Dino7281
Dino7281
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Not really removed, there is a reason for it.
If there would not be any cap, you would have players with maxed killers / survivors same day it was released. This way you are kinda forced to play DBD to unlock it, which is what they want.
But I agree it should be higher, maybe like 2M would be nice and it would make more sense with new grade rewards.
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@Chilli_man2400 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2752344#Comment_2752344
but that doesn’t excuse bad game design. Legion was a bad killer but his gameplay was god awful. Slinger is not as bad he was better but ######### killers don’t excuse bad power design
So maybe if you know that you are nerfing already bad killer, buff everything else that killer has?
This is not supposed to be fixed in way that you just nerf him into oblivion...
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SWF is most likely only way.
I have seen this issue mentioned in some post and yeah, the way survivors gain MMR is kinda issue for elo Hell.
I am fine with how killers gain / lose MMR, but survivors might need some changes.
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@foxsansbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2752120#Comment_2752120
I'm doing 1 S tier character and 1 B tier. That was the whole point good sir.
Alright, good to know, sorry if I missed that I just thought about it now :D
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@Steel_Eyed said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2751075#Comment_2751075
Check out 5:40 and 11:40 in that video. There's several quick scope long shots in the vod. The Sprint Burst denial was a solid shot, too.
Yeah and also tons of fakes and holding ADS...
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@foxsansbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2751066#Comment_2751066
Yes, and I think you know what killers imma put side by side 😇
Could you please focus on 1-2 killers only? I think that is just better to see valid results with how MMR works. Maybe some B tier?
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@fulltonon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2665342#Comment_2665342
You can casually play insidious basement bubba all you want, it is fun to see people goes down basement stair.
Nah, I enjoy results of my testing more.
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@Steel_Eyed said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2750096#Comment_2750096
If by lots of zoning you mean there’s lot of 0.4 second shots, long shots, multiple exhaustion perks denied (a Sprint Burst and Balanced Landing). It’s what I used to enjoy about Deathslinger.
I think the key was getting used to shooting at 0.4 seconds instead of the 0.25 it was before.
Alright, if you really think he can be played exactly same, then show me a game where you never had to fake / hold ADS, just always commit and shoot asap. That would be fun...
In that video, I have seen you fake 2 times on single survivor that was like 6 meters from you...
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Holy #########, you want to do that?
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@ReikoMori said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/305199/why-is-there-no-stats
The devs didn't design the game with competitive stat tracking in mind I would guess.
But they track that data...
Pick rates, kill rates, perks etc.
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@Steel_Eyed said:
Twins may have a harddtime getting QOL changes because of how dominant they are in the game. One of quickest snowball killers around. Without an activation requirement or a need to reload, etc. All the little delays and annoyances they most certainly do have to suffer is to slow them down just a little bit.
CoH makes it quite hard, so I wouldn't be sure about this. At least till CoH gets nerfed.
Even meta killers can get QoL. I am not sure if bug fixes on Nurse counts, but at least Blight got quite lot of QoL.
Way to pick up Victor from ground would be nice for sure.
I would really want to be able swap to Charlotte even during fatigue as Victor, those 5 seconds are so annoying.
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It's quite funny how so many players enjoy arguing on forum about dbd more than playing dbd...
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I just enjoy it more than DBD atm...
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/305089/dead-hard-isnt-the-problem
Okay, two problems:
- Dead Hard was always the most meta of meta perks.
- It felt balanced around it's validation quirks. Fixing these amounted to a buff.
Now it's omnipresent, and using literally any other ex perk is playing the game sub-optimally.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2750778#Comment_2750778
Here's an issue:
- I'm playing Demo. I'm trying to get a down at a very crucial point in the game. I shred into a survivor by a pallet. Before the change, either I'd hit them or they'd drop the pallet and Dead Hard away and I'd break the pallet. Now, I get validated on the DH and fail to break the pallet.
I get validated on the DH and fail to break the pallet.
Yeah, this happened to me few times when I played Nemesis, so annoying...
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@deKlaw_04 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2750587#Comment_2750587
Those are two awesome builds. I love using lithe. I didn’t except you to be a legion main
I used to be Deathslinger main.... Well, not anymore.
