Deadeye
Deadeye
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and?
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Hag is honestly strong enough. She is not easiest to learn, but she really doesn't need early gen pressure
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Yeah, swamp maps are pretty nice as survivor. Not the whole map but I don't think this map is sided in any way. Leaving it to one of 39 maps that is heavily killer sided. But wait, stats say indoor maps are the most killer sided maps. Sooooo.... may "objectively" be the wrong word and you actually mean "subjectively"?
Beneath that, survivor sided maps were the bigger part of the balance issue which got adressed in JUST THAT RECENTLY RELEASED PATCH. So guess what will happen next, if there is a heavily killer sided map balance now? How about igve them time to measure and go on with balancing? Pretty sure they will release a roadmap tomorrow containing map reworks, probably even which map or set of maps will be adressed.
Btw Lithe is so completely not useless on Shattered Wood. Maybe you count the windows again in a custom game... And did you know that you can trigger Lithe also on pallet vaulting? There are enough pallets that killers try to mindgame, allowing you a Lithe vault
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@PodgeNotRodge said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1300023#Comment_1300023
I dont think RE could to be honest. Like Mr X just walks through a wall. Unless they start allowing a certain killer to just break whole buildings, Mr X wouldnt work. If you consider when he is hit he begins to run faster how would you implement that as an ability. Oh I get a temporary speed boost?
Nemesis would be the better pick but again. Youd have to make his rocket launcher an ability that just allows him to injure state a group of survivors in a radius which would be broken tbh 😅
If you take more time than 5 minutes to develop a concept, I'm sure there are ways to get a working killer. You could also do mutated William Birkin or Wesker for example. And I would not put a rocket launcher into DBD
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Gratz to the challenge @Icery :)
Just if anyone else comes by: I got that achievement with Myers. Although I didn't really force it. But having insta downs ready near the basement with Infectious Fright can work wonders. Had it on suffocation pit, that helped as well. Having fun at the basement side, letting others do the gens on the other side until they have to come to you. But Agitation + Iron Grasp is kinda must-have.
There are also several basement builds that work well. Trapper by basekit is a good basement killer, hag as well. Freddy could work too when you have a gen very close to the basement entry. Demogorgon works too, always keep a closed portal near the basement to make sure you can teleport there by any means. Builds with teleport killers would be Iron grasp + Agitation to get there initially, then add Make Your Choice and STBFL. Fast hit recovery and the distance avoids BT on the hooked one and exposes the unhooker. So 2 quick hits to get 2 downs. Just timing is essential. For example with Demo, not too late to be able to catch them on the stairs, but also not too early or you dont get the exposed status.
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I'm interested in the roadmap. I stopped thinking about the chapter, too many "obvious" clues on too many different killers. I'll just wait, say "whoa" and then rage the forum to point at everyone that made a fail prediction :P
And I sincerely hope they give some decent information, when it comes to questions. They tend to answer super vaguely and dodge every possible criticism.
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Would be good if you noticed the killer and video proof
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Resident Evil would work. But there is no discussion on that somewhere, just some mentionings that people would like such a chapter. I wonder how noone could have found an "obvious" clue that chapter 16 will be Resident Evil though :P
But to be honest, with a quick search I just think Resident Evil and Silent Hill are the only two horror games that would make sense in DBD. But I haven't played Evil Within, so that might work too if you guys say so
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1299907#Comment_1299907
"And you are STILL able to play around that easily"
I question whether or not you've actually been in the situation where you have both Madness 3 and Deep Wounds at the same time. Even if it was from BT3 there is still a good chance you will go down if he uses Static Blast to interrupt you.
"And as I said, skillchecks are pretty easy."
Easy but the punishment for a SINGLE error is way too high. Again all that needs to happen is you fail 1 skill check which can happen even for experienced players when there is a lot going on. Unless you mean I should run clear across the map to do this, but we all know that's just impractical and silly. I shouldn't have to do that to ensure I don't get severely punished for a single relatively easy to make mistake.
"Not being able to repair is not a threat. It is not lethal. It is slowdown, nothing else. Same reason why Deep Wounds is not a threat."
They are not meant to be lethal. They are meant to be slow down mechanics.
"And it does not give the killer free slugs, because it takes quite some effort to get ALL survivors into madness 3 at which point I would say well played."
It's not all that hard if you stay near the slugged survivor and Static Blast/Shock any survivors that get close. And when there are 2 survivors left it is very much a free slug. Slug one, put the other in Madness 3, now there is no chance for them to recover from that situation. No other killer can do this. If you want to slug as any other killer there is still a chance the survivor can revive the other one and they reset the situation. Doc gets a free slug in this case and there is nothing you can do about it.
"I think madness 3 is not a threat, so I'm fine with that "single rare situation" where madness 3 is strong"
It's not meant to be a THREAT, and strong is an understatement. It's borderline broken because of the way these effects interact with each other. The devs even said on stream on time around Doc's rework that they will be looking at how Deep Wounds and Madness 3 play out, and make changes if necessary. Well, turns out that change is needed after all.
"And just to mention: I think when multiple people are slugged and the rest on tier 3, it is most likely bad team play. I would guess that is over altruistic behaviour, like crouching around in the doc radius exposing themselves and causing this multiple slug/madness, because "getting this slug up is so GAWDDAMN Important right now!" Multiple slugs is almost always caused by bad survivors, failing flashlight attempts or hiding like derpface in scary movie."
It's not necessarily bad team play as much as it is just Doc getting stuff for free. He can actually slug very effectively. Of course it does rely on altruism, but considering Doc can ALSO be incredibly strong in a 3 gen he can force this altruism in a lot of situations.
Deep Wounds/Madness 3 are not meant to kill you. The killer has to ACTIVELY do something for that to happen. They are time sinks, meant to waste survivor time while the killer does whatever they need to do. But the way these two mechanics interact with each other lead to several rather unfair outcomes that can't be avoided, much like old Legion.
