Devil_hit11
Devil_hit11
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i think residual manifest and overzealous perk could be one perk. When you shine a flashlight at a killer, the killer suffers a -50% vault speed debuff for 60 second for vaulting windows.
I do not understand point of current inner focus. it sounds like a perk to keep track of killer by keeping track of survivor footsteps across the map. something that empathy does better despite having the injured condition.
Perhaps it would be better if it gave killer footsteps periodically in the chase like lightweight. for example you can see killer footsteps like chucky every 15 second for 3 seconds.
Overzealous does not need any reworks. it should only lose the turn off condition for being injured. it is regular gen perk for doing totems which most player label doing totems as waste of time.
@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3840959#Comment_3840959
Regarding Overzealous: It activates when you bless a totem, as well. You only have to run a boon as well to make this perk extremely accessible due to never running out of potential charges, and to make the timesink more efficient because you give your whole team an extra effect. It's a damn good perk, I'd hate to see it go. I do like your replacement effect as an idea, but I'd much prefer to see it on a new perk instead.
i think it's a perk to make map item as relevant item. i think people don't run it because they look at negative.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3841001#Comment_3841001
All fair, but the difference in all cases is that survivors can bait, predict and juke Billy, even out in the open... but for the other examples, in the same scenarios where they can juke Billy, they can't juke the other killers. Survivors need supporting structures to avoid taking hits.
Billy can only turn around terrain at the start of his dash, he only has specific points in the loop cycle he can actually go for hits, and it is highly telegraphed to the survivor. This is unlike Blight, Nurse and Chucky who can still turn/redirect their hit after their initial rush. Their effectively lethality therefore exists for the entire duration of their ability, rather than Billy where if he is not on the correct line after 0.75s, he misses.
This is the reason Chucky and Blight can't instant down and have a cooldown, because they can effectively turn around terrain with far more control than Billy, and at the end of their dashes they can turn on the spot and still land a hit. Nurse is similarly far superior than Billy, cause while she needs to predict, she has full control of her lunge in any direction, and can get a second blink to correct her prediction and still land a hit.
Billy has his 2.7s recovery and then has to charge up his chainsaw again form each attempt, which is often enough time to vault a window, throw a pallet or make it around terrain where Billy has to again steer around terrain to land a hit.
The simple reason why Billy gets to spam his ability is he can fire off 5 attempts and often miss 4 of them, and this isn't strange for Billy.
All the other cases, like Double Blink Nurse, Chucky S&D, Blight Dash, Oni slam, they often hit their ability nearly every time.
i think your missing @Rulebreaker point. his argument is that billy's lower performance ball is greater than his higher performance ball even when not accounting reliability.
in other words, avoiding a billy chainsaw out in the open for him landing a hit is higher reward for billy to succeed than all mentioned killers. it is little bit like argument if Oni's Katana as basic m1 was instant down and his power to move super fast was a bonus power-up. He'd be better than 80% of m1 killers as his weak form, not accounting his real ability.
that's kinda where billy is. he's better than 80% of the killers just by the fact that he has base-kit instant down that doesn't require any setup while being reliable hit if the player is good. His curving and his ability to play global & hit run with pallets is probably what makes him ascend as a killer into higher tier of killer. to me, it just looks a classic Killer camp hooks with instant down argument. Mobility allows you to return to hook faster hence they think that is a problem. other killer have to earn the ability to instant down and none of them except for Oni have mobility+instant down but Oni's drawback of limit duration+earning power can make camping a sub optimal choice.
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filler add-on's to remove need to put effort into real add-on's. chipped and cat figurine are worse than not using them, they block your vision or perform involuntary camera movement.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3841371#Comment_3841371
That's the opposite conclusion to what I was going for.
since very start of the perk, the perk was always designed for camping. it is where the insidious leatherface monstrous meme was born. the numbers of the perk were abysmal bad on top of having strict basement condition. now the perk is never good. it is like good job nerfing a meme perk.
for this perk to be even remotely relevant as non-anti camp perk, you could put number at 100% when the killer is in the chase away from 24 meters and i think you'd still be able to get to the hook with 100% speed increase value.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3841013#Comment_3841013
The buff to the hook timer was to lessen the effects of camping. Monstrous Shrine can't activate while camping.
which is why best buff to this perk would be to remove 24 meter restriction for this perk to activate…
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@ad19970 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3840882#Comment_3840882
You want the teammate of fearmonger to insta down all the time?
These all seem like omega buffs to killers classes. I feel like most people would mind the hour long queue times killers would have in that case.
the survivor classes are omega buffs for survivor. they summarize survivor's perks very well without having over-lapping strengths.
I am attempting to do that with killer classes but i don't think it works as well because in practice, a killer either needs a lot of chase bonuses because they're time efficiency in chase is not good or they're a killer that needs nothing and its only class can be worth boosting another killer's capacity.
the dev kinda see aura for killer and generator regression as base-kit thing. question for why that isn't in the regular mode?
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@LeFennecFox said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3840992#Comment_3840992
Fearmonger is pretty meh on nurse. A better combination would be nurse w/ enforcer so she gets aura read then downs gives wraith mini coup for 15s + more aura after gen kicks. Having extra lunge is way more impactful at loops especially combining it with uncloak speed boost.
