DBDVulture
DBDVulture
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@Kaffry said:
I use to use the perk in every build. I only used it to gain knowledge of the tiles and now that I know them, it’s just a matter of if my team had already used that pallet. Which brings up another thing. Analyze tiles before you connect them, not last second while the killer is on your tail.
I haven’t returned back to the perk because once you convince yourself you don’t need it, trust me, you don’t.
-"I haven’t returned back to the perk because once you convince yourself you don’t need it, trust me, you don’t."
A number of people will say things like : this is a training wheels perk.
You know what perks people said the same things about? Spine Chill and Iron will. They were OP when combined with resiliance+ an exhaustion perk.
Windows is giving a similar advantage "at no cost" that lasts the whole game. It just seems a little too much for all the same reasons that SC and IW got nerfed.
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@TheSubstitute said:
Eruption has two major issues in my opinion:
(a) It removes a player's ability to play for a significant amount of time. That is not healthy game design
(b) It disproportionately affects one group more than the other (solos vs swf). That makes it frustrating for the group that's affected worse and makes it harder to determine if balancing is required.
Reworking it into a blocked gen effect instead of giving the incapacitated status would still leave the perk strong, not have players standing around for extended periods of time, and smooth out how it affects people allowing for better data. That sounds good to me.
In regards to the what about DH argument , well, first it is possible for there to be more than one unconnected issue in the game and, two, I don't think DH is broken. Honestly, I think it's okay albeit it can feel frustrating to face.
If a Killer approaches a survivor with SB, BL, and Lithe the extra distance can prevent a hit. That's less frustrating for the Killer because the Killer wasn't close and now has to spend extra time finding another survivor. The survivor with DH just switches when that happens to mid-chase. That feels more frustrating because the Killer feels like they won the chase and got robbed but they hadn't won the chase yet.
The real test as to whether or not DH is still out of balance is if DH users escape significantly more than SB users. They might, they might not, but right now the only people who know aren't telling.
The real difference between the two is that although we don't know if DH is that much better than it's closest equivalent, SB, it seems pretty apparent Eruption is much better against solos than swf and is much more effective than the other gen defense perks. That calls for a rework to make it healthier.
-(a) It removes a player's ability to play for a significant amount of time. That is not healthy game design
-(b) It disproportionately affects one group more than the other (solos vs swf). That makes it frustrating for the group that's affected worse and makes it harder to determine if balancing is required.
-Reworking it into a blocked gen effect instead of giving the incapacitated status would still leave the perk strong
There's a very simple fix for eruption.
- Increase reset timer to 45 seconds
- Remove incapacitated status.
- When the perk triggers make the generator(s) not be able to be interacted with for 45 seconds
- Now using Eruption will trigger a soft "reset" on that generator
- It affects solo and SWF equally.
Blocking gens is counterproductive to generator regression. Eruption is a regression perk not a blocking perk. We need a new "status" type for generators where they cannot be interrupted. Just as an example we could call the new generator status : overloaded.
On this note I would suggest kicking a generator with Overcharge should apply this new effect that prevents a generator from being interrupted for 20 seconds.
Instead of removing the player's ability to act you give them a choice knowing they can't do the generator that they want to do.
(BHVR you can hire me at any time to fix all the little problems in your game).
@WesCravenFan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3329072#Comment_3329072
Because it is still a third health state. That did not go away because they took the dash away. It was a third health state before, and it is a third health state now.
"The problem with dead Hard is that it gives you a third health state. "
So why doesn't the mend from DH actually take 45 seconds like an "Actual" full heal from self care? Since Dead Hard is giving you a third health state you should need to mend as if you were healing a third health state - not a mend. Note : Legion hitting you with his power would still be a 15 second mend but if you DH a legion swing then you would have to heal the DH deep wound for 45 seconds.
We could just change dead hard with the following text: Using Dead hard makes you take 100% longer for ALL heal actions performed on you.
This is more simple and would make DH "save" less time as you lose time healing repeatedly. Now you are unlikely to heal and just play the game hurt.
This would give you a third health state AND make you pay for that extra health state by requiring more time investment.
@Entitled_survivor said:
DH was already massively nerfed
DH before was not able to be countered when you used it to make distance to a pallet/window. When It got changed it did NOT get nerfed. DH is still being used by the most skillful players to make chases last much longer.
There is no "penalty" for having a third health state. That part needs to change.
If healing took 100% longer with DH then people would use Adrenaline/Resilience and play the game hurt. They would have 2 health stats without healing. It would kill the "third health state".
Have you noticed by the way that nobody is using Borrowed Time anymore? Survivors just have 5 perks now.
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P100 on killer is the smartest move. Nobody can dodge because they don't get to see your prestige until after the game.
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@Little_Kitten said:
The rate of use of a perk is not necessarily related to its dangerousness.
Not all survivors who use this perk are experts.
And as a corollary, the best survivors in the game do not necessarily use this perk.
I don't see how it is a problem.
-"The rate of use of a perk is not necessarily related to its dangerousness."
Almost every killer perk that has been used "too much" has been nerfed because it was picked too often and lead to more wins.
Did you play before exhaustion? Just imagine what would happen if it were removed. You would see people using sprint burst, overcome and dedhard.
Old NOED that was not a totem, gave 9% haste and could never be removed had a massive pick rate because there was no reason NOT to take it. Should we restore that perk because its pick rate was not dangerous?
@Iron_Cutlass said:
Windows of Opportunity only really exists to aid players in chase, but I kind of see it as a fine perk, especially for SoloQ. In SWF, I can at least make the argument that they can call out what pallets they used so hypothetically they dont need it, but SoloQ you can run yourself in a complete deadzone without realizing it because you lack the information from being, well, SoloQ.
My only issue with the perk is that it is used by some players to run from pallet to pallet and instantly drop them without thinking, but that is a symptom of bad map design and less of the perk itself being an issue.
-"My only issue with the perk is that it is used by some players to run from pallet to pallet and instantly drop them without thinking"
Last night I played a game on crow map vs at least 2 people from comp teams in a swf (on their profiles). One player was on death hook and used up 80% of the pallets in that chase. That's just not fair.
Maybe we need to add "pallet exhaustion" where you can throw 2 pallets instantly and then you have a 1 second delay to throw them because you are tired. We could do the same for window vaults in a chase. After 4 quick vaults all vaults are medium vaults.
But instead of nerfing the entire system we just nerf a survivor perk with a bloody 30% pick rate.
-"Windows of Opportunity only really exists to aid players in chase"
Do you know why Iron Will had at least a 20% pick rate before the 6.0 patch? It had no exhaustion component. It made you silent in loops and that was deemed "unfair" to use with an exhaustion perk. Now you must choose DH or IW. Everyone abandoned IW expect the pure stealth players (even though stealth is basically totally dead).
Pre patch Iron will made looping easier and could be used without cooldown. WoO does the same thing and for the same reason it should probably have an exhaustion cooldown.
