DBDVulture
DBDVulture
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3325017#Comment_3325017
I mean, if the killer doesn't get a down, this perk does nothing, clearly that doesn't matter all that much.
Getting a down isn't that hard, and if someone is sitting at the gen when that down happens, it brings a lot of slowdown to the table. I really think you're underestimating Eruption if you think it's a joke, seriously.
As for Dead Hard, bit of a false equivalence, and one perk being OP (supposedly) wouldn't mean another perk can't also be OP.
-"As for Dead Hard, bit of a false equivalence, and one perk being OP (supposedly) wouldn't mean another perk can't also be OP."
Not to mention the justification of one broken perk does not make up for the angst caused by the other. Anyone remember 2016 NOED? It was literally the "payback" mechanic that made the game fair. You had your fun before the generators got powered but then playtime was over with never ending NOED and 9% movement speed.
@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3324508#Comment_3324508
again. Killers can camp 3gen from the start of the game (leaving 4 gens for free repair) and some do exactly that AND win the games this way. There's no mistake on survivor side for this design problem. There's no way to combat it except predicting it and taking some perks/items exactly for this scenario (BNP, potential energy, proof, etc)
You can't change your perks to play this way mid game. They also nerfed a number of maps to make the 3 gen strat less viable. Sometimes no generator spawns at hangman on DD Saloon. RPD can only have 1 generator in the main room (this was terrible nerf to the map).
There are a number of maps where you can't 3 gen unless the survivors are very bad at the game.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3324505#Comment_3324505
efficient killers guard 3 gens. The only time killers were voluntary lose a 3 gen is when they can get a kill from losing a 3 gen. I think map size only an issue if the survivor is hold-w before chases because of the large map size. A map that makes me think its too big is Mother dwelling. that map is absolutely massive and if you ever had a chance to face SWF's that pick this map with 4 sprint bursts as an non-mobile killer, you will understand how painful it is to play this map in term of the shift-w that is possible on this map. Like with sprint burst, the killer can potentially spend like 30 seconds just trying to get into the chase on this map. Even if you successful beat the survivor at the loops, it takes so long to patrol generators and walk from one end of the map to another that is likely worst offender when it comes too big maps.
I think your post is complaining less about big maps and more about gen spread. Your essentially asking for every map to have unbeatable 3 gens so that you can turtle near endlessly. Personally, I think close gen spread are unhealthy for dbd because they take away the defining strength of survivors which is spreading out and pressuring places of the map. The game being played in a single area of the map makes the game feel less dynamic. At least in my opinion, its incredible boring. I heavily dislike this gameplay. 3 generator greatly dodge dbd map's design within loops. You see, you can have pretty unfair pallet loops everywhere and strong windows, but if the killer is 3 gen, they do not need to deal with the loop design in the map if they never walk to that side of the map. That is large reason why Gideon has high kill-rate. It is strong 3 gen map.. so despite the map having a lot of pallets, the gen spread is favorable that 3 gen is really effective. I think that is running theme with dev's kill-rate on the maps. The maps that have poor gen spread seem to have highest kill-rate while the maps with largest gen spread have highest escape rate. I would imagine that since Eyrie crows has poor gen spread, it likely has very high escape-rate as a result of high gen spread. Of course the loop strength has contributing factor to a map's escape rate but its not single biggest factor. I think gen spread is single biggest factor otherwise if loop strength was biggest factor, then a map like Gideon's would be among highest escape rate maps. Otz in his video describes this as indoor map syndrome but I think i think it is fair to say that indoor maps have worse gen spread which leads to higher average kill-rate on said maps. At least this is more interpretation.
In regards to map balance, I think map size is an ok spot(barring Mother dwelling). I think loop balance is more problematic on most maps then map size. Father chapel for example is one of few maps to have a remaining god window. In one of iterations(I think Otz labelled this as Red chapel) that window by the basement is awful. its just free time waste. Father chapel is also one few maps to be able to spawn a jungle gym window facing a shack window. that for m1 killers is like 2+ minute chase to take out 2 pallets. In general running problem with most killers is that fact that most killers fall into the pallet break simulator. They cannot really mindgame pallets that are dropped. As a result, they end up being forced to break pallets over trying to get hits at pallets because getting hits at pallets takes longer then breaking pallets. It creates lose/lose situation for the killer. If they break pallets, the killer breaks pallets so slowly that the survivor can nearly always get to next loop and chain into another pallet which then leads to more pallet breaking. If they do not break pallets, the jungle classical gym pallet and shack facing each other on father chapel are bloodlust 3 infinities so you cannot down the survivor. As a result, there is no good play for killer. Breaking the entire map full of safe pallets is not feasible and bloodlusting pallet is too time-consuming/ineffective. I think it would be better to shorten pallet side loops or perhaps make killer's able to lunge longer so there is less incentive to break pallets and more incentive to win pallets over breaking them. Make killers not rely on bloodlust/pallet breaking to win chases. This is why killer resort to 3 gen in the game. You do not need break entire map if you 3 gen the map and play specifically one side. No need to worry about loop balance when your not going to participate in 75% of the maps loops. Your opponent cannot loop if there is nothing to loop in the area(artificial dead-zone).
TL:DR map size is ok, map pallet safety loop balance is the issue in my opinion. please avoid balancing the game off 3 gens gameplay. It makes game less fun.
-"I think your post is complaining less about big maps and more about gen spread."
Generator spread is a direct function of map size. If you can walk 15 seconds to the far generator vs 35 seconds - that's a huge difference.
But as I explained - small maps tend to have gens close together so that while chasing player one you often run into player two working on a generator. As map sizes go up this happens less often. The only way a 4v1 game is fair is if the killer gets multiple 2 for 1 chases OR the killer tunnels someone out.
Which one of those two is more fun?
@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3324505#Comment_3324505
nah. There's possible 3gen at road opposite to water tower. Also there are no gens diagonally from water tower. That 3gen is just plain unfair, but all the gens are always close together. So it's not just break that 3gen (like on headonfield) and then you are OK
While technically possible it doesn't always spawn that way. Furthermore
The smart survivors will always try to break the three gen first. Bad players decide to do the "safe and easy" gens first and then wonder why they lose.
-"Also most killers have a way to combat main's infinite."
Main building on DD isn't an infinite. It is an automatic time waster. Unlike Badham it is a much weaker time waster because it is defeated by breakable walls not god pallets.
I think you have some ideas about mid level play that just dont apply when you play against top tier players.
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3324852#Comment_3324852
I dunno, the games generally get way sweatier over in Europe at those times of day, not easier. If I want more relaxed games and not to spend half my time against the strange combination of crossplay and extreme meta (and the occasional steam player who wants to be an ass in end game chat), I need to play before 11PM or something.