Wraith would run either brute for even faster break speed or shadow to create more confusion and setup nurse for free tags.
fearmonger is better because nurse doesn't need help in the chase and plays like lone gunner killer. the bonus is near global as long you hit survivors further then 16 meters away from teammate which in practice is every hit if you are not together.
enforcer is what wraith should be selecting because of first bonus which is that your 3% faster when chasing injured survivors which for wraith is every chase because of stealth and first hits. combine, you get 13% haste for nurse hitting someone. almost instant bl3. enforcer is like… made for m1 killers.
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@LeFennecFox said:
Wraith's mobility is alright his chase ehh and nurse's mobility is pretty meh even with power buffs. Blight + Billy (practically 0 cooldown mobility tool) is the way to go if you want to mass slug. You forget to mention that it also prevents survivor skill unlocks from activating so no insane guide gen pops will happen. I'm not so sure about the effectiveness of slugging if you were actually going against a group of smart players using medic to pick up large groups of players + heal them.
fearmonger class on nurse is strong because nurse's chase is strong, whenever she hits a survivor, your ally gains 10% haste which for wraith's lunge is strong coupled with his windstorm, his swift hunt and his pallet break base-kit makes him a decent killer. they're playing a synergy comp.
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in general, the killer classes should do a lot more than what they do now. they're all terrible except unseen class.
Brute class should have brutal strength, enduring+spirit fury, and stbfl+rapid.
fearmonger class should make your teammate expose instant down, apply mangled, grant them 5% haste for 15 seconds every time you hit a survivor. You only get to see the aura's of the nearest survivor after putting a survivor into the dying state for 5 seconds.
Enforcer class: Grants the killer 100% lunge distance, every time they put a survivor into the dying state, the generators in a 32 meter area block for 14 seconds. The killer gains bloodlust 50% faster.
Unseen: you are granted undetectable status effect every 30 seconds. this bonus is transfer to your teammate when you hit someone. Your terror radius is reduced by 8 meters. when a survivor is hit by your attack, all pallets are blocked for 6 seconds.
they don't add slowdown, just don't add survivor global speed-up for survivor losing….
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@Sngfun said:
Wait have you tested it? Does it really work with gift of pain and flood of pain?
If so, I have a devilish build planned with Deathbound 😈
it does. you get scourge hook which triggers flood of rage and gift of pain in the same hook.
@danielmaster87 said:
I think it's a bandaid perk for a broken mechanic. The problem with scourge hooks is that they're almost never spaced properly, the result of which is a killer equipping a perk(s) and not being able to use it due to RNG, not even due to something they can control or something the survivors do. There's several solutions for this. Code the scourge hooks to be evenly spaced. Get rid of the scourge hook mechanic altogether, and just give killers the benefit of the perk whenever they get a hook. Or make the first few hooks the killer uses turn into scourge hooks. But no. They did the copout solution and just created a perk for it, the same way they created Shattered Hope. My view on this perk is negative for these reasons; I don't really care what the secondary effects are.
its unnecessary rng on a mechanic that does not need rng.
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@Boons123 said:
For some reason the developers are tolerant of Hex perks where you have a Hex that can be present once you complete an action or even a Hex that gives another Hex another chance etc.
Even with scourge hooks perks they became tolerant and with the introduction of the new scourge hooks perk where once the survivor unhook a survivor that hook becomes a scourge hooks.
But when it comes to Boon, Teamwork or Invocation perks, they are very strict with numbers and rules and even with benefits.
It doesn't matter if the numbers and rules will kill the perk, the numbers and rules must be exactly the same as the previous perk, no exceptions!!
Literally some perks are not useful no matter how many times you buff perk all it takes is some exceptions for it to be useful don't be too strict.
For those who did not understand what I meant.
Putting the same numbers, rules, and negatives regardless of whether the benefits equal or outweigh the negatives.
Want an example? Look at the new Invocation perk, The benefits are nothing compared to the downside of being injured for the rest of the match plus up to 60 seconds in the basement, this makes the perk really unattractive.
hexes perks used to have similar rules. a hex was a perk that would lit 1 totem. it granted singular effect and the effect was lost after totem destruction. Hex:Lullaby followed by Hex:Thrill of the hunt, Hex:third seal, Devour hope, Ruin, than NOED. Hex:Haunted ground and Hex:Retribution were forgettable perks that put twist on hexes being trapped. After that, Undying, Hex:blood favor and Hex:Crowd control came along. Different rule hexes didn't exist until Hex:Plaything, Hex:Penti, Hex:face the darkness came around.
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all classes are strong for different reasons. i think medic is strong because you can heal reset mid-chase and at cages. Scout is strong because you can avoid pincer and 2vs1's by seeing killer a ahead of time with aura and utilize the environment against the killer. Iron will plays into that. escapist is strong because you can sprint burst ahead of the killer and get out of dangerous scenario's and more experienced loopers can 99% sprint burst mid-chase. Guide is strong because it punishes killer for spreading hooks and if stacked, it can do generators very quickly.
Medic & Guide are strongest for swf/coordinated play while scout+escapist are better on average for soloq play.
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@Laluzi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3840023#Comment_3840023
I strongly disagree. Nobody would reasonably consider a 1k a draw as a killer, and that's basically what a 2k is in this context.
