Deadeye
Deadeye
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@NMCKE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1174439#Comment_1174439
I don't like the Dying state change. Sounds like a "I went over to them and they didn't heal and that frustrates me" change. And you need to come with a Buckle Up change when you change this mechanic.
Yes, that's correct, that's why I'm giving constructive feedback. Many survivors, including myself, get the short end of the stick because dying survivors don't bother to recover.
Until you can give me a valid reason why you shouldn't recover 95% when you're given the opportunity to, then I believe this change is fair.
Otherwise, we can agree to disagree.
Also heavily dislike the Monstrous thing. That actually forces survivors to genrush. The 20-30 seconds is normally the time you can sit on gens before you even have to think about unhooking, this just doesn't happen most of the time because many survivors are unhook greedy. With that perk it extends the time to 60 seconds and even helps out by blocking the entity progress. Also fluffwise it doesn't make sense that the Entity blocks itself. It wants the sacrifice, so why slow it down? Third, it would be boring for hooked survivors.
This perk can be useful if survivors are nearby the hook, thinking they can sneak a saved behind your back.
You can also stack pressure because you have a survivor that needs to be saved after the Entity frees the hooked survivor. If you're fast enough, you can potentially get back to the hook before the previous hooked survivor is saved.
Also, by lore, the Entity is food aggressive — it won't let a survivor touch its dinner.
No Mither sounds good, although I guess many (or some) people would miss the original one. I guess the bonus is reverted once you are healed? Otherwise this would become a perk making people useless. Like once escaped or unhooked, crouch around the corner for the next 2 minutes until you get your bonus and then get back into action with a super buff.
The bonus reverts when you're no longer injured, which means survivors could hide in a corner until the bonus comes. However, you likely won't be able to afford to do that when the killer is hooking survivors and generators need to be completed. Could be pulled off by a SWF, but at that point, it's not the park's fault. 😁
1) Yes, then we disagree :) There are too many things in the game that simply rely on how people play, and you cannot fix kobe attempts in front of your nose, giving up struggle, or wiggling while trying to Breakout and taking hits, non recovering survivors, tbaggin and everything else on the list of "Why do people...". On the one side, I think it is not worth wasting development time on that as it is simply too much for non game breaking 'issues', on the other side, people will always find playstyles that other people dislike. Nice change by basic idea, but I simply dislike "let's disallow people to behave in a way I don't like". On the long run it is simply a never reachable goal.
Btw you didn't respond to the Buckle Up. That change makes 50% of Buckle Up pretty usesless. And while you try to improve perks and mechanics with Buckle Up being a pretty bad perk already, I would expect Buckle Up to be in the same 'episode' as your Dying State change ;)
2) This works just once, until survivors know that you have the perk. And after that, the effect that I described will happen. And as this would be bad for killers, I guess noone would run it. It would need a longer timer like 45-60 seconds to secure that you can get 2 people on hook, from hook A to hook B within 30 seconds would probably just be possible with a BBQ Billy or something like that. In any case, survivors being bored on the hook is still something people might cry about.
I might be wrong, but one thing I mentioned in other threads is, that camping is a thing as most killers can be sure that there are almost always survivors lurking for the insta unhook. Camping gets rewarded so much by many survivors. With the Ruin change, the first few weeks I had no problem. The first gen was always lost quickly, after that the game starts rolling and you still had all chances to win. But with ongoing weeks, the Ruin change somehow taught survivors the value of pressuring gens. I'm pretty sure this perk will also teach survivors to make more use of the time they have before the next hook state activates. And as killer I wouldn't push survivors to do the right thing.
EDIT: Think of Camaraderie, this perk has basically the same effect without a survivor needed around.
3) No Mither is fine then. I was just worried about another Urban Evasion promoting, with No Mither people sitting in the corner for 2 minutes to get Iron Will, Lucky Break and We'll make it for the rest of the game, first thing getting healed of course, to become the UBER David and basically secure your own survival :)
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I don't like the Dying state change. Sounds like a "I went over to them and they didn't heal and that frustrates me" change. And you need to come with a Buckle Up change when you change this mechanic.
Also heavily dislike the Monstrous thing. That actually forces survivors to genrush. The 20-30 seconds is normally the time you can sit on gens before you even have to think about unhooking, this just doesn't happen most of the time because many survivors are unhook greedy. With that perk it extends the time to 60 seconds and even helps out by blocking the entity progress. Also fluffwise it doesn't make sense that the Entity blocks itself. It wants the sacrifice, so why slow it down? Third, it would be boring for hooked survivors.
Just keep monstrous shrine as it is and make it that the survivor screams on hook every 5 seconds. Would make it a great meme perk
No Mither sounds good, although I guess many (or some) people would miss the original one. I guess the bonus is reverted once you are healed? Otherwise this would become a perk making people useless. Like once escaped or unhooked, crouch around the corner for the next 2 minutes until you get your bonus and then get back into action with a super buff.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1173284#Comment_1173284
I don't define who a "hardcore" player is based on their game play time. I like to gauge it based on how much they are invested in the game. Someone could be really into the game, but still only have enough time to play for only a couple of hours twice a week. Maybe someone generally plays more than that, but something is going on in their real life, causing them to have to play the game less than they would like to. Then there's people now during this epidemic who are playing more than they usually would. Defining hardcore and casual based on how many hours someone invests in a day has too many variables for my tastes.
Last Rift, I spent 293 hours to get to tier 70. I played only the role that had the fastest queue times at every point (which turned out to be basically a lot of killer near the end) unless I had to play a specific role to get certain challenges done.
Even with minimizing the amount of time as possible, and completing all but 4 challenges in the tome, it still took **293 hours**. If you count the 11 extra days we started with (81 days), then subtract the remaining days I had left by the time I finished, (which was only 4, so 77 days) that means I still spent 3.8 hours *a day* playing DBD dedicated solely to completing the Rift in the most efficient manner I could as possible with the lowest amount of down time. That's NOT GOOD. If I were to do the same thing again, without the extra days, I would have had to played around 4.2 hours a day (an extra 40 minutes) to keep up.
Oh, and before I forget, I also made sure to get both roles "first match of the day" EXP bonus. That extra 600 EXP everyday saved me a game or two worth of time every day.
