Clevite
Clevite
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I say we could slow new ruin down just a touch and make it base kit for all killers. If you get chased off by the killer the entity regresses the gens.
Also why not get rid of the hatch. I think it has overstayed it's necessity. Third survivor dies, exit doors are powered. No more slug for the 4k.
I would also say moris go and I was going to say get rid of toolboxes as well. But if new ruin is base kit maybe just slow them down a bit as well.
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@Dryhigh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1060356#Comment_1060356
Out patrolling I don’t camp, I don’t tunnel. In this instance they consistently made bad plays snowballing me
Yup that's on them. You shouldn't sweat what they say.
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@Dr_doom_j2 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1056400#Comment_1056400
If that's your hang up, I see why you aren't playing killer so much these days. I play surv more and you know what's the best part about being camped/tunneled? After that I can go look for another game, I don't have to suffer through a simple mistake I made costing me the whole games on many maps, and having to seethe through a whole nother 4-8 mins of a losing game.
Just as much as killers aren't entitled to 4 K every game, survs aren't to surv, or even get multiple gens and loops done in a single trial. That's the beauty of having the benefit of getting taken out early for a mistake you or others made. And let's not forget, you have opportunities before you even get hooked to evade and avoid the killer. You aren't always the one getting tunneled/ camped out.
I have said multiple times to play however you want. But let's not pretend tunneling some one off the hook takes skill. It's a low skill tactic that happens a d will cost you the game in most cases.
Just stating you don't have to use these tactics to b be successful.
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@McLightning said:
If you watch some of the biggest streamers and think they are god tier survivors or killers in the last...you need to look closer.
I'll actually go through a few here...
ANGRYPUG - He's mildly above average. He has the most escapes in the game (which is actually true), but he also plays more than anyone else. It's a time based thing. If you watch him play, you'll see his spins are, for the most part, awful, and as a killer his main playstyle is tunnel/insidious camp. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it's not skill based in the least.
Vince - He's an average survivor and a below average killer who has amazing gimmicks and entertainment value (Officer Leathercock, anyone?).
Cahla - She might be the most wholesome DBD streamer you'll see who isn't StreamDad_, and as a killer, she's decent, but she gets tired of killer quick these days and switches to survivor, where she is slightly above average as a survivor.
Tofu - I mean, he can be good. He's like any of us. He has good games, he has bad games. He's unlike most of us in that he doesn't take it personally and throw his PC out the window when he loses. Though, he does seem like a survivor main who plays killer rather than a killer main. He has this "i won't use spirit fury because it's unfair for survivors" attitude. Mostly though, he performs as good if not slightly worse than your average killer. Great guy, though.
The only god tier survivors are really No0b3 and Zubat (and Edgar to an extent - he's an amazing looper. Still a shame what BHVR did to him). God tier killers are Marth, Zubat and...well, really thats it. Hexy is a great killer too but he uses tactics survivors don't approve of.
What I'm getting at here is that DBD isn't a hard game. You can be as good as them with a fraction of the time.
Whhaaatt! Fungoose is one of the best out there. He is an educational streamer, killer main but plays a lot of survivor as well
I would argue one of the most technically skilled and knowledgeable killers in the game. Check him out if you get a chance. Granted he has like 8000 hours in game, so I wouldn't compare him to the average player.
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@immortalls96 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1061114#Comment_1061114
I think we should be looking at why the upper tier killers are so successful and start modeling killers off that..if they expect the killer to constantly keep strain on survivors they need to give the tools to do it
That's a true statement. Gotta be able to pressure map and have something to help in chases. Like freddy,nurse, spirit, and Billy. Totally agree.
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@immortalls96 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1061040#Comment_1061040
The issue is..that when something becomes unusable or too strong and easy..you get those types..and it really sucks when it feels like the dev team turns a blind eye to issues the rest of the community sees way before them..its quite annoying
I am hoping that the ruin nerf is the beginning of balancing the game. I understand that with optimal survivors the gens will be done in a few minutes and hence they will feel way too strong.
But I do think we need the data without ruin to start creating a true balance. I think eliminating toolboxes as well the hatch would be a big step in the right direction.
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@immortalls96 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1060367#Comment_1060367
The issue is it's not like the typical stereotype as its pretty much everywhere..I have met some awesome survivor players but sadly the respectable types are rather sparce
Stereotypes don't have to be negative, rather they are just qualities we assign to a group as a whole while not allowing that each is an individual who have their own traits and behaviors.
