Devil_hit11
Devil_hit11
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@StalkingYou said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3830674#Comment_3830674
Hahaha I guess. There are definitely times where this applies to killer too. If you are going against a good nurse with meta then you dont stand a chance. Some of it is due to skill but most due to the kit. Like good SWF.
i don't agree. losing to swf does not feel unfair when a killer is capable of output skill in their gameplay. survivors do have impact perks and items but killer also have impact perks and add-on's.
the problem is that a lot of killer that have an impact are perks to slow game to counter generator efficiency of SWF. the game is suppose balanced around efficiency, not around killer brings perk to counter efficiency.
on another topic, killer perks other than game-delay have way too little impact on the match that you don't really have freedom to make builds that viable vs top. it is all balanced around soloq playing poorly which is why most of killer perks are plainly ineffective with lots of drawbacks. survivor perks used to be like this as well and to some degree, some survivor perks are not amazing but freedom is wider than past. Killer perks on other hand have barely moved needle. Anything that remotely looks ok also receives negatives changes on killer side. that is perk side of things.
the other side is killer powers. most of killers that are average or below average have many pitfalls in the killer kit where they're exploitable. as a result, there is only so much that killer skill can do on like killer like freddy or slinger or demo etc can do. fortunately bvhr is unnaturally slow at improving killers and a lot of average killers are too low in average section. than you have killer like skull merchant that have to through cycle of changes until survivor figure out when they want to play vs killer.
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hexes perk are easy to remove and don't offer much time sink → perk gets no use. low reward perk with high risk. the perk could have 3 hexes on the map and than maybe people would run it. at same time, they probably wouldn't run for its effect but for hex:penti.
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@Smoe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3830608#Comment_3830608
Completely and utterly disagree.
i think he only needs that 90 degree turn change on scamper. the patch note state they fixed it but it is still in the game. S&D into scamper is as good as manual scamper if the killer can mildly angle the scamper at the survivor. the scamper change was poor because it missed a characteristic of his ability.
Manual Scamper is more in character with Chucky than Slice & Dice Scamper is, however both should be an option because they are both too important for Chucky to not have both options.
In fact, Slice & Dice is far more powerful than manual scamper ever was and if your 90 degree suggestion ever happens, it'll be even more stronger than manual scamper ever was.
i hope upcoming chucky changes add that change into his scamper. it is almost like they bug-fix chucky by accident with newer patch than intended.
I would rather that they just reverted the manual scamper change altogether and just number balanced it, rather than outright removing it and making every scamper related add-on entirely useless in the process.
Manual scamper wasn't good design and encouraged m1 post-scamper leaving survivor no counter-play options similar to how old legion used function. while his m/s is 4.4 m/s compare to 130% m/s of legion, the premise of the problem is that killer with extended experience are unlikely to miss m1 very often if not at all.
The only times manual scamper left Survivors with no counterplay is if they were camping an unsafe pallet. If Survivors didn't do that, then Chucky wouldn't be able to catch them, manual scamper couldn't even help Chucky get to Survivors at safe loops anyway.
It is in no way anywhere close to how legion was. Even if there was any actual issues, then it could easily have fixed by doing number changes to it.
I do think they should explore legion's vault →m1 gameplay to down people by giving survivors dramaturgy to attempt avoid m1 or dead hard but chucky variation wasn't it.
Again, completely disagree. It could easily have been adjusted to be more balanced.
Wesker should allow be able to vault pallet →use power to get hits and he is on the change list as well, so hopefully these changes a little bit more positive for killer instead of negativity changes like Skull merchant.
If Wesker should be allowed to use power after vaulting then so should Chucky.
I firmly believe manual scamper was too important to Chucky's character to be removed and i will keep trying to get it back because Chucky feels incomplete without it.
Also i am so genuinely sick and ######### tired of killers that mainly just ''press & hold power button to charge forward'' and i refuse to see Chucky be butchered/reduced into becoming yet another one of that type of killer variant just like Wesker/Blight/Billy/Oni/etc is.
I absolutely believe that turning Chucky entirely into another one of those types of killers will kill his identity as a character as he is more than just that.
In fact, Slice & Dice is far more powerful than manual scamper ever was and if your 90 degree suggestion ever happens, it'll be even more stronger than manual scamper ever was.
no because m1 cannot miss or their probability to miss when player is good is next to 0. Slice & dice can miss and the overall dash has restrictive turning so survivors can go far left or far right or play specific movement mindgames.
I would rather that they just reverted the manual scamper change altogether and just number balanced it, rather than outright removing it and making every scamper related add-on entirely useless in the process.
They can't balance in any shape or form because you either have enough time to hit survivor around loop or you don't. making scamper take longer for one hampers his Slice & Dice and it occurs wesker bound problem where when wesker vaults a pallet, the survivor always makes to vault when looping in a circle. it is true and false type equation.
The only times manual scamper left Survivors with no counterplay is if they were camping an unsafe pallet. If Survivors didn't do that, then Chucky wouldn't be able to catch them, manual scamper couldn't even help Chucky get to Survivors at safe loops anyway.
wrong, the manual scamper was less effective in short loops because time to loop around in a circle is shorter. the thing, unsafe loops where killer lunge is big enough don't really need pallet vault to get a hit. only requires a mindgame to be won by the killer. safe loops on other hand is where manual scamper was problematic because safe loops have longer walls which allows even chucky who is 4.4 m/s to catch up over a long period of time.
It is in no way anywhere close to how legion was. Even if there was any actual issues, then it could easily have fixed by doing number changes to it.
if end result is that you can vault a pallet → m1 the survivor and the survivor's skill in said instance is unavoidable damage than it is old legion problem. that is why they removed it.
I am not saying that BVHR cannot balance around pallet vault →m1 but to this day, BVHR hasn't bothered to balance around that. how you would approach balancing vault pallet →m1 is by making M1 worse. the goal in this instance would be to make killer able to swing and miss. sometimes survivor do pull this off by doing something called 360'd or a wiggle but this often said to be bad killer player if he gets 360'd or wiggled. however if BVHR makes it so that you have faster base movement speed as survivor than you can make wiggle or 360'd very fast such that killer has trouble tracking survivor with m1. this creates interesting gameplay that revolves around movement and baiting m1 in good instances to make killer miss. unfortunately for BVHR, BVHR hasn't really experiment with this very much and if there was a killer to do this on, it would be Legion who in his current is not very strong killer because of his complete lack of 1vs1 within his ability.