@HugTechLover said:
Dude, you ask for some strange nerfs on here. Lol
WoO is nowhere overpowered. Trying to loop without it, being brand new, is nigh impossible.
I can loop without fine, but it helps see what RNG we got, and what dead zones my teammates created. That is nothing super oppressive or deserving of a nerf.
-"Trying to loop without it, being brand new, is nigh impossible."
This might blow your mind but DBD is balanced around the killer hitting you once every 30 seconds or so in a chase. The goal is to loop the killer way longer than that to waste time . And when that happens it completely breaks the game.
@Karmiana said:
I am not sure why WoO should be nerfed. The game is full of veteran players who have thousands of hours and thus do not use WoO. As i am myself 1) new player 2) casual player WoO is essential for me as it helps me with navigation of the map and loops so that i dont go down withing seconds (although i still do go down quickly). WoO is part of my build because i am not planning to play this game as a tournament or as a job,this game for me is just that a 'game',so WoO is my saving grace in soloq matches. Also,you need to remember WoO takes 1perk slot, pallets are limited,so at end game the WoO becomes useless and a waste of a slot.So as a killer you should be happy otherwise i could run one of other meta perks instead of WoO but i choose WoO.
Also if loops are a problem i.e. survivors knowing they running to pallet.As a killer you have Zanchin Tactics which shows you windows,pallets and doors. So you can use to counter WoO.
I am not a new player. I know where about 90% of the pallets spawn because people lead me to the pallets every game.
-"As a killer you have Zanchin Tactics"
This perk even though it has the same functionality as its counterpart is 99% useless as there is only one killer that it makes sense to bring - Otz even made a video on it. My opinion is that ZT is a waste of a perk slot. I control windows more than I control pallets because windows can be used forever and pallets are finite. My favorite killers can hit over a pallet anyway.
The mere fact that you are suggesting I use ZT is about as offensive to me as if I suggested to you that you use Deja Vu.
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I upvoted that post because it explains what I saw in my game.
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This explains my thread :
@Bwsted said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3328216#Comment_3328216
Did you check if they had MoM?
I played games where nobody had Metal of Man and they were getting an extra exhaustion effect with dead hard while in deep wounds. Recommend using kill switch immediately as survivors can have 3 health states coming off the hook.
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@Bwsted said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3329108#Comment_3329108
Then it was either a bug, or more likely a hack.
For a point of reference the first two games I played had the people using DH in a way I have never seen.
The third game had someone sliding across the floor faster then they could run but ran into a wall at one point so I was able to grab them. I made a video after that chase but I think they turned off the cheats and never turned them back on after that chase.
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@mr_Beast_Artist said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3324785#Comment_3324785
But agree that the "overcoming" perk needs a buff
Overcome is fine - I use it all the time. It makes you vulnerable to tunneling because you have to heal. Also you have to "waste time" healing to use it.
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@AverageKateMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/362315/why-would-bhvr-do-this
You know it's funny. Killers got a buff to base kit and that was needed but weirdly now that solo survivor actually has information to help them, it's a problem.
The hud helps solo players and SWF. The problem is that SWF needs a nerf (see above: no repeats in a SWF).
Killers got random mediocre base kit buffs and survivors got a free fifth perk slot. Killer regression is still 1/16th of the survivor repair potential.
@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3328905#Comment_3328905
Swfs will never find a game. All because solo queue = easy kills. Dog forbid you have a challenge and lose once in awhile.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3328590#Comment_3328590
Your balancing solution is to buff weaker killers to be able to compete more effectively against swf? How is that balanced for solo queue? Solo queue makes up the vast majority of the kill rates (hence why killer mains like yourself are upset they got a buff, you know solo is easy pickings) so they already get dominated plenty by weaker killers. Making weaker killers stronger will only make the game more difficult for solo players. How is that balance? The actual solution is exactly what BHVR are doing - buff solo to bridge the gap between solo and swf, and *then* make killer changes. That way solo still have a fighting chance once killers are buffed.
As a quick band aid they could just keep blight/nurse at 4 perk slots and give the others 6-8 depending on how weak they are.
Another fix for SWF/solo balance would be to give all solo players +4 perks that are chosen before going into a lobby. If the game has SWF then your 4 extra perks activate. Killers can pick any 4 perks and survivors can only take "iformation and aura reading" perks.
The SWF problem is that you get harder matches and less XP for going against a SWF. They essentially have extra perks due to voice coms. Give the solo players something to equalize the advantage.
Also it would be hilarious to play killer with 8 perks. I would choose to play against SWF teams to be able to bring 8 perks. That is the kind of thing the game needs. Killers should prefer to play against SWF games because they get an advantage to level the playing field.
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@coldestwinter123 said:
SoloQ= bad players + more information = better players? Bad players use information well.
Killers complain about SWF's, so we buff survivors so they can play more like SWF's .
SWF's still see aura still gets more information, somehow can't utilize it aswell and it doesn't affect them either Or even disproportionately since obviously they are SWAT team in the comms.
a magical buff is coming for killers COPIUM, and they will somehow get compensated. They promised it with this HUD right? they explicitly said "this is power for survivors not soloq players so we will give power to killers"
everything honestly seems super reasonable. I love that its really annoying to like visually and thematically killers like myers and ghostface and Pig. I deserve to get railed for buying and enjoying those killers. I deserve to lose every game if i don't play nurse/blight its honestly my choice and i should get punished for it . My favorite memories is when i get a turbo swf against me thanks dbd i will enjoy when the overall game level is higher because high level games is whats fun in dbd.
i will say tho, i dont blame the devs. Since almost the entire landscape of gaming uses HUD's and ping systems to help players communicate non verbally better. The only reason i dislike this change is because of the reasoning. If the reasoning is we need soloQ players stronger, then make a change that affects them only. This legit just raises every type of survivor player, and arguably a better player uses information better. and this change will just help average and bad SWF's to elevate their level.
-"If the reasoning is we need soloQ players stronger, then make a change that affects them only"
It would make so much more sense to just nerf SWF. Add the rule : no repeats of characters/perks/items/offering. Lock out all changes except costumes while in queue.
That makes 2 man teams nearly the same and weakens 3/4 man groups. The no repeat part helps prevent bullying.
@coldestwinter123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3328772#Comment_3328772
You make it sound like the devs are only bridging the gap between solo and SWF and stopping there. What Peanits said about bridging the gap is "it gives us a much tighter range to balance around," which means the balance part comes after bridging the gap; bridging the gap is not itself the balance.Just as a quick exmaple. Myers Ghostface, trapper,Clown, all of these killers were Destroying the solo players and the reason they recieved no changes is because they would destroy the soloQ experience? Is the track record of these killers fairly grim in the games lifespan? They don't receive significant buffs because the gap between soloq and swf is too large? Massive cap. Not to mention you could have used a chat wheel for people to use to pre determined lines that you can signal to your teammates. That would ONLY improve the experience of SoloQ players and not players across the board. Even their implementation is questionable and arguable.(if i was a survivor i would prefer a HUD display over chathweel for convenience. But in terms of strict balancing a chat wheel is more healthy)
Killers can't be balanced around two different strengths of opponents.just to not be cantankerous and argue for sake of arguing i can grant this, even tho this is not as set in stone as you representing it to be.
