meta (Dead hard, CoH, etc)
So I would love to see an ACTUAL change to killer meta perks to the point where I don't have to run into the same boring perks 30 games in a row
That is a meta change... you wouldn't see 2 or more of those perks before the change so it definitely did change.
You're on about a wider group of perks being used in general (which can be asked of both sides) but fact is alot of those perks suck...
Killer meta has changed more than the survivor one has in my experience, and that's with survivor getting base BT.
Not saying versing the same perks over and over is the most fun but you cant expect people to run bad perks over good ones and gen defense is always to be expected against any good survivors that do gens as they want longer games.
But I never seen overcharge, eruption etc. Before the patch so it was a meta change, you're just confusing it with a less focused meta
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@crogers271 said:
1: You can't tell people to get better because its not going to happen. The player base is spread out between multiple countries, languages, and systems. Those reading/following guides to get better are relatively small number. You can bemoan the state of survivor play, but it is what it is. As a soloQ survivor I have no control over 75% of what my "team" does, as killer I have 100% control of my play.
2: You mention enjoying things being hard; I agree, it's why I rarely play killer. I'd love to have hard killer games more frequently.
3: Survivor is not the easier role, not even close. Even if a killer is completely new to a map, they are told where the gens and hooks are, they really just have to learn perks as all survivors are the same. Survivors have to figure out where those things usually are + learn all the different killers.
1. Well you can, I'm not saying me personally go round telling them but more in general not everything should be changed to suit them.
2. Survivor is only hard due to bad matchmaking and people giving up, other than that it's the easier role as theres 4 of you. You can physically go on your phone and still do gens and certain maps give you the advantage ove most killers.
3. So killers easier because then get gen aura? Killers also have to learn their own power, as well as perks/maps like survivor and also tracking, micro manage the 4v1.
If you're having really easy games as killer you or the survivors are being mismatched no different to easy survivor games. There are many people out there who have very hard games as killer, everyone's experience is different.
Still shouldn't balance for bad players, survivor or killer. Balance for people that actually understand the game is my point
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3293969#Comment_3293969
There's a difference between new players shouldn't dictate balance and Eruption can't be countered effectively by 80% of players.
Same with Overcharge.
Or Nurse.
And you can bemoan the matchmaker, as we all do, but BHVR doesn't really seem capable of improving it to stop people from being in mismatched games.
Eruption can use a can sure as can nurse, they only need little tweaks though.
What about overcharge? Not quite sure what you mean with that one so can you explain? I thought overcharge is a pretty meh perk.
Well yeah but just because the devs struggle doesnt mean they shouldn't try, I get they seem to mess up with every patch lol but that dont give them excuses not to improve the system or to make the game more imbalanced by making it easier for bad players. Just a system based of skill and bot just escapes/kills would be a better start.
Afterall I think most people want more separate chases and not to be tunneled and killers want to be able to get more hooks for kills etc. Maps and rng could use a big look into too before touching killers and items as you can still have maps like sheltered woods that spawns basically no pallets or maps like erie of crows where most stuff is pretty safe and open
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3293960#Comment_3293960
Because balancing for bad Survivors is balancing for bad Killers.
A bad Killer will shitstomp a bad Survivor.
You know how the game is for M1 Killers at a high level? That's how it is for Survivors at a low-level/casual.
But it's not, when people say bad killer to bad survivor they're still at different levels of game understanding.
If bad killers was made so their powers was easier nurse, blight would have had it changed so it's more friendly to new killers and killers that had a range attack would get an aim assist but they dont.
Killers win at low mmr much easier for sure, no disagreement there but that's definitely because people arent doing gens and people arent looking behind them, insta throwing everything etc. And you can never balance for people like that its completely illogical, it's like balancing for the top top top % of survivor, make no sense.
Just saying the balance point should be for people that know how to play, so they know how to loop basics, perks and killer powers. If you balance for people that dont you make the game massively imbalanced as soon as people know how to play, making the game "fun at the start but imbalanced when you can play" making no one want to stay.
DBD definitely has alot to learn and take in for sure, it's not massively difficult skill wise bit it's going to take time 100% but that doesnt mean we should balance for people that haven't learned those things or when they do it becomes unfun for those who do understand the game
Edit: you also use the example of M1 against the best survivors, yes its completely broken and unfun for the killer, if that's a shared experience for new survivors sure if you balance so new survivors can have more fun that makes it more miserable for the killers. This isnt about pleasing one side over the other its abit balancing for when people have an understanding of the game not changing the game because people dont as whenever some does learn how to play it becomes unfun for the other.
Some things do need to be changed sure but it shouldn't be at the reasons "for bad/new survivors" or because the majority are "bad". It should be a set level and understanding to balance for, no point balancing a killer power against people that have no idea how it works or when they learn the killer becomes pointless as that killer has to hope the survivors dont know how to play with is kinda stupid to have to say.
Someone used god pallets as an example, just because bad survivors have no idea what they are etc. Doesnt make them a good design, it make a no gameplay situation which isnt fun for X killers which tend to be the weaker ones already
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@bobateo said:
Sure there are alot of bad players in DBD, there is in most games you just dont tend to notice because they have a far better SBMM system in play and you wont have bad survivors verse a good killer etc.