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@HaunterofShadows said:
For a split second I thought this was going to be a post asking for survivors to have more control over what a killer can bring
Yeah, I was looking forward it too.
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For Legion BBQ, Surge, Pain resonance, Ruin (yeah, filthy tryhard, but it's a Legion...)
For survivors Lithe, Iron Will, WoO, BT.
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@egg_ said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2750518#Comment_2750518
Swf isn't "op" anyway. As they pointed out in the main post, "only a very coordinated swf" which is far from the *average* swf
You don't really need to be that good... I don't know what you consider average swf tho.
As long there is weak link, swf is not that bad, but what if there is not any and everyone can loop you for more than 60 seconds, most killers are screwed against that.
We had post from soloQ players tracking their escape rate and some had over 60%, which is really good for soloQ. So I can use same argument and say that not all soloQ players have problem to handle killers.
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@EagerOgre said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2750393#Comment_2750393
Have you solved any math equation to understand the MINIMUM number of survivors to kill in a trial to get one pip? Is it 1 or 2? I know it depends a lot on the other categories though.
It's different based on your grade.
In ash you should be able to get it from 1, maybe even 0 if you would max other emblems.
Iri grade usually need 3.
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@egg_ said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2750455#Comment_2750455
Why hate? Sluzzy is right most of the times, from the solo survivor point of view
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2750475#Comment_2750475
I'll just reply to your second point: ah yes the "leave the loop" tactic against a 4.6 anti loop killer that effectively makes you reach another loop in time (and if that so, that you'll have to leave anyway??)
from the solo survivor point of view
This one is quite important.
Problem is that his way of "fixing" it ignores SWF completely, so he is just opposite of most killers who would want to nerf survivors, because of SWF ignoring soloQ completely. Exactly same bad approach.
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2750462#Comment_2750462
A facecamping bubba would stop stomping noobs and then just kill veterans instead (you cant save against face camping bubba) and make their MMR get even lower so they can play with noobs instead? No thanks
Since when it is impossible to win against facecamping bubba? It's 100% possible for decent SWF groups without weak links. 2 escapes most of the times, 3 still possible.
But because you don't want to face them, you would just let them masturbate on new players. wow...
And so what if he gains MMR by it? In both cases you will not have to face him, so good for you and games will get harder instead of easier for him, how is that bad result?
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@dallasmedicbag said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2750455#Comment_2750455
tbh sluzzy has been making some good points in his posts..
We have been reading different posts, I guess... This one is not that bad, but still flawed arguments and ideas.
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I am too lazy to read it, so I will just same thing as I did last time someone posted about this.
Basically, there is not point to it. You will just make lost game longer. Even if you kobe, killer will just down you and wait 60 seconds. But most survivors would be petty ######### and just waited till last moment for 1 attempt to waste as much time as possible.
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If they would buff basekit gen kicking -> faster regression / some flat % removed with each, they could nerf camping / tunneling. They just need to make chasing other survivors / protecting gens more effective than camping / tunneling. So it will become a thing that will be done basically only when you pissed off that killer, or endgame.
But you can't really buff survivors with argument tunnel / camp. That is exactly same as you can't buff killers with argument SWF.
Both have same reason, if you buff survivors, there will basically be only camping / tunneling valid. Same for if you buff killers because of SWF, soloQ would go to #########.
It would be way better to nerf it and buff something else from same side. Mainly this way it's easier to balance it, then trying to nerf both sides.
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@Phasmamain said:
Honestly it’s come to a point where I actually agree with sluzzy. What have I become?
Maybe someone got on Sluzzy's account?
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2750103#Comment_2750103
I could say if you were able to slug all 4 survivors at 5 gens, they were probably below average. Is killing below average survivors skillful?
Because I'm pretty sure you dont see that kind of thing happening with better survivors.
Yeah, but if your system were based on hooks, I would stay there and were able to do it over and over again...
And also if you have Bubba that camps from first gen, what do you think is better result:
give him lower MMR, so he stomps noobs again forever, or give him higher MMR so he eventually gets against survivors, who can handle it?
This has nothing to do with how that player got those kills, he got them and if you lower his MMR it's going to work for him forever.