If Wesker should be allowed to use power after vaulting then so should Chucky.
Chucky already is able to use his power after performing a pallet vault. the issue is that he can't hit any survivor after the vault because his turning-rate is too bad to turn enough to do a swing. he just goes straight forward when survivor is taking 120 degree turns like → or ← around loops. he is never get a chance to swing and survivor don't really need to do any fancy movement to avoid the hit as they simply cannot get hit.
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singular stats are trying show that people that play singular use his power a lot but not many people use his Emps a lot. the problem is that you do not need to use his EMP at all in current iteration because the teleport+haste is too low number. he teleport's too far away from the target that the time spent to pick an EMP often isn't worth it because power can be outplayed with no item.
SWF on other hand with coordination can double EMP making his power irritating to use. you'll infect someone, they cleanse, you re-infected someone, the ally cleanses 2nd infection and than the survivor run forward where you can't teleport. EMP nerf his power passively but average survivor doesn't use it and does not need to use it because they nerfed his chase capacity through nerfing soma photo add-on when implementing it into base-kit where there is lack not need to use it. that is why stats for EMP use are low compared # of camera and infections.
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i think he only needs that 90 degree turn change on scamper. the patch note state they fixed it but it is still in the game. S&D into scamper is as good as manual scamper if the killer can mildly angle the scamper at the survivor. the scamper change was poor because it missed a characteristic of his ability.
i hope upcoming chucky changes add that change into his scamper. it is almost like they bug-fix chucky by accident with newer patch than intended.
Manual scamper wasn't good design and encouraged m1 post-scamper leaving survivor no counter-play options similar to how old legion used function. while his m/s is 4.4 m/s compare to 130% m/s of legion, the premise of the problem is that killer with extended experience are unlikely to miss m1 very often if not at all.
I do think they should explore legion's vault →m1 gameplay to down people by giving survivors dramaturgy to attempt avoid m1 or dead hard but chucky variation wasn't it.
Wesker should allow be able to vault pallet →use power to get hits and he is on the change list as well, so hopefully these changes a little bit more positive for killer instead of negativity changes like Skull merchant.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3830250#Comment_3830250
You will not convince me that sadako 2.0 was more skillfull than any other version. I was there. I played it. No. Just no. The condemn being map wide deleted any form of condemnation and TP - Mindgames mid chase. The effort of the Sadako player to win a match compared to what the survivors had to do was waaay to little. If you call that healthy, then I don't know where your standards are. Please enlighten me.
Did you read all of the suggestions made? You seem to pick what to respond to and ignore everything else that doesn't fit your argument.
@UndeddJesterand I proposed not just one, but multiple solutions to tapes not being a threat and TV spam being as effective as strategic tp.
I WANT the version that is about tactical movement. It's literally what I'm on about the entire time. 2.0 was not that. Not by a long shot.
I find it disheartening how you cannot see the strategic aspect in current sadako returning from her OG version.
The condemn being map wide deleted any form of condemnation and TP - Mindgames mid chase.
ok let us ask a different question. what about this version makes the killer more about tp or mindgames? here is defence. First of all, TP is not a mindgame. it is knowledge check and current iteration shows auras of TV's. so running people into TVs for outdoor maps is very hard if not nearly impossible in most contexts because if everyone grabbing tapes, half of tv's are turned off.
after that, we have to consider whether the killer is teleporting for tactic position advantage or not. this version does not encourage chasing any survivors because the time investment is not good for condemn build-up. this version of sadako encourages teleporting and than immediate eyeing next television and teleport to every single tv on the map. the tv are super impractical and encourage staying 1 spot like old iteration of 3 gen with the killer. there is lack of incentive to chase because rewards for chasing are poor and do not build condemn unlike previous version that rewarding chasing by breaking tape.
i have read your suggestions and my feedback towards said suggestions is that… it doesn't fix problem. the 2.0 version was the solution to her kits flaws. 3.0 version is further away than ever.
I WANT the version that is about tactical movement. It's literally what I'm on about the entire time. 2.0 was not that. Not by a long shot
the current sadako is opposite of tactical movement. the 2.0 version allowed sadako to teleport to near TV than use her stealth which admitly is not great but nevertheless sneak on survivors that she suspect are in a particular area and if successful in getting a hit, gain a reward for the play.
killer actions to some degree have to matter. you sometimes question whether BVHR is making a single player game and treating the killer player like some AI.
even if we go into premise of what is suppose to be positive about rework, the rework was at very least could have reworked her flicker invisibility gameplay to provide meaningful 50/50 gameplay for killer to win chases. they try to buff a her stealth invisibility only to not buff at all, in fact weaken it instead of reworking invisibility to give a decent sizable invisibility when de-cloaking(manifesting)… say 1.25 or 1.5 second invisibility while putting current flickers into base invisibility. BVHR couldn't do that part correctly. Instead we have lower invisibility than previously.
Lastly to talk about one of your changes,
Bloody fingernails partially basekit —> addon nerfed accordingly
this change already occur. after sadako was released post changes, one of the changes was her television speed boost being increased from 0.5 →1 second. your changes is like laundry list of QOL life changes when the killer design is working and is in a good spot. Sadako is far from in a good spot and needs more than QOL changes.
I find it disheartening how you cannot see the strategic aspect in current sadako returning from her OG version.
There is nothing strategic about pressing television teleport's over and over until a condemn meter automatics fills.
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@solarjin1 said:
how the hell did scout have the lowest pick rate. That wall hacking it provided was egregiously strong.
guide+escapist was better for soloq cause people don't do gens.
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it used to do that. it got buffed to not do that. wiki's outdated. in-game description is correct.
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old dms was useless. 30 seconds was too little duration. now it is useful again but coordination/swf can abuse it. at least the perk blocks an important gen sometimes.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3830223#Comment_3830223
How did someone escape getting condemned, when not holding a tape? TP had no strategic thinking behind it. Condemning WAS about constantly using tp when possible. I think you missed something there.
Current sadakos tapes have one form of threat. This being ring drawing. In that regard, I do agree. An addon should not be required. This just leads back to the problems her first iteration had. Therefore my suggestions for changes.
Thanks for calling my response nonsense. I always respectfully answer your responses. Id appreciate you doing the same.
It could be, that tp to any tv and not the one closest to survivors is working similarly to strategically condemning survivors right now. I give you that. To solve this, i stated this I dea from @UndeddJester:
- when tp, all active tvs give 0.5 stacks and the one Sadako tps to gives 1 stack
Again, she is servicable right now. Not perfect by any means. I NEVER said that.