In fact, I was pushing so hard for the Rift, that if I queued up for a match, and went to make food or something, and a match happened while I was still AFK, it would end up being an "oopsie" moment, just so I could milk EXP for shards even faster with as little idle time as possible despite being AFK.
I don't know about you, but a LOT of people, even hardcore players, do not have the time to play 3 or 4 hours a day because they have these things called jobs, and there's families, and sometimes holidays or family events roll around, sometimes life itself happens and you can't play for a number of reasons. Sometimes the game itself breaks and we can't play. The game was down for over a day during the first Rift and I played for nine hours straight the next day to make up for the "lost" day. I had to do the same thing the next two days after both Christmas Eve and Christmas itself. I had to do the same thing during Canadian Thanksgiving because that was a family event that I had to leave home for and obviously could not play that day.
Completing the first rift was ######### horrible and as someone who was only getting the free track worth of rewards, I barely got anything for it. I've still not recovered from the burnout completing the first Rift has left me.
Well, point number one: if you didn't pay anything, you didn't miss that much. No need to complete the rift, challenges are still available. You request free stuff cuz 'you deserve it' (sounds like that). I'm still saying: this is all bonus. It is for free. If you can manage to bring the effort, you get rewarded for it. If it burns you out, then goddamn stop trying. The challenges, which are supposed to be the fun thing, are not set on a deadline. Just the free rewards are.
Second: Not sure what's the difference, but when I was done with the first tome 2 weeks before deadline, I have played something around 240 hours (30 per week). I wasn't struggling, not this nor last tome. I even didn't farm most of the challenges (just a handful summarized from all tomes) and instead just played normal, using legit builds to increase challenge speed without having to throw the game (like the 15 pallets challenge o.O)
So I guess "the grind" is simply personal performance or luck. I read enough posts about people that simply struggled with some explicit challenges, searching for help in the forum. So if you don't know how to optimize or don't have the perks unlocked, you might have a hard time on some challenges. But I expected that to be mainly an issue for those players that by design of the rift weren't even meant to finish it at all.
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I would not like parallel challenges to be honest. Having killer and survivor enabled parallel would be good so you just don't forget to select one when you switch roles. I mean, the unhook, heal and repair challenges would completely be no thing at all then. Just BP thrown into the room randomly.
I agree that some of the challenges are too grindy, when you already see "if I ALWAYS get ALL totems, I'm done in 3 games, more likely is 5" or getting 5 unbroken emblems, which means, on average you neet 10 games. And there are some few challenges like "mori them all" or "hatch king" which cause bad playstyle because it either has to be farmed or needs sweaty gameplay. These shouldn't be a thing in the future tomes.
But a bit grind is fine and stuff where you can optimize with builds to get the challenge done and creates some new playstyle that doesn't throw the game is beneficial in my opinion. For example the "get 4 WGLF stacks" one. You can just farm them and run for insta unhooks with BT. I did Breakout, MoM, Dead Hard and a styptic medkit to try out the protective playstyle, which once even resulted in 2 wiggle successes and an activated MoM in endgame that secured a 4 escape in the end. These are the challenges I like the most, that make me experiment. Get 2 Phasing Hits with Spirit is not that much to play with.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1173176#Comment_1173176
I'm not asking it to be possible by people who log in once or twice a week. People who play this game several hours a day are still struggling to complete the Rift.
If the hardcore and/or dedicated players are still struggling to complete the Rift on time, then what chance does that casual player have without paying out of their ass to buy more rift tiers -- which I almost guarantee is why the grind is so high; not to actually reward the most dedicated players.
But that's exactly what I said. Casual players SHOULD not be able to finish the rift, because it is just about cosmetics and commited players should be rewarded for their playtime. And I would say I'm not on the top list of playtime, while having finished the rift 2 weeks earlier without even having all challenges collected.
When they said, they designed it around one hour daily playtime, they also said that their overall player average is at 1 hour per day. I'm not sure but would guess this is not a gauss distribution, more like there are fewer players above that average and more players being casual below (also regarding that the top steam achievement is held by <50% of all players).
My above 50-60 hours (including idle time) compared to the expected average of 28 hours is like double the time. Last tome I calculated down how early I finished and how much XP fragments (meaning gametime) I could have saved by relying on the challenges instead. And like this tome, it pretty much fits the 2 hours per day example that I described. Sure this is just me as an example, but I am playing above average with the result that I don't need all challenges to finish the rift. And rough calculation shows that 2 hours per day is sufficient in my case.
I don't know what you define as hardcore player and who with 15+ hours a week struggles to finish the rift. @ZoneDymo said he was at 3 hours per day, which is 50% over minimum and he also has finished the rift at least one week before deadline with most of level 4 being still open. If you define the average as hardcore already, then of course you can call it "HC players struggle" because the average is what it is designed around to reach tier 70 just in time.
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I finished the rift with a lot of master challenges left open but finished because I wanted to save the extra BP for the new DLC (which of course also kept the rift fragments). I think I reached tier 70 with maybe a third of level 4 finished and like 6-8 master challenges still to collect. And that was about a week ago, so 2 weeks before the rift closes.
Average playtime over the rift was always about 50-60 hours per 2 weeks (as per steam stats) but that also contains idle time and everything else. I play daily, sometimes just the two minimum games to get extra XP for first killer / survivor game, sometimes 4-6 games and on weekend more, to get to the 60 hours :)
Mixed, I think the bigger part is solo.
@Sairek @wichael_wyers The one hour thing was based on pure playtime, and there was a huge thread about calculating all the stuff which turned out to be correct. The thing is, you get capped XP per match which is at 10 minutes = 600 XP. And that means, their "1 hour per day" is like 6 matches with exactly 10 minutes per game. And that is not containing queue times and spending bloodpoints / equipping builds etc. 2 hours is actually more realistic and seriously enough to get the rift done in time. Or simpler: 6 games per day (or taking new ruin into account, probably 7 games per day). Only requirement: you need to play at least one survivor and one killer game with these 6 games to get the bonus XP each day, and you need to finish all challenges within that 6 games per day. While level 1 and 2 is definitely possible with these restrictions, level 3 and 4 can be tough. Basically with around 20 challenges and 3 weeks of time, you need to finish one challenge per day within 6 games. Mostly you can do 2 challenges, but 12 gens simply needs at least 3 games and 5 golden unbroken emblems (or 5 escapes) needs at least five games, more likely 7-8. These challenges are a bit hard to deal with. Also 4 unhooks in one game is quite hard as there are only 6 unhooks possible for a single survivor. You need to talk in chat to make sure unhooking is your part. But for level 3 and 4 there are also at least 4-5 challenges that are almost assured to be done within one game, and I think, ignoring the fact that you need DLCs for some challenges (although they put the perks on the shrine and all characters were available for shards) it is possible to get the rift in time. On average, it is simply 1 rift per day, meaning 10 fragments within 6 games + the one or two challenges you finish. 6 games with daily bonus XP give you about 3600 XP which is 4,5 fragments. So one master challenge or 2 normal challenges a day is enough, and dont forget the free rift after each epilogue.