Again what does it hurt Doc to make these 2 changes? He is still a plenty strong killer without them. He has all the tools necessary to control the game and catch survivors. He has tracking, slow down, and anti-chase tools at his disposal, he doesn't need these 2 things. Unless you can justify keeping them then you honestly have no argument. MAYBE old Doc would have needed them (I would still say he didn't) but new Doc definitely does not need them.
1) I have multiple times and never went down. And I said already that a static blast doesn't down you. The interrupt doesn't give you regression, and you can run for 2 seconds to prevent the mending timer to go down.
2) I would say I roughly fail one madness skillcheck per 3 doctor games. That this one failed skillcheck happens while I'm mending after being unhooked with a BT2 and the killer hit me but didn't tunnel me so I was able to snap and mend, I would say happens at MOST once a month, rounding up. And I blame that case on me, not on the evil madness 3. And I still don't go down in that case, I search for someone to heal me or take the agression to allow others to do gens or prevent someone else to go down with an easier position than me.
3)+5) So why calling madness a threat? That came from you. Beneath that, Deep Wounds is lethal, you go down from that, it is just too easy to counter to actually call it lethal.
4) As I said, if the killer camps a slug and gets rewarded for that -> survivor fail. Just don't do that against a doc without good reason. If 2 survivors left -> yeah, probably easier endgame for doc, but at that point I'd already say well played again.
6) From my point of view I could also ask why survivors need these changes. Because I already repeated that you have plenty possibilities to not go down by that oh so unfair scenario, which takes place maybe once a month. I really think this is not a game breaker at all and that things like that are purely raised by bad survivor play. And therefore I would never vote up to put development time into something that barely touches me
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1299835#Comment_1299835
They changed BT to apply Deep Wounds specifically so that you can do it without the need of another survivor. We don't need to revert back to that.
Getting out of the TR of Doc is easier said than done. Most Doc's run Distressing, which makes their TR 40m. This besides the fact than unless you have Spine Chill you can't know for sure if you are out of his TR because there are a lot of fake TR effects with Madness. Therefore this is not always a valid option.
Failing 1 skill check reverts progress, so that 12 seconds is now 15. With Doc's skill checks being backwards or not always on the center of the screen it's actually not that hard to miss a skill check, especially if you are unsure if he is even near you.
The threat of Madness 3 is that it blocks specific actions, namely repairing and healing. Healing from injured to healthy makes sense, but blocking someone from being healed from dying does not as it just gives the killer free slugs. The fact you need another survivor to heal you off the ground is the deciding factor here, as you can still run from the killer and avoid death while injured, but in dying you are at the mercy of other survivors being able to help you.
Again tell me why Doc needs either of these things? You haven't done that. You've given me what to do against it, which are not really valid all things considered since several of the potential circumstances lead to you inevitably going down, or being completely unable to get back up. No other killer has the ability to completely block survivors from healing slugs. If they want to do that they need to actively stop you. Doc doesn't, he just needs to use Static Blast and Shock Therapy a few times and now there is no way to recover. It's just a losing situation that he gets for free.
Legion was able to cheese DW timer, but it's somehow okay that Doc can do it now? Sorry no, that shouldn't be a thing no matter what killer it is. There is no harm in pausing the DW timer when in Madness 3, or allowing survivors to heal slugs off the ground.
And just to mention: I think when multiple people are slugged and the rest on tier 3, it is most likely bad team play. I would guess that is over altruistic behaviour, like crouching around in the doc radius exposing themselves and causing this multiple slug/madness, because "getting this slug up is so GAWDDAMN Important right now!" Multiple slugs is almost always caused by bad survivors, failing flashlight attempts or hiding like derpface in scary movie.
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1299835#Comment_1299835
They changed BT to apply Deep Wounds specifically so that you can do it without the need of another survivor. We don't need to revert back to that.
Getting out of the TR of Doc is easier said than done. Most Doc's run Distressing, which makes their TR 40m. This besides the fact than unless you have Spine Chill you can't know for sure if you are out of his TR because there are a lot of fake TR effects with Madness. Therefore this is not always a valid option.
Failing 1 skill check reverts progress, so that 12 seconds is now 15. With Doc's skill checks being backwards or not always on the center of the screen it's actually not that hard to miss a skill check, especially if you are unsure if he is even near you.
The threat of Madness 3 is that it blocks specific actions, namely repairing and healing. Healing from injured to healthy makes sense, but blocking someone from being healed from dying does not as it just gives the killer free slugs. The fact you need another survivor to heal you off the ground is the deciding factor here, as you can still run from the killer and avoid death while injured, but in dying you are at the mercy of other survivors being able to help you.
Again tell me why Doc needs either of these things? You haven't done that. You've given me what to do against it, which are not really valid all things considered since several of the potential circumstances lead to you inevitably going down, or being completely unable to get back up. No other killer has the ability to completely block survivors from healing slugs. If they want to do that they need to actively stop you. Doc doesn't, he just needs to use Static Blast and Shock Therapy a few times and now there is no way to recover. It's just a losing situation that he gets for free.
Legion was able to cheese DW timer, but it's somehow okay that Doc can do it now? Sorry no, that shouldn't be a thing no matter what killer it is. There is no harm in pausing the DW timer when in Madness 3, or allowing survivors to heal slugs off the ground.
This is not a problem of the perk, I said already that I think it is not a problem, if there is that single situation where Madness 3 has actually a threatening effect. And you are STILL able to play around that easily, except for that BT1 thing, which is still affordable. It is not like you "have no choice but go down".
And as I said, skillchecks are pretty easy. If you think they are that difficult to make it more common to fail these than hitting them, then you have a problem with his complete basekit, regressing all the gens you work on. Then the mending/snapping issue is the minor problem.
Not being able to repair is not a threat. It is not lethal. It is slowdown, nothing else. Same reason why Deep Wounds is not a threat. When have you lately seen someone go down because of mending? The only two things where I see a threat in madness 3 is when I can't make use of a styptic in chase. And it does not give the killer free slugs, because it takes quite some effort to get ALL survivors into madness 3 at which point I would say well played. And STILL it takes 12 seconds to revert that effort. Good luck at keeping all survivors at level 3 while chasing everyone down.