How did someone escape getting condemned, when not holding a tape?
when tape breaks, you grab another tape. as i said, previous version only gave very little leeway for mistakes. the counter-play between both versions is still same. the difference in this one is that survivor has all control and their purpose of taking a tape out of tv is to shutdown tv for 70 second to prevent the teleport spam.
Current sadakos tapes have one form of threat. This being ring drawing. In that regard, I do agree. An addon should not be required. This just leads back to the problems her first iteration had. Therefore my suggestions for changes.
It gives 1 condemn stack for holding tape for 1 whole hook which is quite time investment compare to teleporting spamming tv's. survivors can insert tapes into tv to remove 3 whole stacks….. which is 3x amount that ring drawing generates. the time spent to lock-in stacks will bring survivor to death hook by the time they do anything. add-on has no impact to strategy described @trapners post or Gro's reply.
Condemning WAS about constantly using tp when possible. I think you missed something there.
not necessary. the current iteration is about teleporting when possible because once tv shutdown by survivor grabing a tape, you build no condemn so as long every tv is always closest and you tp to it exactly when it opens. it will keep its shorter cooldown and possibly build condemn.
old iteration was about tactical moving around map and getting m1 hits. It is just that condemn was so aggressively tuned that teleporting to tv's aggressively also build condemn. dev modified that gameplay to this gameplay… of pressing teleport on TV's which any player can do. I find it disheartening.
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@bjorksnas said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3830106#Comment_3830106
I feel like it could use a bit more now. Its a bit boring and a bit too niche to really care about any more
i think perk is worse than what it pre-buff because only one killer excels at using the perk. that killer was end-game legion. if you equip BFF add-on for 7% haste. Battery included for 5% haste, Noed for 4% haste, Machine learning for 10% haste and No way out to block exit gates. when you kick a gen and final gen is completed, machine learning activates and all these haste bonuses stack to make legion be around 140-150% m/s for 60 seconds. they saw this as too strong so now the perk is worse than what it was when it got buffed.
i think they should make the perk automatically trigger when any gen get completed so killer gets use out of their perk and it is not just a joke 1 time end game perk. At the same time, It is BVHR. BVHR simply isn't serious with improving any of killer perk for reliable daily use in killer gameplay. I want a perk that i can seriously equip in a build and not feel bad about not using meta. Not a perk a buff to laugh for 1 game and never use again.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3830210#Comment_3830210
I do. I stated my points oon her multiple times. I thought, og Sadako was fine in terms of core gameplay. She was unhealthy because the only consistenly strong playstyle on her was very unpleasant to play against.
Sadako 2.0 was a spam fest. Survivors could not escape condemned and Sadako could not interrupt tapes, which deleted any form of strategic gameplay. She got notably stronger, but lost the uniqueness that her strategic gameplay provided. She was the reason I started writing in the forums to begin with.
Sadako 3.0 is the result of long begging and discussing from not only me, but multiple Sadako mains here on the forums. Is ti exactly what we wanted? No. There is still a lot of room for improvement. I never said, that she is exactly what I want her to be. However, Im grateful that she got changed to resemble the killer I loved playing so much.
Im fine with now taking all kinds of … just because I wanted my killer back. Id be curious, what would happen if @GeneralV would get his wish and old Freddy returned. Would he get the same feedback because Freddy might feel undertuned? Hed be as grateful as I was and still am. Thats for sure.
For your sake. My suggestions to making Sadako better:
- Tape insertion time to the old 2 seconds.
- Passive condemned should make a comback but with a slower build up than the original
- Make Sadakos original starting cooldown lower.
- No limit to stacks being saved when a survivor gets hooked.
- Bloody fingernails partially basekit —> addon nerfed accordingly
- Ring drawing changed.
- Lots of useless addons like rickety pinwheel changed.
- Gideon meatplant reworked!
I think she is servicable right now but still needs improvements. I defend her because I dont want to lose what I fought so hard for to achieve.
Sadako 2.0 was a spam fest. Survivors could not escape condemned
i am going to stop you right there. Survivor could stop condemn. they stopped condemn by holding tape for long enough to escape. overall, you had about 3 lives or 3 hits before sadako could condemn you. She wasn't able to spam teleports because there was a cooldown to teleporting. teleporting wasn't about teleporting to every TV every second it was on. it was about concise teleporting to break tapes off survivors hand. 3.0 Sadako is about spamming.
Sadako could not interrupt tapes, which deleted any form of strategic gameplay. She got notably stronger, but lost the uniqueness that her strategic gameplay provided.
She had 2 ways to interrupt tapes. teleporting to a television and m1 a survivor to break tape. Her strategical gameplay was memoring survivor's taking tapes out of a TV and triangulating the survivor from getting their tape into a TV. The new Sadako doesn't have strategy because tapes are pure counter with no downside. the strategy is only for survivor. not for the killer.
I am not going listen to anymore non-sense.
I do. I stated my points oon her multiple times.
I am not asking you to state your points. i am asking you follow conversion on @trapners. to summarize his post says that the most effective way to gain condemn stacks is to teleport to televisions repetitively. i am asking you why you believe that this version of Sadako that spams TV teleport clicks for condemn repetitively is more skillful than 2.0 version of sadako that in my opinion required more planning, more decision making for where to teleport to apply pressure and more macro understanding of tv televisions logic(with old iri tape).
my thoughts 2.0 sadako is that the mechanics she had were healthy mechanics but the numerical balance of each of her condemn build-up actions was too high and the TV turning off mechanic made it too difficult for survivors to grab tapes. this led to her power being too reliable at getting condemn kills and survivors not having enough counter-play. the 3.0 version over stretched her kit in other direction where survivor now have too much counter-play, too much control over her power and she lacks play making potencial in her kit. GroßusSchmiedus talks about this in his post where he states that Sadako requires the opponent to not use tapes at all for her to gain condemn kills.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3829978#Comment_3829978
In what way different?
follow conversion instead of playing dumb.