And as additional note: The archives are available all the time, also after the rift closes. The BP and fluff is not lost. Challenges can be done at every time. It is just about the rift, that gives you a bunch of cosmetics, and this also doesn't force you to buy the premium pass. I think it is fair to say, people that play this game so much get a bit more reward from the rift, in giving back auric cells and unlocking the whole rift. You also have the possibility to purchase the premium pass on last day, when you know what you will get, how many auric cells are restored and how much content you get for your money. And I think it would be unfair to design the rift around people who log in once or twice a week, letting the commited players finish a complete level in like half a week, and then waiting 2 and a half weeks for the next level to unlock.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1173004#Comment_1173004
It’s not hard with Breakout, and the moment the auras are revealed I can see exactly which hook the killers is predictably going to go towards. And hook sabo is considerably faster than 2.5 seconds with Alex’s Toolbox + Hacksaw. It’s almost instantaneous. The moment I’ve broken it, i’m Immediately running to the next nearest hook.
Yes, this has worked 90% of the time for me. The only time it doesn’t work is when I’m simply too far away from the downed survivor. Any other time I’m sprinting right towards them the moment they hit the ground.
Would like to see that. What if the killer doesnt go into your direction? He has normally 3 hooks in range. You still need to stand beneath the killer to be faster. Or he still needs to head towards you otherwise with that 0.32m/s advantage, you will not be able to gain distance enough to get past the killer and to the hook, 1 second earlier to finish the sabo. Body blocking the killer is already hard enough if you are beside the killer, you need to cut corners or he can body block you. And I doubt that you stand at the right hook 90% of the time
EDIT: Just saw the Breakout, which gives 7% bonus. But it is still hard to imagine that it is 90%. If this is true, I would 1) see that way more often and 2) the game would be unplayable. On PTB there were Monto, Puppers and 2 others doing a coordinated sabo squad, and they are not the worst survivors around. They died like 80% of the time
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@Elena @inferjus Btw You actually COULD say that disappointment is a factor for nominating the worst DLC. Because it still is a subjective opinion. If a chapter is hyped that much because it presents one of the most iconic killers in the game, and then you get like 20% of what you expected, it can ruin everything. Like, Diablo 4 was announced. This is a huge series and they need to release some great stuff here. If it is "just" one of the better action RPGs, it will be called a flop.
Btw I would also call GF the worst chapter so far. Not by content, but by bugs. The PTB was the most screwed up one. With stuff like "Wake Up speeds up EVERYTHING like repair, vault, search, from THE BEGINNING of the game". Regarding the Deathslinger: I love the whole design about it, killer and map. Survivor is not my favourite but I don't think she's that bad as many say here. And the killer has low map pressure but is pretty strong on almost every loop that is not a complete LOS blocker. Most loops even don't have enough obstacles to break the chain, you can still simply walk around it after spearing as they are too short to break the chain in time. And some loops are too low to even break the chain. You shoot above it and have like 10 seconds to walk around. @Thatbrownmonster not sure about your map description, there is only that one region behind the gallows that are in the open, and that is pretty fine. The rest is full of houses, kinda like Haddonfield, but with less windows, which is also fine.
@Demogordon_Ramsay "At least on Ormond, you can actually see" I wanna counter that one. Ormond is probably the most survivor sided map in the game because it is huge and there is one safe loop next to another. And from killer side, you might have problems looking through the bamboo, but on Ormond you have problems reading auras. They fixed it for survivors (yellow auras), but red is still bad. Scratch marks are super hard to read and sometimes I need to face a dark wall closely, to take a look where my totem is.
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@Wylesong said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1172897#Comment_1172897
TY! I love your response! I agree 100%!!!!
People(killers) judge based off one game out off 200. Then if you point out the fact it only happened once then the argument becomes, "Well the fact is it could happen".
I guess if anything CAN happen then it should just be taken out of the game by that logic. I mean in that case take out NOED because my team COULD miss a totem or take out BT because a survivor could rescue my hooked survivor and they COULD get away. lol
@Aven_Fallen Do you have stats about that? XD Let's do a test with that. Pretty sure it will not be "killer sided". I would bet my money on "both sided". During Ruin rework I saw an equal amount of killers complaining about gen rush as I see now survivors complaining about NOED. And the yelling about Deathslinger being super weak is the same as how OP he is in chases. No need to point at anyone, both sides can be pretty niggling
@DudeDelicious Just can't believe the 90%. That would just work if you stand right beneath the killer while he is picking up. When he starts walking, he needs to walk towards you or you won't be able to get to the hook 2.5 sec faster than the killer. And when he starts walking towards you and sees you, he normally has enough time to go for another hook. As solo this normally only works out if the killer needs to walk towards you and doesn't see you, so you can sabo the hook short before he reaches the hook, because THEN he already spent some time and needs to get to the NEXT hook which has a minimum distance. While standing in the middle of hooks, he has enough time to choose a direction
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I prefer Detectives Hunch when I use Inner Strength, because it shows me directly where totems are and doesn't waste so much time to "scan" for totems. I normally try to find an easy first totem near me or my first gen if it is in sight, to activate Inner Strength, and then always "one gen, one totem" to get to 0 totems until endgame and have enough "resources" left to activate Inner Strength.
Especially on newer maps (I have NO freakin idea on new Lery's and Saloon where the totem spots are) I like Hunch to learn totem spots. Once you are familiar with them, Small Game might work better.
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@Mandy said:
It's in the patch notes, this is the ping indicator that's shown in game, if something happens with the ping.
What means "something"? Going worse? Package loss?