That may be true in your region but it is definitely not the case if you watch two streamers who are in the same region : Truetalent/Otz.
The sweatiest games you will see are earlier in the evening not later (on average).
@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3324981#Comment_3324981
I know what you mean. I enjoy the challenge of proving I'm better than a team of survs. But I don't need a 4k to do that.
I'd like everybody to enjoy the game if possible. And if I know I could have the 4k? I'm more an happy to down a surv, go to a hook, shake my head then carry them to a gen and let them get on with gens or if they're last one alive take them to hatch.
They know I outplayed them and they get more BP for gen work and surviving. Since I don't care about BP or my rank anymore I find the game much more enjoyable. And I love those interactions where a surv realises you're being nice and you get offered gifts, have slug races etc.
The thing is that you can play the bad killers at low MMR just fine. But low skill ceiling killers don't have a MMR cap (and they should until something changes). The best doctor in the world using the most powerful addons will be humbled by a mediocre Blight with no addons. That's messed up. There should be no more than 15% difference between the best and worst killers. Right now there is much closer to something like a 55% difference.
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@WesCravenFan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3324858#Comment_3324858
The problem with this is it implies SWF means good. My friends are terrible at this game. So if we wanna play we have to all face Blights? That is hardly fair.
Usually when people mention SWF I say this :
Add the rule that no perk offering character or item can be repeated.
Lock everything but costume choices in queue.
Now 2 man SWFs have almost no penalty and big groups get a moderate penalty. That would be fair.
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@C3Tooth said:
And behold Perk Matching Rating.
Counter Trade offer:
SWF gets matched with high priority against Blight and Nurse.
Solo queue players get all the other killers.
Blight and Nurse play only large maps. All the other killers play maps no larger than 9500m².
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@Audiophile said:
Nowhere to Hide, Awakened Awareness, Darkness Revealed, BBQ, Floods of Rage, Lethal Pursuer, Face the Darkness, Bitter Murmur, Discordance…. Then thrown in the various uses of Killer Instinct and aura addons…
Survivors are SOL if they want to try to play stealthy. And it’s not just that… it’s the fact that you can’t hang out near downs to try for a save because of AA plus Starstruck or Mad Grit. You can’t leave a gen and remain in the area to mitigate Call of Brine, et al. because of NTH. You’re seen when they hook, you’re seen when you unhook, you’re seen when you finish a gen… randomly, working with others… it’s pointless to even try to be stealthy.
All we have left is running and pushing gens which is harder since the meta-break update. And killers get annoyed that we run 2nd chance perks and gen rush builds. ######### are we supposed to do?
It seems clear that the prevalence of these aura perks is to make it SO easy for killers to find survivors that they don’t camp. But of course they still do that anyway. News flash BHVR: players will use anything and everything you give them when it suits them. So now killers just do both. Camp and tunnel when that’s easiest, use auras when that’s easiest.
Do you guys really think it’s fair and balanced to have extreme mobility killers like Nurse, Blight, Oni, Spirit and other strong mobility killers like Dredge, Wraith, Freddy, Sadako… easily find survivors and also one hit them? And vs solo teams predominantly of course…
And then while dealing with all of this we still get slugged and left to bleed out by killers who just want to play like jerks. I realize there are some decent, sportsmanlike killers out there but on a good day… that’s still maybe 20%. The rest are people looking to play a game where they can get easy wins and some weird ego trip by dominating 1 or 2 survivors via tunnelling, slugging, etc… THIS is the game I see all day long BHVR. THIS is a large part of why you have DC issues.
Preemptive response: If you feel like you NEED to run OP killers with aura / one hit, etc to win because survivors are so strong, you’re just not a good killer yet.
DBD was a better game before Doctor was added. Hiding was fun because you had to outsmart and out think your opponent. You had to understand how your scratches appeared even when you could not see them.
Note that I'm not griping Doctor is OP - rather he marked the death of the stealth playstyle. There was only chase me after that point.
This situation only got worse over time with hand holding aura reading. When the fog got removed there is really no point at all in trying to hide. They even nerfed all the old P3 camouflage sets because they were above and beyond the best clothes in the game.
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3324789#Comment_3324789
I doubt they'll ever limit SWF in such a way. Even more than comms, imo the strongest advantage is quality control over teammates, which is impossible in solo queue.
Unfortunately I think you are right.
But if you look back at the plan from ~2019 the plan was :
1) buff solo
2) buff killer
3) SWF would get nerfed by "proxy" because it did not get buffed.
Killer can never be buffed to a point where it is equal to a SWF but won't squash solo players. This is because nothing will ever make solo players equal to SWF.
-"the strongest advantage is quality control over teammates"
I agree with this sentiment but I will argue that voice coms is actually stronger.
The only way to make SWF balanced is so that it is a "side grade" instead of an upgrade over solo que.
Not being able to repeat perks/items would do that overnight. The non character repeat part is to prevent the killer from having to face 4 of the same character. The no offering repeat is to prevent bullying (4x hook offering / 4x luck offering for guaranteed hook escapes).
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@I_CAME said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3324816#Comment_3324816
The part about streamers isn't really true though. Streamers win so much that they are routinely accused of tanking their MMR off stream. Someone calculated the stats for Otz and he wins around 80% of his games despite regularly doing challenges with bad perks where he severely limits himself. If you can win 80% of your games at so called "high MMR" while bringing bad perks then how hard is the game really? You should not win that much in a game with a functional MMR system. You should maybe half of your games at most.
Before we go looking at Otz as the model bear in mind that for a long time his show had segments where he was playing ultra late for his timezone.
If I go play a game in my area during a weeknight at 4am the game is much easier than if I tried it three hours earlier.
I can only assume that since Otz is in Spain he get matched with smaller regions like Africa where the competition is about as stiff as wet spaghetti. In case you missed it - once upon a time we could change our steam download region to force the game to put us in whatever region we wanted.
This means you could get a killer friend to play against your SWF and farm points. Anyway sometimes you didn't get your SWF and it was like you asked a girl who had never played a video game on a controller to play DBD as her first video game ever. Needless to say it was like stealing candy from a sleeping baby.
Go watch Otz doing the 30 second AFK challenge and look at the difference in the caliber of his opponents compared to TrueTalent. The difference is night and day.
I want to ask a single question that the mods will not answer :
Do fog Whisperers have adjusted MMR to make the game look more appealing?
Ask yourself what purpose do the fog whisperers that play killer serve? They make you feel that you could one day rise in the ranks and play killer like they do.
Would the game seem more appealing if the Fog Whisperers who play killer have easier games because there is some MMR invisible wizardry going on?