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@Veinslay said:
Wow, lots of complainers up in here! The nerfs were barely anything. All of the really good Deathslinger mains are still really really good with him they barely even noticed the nerfs, only the bad ones that just faked with their gun over and over had to move on to Trickster. He has counterplay now!
You know that it is opposite, right?
Those who liked to fake are still playing him, because it's still possible and you can also hold ADS now.
Those who played him for a quick-scope stopped....
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@Steel_Eyed said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2750096#Comment_2750096
If by lots of zoning you mean there’s lot of 0.4 second shots, long shots, multiple exhaustion perks denied (a Sprint Burst and Balanced Landing). It’s what I used to enjoy about Deathslinger.
I think the key was getting used to shooting at 0.4 seconds instead of the 0.25 it was before.
The fact still is that longer ADS + travel time + small hitbox make it possible to react and dodge it and you are punished a lot for any missed shots. If survivors are looking behind them, it's just too risky to commit on your shot and it's way more better to hold / fake ADS.
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@Ghoste said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2749841#Comment_2749841
The thing is quick-scoping needed to be nerfed. There wasn't enough time to react to it. If he missed a shot it was because of bad aim, not because the Survivor managed to dodge. That being said, of course he should've gotten big buffs in other areas, but they more or less hung Deathslinger out to dry.
Why should you be able to dodge it again? You could do it with DH btw...
You can dodge against Nurse? No, you try to predict and make her miss. Only difference is that you know she is going to do it.
His spear is same speed as charged hatchet, but with way smaller hitbox and you can't flick. It's really easy to miss it and limited range.
If you are able to react to it, then it's just too risky to ever commit to it, you are forced to either fake, or hold ADS. If you like it, then nice for you, but I find it super boring.
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2750044#Comment_2750044
I disagree. A leatherface who facecamps can get a 4k, while a leatherface who doesnt camp can hook everyone twice and not get a single kill. Which one would you consider more skillful?
I think how a killer plays during the match should also matter more than the end result, and hooks should count more than kills.
So if I managed to slug everyone as Oni with my power, I should lose MMR for it? Even it's not really easy to do, or am I supposed to be forced by system to farm them?
Kill is same for every killer. Doesn't matter how you got it. Unless you want to make specific way of how to calculate MMR for each killer, then you would always have killers that would be punished by your system.
The Bubba that got everyone on deadhook, chosed to do it, or he didn't remember how many times he hooked which survivors, which is not really high skill...
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@Steel_Eyed said:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=B__ma3CQZa4&t=665s
He’s very much viable imo. It really does play the same. Main complaint for me is the terror radius. I’ve now backed off both ADS cooldowns and even the terror radius makes sense.
Well, as I could see in that video, lot of zoning with fake / hold ADS, which hey, if you enjoy it, then he is fine and he is same as before, but that's not how most players played. I didn't played like it for sure.
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@anarchy753 said:
Since the validation changes, many survivors can easily press the dead hard button after your swing has begun, so follow them all you like, there's no mind game any more except for people who haven't worked it out yet.
It's easy for Lunge and Ranged attacks, but normal attack is quite hard. It's almost impossible to know if he started attack, or he is just doing different animation to bait your DH.
But yeah, I don't like DH, it's annoying when you manage to get good mindgame and survivor can just press E.
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2750034#Comment_2750034
That's one of the issues. SWF will often have more escapes because they play for each other. This is one of the reasons as someone who plays solo, why I dodge obvious SWF in my team, because a lot of times they will just escape and leave the solo behind. Does it mean they were better during the match and more skillful? No, it can mean they played more selfishly. Which again, is one of the reasons I hate that you can be a really good during the match, but if you die and the blendette who did nothing all game escapes, the game sees that claudette as more skillful than you.
The system only counting escapes as skill, just once again boosts SWF players. SBMM should look at everything done during the game, not just at the outcome.
Hey sure, I have nothing against that.
I think killer's way of getting MMR by kills is best we can get, because that is hard with so many killers and different playstyles.
But MMR was survivors could be improved for sure.