Btw is there any full description available on all status icons/hud? For example when you succeed your first skill check on a gen, there is some icon with 2 arrows/triangles showing up, but I think this is not doing or meaning anything. Can't remember if I ever saw that explained on any wiki.
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https://deadbydaylight.gamepedia.com/Toolboxes#Patch_3.6.0
Look at the botton of that page, there are two tables containing old and new toolboxes overall speed on a gen. For example, the brown toolbox was weak before nerf already. It saved 7,3 seconds of speed, while having to sit on the gen for 73 seconds. Now you can get just 5,4 seconds saved (2 seconds less than before) but also just have to use it for 10 seconds to get the reduction. Commodius toolbox has the same speed boost regarding a whole gen, but just lasts for half a gen, not for 2 and a half.
@NursesBootie @MPUK The Engineers toolbox is almost the same as a BNP. BNP gives you 15-25% progression within 5 seconds depending if you hit the skillchecks. An engineers toolbox with double speed addons takes about 6 seconds for 20% progress without skillchecks necessary (With +12 charges instead of the smaller speed addon, you get 35% in 11,2 seconds)
@Almo do you have any numbers on sabotage charges and consumption for toolboxes? It seems they are a bit inconsistent. At least in the PTB I had a yellow toolbox with Spool Wire (20+12=32 charges) last for a bit over 6 hooks and a commodius (32 charges) lasted for exactly 5 hooks. I would really like to know if charge addons are worth it whe I go for sabotage, without first wasting items and addons to take notes for every case :/ I have read something about increased consumption during sabotage, but there is nothing written in the toolbox description ingame
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Iri heads might already be alright when they just add a "does not stack" to the number of hatchets, Making the belt useless. Then you don't have the snowball campy playstyle anymore and it actually requires some skill as you are not allowed to miss anymore
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There are a lot of problems caused by latency. Grabs cancelled, getting grabbed off a gen or totem that got finished / cleansed, survivors jumping over windows after they got shocked, strange behavior with hitboxes, getting downed while using dead hard and still get exhaustion...
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I also think that many people don't really mean it when they say "I'm gonna uninstall". It is more like a threat of "loosing paying customers" to force a reaction. Which simply doesn't work. I have seen a lot of threads trying to argue like that, basically saying "do what I want or you never get my money anymore".
Really depends on the thread, but as I noticed, this is the majority. If it is just basic frustration because of some elements in the game and not an overall game hate, this is something different. There are some trolls and there will always be, but mostly there are more positive responses. Surely also like "you haven't played the new killer enough to make a judgement" (which is true in some cases) but also suggestions and tips.
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I actually have seen quite some Zarinas out there (PC), more often none than 2 in one game, but on average I would say every at least second game I see one. When I have the shards ready, I will also just play her for the adept, because I already have 4 survivors on P3 maxxed out, Yui on her way to be number 5. So There are simply a lot of survivors that don't get my attention because I simply can switch between a handful other survivors that are full of perks and items.
Just wondering myself how I came to 4 maxxed survivors, while I only have two maxxed killers and one of them being P1 :P I never want to waste the good addons before prestige up, and as survivors are just cosmetics all having the same items, it is easier to throw away some green medkits than some coxcomb clappers or Amandas letters ^^
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@Haku said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1166174#Comment_1166174
No I'll return it back to you. I want you to quote me the exact words where I told you how to play the game. I doubt you'd be able to do that because I never said anything like that. Saying camping is not fun does not equal "I told you how to play" . I don't know if it is a language barrier or something else but you are way way off ...
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1166163#Comment_1166163
The situation you described is very common even if the survivors don't actually want to commit for the hooked person. I can give you million reasons why there can be other survivors around the one who just got hooked. From a simple one like the new map that is so small and gens are so close to each other that you have quite a big chance to be close to the killer to - you just never got the time to leave vs insta saw Billy. The fact there is someone around it does not mean he wants to unhook him right away. Problem is even if you don't see anyone around you, the moment killers don't see anyone with BBQ either they often get paranoid and they never leave the hook. Then they claim how they heard someone around. I had such game yesterday where my entire team was outside the killer range he hooked me and yet he stays around for more then 20-30ish seconds checking everywhere. By that time ofc the surviviors will come to unhook me but he had plenty of time to leave. There was nobody. Now the opposite where there is someone around - well most killers don't commit even if they see another survivor. They don't care they have other survivors around them which means gens are not done. All they care is that hooked person which makes is extremely boring for that person on the hook. And yet if they are really not that smart/the survivors/ and don't run away that person on the hook is dead. But what can a solo players do? You can't chose who you play with and you def can't force the killer to leave in any way on your own. It has to be someone else. I have ran million times away from a camper making noise with a locker from a far so he can join me. I give him target - myself. But that never helps. If he has decided he will camp that person is never getting unhooked even if I am the only person alive besides the one on the hook
And just for the record seeing the killer for 1-2 seconds around the hook does not mean anything. You need a lot more time to tell if he is really camping or looking for someone that is around. So the time lost is much higher number than your calculations. That logic where doing gens has more value and you expect your teammates to be faster there so you don't really bother going for the hook and instead you consider either camping or a bad team is really vague. I mean that is why genrush as a word exsist because people like you actually defend doing gens as a top prior over saving people and here I though you were defending the killer side :) I can tell you 99% of the time at the end of such a round the moment you ask the killer why he camps he will say - why you genrush question mark.... But you just told me to do that....
I did answer you to 2/ that I never told you how to play as a killer. I just don't understand how saying something is not fun on a feedback forum is remotely close to telling you how to play as a killer. And I don't have to claim anything. Everyone is free to play whatever/however they want unless it is forbidden. And also everyone is free to share their experience here. As a result you can can see that many threads here are about campers/tunnelers. I have never seen anything reported here about my playstyle as a killer just because I don't play that way and I prefer the weaker killers like Wraith,Myers so I feel pretty fine the way I play. I actually had people saying they enjoyed my silent bing bong even though they were pretty bad /low ranks/ and got all killed ... I literally say how sorry I am by using Mori after games just because I have to do a challenge...
The scenarios you bring up might be a case, but it doesn't change anything on the fact that the average unhooking time is about 10 seconds. And that is at least one of the reasons why killers get paranoid.