This in and of itself can be a huge issue. New or very casual survivors who get thrown into games with highly experienced Killers and new or very casual Killers who get throw into games with highly experienced survivors aren't going to learn anything or improve from those games. The games themselves are over too fast and the player on receiving end is going to be baffled about what even happened much less be able to assess what they could have done differently/better.
If this happens several play sessions in a row (or less) that new or casual person will likely play less to not at all. The less they play, the less they stand to learn.
DBD isnt a complicated game for either side
It's not particularly complicated, but it is A LOT. There are currently 219 perks in DBD according to the wiki, something like 30 killers, multiple killer add-ons that can drastically change gameplay, 18? 20? maps, however many unique tiles can spawn on the maps, and then how different perks/add-ons/powers/map layouts interact with each other. That's a huge amount of information to ask of people who maybe play the game a couple of hours a week or go long stretches where they don't play at all.
Say the term 'god pallet' to a new/casual player and they may have 0 clue what you're talking about, much less how to identify them, use them correctly/play around them correctly. And, what I think alot of 'hard core' players (of any game, really) do nto understand is that the new/casuals don't care what a god pallet is. They may never know that tombstone Myers has a closed fist or that a locker can prevent the insta. It'll probably take them a couple or more times to understand Bubba's chainsaw eating through endurance, making all unhooks with a camping Bubba super risky. They may never understand all the angles of flashlight blinds and how to prevent/avoid them the most effectively, or a dozen other things that people regularly scoff at killers and survs for not doing.
And it's not necessarily that....
If you arent constantly trying, pushing and playing your best you shouldn't expect to do amazing.
...they don't want to be 'good', but they aren't willing or able to invest hours everyday for weeks and longer to learn all the ins and outs of the game. They have no desire to play for 2 hours, watch 3 hours of videos, and then read pages and pages of posts. They just aren't that invested in the game.
Personally? My metaphorical "constantly trying, pushing, and playing [my] best..." is reserved for work and family, followed by friends, games played with family and friends, and then finally solo ventures of fun time like DBD. So, there are a lot of days where I'm just logging in to play a bit and then crash for the night if I play at all. If my matches start off with nothing but tunneling and slugging out of gate, or gens popping so fast that I can't keep up, I just quit for the night. If that trend continues for long enough, I quit playing altogether until a new chapter release catches my attention.
In summary, it sounds like a lot of your complaint is that people don't invest as much in this game as you do. The issue with that complaint is that if DBD becomes an unfun slog for anyone but the most dedicated, I would imagine the game will get 10 times sweatier at best. But regardless, not everyone cares enough about DBD to put that amount of time and energy into it that you're talking about. At the end of the day, it's just a video game. Telling them to 'git gud' is never going to have any effect.
And, whether anyone likes it or not, sometimes 'git gud' isn't the answer because the problem isn't a question of dedication or skill.
As far as perks/powers/add-ons/items go, a thing can be overpowered and need to be adjusted and that reality can be completely independent of player skill. If a perk or perk combination can carry a lesser skilled player to victory, then it probably needs adjustment. If such a thing forces matches to drag on for an eternity, it probably needs to be adjusted. If it allows one side to take the match hostage, and on and on......
Yes but just because someone doesnt understand something doesnt mean it's not imbalanced or balanced. God pallets as you highlighted, sure they may not know how they work of theyre bad but that doesnt mean as soon as people do they're the most boring and unfair thing and maps which have alot are issues for X killer because of the killer power.
I'm sure bad survivors think all maps are killer sided, and bad killers think all maps are survivor sided but in reality when people play and understand thos opinions will massively change. Giddeon is a prime example.
As for people not trying, I get not everyone wants to put in alot of effort that's fine but you cant expect to win or outplay your opponent who is and I can assure you killers are definitely trying more often. Bad SBMM doesnt help though here as bad survivors will definitely go against killer that have understanding
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@Ryuhi said:
Ideally the game should be designed for low level play, while avoiding anything that high level play can exploit.
Imagine a game like Mario Party as an example. The skill floor and ceiling are relatively close in the game, due to the rng factor having a strong potential to both rubber band and split the gap very easily. It has a lot of the outcome be separate from the individual skill requirement, and doesn't pick favorites. If someone were able to manipulate the RNG by picking a specific person and ending rounds on specific tiles, the party nature of the game would fall apart and people would be fighting over being able to stack such advantages.
DBD has a lot of issues that exist outside of the expected core gameplay loop, and can be taken advantage of on demand. The issue then becomes advantage stacking on both sides fighting an arms race to secure their position at the start of a match, and/or before it even starts. Tunneling is an answer to gen rushing is an answer to camping is an answer to god loops is an answer to 3 genning is an answer to...
The game just can't decide who it wants to appeal to, and tries to get everyone at once. This isn't even inherently a bad thing, until people know how to skew the odds in their favor, and then use that against the other side who isn't doing the same. The game really should have two separate queues to deal with this (with a ranked queue allowing everything and a casual one that forbids exploitation and limits synergies.) BHVR doesn't want to split their user base regardless of so many lopsided experiences for either side.