The only reason not to show us MMR is because you want to hide "wrong doing". Guild Wars was one of the most open and honest games I ever played. They told you every single adjustment of everything with full transparency. I know many people who played World of Tanks and that company was kind of the opposite. They lied about changing a tank's stats so people would buy other newer and better tanks. That's just gross.
I am not accusing BHVR of lying but I am calling them out. Let us turn on a switch to see MMR after a game's conclusion if we want to. The only reason to hide it is because you're doing something shady.
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@AssortedSorting said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3324784#Comment_3324784
Did the Survivors in that game end up just making the opening whenever they came across them like Breakable Walls, or did any strategy come about where they'd wait till later in the match to open that route?
Game was pretty goofy overall and it had some near genuine infinites so there was rarely a need to fool with the walls.
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@Warlord1981NL said:
As the title. I'll accept matchmaking will take longer. Had enough of it.
At my MMR 95% of players I come across are in a SWF (as I can see when they leave the game or I can see who is on their friends list).
It would likely take 30 minutes for me to find a non SWF game.
Rather than deny people the option to use SWF - the smarter idea is to limit SWF so that it isn't broken and an automatic advantage over solo queue.
Add the rule : No character, item, perk or offering repeats inside a SWF.
Lock any changes other than costume once a SWF enters queue.
This would mildly punish 3/4 man groups to prevent bullying and have almost no effect on 2 man teams which are the majority of players.
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@MrMori said:
That is all.
Sprint Burst has worked the same way for 6 years and is perfectly fine. Nobody would use Lithe if Sprint had a trigger button.
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@AssortedSorting said:
The concept is this:
It’s part of a solid Long Loop Wall that can be “raised” by a Survivor out of chase to create a Vault Window.
(Imagine a kind of hatch-like window that a survivor props open with a nearby support)
This can then be Vaulted by both Killer and Survivor.
Killers can choose to Destroy the Vault by breaking the support instead of Vaulting it, causing it to close permanently, leaving the Long Wall as it was before.
And a valid Long Wall would not always be guaranteed to have a functioning “Guillotine Vault”, likely dependent on what other nearby chase objects have spawned (other Vaults/Pallets)
Would this be something that you think could add beneficial variety to existing Loops, or not?
This was one of the core elements of one of the DBD clones that had a bit of "hacking". I think it had gold in the title. So while this is a creative idea it is not exactly "new".
Survivors could open bottom wall segments to create a slide effect and killers could close them or remove both wall sections.
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@mr_Beast_Artist said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3323493#Comment_3323493
This is the problem why players leave the game.
The developers do nothing about it.
Let the developers make it so that if the killer decides to hook a survivor who was just unhooked within 2 minutes, then all generators will instantly increase the progress of 25% as a punishment.
I just don’t understand why it’s so dirty and toxic to play spoiling the game for everyone.
The devs allow for the killer to lose 2-3 gens in the first chase. The only way he catches up is to then eliminate one player from the game. And you want to punish the killer for trying to play efficiently? Meanwhile the survivors are playing efficiently and that should just be allowed?
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@Zerotoxiks said:
After over 300hrs in this game playing a mix of killer and survivor I’m really on the edge of letting this game go.
now don’t get me wrong, a coordinated swf is very powerful but I mostly play solo queue like many others.
the problem is that in solo queue you have no idea what other people are doing, their is no coordination at all. Unless one of the survivors is amazing at looping or the killer is a newbie. You will die 10/10 matches.
playing as a killer for the last couple months I’ve never had a game where I didn’t get less than 3 kills. It’s just so easy to win. I enjoy survivor more because it’s much more challenging, albeit too much.
i think what this game lacked from the beginning was a way to communicate with other survivors. Having a voice chat even if it is just proximity chat would have been critical to this game being able to bring new players in for the long term.
swf can communicate and killers can still succeed? Why punish solo players?
anyway, just needed to voice my opinion. Would love to hear others thoughts.
thanks.
Most people don't understand how to play survivor well until at least 1000 hours. When you become efficient and always make great checks you are way more of a threat. When you combine that with good looping and a SWF you can win over and over again.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3324444#Comment_3324444
Generally agreed. With the exception, that 45s is way too long for stall given 3gen scenario. Again - hitting 3 gens close together does not take that long. And having 3/4 of fully stacked no way out for like 15s time investment (that gets refunded by CoB and other regression perks) just creates same scenario why people currently hate eruption. Also 30+s of free chase time after every down for a single perk is not very cool. But say the eruption got 30s cd and it going on cd after every kick - it would mean that there would be some reasonable time that 1 or 2 gens are still not blocked...
Making you lose the ability to do anything for ~20 seconds is a strong deterrent. That needs to have a fair replacement.
Unless we change killer regression to be 1:1 base then 30 seconds of generator regression is nothing. I would say 60 seconds is too long and 30 seconds is too short.
-"45s is way too long for stall given 3gen scenario"
Survivors leaving a three gen is the equivalent of the killer hooking one person three times. It's a mistake you must avoid.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3324483#Comment_3324483
There are 7 gens. Guaranteed 3gen near gallows. What does main's gen matter when killer can ignore it and ez win the game regardless? Also most killers have a way to combat main's infinite. It's actually very few killers that can't - only slow M1 killer that can't shoot or trap a spot (basically only onryo and Freddy, maybe demogorgon) - those have to ignore main. Everyone else have ways to combat it.
-"What does main's gen matter when killer can ignore it and ez win the game regardless?"
Efficient survivors will always break the corner three gen first. And then you have nothing. Killing one survivor early is roughly equal to losing the only viable three gen on that map - unless you are Blight or Nurse in which case almost any three generators are always close enough for you to patrol.
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@Gandor said:
Sure. Dead dawg being fair. Even Otz - killer main that definitely will not stand side to survivors will tell you dead dawg is very strong for killer
DD saloon also has an incredibly one sided main building. The building is so strong that most killer can never even consider contesting the generator on the second floor of that building.
But let me guess you think that's fine?
We see the same problem with the Garden of Joy Map. We have exactly the same problem in the disturbed Ward map that can have 2 generators spawn in an incredibly strong main building.
Most people don't remember DBD when it was in this state:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmvZBoy5XbEThis might not be the most fair example because : Spine Chill and resilience gave 15% vault speed and all vaults were always fast vaults.
The idea to take from this is that this style of window was deemed : unfair. And yet we have this window as a possibility in three places in one building on the Garden of Joy Map.
What you don't see in this video is that there was also an infinite loop upstairs. There is always one window closed upstairs on the Ironworks map because it used to be an infinite loop. Notice how slowly the wraith vaults? That was the old speed and it allowed for two adjacent windows to be an infinite loop with nothing else.
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@J_Me said:
Credit to the youtuber "leek" for inspiring me.