And I have told you. I think madness 3 is not a threat, so I'm fine with that "single rare situation" where madness 3 is strong (strong, not uncounterable). And there IS harm to the doc, exactly the reason why you complain about it.
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1299764#Comment_1299764
Let's face it, the most common source of Deep Wounds is BT. Styptic is a completely separate thing, on top of the fact it's still a free hit and should be changed to something more like Needle anyway. But the only way you can Snap Out before the DW timer expires is if the person has BT3. If they have 1 it's impossible, and if they have 2 it's a very good chance you won't be able to get it. All it takes is one static blast, you scream and stop the Snap Out while your mend timer goes down. You will be losing bits of timer each time that happens or you need to stop because you can't start running instantly. Human reaction time is AT BEST a quarter of a second, meaning that any time you need to stop you are probably going to lose that much time or more on DW.
The whole issue is that you are going down unless you play it perfectly. Again tell me what is the harm in pausing the DW timer until you can Snap Out? You can't do gens or anything, so it's not like you are going to use that 20 seconds to do something else. Doc gets that time, only now you're not totally cucked from a single Static Blast or another survivor that doesn't have BT3.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1299776#Comment_1299776
It hasn't though because the issue isn't about Snap Out or DW individually, it's how they interact together. Coupled with the fact he can much more easily interrupt your progress by using Static Blast, it just makes for a very unfair situation. You can't necessarily CHOOSE to be given BT, of course it's better than being farmed and going down right away, but when you can't avoid eating the DW timer you might as well just go down right away. The end result is basically the same, especially because the killer sees your notification bubble where you go down.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1299783#Comment_1299783
Snap Out takes priority. You have to do that first. And if it was the other way around then you just end up screaming while you mend, which is equally as lame.
The only reasonable solution to this interaction is to just pause DW timer when you are in Madness 3. You still have to do 20 seconds or more of actions to be able to do anything of value again, only now the killer doesn't have a way to subvert the DW timer (which BTW was the major issue with Legion, so why it's okay for Doc to do something similar doesn't make sense).
Fact is Doc doesn't need either of these effects to work the way they do. DW/Snap Out interaction needs to change, and survivors need to be able to heal slugs when in Madness 3. It's just unfair currently, and Doc is PLENTY strong in his current state without either of these. Like really what is the argument to keep them as they are? Doc doesn't need it, and it makes his kit more fair without them. It's just excessively lame to deal with these things as survivor, and gives him a HUGE advantage he can live without.
I said that already. BT2 gives you 15 seconds, snap out takes 12. You need to fail a skillcheck to not be able to make it in time, unless you waste time for no reason. And skillchecks are easy. It is just BT1 that does not allow you to take care of yourself, then you need to find someone to mend you. And 1) you should maybe get out of TR and not mend/snap near the killer or 2) run 2 circles for the 2.5 seconds you get blocked to stop mending regression. It is really not that hard to play around that to be honest, no need for "perfect play".
Beneath that, madness 3 is in most cases not really a threat. When I play doc, I barely try to get someone to madness 3 depending on the addons I use, because it just allows survivors to get back to tier 1 with literally no effort. Making you lose all the afflictions. So if there is this one situation, where madness 3 puts some threat on the survivors while NOT denying you any chance to play around it (run, save progress, find someone else, I mentioned it twice now) then I would say it is pretty fine.
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@TheLastGreatStar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1299758#Comment_1299758
They’re not really random. Considering they represent horror archetypes. I’m not sure what killer I would choose. The Werewolf would probably work the best, in terms of gameplay and design. But there’s also Fornicus and The Buckners.
I know we already have maps with cabins on, but they’re not the same. I mean an actual cabin in the woods. None of our current maps look like actual woods.
Anyway, I doubt this will ever come to fruition. It’s just a dream. As I would love to be able to play as Dana. 😂
Mothers Dwelling is pretty much a cabin in the woods. Like identical. And the survivors being archetypes even supports my random argument to be honest ^^ archetype means the characters are generic. You could put Dwight, David and Meg into the movie and it wouldn't make a difference.
To summarize, I think this movie is overall just too generic to make a chapter in DBD. I love the movie, but for the comedy aspect, not the horror aspect. If they bring this to DBD, I wouldn't say "yay the cabin werewolf" it would just be a werewolf. And therefore I would prefer to have an original werewolf they can do with whatever they want instead of creating a license chapter causing restrictions, not allowing to buy with shards and not really giving me a feeling of "cabin in the woods".
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1299749#Comment_1299749
Okay yea I just checked his add-ons, I swear there was one that made it take longer to Snap Out.
Regardless all that needs to happen is you miss one skill check or get interrupted and now you can't finish the action before you go down. It's just dumb. Give me a reason why it should work that way? Where the survivor basically has no option but to just go down? It's completely unfair. It doesn't hurt Doc at all to have the DW timer pause when you have to Snap Out because you still have to do 20+ seconds of actions before you can really do anything.
That's just the case for tier 2 BT. With Styptic or tier 3 you would need to fail MULTIPLE skillchecks. And as I said, even with tier 2 I'm not worried because it is an easy skillcheck. If you get interrupted is also not a problem as progress is saved and Mending stops while running.
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@TheLastGreatStar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1299735#Comment_1299735
I agree with that. However, it would be nice to actually get a real chapter. With survivors, a killer and a Cabin map. They could do some really fun stuff with this.
The survivors are too 'random' and not really iconic enough to have a place in DBD and which of the 100 possible killers would you chose? The Merman? And with Bloodlodge and Mothers Dwelling we already have two cabins. If we go for a REAL iconic cabin, I would say, let's add a map for Ash
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@thesuicidefox @DetailedDetriment
Actually it makes no sense at all to stop Deep Wounds. But it also does not make sense that Deep Wounds stops when you are running. So if they need to make strange changes to fix the game, they probably would do it.
I don't see addons that increase the snap time needed. And I just found one reference to duration from patch 1.5.something that says it was increased to 12 seconds. BT has 10/15/20 seconds of mending time and styptic has 20 seconds. So the average would be that you have plenty of time to snap out of it. Tier 1 is impossible yeah. Tier 2 would require you to hit all skillchecks. If that is a problem... well, the skillchecks are as easy as sealing a Demo portal.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
I think it was also to make killers more standard across the board.