In most of those 2k scenarios, the deaths occurred by people getting caught at the endgame. You can't rescue against two killers teamed up, and two killers are very effective at pushing people out gates and denying altruism. A few survivors being unable to be rescued in endgame does not mean the killers didn't get destroyed that game.
I also cannot agree with your proposal or reasoning on further killer nerfs and survivor buffs. Killer queues are high because 2v8 offers killers unique and long sought-after gameplay, the ability to KWF. A big part of the reason survivor population manages the 4x necessary for game balance despite being the weaker role is because the ability to play with friends was formerly exclusive to it. You would have to contort the game into something virtually unplayable for killers before that stopped appealing more than survivor gameplay, which is basically the same but faster paced and with a few neat active abilities.
Please understand that the shape of the buffs survivors have received encourage killers to tunnel them. Some might look at it as survivors finally getting to have fun after spending years suffering in solo queue. It will be… for a few days. But then every killer who's casual will have either given up or hardened up, and the remainder will be playing as scummy as possible, and then the mode will be a cesspool for everyone. This is what concerns me about this game design. It punishes the casual gameplay that made 2v8 fun last time and pushes sweaty meta. Unbreakable doesn't help this, it only encourages the problem further. You would have to give survivors powerful tunnel protection to kill the meta strat, like OTR + Shoulder The Burden, as tunneling is historically harder to effectively punish than camping or slugging.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3839887#Comment_3839887
I wholeheartedly agree with Deathslinger being undertuned? I don't think I said anywhere that he was strong. I faced a few good Deathslingers but as a character he needs buffs, he's too slow and bad at pressuring multiple survivors.
Part of the problem is that survivors become stronger once single-hooked - the unlocked Guide ability starts making gens fly even harder, which means you kind of have to focus Guides out once you get a hook on them or they spiral out of control. And I still hold to the pallet reset being problematic for punishing the weak killers more than it punishes the strong ones.
He has lack of lethality in the mode.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3839544#Comment_3839544
It is, but that's when survivors know what they're doing. Because most players on this game don't, you'll usually only feel that pressure as killer, but never as survivor, because of BHVR's genius matchmaking.
queue times for killer are 10 minutes long. accurate matchmaking is not something i'd look for in 10 minute queue times. i am happy with just playing a match.
@mecca said:
Easy solution is to allow survivors to have quick recovery and basekit unbreakable. But, this is DBD where survivors are not supposed to not have anything. Apparently BHVR still hasn't figured out how to make survivor fun and interactive.
they already have base-kit unbreakable.
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@Murgleïs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3839896#Comment_3839896
Instant gens ? Explain.
better you don't know. losing as killer in this mode feels like your losing to crutch mechanics.
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@Murgleïs said:
And I say that as a killer main btw. My reasons :
PERKS1vs4 : survivors can chose the strongest perks and combine them.
2vs8 : survivors have to make a choice between different sets of perks. They cannot cover all of their weaknesses.
COMPOSITION AS SURVIVOR
1vs4 : you just need to find 3 people to make a full SWF stack. Even with 1 friend (duo) you have a guarantee they are going to come for the save and not let you root on a hook or do stupid plays.
2vs8 : you are most likely playing with soloQ teammates that absolutely don’t care about you and will use you as meat shield if needed.
COORDINATION AS SURVIVOR1vs4 : just by reading the HUD, it is easy to coordinate for going for saves while keeping a teammates on a generator and / or keeping the killer busy. It is way easier to understand what is going on at any given time, and the state of the map : what gen have been done / pallets been used.
2vs8 : the HUD is way more busy, it is almost impossible to coordinate with your teammates to do anything, especially because they are soloQ. The match is very chaotic having 2 killers, it is hard to keep track of dead areas or what is the correct play to do next. Survivors run from killers like headless chickens everywhere or stay togeather as a herd not being efficient at all.
MATCH RESULT AS KILLER1vs4 : it feels like it matters because you probably chased or interacted with most or all of the survivors in the lobby.
2vs8 : you don’t even know who is who. They are so many, it doesn’t make much difference if 2, 3, 4 or 5 escape, it is just a bunch of survivors.For all these reasons, I think it is a good thing 2vs8 is survivor sided.
Survivors run from killers like headless chickens everywhere or stay togeather as a herd not being efficient at all.
have you seen the guide class? you stick together and do gens……. also with 8 survivors, sticking together is far less punishing gen-wise because of how much over-dose repair you get. this was true in original 2vs8 as well with the scout aura+escapist speed boosts.
are you implying that survivor classes are not strong enough? instant gens, instant heals, speed boosts and perma wall-hacks. not strong enough. next version, pick 2 classes at once.
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i prefer old system of no base-kit unbreakable and cages teleporting. especially avoiding this gen speed cage thing.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
I personally think the main issue with this is just the Guide class as a whole. The amount of Generator progression you can get in such a short amount of time is insane and should definitely be adjusted. It also does not help that the Archive Challenges for the Event require you to play the Guide so you see it a lot.
Tho if it were up to me, Id remove the Guide class altogether in favor of an item-based class so it provides incentive to do side objectives (Chests/Totems) to slow the game down and provides interesting interactions with the Killer for people who want that. To me, Guide is just a boring class, even Medic is more interesting since you can bait the Killer into a chase and then heal yourself with the +50% Total Heal Progression ability.
my early impressions is more towards spreading hooks losing matches more so than guide itself.