You see people randomly close to the hook, I see people jumping off a gen the second someone gets downed. Btw giving target from a far doesn't help because that is a lost chase. He needs to take 10 seconds to get close while you already start running when you see him from a distance. Making noise from a distance is the typical SWF note to the killer that "there is someone right behind you that wants the unhook, so come here that I can trigger my BL". That's why no killer takes this "opportunity". If you want the attention, give him a chance to hit you, not to chase you.
Not sure about your experience, but I see camping that I give up on about 1-2 times a week, when I go for the unhook and decide to let go. Mostly you can see it from a distance what's going on, especially if you already see another tbaggin survivor around. If I see that, I normally at least get one gen done, most of the times already sitting on the next one. And as survivor I don't call the killer camper if I didn't see him doing so, and I don't call out for gen rush until I see 2 BNPs and Prove Thyself. Me sitting on a gen without having pressure for 80 seconds is no gen rushing. I wouldn't blame the survivor but the game when gens go too fast.
Btw I am still defeinding the killer side. In my doc example the streamer was sitting on a gen and 3 were around the hook. Same situation with me being too far away. Still 3 survivors not working on gens, which is normally not that easy to achieve. Means you have at least 5-6 minutes having fun with the hook exchanges before you need to take care of that one person doing gens. And if you get one kill during that time it makes it even easier.
And I can't find where you were talking about killer play. I just found "Let the killer camp = shitshow" which means you want to tell killers to not camp. And the thread title is camping penalties. That is equal to setting rules for playing behavior. There are enough perks to deal with a lot of situations, but you prefer your own build, expecting the game to handle the rest for you. That's what I read from your comments.
What I'm trying to say is, there are ways to work around it. Less insta unhooks = less camping. "Punishing" killer behaviour by doing gens or bringing the right perks, not by "give back all these bloodpoints and pips!". Or simply just don't give a F and hop onto the next game. If you are the one on the hook, typically flap your arms to tell "the killer is camping, do gens". Was quite a common way of communication about 1 or 2 years ago. Maybe unfun, but instead of self sacrifice, give the team the time to work on gens. But that is not the way most people play this game. It is just for your own personal fun, and if that is not given, people throw the game. Causing a lot of follow-up frustration. Like got tbagged? Next team gets a Mori. Got camped? Next killer gets flashlight, OoO and Dstrike. Or what I described, that killers just get used to camp because it pays out, or get used to slug because everyone runs DS. All in all you will never be able to set up a "rule system" that makes everyone play in a way that everyone has maximum fun
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@Haku said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1165809#Comment_1165809
You need at least kindred to notice camping in time as solos. There is no oither way around. One person will go near the hook and see the killer camping. If that is not me I'll wait a bit more and I'll start running too assuming noone else is runing for him to save him. As a solo you don't know where everyone else is. And then you will see the killer camping but you ran already from the other side of the swamps/or another big map/ . You have to run back to that gen you started but that time you spent running is already lost. Also your doc example explained how boring camping is. You have to remember in solo games you cannot control your teammates. So they can do that every time you play and you can't prevent it. I don't see what good that brings to the game ? Letting the killer camp just sounds so terrible. I guess that is the new moto of the game. Let he killers camp. What a shitshow this game has become
You somehow don't refer to what I've said. What should the killer do? Just leave and wave the survivors "have fun"? I think it was not really boring for the doc, he had another chase within 10 seconds. Why should the killer be penalized if the survivors do stupid play? As I said, camping would be less of a problem if survivors wouldn't be camping hooks as well.
And regarding the "identify camping" thing. Yep, may happen. But hom much does it cost you? 20 seconds? In 20 seconds you can get 40m away and back. And iof you lose 20 seconds on a gen, you still have 100 seconds left to work on gens, before the person dies. And if I am across the whole map and need 30 seconds to get there, I don't even go there because I expect others to be quicker. If they don't unhook, I expect a potato team or camping. Both means, working on gens has more value. Might be bad for that one guy on the hook, but I think he will not blame the one yellow pixel far far away if he dies on the hook.
And you didn't mention something about my response to 2) you cannot say "I play how I want" and claim that behavior for yourself. Everyone paid for that game and can say so. How about giving half of the unhook points to survivors if they unhook within 10 seconds? Would reward time efficient play.
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@Haku said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1165053#Comment_1165053
1/ He lose bullshit. Don't make me make you a video with killer ending with 30k points after camping a person for the full duration of his hook
2/ I don't want camping killers to decide my perks. I paid for this game and I want to play what I want . Who are you to tell me what I want to play ? Exactly you are nobody
3/ Look at 2
4/Good SFW will be able to do that. 4 Solo will do nothing because they don't have coordination. They are not supposed to. Also as the that person said that is just so boring. Do you know what boring means ?
Please don't tell random people how to have fun in the game and say things like "understand the game" when you clearly don't understand the core of gaming which is having fun. That is your problem if you are okay to play like this not his
2) Who are you to tell the killer how he should play? You got the game, you got the players you have to play with / against and you got the tools to deal with it. Use them or eat it.
4) You don't need super efficient SWF to notice a camping killer. SWF is just faster in spreading the information.
From what I have seen over the years is that most survivors simply reward camping. Unhook greedy and some strange need to deny "bad killers" every kill possible. Resulting in throwing the game rather than just letting the killer camp and do nothing. Just saw a stream against a doc, one of them said "he's camping, ah now he even checks the lockers" and then used a Blast, finding 2 survivors near the hook. Stream buddy said "old camper, and against Blast I can't do anything." The doc did it completely right. As most survivors play like this, killers can almost expect that someone is around. The doc saw his ability is ready, checked close lockers to make sure the Blast isn't countered and found 2 survivors. Best map pressure you can get. One on the hook and knowing that at least 2 survivors are not on gens. Just protect the hook until you get the chance to down the next survivor. And that often results in double downs, which stalls the game even more.
If less people would just force the killers to go patrolling by doing gens for at least 20 seconds (!) before they rush to the unhook, they would be less confident in finding people around the hook. And that would lead to less camping (after some weeks at least). And that would also lead to higher punishment to the killers who still camp
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@Luyda21 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1161614#Comment_1161614
I don't laugh at them, I laugh at what some say...
It's not that I don't like skins, it's that they seem like a .... for me...