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@Toystory3Monkey said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3830153#Comment_3830153
already addressed that. bad fountain rng = lost game. still have to play around extremely finite resource. still have to go out of your way to get it.
and camping, as i also already said, fell off as a strategy when you cannot facecamp secure stages properly anymore unless you get super good bottlenecks which is also very situational and deniable.
so, as i said, overrated af killer who gets her reputation from stomping players who have zero idea what to do while not taking much effort or specific skill to perform.
plague mains are one of those "high tier killer" mains who you watch being stomped by any half decent lobby unless they bring iri. complete joke of a killer in a desperate need of modernization.
pure camping does fall off as strategy, especially if it not done early into the match because survivor can do gens before friends however if you use slugging to down two people at once and you hook someone, defending objectives does work and plague is great for that type of gameplay. her perks also complicate defensive gameplay as safety net to do gens before friends. her ability to play offensively is possible but her lack of mobility and ability to transition into chases does not allow her to be pure chase offensive killer. it is the huntress problem. good chase, bad mobility. well… who cares about mobility if your standing in one spot and punishing altruism. plague banks on your inability to finish gens/gen-rush her vs her ability to punish you for ignoring hooks.
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@Toystory3Monkey said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3830148#Comment_3830148
yeah, if the killer requires iri addons and specific perks to be considered A tier, this killer is definitely overrated af. especially iri addon(s) THIS busted. It's not that the killer that is good, sorry.
even without iri add-on, green apple and yellow apple is 3 uses of power. you can play very passively in early game as plague, walk around gens, infect them. if survivor doesn't work on them, you get like free slowdown. eventually everyone does get sick, you go to fountain use your ability, your instant down ranged killer. playing territorial and camping has very little counter-play for survivor. your forced rush gens as soon as someone get hooked but with all stacking 4 slowdowns that plague can bring, it is not that easy to hook trade vs her ability and it can often lead to cascades slugs and snowballs.
lots of people have like 500 iri add-on on some killers so judging killer on best add-on is not out the ordinary. Myer's only that people hesitate to talk about purely because his regular version and his mori version play so differently that it is almost like different killer.
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@Toystory3Monkey said:
I feel like people severely overrate plague.
This killer is classic old dbd killer design where their power is entirely in the hands of survivors and without it they're just more resource efficient powerless m1 killer.
Even after her buffs she still relies way too hard on corrupt pools rng and survivors' actions to have the necessary consistency.
killers like her arent strong, they're just a knowledge check for survivors.
the only way plague can be consistent is by getting a lucky hook to camp when everyone is infected to maybe try to force cleanses and then MAYBE capitalize on that. which isn't even that realistic with the anti camp system they introduced.
mid killer that looks strong because people get scared and feed her infections. plague is one of the few supposed high tier killers whose mains I see lose games in public matches way more often than such players should.
it is her iri seal. iri seal+devote amulet is 60 second of power 5 times per match. at hooks, plague is by far 2nd strongest killer at camping hooks. her machine gun purge downs people in seconds when clumped up and she has incredible synergy with many of slowdown perks in the game. The obvious synergy is deadlock with add-on. She also happens to be the best user of hex:plaything because her broken status effect pairs extremely well with oblivious. Due to this, Hex:Pentimento has large opportunity to be effectiveness perk for her because you have to choose between incuring -30% repair speed penalty or a potencial ranged stealth killer with instant downs. All classic slowdown are good for her. corrupt, pain res, dms, grim embrace. even obsecure perks like Hex:Wretched fate or Dying light can work for her.
playing vs iri seal plagues that camp hooks all game is not exactly the most interesting gameplay for survivor end but it works for killer.
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@YuffieGreatestWaifu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3829909#Comment_3829909
You do realize hatch is a still a killer victory I know ego of many killers consider it a loss but its not.
not about hatch, it is about 3 and 4 man slugging. perk like this is difference between 0k and 4k.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3829915#Comment_3829915
Hard disagree. I don't think us discussing Sadako leads anywhere at this point. You will not convince me due to my thousands of hours of experience I have on her and I will not convince you anytime soon either.
Agree to disagree.
sure whatever. when other players state exact same talking points, you seem to continuously discard and ignore them. @trapners, @UndeddJester and GroßusSchmiedus all similar or exact opinions. your only one that continuously has different opinions.
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i think pig's lore and dbd gameplay loop conflict with one another.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3829776#Comment_3829776
Sadako is a lot more skillfull right now than 2.0
I think memorizing stacks, survivor locations tape locations and tv cooldowns to effectively bounce around the map, building up condemned is difficult to master and perform consistenly.
Its strategic skill expression that only few killers offer in dbd.
i disagree. I think sadako is most simple that she has ever been. it is spam tv and nothing else. there no decision making at all. tracking condemn is present in all 3 iterations and is barely skill. It is like saying walking left forward, right and backwards as killer is a skill. it is so basic that i don't count that. there isn't anything to manage on TV cooldowns. it is press TP → gain reward or no reward. it is why maps like midwich end up being one-sided for sadako because instead of condemn affecting 1/20th of the map, it affects 1/4 of the map with its radius. so the no reward or gain reward is like 20x more likely to occur.
The survivor gameplay is also very dumb down for tapes but poor survivor players aren't able to do basic actions so she still kills people that are bad.
I truly hope that they do something on this killer at one point but it is like Myer's and Freddy. BVHR takes AGES to rework these killers. Sadako is 100% in the turn your brain off section of the game.
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@AhoyWolf said:
I think it's not a good idea to encourage slugging, especially when the Perk would just help in this very specific slug heavy scenario and be quite useless during the match otherwise.
i was doing my personal slugging experiment and what i found was that within 100 games of slugging, the teams that gave me hardest trouble were teams that hide when everyone is on the floor. you get so close to winning and than the person plays super passively. the slug split up and one person get up and than everyone is up.
Than i realized…. killer don't have single end game perk for information. nothing. there is perks like rancor which only trigger on gen completes, Bitter mumur but require gen complete but when it comes to killer. there is nothing. closest thing you get is infectious fright but that is very short radius.
i tried to use whispers but whisper triggers on people on the floor. so i realized… why not suggest new perk idea on forums and that is how i came up with this perk.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
I think Furtive Chase is an interesting perk and for the most part it is fine, but I do have one minor problem with it: if a death hook survivor becomes the obsession due to unhooking someone, and then you hook them, then that's your last use of the perk. Since no one ever rescues them, the obsession doesn't switch and you basically lose the perk for the rest of the match unless the obsession changes by some other means.
To remedy this, I want to propose one addition to Furtive Chase:
- If the Obsession is dead, the next Survivor who performs an unhook action becomes the Obsession.
- All other functionality of the perk remains the same.
the perks design was suppose to be that you hook obsession many times and your base terror radius is lower after that. they reworked and nerfed old design and replace it with this design. so that is why problem occurred.
the perk is old. its obsession switch was there to encourage killer to spread hooks but this is way before pain or grim embrace or hex:plaything, gift of pain were invented. this is like baby child of spreading hooks which for long time was there but reward was so bad that nobody considered it.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3829648#Comment_3829648
That's basicly it. She's an alright killer if played at her best.