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@Laluzi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3839631#Comment_3839631
Huntress still has to worry about pallets being dropped on her head, even if she makes the play unsafe and survivors have to be smarter than usual to manage it, but once they're down, she often has the freedom to leave them down because they're predictable hits thereafter. Most of the pallets in these maps aren't so strong that she has to get rid of them, though different loop height/length matters. Generally I have not seen a lot of Huntresses breaking pallets in 2v8 outside of cleaning up after downs.
Also, 10 more games. One outlier and one cheater match, but largely supporting the same conclusions.
Game 18: Spirit + Deathslinger. 2K and Asylum, but that's irrelevant because someone was cheating. Many caged players that couldn't be interacted with, exit gate that couldn't be interacted with (which is how I died), a survivor inside that exit gate somehow. At one point, got unhooked and healed by someone across the map. Spirit had a stuck unhookable survivor on her shoulder that then extended the EGC indefinitely, forcing the killers to disconnect.
Game 19: Deathslinger + Trapper. 4k. Autohaven. This one kind of hurts my soul because the survivors played so badly and the Deathslinger was cracked, guy was a brilliant shot and his game sense for when to slug, when to cage, and when to pressure a nearby gen was perfect...and gates still got opened and half the team got out. Survs shouldn't have won this game.
Game 20: Deathslinger + Spirit. 5k. Red Forest. Killers played better than survivors, the two were very coordinated and often chased survivors into the other one while still playing separate games, and people went down quickly, but they didn't tunnel and that means gens got done.
Game 21: Deathslinger + Nurse. 1k. Autohaven. Killers got rolled – they coordinated pretty well at the exit gates, using Slinger to reel survivors out and 1-2 tapping them with Nurse, but otherwise just couldn't keep up with the pressure. Lots of double medic spam this game, both in groups of survivors and in chase.
Game 22: Huntress + Spirit. 0k. Asylum. Huntress tried to mass slug at the start but couldn't get enough momentum going and lost all her downs. Survivors seemed genuinely skilled this game, not just the gen speed carrying this time – the killers were skilled and had good macro sense, but survs were doing a lot of cheeky plays in chase and generally lasting a while.
Game 23: Wraith + Blight. 7k. Gates powered, but escape was through hatch. Campbell's Chapel. Wraith spent whole game pressuring cages and tunneling, which wasn't as effective as Billy doing the same, but was enough to shift momentum in their favor so that half the survivors were dead before the fight over the last gen started and they wiped up the remains quickly after that.
Game 24: Blight + Deathslinger. 0k. Coldwind. Killers spent the whole game together, which drastically reduced their map pressure, and slugged several survivors they seemingly forgot to come back to. Got a decent number of downs but just made too many suboptimal plays.
Game 25: Huntress + Deathslinger. 2k. Asylum. Liked to travel together andtag-team survivors for quick downs, but just didn't have enough map pressure – they were a slow duo on top of the usual duo problems.
Game 26: Trapper + Deathslinger. 8K, 1 gen left. Autohaven. This Trapper was a master of the art of “why the ^#@% is a trap here” and I'm embarrassed by the number I stepped into. Didn't tunnel, though 2 survivors were dead at 4 gens and that's likely what allowed pressure to shift. Overall killers just ran a much tighter ship than survivors. 3 Janes :D
Game 27: Wraith + Spirit. 8K, all gens done. Yamaoka. Wraith tunneled a few people out early and prevented uncages the whole game, but it was still a close call.
uh… my impression is that deathslinger is horribly under-tuned in this mode. he's atricious in regular mode so it makes sense for him to be even worse in a mode where maps are 2x the size but i think his games are distortion of the modes balance.
at same time, i am not bothered by each of classes being individually stronger offering a sharp advantage in the game. I think the games are hard because of the global generator speed boost per cage which makes sense considering your data on tunneling & camping cages. most of the games that i have won on slinger were early tag-teams with my companion killer and than i'd just hover around cages entire game because moving around the map was unrewarding as him.
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@Leonardo1ita said:
This:
https://youtu.be/Y9qoLa0Ew7o?si=ZpkIn3oKWRFgVdlI
If you don't ever hook survivors, they simply cannot EVER get this insanely strong unlockable ability. So... why not just start slugging all 8 survivors right?
don't hook guide players. hook everyone except guide players. it is like they get base-kit decisive strike in the form of Yui jin's fast track perk.
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h that is how dbd 2016-2017 used to be. you get to re-live the past in 2v8.
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@k3ijus said:
Its so relaxing, if i make a mistake its okay, I can always come back from it, and the escape rate is absolutely bliss for me right now, my 1000 hours, which i know isnt a lot, feels like their actually rewarding me for understanding the game and being good at loops, and not seeing my whole team die and then me based off association
Anyways, the win rates seemed to be inversed now with survivors being the 60% and killers being the 40%, seeing the past 5 discussions being on how its unfair surviviors have a natural advantage and how half the time the killers duo is trash is kind of funny.
(Not justifying the balance by the way, i know killers having it rough right now)
not exactly. you play Nurse+Blight or Billy+Blight and you win every game.
the changes heavily punished weaker killers because unlimited breakable+faster gen speed is unavoidable.