They finance his Devs with DLCs. That they could remove fewer skins and fix more bugs in the game...
This discussion is not worth it anymore, most of you are Devs and you all agree...
I have no problem with why you don't like cosmetics. I just think it is wrong that "noone buys it" because you see plenty of them used in the game.
I agree that they should target more bugs. But I didn't buy the last DLC, I took shards to unlock the killer. So no money for that DLC from me. I would like to see numbers, but taking into account that only every three months there is a DLC compared to the number of cosmetics coming out more frequently, I would guess that the main income of this game is cosmetics.
And I don't get your last line. Which devs? Who agrees? In this thread everyone disagreed on increasing bloodpoints for the premium pass.
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If they are basekit on death hook and remove the possibility to kill someone early, it would need to count as a hook. Regarding emblem progress and also triggering Pop or BBQ. But in the current key-vs-mori state, I would not change anything. There is a bit of rework necessary. And hopefully that comes in one step, and not in wreck-ruin and some weeks later nerf-toolboxes steps
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That would also steal the chance of the last survivor to crawl away so the killer can't find him and get to the hatch, or let the killer find the hatch and get up with Adrenaline. I know, rare happenings, but with removing the one you always remove something else as well. Hard to find solutions that fits everything
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@NullEXE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1162054#Comment_1162054
And their wrong. The most that Killer perks do is balance the game for how broken the role is, most Killers even require add-ons just to be balanced against survivors who only run 1 perk. If you watch streamers and some of the best players you would see what I'm talking about. If you played Killer at all you would see what i'm talking about. Also telling players to "take a break" is just as toxic. The game should be fixed, not force people to play a bully simulator and we have to stop ignoring the problem.
If you rely on streamers to build your opinion, I can suggest FunGoose. He plays all killers and without addons because he thinks addons make killers too strong. He just recently ended a series of 100+ 4k games in a row. Just to expand your horizon a bit
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@toxicmegg said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1162025#Comment_1162025
then you successfully ran him around and get rewarded for the whole match you just played.
Or you just crouched around like a potato or hanging on the hook flapping your arms, getting carried by the team.
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@RakimSockem said:
Well the term "second chance perks" is dumb to begin with for survivors. It's a stupid way to describe a perk that allows you to do something if certain conditions are met. (BT within killer terror radius, Unbreakable ONCE when slugged, d-strike if you get downed within 60 seconds of your last unhooking, Dead Hard when you are injured and causes exhaustion)
But if we're going to go along those lines of perks that allow you to do things when conditions are met as "second chance perks", killers have:
the obvious NOED
Make Your Choice - go away from a hook, wait for unhook, go back and pick any of the two people there for an insta-down (most effective on Nurse, cloaked Wraith, Spirit, Billy)
Devour Hope - Just play the game and if the totem isn't found, you get insta-downs after 3 people get unhooked, Moris after 5.
Rancor - you couldn't (or in some cases intentionally didn't) kill this person the whole game, but now if you find them when the gens are done, they're an insta kill.
Spirit Fury - hey, you've broken enough pallets that you can just take the next one to the face and keep moving for a basically guaranteed hit (especially if combined with Enduring)
I wouldn't say just "when conditions are met". The killer perks you listed all require half the game to be set up, the survivor perks you listed just require "you got caught". "Causes exhaustion" is not really a condition. And Spirit Fury doens't really give you a free hit. You have to combine it with Enduring, eating half of your perks for an effect that happens mostly 3 or less times during a game. Survivor exhaustion perks happen 3 or more times if the survivor doesn't screw up.
I think the only perks you can really call a second chance is Rancor and NOED if at all. Rancor because it gives you a free kill. NOED is not in the killer's duty, he doesn't need to work for it to activate, survivors need to work for it to not activate. If the killer didn't manage to get "enough" kills during the early/midgame, he gets a chance to get easier kills during endgame. Although it is not really a second chance, as he still needs to chase. If the persons he chases are injured, he just has the 4% speed bonus, which is not really a "second chance"
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I didn't see sabos so far, maybe just one or two tries. Toolboxes have limited use, I think the brown and yellow ones just have 3-4 uses and sometimes you need to sabo two hooks to deny the hooking. I think from the current rate, it is quite ok, because it is rare. And when you hit someone while sabotaging, he can only restart with toolboxes (perk would be on cooldown, so this is a high risk), but the charges are gone, stealing you one possible chance to sabo.
The only thing I'm really afraid of is organized sabo squads. Combining the perk and toolboxes to use the perk whenever it is ready and toolbox in the meantime would kinda give infinite sabos (at least for the duration of one match). And if the two closest (maybe with Bond or Empathy) get organized to go for the sabos while the last one still keeps pushing gens, this could make it almost impossible to hook someone.
I just saw a streamer team going for sabo + No Mither for 2 days, and got killed most of the time. But probably No Mither isn't the best perk to "abuse" the new sabo. It will definitely be an annoying game.
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@mouse0270 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1161522#Comment_1161522
If you make it so breaking free doesn't injure you, you better remove that 4 second stun from breaking free as well. Otherwise I am getting a DS punishment for using my power with no benefit, you would basically cause people to stop playing him all together.
I said the same about Legion and his double hit in Frenzy. Works with button addons but one of these effects should be basekit.
To Deathslinger, I'm really not sure if I can judge him correctly. On PTB he seemed pretty weak, after some weeks now I notice how strong he is. The ability to quickshot and pull survivors like 10m through windows gives him a lot of power. And with MnA and STBFL, which are quite meta on him, he can end chases probably faster than Nurse or Spirit. If someone can aim, chases are really no fun.
And "dodge" is the wrong word. You can make it harder to hit, like against Spirit or Nurse, but it depends totally on the killer. Someone said "same projectile speed like Huntress, so it is dodgeable". 40m/s on a (max) 18m distance is less than 0.5 seconds to "react" (and most cases you have about half the time). While survivors are pretty sluggish in their movement, you cannot react, you have to predict. You also don't dodge the Demogorgon Shred, you fake windows or try to time right with his audio cue (which Deathslinger doesn't have), and Shred is at 18m/s.
I think we need more time to find out when to take a hit, when to drop pallets and which loops are "safe" or mindgameable against him. At the moment, it is really hard to escape him. And I'm pretty sure that most of the people that say "looped him the whole game, he is fine" just had mostly luck. I would like to see videos of that. You cannot run looking backwards all the time during a chase.