Solo survivors and SWF will always be two different strengths, but the gap has historically been so large between the two that it's been impossible to properly balance killers.Cap. The gap between swf and soloq play has nothing to do with how killers have been handled to this day. This statement is a non squitter. The gap historically has been large therfor impossible to properly balance killers? Killers have both been too strong or too weak regardless of the state of soloQ vs SWF. There is no changes that have been made to killers to Strictly make them stronger against SWF and weaker against soloq players. Changes made to killers largely affect both soloq and swf players equally.
The smaller the gap between solo and SWF, the better the game can be balanced.true.
If you want killers to be able to be made stronger, first they need a more stable strength of opponent to be balanced against.As an entire thing i would agree. but you can breach that gap with out buffing Swf's and strong players already.
i re-wrote several times and deleted harry potter book levels of text to trim down the criticism to not be as adversarial as i want to be. But do you not really acknowledge that there is a slew of killers that are just straight up bad against SWF's and soloQ? How have these killers limped through the existence of this game and have not gotten the appropriate changes?
Is there really no acknowledgement of the problem that this DOESN'T JUST HELP SOLOQ PLAYERS BUT SURVIVORS IN GENERAL?
is powercreep not a real concern in anyones eyes? (trapper legit on his design can't compete and requires a full rework just to get him in a decent state)
the OP that you criticize i dont even fully agree with him, but your way of criticizing him is loaded and one sided framed. first they "need a more stable strength of opponent to be balanced against." really? why not start at the killer why start from the survivors? maybe balance the killers first and then go with survivors. this is what im talking about . You favor survivors sooo hard and load and frame sentences from strictly survivors perspective and favor. That it just really sounds like biased non sense.
The hud is here to stay, and i dont think they should remove it or try to screw with it. It did make the soloQ player stronger, it also made every other survivor stronger. It didn't make bad players better, it made good players even stronger. I personally think there are bunch of killers that need nerfs, but there are a bunch of bottom of the barrel killers that really deserves love that they haven't gotten for years. The gap indeed needs to be shrunk, but this was a bad way to do it .
-"Myers Ghostface, trapper,Clown, all of these killers were Destroying the solo players and the reason they recieved no changes is because they would destroy the soloQ experience?"
Are you trying to say that Trapper was ruining the game for solo players more than Blight/Nurse? I think not.
Stealth killers were 100% ruined when a SWF member calls out the killer's location the entire game. The info the hud gives survivors is going to make everyone be more efficient so killers will respond by only playing the "better" killers.
@TragicSolitude said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3328865#Comment_3328865
Not to mention you could have used a chat wheel for people to use to pre determined lines that you can signal to your teammates.
I think the devs addressed this: a chat wheel was considered, but having to localize the text for every language is a lot more work than using universal icons in the HUD.
There is no changes that have been made to killers to Strictly make them stronger against SWF and weaker against soloq players.
I can't think of any changes that could be made to make a killer stronger against SWF but weaker against solo queue. However, the devs have talked about how they make design decisions that try to keep killers from being a lot stronger against solo than SWF, like giving killers map-wide audio queues so SWF don't have information about what the killer's doing (like telling each other over comms "Hey, I just saw the killer teleport, watch out!") that solo players don't.
Changes made to killers largely affect both soloq and swf players equally.
Because the big things SWF players have that solo players don't is access to information and the ability to coordinate. There's only so much info the devs can give survivors about the killer's actions and keep the game interesting. It's difficult to change a killer and have it not affect both solo and SWF equally, which is why solo and SWF survivors need to be closer to equal themselves.
why not start at the killer why start from the survivors?
Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't understand why the devs would choose to do that, balance one side against two different groups at the same time. It seems easier to balance the two groups so it's more like one group, and then balance killers against that.
You favor survivors sooo hard and load and frame sentences from strictly survivors perspective and favor. That it just really sounds like biased non sense.
Not really. All I really said is that there are three groups: killers, solo survivors, and SWF. It's killers vs solo and SWF. Between each other, solo and SWF are not balanced. Trying to balance one thing against a group of things that are themselves imbalanced is an illogical way to go about updating a game. Bringing solo queue up while minimizing the effect on SWF before doing large updates to strengthen killers is a logical way to prioritize the order in which things are changed to minimize frustration and waste.
There are currently 30 killers in DbD, each with their own unique power, some of them with different walking speeds. If I'm correct, there are 106 different killer perks. As far as I can tell, what you and OP are suggesting is that you'd prefer the devs to look at 30 different killers and 106 different perks and balance those against 2 different groups of players, solo and SWF, instead of bridging the gap between solo and SWF so that the 30 killers and 106 perks only have to be balanced against survivors as one group.
-"There are currently 30 killers in DbD"
And of those 30 killers there are 2 that are viable against SWF on all maps. The rest might as well not exist if you only play efficient teams.
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@Bwsted said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3328216#Comment_3328216
Did you check if they had MoM?
Neither was using MoM.
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@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3328216#Comment_3328216
Do you have video on this? As I've not seen this happen at all, and my own tests show that DH doesn't absorb the hit.
See above statement : I only record games vs suspected cheater (vac bans on record/low hours playing against me) or someone I have visibly ovserved cheating
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@StarLost said:
Eh...
The game you are looking for is Texas Chainsaw Massacre. It will be 4 survivors vs 3 killers. Both sides will be using voice coms so that won't be a balance concern. It is also being made by the people who made F13 (this time without all the pesky lawsuits).
Evil. Dead.
Dammit but that game needs to come to Steam, because it's the first APvP game I've played in ages that felt like a step forward innovation wise.
The killer incentive in my region has already been sitting at 100% for almost 24/7 for weeks - with the exception of mornings when survivors try their hand at killer when their SWF is offline.
Something like 1/10 players really enjoys playing killer enough to repeatedly play it AND be good at it. People need to remember that before the 6.0 patch it was a regular thing to have ~45 killers in the queue with 5000 survivors. We know this because people were collecting data and pinging the DBD servers.
I think a big part of this is how bizarrely awful survivor players can be to killer players in either victory or defeat.
Why?
Emanuel Goldstein comes to mind...and is also a reference literally nobody is going to get XD.
Sorry but that's just False. Pop was by far the strongest and most used killer perk and it was obliterated. Why? Because only Premium killer perks (like Eruption) will be good from now on. Did you notice that more than one year later 2/3 of Pinhead's perks have not appeared in the shrine? That's because Deadlock is too good to let people use "for free".
Nah.
Ruin was better than Pop for the most part, and I'd say that PR+DMS is still, by a mile, the most effective regression combo in the game today.
Eruption is getting Thana'd soon, looking at the recent dev announcement, so get ready for PR in maybe 50% of games.