There's no way of knowing if the population would be able to sustain such a shift, so they instead try to balance around averages and hope it works out for as many people as possible. The problem is, people learn. Bad players can get better, and often do so by learning how to exploit the advantages that top players take advantage of, which creates a weird amalgamation of skill and strategy where it feels like everyone gets robbed in at least a few matches per session.
I don't know if there's a fix without completely overhauling the way a lot of the game works, but narrowing the win condition to kills and escapes was one of the worst ways they could have handled it, especially with how many challenges require purposely sandbagging yourself (and teammates on survivor side) in the process.
(also just in case anyone takes it away from this comparison, no, I don't want the game to become as skill-less as a game like mario party, that was mostly just an example on game design for comparison's sake)
I dont agree on low level play, not saying it has to be high level but we should balance for people that definitely have an understanding about stuff in the game from loops, perks and killer powers etc.
If you balance for people that dont even know how to use or go against X then when people do know how it creates massive imbalances.
Very few games balance for the top however many games balance for people that can play and understand characters etc. And that even goes for games where they all have abilities and more often than not when something becomes imbalanced its because they have made a character strong and easy to play.
Mario kart is designed to be for children or a family game so that cant really be included, DBD while it does have them isnt made to be a kids game, a kart racer similar but not designed completely for kids would be crash team racing as while it's not hard it does give the ability for those that can play well to massively beat their opponents (due to sacred fire, ultimate sacred fire which if unfamiliar with is perfect boosting round the maps without making mistakes)
Just saying you cant balance for bad survivors, because itd mess up when anyone knows how to play in the slightest. I also dont get why people can say balance for bad survivors but ignore bad killers, seems unfair... plenty of bad killers that cant use their power but doesnt mean they are made far easier to use
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Not this.
That's bad matchmaking, people that are bad and dont know how to play should verse similar people but they wont be.
If you balance for bad survivors it makes any level above that unbalanced, means anyone who puts time in wont have fun and will also leave. It also means the game is massively imbalanced as you go up in SBMM and it will annoy killers so they leave meaning no killers higher up and it will screw with matchmaking making more unfun games and more will leave.
You cant just say "we have to please bad players who dont play much so they dont leave and kill the game" when you can spin that narrative for both ways like I did.
A better SBMM system and balance for people that understand how to play (not amazing players just people that understand killer powers, counters, loops) would be better so people verse their own skill not mixed like it currently is.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3293679#Comment_3293679
Entry level for survivor is significantly higher than the entry level for killer. Basically, killer has the lower skill floor and skill ceiling (Barring notable, individual killers such as Blight and Nurse), while survivors have a higher skill floor and higher skill ceiling.
I wouldn't quite say that is definite, main reason survivors tend to lose when starting the game is they tend to hide and you cant win of no one does gens and the number of killers
When new theres alot to learn for both sides, as survivor you have all the killers to learn but as stated before alot of tiles are pretty safe and plenty of quick guides can teach that while killer has to learn all the killers too (if they want to play them) tracking, know what pallets to break etc.
So both sides have alot to learn and micro manage but neither side should be balance for people that haven't learned their role. Shouldn't balance for bad survivors or bad killers
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@apathyinc said:
Good players don't need to rely on any specific perk, addon, map setup, or power to be good. If something is over relied on and overused to inflate a player's skill level, it should be nerfed.
Then the same goes for survivors items, addons, perks, safe pallets, god pallets etc. But that's not happening...
It's also worth noting this isnt balanced for good players hence the post, people want to balanced for "bad" survivors which obviously then pushes killers to play in more unfun ways and I'm not sure how people dont see that... make it easier for one role that isnt playing well will make it harder for the other side.
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@Pulsar said:
Because most people don't have time to do that.
Most players are casual. They play a couple hours a week. They want to log on and have fun, if the game requires them to put in hundreds of hours in order to have a semi-okay experience, they'll just move on.
If the game isn't fun for most of your playerbase, it will die.
Sounds like matchmaking isnt working then because those players should match with and against similar players.
Not saying everyone has to play well, but you shouldn't change things to suit those people as it impacts anyone who does put in effort and plays more. You cant expect to do amazing at games in a few hours a week especially if you arent trying.
Not saying people cant go in trying to have fun but they shouldn't dictate how the game should go if they arent trying as much as their opponent for example.
So those players should be asking for a better SBMM instead
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Nope.
I'll play and use what I want as does everyone else I verse and I dont really care.
There will always be things people dont like and you will never please everyone. Especially in DBD where people will be angry over the smallest of things... but fun and likes are subjective, just because you dont like it dont mean others will.
For example I see legion thrown around alot, some people seem to hate him for some reason and I couldn't care about versing him. I barely see him but it's not a hard match so I know I can have a more chill game. Sure I may have to mend a few times but it's for easier chases as an example.
People can dislike what they want, just dont expect others to play the way you want and dont ruin the game for others If it's not your preference.
But as for the topic, I just dont use high rarity items/addons. I dont see the need to as survivor and too rare for killer so I just chill with the basics
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Disagree.
You need a really good billy to verse weaker survivors to even be able to down people with your ability so if the billy matches with good players I can imagine it's not very fun.