She can also become downright busted on one specific map, but that's an issue of that map, not sadako.
The best one could play Sadako, at least from what I've learned from the best is memorizing stacks and locations of all survivors as well as TV cooldowns and placements. Then all of that info has to be put in use effectively to keep condemn pressure up and go for a mori.
I don't need to explain, why a sudden kill is extremely strong and can shift the course of a match really fast I think, do I?
it is issue with sadako's current design. It is funny how people told me in Sadako PTB that this version of Sadako would be skillful and less spammy. Oh, Pikachu, they figure out that the best way to play Sadako is to spam televisions TP because 0 downside or opportunity cost to doing so.
after that, the dev hilarious put cooldown on TV TP condemn spam and than remove it and only later does everyone FINALLY realize what i was talking about. Please make Sadako more skillful and auto-pilot.
@GroßusSchmiedus said:
Sadako is on a long cooldown on the start of the match, survivors can easily find a gen and its TV to retrieve the tapes at the start.
IDK why so many refuse to use the counterplay then complain. Just take the tapes, no more condemned from teleporting and she now has to walk which is a massive time sink if you are spread out.
Her entire playstyle currently revolves around punishing people who suck at macroplay because her chase power is bugged for like 10 months now with no fix in sight.
if 4 survivor wait on 4 seperate tv's and she tp to one of the TV's, you get anywhere between 4/7 or 5/7 shutdown tv's at the start of the game. i agree that sadako is all about survivoring sucking at the game now. the strategy only works vs bad players.
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one astrick'd in my tier list is that it is with best add-on's and best perceived perks on killer. the one killer that i had hard time placing is Myer's because Myer's is 4/10 killer with purple tombstone and specific build but significantly worse without said build. Myer's placement if using tombstone is before Huntress. the killer are ordered, so I consider Nemesis for example to be higher strength than Xenomorph.
These exclusively my opinion when playing said killer and my opinion in judging difficulty in escaping said killer in soloq.
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@Akumakaji said:
I kinda liked her during the intermediate rework area, when you could go on full on teleporter frenzies and actually get kills with condemn, without playing 3d-chess with survivors, but I also understood that she didn't really fit the game with that playstyle. Still, I think it was a cool diversion from the normal loop and think that they should have tweaked that version a bit, instead of backing down to the release-like version we got now.
I think its kinda sad that a lot of killers aren't as plug and play, like the original ones and the first batch. With Trapper or Wraith or Billy you can just start doing something, use their power and here and there, understand what goes on and get better and sometimes (but not with Trapper) have a good time, but with some of the newer killers, you REALLY have to sink time into them to learn their kit and understand their ins and outs, to get to the juicy parts, and THEN they shine, but before you get there they are pretty lackluster and kinda low-tier.
Release Sadako was strong with the one-pump-willy playstyle, ie Ring Drawing and slugging and thus spreading condemned, but that was VERY specific and you really needed to learn how to do that properly, she really was far from plug and play and was held back by many of her mechanics. And today I am not even sure where she sits, tbh. She is such an iconic character and I would love her to be cool and different, but it feels like her comdemn and tape mechanic are still somewhat undercooked and I guess we wont see a real good version of her anymore.
Release Sadako was strong with the one-pump-willy playstyle, ie Ring Drawing and slugging and thus spreading condemned, but that was VERY specific and you really needed to learn how to do that properly, she really was far from plug and play and was held back by many of her mechanics. And today I am not even sure where she sits, tbh. She is such an iconic character and I would love her to be cool and different, but it feels like her comdemn and tape mechanic are still somewhat undercooked and I guess we wont see a real good version of her anymore.
i like when killer are not plug and play because it gives me a new experience to learn as killer. what i have noticed over years with plug and play killers is that they often play the same under same coat of paint. as result, you don't need learn anything new to play them and there often isn't point in playing different B because the killer is either worse or better then version A of same killer. I mean if we keep begging BVHR to make a good version of her, maybe one day they'll cave in and do something positive for killer.
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put it this way, a small map for blight or billy doesn't make any difference because these killer get around the map.. for example if we take Yamaka estate sanctum of wrath and double size. blight and billy wouldn't notice anything but every other killer that is not extreme map mobility would notice a huge spike in difficult for winning the match.
that is why they are shrinking maps because it doesn't matter for high mobility killers but it improves all non-mobile killers like Nemesis and Singularity. the average ok killer.
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@StalkingYou said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3828757#Comment_3828757
yep she was f tier then a tier now c tier lol
i think current sadako is worse then release sadako. I don't want to say she is F-tier but like… anyway, i rather not go into it.
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@StalkingYou said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3828527#Comment_3828527
tape + drawing only worked against potatoes
current sadako only works vs potatoes.
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@Yggleif said:
Nobody tell them about Chucky.
i wish player would stop using the pay to 2 win license card on killers. the developer design a killer using art work of another person's art work. the killer sometimes end up good and other times not like every original killer release.
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@Emeal said:
Clown seem to be in a weird area where I rarely see anyone use the yellow bottle, cause if it ends up buffing survivors it would be bad so therefore don't use it. Like the pink is way better.
i think clown's yellow bottles are usable state compare pre-buffed clown but skill-floor to use yellow bottle is too high. they need to lower his skill-floor so less good killers gain value out of the ability. I use yellow bottles extensively when i play clown but the average pub survivor match vs clown is not exactly the same.
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make it work when healthy. I sometimes run this with Barbic inspiration and Stake out as sort of a joke build.
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pain res on every hook so that time sink of hooking for 6-18 seconds is 0.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3828532#Comment_3828532
The actual slowdown comes from your gameplay. The regression you get from perks is supposed to complement that, not replace it.
10% total progression taken off is not at all a worthless effect. Other perks have numbers around this level and they're perfectly fine, so it would be for Pain Res too. It's just free extra regression for an action you're already going to be doing either way, so you don't need to "refund" the time spent doing it for the extra regression to be worthwhile.
10% total progression taken off is not at all a worthless effect. Other perks have numbers around this level and they're perfectly fine, so it would be for Pain Res too. It's just free extra regression for an action you're already going to be doing either way, so you don't need to "refund" the time spent doing it for the extra regression to be worthwhile.