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@TonTon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3839342#Comment_3839342
Tried Slinger he really does feel like a support killer and not his own carry i wish they buff the range of the harpoon to get farther hits an extra 10 meters wouldnt be op would it?
i don't think increasing range helps. the character takes too long to down people that even when you get to an area with 2-3 survivors. you can only shoot one and injure one. he is only makes sense if you are together as killer because his 1 shot is instant down. that is why i am suggesting he gets base-kit instant down. i suspect that in V3. 2vs8, he'll get a buff.
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@Jock21 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3839267#Comment_3839267
They might add such a perk for one of the future licensed survivors to incentivize people to buy them and once they've got their sells they'll nerf it into the ground. They've already used this tactic for past broken meta perks.
maybe as innvocation perk however i am heavily disappointed that invocation perks have same negative. i thought they were all going have different negatives. i could definitely see them making an invocation perk that respawn's every pallet on the map.
that would not be a fun perk to play against. i load into gideon, hit & run for 5 minutes with no down because too many safe pallets… only for all those safe pallet to respawn 1 minute later.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
I agree with this as well. Gen's are moving at incredible speeds.
it is what i suspected. i think it is just better to slug as killer…..
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deathslinger feels very slow in the mode…. so slow that after playing him for two matches, he feels only good if you follow your teammate around for instant downs which is complete irony because system they gave him for his gun to break chain is exact opposite of what system was designed to prevent.
@Toystory3Monkey said:
Spaghetti code.
Honestly, the best thing you can do is just follow your teammate and do the exact thing this cheesy system is meant to prevent you from doing.
best killer for pair with is huntress btw bc her hatchet doesnt break the chain for you
I agree. i literally just followed a wraith entire game shooting targets, realing them in and double taping with wraith and than my other game was following huntress entire game doing same thing.
Maybe he should have iri coin base-kit… so that there is incentive to…. idk chase other people alone? a stbfl would help as well.
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agitation+3 stack of pwyf.
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@Wrecked said:
https://youtu.be/vZkSb2O0BLs?si=2Nf1_XtIm1jgNdNi
Before the Alan Wake chapter was released me and some of my friends were trying to guess what some of his perks would be and one of my ideas was for him to have the ability to restore a broken pallet as it fits perfectly with him being able to re-write stories and change reality. I assumed this wasn’t added as a perk because it was too hard to implement until I did my first match of the 2V8 mode and realised it’s a thing you can do.
It’s a shame to think we got something as niche as Deadline when we could have gotten this instead. Would you have liked to have seen this as a perk? Even if it only worked once per trial, it would have been a godsend in solo queue when you get that random Jake on your team who drops the shack pallet at 5 gens.and that is precisely why they did not add such a perk. a perk that brings back god pallets or regular safe pallets is large time sink. the reason why they're adding that in 2vs8 is because there is 2 killers. even if a there are infinity pallets, 2 killer can beat any loop. I believe the perk that is suppose revive pallets is Yui's perk. Any means neccassary. if anyone remembers, this perk used to have an enormous cooldown of 160 seconds.
I believe that original version of the perk was a pallet revive perk. not a pallet pick-up perk. after BVHR likely realized that picking up pallets is near worthless effect, they buffed Any means neccassary several times. nobody uses it since base effect is irrelevant. it has WoO effect now but WoO is better.
If BVHR removed 80% of the instant kick pallet tiles at loops, than a revive perk wouldn't be a bad idea in 1vs1. unfortunately i don't see them removing them. by concession of keeping them, they're unlikely to ever release a pallet re-build perk.
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@indieeden7 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3838923#Comment_3838923
If crouch teching is so punishing for those killers and nullifies their powers to a borderline broken degree, how on earth are Billy and Blight considered some of the best killers in the game? Surely if it's so easy to counter their powers, they should barely be getting any kills. Because it's not like people don't know about crouch teching.
other options are worse.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3839119#Comment_3839119
My second point is that Shred vs good loopers is an inffective tool, at most it drops pallets/loops.
Demogorgon is not solely about using Shred for hits, it has massive mindgaming potential and a fully charged Shred can easily zone Survivors and force hits on many loops; this is because Shred itself can definitely put in work and forcing Survivors to respect your Shreds can often result in hits.
And even still, forcing Survivors to drop pallets early or forcing them to leave the loop can often prove to be a more favorable outcome. Survivors have limited resources that they can use and forcing them to use them whereas other Killers would be forced to run around it for an extended period time is insanely good. And forcing Survivors to leave a loop can sometimes cause them to run into deadzones, areas with less resources, or put them in a position closer to teammates/Generators giving you more pressure.
Demogorgon mains (such as myself) have been getting this to work for literal years, there is nothing wrong with the current Shred timing, we dont need an addon to change it.
not if they know perfect distances. there is something else i forgot to talk about which is crouch tech. this is somewhat unfair tech if it is used at correct time but this can also make you miss hits for some unknown reason. I hardly ever get zoned by demo because they either don't know range properly or in a lot of cases, it is detrimental to attempt mindgame it. Some people say same thing about nemesis tentacle where trying mindgame tentacle strike from nemesis can be worse then not mindgaming it. sometimes best play is just to take the hit.
Survivors to leave a loop can sometimes cause them to run into deadzones, areas with less resources, or put them in a position closer to teammates/Generators giving you more pressure.
Not vs good player. going into teammates/generator is rookie error. same for pallet deadzones.