Probably why the last billy I versed new exactly how to curve on all loops and only got 2 downs, me being the second one and then proceeded to be mad at me because every escaped.
A good killer should be one that on an equal level their power is useful and helpful consistently. It's not fun not being able to use your power, it's the whole point of different killers.... and if you have to verse way weaker opponents it's not a good sign
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3290535#Comment_3290535
If we're shifting to that people shouldn't give up because they find a killer unfun, that's a statement I'll wholeheartedly agree with, but it's not quite the argument that was being made initially.
Matchmaking can be an issue (though the SBMM we have is pretty standard), and people just being weirdly entitled to avoiding very specific matches/killers is definitely an issue. I think the confusion here is that you seem to be talking about endgame chats and in-game actions? Whereas I assumed you were talking about forum topics, which have a more even split between people complaining about things being unfun and people concerned with the balance of something.
@MaTtRoSiTy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3290497#Comment_3290497
Ah okay well either way I do agree that many people don't take responsibility for their own misplays. But I do think gen control builds in particular can win games all by themselves and create a very boring meta. On both sides if the players really want to win and bring the sweatiest stuff possible, they will almost certainly win unless they get very unlucky with RNG or make some serious misplays
It's hard to make a single post about a topic because if you limit the post massively to one thing people bring up everything else meanwhile if you talk too much you lose people.
There are definitely things that need tweaks like nurse blinks being special attacks, eruption having a slight change etc. But most of the time it's always aimed at killer stuff even if that isnt the reason people are losing.
The main point of the post is to try highlight people are losing due to their own actions or their teams actions more often than other factors being to OP etc.
I just hate how people are constantly giving up instantly because of X reasons or blame the killer for their own mistakes. I get I'm probably way more sweaty than most but I'm not the best player out there and I have seen alot of people at my level but the last thing I want is one side to be gutted and nerfed because of bad players so when good players are matched it's more imbalanced than it already is...
I know it seems weird to most that a survivor main dont want most killers nerfed or survivors buffed but I want both sides to push to play well and better than the opponent if they want to win but it seems like people want to do bad plays and play worse than the opponent and still win... I dont like that
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3290526#Comment_3290526
Yeah your original post is right on but unfortunately most people on these forums are more average/casual players that aren't going to understand where you're coming from or just simply unwilling to accept it.
Almost every game I lose in solo queue is because me or my team played badly, that covers like 95% of the losses right there. The killers perks even if he's stacking 4 slow downs is rarely doing anything unless were actually playing badly since he needs downs for them to do anything in the first place.
People get bad teammates in solo queue and then want solo queue buffs without being willing to accept the reason they lost had nothing to do with balance, it was players playing bad.
Peoples definitions of "camping/tunneling" is also extremely broad, past actual reality. If i get good teammates he isn't winning without doing those things anyway though honestly. Do I blame the killer? No, I blame the poor balance of the game that forces him to against good survivors. Ideally we'd have the game balanced to where that wasn't necessary but unfortunately that's not reality.
So many people here don't play both sides at a high level and it shows in how they view things.
Anyway I agree with you, unfortunately everyone else here is going to dog pile on you.
Spot on, couldn't of said it better myself.
Eh I'm use to people hating on me, people either hate my opinions or hate me because I "sweat" in games lol. I'm just blunty honest and play any game at the higher level I can.
Whether its overwatch top 500, halo onyx, single player games on the hardest setting etc. I'll just say how it is but DBD is quite different as it's an asymmetric so people instantly go to mob mentality and only think of one side.
Just a shame generations seem to go to being sensitive and stuff being made easier for them with less commitment, never use to be that way but I'd hate to see a game I do enjoy get ruined because people are complaining about X even though it's a whole different reasons that the game went that way
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@TragicSolitude said:
This is so common in my solo queue matches that I am legitimately surprised when my teammates do anything.
Playing survivor is just the worst. According to the game rules, 3/4 survivors avoiding the objective is okay; it's only a problem when it's all remaining survivors. I can only hope the killer actually reports the other three players after I kill myself on the hook in those matches, since I know some of those go on for 20+ more minutes.
Its basically 90% of matches you'll get 1 player like it.
Though the past few days it feels like matchmaking doesnt even exist as either role. Like I win alot as both yet recently iv been getting brand new or the lowest possible skill level you could be so my theory is its messed up even more than usual (made a post about this today)
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@drsoontm said:
In my experience it's somewhat accurate.
As killer, I mostly get decent opponents with my good ones, and newbies with the killers I use once in a blue moon (a.k.a. daily) The map is the biggest factor there.
As survivor, solo, I mostly get decent teammates against OK killers and escape about 60% of the time. (And maps are usually helping, as most are survivor-sided)
As survivor, SWF, I escape a bit less and get from lame* to OK killers and escape about 40% of the time (half of my current teammates are absolute beginners)
It's not perfect, but it's good enough.
*) insta-tunneling + camping that get at most one kill if we simply push the gens and leave.