Killers like hag move at 110% but have a 28m terror radius.
Killers like trapper move at 115% but have a 32m terror radius.
Michael in tier 2, the nurse, and the huntress are the only exceptions to this rule.
Pig used to be a 115%, 28m terror radius killer, so they increased the terror radius but reduced the time for the terror radius to shrink when crouching to make it the same. I'm pretty sure this was to make her in line with all other killers.
110% have 24m
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I'm pretty sure, as most (or often enough) people idle around the first seconds of a match, many wouldn't even make use of that, not caring about who they play with. At least I guess that is the reason why you see so many people not moving in the beginning, as they are simply doing something else. Same why it normally doesn't help if you just tell people that you run it in chat, before the game starts. Simply no reaction at all
With the perk thing, it might also be that actually more people would have "something to do" and keep them attracted. It is jsut my guess that many simply don't care
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@Predated said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1294789#Comment_1294789
Well, simple maths: in my example, the stagger was 3 seconds. In reality, the biggest stagger you can get as a survivor(I think) is a 3 second stagger in The Game. I've been calculating using those numbers, which is why I used 0.15 and 0.3 second staggers for the killers(using the same drop in The Game). Since 0% stagger(pre-BL) would mean you wont have a 3 second stagger and a 25% stagger(old BL) is about a 0.5 second stagger. Both lead to 3 seconds and 2.5 seconds of not being staggered that you can use to move around. Giving you a 2-3 second increased distance. And no, those strange window hits actually dont apply during a slow vault at all, as the game on both killer and survivorside register a slow vault properly on the server, because it can adjust for the latency difference due to the length of time. During fast vaults is when the "magic" happens, because its too fast to adjust for possible latency, meaning I could be on the floor(downstairs) on my screen, but are just on the opposite side of the window(upstairs) for the killer. Meaning that according to the killer's view, I should recieve a hit. Since the server works with killer priority, I get ######### over.
As for DS, if I ever use DS, I actually save my DS for the second hook rather than the first one. Simply because early game, there are more than enough generators where a 5 second stun wont affect killer performance too much, while a late game DS impacts the killer a whole lot more. Even I feel that DS shouldnt be activating once the EGC has started, simply because if I get unhooked with BT, I can tank 2 hits without any consequences. Which means that if NOED is somehow hidden extremely well, I can essentially counter NOED as a whole with 1 perk and 1 effect, and the killer cant do ######### about it. Let alone the fact that you have urban blendettes with self care who hide all game and cant be found untill the EGC starts, as that is the only reason for them to get out of their hidey hole, and then still carry DS just for that reason. It's essentially a place where someone is a massive coward and gets rewarded for playing brainlessly while holding control and sometimes hold m1 and are skilled enough to hit 1 "hard" skillcheck. Basically they wouldnt have deserved an escape, but they still get one due to having a perk and there is nothing you can do about it.
DS at this point is a core mechanic. Practically everyone has it and practically everyone uses it. It's comparable to Sloppy Butcher on M1 killers. It might not be a vanilla mechanic, but it sure as hell is a core mechanic.
"And you probably never saw someone drop in the correct moment, like when the killer is just getting up the stairs" This can only be done while you're not being chased in the first place. Allowing you to do a silent vault and disappear to the killer. If you are being chased, either you fast vault, letting the killer know to instantly turn back and get a hit, or he sees you slow vault, letting him know to instantly turn back and get a hit. I mean, this is like saying that Windows are OP against Spirit because she cant vault them while phasing, ignoring the fact that she can literally run around the windowed wall in 99% of the cases before the survivor finishes a fast vault.
"And Badham school is one of the strongest loops in the game." Not really, it used to be, but even then, Badham was still the most balanced map in the game, not favouring survivors or killers too much. It had the strongest loop and the strongest basement. Now the strongest loop got nerfed hard, but the basement has not.
"it is the same like getting downed at the shack with basement" No, its not. The shack at least as 1 pallet and 1 window at the top of the staircase with a very long wall inbetween to run away from a killer. Bedham's basement does not even come close to that safety. If the killer hits you at the staircase, he can and will hit you upstairs too. Without any easy way to create enough distance, while a shack allows the pallet to be dropped, forcing the killer to break the pallet or take the long way round, allowing a survivor to pretty much escape the killers grasp while the killer starts chasing someone else. Even if you include the pallet that spawns in one of the hallways. If you never been in the schoolbuilding before you were hooked, you have a 50/50 chance of going for the pallet because you cant see it untill its already too late to change your direction. If you happen to go for that pallet, the killer still can take the other path to catch up, not creating any distance that a shack pallet would otherwise. As for actually using the bradham school loop, doesnt factor into the matter. Because, like I said, you can reach that basement as a killer from the middle of the map. Its a very safe killer basement spawn for the killer.
One error already in the beginning, which again shows how much difference tiny little numbers can make. BL has a stagger reduction of 75%, not 100%. So old BL had no 0% stagger, survivors HAD stagger after dropping, while killer had not, and still getting extreme value from the haddonfield map.
And I still don't get your maths, at least regarding your previous post when you talked about window hits and 0,15 time difference. There's a lot I don't get in this paragraph. Latency has nothing to do with how long an animation takes. It is just the timing, the POINT when you hit. It doesnt matter how long the animation took up to this point or will take to finish. What is the difference between pre-BL and old BL? There is no 0% stagger and 25% of 3 seconds are 0,75 sec.
And the main point why survivors with old BL could gain distance is the increased vaulting time for killers. Stagger would counter the longer vaulting time, and old BL removed that, allowing to get to the window multiple times without risking a hit, until the killer gets bloodlust. And that is the critical part I am talking about, that would happen to every vault drop loop on the saloon, on the coal tower, blood lodge, gideon observer room and the large drop you mentioned, both swamps main buildings, Lerys center room, all Hawkins cat walks, red forest temple and dwelling... there are enough "abusable" drop loops.