And even still, forcing Survivors to drop pallets early
survivors are not forced to drop pallets early. they're just soft-greed in such a way that if you follow them, you lose as they can do gens faster than you can break all pallets.
i think demo's strength is suppose to be that you break pallets to create deadzones and than you play hit & run with teleporting but i think his portals does not enable that kind of gameplay in an effective manner. if i had say why it fails, it is likely that the time spent portals is greater then survivor's time spent for cleansing them i.e trapper problem and the limited information at base-kit to actively use the power. the portals having to be visible for demo to gain information while not being able to hide closed portals besides first time you use them is another reason. expected teleport angle.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3839108#Comment_3839108
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3839111#Comment_3839111
This would literally kill any amount of balance that Demogorgon has.
Demogorgon's Shred timing is timed specifically to be good enough to use in many loops but enough room to react and counterplay. Reducing that time by 100% would make the reaction window small enough to where your average person cannot react in time, and would also have negative effects on Killer diversity by making Demogorgon far stronger than other Dash-related Killers. :/
when i play demogorgon, i hit like 90% of my shreds and a lot of these are max distance shreds. if i went for non-risky shreds, i'd hit 100% of them. so my first point is that if killer player is good, your very unlikely to avoid any shreds to begin with.
Demogorgon's Shred timing is timed specifically to be good enough to use in many loops
my second point is that shred vs good loopers is ineffective tool at most drop pallets/loops. the charge time of the shred allows competent survivors to perfect judge the distance between you being able to land shred and not being able to land the shred. demo vs good player is pallet break simulator.
Killer diversity by making Demogorgon far stronger than other Dash-related Killers.
Stronger than Chucky? I don't think so. Stronger than billy, maybe but it only does 1 hit-point of damage. Wesker's dash is too slow at loops and requires sliding teching to be effective. Oni's charge time dash is too slow at loops vs good players under normal turning angle restrictions. you need to use turning angle exploit to make it work at loops. The charge time at best might allow him to play more drop pallets loops without breaking the pallet but a lot of the times, your often dashing into pallets. at worst, the charge time decreases increase his total distance by allowing you to wait less time to release shred button for max distance shred.
in my personal opinion, i think coup the grace can sometimes be a better chase perk than his shred where his shred gets relegated to an ineffective pallet break perk.
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@Skittlesthehusky said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3839108#Comment_3839108
i cant tell if this comment is in a joking manner or not but please no 😂 that'd be awful
not a joke. i don't think they'll buff mediocre characters into relevancy.
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shred distance is pointless. it is better to make an add-on that reduces charge time by 100%.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
I think this would be a good testing ground for such mechanics/perks, do this more often with your limited time mode! You could learn so much from these experiments.
i mean they could test in the base mode. bill used to have a perk called No one left behind which boosts gen speed when you were last survivor left by 75%. they eventually removed this perk with the hatch perk and than added bonus back on sole survivor which also grants 75% repair speed if you are last survivor remaining. the problem is that perk does not scale. it is only 75% on last survivor and nothing else.
the perk should be 40% when 3 survivors are alive, 100% when 2 survivors are alive and 400% when 1 survivor is alive. The perk also fails to include healing speed. personally, i do not think it is good idea.
@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3838710#Comment_3838710
If the gen speeds are connected to cage states instead of survivors eliminated, then it encourages killers to really try their hardest to tunnel survivors instead of spreading cage states.
For example, 9 cage states could mean that 3 survivors have been knocked out of the game, or it could mean 0 survivors have been knocked out of the game… but the killers get equal gen speed punishment for both these scenarios.surely it won't encourage tunneling or mass slugging.
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to be fair, trapper was not exactly a good killer in original 2vs8, so he might be more relevant killer now when playing territorial.
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@SidneysBane1996 said:
They also decided we could have a catchup mechanic for gens… but then a class that BUFFS GEN REPAIR MORE THAN THE CATCHUP REDUCES IT.
I do not think this is necessary. Make it 6%.
i don't think generator buff is that good. it's 8% for 10 seconds. it will likely be least played class. i think you might just see 4 medic+4 escapist every match. what i was looking to read is what the cooldown of ultimate ability is.
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i looked at the survivor running forward and follow the survivor.
A survivor that breaks line of sight in most cases can be seen if they go left or right, so if you lose survivor, you section the parts where they could be because visibility is shown to you between them going left or right.
that is why smokebomb from halloween event were strong because it creates invisible walls where sectioning is more difficult allowing survivor to juke mid-chase in outdoor maps.
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there is already an infinity recover combo that you can give to your entire team. it's boon:exponential+tenacity. if we assume every down that killer does leaves survivor on the floor, tenacity allows you to recover while recovering from dying state. as long you have boon active anywhere on the map, your entire team can recover and pick themselves up infinitely as long killer doesn't kick boon.
the combo isn't accessible to soloq because you need your entire team to pick tenacity as a perk. soloq does have permanent anti-slug option and that perk is no mither but it also has drawback of removing your health-state.
it is only soloq doesn't have instant win anti-slug options and it is compounded by killers also being able to use knock out or remove auras on slugged survivors. Since a lot of soloq also runs aura perks like WoO and Kindred/Bond, they're perk-taxed to play the game.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3838966#Comment_3838966
I believe you are mistaking me with someone else. This is the second time I believe you tagged me because of a post regarding kill rates, but I believe I never made such post. Not bad or anything, just wanted to let you know.