For the most part it use to be tolerable but the past 2 days at least have been the worst matchmaking iv ever experienced as both roles since the games release lol
@Tsukah said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3290545#Comment_3290545
Nope, penalty has been on for them since yesterday
It's not on though? I assume its be reverted? I wasnt aware they had even turned it off though but it's not giving you a time out on a DC
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@MaTtRoSiTy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3290519#Comment_3290519
Hmm well I can confirm that for me my lobbies are definitely all over the place as far as skill levels go (unless it is obviously a 4 man SWF).
Yeah I can say mine is, I escape often and I win often as killer yet seeing completely new players as both roles... makes no sense
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3290514#Comment_3290514
While I see what you're saying, I think it's a little premature to make a blanket statement like this. There are killers that are overtuned and there are definitely builds that are overtuned, so the complaints you see stand a pretty good chance of actually having a point.
If someone complains about losing to a Clown who just has two slowdowns and moderately useful addons, sure, that person should probably look towards their own play or their teammate's play, but if they're complaining about Alchemist's Ring Blight or Exposed-Aura Read Nurse, that's obviously a completely different issue where their complaints are on much firmer ground.
It's far too contextual to say people just flat shouldn't complain about killers and perks, I don't think there are enough examples of people who clearly are deflecting for this to be a valid approach.
I agree, but see how you instantly go to the most broken stuff on killer to make a point? That's a big issue, obviously some things do need a change I'm not against that but people are giving up and moaning about any little thing recently and that's just not on but it seems encouraged.
Iv never understood why people want fast games tbh but alot of the game issues are more on matchmaking or peoples own views.
For example people just give up because its legion and apparently that's okay because "hes not fun" when in reality its abit more mending for an easier basic attack killer to loop, but people see it okay to ruin everyone else's match when if everyone had that mindset of "this isnt fun give up" youd never get a game...
Matchmaking and a bad SBMM is a huge issue, the game is just too rng heavy with a bad system on top so it will be a disaster
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@Blueberry said:
People taking responsibility is a big ask these days unfortunately
Apparently so, so many people instantly giving up on first down verse anything let alone accepting one side just played better so they won.
I feel too many expect everything to go a certain way and it's always easier to blame your opponent.
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@MaTtRoSiTy said:
I thought this was just SBMM in general as I have long suspected it very much prioritises faster matchmaking over accuracy. But yeah I do find that my lobbies can have absolute gods and very obvious total babies who drop god pallets at 5 gens the second get within 30 meters of them lol
I'm not sure, recent days just seem like its non existent.
Like it's never been great but it feels like its non existent atm so I'm wondering what's going on. The no DC penalty is questionable, explains why I'm seeing them so much
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@jesterkind said:
I'm not sure I understand who this is aimed at, and by extension what complaints it's countering. I don't think most people even here are mad because they don't want to try and still want to win- occasionally I do see people who seem to be mad a perk or playstyle or addon makes them change what they're doing, but that tends to be killer players a little more, from what I've seen.
Is this about the Eruption posts? Because it is totally possible for perks to be overtuned, and even if it's not "carrying" to victory, it clearly fits into a troublesome place in the game's health considering the disparity between how well it works against solo versus how well it works about SWF. That's bad for everyone; killers get inconsistent value, solo players get more of a hit than SWF, and even SWF are pushed towards a kinda boring counterplay due to the way the perk's designed. There are many valid reasons to complain about Eruption that aren't "not wanting to try yet still wanting to win".
All that assuming you are talking about the Eruption posts, I'm not entirely sure.
Eruption can use tweak, more regression less incapacitated imo.
But the post isnt really about that it's more everyone moaning about nerfing everything instead of seeing the mistake they made personally or the mistakes their team makes.
I dont know if its lack of understanding or people are just blind to what they're actually saying
For example I can be in numerous games where people will moan about the killer, perks etc. And I'm just sitting there as their teammate like "no we lost because we wasnt on gens much, the meg was just walking around and feng couldn't loop at all" but I dont see how people overlook their mistakes and blame it on OP killer, addons, perks when we could have easily won if everyone played smart or at least tried to
Plus I'm seeing people give up basically every game no matter what just fed up of people moaning and ruining games because they cant accept they made mistakes and the killer just played better and is trying.
If survivors have weak links and inefficient player verse a killer who's trying with a strong build the killer should win. I dont enjoy losing because my teams bad, hell it annoys me but I dont want killers nerfed so it's easier because if I get even an okay team layer on itll be too easy
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3290480#Comment_3290480
Win is 3K or 4K? Do you think the game should make it you getting 16-20K per 5 matches? Because the Devs aiming for 12K / 20 survivors.
If you aim for 4K every match, consider you should try hard to get it, and should match with survivors who also aim for 100% escape rate.
Most survivors accept with their 40% escape rate, do killers accept with their 60% kill rate?
Well the game isnt balanced at all how if want it to be, I'd rather hooks over kills and force people to go for multiple chases and downs over tunneling and camping because it's the smarter play. And then survivor I'd have it based off more than just escapes.
The issue is killer is just based of kills and how bad/good the survivors are and any decent killer can forced an outcome that is a draw at worst.
The issue is it's easier to get a draw/win as killer with skill than it is survivor and that's simply because you cant control how bad your team is as survivor. But having said that the game is survivor sided when all things are considered especially when you go higher and higher in SBMM.