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@dugman said:
I played well with Deathslinger last night for a change, but it was in spite of his incredibly slow turning speed while aiming which I still don’t like. (I barely actually used the rifle, most of the hits were basic attacks.) He’s the only ranged killer who can’t turn at normal speed while aiming, it just feels irritating.
Does PH count?
but yeah, I hate it too.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2750024#Comment_2750024
Actually you can hypothetically look at all the games in the data, plug in all five player’s MMRs into a neural net learning algorithm along with a true/false input on each survivor being in a swf, and have it train itself to guess the outcome of the match in terms of escapes or kills. This should work since it’s reasonable to assume that very small differences in MMR probably correlate to very small differences in skill on average. And it would probably give better estimates of what the optimal rating for a killer should be against a given lobby of survivors since it’s unlikely that a simple mathematical average of the MMRs of the survivors is the actual best estimate.
Their result of SBMM is MMR based only on escape / kill. I think you want too much from them :D
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@Lat0 said:
I like Deathslinger more than i like Trickster. Once you get used to the slow aiming, it's not a bad killer
Sure, I don't think he is like worst killer in dbd. It just depends on a reason you wanted to play him in first place and how do you feel about his ADS mechanic.
I don't think anyone who plays FPS games can like that tho.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2749928#Comment_2749928
Technically the best is probably something like using a neural net to look at games involving swfs and various sets of MMRs to calculate what net rating swfs have if they were two solo players with identical ratings. It might not be a simple linear relationship or average of the ratings but rather something for instance where an MMR gap of a certain size in a swf has the most significance but then beyond that even larger gaps don’t matter as much. Or that the difference means more or less depending on how low or high the lowest or highest MMR player in the swf is.
Averages are the simplest to program but probably not all that accurate an estimate.
Your version would work for normal 5v5 games, where you care about how big is difference, you don't want top 1% player end against two average players.
But in DBD you can compare it only with 1 MMR of a killer.
When you have 1 really high MMR and 1 really low MMR, there is not much to do here, probably best is to make an average and find two survivors and a killer around that value.
EDIT: You mean something different than I thought at first. You would actually want to track multiple games and results involving similar matchmaking and adjust optimal value for that game to have most balance results. That would be hard af to do.
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2749977#Comment_2749977
Playtime has a big thing about it tho, or are you telling me 10 hours is comparable with 5k in terms of skill?
SBMM doesn't give a ######### about your playtime. Only thing it cares about is MMR and MMR cares only about escapes.
If that 10 hours player played only with his better friends, then his MMR most likely boosted af. Then there is chance his friends just have higher MMR than you do, if they play SWF only. That's how you got there.
So you can suggest better MMR system how it calculates player's MMR, but SBMM for SWF should still be average.
And if I have learnt something during my time of gaming, then it is playtime does not mean skill. Your progress in skill is not that big after like hundred hours. It may be for games where you have to learn a lot of things, but I don't think that is dbd.
So if you have new player that got coached by his better friends and / or took his time to watch good streamers, then he could be quite decent at 10 hours easily. DBD is not that hard game imo.
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2749973#Comment_2749973
Me having a 10 hour team mate, when I have 5k hours and the killer is also in the thousands of hours, isn't an average option.
Again, I never said I want to remove SWF.
You asked what can be done about it, so I am saying options. If you have better option, then feel free to share...
It's not about playtime, it's about MMR...
It's nice that you have 5k hours, but a friend of that noob could have higher MMR than you.
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2749961#Comment_2749961
I never said in my post I want veteran survivors to go against new killers. I said I dont want survivors in my team with 10 hours when I have 5k hours and the killer is also above 1k hours.
I just told you three options how system can handle it. You didn't like how average option works, so I just gave up an example what would happen if they tried lowest MMR option.
Unless you want to remove SWF completely or limit who can join that group based on MMR / playtime. But this just can't be fixed by SBMM, or any matchmaking system.
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@Marigoria said:
Like flying, insta healing and whatever else is real, auto dead hard also can be real, but this is a cheat that is impossible to know if the person is cheating or they actually know how to use DH correctly.
Those who just trolls where you get out of the game asap are annoying, but at least you know.
Hackers that try to hide and just get wins from it are way more annoying and it's hard to find out when there is no replay after the game where you could see their POV.