I have to wait and play more games to find out how well he does when chases end quickly, Dead Mans Switch with Nemesis might assist pretty well I guess. But what he definitely could use to allow any kind of counterplay is an audio cue when he starts aiming and the same minimum "charge time" like Shred for example.
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@Luyda21 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1157667#Comment_1157667
Having more perks and more addons in less time is pay to win ?? Hahaha, what is the use of having those perks and those addons if you do not know how to loop a killer and you last in the chase 15 seconds like all the survivors do, they only repair gens = gen rushers...
Not very nice to laugh at people who disagree with you.
And quite brave to claim "almost nobody buys it because people don't want to pay for skins". I'd guess that only YOU don't like cosmetics. As more than half of their DLC content can be bought with shards for no money, and they are definitely not working for free, I would be wondering how they finance their developers over 3 years when noone buys skins. I'm also pretty sure that the vastly higher amount of characters in my games have non-default cosmetics.
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@Inji said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/137631/maps-you-want
Personally really into ocean things so a cruise ship could be amazing for a map. I think it will add to DbD's aesthetic. Especially if it has a matching killer (A captain or a crew member)
I would love a beach themed map. You can have sand dunes, beach chairs and beach umbrella's as LoS blockers and wood debris as loops or even a beach hut for the shack.
Pirate Killer was already on the wishlist for some time now ;P
@BigBrainMegMain said:
A 3 tier Zombie Apocalypse underground map.
Where as the match progresses, everyone HAS TO move to another set of the map not opened yet by the gates.
You do 2 gens, the next tier opens, 4 gens the next tier opens and you have to do 1 more gen to get to the bunker.
Match ends when killer kills all 4 or they escape to the safety of the Bunker.
This would actually be also a great way to control map size, regarding gen control
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Many? None from those I'm watching . The only I know about is Noob3 who played like 14 hours per day, so it has other reasons, everyone would be burnt out with such a schedule.
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@Jigsaw_pprentice1993 said:
chases the game is not in a bad spot i mainly play pig my setup is brutal strength moniter sloppy nurses with no add ons for most games at rank 1
but to answer outplaying survivors good chases and making good use of my power
the one thing i hate is a lot of killers will say if i cant 4k every game the game is survivor sided wich is untrue
To be honest I have never seen a comment like that. If you find a thread/comment, pls let me know. The only thing I noticed is others claiming that killers expect common 4k's
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@johnmwarner said:
You aren’t kidding, just to put it in perspective before deathslinger release I had ALL perks on all my killers and three survivors. I had capped 1 million blood, plus dailies, plus rift challenges unturned in, plus I bought morning and evening from shrine...
My slinger still doesn’t have all perks, only 3 killers have his teachable, my Karina is barely 40 and only 1 survivor has her perks. I was as prepared as possible and am still struggling, I can’t imagine a new player who didn’t know all the possible prep tricks
OMG you haven't maxxed out all your characters within a week?
There is totally no need to have every character maxxed, especially not every survivor and on top you don't need to have every character on P3. This is a pure cosmetic thing from the first days when you didn't have cosmetics at all, prestige is for people who play a lot.
I'm quite happy that you face different things than just slowdown Legion, Infectious Fright + BBQ Onis and Billys, MnA + STBFL Cowboys and all the other default braindead builds.
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Easiest would be slowdown. Thanatophobia, Sloppy Butcher. Probably Dying Light or something to track like BBQ, Discordance or Surveillance.
If you don't want to have all DLCs I would highly recommend to just purchase License chapters. Everything you can buy with Iridiscent shards, don't spend money on it.
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EDIT: THIS IS OFFTOPIC BTW
@emptyCups He basically says that the one patch for matchmaking he is referencing might have caused bad queue times. Red Rank killers expected in rainbow and pure redrank matches, pulling less experienced killers to red rank players because the miss of enough red rank killers, allowing "potatoes" to rank up because killers struggle against the red ranks and shaking up the system even more
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1DNS_alCtQ&t=302sAn important part that might assist this logic is, that red rank survivors have long queue times but not red rank killers, on the other side low rank killers have even higher queue times than red rank survivors
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@emptyCups said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1156451#Comment_1156451
I'd like that in game. Like how cod does how many players in tdm vs ctf so you know what the wait is like. As long as killers are 1/4 what the survivors are it should be instant... but given how long ques are I'd say it's more like 1/100th NOONE wants to play killer rn
Killer/Survivor ratio isn't necessarily that bad. Having too many red rank survivors compared to red rank killers would be sufficient with the current matchmaking. Have you seen Tofus video on that topic?
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@Cheeki_Beaky_Bird said:
These charts make no sense to me, the numbers seem impossible.
Trapper, Ghost Face, Oni, and Hag NEVER get 3 kills, but sometimes get 4?
Pig and Clown NEVER get 4 kills?
And why are so many numbers rounded off?
Hag and Pig were recorded 5 and 6 games (~2%). So in that range everything is possible. And I think especially on hag it is possible that she gets more 4k than 3k. If she manages to get the 3k, the last one has probably less chances to escape because of the traps. Crouch around to not trigger random traps helps Hag finding the hatch first. Or trigger traps and get downed. Same on gates. Place 3 traps spread and you need to crouch too long to the switch. Enough time to travel between gates
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@BarneyRooster18 said:
I'd rather see a stat of how many people even play killer after the ruin change.
I would also totally be interested in stats like, how many red rank killers exist, how many purple rank killers exist... and same for survivors. I think these numbers are a mess at the moment, causing the queue times
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Ehm... proof? You never got in touch with anything scientific-ish stuff, right?
Currently I would say breakable walls are just and only good for this what @SenzuDuck posted. Fix god loops for map balance. It is quicker than reworking the whole map, just pick the ones that are well known to be imbalanced. Would be also a bit strange if you just have one or two breakable walls per map thou.
But On the new map I strongly dislike the design. Using breakable walls "for more flexibility" or whatever doesn't make sense. On the new map it currently just gives the killer more overhead, because there are some loops you don't even need to chase through if the wall is still up. If you have the choice to say, let's try it or let's go for the wall, it is fine. But the saloon and some of the open (not house) loops are simply time waste
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@FichteHiro said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1156249#Comment_1156249
That's true, some Survivors really rush towards the unhook. That's why people get farmed sometimes.