Back to your point with charging power. This would not be related to the stagger, you could still charge the power pefore you drop if you time it correctly. What you request in this situation is the effect the Demogorgon has with his shred. It gets cancelled as soon as he starts falling. To get this effect, you don't need to implement killer stagger. Just btw.
Disagree on the definition of core mechanic. Pickrate doesn't make addons and perks a core mechanic. And Badham basement is not safe? I mean, lol? It has MULTIPLE windows and 3-4 pallets, two of them being 100% safe! You can easily escape from the basement hooks if you use one of them.
But all the things don't really relate to the discussion of adding stagger to the killer. I still strongly disagree with most of your points, I simply experienced it in a different way. We could just discuss if one of us is too bad or misses experience or the opponents is missing experience to make proper use of whatever, but that would lead nowhere. And to the stagger thing, I'm still at the point that we have enough examples of small nuber changes that have huge impact. And that adding even 15% stagger for killers would extend chases on every map, when survivors make use of that.
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What does your build has to do with the toxicity of other people? Run the build you have most fun with, perks are not toxic unless the survivor using them makes them toxic. DS isn't toxic until you make a killer chase you to jump into a locker, or doing a gen in front of the killers face. Flashlights are not toxic until you clicky-clicky to get attention and nothing forces you to tbag.
Some builds to give you some ideas. I like to run Inner Strength + Detectives Hunch because it helps you finding Hex totems if in play, it helps you against NOED if you experience that a lot and Inner Strength gives you easy heals while countering a lot of slowdowns like Coulrophobia, Sloppy, Thana or several killer addons.
Houdini build with Lithe, Quick and Quiet and Dance with me. Brilliant on indoor maps. Also funny, when you have some distance to the killer, fast enter a locker with scratchmarks leading to the locker, but no sound notification due to Q&Q, then immediately fast leave the locker, making a sound notification but leaving no scratchmarks. With a bit luck the killer even tries to bait a HeadOn :P
Speed Healer: Autodidact + Solidarity + For the people + probably Dead Hard. Also pretty much counters every slow heal build and also strong against slugging
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@Predated said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1293504#Comment_1293504
"3% doesnt last the entire game, it is per sleeping survivor, You almost never have that effect at maximum stacks." You'd be surprised how long survivors prefer not going for failing a skillcheck or running all the way to the opposite side of the map for a wake up. 5% regression adds up a lot, walking to the other side of the map will cost you more time than the punishment is on the gen. The only time people are actively being woken up is if one of them happens to be awake and there isnt a gen nearby, that or they'd have to be fully premade. Or ofcourse Freddy waking them up by hooking them. Other than those reasons, you're pretty much guaranteed a slowdown thats on max stacks when you need it to.
While you are correct that in some cases it might extend a loop, which is rare, especially as it pretty much requires a pallet to actually succesfully cash in on the stagger time difference(a 0.15 second difference on a window vault would still register a hit), so if you were too late for 1 window hit, odds are extremely likely that you would have been too late for a hit regardless. Especially considering that on the survivor AND the killer screen, they are almost on the floor and still get hit by the killer. The whole reason why old vault drops pre-stagger/old BL were so succesful were because of the time the survivors earned before the killer was able to reach the floor. Which was a 3 and 2,5 second difference. The 0,15 second difference is too insignificant of a difference in a chase overall.
"I would say it is the survivors fault when using paths with a dropdown that allow the killer to catch up." Then would you say a DS is the killers fault when the exit gate is open and basically guarantees a survivor the escape because they can easily crawl out within 60 seconds, regardless if the survivor performed incredibly stupid all game? Would you say genrushing is a myth because the killer didnt patrol the gens sufficiently? Would you say that people who have their asses being saved by their teammates over and over again due to their incompetence deserve the adrenaline heal+sprint after you've downed them because their friend on comms was keeping a gen at 99? That its the killers fault if OoO pretty much destroys a killer as long as the one with OoO keeps their aura hidden behind generators? Considering the FACT that there are tons of maps where a drop down is literally the only chance of escaping a hit in a chase but due to killers being able to charge their ability mid air(I mean, imagine survivors being able use styptic agent mid-air) guaranteeing a hit regardless, makes it either bad map design due to a lack of paths given, or having plenty of legitimate paths in the game but gamemechanics making those paths impractical. I am 100% of the second opinion, considering Haddonfield alone is proof that the only escape is often a drop. Hawkins' second floor generator only escape is a drop unless you can see the killer's aura going towards the stairs. Thompsons house second floor only escapes are drops or a staircase that is almost always a hit regardless. Bloodlodge's drop only works because there is a window nearby. If the basement spawns inside the school on Bradham's, the killer can reach the basement extremely easily from all sides. It's easily the strongest killer basement in the game due to killer accesibility. You can be going from the center tile of the map to the school's basement without agitation or iron grasp and still reach the hook(just barely) thanks to the double drop without any negative consequences, while the basement, long distance, should be high risk high reward for the killer. Would you really call it fair when there is practically no risk and a high reward to it, without the survivors making a risky move in the first place?
Well, on the Freddy slowdown we can keep discussing. Actually no idea and we won't have a clear answer unless we fully test and measure that appropriately. I just brought that in as an example what slight number fixing can lead to. Forever Freddy is still annoying, but with the slight tweaks you at least have a chance now, old Forever Freddy was simply over once the second person was on the hook.
Not sure if you really remember the difference between old BL Haddonfield and new Haddonfield. The windows didn't give you such a big stagger effect. People with old BL gave them that much of an advantage that it was basically pointless for killers to chase them through houses. And I don't get what you are calculating there. Pls repeat step by step where you think there is a 2-3 second difference. And regarding the strange window hits, I'm pretty sure that is just on slow/medium vaults.
I think the DS example doesn't work well. If there is a DS possible on an endgame hooked survivor, then you hook that guy at most once during the match. If there are beneath that three other survivors alive that can manage to unhook that guy without you being able to make a hook exchange, or if you can't manage "at least" a hook exchange against 2 survivors coming for the safe, then yeah, all of these scenarios mean that you didn't perform well enough, allowing to get into that situation.