Those other perks that have numbers around this level are near worthless. it is why i don't regression perk that much anymore. the number are terrible. Most my builds run are now gen-blocking builds.
Pain res is there to reduce the PUNISHMENT for not tunneling. it doesn't mean that killer won't tunnel with the perk.
The actual slowdown comes from your gameplay. The regression you get from perks is supposed to complement that, not replace it.
the actual slowdown for killer applying pressure is not good enough. decent teams are almost immune to any killer pressure. there is just has no impact. you get 5-6 minute games. it is wildly skewed for survivor.
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@jesterkind said:
I'll lay my cards on the table right off the bat: I don't think Pain Res is in a particularly healthy spot and I don't think the initial rework it got back in 6.7.0 (I think) really worked out as intended.
The goal of that rework, at least to my understanding, was to incentivise spreading your pressure across multiple hooks so that you'd have more access to your tokens. On paper, this should dissuade players away from tunnelling and towards less cheap strategies… but I don't think it worked. There's nothing really stopping you from tunnelling someone out and then using your remaining three tokens in the already extremely advantageous 3v1.
This, on top of it just being annoying as hell to face by default, is enough for me personally to want it adjusted again. Here's what I propose:
- When a survivor is hooked on a Scourge Hook, the generator with the most progress explodes and loses 10% of its maximum progress. Scourge Hook: Pain Resonance deactivates when a survivor dies.
This way, Pain Res actually disincentivises tunnelling someone out of the match ASAP, while still providing some real value for spreading your hooks across multiple survivors. It'd be less annoying to be hit by because the number is lower, but it can be used more often so it still adds up to a hefty amount of slowdown. It allows you to use Pain Res back to back on the same survivor if the situation calls for it, but if you get that survivor out of the match your perk's gone.
In my opinion, this would be the healthiest version of Pain Res. It'd keep the perk strong and viable without it being overbearing, and it'd push the playstyle of using it into a much healthier direction for the game; the best of both worlds.
abysmal idea. something that is not talked about with pain res is that pain res doesn't slow the game down. it only refunds the time takes to hook someone. on average, picking up survivor a survivor takes 3 second and putting them on a hook is like 2 seconds. hooking takes anywhere between 6 to 18 seconds. on average, it takes around 12-14 second to get a hook. the amount of regression that pain res provides is only dis-accounting 1 survivor being on a gen for the time spend carrying the hook.
So nerfing the perks regression makes the perk worthless. killers already suffer penalty for tunneling with pain res. they don't get full benefit of pain res which is -40% regression and grim embrace has similar limiting factor of -40 second gen-blocking. this assuming 2/4 survivors are hooked and killer tunnels after that till the hooked people die.
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haha, there used to be an add-on cheap gin bottle which increased bottle count by +2. got nerfed.
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@AssortedSorting said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3828494#Comment_3828494
From playing vs really strong nurse players, i don't think obstacles do anything vs good nurses because even smallest amount of line of sight vision allows nurse to backtrack where survivor is going.
Is an Aura not “(the) smallest line of sight (of) vision”?
The estimation is part of the learning curve of the power, which an Aura read allows you to refine with an exact position, allowing your second blink to be even more precise. (Because she gets a mulligan for whatever reason).
it is not necessary. aura makes nurse have lower skill-cieling. i don't think it makes her stronger like exposed did. you can do everything with nurse without aura.
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@AssortedSorting said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3828460#Comment_3828460
You know the funny thing?
Aura reading on Nurse while she charges her Power technically enters the realm of “Perks interacting with a Killers Power”.
Her counter-play is line of sight blocking, since her mobility power can ignore obstacles, her counterplay is making it ambiguous as to your direction to avoid her teleport endpoint. And Aura Perks remove that counterplay, therefore interacting with the basic counterplay mechanics of her Power.
i disagree. i don't think counter-play to nurse is line of sight. the counter-play to nurse is distance. the more distance, the better. it is because it takes longer charge blinks and there is longer travel time between nurse going from point A to point B. The longer her teleport takes to get to you, the more estimation the nurse has to do to land somewhere near you on the first blink. If she over-estimates the blink, she moves too far and you can double back the nurse blink making her 2nd blink out of range. If she is under-estimates her first blink than you have a better chance to outplay her 2nd blink because 2nd blink has limited range of 10 meters. This is also why Ranged add-on for Nurse were super powerful, especially first iteration because higher range meant less charge time per distance gained so you needed to be further to mindgame nurse.
From playing vs really strong nurse players, i don't think obstacles do anything vs good nurses because even smallest amount of line of sight vision allows nurse to backtrack where survivor is going. It is little bit like how chucky has that ability where you can see footsteps on floor and it tells where chucky is going to be. It is kinda like that for strong Nurse players. they can kinda tell where survivor is across the wall without seeing you. The fancy word for this is Object Permanence.
they don't want to buff Human greed to have longer range or longer aura read because survivors will complain about killers having too much aura reading. I hate this balancing for like bad players but whatever.
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@AhoyWolf said:
The Perk punishes Survivors for doing the one thing Killer wants them to do, waste time…
It has several issues, such as:
- Only 3 Chests spawn by default (on most maps), the Killer can only influence their amount with the Perk Hoarder.
- Survivors might decide to not search chests at all, making half of the Perk useless…
- Due to the low amount of chests, the pathetic 3 second aura read that you get when Survivors are really close to chests might aswell never happen.
- If I as a Survivor notice that my search speed is faster than normal thanks to the yellow bar, I just won't open the chest and move on, which saves me time instead of wasting it, if I still decide to open it and there is no item, I'm sure this Perk is in play and never touch a chest again.
- The Aura reading of chests you get works backwards, you do not want to see closed chests, you want to see opened chests so you can close them…
- The Perk has a cooldown for some reason.
The perk does exactly the opposite of what it wants you to believe it does, it doesn't waste the time Survivors have and actively tells them to not waste it by giving them several hints that the Perk is in play, it also wastes YOUR time as the Killer, because to use it to it's full effect, you need to go out of your way to use it…
Howerver, the Perk is salvagable, I have several buff ideas that would make the Perk instantly way better!
Human Greed
After a Chest is opened, it will automatically close in 30 seconds,
revealing the Auras of all Survivors within 32 meters for 8/10/12 seconds.Human Greed spawns 2 additional empty Chests in the Trial.