The 6.0 patch should have just given killers Save the Best for last base kit since Survivors got free Borrowed time. Alternatively it should have given killers Deadlock base kit. Keep the perk exactly as it is and make it extend the timer by 30 seconds. Add rollback protection so that if two gens are completed the second is "rolled back" and returned to a 99% while blocked. They can rollback hits at pallets so they can rollback synchronized gen completion.
Ehhh...
6.1.0 had some great intentions, but the core problems were:
- The recovery time buff was not applied to killer powers, which left some of the weakest killers in the game (Demo especially) in the dust.
- For some reason, regression was nerfed and gen times were buffed (fair)...but then faster gen perks were buffed out the wazoo and new, even stronger ones were added. So rather than having gens be slower and regression less powerful, regression is mostly less powerful and gens can be substantially faster. That's just...why?
-"Ruin was better than Pop"
Both versions of Ruin that got nerfed were better only vs noobs. The only time Ruin was good was 1) Back when Thrill of the hunt came out (trill got nerfed as a result). 2) When you could use ruin/undying pre nerf OR when you could use Pop WITH ruin.
Old Old Ruin with only great skill checks counting as progress was only valuable because in that time Great checks gave 2.4 seconds each. Currently they give 1.2 seconds each. Four players making 10 great checks each = 48 seconds now and 96 seconds in the past.
-"For some reason, regression was nerfed and gen times were buffed (fair)"
Fair? Not in the slightest. Pop used to give me 6-9 instances of 20 seconds regression per game. That increased the survivor objective by 2-3 minutes. This allowed for the absolute BS state of the game vs 4x DH per game. Instead now gens take +10 seconds which is 50 seconds once per game.
Fair would have been : Killer regression speeds changed to be 1:1 with survivor repair speed based on the number of living survivors. Four alive survivors is 1:1, three is 1:0.75, two is 1:0.5, one is 1:0.25. For ease of clarification current regression is 1:0.25.
In other words : the killer has 1/4th the regression speed of one survivor and there are four survivors.
Now I have to use perks like Overcharge and CoB - both of which do nothing if a survivor goes back to the gen while I chase one away.
Deadlock was not made Base kit to prevent generator tunneling but Borrowed time was made base kit - that's straight up not fair. This one change made killers tunnel harder because too much time gets wasted.
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@Edilibs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3327940#Comment_3327940
Same here...DBD won't be the same for me after this and while I won't be playing FT13th I guess I have to find something to fit the horror experience that I'm looking for.
I will be playing this game way less and it sucks bc as a killer main I also like survivor it's just that if something were on the line I'd play killer but now it's just crap. Just yesterday I went on a 3 or 4 losing streak and that has never happened to me before...
It's happening bc not only am I getting out on bad maps constantly I now have to deal with more coordinated survivors ie players having they're hand held? Why?.Why would they do this? Built in bt wasn't enough? My goodness! Why not just give everyone free Unbreakables while they're at it and free Tenacity...so dumb!
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3328049#Comment_3328049
It's contradictory! Swf is a big problem bc only Nurse and to a degree Blight are the only killers that can handle them but it's still no guarantees...
You really think this is good for the game? Smh
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3328064#Comment_3328064
You fail to realize one very important factor in all this..maps! Killer loses over 80% of the maps but yeah let's balance solo around swf....smh! Like swf isn't a major problem for killers to begin with.
The devs are bad at balancing and they sometimes have terrible ideas period, they're human but at the same time this is rediculous.
The game you are looking for is Texas Chainsaw Massacre. It will be 4 survivors vs 3 killers. Both sides will be using voice coms so that won't be a balance concern. It is also being made by the people who made F13 (this time without all the pesky lawsuits).
@VikingDragonXii said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3328136#Comment_3328136
There is nothing wrong with the UI update. It won't magically make all Survivors Seal Team 6 Killer stompers. I played some of it and it helped out knowing the Killer was chasing someone I could go unhook safely or go a little risky and do that One Man Gen.
You have to live with the fact that not everyone shares your OPINION and will have their own OPINIONS. So please before this gets out of hand (it might be already) don't get so argumentative to folks with a different opinion than you.....it never goes well especially if a Mod has to step in
-"There is nothing wrong with the UI update. It won't magically make all Survivors Seal Team 6 Killer stompers."
The hud change makes good survivors play more efficiently. This is a problem because efficient play already ruins the killer experience and this update made it worse. The hud changes might have been fair if the information was shown to everyone. Why do the survivors get to see hook stages and the killer doesn't? That's not fair. That hud was a lot better balancd when everyone had the same info for both sides.
Fundamentally speaking DBD is only a fair game if one side doesn't know what to do at any given moment. SWF is broken because you can tell each other what the killer is doing and what important tasks are almost finished or need attention. Think about it like this : the killer plays alone and has perfect unity. The survivors are not supposed to share information and as a result they play in limited unity. The second you combine DBD with voice coms you get survivors working in near perfect unison and it destroys any semblance of balance.
In the past two groups of 2 man SWF teams had no idea what the other team was doing. That made it bearable.
@StarLost said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3328028#Comment_3328028
Yeah, no.
On one hand, I disagree with the OP.
On the other hand, it's not a crazy concern. The killer incentive has been at 100%, dawn to dusk, for the past 2 days now. Painting all killer players as hysterical prima donnas is hardly fair.
The killer incentive in my region has already been sitting at 100% for almost 24/7 for weeks - with the exception of mornings when survivors try their hand at killer when their SWF is offline.
Something like 1/10 players really enjoys playing killer enough to repeatedly play it AND be good at it. People need to remember that before the 6.0 patch it was a regular thing to have ~45 killers in the queue with 5000 survivors. We know this because people were collecting data and pinging the DBD servers.
@Phasmamain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3328222#Comment_3328222
The whole meta shake up was a killer buff patch and improved killer rates. Pretty recent all things considered
Sorry but that's just False. Pop was by far the strongest and most used killer perk and it was obliterated. Why? Because only Premium killer perks (like Eruption) will be good from now on. Did you notice that more than one year later 2/3 of Pinhead's perks have not appeared in the shrine? That's because Deadlock is too good to let people use "for free".
The 6.0 patch should have just given killers Save the Best for last base kit since Survivors got free Borrowed time. Alternatively it should have given killers Deadlock base kit. Keep the perk exactly as it is and make it extend the timer by 30 seconds. Add rollback protection so that if two gens are completed the second is "rolled back" and returned to a 99% while blocked. They can rollback hits at pallets so they can rollback synchronized gen completion.
Fundamentally speaking the 6.0 patch made killer better vs solo survivors and weaker vs SWF teams due to instant gen regression perks getting nerfed. Also DH didn't really get nerfed as it is sometimes better and sometimes worse than before. It still has too high usage (and probably needs to double your healing rate as it gives you a 3rd health state).
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3328076#Comment_3328076
Either that or fix the core issue. Killers with low mobility aren't necessarily bad. Just look at Plague and Pyramid Head. The problem is when a killer like Myers or Trapper with low mobility, bad time management and a weak chase power loads in on a large map, they can't end their chases quick enough to make up for that.