It sux that you have such a high occurrence of running into these types of survivors. I have been lucky myself as killer. I rarely get any negative messages. Even on games I got outplayed. Still get the occasional teabag. But it is fun to put them on the hook. But that is all the attention I will give them.
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@ausanimal said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1060437#Comment_1060437
This is where things start to get interesting you say about killers learning to be great killers its up to them but yet devs took ruin and nerfed it stopping new survivors learning how to be good survivors and hit the great skill checks and still need toolboxes. when i play killer i play fair if not to fair but i enjoy the chase more then killing but sometimes i will put on a mori and go on a killing spree am i a bad kill because of that one match.
It's a two way street yes there is just toxic killers and survivors that will play like that every match and not care about the other side, but then you have good players that after so many matches might say screw it and play it to make it unfun for the other side i.e mori, key, perks, items and addons.
Just check some out like i do when i have nothing to do and they are proud they DC not all are big streamers but they are streamers with people watching them just like the one i watch TrUE3 he never DC and will take the loss.
It is good to talk to someone about this stuff and have it be a civilized so thankyou for that.
Thank you as well.
I agree with survivor side as well, needing to get good. Not many of us asked for this ruin nerf and I was just starting to get confident in hitting those greats myself. Looping was a weakness of mine, but I have worked on it and continue to improve. Because I wanted to get better and not be a detriment to my team.
I hope discussions like this will help us all perceive the other sides point of view more and play with less toxicity. I will look at some other streamers as well.
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@gantes said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1060384#Comment_1060384
Playing like that is just like playing immersed 100% of the time. You might cheese a lot of wins here and there but you'll never really get good at the game.
Oh, I see. You are saying playing killer like this is like a survivor playing immersed all the time, correct? I agree. You would be limiting your growth.
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@ausanimal said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1060384#Comment_1060384
That's the job off the killer is to kill be it by hook or a mori after 1 hook not to play by survivors rules that you have to hook each person 3 time's, mori only after 2nd hook, move to other side off map when you hook someone etc.
It might suck to some people how they get killed but in the end its the killers choice how they do it, you can be a top notch killer and still feel like having a game when you mori everyone after first hook. Killers aren't respected now by survivors and the devs so makes no difference if they were they would be the power role they should be and survivors wouldn't spend the whole match BM the killer like they do now.
Streamers just DC as a survivor when things don't go the way they want to not all do but a fair few do, so tell me again where it says as a killer i can't play a match how i want to be it i bring a mori in and mori everyone after the first hook?
Yes, the killer can play how they want. I am not disagreeing with you there. But there are killers that at the end of the game I am like "damn, respect, they were great killers." and there are those that you are like" low skill unfun tactics". Like you said it is up to you how you play, but you will not be viewed as a great killer. If they don't care about learning to be a great killer then that is up to them.
There are a lot of survivors that have respect for the killer. In fact a lot of killer mains have switched and play survivor. I have 7 devotions as a killer on PS4 so I understand the stress and challenge of being a killer. I just prefer to take a loss than resort to tactics that I would find unfun when I play survivor.
I don't know what streamers you watch, so I can' speak to this. I watch mainly Fungoose and I have never seen him DC. Thanks for the discussion.
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@NullEXE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1060384#Comment_1060384
Not everyone here is a streamer, a lot of play just play the game to have fun. If one game wasn't fun for you, cool, get into a new one. Or take a break.
By expecting free win's all the time and not learning to counter these easy to counter strategy's then you are limiting your own growth as a survivor.
The amount of entitled survivors that expect to get 3 free hooks, and 3-4 immunity's from perks and granted a free win for being the last survivor is really the only and biggest problem in dead by daylight right now. If these survivors didn't exist in the first place then many of the Killer's wouldn't even be relying on these ######### tactics.
No, i know not everyone is a streamer. I was just making the point that those that make a living doing it must be entertaining. No one would watch a guy camp and tunnel for six hours.
I agree about limiting your growth as a survivor. I hate to be tunneled. But it has helped me practice my looping and improve exponentially . Different opinions don't mean we can't discuss these things as a community, which is what we are doing.
I personally don't play a lot of meta perks, I'm still using windows of opportunity to continue to work on my looping. IMO, I think they can just get rid of the hatch. I guess they would have to power exit gates when there is one survivor left alive. Maybe just start the end game as soon as entity takes the third survivor. It would eliminate the slug for the 4k.
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@gantes said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1060384#Comment_1060384
Playing like that is just like playing immersed 100% of the time. You might cheese a lot of wins here and there but you'll never really get good at the game.
Playing like what?
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You can open the gates and then hook the downed survivor.
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@NullEXE said:
- Not the killer's job to make sure you have fun.