A simple change which punishes Survivors for searching Chests, some may even waste their time due to them being already empty from the start. You also do not have to go out of your way to make the Perk work, it does everything by itself. There is however one issue which I'm not sure how to fix without making the Perk too strong or removing it's purpose, which is if Survivors trully never interact with Chests, the Perk does nothing for you. So if you have an idea feel free to share!
Human Greed
The Auras of Survivors within 12/14/16 metres of closed Chests are revealed to you.
You see the Auras of opened Chests and gain the ability to close them.
An even simpler change, you can see the Aura of Chests that need closing, you can close them without a cooldown and the Aura reading range on this is quite strong! The counterplay to this is to just open Chests, which disables the Aura reading until the Killer closes them again.
What do you think about these two ideas? I really want to make the Perk useful because I really like the idea, yet currently it's quite lacking.
the number are low because nurse can use the perk to get wall-hacks through out the map. paired with hoarder and lethal pursuer, you get 5 seconds of aura reading.
human greed sucks as a perk and should get buffed but they won't buff it because people will whine that it is too good on nurse just like people complain that "Predator" is too good on nurse.
nevertheless, the build still exists…. lethal, human greed, hoarder, predator. aura reading in chase all day for nurse.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3828085#Comment_3828085
No. Pig is a small and silent killer when playing m1. I did not mention her crouching at all. These are small little tricks you can learn with m1 killers. some are better than others. Freddy and Pig being probably the best m1´s out these.
I did not say, that invisibility is suffiecient for check spots. What I said is, that shhe has "something" to help her in certain situations, where other killers dont have it. Is invisibility enough to outplay something like shack? No. Absolutely not, if the survivor is decent. Thats why I play poking - simulator - sadako. I chase when i know I can get a hit.
i think invisibility is too short to be of any use. i'd say for size, go for chucky or dracula wolf form. i think short height works vs inexperienced survivors but doesn't work vs experienced loopers. at least i have seen chucky and wolf form dracula try to confuse me with their height but i didn't look too effective from my personal experience going vs it as survivor.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3828064#Comment_3828064
i did not mention condemned or the ambush. This was solely about the m1 gameplay.
you talk about her invisibility as being sufficient for checkspot and short height…. for pig when pig is so slow in crouch that it is easier to loop then 4.4 m/s hag.
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@jokere98 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3827997#Comment_3827997
but even then it's inconsistent, since you gain stacks only on M1 hits, but lose them on hitting obsession with basic or special attack (in case of Deathslinger - he loses 2 stacks for simply hitting his shot, and 2 more stacks after hitting obsession with basic attack. But he won't gain stack from non-obsession for hitting his shot)
they didn't change reward of the perk. the perk only grants basic attack recovery speed. they only changed the negative of the perk which is that powers now lose stacks.
its counter-productive change because the whole point is that power aren't suppose to interact with perks but stbfl now interactive with powers negatively. at this stage, for consistent, you'd think that sbtfl should work on successful power attack cooldown animation but whole reason why that is not a thing is because of add-on's like…. demogorgon black heart stacking with the perk.
either way, i don't think the change is good and this is one of the most clear examples that BVHR targets m1 killers being weaker and favor's killers that are stronger to stay strong.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3827866#Comment_3827866
This whole conversation left a bitter taste in my mouth and I'd rather just move on from it, but the points I was making included: -
- You can't make modern spam Trickster strong cause there is barely any skill requirement/expression. He becomes oppressive if his power is really strong while also so forgiving.
- As such my argument with coffee centers around his narrative that 4.6 is better received than 4.4 Trickster. It is not, he's basically unchanged, just as many people dislike the changes as like them.
- Which feeds into your point that he's specialised, so we basically arguing about Trickster players and who's opinions among them matter. I would argue a divisive choice is not something you can consider a net positive by definition.
I'm responding to yourself and your (very reasonable and good point), but as I say, have no interest in this conversation further, as I'm liable to turn it into an argument rather than a debate.
However the argument boils down to as you stated, Trickster is no more popular than he was before, and is only a talking point for players who liked his specialisation playstyle.
Mine and Coffee's argument revolves around which group of players and principles should be considered in the conversation.
You can't make modern spam Trickster strong cause there is barely any skill requirement/expression. He becomes oppressive if his power is really strong while also so forgiving.
depends on how you define skill expression. if we define skill expression in how time efficient the killer is at getting the down than there is large difference between a trickster that has pin-point accuracy and min-max his knife time to down vs one that does not use his power effectively in a time efficiency manner. there is a skill-component in survivors making killer time efficient or not with his ability but we'll leave survivor equation out.
I think your defining skill expression as how likely he is to get the down and in that case, your right. he is simple at getting the down.
I'll use analogy with another killer. the difference between a huntress that downs every survivor in an average of 3 hatchets is a superior huntress to that which averages 6 hatchets per down.
You can't make modern spam Trickster strong cause there is barely any skill requirement/expression. He becomes oppressive if his power is really strong while also so forgiving.
I'd say trickster is more dull blade. Trickster loses less hard in loops that he is weaker in current iteration of trickster but the extremes in which he is effective is less. The 6 knive count is greater hypothetical effectiveness.
for example:
Let's say chase 1 lasts 60 seconds and chase 2 lasts 20 seconds for old trickster. New trickster's bad chase is like 45 seconds but his chase 2 is 35 seconds. the sum total is same effectiveness. it is just that worse chase was less bad while chase which the old one could down quicker is now slightly slower resulting no real gain. it also stems from base-throwing mode being worse.
Which feeds into your point that he's specialised, so we basically arguing about Trickster players and who's opinions among them matter. I would argue a divisive choice is not something you can consider a net positive by definition.
my suspicion is that the player that want precision gameplay from trickster are player that should play deathslinger but don't play deathslinger because they don't think deathslinger is any good therefore play trickster who at least current point in time is less bad deathslinger(in my opinion). When i say that, i don't mean his forgiveness to miss but rather counter-play for deathslinger is too simple for a seasoned survivor compare trickster.
@Revvium said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3827866#Comment_3827866
You cannot dodge Trickster knives.
i won't bother to change your mind but i will say that i do not think this is true.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3827934#Comment_3827934
How did we get to pigs ambush and sadako's condemned?
Sadako however doesn't struggle as hard at tiles like these because she can play around check spots to a certain degree. 90% of the time I spend with her during a trial,
Other killers like Pig and Freddy are relatively small and quiet, giving them an advantage on certain tiles.
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@RakimSockem said:
You ain't cooking bro. The "consequence" of following Ghostface to knock him out of his power is that he gets an indication of the direction you're looking at him from and he can just turn to you and now you're the victim of chase.
the problem is that revealing someone is pointless ability for m1 killer. i see you with killer instinct. well great, what is the point?