-"Killers with low mobility aren't necessarily bad. Just look at Plague and Pyramid Head"
Killers without mobility are bad when you compare them to Nurse and Blight. That really is the problem is that two of the killers actually work and the rest do not. The best plague in the world is hot garbage compared to just an "good" Blight. That's stupid.
Myers and Trapper could rather easily be fixed with very simple tweaks. Make MM start in what we now consider "t2" and remove the "t1" completely. Alternatively make him +5% speed after leaving T1 to compensate for his slow start. Either of these would make him suck a lot less. Change his power to work like Oni so that you fill the bar and then tap it again to trigger instead of the 99% nonsense. Restore the ability to multistalk more than one survivor. This might have been "too oppressive" in 2016 but it would be fine for 2023.
Trapper is an even easier fix:
1) restore old trap "width" from 2016 (the trap hitbox was made way smaller - which can be abused)
2) Have the trapper start with 4 traps in hand and 4 around the map.
3) Change purple trapper sack addon to +2 traps max/+2 traps in hand.
4) Change Bloody Coil to be "default" so that disarming a trap hurts you. Change Calm spirit so that disarming a trap with calm spirit does not hurt you. Rename Bloody coil to Shadow Coil: Bear traps become invisible. Now Trapper can play maps without grass. Allow flashlights to reveal shadow coils in a similar fashion to Hag traps.
5) Watch trapper be a fearsome killer again instead of a laughing stock.
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@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3328030#Comment_3328030
That sounds like it's working as intended, they had Deep Wound, they used DH - you saw the animation, they went down with the hit because they get no Endurance as they were already in Deep Wound?
Deep wounds is supopsed to prevent DH's endurance effect correct? In both instances after the patch players who were in a deep wound state managed to use DH to absorb another hit without going down.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3328032#Comment_3328032
Yeah, just worse. You can turn off Sadako's TVs and destroy Demo's portals. If BHVR were to implement a counter for this as well it would be more or less pointless. So I figure this could cause more issues than it solves.
The "easier" solution is to make all maps 9000m². Wreckers Yard is the largest fair map in DBD.
This would mean however you need to change like half the maps OR make it so non "mobile" killers dont play maps larger than Wreckers Yard unless they use an offering to visit that realm.
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@Edilibs said:
They made it so that solo survivors can be just as coordinated as swf? Why would they do this?
There's no surprise or real life element now because survivor can "always" know what another survivor is doing because of the icons.
Why does the survivor experience need it's hand to be held I don't understand! That's the problem with these new games today they're dumbed down!
Geeze DBD was fine until this happened? It's really too bad the game has gotten like this..
They buffed solo survivors because they lack the stones to do what is necessary: limit SWF in a way that is fair.
All you need to do is make SWF not be allowed to repeat : perks/items/characters/offerings. Lock everything but appearance when they are in queue.
Now SWF has a tradeoff where it does some things better and others worse.
@renvolt said:
It's not even in the same ballpark as being as coordinated as a SWF, it just ever so mildly improves the solo Q survivor experience. Now when a teammate gets hooked you can see "3 gens, ok nobody is going for hook" and go save. If I get left on hook a couple times less I'm happy, and I think they were just going for bridging MAJOR communication gaps like being left on hook, abandoned with noed up, etc
imo callouts are what separate SWFs from solo queues, if solo survivors could ping "killer spotted at shack", "finishing gen then omw hook", "saw a hex in main, taking killer to smokehouse someone go cleanse" then yeah it might be game changing. But seeing Meg with a blank icon for 3 minutes bc she's looking for a totem to bless and you thought she was going for save? Trust me there's still an element of surprise (and disappointment)
What this patch did was make Two man SWF teams even more efficient. That's not really fair to killers (other than Blight/Nurse).
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@BeccaDenson said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3325249#Comment_3325249
Man, this should have been a thing, for real
TCM will definitely be a big draw that DBD does not have because it will be 3 killers vs 4 survivors.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3325453#Comment_3325453
I have thought about a possible teleport for low mobility killers as well but I'm affraid of the ways people would use it. Camping from across the map with MYC is just one of the issues this could cause.
You mean like people already do with killers like Ring/Demo?
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@Mandy said:
Do you have a video showing that Dead Hard worked to take another hit?
I've seen survivors have the animation whilst in Deep Wound but they've been unable to avoid the hit, if the hit connected they have gone down whether they dead harded at the correct time or not.
I only start a recording when I think people are cheating (bans on record) or I see them cheating.
In both games I saw a survivor use DH with Deep wounds and take another hit to go down.
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@Milo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3326691#Comment_3326691
If boil over affected the time that you will wiggle free then yes.
However it just affects the swaying. (and aura reading).
Giving any wiggle% increase out without needing another person would conpletely break the game.
The point I am making is that survivors HATED old IG. It made wiggling pointless and it's not fair to say that the old perk was oppressive and the new BO is't oppressive when it has almost the same values for a reversed stat.
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@FMG15 said:
It's important that BHVR wants to change the maps that are deemed problematic but not like this please. It shrunk in size but I don't really feel like the map has less pallets. They also are now packed together a lot more and the back of the main building is a massive deadzone which can be easily abused with sabo and anti hook perks. It feels even worse with killers like Leatherface because now survivors can jump from pallet to pallet more easily. Not to mention that they seem to place more dead bushes on the map you know those dead bushes with an atrocious hitbox. And they still haven't fixed the middle of the upper floor in the main building where you can't chainsaw sweep through as Bubba without tantruming and other busted hitboxes that make no sense at all. Hopefully BHVR will make a few adjustments over the next few weeks.
If you want maps to be fair to M1 killers then they need to be no larger than 9000m².
In small maps you run into people mid chase and they have to stop working on their generator. This is the essence of what makes 4v1 fair.
When I play a large map I just hook someone at a three gen and tunnel them out because I can't be bothered chasing around an 11,000m² map.
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@Clockwork_Enigma said:
It's not a fun Perk to go against and really just needs to get its values nerfed before it becomes a problem again. What needs to be done is just this:
- Nerf: The wiggle intensity increase is reduced from 60%/70%/80% to 40%/50%/60%.
This just puts it back in line with its 5.7.0 version that everyone still despises, but not as much as its current 6.5.0 version. We need this change before it becomes a big issue again.
The release version of Iron Grasp made it 60% longer for someone to wiggle free. The current version is 12% because survivors hated it so much.
Boil Over should be no stronger than Iron Grasp. It should increase wiggle movements by 12%.
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@drsoontm said:
If the map is smaller, it's already a huge improvement.
It's honestly a small improvement. The sad part is that now this map is probably marked as fixed and won't get looked at for years.
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@Blueberry said:
"but what can you do with that information?"
Literally tons.
It makes you hyper efficient as now you always know exactly what you should be doing. IE hook saving, doing a gen, not worrying about getting jumped ect. This makes your team way more time efficient.