Beneath that, the arguments target certain perks and it doesn't matter if that is fairt or not. If not, change the perk. We are talking about a core mechanic, I don't see how OoO or DS is related to that. Like "DS is unfair, let's add killer stagger" pls what? And I would say it is "good" map design to have A FEW spots on the map that are more lethal than others. Still my argument, that this needs map awareness. If survivors run blindly around and then wonder why they get hit, then yeah, it's their fault.
Thompson house even got nerfed, it was a total death trap before, while the rest of the map was jungle gym to jungle gym. And you probably never saw someone drop in the correct moment, like when the killer is just getting up the stairs, and NOT when they see you. Because then you have a chance to get to the near pallets outside, when the killer needs to run down the stairs again. And Badham school is one of the strongest loops in the game. With the possibility to not spawn the basement, meaning if you get downed in there, you wasted a lot of time and a single protection hit could cause the survivor to wiggle free. Is that fair to the killer? Allowing to run the strongest loop again and again without any punishment? With the basement in school it is the same like getting downed at the shack with basement. It's up to you if you want to take the risk while getting a lot of value out of the loop, or if you leave it early. So yeah, I think it is fair, because it is more like a high risk, high reward for the survivor he needs to decide on. The killer just decides if it is worth spending the time if the survivor goes for that loop.
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@mottigedel said:
it's gonna be Jason. you can quote me on that later.
I'll quote you when it is not Jason
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@Peanits said:
The stream is going to reveal the next chapter, so the PTB is for sure going to be sometime after the stream, otherwise it would spoil the reveal.
You have an idea when the snapshot from live will be taken? Soooo.... trying to get enough bloodpoints for a kickstart? 😅
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@AChaoticKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1293537#Comment_1293537
but we got nothing solid man, it's all just speculation. tbh i really hope we get alien that would be sick.
Depends on who you ask. I already heard at least 2 killers are on 100% right now
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@AChaoticKiller said:
why can't they accidentally leak anything, the anticipation is killing me! CURSE whoever is doing there job properly to prevent the leaks!
There are enough clues around and we currently have a list of 10 possible killers. Why not join the conspiracy?
- The Candyman actor confirmed voice acting for a video game
- There was a boardgame for Friday 13th released this year (or announced?) so the license issues might be solved
- for Jason, anyone ever noticed that gamepedia said, there is an unused Swamp map in the game files called "Dead Lake"?
- The "4" in the anniversary image is 100% pyramid head shaped
- The black ooze on the skull is definitely from Prometheus, so we get an alien chapter
Have fun
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I love Bunny Fengs from both sides.
Some streamers just called out the bunny season, moriing all the bunnies they face. But that was just a "fun" thing and only lasted for maybe a month. The clown you faced was just bad and picked a random excuse for his behaviour
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@Predated said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1291302#Comment_1291302
I also pretty much stated it having a higher requirement for triggering in the first place. I mean, BL triggers from 4 steps, so 4 steps is already considered a great height that causes stagger in survivors, I'm more intending on an entire staircase before it starts having minor effects. As for 3% per sleeping survivor, thats kinda different because that lasts the entire time, 3% per survivor means that it impacts up to 10 seconds on solo gens. 20% faster kicking, isnt really impactful enough to make a difference, since there are only a few pallets per map that you want to spend time breaking, but if we're gonna assume people spend time dropping even extremely unsafe pallets, that's still an impact of 0,5 second per pallet. Meaning that you end up saving 5 seconds in chase time. Considering there tend to be 3 very safe pallets per match(on average) that saves you 1,5 seconds on average in a match.
A 5% stagger to everything and it would only work at high drops, which some maps dont even have, it would require 100 high drops per match on average for it to even compare to the pallets. 1000 drops per match on average, for it to match Freddy's slow down, which can be significant enough to be a difference between a 1k and a 4k. Even with old balanced landing I couldnt pull off 1000 drops per match on average as a survivor.
Let alone that the stagger is meant to prevent some killers from instantly using an ability when they touch the floor that allows them to instadown a survivor that cant even move yet or barely had time to move in a situation where they might not have earned an instadown in the first place. A mechanic that was implemented to stop infinites from being a thing is impacting places where no infinites are possible in the first place to be a free kill for some killers without having to plan ahead. Being able to do anything brainlessly and getting a massive reward from it without the opposition making a mistake should not be a gamemechanic. A trapper who brainlessly places a trap will catch survivors who brainlessly wander around. A clown who has a pinky finger bein able to bodyblock while refilling and then instadowning a survivor will have had the survivor having made a mistake. A survivor dropping out of the only window, falling down the only hole to prevent being instadowned by a billy but the billy having bamboozle and being able to fully rev his chainsaw before the survivor can even move, how is that a mistake by any means? At least before the last patch, you could sometimes use a window to cancel out the stagger when being chased by a billy or huntress(and huntress is already strong vs loops) and that was abused towards other killers(cus it was too strong against most killers) but now even that is gone. Adding a killer stagger that would cancel out an unneccesary strength for some killers by cancelling a channeling/charging of an ability(which can also be used in killer favor, example being Freddy's class photo addon) once they touch the ground, without impacting m1 killers too much, if at all.
3% doesnt last the entire game, it is per sleeping survivor, You almost never have that effect at maximum stacks. Staggering lasts the entire game on every dropdown. You can bet that survivors adapt to recognize the power difference in loops that contain vault drops like they did on Haddonfield. And regarding pallet breaking: it is not about the sum of time for breaking pallets, it is about the mindgaming, to push survivors on the wrong side to make them run into unsafe areas of the map while losing less distance because of faster pallet breaking. If you just kick pallets as soon as they are dropped, the perk is weak.
And the stagger also is irrelevant for the amount of time you lose in sum, it is about if you allow the survivor a single extra loop, causing 5-10 seconds extra chase on EACH loop that allows this extra turn on EVERY survivor that makes use of it, which could easily lead to extra minutes of extra chase depending on the map.