In this rework, Eruption would work as normal except the explosion no longer applies incapacitated. Instead, affected healthy survivors would become injured and experience something like the perk Renewal. These survivors would be broken but lose the broken status effect and return to a healthy status within a fixed period of time (unless put into deep wound, downed, etc.) Affected survivors already injured are put into deep wound.
I have attempted to retain a form of regression combined with a form of vulnerability. When it explodes, this generator will still have regressed, and the killer knows the screaming survivors are vulnerable for a short time. Should the killer slug for a chance to snowball? Or is slugging too much of a gamble, and the slow-down itself is sufficient? Conversely, should the survivor continue to repair and bait the killer from hooking another survivor? Or would such pressure be more of a risk than its worth?
I'd love to hear your thoughts.
The eruption rework could be very simple.
1) Remove the ability for survivors to do other actions when the trapped generator explodes.
2) Change the effect so that the generator cannot be interrupted from the regression state for 45 seconds.
3) Anyone actively repairing a generator when the trap is set of has a -15% generator repair modifier during the next 45 seconds.
4) Increase cooldown of Eruption to 45 seconds.
5) Now we have a perk that prevents you from working on the generator you want to work on that affects SWF and solo players equally.
This would encourage survivors to heal instead of rushing generators which would put the game in a healthier place.
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@redjasper said:
I'm not going to repeat the steps on how to do it, but I know the developers know how to a killer prohibit a survivor from adrenaline becoming activated if they are saved from the hook after the last gen is turned on. I've been seeing killers do this done to other players and it's very shady. It's just as shady as when killers would spam the drop button to deprive decisive strike back in the day. There are plenty of ways this adrenaline problem can be solved.
Most people don't understand the concept of "fair play". Let us define that term as : having as much fun when a power or ability is used against us as when we use it against someone else. In addition any power or ability should have some form of counter so that someone playing against you can either anticipate or prevent you from using that ability.
Adrenaline having a built in counter where the killer can drop you is fair. Want to know why? You failed to equip Soul Guard. If you had that perk and the killer immediately hit you then you would have gotten endurance and possibly had a chance to escape as a result.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3324052#Comment_3324052
I made a leap to actually call best 5% of killers high MMR. I think that's not that big of a leap...
So I can look at the very best survivor player streamers and tell you that blight does not have a 5% pick rate at top MMR. Blight is closer to 50% pick rate rather than a 5% pick rate.
Look at some of the streamers who were on an escape streak inside a SWf. The games were more than 75% Blight and Nurse. Suggesting that Pig has half the frequency of Blight in high MMR is absurd. I think there is an error in their collection methods.
Imagine for example we have a pig main like CMWinters who has Pig as their highest MMR killer. Does DBD mark the fact that he is a pig main? Is there a difference between him playing Pig and another killer who is a blight main and their blight is over 1600 MMR and therefore all their killers are in the 1200 MMR bracket?
This raises the question - what is the MMR cut off for the top 5% of players?
One of the biggest problems with statistics is that if you do not understand the data you have and present it in the wrong way it can easily lead to the wrong conclusion.
What does the top 1% of data look like?
I can only assume that 1200 MMR is included in the top 5% of their stats because otherwise there is no scenario where Blight is only chosen twice as common as Pig.
If we looked at say 1800-2000 MMR you might expect to play one pig in thirty to fifty games.
Remember that for ~6 years the devs wanted a 50% kill rate. Now they seem to want a 60% kill rate and say "this is normal/balanced".
You can't look at a 60% kill rate and say the game is killer sided when that is exactly the manufacturer's desired specifications. If killers had a 70% kill rate with a 60% expectation then that would be killer sided.
Ponder for a moment why the devs want a higher kill rate across the board. Could that be to possibly "equal out" very strong SWF groups who have a super high escape rate at the 3% or higher level?
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@Gandor said:
Also your comments make very much not sense. The game usually ends up in killer's win. So no. you are totally misguided
Play the weakest M1 killers across every map and think that through again.
Doctor and Nurse play fine on every map because they are so much better than every other killer. It's almost not even the same game by comparison.
@Gandor said:
Sure. Dead dawg being fair. Even Otz - killer main that definitely will not stand side to survivors will tell you dead dawg is very strong for killer
Otz has a curios perspective. He has made the claim that "the game" map is "fine" because he played clown on that map and broke no pallets and won. Imagine if he played four people on that map knowing he was never allowed to break pallets. Do you think that would have gone the same way?
@Blueberry said:
Seems about accurate to me. Most maps are way too large and with too many overly safe tiles (forced pallet break). Coal Tower is the ideal map size imo, mind you size, not design.
Coal Tower is good size because you inherently run into people doing gens during chases. This is one of the things that breaks larger maps because that stops happening and makes 4v1 more punishing.
The problem with the coal tower design is that you can have 3-4 loops chained super close and it can be way too easy to loop without actually using any resources for quite some time.
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@scenicpickle said:
after playing with new dh for about a year i think i can say without a doubt that any and all endurance related perks addon and what not should not give survivors a speed boost. deepwound is literally borrowing time potentially unlimited time at that by allowing the survivors a second life in chase by playing random chance im fine if the tank a hatchet or or use it like parry but the fact that they also get so much extra distance is nuts. ive even started using it lately and literally it takes no skill to use its either you force a swing at a pallet or wait for a desperate lunge that is readable or if you are out of options cause there is no where to run guess and maybe you get the timing right. normally at low levels it easy to deal with but against high level players with 4 people running it your gonna eat the DH at some point and that will most likely cost you the game since time is valueble especially if your using a weak chase killer like trapper or hag
any thoughts from fellow killer and Dbdextrous players not to be mean or exclusive but every survivor only player i hear on these forums are usually 1 sided bias and thinks most killers are op and survivor nerfs are ruining the game but i think all veterans know this game will always and forever will be survivor sided and thats fine a sometimes a challenge is nice
Dead Hard should have a "cost" to it so that you don't "gain time".
If you use Dead Hard well you can extend chases so that it becomes a third health state. This means you can waste potentially another 20-40 seconds in a chase.
Since it is effectively a third health state you should have to heal twice as slowly to make up for the time gained during chase. Considering the game is 4v1 this is still a "good deal" for survivors. If a survivor waste an extra 20 seconds in a chase then the opposing team just gained 60 seconds because three people got to do gens for an extra 20 seconds.
Nerf: increase healing time by 100%. Add : healing speed cannot be increased by boons, perks or items.
@kingcarl2012 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/361831/i-personally-think-endurance-needs-a-nerf
My current solution is going for an early lunge and missing triggering the dead hard, if you miss and can get them to dead hard they get no speedboost and your attack cooldown is shorter, and then you just have to keep them from recovering their exhaustion.