That's also in my opinion quite a huge reason, why camping is a problem at all. As killer you can be sure that someone is around. You could argue with "pressure gens", but you also pressure gens when you have 2 people down, especially when you don't run something like Pop or new Ruin. Someone need to come for help, and if you get into chase with him as well, noone will be doing gens at that moment. If someone is, 2 other are dying
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@LetsPlayTogether said:
Tool boxes now feel entirely useless. No benefit to repairing and no benefit for sabo unless you run an entire sabo build with your friends. Dont know why to have them in game anymore, just waste of bloodpoints.
They feel useless, but they arent. Take a look at this
https://deadbydaylight.gamepedia.com/Toolboxes#Patch_3.6.0The tables in repair speed and history show a comparison how long you need to repair a gen. The lower toolboxes have changes of 2-4 seconds you need longer, the commodius is now even the same speed bonus, just that you cannot use it on almost three gens. The engineers toolbox with double speed addons is now pretty much the same as a BNP, just without skillchecks.
Overall speed got a bit nerfed, the main difference is, that you now can decide when you need a speed boost, instead of using the toolbox all the time. If you start a gen using up your toolbox and then the killer comes by with pop, you wasted the toolbox. If you are at 80% and the killer picks up someone right beneath you, use the toolbox and deny the pop. That is surely not useless.
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I think Dead Hard has a far less potential to strech a chase like that compared to Lithe or BL. Dead Hard mostly allows you to manage one more loop on a pallet, which is max 5 seconds. And if you use dead hard before a window or get the speed bost after a window... I'd say the speed boost after the vault is better, because it gives you way more distance to run past 1 or 2 more loops before you need to mindgame again. With Dead Hard the killer can probably mindgame on the window you just have taken, without following you to the next one.
Also, without servers latency, it would NOT never have a problem. You might not get downed with exhaustion, but you still need the timing if you want to make the killer swing and that is in my opinion the most difficult exhaustion perk to use. With Lithe you just need to press a button as well and with BL you don't need to press a button at all, so not the best argumentation here.
Also, it is easiest to outplay. In many scenarios you can simply wait for the Dead Hard, cou cannot wait for a speed boost. And when you run into a killer and Dead Hard, you almost gain no distance, because you dash into the killer, not away from him. You only get the miss recovery, and that is not much.
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@FichteHiro said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/137032/i-guess-i-m-a-camper-now
As a Killer, when you hook a Survivor, if you don't go to the other edge of the Map and stand still there until the hooked Survivor is safely unhooked, healed, and starts working on a Gen, you're camping.
That's what entitled Survivor mains want Killers to do.
You don't even reach the other side of the next loop until they are unhooked
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I notice the progression loss almost always, but not that bad. The longer you stalk, the higher is the regression. But on a full Tier 3 stalk (stopping at 99 to stay in tier 2) it is mostly just like 5% regression.
Btw they stated in one of the latest patches that this was fixed. I noticed day one that this is not the case.
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@Alice_pbg said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1155193#Comment_1155193
The harpoon doesn't "necessarily" hurt people.
Kinda like plague
Not necessarily, but mostly. If it was not mostly, he would be unplayable. Like imagine of just a 20% escape rate from wiggling.
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Seriously. If you count totem searching + cleansing, locker searching and everything together, 2 seconds don't weigh that heavy.
By the way it also counters Oni power, Oni gloves addon (he doesn't see you while healing anymore) and Unnerviong Presence and Huntress' Lullaby.
Even if you don't wanna hear it, it is the strongest healing perk. Limited to 5 per game? How often do you selfcare a game? Seriously wasting MORE time than 2.5 minutes because you get injured that often without being hooked? 2-3 heals is average, even 2 survivors running it can make good value of it.
And from a Legion view: let's not talk about nerfs, let's talk about consistency. Head On also starts the counter once you are fully inside the locker, not already while entering it.
This is really not a "nerf" to get mad about
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I actually don't understand why shooting the harpoon is not an offensive action. Bubba is not allowed to break pallets with a chainsaw without losing stacks. And the harpoon DOES injure people, it just does not down them.
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Hiding inside a locker without Head On when I play Legion and just got a Frenzy hit always makes me think #########
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@Fibijean said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1154514#Comment_1154514
Possibly. I find it a bit hard to visualise in my head exactly what 2/4/6 metres looks like, so I would probably have to play a few games with the perk myself to really be able to judge it fairly.
Just think of a survivor running half a second. That is 2m
Or look at your PC clock while thinking of the running survivor and with each tick, say "enters the radius, leaves the radius, enters the radius, leaves the radius..."
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@Fibijean said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1154173#Comment_1154173
Which is plenty of time to decide what you want to do and react. If you pick up a survivor and see another hanging around a nearby hook, you can drop the survivor and chase the would-be saboteur down, or just go to a different hook. The aura reading is meant to give you a heads up on the survivors' plans, not negate them entirely.
What you proposed isn't a bad alternative, but I still think 16 metres is too much even in that case, because it gives you way too much information on nearby survivors. At that point, it's almost like a reverse (and better, if we leave out the BP gain) BBQ.
And in addition: it is a perk used to counter sabo. That is a pretty specific usage that you "waste" a perk slot for, so it should be pretty good at doing so.
Yes, PTB version was a better information perk than BBQ and not only sabo counter, but that is why I suggested the range restriction
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@Fibijean said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1154173#Comment_1154173
Which is plenty of time to decide what you want to do and react. If you pick up a survivor and see another hanging around a nearby hook, you can drop the survivor and chase the would-be saboteur down, or just go to a different hook. The aura reading is meant to give you a heads up on the survivors' plans, not negate them entirely.
What you proposed isn't a bad alternative, but I still think 16 metres is too much even in that case, because it gives you way too much information on nearby survivors. At that point, it's almost like a reverse (and better, if we leave out the BP gain) BBQ.
I know, 16m was too much. On PTB it almost always gave you full information, because hooks are mostly not at 32m distance to each other and there is always a hook 16m near to a gen. But the reduction is too hard I think. I would make it 6/7/8 m because 2m on tier 1? That doesn't even give you a heads up, I would even say in most situations on outside maps you see the survivor before the perk sees him