Or I am completely stupid and forgot about it.
it wasn't post about kill-rates, it was post around win-rates using nightlight stats. i just don't remember exact username. it was someone with a-d as first starting letters of username. my point being is that ghostface in both data set has been lowest kill-rate for a while and when looking at individual accurate stats reported by nightlight, his kill-rate distribution is very poor. So i can only assume that he has same poor kill-rate distribution with augmented kill-rate.
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@SidneysBane1996 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3838474#Comment_3838474
But what does any of this prove? Nightlight is based on user-related stats, not on hard data of all rounds across all MMR ranges, which is what BHVR uses.
Hard data says all those Killers except Demo have a closer to 60% Killrate. Somewhere between 58-62%. They're fine. And Demo is getting a buff.Don't cherrypick based on user generated data.
the problem is that bvhr doesn't give accurate win-rate data. their last data set in feb was
Apart from Nurse and Doctor, Hillbilly got reworked. Ghostface was lowest kill-rate killer in both data set. When looking at his total kill-rate distribution in win-rate[from Nightlight], he also performs the worst. @ad19970 did a post looking at that around 1-2 months ago.
if there is going to be killer at bottom of killer-rates, they should be killer that are difficult to master with high mechanical skill-floor where the player can improve their killer skill to reach new heights. ghostface isn't one of those killers. he is not mechanically complex killer and the player often cannot improve themselves individually outshine the rest killer roaster.
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i feel like medic and repair classes require you to stack all 4 of them to gain any benefits. 4 medics+4 repair is instant gens and instant heals while 4 scout +4 escapist is permanent aura reading and speed boosts.
with current system, your heavily discourage and punished for choosing a balanced setup.
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@Caiman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3838036#Comment_3838036
Running tapes requires time. Not free.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3838071#Comment_3838071
Turning off TVs with a tape causes Condemned. Not free.
i don't think you need run tapes…. the condemn build-up of current sadako is non-existent. i don't think you'll ever reach a point where your condemn meter builds-up significant to begin with. you can grab on to a tape and holding on to it while doing a gen. 70 second is long time.
depositing tapes is more of something you do passively. it's bonus if one player does a single tape run because you can turn off 5/7 tvs instead of 3-4/7 but it is almost not neccassary.
BVHR designs a killer cantered around mori's and pick franchised related to mori's but than disapproves of its own design.
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idk, but i don't think trickster is that bad. he's kinda where huntress was pre-buff where 2-3 tweaks will make him very scary to play against.
pig needs add-on's base-kit.
@SidneysBane1996 said:
There is no such thing as F tier, LMAO. There is only S through D, and with the buffings Myers and Freddy will get pretty soon ONLY Trapper will be an actual D tier.
Ghostface is a High C to a Low B, played correctly. He does need buffs, but he's not as weak as you think.
Pig is a high C tier. She could stand buffs, but she's not as weak as you think either.
Trickster is around a Mid C to at best, low B. He's fine too. I'd argue he's a bit stronger than Ghostface. He could use a passover to make him more fun for both sides, but he's not as weak as you think.
Antiloop, map mobility, and M2 hits are not everything, my guy, and just because a KIller makes you work harder to make the most of their kit against good players doesn't make them weak. Also, B tier is balanced, far from weak. Not EVERYONE needs to be A or S to succeed, I'd actually prefer it if more Killers were designed and buffed to stay within the A-C range, no higher or lower. No Killer is "too weak to be viable", all Killers can 4k. I actually pull 4ks as Ghostie pretty regularly to the point I have to be careful to not skyrocket my MMR to the point he actually IS too weak to do anything for my personal skill level. That's not "he's too weak", that's "Survivors that know your counterplay and have more skill than you at the game."
Learn to play the Killers you think are "too weak" properly before you call anyone "F tier".
the problem is that very few play ghostface and ghostface overall is too punished for average killer player to pick up. Imagine new players buying licensed killer like ghostface and than getting demolished. that stats seem suggest that almost every single player that plays ghostface gets demolished except for very specialized killer players.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3837476#Comment_3837476
My point is that so much else is wrong with this clip that I don't even think slowdown perks would've helped that much.
We have confirmation that this was a toolbox squad, which is the major thing wrong with trying to make a broad comment about balance using this as evidence. Genrush squads are extremely unbalanced, but they're also extremely rare, teams that commit this hard to just doing gens and getting out are very uncommon and not something you'd really be considering when making a build.
Then there's all the other stuff, like this being a gimmick meme build and the gameplay including a lot of mistakes, that just compound that this particular video went the way it did because of way more factors than just "he didn't have slowdown".
sounds like classic excuse. it is what almost every player says when watching tru3 play killer. he didn't play well and lost. tru3's mostly illustrating that not using gen defence perks is "throwing" as killer. i don't think the game is suppose to be so punishing for killer that not using an archetype of perks guarantees your loss as killer.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Slightly above average Killer Main goes against a Team which really, really wants to win. This is the expceted outcome and it almost never happens. Most of the time this person wins his games quite easily (which is never talked about).
the problem is that you can't run any other perks other than gen defence. The killer needs more leeway to not have to run gen defence every game. you can literally afk as killer and you'll lose at same rate as if you were playing the game without gen defence.
this is what i mean by killer impact on playing the killer is like 0 at base-kit.