The strongest counter to dead hard is hard tunneling. If you hit them as soon as they get off the hook it's gone because you deep wounded them. They already are going to have their movement speed boost from base kit borrowed time.
Reacting in this way makes Dead Hard work one time against you in a chase and then never again. The only way they can make it work as a response is if they have DS - in which case you need to be patient on the swing because they have DH.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3323781#Comment_3323781
60%.... In high elo more precisely 61%... The game is objectively killer sided
Stats from when/where?
What were the parameters of the test? This is important because they almost never give us good details which means an incorrect conclusion could be drawn from the data.
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@LuthirFontaine said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3323856#Comment_3323856
I don't support these guys but your suggest is a little harsh, as a survivor main I've had a few times where I couldn't get 20 seconds on a gen because killer is 3 genning hard and no amount of pull will take him away from them. O and trying to get that killer to chase you for 20 secs is pulling teeth.
Just so you are aware there is a minimum time for a chase. If you spot a survivor there is a minimum ~6 second " chase". So really having it be a 10 second chase would be sufficient because that means the killer chased you for 4 seconds.
You could chain them together too so that if you had X seconds of chase and Z repair then that pieced together to make sure you were not stalling.
@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3323911#Comment_3323911
This is a weird one. Devs have said that survs ignoring gens and hiding is reportable because it can cause the game to go on indefinitely. But apparently a killer 3 genning is not, because that is their objective. And it is impossible for killer to hold the game hostage that way. Because they either kill survs, or survs finish gens. You can't permanently slug them because of the bleed out timer.
It's incredibly bad manners to do that amd draws the game out unnecessarily but not indefinitely. According to devs it is not reportable unless killer bodyblocks a surv in a corner to prevent them escaping and doesn't kill them. I personally don't agree but that's what they've ruled.
As long as you are actively trying to injure people a 3 gen is fine. Doctor (especially before his revamp) was capable of an infinite stall with a 3 gen.
In the last few months I have played a number of games that lasted 20-40 minutes. I didn't ask for it but it happened. Only one of those was a tie and the rest ended up being a 4k because I am a tryhard.
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@SmolBlob said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3323837#Comment_3323837
It can get them potentially banned.
We need a base game update of the crow system. Did you touch a generator in the last two minutes? If no then you get crows. Crows achieved this way can only be removed by either being in a chase with the killer for 20+ seconds or completing 20 seconds of generator repair. Healing yourself or another survivor should be adequate to prevent "stalling".
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@HoodedWildKard said:
Yh was gonna say that is absolutely reportable. Get their GTs, send the report and any evidence to BHVR. If you didn't clip it, then just remember to do it in future.
So you want me to record 15+ minutes of no chases, no hits, no generator kicking, no healing?
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3321875#Comment_3321875
That only means you forgot how the game played when it was new. The game was heavily survivor sided. And it got swapped. Now it's killer sided and for some weird reasons devs are happy about it
Sorry no lol. It's still survivor sided.
It's less abusive to killers if you are playing Nurse/Blight.
Pallets were a joke in 2016 and had a massively smaller hitbox requiring a skillshot that most people missed 95% of the time. They also stunned on a delay - not instantly.
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@DyingWish92 said:
Often I see most streamers and/or DBD YouTubers rank Myers as the worst killer, bottom 3 killers in the game, or D tier. Which I disagree with easily because his instadown power is highly underrated especially in endgame scenarios. 3 survivors alive, all of them fully healthy, one of them procs adrenaline and makes a dash for the 99d exit gate. Majority of the killer roster would be completely screwed here and at least 2 of these survivors would escape. But because Myers can instadown in tier 3 it forces the other survivors to flee from the gate rather then open it for a free escape. If you hold your tier 3 at 99% before end game many situations like this can occur where you can turn a potential 1 of 2k into a 3 or a 4k just by using his power. Did I get lucky with all the survivors being grouped up at the same exit gate, Yes. But even so how many other killers on the roster can turn this into a 4k with this exact scenario??? Don't have to worry about body blocks either which is HUGE. I'm not saying he's A or B tier, but I always felt he sits in C tier somewhere because you never feel likes it's over at endgame if you keep your tier 3 in your back pocket when needed. With that being said his base kit is horrifically outdated and needs tweaks.
With either infinite T3 or tombstone piece he is an "A" tier killer if you play him right. Otz says he's the worst if you consider no addons so that needs to be taken into consideration.
@DyingWish92 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3323413#Comment_3323413
Clown, Trickster, Trapper, Onyro, Freddy. And I think there's a case to be made that Pig, Knight, Ghostface worse but not as much as the first 5.
You forgot Doctor. Doc has detection not damage and his "slowdown" is a joke. He has some of the weakest antiloop in the game as it is defeated by latency. Doc often has to shock a survivor 6 times a loop vs a strong looper. This is me watching Otz/Truetalent/etc playing doctor and counting. They can play the killer nearly perfect and it just takes a lot of shocks to get a hit.
Doc is also complete garbage without the discipline addon.
Also Clown can be super deadly with Pinky Finger. Trapper with Bloody Coil on a grass map can easily be "B-" tier.
@Krazzik said:
Having certain scenarios where Myers may perform better than higher ranked killers doesn't make Myers higher ranked. He's low ranked because he's a basic m1 killer with no global map pressure and low mobility. He even starts off the game slower than nearly every other killer and has to walk slowly over to survivors and stalk them for a while before he becomes normal speed.
He's also incredibly addon dependant. Addonless Myers is absolutely terrible.
Most killers suck without addons. Nemesis is around B+ tier because he has terrible addons. If you were forced to play DBD with no addons and survivors couldn't bring items then Nemesis would be very good.
What you probably don't realize is that Michael Myers has the potential to be very good if you understand his kit and you do use a stalking addon + either of his best two addons.
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A number of killer streamers " crash" when survivors use broken map offerings.
As a survivor I don't really want to play vs a killer picking an indoor map either.
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@Krazzik said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3323352#Comment_3323352
To an extent. People have a tendancy to focus solely on Prove and claim it's overpowered when it simply isn't. Heck you could swap out Prove with Fast Track and often get even more time shaved off of a gen, or run them both and add even more gen-speed to the mix, but you don't see that. Survivors aren't running 4 gen speed perks with the best toolboxes every game. Some of them will every now and then but in my experience playing as killer I just don't see it. They run Prove, sometimes Hyperfocus or Resilience and sometimes a toolbox (and sometimes they don't even run Hyperfocus with a toolbox or even Stake Out).
My point is that yes, I can see how stacking a bunch of gen speed perks/items could be an issue, but most survivors don't tend to even do that. Then killers ask BHVR to nerf individual perks that don't even speed up gens a massive amount, it just doesn't make sense.