If people don't find this information helps their games much it's a skill issue going on, not a solo queue issue. This is way more than a QoL change, it's a significant buff.
The only way this would not be a buff is if the killer also got to see what all the survivors were doing. TBH I feel like this is too much info for the game.
DBD has always been balanced around players not knowing what to do at any given moment. Everyone just got like 15% more efficient.
The only way I can counter that is to tunnel harder on my strongest killers and play meta gen defense EVERY Single Game.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3325909#Comment_3325909
He played the map many times and explained reasons and conditions. With current meta where killers can postpone the game a lot AND you play pub matches - this map offers nothing but pallets. Meaning once they run out because eruption and call of brine prolonged the game, you have literally nothing to work with but a single LT in one corner. Also people can't really orient on that map so 3gen is very much common on the map.
I suggest you track your overall winrate on the map. You might be surprised what comes out of your own experience (but sure, the map would be very different against comp squads that know everyone will be super efficient on gens so they can predrop only).
And this all ignores nurse on this map. Getting nurse here is almost like a death sentence (if she knows at least a little how to blink). Arguably 2nd best map for her (right after midwitch)
-"once they run out because eruption and call of brine prolonged the game, you have literally nothing to work with but a single LT in one corner."
You say this as if it were something new. I've been doing this for years with Michael (playing the slowdown attrition game). And with Bamboozle he can ruin T/L walls so you cant even use them.
-"I suggest you track your overall winrate on the map."
My win rate on The Game is something like 95% with my best killer - who also ignores the pallet mechanic. So that's not really a fair test. I have a 95% lose rate on Torment Creek. There's nothing really special about the map itself but it's just not possible to defend vs smart players.
The game/Midwich are the only offerings I allow survivors to play against me (sometimes I allow Mcmillan/Wreckers). In the past people would pick Saloon with multiple flashlights and you knew exactly what they were going to do. Being able to pick the map would be "ok" if you lost something in exchange. Being able to tell your SWF you are picking map XYZ is just stupid.
As I have said before map offerings should give the opposing side a choice. Imagine for example if the Survivors use a Crotus Penn offering. The killer could either pick Disturbed Ward or Father Campbell's Chapel. The killer would always pick Father Campbell's Chapel because that is a much more fair map. That would negate the point of the offering for most people : being able to pick a completely one sided map wile bringing the perfect strategy for that map.
If you play Trapper on The Game you're in for a not fun time. There's no way I'm going to sit here and agree with you that the map favors all the killers. It favors the ones that ignore god pallets. Guess what - most maps do.
Nurse is way more fair with the new update. Her crazy stupid addon got nerfed and all the old addons got nerfed. Even "buffing" one addon but making it ultra rare is a pretty significant nerf.
I really don't think we need to be nerfing Nurse and Blight too much unless we are also going to nerf SWF. It would be enough to make it so that there can be no item, prek, character or offering repeats inside a SWF.
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DBD has price structuring of a free to play game but isn't free. If it were free the game would have even more cheaters.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/361937/thompson-house-stairs-need-to-be-wider
I wish that house in general was better designed when it comes to hooks. Like, on one hand there needs to be an upstairs hook because it can become nearly impossible to hook from up there otherwise if basement isn’t there, but on the other hand it’s basically a second basement with only one way to get up.
They could either make another way to reach the top of the house or they could remove the upstairs hook and put it downstairs (but the ceiling might be too low then, I’m not sure). Might have to just place it directly outside the building. But it would need to be reachable from the farthest point upstairs (where the chest spawns next to the window) with Boil Over in mind.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3325725#Comment_3325725
Dead Dawg is killer sided IF the killer knows what walls to break and which ones not to. If they break the wrong ones it becomes survivor sided.
Really though, breakable walls which never benefit the killer to break just shouldn’t exist in the first place, all it does is punish new and inexperienced killers who don’t know not to break them and killers who know what they’re doing just ignore them.
-"If they break the wrong ones it becomes survivor sided."
And that is what my quote out of context was referencing - survivors being able to break killer only breakable walls.
@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3325514#Comment_3325514
"even more survivor sided"....
https://youtu.be/lIzwuFOOYiI?t=602
2nd most killer sided map according to well know killer main that plays all killers...
Otz also claims the Game is killer sided because he won that map with Clown after kicking no pallets. Anyone care to bet 1000$ that you can play a swf of people from my friends list with clown (no pinky) and we all KNOW you are not allowed to break pallets?
Most of the map becomes an infinite loop.
Otz is a great player but sometimes he has some really goofy ideas about balance. As other people have noted : OTZ has much easier players than some of the same streamers in his region who are not fog whisperers.
So maybe he has a skewed perspective because he has easier games (either through luck or a result of rigged match making because he is a fog whisperer).
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@mr_Beast_Artist said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3324784#Comment_3324784
are you talking about "Propnight"? There are some cool ideas like if the survivor jumps on top of the killer then the killer is stunned.
But I want more interactivity and interaction with the environment playing as survivors in DBD. At the moment, you don’t really believe in this world because it’s plasticine, God, we can’t even jump in this game even though it’s already 2023.
I don't think propnight has anything to offer DBD.
An imposter item killer would be hilarious but it wouldn't work because SWF exists.
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@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3325453#Comment_3325453
That's an interesting suggestion. I prefer the teleport gate idea. Locking certain killers out of certain maps isn't ideal, especially when you look at map offerings.
Would need to make aure the teleport gates arent too near a gen to avoid more gen situations. It could make a loud noise prompt so survs know killer is teleporting and have a few seconds windup and cool down.
Could definitely benefit trapper, doctor, artist, deathslinger, bubba, nemi. To name a few. Deliberately leaving huntress out because she can snipe from silly distances.
I would be fine with huntress having no teleport.
And for sure the teleport would have a sound and likely a 45 second cooldown.
Locking people out of maps would not be an issue. The offering would just get tossed out unless the killer used the addon and chose to be sent to that realm. Trapper plays just fine for example on the Ironworks of Misery.
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@Distortion_Enjoyer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3325767#Comment_3325767
this is not true, i played probably 1k hours on controller before switching to m&kb and was able to look behind fine in chase, if you aren't looking behind you in chase then you are not playing the best you could, you probably look like a noob to the killer and get tunneled thinking you are the weak link, i've heard many killer streamers mention players not looking behind them and how easy prey they are and i agree, if i see someone like that, chances are they are new or lost, you just have to suck it up and stop being lazy or hover in low mmr forever
I did the same to be honest - but that was a time when Billy had better steering with the controller than he did with mouse.
Now to be honest we used to change the controller sensitivity back in 2016 by editing files. We asked the devs and they said it was fine.
You can't really do that on console.
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@mr_Beast_Artist said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3325119#Comment_3325119
In this game, level design and work with metrics suffers a lot, almost every staircase has such a problem + there are places where killers do not break doors and dead ends are created where the killer can pinch you (map "saw" of her toilet or near each iron door) (map "dead saloon" on the second floor where the killer will close the window or near the stones in the corner) a map of the school from "silent hill" where there are passages to the second floor at all, but many players did not even see them because they are closed by a door that break the killer.