And regarding the "earned downs" and "killers not having a plan": I would say it is the survivors fault when using paths with a dropdown that allow the killer to catch up. It should be common sense that you don't chase over a hill when you don't have BL because you just create a stagger effect. Or if you run into a deadend because you expected a door or window. The same counts for killers, if they try to cut off the survivor and run into a window or deadend, it is their fault. This is just about pathing and map awareness. If survivors get hit because of the stagger effect, it is in the first place bad pathing. And getting caught in a place where there is only 1 dropdown is simply at your risk. You get caught offguard, that is not only the case for stagger, there are a lot critical places you need to be aware of when you want to have a chance in the chase, if the killer finds you there. Ever tried to do a gen injured in the shack with basement and pallet down? You better have sprintburst or Lithe ready, or start running as soon as you hear the TR. This is also part of map awareness
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@Predated said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1288915#Comment_1288915
Yeah, but are you really gonna compare 5% killer stagger to 75% survivor stagger reduction? It would be a slight buff to haddonfield being a survivor sided map. I dont really see 5% impacting haddonfield that much.
I can't really predict, but if you take a look what 5% movement speed means in this game, or if you have Freddy slow down all actions by 3% per sleeping survivor or by 2% per sleeping survivor, or what the diffreence is between 10% or 20% faster pallet breaking speed during a chase, and all these "not that much" changes that already happened to the game, then you can at least guess that a "not at all" or 5-10% stagger, and not to a single perk but to ALL drop downs in the game, might actually break the game
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@kosmi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1289079#Comment_1289079
Well knife and blood can be explained but human skull from alien not so much. That's why i asked how would you epxlain that pic in the alien world.
The "3" was not designed in any way like the Scream designs, they always used scars and knive shapes. "Blood" fits to pretty much every horror movie. There is no obvious "explanation" to the anniversary design.
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@coppersly said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1288927#Comment_1288927
Pretty sure fear of clowns is primarily an American phobia. I've heard many stories of people from other countries wondering why so many Americans find clowns scary.
Pretty sure? Where you base that on? Coulrophobia is basically caused by the "hidden" (cuz of massive makeup) emotions and the true face, which is a pretty basic and natural reason. I read that it is one of the top 10 phobias worldwide
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@xBEATDOWNSx said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1288927#Comment_1288927
I'm saying. Did anyone here grow up in the early 90s!? That miniseries was HUGE! I still to this day remember being terrified of showers drains and freaking out thinking he was going to climb out if one.
This was actually the first horror movie I saw and I was waaaaaay too young to see it. When I thought about my first horror movie, I updated myself like 3 times by refreshing memories and finally I got stuck with IT. I never thought about IT when thinking about horror movies I watched, because watching horror movies I always did intentionally. Except IT. I noticed that I did not treat this movie as horror movie back in the days as I wasn't familiar with that concept o.O
I watched it because it featured a clown and my parents were not around XD
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@kosmi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/154009/alien-may-be-our-new-killer
Ok and can you then explain how this pic connects with the allien?
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/WU80A6D48X4Z/dbd4th-1920x1080-final-skull.jpg
Can you explain how this connected to Ghostface last year?
All this speculation is as precise as the predictions as why and who the next soccer world champion will be. I remember that in 2014 the theory actually won the race that every nation that got 3 titles won their 4th title 20 years after the third. But equally reliable calculations got smashed in 2010 and 2006.
Currently we have 100% proof for Jason with the theory that license issues got smashed by the boardgame release and Candyman as the actor confirmed voice acting for a video game. So one of these 100% proofs is already wrong. I throw in a Silent Hill chapter as the "4" in your screenshot looks like pyramid head. All these "proof" discussions are so funny XD When the killer is finally released, there will be the handfull of people being able to say "I knew it!" (they should add "accidentially") but noone will point out how many fails there were around.
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If it is an incentive to stay on gens, it is an incentive to let your mates die on hook. Sounds like a fair tradeoff to me from killer POV. Also it is not terrible, it is just not as good on any killer. On Billy, Spirit or Oni it is god like until it is broken. Ever used Ruin with Prayer Beads or Class Photo?
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@immortalls96 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1285745#Comment_1285745
Buffing almost always changes the perks use entirely and they said they dont want perks to counter killer powers directly either..slippery meat has only stayed because it's too weak to be a priority
Wondering why they brought in the "no bleed" perk with the Oni chapter, which has literally no other effect than countering Oni power (I know that there is a minority of killers actually looking at bloodstains in rare situations, where scratchmarks and groans are not sufficient to track the survivor)
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I only see them combined with belts, and that is the problem. Noone ever runs insta hatchets with a single use. Either make them not stack with other hatchet count addons or add a minimum distance.
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after 2 minutes I thought already that the notes seemed kinda random and got annoying. Not my thing
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"Pennywise hasn't been all that impactful on the horror genre"
Dude, this movie kinda raised Coulrophopia in the world. Not sure if you grew up during Stephen Kings big time or seen the original movie when it came out, but I hardly disagree on this one.
Also Jason legal issues were bypassed by the boardgame that is released this year, see PaulieEsther. The Candyman actor confirmed that he is voice acting for a video game but is not allowed to talk about it.
Beneath that, we have currently a list of like 10 possible licensed killers. So your argumentation or sort-out approach is a bit thin
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@PrettyFaceKate said:
Overlays won't get you in trouble if they don't interact with game files and processes (which they shouldn't if they're legit) and if they're not contained in black-listed software. If it's a normal mainstream commercial app, it's generally fine. If you downloaded a custom app from some obscure site where they discuss cheats and hacks, then I wouldn't be too confident, if you know what I mean. If it's built-in in your monitor, you will never have an issue.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1288799#Comment_1288799
As a side note, Discord is perfectly and openly allowed, let's stop spreading this completely made-up narrative that it's cheating. DbD official Discord server has designated sections where you can create and join SWFs.
Official
DbD
Discord
Server
It is what it is, but it's not cheating, it's not bannable and you won't go to hell for it.