@TheSableSimp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3827872#Comment_3827872
He has no chase power whatsoever. All he has is his stealth which can be denied by survivors.
You can reveal him from 20 meters away then immediately run to main building.
I think 20% extra stalk gain is a fair trade for in exchange for revealing him.
there is add-on call night vision binoculars. when survivor reveal you, they gain exhausted effect. there is already add-on to "punish" you for revealing him. I think regardless of what they buff, i just can't see ghostface ever becoming a threat. what could they really upgrade on ghostface for him to even hit a 40% win-rate to 50%?
this ptb cannot come soon enough. i am like so excited for this upcoming ptb and nervous at the same time.
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@Akeeno said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3827894#Comment_3827894
thats what sucks too, having to use a perk slot for something that could be easily changed.
the reason its so infuriating, is because its the equivalent of a killer hitting a completed generator, and now you have re-repair it again.
haha, that's base-kit for killer. kicking gens. Good thing all it does is give you pointless 400% slower regression.
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its been a tech with old skull merchant. so nothing new. the killer still dead because reward for claw traps is non-existent. what is the point of giving killer information if they can't capitalize or use said claw to gain an advantage?
When SM was first in first PTB, this was first problem in her ability. no way to gain an advantage even if entire team is claw trapped because information functionally doesn't anything for m1 killer. they can't use it to do anything with it. it is like watching yourself lose.
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@tparadise said:
Why does Hillbilly's turning rate feel worse now with double boots (30% + 20%) than before the update with 1 single Spiked Boots (45%). Did I miss something? I don't get it.
Not only do I have to use double the addon space now, but it doesn't even feel like I can turn as much as before when I was just using Spiked Boots alone at 45%. This version of Billy feels awful to play on controller. The turning is so stiff. I even had more fun playing him pre Overdrive.
the way additive % work is that you get first 30% and than next 20% is 20% of 30% which is like… 7-8%? change was done to prevent billy from spamming overdrive with Iri engravings so not every chase for billy begins overdrive iri engraving every chase. i think you can still spam overdrive to some extent on certain maps but time sink is higher.
billy is notable a lot less effective as killer so he is more in line with how blight is in power-level.
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@GrimReaperJr1232 said:
Inner Focus was changed to only proc when the killer did damage. This is because people were using it with Plot Twist to get more info than intended. Okay, this part is fair.
Except, IIRC, Save the Best for Last was changed from the PTB when it got nerfed. In the PTB, the tokens were lost when the obsession took damage. HOWEVER, people were also abusing Plot Twist on the obsession force the killer to lose tokens whenever they wanted. So, they changed it to when the survivor is hit with an attack, which had the domino effect of killing the perk on Slinger or Trickster and similar killers whose attacks don't deal damage but count as special attacks. This is confirmed to be intended behavior.
So… why wasn't STBFL adjusted to simply be when a surv takes damage from a killer like Inner Focus was? A-Am I missing something? Am I misremembering and gaslighting myself? I need an explanation please. All I want is consistency.
because stbfl doesn't trigger on health-state losses, it triggers on-hit confirm. hit confirm is stronger form activation than health-state loss. for consistency, they made perk's trigger condition and activation requirement the same. the perk gains stacks when killer hits someone and loses stacks when hitting obsession. the only difference was what condition was to lose stacks. it used to not be power based but now it is.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
Shapeshift is likely being adjusted soon, as I think they realise it was overbuffed, the hinder plus window block together with the new shapeshift is insufferable.
if they nerfed add-on and didn't touch base-kit, i'd almost be more happy. it is just that i know that they'll weaken base-kit when base-kit is in a good spot for bat form.
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@indieeden7 said:
Bot to sound rude or anything but it's not impossible for M1 killers to catch survivors at a jungle gym.
it is if the survivor is good.
@radiantHero23 said:
As an m1 main myself, there are certain tiles, that I consider unfair for m1 killers.
These tiles often include one specific feature. A check spot.
If the tile is long enough, the survivor will always be able to make it to the pallet or window if their rection time is good enough. The most egregious example being long tiles on coldwind and McMillan and obviously the shack itself.
Sadako however doesn't struggle as hard at tiles like these because she can play around check spots to a certain degree. 90% of the time I spend with her during a trial, I am demanifested. I only manifest if I'm certain to get a hit. This helps a lot at longer and more complex tiles like jungle gyms.
A killer like Ghosty does not have this kind of courtesy.
Other killers like Pig and Freddy are relatively small and quiet, giving them an advantage on certain tiles. This however does not help at all at tiles like shack, where the idea with these killers is generally: force and break the pallet.
It sucks, but that's how it is and has always been.
i think the problem with checkspot's is that m1 killer have no lunge reach. your just out of range that survivor can on reaction run a little bit and hit the vault before your able to press m1 to hit them. shack is perfect example where window has checkspot with red glow that the survivor can react on. the worst part is that even if you hide red glow, the survivor can leave loops or go around long way to ignore any potencial to get hit. Jungle gym are much of the same. for shack, it is god pallet where the survivor has near infinity reaction time and then jungle gym has checkspot on pallet in which they can slide on reaction.
without considering windows in the game, lots of pallets are long enough that there is specific checkspot that survivor can camp the pallet and slide on reaction to your lunge m1. it is big pitfall of every m1 killer.
I disagree that Sadako's invisibility is adequate to combat/prevent reaction vaulting and window vault. I can get behind condemn being significant worse to the point of ineffective a competent team but at same time, you would think that BVHR would at the very least make her invisibility into competent chase tool that barebones enables 50/50's.
With pig ambush dash, her ambush is at cusk of almost enabling 50/50's. i think 3 things that prevent pig from enabling 50/50's on the ultra safe tiles is:
- too slow crouch movement speed. the whole uncrouch and re-crouch is somewhat tedious in chase. it would be better if pig was 4.4 m/s in crouch so there isn't an added 1 second extra charge time to ambush dashing
- speaking of charge time, workshop grease should be base-kit for pig. the add-on should be reworked to grant 30% unrelenting and 30% stbfl stacks.
- increasing pig's movement in dash by around 25% total.
those would be my dream changes for pig. Pig could for real be a m2 only killer with few significant buffs. right now i think you need to work a lot harder as pig to be m2 only killer than what should be expected for killer. the ability has use but i feel like the ability should always be useful rather than selectively useful.