You need to remove these doors or make a solid wall and not give the illusion that your level design does not suffer, or let the survivors open the doors and close it will be another tool and at least some interaction with the environment. Nothing will change for the killer, he still can breaking doors even though he will have an additional incentive as if there are doors left on the maps it will slow down the chase as the survivor will run through the door and the killer will spend time breaking
Letting survivors break doors would ruin the breakable wall aspect of maps like The Game. Maps like Dead Dawg Saloon would be even more survivor favored because breaking the wrong wall can create a stronger loop for survivors.
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@antag0nisticw0mble said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3325345#Comment_3325345
I think giving everyone an extra 4 slots is a bad idea. But making the auras of all teammates visible when someone is on hook is something that needs to be added for sure. Too many times in solo queue I've seen 2 or even 3 people come for an unhook.
So you want to give survivors another base kit perk. I think they already have plenty. Bring Kindred if you want to see auras.
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@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3325088#Comment_3325088
It's impossible to balance the game that well. Without totally removing killers that are ineffective or OP. In an ideal world evrytjing would be perfectly balanced but asymmetric games the blance is going to be a nightmare. Especially since bhvr needs to release a new killer every 3 months. They can't really do much work on older ones.
I would say that's not true. If there was an exemption that killers without movement powers only played on maps 9200m² or smaller then that would make them a lot more interesting to play.
Or if we added a killer only teleport that might fix certain maps. Imagine for example if the killer could teleport from one end of this map to the other end by moving through some kind of "gate". See the yellow dots? What if every killer lacking serious mobility could use a teleport like this on "large" maps.
If you are familiar with Monster Hunter World you know that the big monsters could take shortcuts the player (who in this case would be survivor) could not.
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@bunnyfengenthusiast said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3324408#Comment_3324408
Doctor and Nurse
Nurse ok, but Doctor? Really?
I meant Blight obviously. Not sure why I said doc.
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@HugTechLover said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3325117#Comment_3325117
Not good ideas all around. Bring solo q up to SWF level, and bring all other killers up to nurse and blight level.
Yes please do explain how we bring solo queue up to SWF levels. SWF gets virtual free information worth 10+ perks because they can talk.
Should solo players get +4 perk slots when they play alone. That would work just fine - remember though the killer always plays alone. I would love to play killer with 8 perk slots.
You just leave Nurse and Blight with 4 perk slots and give everyone else 8 slots.
What a great idea.
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@YOURFRIEND said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3325207#Comment_3325207
Why should wanting to play a video game with your friends be a consequential choice? It's a fundamentally casual game. Your attitude is entirely divorced from reality and predicated on the belief that folks who queue together are constantly sweating. They're not. They're just trying to goof off with their friends most of the time and imposing artificial limitations on them gets in the way of that fun.
Like yeah it's a punishment. If I say hey I'm taking some choices away from you because you have the temerity to queue with other people, how does that not feel like you're being penalized for it? These mental gymnastics are ridiculous.
What is the most simple way to balance DBD?
Remove the gap between SWF and solo play so that we can adress other root issues. What is the most simple way to make SWF worse and solo better? You nerf SWF.
People like you that want to use the "Friend" card to obstruct balance are the reason we can't have nice things.
You're also part of the reason why people only play Blight and Nurse at high MMR and then survivors bemoan why nobody ever plays the weak killers anymore.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3325236#Comment_3325236
Ah. I misunderstood you. What I meant is there is always *a generator* at gallows - not necessarily 3gen (but that one is pretty common).
Sure enough, sometimes you have a bit different 3gen like 1 at watertower, 1 at road near water tower and 1 at crossroad. Or 1 of those not being there but building next to shack (away from main) has one or the gen is below it (so less visibility, but same distance) or building at crossroads (same thing). So 5-6 gen spawn points outside of standard 3gen. And also at the other side of road you can get 3 gens (one directly at the road, 1 on a building or just below it and one at next loop). Those are standard 3gens - all of which within about 20m of each other. I have hardly ever seen spawn where no 3gen happens on this map (but technically it's possible and headonfield has higher "chance" to spawn it - even if it's not as bad)
-"there is always *a generator* at gallows"
This is not correct.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3325204#Comment_3325204
I don't think you realize you are contradicting yourself. Are you honestly trying to say it's easier to check most of the generators on Azarov's than it is on Coal Tower? That's not possible.
no I am saying that maps that have wide generator spread are harder to win on as killer. Not necessarily that size equates to difficulty.
You either three gen on this map or the survivors walk all over you
that is sort of what my long post was about. I wish killer was less about 3 gen and more about actively aggressively chasing.
"no I am saying that maps that have wide generator spread are harder to win on as killer."
So then would you agree it takes longer to patrol all five generators on coal tower than it does on Azarov's?
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@BeccaDenson said:
Hey Dead by Daylight players, I'm writing this in the hope of making survivors gameplay a bit challenging and less boring & I hope that Devs are going to read this
Let me talk about survivors objectives, holding/toggle m1 for almost everything except vaulting, you have to hold m1 for mend/healing others and yourself/unhooking/opening the chest/openning vaccine case/cleansing totem/boon totem/curing the infection & etc.
But none of them are as annoying as holding m1 for 90s for each gen, I understand none of us doing 5 gen all alone by ourselves and there are perks and items that helps you to reduce the gen time but that doesn't change the fact that doing gens is boring
Here's my main point of this post
Add some puzzle oriented objectives and reduce the number of gens or the required time to finish repairing a gen
How about a necessary mechanical part for repairing a gen that every survivors NEED to find across the map, there should be one for each survivor? That would also automatically fix gen rushing too as survivors need to explore at the beginning of the game
Please let me know if this is actually a good or way too stupid idea or they shouldn't even think of changing survivors objectives
Thanks for the reading and have an awesome day
We asked for years to have something like a parts system where at least one generator would require you to find parts. It is likely they did not want to get too close to the F13 game that requires gas /keys/batery for the car.
They could have just put in a 2v8 mode.
@DBDVulture said:
This should have been made part of the game.
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@SkeletalElite said:
So everyone has those days where you just get the same killer again and again every once in a while. What if the matchmaker would prioritise putting you with other killers for a few games after getting a killer, that way you are more likely to encounter different killers. This isn't something you control or choose, just after playing against a killer, for the next few games you are less likely to see that killer unless there aren't enough other killer choices available in the matchmaking pool.
-"What if the matchmaker would prioritise putting you with other killers for a few games"
You keep getting the same killers because at least half are not viable.
Let's say there are ~12 viable killers in the game and everything else is in the "suck" category. In order to have a system like this you need to change the difference between the best killer and the worst killer so that there isn't a mountain of difference. The best and worst should be no more than 15% apart.
Blight and Nurse are "op" because they have fast movement, strong antiloop and can always end chases quickly. This artificially creates "4v1" pressure that only a few killers have as part of their kit (Nemesis/PinHead).