And with a bad sbmm you will always get bad players on one side or verse a killer stacked more than they needed to for a match because the one before they got destroyed.
Whenever it comes to alot of survivors they complain about the very top (nurse etc.) Which sure can use tweaks or silly things like "that's not fun for me so I give up" meanwhile theres so many bad killer maps/tile rng and then an inconsistent matchmaking so they always prepare for the worst.
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@MaTtRoSiTy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3290475#Comment_3290475
Oh I agree in that most players are not good, so the playstyles that people engage in to 'win' matches are not only unfun but actually completely unnecessary in the vast majority of public matches. The worst of that at present is the gen control meta (Eruption being the obvious big problem) which is not only boring but very oppressive against the vast majority of the player base.
From the number of posts you have I can only assume you are fairly experienced and if so you will not doubt win most of your killer games, as you know the truly great survivors are not that common.
I'm a survivor main so I dont really do killer, this was mainly due to when SBMM was first added and every game was a mega sweat and then they tweaked it and it's much better.
But the issue I have is survivors will often play bad and make a bunch of mistakes and moan the killer is OP or something else is.
I was having a conversation earlier that getting adepts isnt skill based and you just rely on bad survivors being inefficient to help but that was met with insults and "bad killer" but I can just tell good and bad players apart and I feel people dont see mistakes being made.
I never expect everyone to be amazing, but I do see alot of survivors be very inefficient or go down in places they really shouldn't against the killer but blame the killer and not their actions
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@JaviiMii said:
That is a pretty absolute statement that already comes with a bunch of caveats, like specific maps and only applying to a pretty limited number of killers and match outcomes. - The conclusion, as limited as it is, is still flawed though. Why? Because as survivor I for one face a number of different killers and builds, the team however stays pretty much the same. Now, if it was us and out skill (or lack thereof) that's the deciding facor, we should be losing as much regardless of the killer or their loadout or playstyle. But that is not the case. In the vast majority of cases the game outcome seems to be determined by strategies (namely hard tunneling/camping, Eruption+COB and certain killer-addon-combinations, e.g. double range nurse or alc ring blight, mdr Spritit etc.) and builds supporting these strategies.
That being said, yes. Survs playing meme builds and joking around are probably not gonna win against a sweating killer. Vice versa a meme build killer isn't gonna win against sweaty survs. - I don't take issue with those outcomes. I, personally, only take issue with hardcore sweating seemingly being the norm - which I don't particularily enjoy.
Well that's because of SBMM and you have no idea who you're gonna verse.
I'm sure most killers have won at 3+ gens, it's not their fault that game was an easy one a d they brought good stuff because the very next game they could loose even with the same build.
My point is as someone who mains solo Q survivor it's rare I say "that killer played super well" over "my team was awful" and that's the biggest issue for me. I want my losses to be because I was beaten by a better player not because my team didnt do gens or cant even loop safe pallets
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@C3Tooth said:
"Trying to win" eventually will put you "Try really hard to win" since the game match you with equal "Try really hard to win" survivors. Where you mention
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/G70RWOEHXU0Z/image.png
I use 0 slowdown perks and still get 60% kill consistently. I faced equally non-try hard survivors.
Yeah but the matchmaking isnt the best. You can quite easily have multiple bad or new survivors verse an experienced killer.
Today the matchmaking is completely screwed, it's like its turned off today so that doesnt help games.
People wanted SBMM, and you cant have "not try" and expect to win, if you win without trying it just shows SBMM isn't even close to working
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@MaTtRoSiTy said:
I disagree and with the current meta I think most of us have experienced matches where the killer won entirely because they had a full gen control build as opposed to genuine skill.
As far as wanting to win? Well of course winning is nice but the funny thing is I never tunnel, never camp, never use regression builds or run NOED etc and I win 90% of my matches even though I really don't care much about winning (I want to have fun not sweat).
Though I do think most survivors in particular are casual and therefore probably not the greatest players, a lot of the complaints are completely valid and are not solely because people are just plain bad.
If you win with no regression at all then you arent versing good survivors.
Not saying you are bad player yourself but you cant play super nice and have no gen defense verse good players and win all your games it's just not how it works. You'll be versing far weaker opponents than you should be.
I agree the meta is boring, but I dont blame killers running slowdown as without it games are over in 5mins easy if not faster
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@egg_ said:
There's plenty of killers that are so bad at chases that just get heavily carried by their stacked slowdowns and wars on attrition too
It goes both ways
Except killers have to get downs to win and most perks require downs.
If you lose to a bad killer you or your team clearly arent as good as you think.
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I mean I dont blame them, considering how game changing a flashlight save can be youd expect them to require some skill but they was made way to easy now.
When killers like wraith, slinger can get nerfed but something like flashlights get buffed you cant blame them, I dont think it's fair to say "I was able to get infront of you when you was picking up so free save for me" while some killers are left pretty weak/ janky to play and some maps remain pretty unfair for most of the roster.
The buff was over done imo, but I want to push the game towards skill=reward not make stuff easier for people that dont wanna push themselves. Flashlight saves lost their appeal to me, the skillful aspect is what made me enjoy getting them I felt accomplish... I dont get that now.
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Well it doesn't even always work and is a terrible system to even track still especially as survivor.