Prove Thyself doesn't need a nerf, it isn't all that strong and often other, much lesser-used gen speed perks would be more effective, but people don't run them. Prove is mostly ran for the BP and if they removed the BP bonus Prove would drop probably even lower than Resilience.
I know I'm kind of going a bit all over with this but I don't think any individual source of gen-speed is currently a problem in the game, and if combining them was as effective as people often complain it is, I figure we'd see survivors bringing genrush builds a lot more into matches but we really don't. Survivors still mostly bring 'second chance' perks, exhaustion perks, Windows of Opportunity and medkits, and throw a Prove Thyself on.
-"I don't think any individual source of gen-speed is currently a problem in the game"
Brand new parts are not really fun to play against and never have been. Imagine if all killers got a generic addon that made your first hook stage -20 seconds. That's fun right? If not then Brand new Parts should not be in the game anymore.
Hyperfocus should not work with toolboxes to give you more skill checks (see autodidact). Hyperfocus should not work with stake out to get greats when you really only deserved good checks. To put this into perspective when Huntress was released she could use play with your food and gain 9% speed and never m1 (at the time hatchets did not take away stacks). These are pretty equal levels of cheese. Just imagine if Demo, Nemesis and Huntress could play with play with your food and not lose stacks on "alternate" damage hits. Is that ok? No it isn't.
The reality is that any perk or item you bring should stop giving any generator progress after you save 9 seconds of time. The issue with gen speeds is when you stack a few things and suddenly you make a generator -20 or -40 seconds. Otz has a video he made a few months ago about how medkits and toolboxes can be completely overpowered or nearly garbage. You should give it a watch.
To be perfectly honest we should probably just make toolboxes only be for breaking hooks.
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@mr_Beast_Artist said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3322743#Comment_3322743
stupid logic for this reason, the dbd community is toxic.
what do you think about this idea? there are rewards for the killer but also punishment if he decides to toxic camp at the hook
good idea how to motivate the killer. After the killer hangs a survivor, a bonus is imposed on him for 20 seconds - he needs to kick the generator and he regresses by 10%, but if the time runs out, then 25% of the progress will be applied to all generators.
Hooking a fresh survivor needs to have a reward base kit. Why go for someone who needs two hits? Why not go for the same person again? Why would you ever do anything besides hook the first person three times in a row?
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@Krazzik said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3322892#Comment_3322892
Most of the time you get value out of Prove it's through 2-manning a gen, and Prove only saves you 7 seconds off the entire gen time in that scenario. While that's still good of course, it's nothing game-changing on it's own. If 3-manning a gen you save 10 seconds and if 4-manning a gen (something very rare) it saves 13 seconds.
You're looking at everything in a vacuum. If you have skilled survivors who make 10 great checks per game that saves 48 seconds for the survivor team. That's about 10 seconds of time saved per generator. Combine that with Prove and you saved 17 seconds. Add in a toolbox and then you can save 25 seconds. See the problem?
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@Krazzik said:
I would mention that there's a lot of gen slowdown/regression/blocking perks and many of them are pretty strong. Most of the 'genrush' perks aren't actually that good.
Haddie's one that you cleanse a totem and then do gens faster, it's awful and no one uses it.
Rebecca's one where you heal someone and they do gens faster, it's awful and no one uses it.
Vittorio's one where you get chased near someone doing a gen and they do it faster, it's awful and no one uses it.
Even Yun Jin's one where your teammates get hooked and you get tokens you can spend to instantly get gen progress, which is actually a 'decent' perk, no one uses it.
The only gen-speed perks survivors commonly use are Prove Thyself, which is decent but it's impact is not as strong as most people imply it is, and is mostly used for the bloodpoint bonus, and Hyperfocus, which is only decent with Stake Out -and- a toolbox, -and- is still ultimately heavily RNG.
The 'genrush' meta is mostly just good survivors prioritising gens efficiently, which has a FAR bigger effect on match length than any 'genrush build'.
-"The only gen-speed perks survivors commonly use are Prove Thyself, which is decent but it's impact is not as strong as most people imply"
Prove with two people allows you to finish a generator so fast that most killers cannot contest its completion. This is absolutely brutal with efficient play when you keep trading one hook for one generator. Prove with a regular toolbox just makes things worse. it allows you to break almost any three gen setup.
"The 'genrush' meta is mostly just good survivors prioritising gens efficiently, which has a FAR bigger effect on match length than any 'genrush build'."
This I will agree with. Most people don't waste time with chests/totems/hook sabotage if they want to win. Most survivors use the extra 15 seconds of the hook timer to finish gens instead of securing a save before the killer is ready.
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@hailxsatanxeveryxday said:
One of the best features DBD has added is the ability to store three builds per character.
This already works fine for survivors since they're basically just different skins with the same basic mechanics, and you can switch freely between them in the lobby, but it's not uncommon for me to find myself wishing I had 5-10 extra slots per killer so I can set them all up beforehand and freely switch between the various builds in the lobby.
This could make game queues much faster in some cases and save a lot of time.
(I'm not opposed to each individual survivor having extra slots, either, but killers need it most, IMO.)
What you really should be asking for is 6 perk slots when not playing Blight/Nurse.
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@jinx3d said:
Camping is not "holding the game hostage", its holding YOU hostage
Holding the game hostage is making it so the other side cannot progress their objective. You can be camped from first hook until death, and gens will pop, therefore progressing the game, therefore its not being held hostage
When you are camped, the killer is adding extra pressure to survivors by offering a choice-attempt the unhook, risking your safety and potentially getting you camped in exchange for keeping your teammate alive, or continue to do generators, letting your teammate die and making the game progress slower for survivors.
-"Camping is not "holding the game hostage", its holding YOU hostage"
-"Holding the game hostage is making it so the other side cannot progress their objective. You can be camped from first hook until death, and gens will pop, therefore progressing the game, therefore its not being held hostage"
We could literally end the thread right here.
@DaManOfGaming said:
There are too many killers holding the game hostage by camping hook.. this could be solved if hook progression would pause after the killer has been in close proximity for too long. That way survivors could have a fair chance.
"There are too many killers ... camping hook"
I'm going to pretend this is what you said. Technically you did say this but this quote is out of context. As a killer I camp the hook as a reaction to gen rushing.
If you go for the earliest possible save instead of trying to finish your generator then your survivor friend gets off the hook. If a gen pops then he won't be coming off without a trade or your friend going to stage two. And since they are in stage two I will immediately tunnel them out.
Survivors finishing their objective as fast as possible makes killers camp and tunnel. When will survivors learn?