- Not the killer's job to teach you better perks, how to play the game, or map layouts.
- Not the killer's job to teach you how to counter the killer's they play.
- Not the killer's fault that the other survivors saved you without perks to ensure safe unhooks.
- Not the killer's fault that the other survivors saved you without ensuring the killer was distracted elsewhere.
I can go on, but that looks like a good stopping point.
No one said it was the killer's job to do these things.
However if you just camp, tunnel, mori after 1hook you will never be viewed as a top notch killer. I understand when there are strategic moments in the game where this needs to happen. But if your doing it from 5 gens on, you are limiting your own growth as a killer.
And sure you may get 4ks but you won't be respected. Would you want to show your friends your game and say look at me. Look how I tunneled right there. Oh wait the next 2 minutes is a great video of me just standing by the hook.
There is a reason a lot of streamers don't use these tactics as a primary strategy.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1059643#Comment_1059643
If slugging is a beneficial move on the killer's side when he downs a survivor, he has all the right to do so, and should do so. It's not a scummy playstyle. Especially with the fast gen times at the moment. I guess if the game ever received a second objective, then they would have to nerf slugging big time.
Unless of course you want to get rid of more and more killer players to extend survivor queue times. Then I guess nerfing slugging is the right thing to do at the moment.
Ironically, slugging creates a second objective for survivors I guess.
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@immortalls96 said:
It's because survivors are spoiled children..never forced to get better, always get their say in things..and they're used to this and that breeds the low skilled players to failing to understand how killer functions
These statements just cause toxicity. It already exist on an individual level. It has nothing to do with the side you choose to play. If you are a toxic player, you will do so in the role you play.
These types of stereotypes only cause a bigger divide in the community.
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@Dryhigh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1059643#Comment_1059643
Bull, I’m not letting allowing a survivor to do objectives/be altruistic right in front of me, I will slug if there’s an immediate threat present
Are you just sitting by the hook slugging the unhookers? Or are you talking about patrolling, finding a survivor, downing them, and then just patrolling and finding another one.
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I agree that thrilling should work like pop. There should be no time limit penalty. You are getting punished for doing your job as killer.
Especially since ruin nerf it would be a major slow down tool if survivors chose to abandon gennys when someone was downed.
New post, buff thrilling tremors!
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@irejog said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1056400#Comment_1056400
Tbh, you are just shame-stamping killers who go for the tactically wiser option. Your opinion is only reinforcing the incorrect stance that survivour need more counters to tunnelling. Which they clearly dont thanks to the perks you just listed.
No not shame stamping. I understand that if killers want to go for rank these tactics may indeed be a necessity.
Just saying there is another way to play. That is more fun and fair. And you can maintain purple ranks that way. If I wanted to be concerned with rank again I'm sure I'd have to be more ruthless.
And I have stated before I don't care if you find me 40 seconds later. I don't consider that tunneling. But chasing me right off the hook is low skill and unfun.
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@Steel_Eyed said:
You know its bad when the good streamers are straight up tunneling.
Damn. Are they really? Which ones?
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I hate to be slugged because it is boring. Tunnel me out of the game, at least I get to practice looping and can start a new game.
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@Seanzu said:
I wish people would stop comparing "Gen Rushing" & "Tunneling".
Survivors can't reasonably escape without doing gens, while killers can absolutely win without tunneling off the hook, of course they can play as they want but they're separate issues and not comparable.
This right here
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@NullEXE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1056400#Comment_1056400
I get tunneled off hook all the time, and have no issues. It's just a matter of knowing map layout, and running where it's safe rather than putting yourself out of position. I don't even run DS because by the time the killer does down me off hook, the 60 second cooldown is used up. If I do take DS then I purposly get downed because I use the 60 seconds as a form of immunity rather than "anti-tunneling".
If a Killer tunnels a good survivor, they lose. Plain and simple.
I agree with you here as well. I just hate spending the game in chase because killer is too insecure in his tracking skills to chase someone else.
A tunneling killer should lose if you have good teamates. But there are so many potatoes out there that it makes it even worse when your running them and no gennys get done.
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@NullEXE said:
Tunneling Is: Consistently chasing 1 survivor even against better options.
Tunneling Is Not: Chasing the same survivor off hook because they are the better option to chase.
Sorry no Killer in the world is going to chase the fully healed Survivor darting off into a nearby god loop, while you go hide behind a tree in the middle of no where to self care. The killer's going to get you - the better option, and you need to learn to play better.