Those main three elements represent a "complete" kit. Anything less is garbage by comparison.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3325104#Comment_3325104
exactly. Survivor can't change build to combat it. Killer can come fully prepared and survivors will probably only try in vain to break it. It's usually stalemate or survivors slowly dying.
Also I have NEVER seen no gen on hangman's. And I play the map a lot. This means the chance must be less then 1%.
It can't be 1% as I played that game back to back recently and neither version had it. Sometimes you can only get a 3 gen on DD but most of the time you have a 4 gen on the "3 gen side".
If there are 4 gens on that side the map is ok because you can basically ignore the building.
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Thanatophobia is not a "premium" perk but Eruption is as you have to pay $$$ for it.
That's why the perk is "op".
They lock the good perks out of the shrine for a year so you cant get them unless you pay.
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@YOURFRIEND said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3325117#Comment_3325117
Punishing people because they want to play with their friends will never happen. I don't understand why you keep posting this. It's a non-starter.
You don't understand one of the words you are using. Making SWF have the punishment equal to 4 stacks of Thanatophobia because they are in a SWF (that would also stack with other slowdowns like dying light or thanatophobia) is a punishment.
Tournament play has basically used this same idea for a long time. Why do they do it? Because DBD isn't a fair game otherwise.
Limiting large groups in this way is not punishment- it is a minor limitation. There are still multiple exhaustion perks for everyone to use. Punishment would be to say : your team can only use 2 exhaustion perks. Small 2 man SWF groups which are the majority of players would see almost no impact. Large 3/4 man groups would become weaker and that's exactly the point.
SWF should not be an automatic upgrade. It should be a choice that has a consequence that can be better or worse than solo queue.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3325098#Comment_3325098
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/RK5ISM8UWMMT/image.png
Generator spread is a direct function of map size.
False. A map can be super big such as Azarov resting place(It takes like 30 second to go from one side to another) but have tight gen spread. i.e its very easy to 3 gen.
In general, the more rectangular the map, the bigger map will feel for the killer. The worse the gen spread is likely to be. Just look at old Eyrie crow shape. Its perfect rectangle. that is why the map looks big to you. In new shape, its square, so its more circular hence its smaller, as a result, the gen spread should be tighter. that is common theme with all ultra-survivor favoured maps. they're all all near perfectly shaped rectangles.
Look at Garden of joy, its near perfect rectangle. Disturbed ward. It is decently big square with rectangles sticking out which give it that rectangle big-size feel. Rotten fields, It has shape of rectangle. Look at Fractured cowshed, almost perfect rectangle. Are you starting to see pattern? These are some of the harder maps for killer.
As I said, I think your complaining about gen spread/shape over its size. You want maps to be more mini-squares so that it is easy to 3 gen kinda like Azarov's Resting Place. I think its sort of scapegoat to balancing loops/chase for killer. that is my opinion.
And how long does it take to go from the back side of main to the generator in Shack? It's too far for any killer without mobility to defend. This map is over 11,000m². There is no way for most killers to play a "normal" game on this map.
You picked a map that is either : the killer holds a 3 gen and wins or survivors break the 3 gen and it's an easy escape. This map is broken for the majority of the killer roster because of how poorly that scenario plays out.
My friend calls the reverse of a three gen a "Y gen" (look at the shape and it's obvious). As a killer if the survivors "Y gen" you then you lose unless you've killed two of them.
-"Look at Garden of joy, its near perfect rectangle."
And? The generators are laid out in a "U" pattern. Overall combined with the broken main building and this map is nearly impossible unless the survivors are bad.
-"In general, the more rectangular the map, the bigger map will feel for the killer."
I don't think you realize you are contradicting yourself. Are you honestly trying to say it's easier to check most of the generators on Azarov's than it is on Coal Tower? That's not possible.
Gas Heaven is an unfair map because it requires the killer to go around the outside edges to check generators. Even though it is not quite as big as Azarov's it's actually much harder to win on this map unless you are a mobility killer. The patrol time gets much larger because you must make big right angle moves around the corners on a map that is not small.
One of the big points I am trying to make here is that maps should not be made in such a way that they are only fair for killers with high mobility.
Wreckers Yard is one of the most fair maps in the game. It's small and most of the generators are pretty close together around shack. The time to go around and check every generator is massively shorter than on Gas Heaven. One of the things that makes the map feel fair is because you never feel : I must hold exactly these three gens or I lose (because travel time would be way too long otherwise).
The crow map was broken because it had a 3 gen on one end and nothing else on the map was even remotely close to being defensible due to Shift+W tactics. Everyone knew this so they rushed one of the gens on main and then the killer lost.
I also am of the opinion that if a map forces a killer into three gen tactics to win then that map is also not fun/fair to the killer. Subsequently I do not think survivors enjoy maps when they are played "3 gen style".
This is an example of another map that feels "artificially" big. You either three gen on this map or the survivors walk all over you - unless you are playing a mobility killer.
That's messed up.
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The distance from the stairs and the hook is pretty far. He could have easily punched you twice and then slugged you while the hooked survivor died upstairs.
Thompson House needs a rework to make the map smaller.
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@Gamall said:
No, you can't. Imagine killers could ban going against swfs.
That's not a good idea at all
Instead of trying to ban SWF make it fair.
Add the rule : No character/item/perk/offering repeats in a SWF.
Lock any changes other than costume.
Nerf Blight and Nurse so they aren't stupidly better than all the other killers. Then make the maps fair to all the "bad" killers.
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@Heytherebigguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3324852#Comment_3324852
I don't like TRU3 at all but I do agree he gets better survivors compared to OTZ. I love otz and he's ana amazing guy BUT.. i watch a lot of his games and in almost every game there are some survivors playing like they're total new to this game, it never happens when i play killer...
TT is a killer main at heart and survivor mains therefore don't like him. About one year ago TT said : we should push for hooks not kills. Otz said nah kills are better. Look at the state the game is in where only kills matter and Tunneling the first person is the normal. True was right.
Also isn't it just dumb how terrible some of the people Otz play against compared to True? That seriously makes me think the devs have waved a magic MMR wand to make OTZ have different MMR.
If you make him look good as a fog whisperer then more people are interested in buying the game - which makes the company more money. BHVR can prove this doesnt happen whenever they want by letting players opt in to see MMR after a game's conclusion.
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@Halloulle said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3325012#Comment_3325012
It is tho. It is about picking what you will to go up against based on your own assuption about what you expect to go up against. - And of course playing a certain killer doesn't automatically mean they gonna play in a certain way.... the same holds true for swf tho. And since there are way more constellations of swf (2, 3, 4 persons) vs SoloQ (1 person) it is very much about whitelisting and not blacklisting. Are there more killers? Certainly - the principle is still the same however.
It's absolutely different.
Imagine being able to block one killer. You say - I can't go against Blight. That would be closer in line than blocking SWF.
Being able to block one specific player at a time would just make it so eventually you can only play against the noob killers you didn't block.