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@sanees said:
I do not see anything realistic in these statistics
1 hook is always at least -2 generators
and by the way, where is the hyperfocus in statistics that allows you to make solo generator in 60 seconds?
-"I do not see anything realistic in these statistics"
These stats emulate low MMR where the game is semi balanced. It has no reflection of "real" play at high MMR where the survivors are in control of the game unless the killer is Blight/Nurse.
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@OrangeBear said:
I've seen new cheats too. There used to be cheats were survivors could instantly power generators but now there is a cheat where a survivor can instantly activate endgame collapse and power the gates.
That's not new. We saw that almost two years ago.
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@Warlord1981NL said:
I have no idea why when you play killer you get "thicken mist" in your bloodweb. I have never played a killer that made think: "You know what this killer needs? To not be able to see. That'll help me get the win."
Now, I completely grant that this could just be me... but shouldn't this be like "lighten mist". I have no idea why I would ever get excited for more mist when I play as the killer. I would never ever in a billion years pick it if I wasn't forced to by the entity taking something I would pretty much infinitely prefer which is literally anything else.
Mist is generally not relevant anymore. Once upon a time you could not see past 20m due to the inherent fog but that's not a thing anymore.
Mist offerings should be retired like they did with Brightest/Darkest Moonlight.
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@SkeletalElite said:
Release mettle of man was a stupid perk that worked incredibly well with other meta perks at the time (bt, ds) and gave an incredible amount of value (extra health state) with basically 0 work outside of playing normally (getting hit.) It had no reasonable counterplay other than to not chase the survivor with it or play specific killers that get around it. It was put on a licensed character, so people couldn't get it with shards.
Eruption is a stupid perk that works incredibly well with other meta perks (cob, oc) and gives an incredible amount of value (40 seconds wasted per gen affected) with basically 0 work outside of playing normally (defending gens). It has no reasonable counterplay other not repairing generators or only playing in a 4 man SWF with comms. It was put on a licensed character, so people couldn't get it with shards.
-"Eruption is a stupid perk that works incredibly well with other meta perks (cob, oc) and gives an incredible amount of value (40 seconds wasted per gen affected) with basically 0 work"
This goes to show you know next to nothing about playing killer. In the first place kicking generators is nearly pointless without regression perks. Why? The killer has a natural regression equal to 1/4th of one survivor. And then remember there are 4 survivors so the killer is at a 1:16 disadvantage for defending generators. If you're saying Nerf eruption and make base kit killer regression 1:1 without any perks then sure let's do that.
It would be fine for example if Eruption just stopped all the triggered generators from any possible interaction for 30 seconds and the perk had no cooldown. In other words it would affect solo players and SWF teams equally. If the killer kicks a generator and then someone goes down that generator can't be stopped regressing for 30 seconds. And then when that time is up the killer can immediately kick gens again and trigger the trap again.
-"It was put on a licensed character, so people couldn't get it with shards."
This is the disgusting part. DBD is trying to force anyone who wants to play killer into getting the good perk via money and not shards. Pinhead's perks have been kept out of the shrine for over a year.
This is why the shrine is "random" so they can keep the good perks out of the shrine and instead have free access perks clog up the system. All of the characters you get for free (Jake, dwight, trapper, nurse, etc should not have their perks in the shrine).
A fair system would have all the perks appear in random order and then the cycle would repeat. DBD has it setup as an unfair system to make you waste money.
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@SmolBlob said:
Someone should not be able to deny Adept just because they ragequit or crashed or whatever.
For the achievement DC should count as you hooked that person three times and hit them at least 6 times.
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@Bwsted said:
The game is nowhere designed for that to be practical. Any combo of a killer that get easy injuries with one who snowballs would make quick work of survivors. Plague with Oni would be meta. Infinite blood orbs with anti stealth.
Also, Legion with Never Sleep Pilss would have a fiele day.
The fact that everyone keeps saying : this would be meta tells me that it totally would not.
Also it would just be a chaotic fun mess.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3321126#Comment_3321126
Looks like somebody pretends to have played this game from the very beginning.
Being able to loop same 2 windows in shack without any limit or any bloodlust fast vaulting all the time (there's no other vault type) or using hell of a more pallets on the map, while only needing to hold M1 on a gen for 60s would 100% be more fun then current eruption 3-gen eternal holding & kicking meta.
-"Looks like somebody pretends to have played this game from the very beginning."
Pretends?
legacy anon.pngBefore they announced Legacy I had every perk on every character. Had I prestiged my characters instead I would have had legacy 3 on every character.
I have legacy weapons for all the killers and a full set on 1 survivor/killer.
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@Emeal said:
Imagine how many people will DC from this.
Twice as many as normal.
Don't become enchanted by your fav Streamer enjoying a hacked version of the game, it does not mean its good.
People asked for 2v8 about 6 years ago. Instead they decided to remove the fog and make everything "pretty" so consoles could handle the game.
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@arcticgirl36 said:
I think it would be really fun if we could get legendary items in this game. They would be extremely rare but really fun to use. They might be something found hidden on the map or in treasure chests like once every 10 games or so. They could be called Entity Tainted Items, or just blighted items. What do you think?
That's actually a great idea. Make this item be something you can only get a few during a once a year event (anniversary).
And during the event killers can get a legendary 3 addon unlock they can use every game (even after the event is over).
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@Gandor said:
This would be nightmare to balance. Map size, number of gens and times, interaction when stacking (do we get 6-sided gens?), unintended combos (twins with legion hunting together), unintended powers (legion would be so damn strong as hitting 4 people would suddenly be so much easier), some perks help killer (say bamboozle) but some are global (say thana) which means all "global" perks just got huge buff because they help also the other killer and so on.
The mode would be very quickly very bad nightmare to balance and to make it make sense + fix all the bugs and unintended behaviors.
-"The mode would be very quickly very bad nightmare to balance"
So it would be just like 4v1 in that regard. I see no problem here.
Playing Killer feels boring because you have no team and are always outplayed by those that have a team. Watching these videos makes me just want to play the other game coming out because we can play killer as a team.
"-nightmare to balance and to make it make sense + fix all the bugs and unintended behaviors."
Giving your killer partner increased move speed while you are using Agitation is a cool feature. Killer has almost no synergy with most of its perks by design (so that you don't run too many slow downs).
@AmpersandUnderscore said:
This would only work as a limited time mode for maybe a week. Much longer than that and a 'meta' will emerge and make it just as, if not more stale than the core game.
2v8 sounds fun for a weekend optional mode to me. After that I guarantee it would turn into blight/blight, nurse/nurse, etc. vs. 'omg now I have to hit 24 dead hards every game'.
-"This would only work as a limited time mode for maybe a week."