@jesterkind said:
So, I watched this whole video, but I want to highlight something that is kinda wrong with your post in a way that stands separately from the video itself: You shift the goalposts from complaints about killers running four slowdown perks, to people saying that the killer doesn't need to run any slowdown perks. Those are different statements you'd go about defending or critiquing in different ways.
When it comes to this video being presented as evidence, there's sort of two small flaws that I want to mention, on top of the obvious flaw that this is a single video so it's hard to draw sweeping conclusions from it, and then a sort of potential third thing? It's hard to tell for that, I'll get to it in a second.
The first sort of follows on from my first point. There is a gigantic difference between a balanced and competent build that just happens to not have direct gen defence in it, and what this guy's running which is a gimmick meme build all dedicated to the same thing. There's no info here, there's only one kind of chase perk here, there's nothing that plays off Xeno's strengths as a killer, there's nothing that indicates any kind of coherent gameplan beyond the meme of watching the vault be really really fast. This build may kinda suck, that doesn't speak at all to what you can achieve with other builds that just don't have direct gen defence.
The second thing to point out is that this was a horrendous start to the match, considering this dude just wanders over to main and breaks a breakable wall before pressuring anyone and even flat out ignores survivors he found. Leaving survivors alone to do generators at the start of the match is gonna result in more progression than if they didn't.
The third point is… I'm preeetty sure that all these survivors have toolboxes? It's hard to tell because we don't see the lobby and we don't see the builds at the end of the game, but this looked like a team that was really going hard on gen progression, and flat out - gen speeds in this game are balanced even if you don't bring gen defence, but toolboxes are not. If this video proves anything, then - dependent on whether they all did have toolboxes - it proves that toolboxes are unbalanced. That, or the team were just cheating, which is possible.
My take, personally, is that a lot of stuff went wrong in this particular video. It was a meme build as opposed to a good one, the start of the match was really bad, and the survivors all had a specific tool that itself is the unbalanced thing. It's hard to really draw any conclusions just from this, but it certainly doesn't disprove the notions that builds matter but don't require gen defence specifically, and that toolboxes are unbalanced.
no. the video is saying, killer should not run gen defence, run other variety perks. well here's issue. you run variety perks and you enter the game and lose. killer perks are suppose encourage certain play-style/empower the killer marginally but gen defence perks require you to run them to balance the base game.
you can't even make a tier list of perks in dbd for killer because every perk is like F, C-tier or D-tier for killer and gen defence perk that do anything for gens are like S-tier. that is what tru3 is trying to say when he says. Not using gen defence makes the game harder for you as killer, intentionally. It is like using Weaving spiders and No mither on survivor every game as survivor for every killer perk. a killer perk has to be like Old starstruck nurse-level to be relevant over gen defence with current balance of the game otherwise your running variety for sake variety to make game harder for yourself.
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i think Shoulder of burden is the type of perk that has potencial to create permanent slugging meta. This perk is forbidden perk that might get deleted in the game for being too strong/impossible to balance around. something to look out for.
if i start losing games to shoulder of burden as perk, i am 100% going to be a killer that slug every survivor, every single game with no second thoughts. slugging to what it is now mostly niche strategy may become the most main stream thing to ever exist. similar to 3 gen in the overcharge/cob/eruption meta.
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@meatballzzz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3794553#Comment_3794553
Yeah, I just hope the devs realize it is rat poison is the issue, and don't touch his basekit.
they did touch his base-kit. they nerfed his cooldown and gave him a meaningless scamper buff.
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@Firellius said:
Nah, it's more like:
Once you have healed another survivor, the perk activates. While the perk is active, you can activate it while getting healed by another survivor to become broken for 60 seconds. If you do not go down in those 60 seconds, you are healed automatically.
So it's basically like an anti-haemorrhagic syringe, except it takes 60 seconds to function. It -can- save as much time as a single heal, but it's risky.
sounds more reverse second wind. you heal yourself for healing others when someone heals you. it has higher risk than second wind because the timer is 60 second but it can be used unlimited amount of times and doesn't require you to be hooked to heal. i think both perks are pretty worthless but that just my opinion.
i'd rather just use med-kit and any of survivor perks that buff med-kit over bad healing perks.
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kinda expected that. i knew they wouldn't really improve him and only make his instant kill add-on worse. almost all of changes were focused on making his instant kills worse and they might made his base-kit also worse in process. i cannot remember the last time i ever ran out of stalk with myer's. it's not really thing. you need to not get any downs for multiple evil within 3's for that to occur. to me, it looks more like they listen to new player changes.
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bat-form cooldown is modest nerf so that is ok. hellfire didn't need any cooldown nerf but they did that because they want you to be in wolf form mode longer but his ability is a bit of binary choice between wolf form being best option for chase or hellfire being best option for chase with respect to loops. So now he's kinda worse at low walls if he misses.
the charge time reduction will be noticeable but i don't think it's quite enough to be super good. scent orb likely doesn't do a whole lot. he needed tracking changes so that there is more incentive to stay in wolf if you don't know where survivors are. right now there is lack of incentive to use his ability for tracking. there should be decision between going bat form or wolf form based off whether you have ideas where survivor are vs survivors hiding.