The official DBD Discord server even has voice channels for SWF :P If that would be bannable, they probably just had SWF text channels XD
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@Predated said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1288586#Comment_1288586
Not exactly, besides, haddonfield got a massive nerf when BL was nerfed. So giving it a tiny buff wouldnt be too much. Let alone that there are MANY maps that have killer sided drops that are never used by survivors, haddonfield is literally the only map that has a few survivor sided drops(second floor windows, not the rooftops, the rooftops would still be heavily killersided)
"Haddonfield got a massive nerf when BL was nerfed" This is exactly the argument why killers should not stagger. There was a reason why BL on Haddonfield was hated so much and called OP and also a reason why this got nerfed, because old BL could create easy infinites on every loop with a window drop.
This generic change would basically mean, make all maps a Haddonfield + BL combo for killers. Of course a lesser effect that this OP **** but it heads into that direction and could possibly break game balance
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They have 5 variants and they also were added from time to time. Not sure if they started with 3 maps or 4, but they were extended at least once. Same like with Badham, that started with a single map and was reworked to have 5 different maps. Which is a little bit different, because it just changes the layout, these 5 maps don't have each their unique main building, they are just shifting arond the tiles a bit.
The five maps for Cornfield, Autohaven and MacMillan have each a unique design and main building, so they are basically all unique maps but with the same base set of TL walls etc. For a long time I even thought Crotus Prenn and MacMillan is the same realm because they both use the brick walls.
Should mean, you can't increase the RNG on this, we just have a bunch of unique maps that are randomly chosen. You can't increase RNG to make for example Ormond more varying, they would simply have to create completely new maps that use the same key elements of the Ormond realm. You just can apply RNG to which windows are open and which pallets are placed etc.
And, to be honest, we have 14 realms with 34 maps. That is a 14,7% chance (5/34) to get a MacMillan map. That isn't too bad in my opinion. Sometimes you just can be unlucky and get 3 (n.b. 3 different) corn maps in a row. Unless you don't say "I don't want corn, auto or MacMillan maps twice in a row" which would be ~45% chance. But in that case I would say, yeah, then you would have to go for map offerings. Because I could also say "I don't like Crotus Prenn, Ormond, Saloon, Badham or indoor maps and want to see different maps more regularly". If you just list a bunch of maps which make half of the game, you will simply see those maps every second game. Only solution to this would be, pause playing for two years, then we have enough new maps by DLCs to lower the chances for the first three realms (which contained so many maps to bring in variety into the game in the early days, btw)
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My favourite is the combo Pop + Surveillance. If you can spot a 3 or 4 gen situation early in the game, then it is the best perk to keep these gens up. If you know the gen is low you know you can comit to a chase, you just need to remember which gen just turned yellow. And if you know there are more than one survivor around, spread the damage and follow the second one. Any further progress during the chase can be reverted with pop
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@Fibijean Did you already post results from your thesis? I just found out about the bookmark function and would do that with your post as well ^^
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Will you post the results here? Or a summary
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The brown benevolent emblem doesn't look like you managed to do well against the basement trapper. Seems like you got an unsafe unhook? If noone has BT you need to work as team to get someone out of the basement, otherwise just leave him to die and do gens. And don't loop the basement.
But basically: yeah, the emblem system is crap. If the killer is bad or simply doesn't allow unhooks, you are pretty much screwed to get a pip. You need to score in all categories to pip, and it doesn't look like there were a lot of chases or unhooks possible
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@LALYTHIA The guy killed in the screenshot had a weaved ring. There was nothing more to prepare. They probably found another key in a box. Unless he dropped the key for the others or for later. Which is also a point to "nothing to prepare".
@UnbeatableAsh mori on death hook gives you actually 300 BP more than hooking :)
@havoc survivor pipping with keys is not just caused by the key. Surviving just gives you one extra point. 2 maximum, but if you have not been hooked once, it is also not that uncommon that you escape this game, meaning that you still get one more point i nemblems. And if you leave the game early, you get less points in the other emblems, as you do less gens, totems, chases, heals and unhooks. With 3 people escaping, this might happen, because 80% of the match has been finished, so most of the survivors may just pip anyway. If 2 surivivors escape with 3 gens done, this is more likely half of the game, and the one point for surviving wouldn't help in that many cases. To your topic, I also disagree that it should be handled like this, it is a kinda strange approach to deal with a problem
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Just in case someone is interested in that, I uploaded the exact attempts per challenge.
Ignore the Kate challenge, I counted that as a single attempt with 15 minute playtime, because it is an easy challenge and I wanted to save it for the next chapter. The yellow outlines (master challenges), fillings and red crosses are also just my "pathing" so I can keep the most possible challenges while being able to finish the level and having all the challenges done (except Kate).
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@CashelP14 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1285447#Comment_1285447
Send a picture of it if you can. The masters are worth more of saving them is vital. Maybe you did get a better path than me.
ignore the double master on bottom left, thats the Kate challenge I keep undone. Yellow outlines are the master challenges, yellow filled are the ones to keep
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@CashelP14 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1285447#Comment_1285447
Send a picture of it if you can. The masters are worth more of saving them is vital. Maybe you did get a better path than me.
No, I mean in level one it was just different. In level 2 we have the same number, both paths grant each 6 master and normal challenges
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@CashelP14 said:
Just checked you save 360,000 bloodpoints from this. You can save more if you don't want to complete every challenge.
I have a different path but same outcome. My path is basically through the survivor challenges. Go up twice after the first survivor challenge, then from the master challenge straight to goal and from the third last also up to top over the generic and Legion challenge. With this you also can get 6 master and 6 normal challenges saved.
And I keep Kate open and save the master challenge before that, because dropping twice in a chase is an easy one. I thought about the other two "dead-end challenges" as well, but locker grabs and basement hooks is not such a fun challenge. I got lucky with the basement, but for locker grab I needed 4 matches. I had to tunnel to force them into lockers to eat the DS. In the first 3 matches Iron Maiden didn't even trigger once.
Also got 12 saved challenges from level 1. But I think it has only 5 master challenges.
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@Revzi100 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1285091#Comment_1285091
well thats a choice to do it or not
It's a choice to waste time or not?