I have lets say 50 people on my steam friends list who own DBD. About 90% of them are people I've met in the last year to play with.
At least 10 people on my list are killer mains who gave up on DBD because the game has shifted to make the survivor experience more fun for nearly six years straight with little variation. I think most of them would be immediately down to play 2v8 because it would be fun.
DBD does not feel like a party game when you play killer vs a SWF team on voice coms. Give the killer a partner to play on voice coms with and more people will want to play killer again.
"-After that I guarantee it would turn into blight/blight, nurse/nurse, etc."
Leatherface is probably one of the stongest killers at the start of the game but Micahel would be one of the strongest killers by the middle of the match. With two full sets of survivors to stalk from he could easily get to infinite T3 tombstone. That's actually way more powerful than Nurse/Blight plebs who need to hook people three times.
Just imagine it now - they make a game mode to make one of the most underrated/under used killers really strong. People buy that killer and bring around his resurgence.
The killers that mostly suck now would still suck in 2v8 but DBD is in its worst meta state ever. Survivors tunnel generators to break three gen setups and killers tunnel out survivors because their gens are getting rushed.
There are so many people to chase in a 2v8 that you're never going to need to camp as you have so much to do.
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@YOURFRIEND said:
I'm not interested in alternative game modes. They'd see play for a month for novelty sake and die off.
You're in the minority then because a huge part of the community has wanted there to be something else.
@Raptorrotas said:
As far as I know Identity V's duo hunter mode has some weird timed restriction for when its available, but its popular.
But it also gets some special modifications like 45 seconds of hooked survivors neither being rescuable or progressing sacrifice, 3 healthstates and a 30% repair speed penalty (mightve neen on all channeled actions, cant remember) on 7 needed generators of 11 max. Oh and only 2 of the biggest maps were in the map rotation.
It could work in dbd, but the killers would need to be a) more in line with nurse instead of strong killers getting nerfed and b) probably also some special rule modifications. The timeout for hooked durvivors is a good method against "1 camps, 1 hunts", for example.
Identity V was so dumb because the duo rule allowed you to have one person be killer in the duo while the other was not. So you could knew who was the killer if one of you was the killer.
DBD chose pretty maps instead of 2v8. DBD will be feeling this design choice when the Leatherface game comes out and it has 4 survivors vs 3 killers.
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@Ithiria said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3320375#Comment_3320375
"When against efficient survivors you need strong perks."
Yes, beating sweaty people will usually require being sweaty.
Efficient survivors are not going to be most of them with how this MMR system works though.
You don't see hens and gang going for their SWF winstreak bringing meme perks either, so this goes both ways.
Efficient survivors are not going to be most of them with how this MMR system works though.
Almost any time I log in to play DBD there is a 100% killer bonus in my region. Something like 95% of the players in my games are efficient when I play my highest ranked killer. Don't be telling me how my games play out when you're not in them.
Simply put DBD is not a fair game when one side plays efficiently. For survivor this is gen rushing and for killer it's tunneling.
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@Ithiria said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3320296#Comment_3320296
Disarming traps isn't free, it requires you to be there and invest time into it.
Trapper doesn't really win by having conveniently disarm-able traps anyhow, you generally win by creating a web, hooking someone in it, and then goad survivors into making mistakes that coalesces into more of them having to come save, making their own mistakes, and all dying from it.
Bloody coil just makes this strategy..... super ######### up. If they did make it baseline I guarantee it would get reverted or he'd receive a nerf.
Also why is doctor all the ways down there? His anti-loop power is certainly pretty usable and has a bunch of benefits and cool perk synergies, along with a nice selection of addons.
And I mean, I already said what I think would help which is overall nerfing several maps to make killers without strong chase powers more viable. Nurse and Blight are so special because they don't care much that you got a Shack -> Long Wall Jungle Gym -> Cowtree chain. Once anti-loop is not so necessary things will be much nicer.
-"Disarming traps isn't free, it requires you to be there and invest time into it."
You say that it would be OP if trapper had Bloody Coil base kit. Why do you say that? Is it because it would make disarming traps always have a penalty? That would be an example of disarming traps not being free.
The killer plays vs four people and it is too easy for one person to nearly completely remove the Trapper's power. Hag and Trapper become an absolute joke if one player just spends the entire game ruining their traps.
Bloody coil would only become oppressive if it gave a deep wound if already injured. Given the state of trapper compared to say Blight with no addons- I would say give Trapper deep wounds with bloody coil if someone disarms a trap while hurt.
-"Also why is doctor all the ways down there?"
The doctor's main power is detection. He has no movement power and his antiloop is in the "weak" category. You can watch streamers like Otz play Doctor and when they make no mistakes it takes 6 shocks to get a hit. Also Doctor can get completely fouled up by server latency; he shocks someone and they still vaulted because the killer isn't host anymore.
Doctor can't use STBFL and has no real instant down option.
Doctor is required to use the discipline addon or he sucks.
Doctor' s power can inflict very mild slowdown that usually has very little impact. Compare that to say PH who has much stronger antiloop and his power can skip the hooking animation and ignore anti tunnel perks.
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@Raptorrotas said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3320297#Comment_3320297
Well thats concerning.
I dont know anything about nemesis nor am I interested in learning about his curret addons. The whole "needs 3 hits" and the "weak-to-barely good" progression of his whip put me off somehow.
But thasts why I'm in support of removing statboost-addons and adding most of these lost stats to the basekit. If there arent statnboosting addons which dominate the usefullness of addons, the othet types of addons may shine. Im thinking special effects ( wraith aura reading while invisible) or minor mosifications should be the kinda of effect for the addon slots.
Transformative addons like Tombstone or mirror myers, or even nurses new "warp back to start" should be alternative abilities to swap in the ability/item slot.
Nemesis would be a massively better killer if (pick one):
1) HIs whip was always "T3" length and the buildup mechanic were removed and could always break pallets. Infection no longer gives a speed boost.
2) At T3 his whip damaged and infected in the same hit.
For either option zombie attacks should give him mutation as if he whipped the survivor.
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@Ithiria said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3320304#Comment_3320304
The stronger killers do not require slowdown perks to do well with. It's mostly just the weak ones who have to patch together their lack of chase power/map pressure who need them if they aren't willing to win through tunneling.
I straight up bring memey builds all the time as killer because good builds just aren't necessary to win the overwhelming majority of games.
Yeah, survivor perks aren't as impactful, but you'd expect that to be the case when they have 16 perks between them.
-"The stronger killers do not require slowdown perks to do well"
All the big name streamers I watch would largely seem to prove otherwise. When against efficient survivors you need strong perks.
Blight and Nurse are the best killers. There's no way you are going to tell me the best killers do better with meme perks vs strong perks.