Disagree my friend. I do and I don't even slug the injured guy. Just go around and get the unhooker. But I also don't care about rank anymore and have switched to majority of survivor.
I myself despise tunneling off the hook. I think it is as low skill a tactic as a killer can get.
But that said it is part of the game and deserves no punishment. But if you are a tunneling killer you lose your right to complain about ds, gen rush, and looping. You are kinda asking for it. Imo.
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@GHOSTfaceP3 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1055905#Comment_1055905
Well your in the minority if you disagree that gens go to fast and swf is pretty strong even when you pressure gens games can end in 4 minutes idk about you but that’s not fun
No I'm not disagreeing about gens being able to be done really fast. I know this is true against really good players.
But there are still plenty of potatoes as well that make easy 4ks. Sometimes no one is on a gen and all of them go for the hooked 1.
But against optimal opponents it's pretty much gg. I just don't think they are that prevalent
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@GHOSTfaceP3 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1055886#Comment_1055886
It’s a 50/50 survivor is more relaxing and as killer your very stressful
I agree that killer is the more stressful role. But I'd say as killer I win 75 to 80 percent of games with at least 3ks.
It's those rare squads that are tough. Randoms are a cake walk.
That's one of the main reasons i play survivor now. I want to be that good as those i play against.
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@ad19970 said:
Another post regarding Doc?
The fact that his power is good in chases is a good thing. Killers need to be viable in order for enough people to play them. I guess it does take time to get used to how to waste enough time from him while in chase. But he's certainly not op. He is much stronger though, but I for one highly enjoy going against Doctor, and think they did a fantastic job with his rework. He can just end chases fast enough reliably, to keep up with generators. He has counterplay, no matter how safe a loop is. That's exactly what killers need.
To be fair everyone will have certain things that they find to be annoying in this game. No killer will please every player. I for one really don't enjoy going against Hag. But she is definitely not op in my opinion.
Well said!
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@GHOSTfaceP3 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1055878#Comment_1055878
As survivor I win like 70% of my games
How bout as a killer?
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@GHOSTfaceP3 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1055844#Comment_1055844
I play killer and survivor already
Well then you know it goes both ways. Sometimes things go your way and you dominate. Sometimes the other side does. It's the unknown that makes each match exciting in a game that doesn't really change match to match.
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The one with the mori offering!
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@BabyOniMain said:
There's a lot of punishment for camping, They just don't care really. They're in it to ruin someone's day and revel in it.
Also the funny part about punishing a killer who is face camping straight off the bat is that because we gen rushed the game and had no killer interaction we actually Depip. I don't know why escaping isn't an automatic safety pip but whatever I guess.
This too
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Sometimes we are a funny community. I just read a post about how swf are op and impossible to beat.
Now how killers just facecamp and play unfair.
We will see all different tactics and skill levels in this game. I say try to enjoy both sides and play the way you would want the game played.
Unfortunately too often killers are rewarded for camping and tunneling has become the norm I guess. I would say just remember killers, these tactics are the reason 4 man swf get created and commit to getting good.
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Just switch and play some survivor so you can see it from the other side a bit. It may help you as killer or help you realize they are just trying to have fun too.
It sucks when you run into swf that are coordinated and highly skilled. Pretty much gg from there. Almost impossible to beat but I think pretty rare to find.
Just like you want that 4k they want to get everyone out. Remember it's just a game try to have fun with it
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Long time killer main myself. I am now a survivor main for more chill games and I have a lot of fun swfing with family and friends.
It has truly become a party game for us!
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@53nation said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1053684#Comment_1053684
I love your life.
Step 1: Beer/scotch. Step 2: 4 rounds of killer 3. Ugh ok I've had enough. 4. More beer/mj 5. 7 rounds of survivor. 6. Miss embarrassing amount of skill checks. 7. Rest mode
Sounds pretty awesome to me!
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Beers and bourbon my friends! Especially on Friday and Saturday nights. When I start missing skill checks, time to turn on the music and revisit the game the next day!
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Don't let them get to you. They just want to keep you busy chasing them or get you angry so you will make mistakes. It is like with the 4th stack of BBQ. Sometimes you just have to wait it out and play your game and you will get them in the end. If you tunnel them they will win. You give them the attention they want, and if they are good their team mates get the gennys done.
If they make it to the gates. Don't go and see their twerking moves. Just go use your power and get some blood point in the middle of the map. I.E. setting traps or phasing snares, whatever it is.
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Seriously you can play how you want. I despise tunneling and believe it to be pretty low skill tactic.
I don't mean you went back to patrolling and found same guy again. That happens. I mean those killers that float just around the hook and just tunnel unhooked guy right back down. Right through BT and even a DS. Still chasing him.