Problem is that you can things that look like a cheat. Was it just good medkit and CoH, or is he a cheater etc.
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2749948#Comment_2749948
I never said it would be better. With the trash SBMM we have right now there is no "better" anything really.
I have no idea what you mean by the 3 over 1 sentence.
What you could do is take 3 veteran players and play with 1 new player. If matchmaking was by lowest MMR, you would put those 3 survivors against completely new killer, who would get super destroyed. They would either bully him, or just finish gens fast and game would be boring for both sides.
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@Mooks said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2749915#Comment_2749915
They have been slow to address these things overall. But in this case, holiday season was in-between and they probably don’t have any further info they can give out atm.
first you say you just want them to acknowledge the issue and when pointed out they actually did then it’s not enough for you?
also the flashlight clicking isn’t the only thing that might be triggering/causing seizures for people with epilepsy. It is something that affected people should be aware of in video games and they should inform themselves if they are at risk.
Main issues are indoor gens with flickering lights and flashlights. Doc is not that bad for me, because it's not in fast intervals.
I usually avoid indoor gens if I can or try to find an angle looking at wall, but flashlights are not in my control.
And I think flashlights would be just easier to fix too.
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2749928#Comment_2749928
So instead of the killer getting destroyed, I get destroyed because I'm in a 3v1. Fair, not.
You really want to tell me it would be better if matchmaking took lowest MMR from SWF?
I hope not...
Get 3 over 1k survivors as first game would have to feel nice for sure.
Average is just best middle ground. None of those options are really fair, but it's best we can get, unless you want to remove SWF option, which good luck with that.
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@chargernick85 said:
Perk tier removal would help a ton....even if they just remove 1 tier.
Recycle would be the most fun though.
I am not sure I would want to waste so much time getting rid of all those useless addons and offerings.
If they made it fast like you can do it by hundreds, then sure, but if it was system like Bloodweb? Slowly 1 by 1, oh hell no. Well, I would create macro for it and leave...
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What can be done? Well, nothing. Most games have issue how to handle this type of teams.
From what I know dbd just makes it average from SWF MMRs, which is probably best you can get.
You can't go highest they would get most likely destroyed and you can't get lowest, because killer would get destroyed.
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@ThiccBudhha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2749911#Comment_2749911
Yes, the same people who are drawing conclusions from a test they didn't even watch. What am I desperate about? Proving that survivors who did gens before anyone reached second state still lose because they make horrible decisions? Yes. I am so desperate. I care so much about how bad survivors are at the game. You can really tell how concerned I am by how intimidated I am by survivors. It is all I post about, all of my losses. Complaining about mmr. Talking about how I want to quit because of it.
That is what my posts are all about. A huge storied history of crying about how survivors constantly wreck me and how my tunneling and camping never work. I think everyone knows that I never advocate for those strategies because... Honestly, I went so sarcastic that I forgot what the point was.
Honestly, I went so sarcastic that I forgot what the point was.
That's some next level #########...
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@solidhex said:
the problem is tunneling and camping, i'm saying for a long time we need something like DS and BT basekit and then balance the game around this. It would solve a lot of toxicity. I'm sure a lot of the killer doesn't want to play like this but whenever i do i feel like i have to against a decent team in order to win.
It's way too strong in pub matches against solos.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2749899#Comment_2749899
nah, it's not easy to deal with if you can't communicate and 5 gens aren't done in one camping session. Only because some tournament teams can play around it doesn't mean it's easy to deal with. I play both sides and i know how easy a game is where you tunnel someone out early. It's nearly impossible to lose as killer if you get someone killed at 3 gens
You would have to nerf the ######### out of survivors to give them those perks basekit.
There is no way you could just do it like this. All those perks they would get for free would be replaced with Unbreakables and gen rushing perks.
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It doesn't say that much about balance, because you are not comparing same sides.
Good luck trying to do it against stream snipers, that go there to win.
But if you decide to tunnel / camp from first hook, most players just can't handle it.
What it shows is that normal games are not that survivor / killer sided, it is just contest who wants to win more and use more resources to win. Problem is when you don't want to camp / tunnel and maybe not even use meta perks, you will have a game with 1 hook total and feel like #########.