Plus the game isnt balanced for good players so 4good survivors will do a game so fast. So its boring easy for the survivors, boring unfun for killer.
I wouldn't mind SBMM if it somewhat separated new, bad, and good survivors but I'm still here getting paired in awful matches even though I escape alot.
I just want a system that pairs me with people that do gens tbh, dont mind people not being as good in chases but I seriously shouldn't be paired with people that dont do gens or killers that cant play.
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People just forget it's a 4v1 not a 1v1.
Most of the killer roster shouldn't be able to easily kick all the gens and down someone quickly without losing a bunch of gens or gen progress.
Fact is alot of players are inefficient and bad at looping and eruption massively highlights that in games.
Hell I can beat so many killers using it quite easily as do survivors if I run it (though I think I only use it on sadako) but people seem to manage fine. I definitely feel people blame the perk more than they should as it just highlights their flaws.
Perk could use some tweaks though, more regression and less incapacitated
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I just find it funny how so many people have issues with DCs and rage quits being so common but people still support it and dont think it's an issue.
These are the reasons solo Q can suck so much, not so much balance but the entitlement of survivors and them throwing most games
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@gilgamer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3288415#Comment_3288415
I dont really like survivor and I never really have. The only thing that makes it fun is playing with friends and most of my friends that played have long since quit
That's fair, everyone is different but survivor sure helped me enjoy the game more since a bunch of changes.
Maybe it's time to put the game down, I know you will have put alot of time, money and effort into it but in the end you should enjoy it and if you arent it will just impact your real life attitude.
I personally have DBD and my main game but I still dont play it constantly. I'll constantly have other games on the go and just have DBD as that one constant in the back.
Dont feel limited to DBD, plenty of games out there to have fun on if one isnt as fun anymore and it can be quite uplifting to change game
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@LordSturm said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3288119#Comment_3288119
Things absolutely do not have to be a big deal for people to rage and moan about them. People will rage and moan about literally anything, surely you know that by now.
Yeah I know but those people should be separated and put together.
I'm a very good player and I dont ever give up or throw a strop over X killer, map etc.
I just want to play a normal game tbh, with and against people my sort of level. Doesnt need to be perfect but I'm getting bored of being matched with people basically sandbaging and throwing games
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I mean wraith is just as bad against good survivors... I mean he was nerfed alot for some reason.
Shes not the worst but shes definitely a killer where alot feels it should just be basekit and not addons.
Shes just a weak killer like alot of the roster and I cant imagine any buffs happening as every killer gets nerfed even if they werent that strong (freddy, wraith, billy, slinger etc.)
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Play survivor.
Legit the worst thing to happen is you lose brain cells watching you get placed wrong in some games and your team have no clue how to play.
Dont have to deal with toxic BM or bs rng tiles etc. You actually get to use them (plus you can do other things while on a gen)
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@Haven414 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3288161#Comment_3288161
That's true, but that's also why I mentioned the checkbox so you don't have to join those if you don't want to. Similar to Rocket League, the checkbox could be almost a Casual vs Competitive difference. I think that could work at least until they figure out sbmm.
Yeah but by the time the game kicks people for being inactive and not even attempting to progress the game will be too late and the game will be basically over.
The check box would basically be "do you want to join a losing game" which no one would want to do and i dont blame them I certainly wouldn't
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Gen defense is needed as soon as people are slightly gen efficient and can loop.
You decide what level that is but it's how it goes, and The higher you go the more gen defense you need inorder to have a chance.
And if you go even higher then "scummy" tactics are needed.
I dont blame killers for using the perks because I understand if my team is even close to my skill then its usually a easy win if the killer doesnt have stacked slowdown.
Theres 0 reason to loose verse a killer with no gen defense unless you are way way lower than the killers skill. Most of the games I do lose are down to a very bad team, DC or suicide over the killer being really good or "op perks" as people say
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@Haven414 said:
I have an idea for a system that might somewhat help with this, similar to a system used in Rocket League:
If a survivor is AFK or holding the same button for too long, they get kicked out of the match.
Above the "find a match" button there is a checkbox that only appears when you are playing solo queue and when your survivor isn't carrying an item.
If it is unchecked, finding a match proceeds like normal.
If the box is checked, the matches it searches for will include matches that have already started that have any disconnected or kicked survivors.
If it has you join one of these matches, you will replace that disconnected or kicked survivor and you will be in the same health state and the same amount hooks and everything (except their character and skin) as they were when they left.
Wouldn't work with SBMM, youd just join a losing game and loose mmr.
What they need to do is have an actual SBMM system or not one at all and then group players that DC, give up, afk etc.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3287801#Comment_3287801
Killers' game can end between 4 to 12 hooks.
Survviors' game have to end with 5 Gens and a Gate.
Yeah but the balance is towards survivor doing those 5 gens and a gate so 2 can escape while killer is 2kills which can be 0-10hooks.
It's a big wiggle room for killer and let's be honest so many games are lost due to bad matchmaking, a DC/someone giving up.