I don't do it myself. But the strongest members off my swf are survivors I have met playing killer. Mutual respect for each other's skill lead to friendship. Now I swf with some badasses that help me get better at survivor. That wouldn't have happened if I played like a noob.
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When you're a miner
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@ModernFable said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1050335#Comment_1050335
I think he’s saying that he doesn’t want his throat stomped in by survivors when playing killers he’s not familiar with.
That being said, de-ranking is a whole ‘nother thing, and I don’t think anyone here can really decide whether it’s right or wrong.
Thought that was what he meant.
I'm just not a fan of deranking hence my suggestion.
He did ask for our opinion. Perhaps not our judgment of deranking. So I gave it
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I would just play normally and if you derank it will happen organically. If not you will only become a better killer playing a stronger opponent.
The greater the conflict the more glorious the triumph . Thomas Paine
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@johnmwarner said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1050301#Comment_1050301
That part about being scary to survivors, yeah I like that! Even if they escape I want them to think, "dang that was close that Killer is pretty good I wouldn't wanna play him every game." I don't want them thinking I'm a potato they can just abuse.
Agree totally!
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I want to feel competitive.
As a survivor I want to have helped my team get out. I want to have extended chases long enough for the team to get some gennys done. I want to have done some myself. I don't want to be tunneled out of the game because that is not fun for me. Let me have a chance to play. And of course I want to survive.
Although I can have fun as a survivor and not survive if I got the team out and had some good chases.
As killer I want to have hooked a bunch of people and won a lot of mind games. I would need to have killed a couple of survivors or I will feel like I lost. I want to feel as tho I really made the game scary and challenging to the survivors.
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@BloodyNights said:
When looking at these forums...I'd have to agree that killer takes more skill.
But there is more to it I think. When starting out killer is much easier to play. New survivors vs a new killer. It's practically a walking simulator because the survivors don't know how to do any chases. So you walk towards them, hit, walk towards them and hit. Lots of maps and different places to learn how to loop. Knowing when to stealth and when to rush. etc. However there are other people as mentioned to help pick up the slack....or them over. Which could equate to higher rankings.
That being said you could also get lucky and only meet those crappy survivors, or maybe there is only one crappy survivor and the others are good. But if you quickly take out that crappy survivor the other 3 will struggle greatly. There are also different playstyles. You could play the campy tunneling killer and rank up killing teams that just want their friend not to have a bad time. Or you could take the skillful route, and juggle protecting your gens, knowing when and when not to chase survivors. Herd survivors into a bad 3 gen situation. yada yada.
TL;DR I believe Survivors have to git gud much quicker than killers but have a lower skill ceiling. Once a killer starts getting into the purple and red ranks they have to play catch up and git gud themselves. But they have a higher skill ceiling.
That is well put. You are right that the style the killer plays is important when deciding on said skills. And you aren't really pushed as a killer until you get to purple ranks or so.
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@Carlosylu said:
I don't tunnel, I don't camp, no NOED, never used Ruin...
You have no idea how many times I've hooked someone, I turn around to go away and another guy insta unhooks... Yes, I start a chase against the hero, not the unhooked one, but the fact I lost points cause a guy decided not to let me go away and the game thinks I'm camping is dumb AH...
How about you add a points punishment for survivors who insta unhook? NO, cause that'd make end game campers make you lose points when you're trying to save your teammate....
EDIT: Again, no, I'm not in a chase, I hooked someone, literally turned around and a guy insta unhooks... It takes away emblem points cause the game thinks you're camping cause you weren't in a chase and you were close to the hook.
HOW DO YOU THINK THIS CAN BE FIXED?
I looked up emblem. Says takes effect after 10 seconds. So guess you gotta run away quickly. Lol
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@Carlosylu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1049888#Comment_1049888
No, I'm not in a chase, I hooked someone, literally turned around and a guy insta unhooks... It takes away emblem points cause the game thinks you're camping cause you weren't in a chase and you were close to the hook.
I didn't realize you lost points that fast. I thought there was like a 15 second window of something. Damn
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You don't lose points if you are in chase. Im pretty sure anyways.
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Auto Wreckers is my favorite for both sides.
Corn for survivor as well.
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How exactly are they going to determine one's skill level? On console?
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I can understand that. I can play survivor all night and never get as frustrated as in 1 hour of killer. That's about the most I can play killer in one sitting.
I play fair and have fun, but to even give the survivors a game you have to sweat a little. Unless you want to get completely rolled over, in which case I am not having fun.