I still dont get why we cant push for hooks and a better SBMM. Or at least put those who give up/DC together and let others enjoy the game
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@tippy2k2 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3287952#Comment_3287952
This, if for any other reason, you'd end up banning a lot of new players who are learning the game and still treating it more like a scared hiding game rather than the gen hammer simulator we all know and love today
Theres a difference between being new and slightly scared than people who arent new and actively avoiding everything for a 10+min match (actually longer than that but I was first to die on my first hook)
Just shouldn't exist especially in my games with how often I escape or my knowledge/skill at the game
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Well it was pig on RPD so nothing too crazy, 200 is still a long time though!
@ColonGlock said:
Dying means nothing in this game. Try to hang loose and take things in stride.
Random teams, perks, maps, choices. This is what makes DBD great.
If that was truly the case people wouldn't rage and moan about X killer.
Having a full team do nothing is not fun, the game went on far too long and died on my first hook.
The game physically punishes me and will put me with worse players when I want to verse people my skill. Its no fun otherwise.
@JPLongstreet said:
They do not ban for that, aside from afk as mentioned. Sounds like a matchmaking issue to me those survs and likely the killer as well shouldn't be getting matched with you I'd say.
Yeah but the issue is it's so common to get at least 1 player like this in most games which just shouldn't happen as its screws balancing because killers win games they shouldn't.
Today was a complete mess as survivor, every game was just a nightmare of me being misplaced and if I died I know I'm getting punished for it
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3287678#Comment_3287678
Every time, I think I've seen it all. But the the next one comes. You're complaining about dream pallet Freddy.
It's never fun unless you're winning son...
That's the mindset of most players even though they call themselves "casual" and just want to have fun
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Or because it's not as bad as people claim?
Like the balance isnt actually bad, what's bad is you'll get mismatched (SBMM issue) or someone will give up/DC for X stupid reason ruining the game.
It's rare (for me at least) I can say the killer won due to their skill when most of the time I can say my team was massively inefficient or gave up.
Dont get me wrong theres definitely issues but actual balance? Nah it's the issues I mentioned above.
It's also worth mentioning people remember the losses more than the wins as even I do this. I escape far more than I lose, and I have mega easy games too but the worst games and losses stick in my mind more. Hell look at my post history, alot of complaints about SBMM or people giving up.
But alot of solo Q players expect to be able to mess around, be inefficient and run random builds and not have to try their hardest meanwhile most killers will be trying their hardest to win and often run things the survivors dont like (slowdowns). And should the team with members not trying beat the one who is? Just because you yourself is playing well doesnt mean your team are and that's why you may lose, not imbalances just a bad team likely due to matchmaking or entitlement
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@BarnesFlam said:
Earnable event cosmetics? Yes, through the winter tome along the Bone Chill event.
New outfits for shards? Not anymore.
@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
Usualy with events there is event Tome that cointains some outfit(s) for just doing the missions. So yea, there should be.
@GentlemanFridge said:
Since the Dredge one wasn't officially revealed yet (as well as another one I'm forgetting), I reckon there will be.
@Mooks said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3286027#Comment_3286027
Pretty sure it was stated from the beginning that Dredge Snowman cosmetic as well as David Nutcracker will be the tome cosmetics.
also i still find it beyond hilarious that they decided to give David a nutcracker cosmetic.
edit:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/H2FGSMBJTJ6G/4dd8a593-dd63-46db-ae84-f686292074d1.jpeg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/4AG0BRD9975U/149d1264-0f8e-456a-a720-2d123a98db3d.jpeg
Thankyou! Much appreciated!
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Ngl I dont understand your stance tbh, I'm still enjoying survivor way more than I would killer (hence being a survivor main)
And yes before people ask I do solo Q. Not saying the games perfect, hell SBMM ans just matchmaking in itself is awful at times mixed in with people giving up or rage quitting definitely hurts the fun.
But killer sided? Definitely gonna disagree there. Unless you're talking low mmr or new players and then yeah but that flips at the top level so survivors are the power role (middle is mixed and actually sell balanced for the most part)
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@ShinobuSK said:
It made him even more clunky to play. Hopefully its just another bug, would be nice to have devs say something about this
Yeah I can imagine, seems to be quite common killers being made clunky in how they play. That was a huge argument for slinger and I have seen one since the nerf
@Blueberry said:
It’s very noticeable and does have quite an impact on game play. Needs fixing.
Hopefully, hate to see another killer never versed/played
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Hmm, not sure how I feel about that.
Might make me not see him played like other killers, seems quite impactful tbh.
Such a shame, I love the medieval time period and it was a cool visual even if the power werent the most interactive
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3283610#Comment_3283610
But there's no lethality in any of that. As long as the guards are so inconsistent in getting hits, Knight is just a glorified M1 killer, not the "no counter/drop your power at the loop/high B tier" guy he's made out to be.
I think he means micro manage bad players bad survivors who always want to heal etc. So it keeps them off gens?
But let's be honest by the time a guard or you as basic M1 get a hit/down against good survivors you're screwed. Knights only strength is to push a single survivor which always takes time.
OP is kinda right, but gen defense is always needed verse good players not just for knight. Killer adepts show this, the fact you get adepts is because of bad survivors (even though people say it's all about skill which just isnt true). Gen defense is needed for any form of efficient survivors, always will be